I completely agree. This is the reason I left the 501st, the "Bad Apples" are allowed to fester and the organization as a whole lets them stay, or turns a blind eye, and I couldn't take it anymore. You are spot on, and I hope we can all think and act like you!
Thanks for posting this. This is exactly what happened to me several years ago. I was so very excited to have finally saved enough to purchase my very first stormtrooper costume... I was over the moon excited. I was invited to an elementary school event where several members of the local 501st also were (I didn't know they were going to be there). The very first thing they said to me...not ever having met me before was "That knee armor on your costume is completely wrong, you'll never make it into our group with that...." Honestly, I was crushed (and a little angry). Right then, I decided I'd never join (even though I now own many costumes that are dead accurate from the movies). Given the whole purpose of spreading joy to kids (my primary reason for wanting to be a part of it in the first place), it really left a bad taste (and memory) in my mind and heart. Honestly, I thought, screw 'em, I'll do my own thing. Anyway, thanks for actually caring.
I can agree to how elitist many of their membership can be. I had a few bad experiences involving some members in the past, when i tried to join. I had a complete TIE pilot impression put together . I won't go into details, but they left a very sour taste in my mouth. I was so angered by them, i literally threw everything i worked on into a burning barrel ,lit it up and haven't gone to a con ever since.
This exactly. We as a group have for decades now been putting our fingers in ours ears and acting like animosity towards our Club comes out of nowhere - when in reality we are generating it ourselves. It takes deliberate effort to keep a good reputation, we can’t just hope it stays good. The first step in fixing perception about us is to actually be better and demand better behavior from our members.
This is the first time ive seen a member of the legion take this mentality publicly since doing so typically opens the speaker up to the bully tactics that come with speaking out on poor behavior in the clubs. It goes further than just the ones who come off as costume snobs though. much further. this issue bleeds into the other clubs as well and the childish behavior is actively enabled by decent members of the legion who "don't want to get involved with the drama" that would ensure from telling their buddy their actions equate to nothing more than petty school yard bullying.
I will say, I was supported in posting this in our member FB page by my Garrison leadership. on IG, the Legion Commanding Officer for the 501st Legion saw it and posted it in the Legion boards. That is a great sign this time.
Well said! And remember, there are many other costuming groups besides the 501st. I myself first joined Troopers For Charity in Denmark and afterwards the 501st legion. Many groups, that are not part of the 501st, have far less strict requirements for their costumes, and people still love them at troops and cons. Remember, no matter what costuming group you are part of, we're all humans underneath the costume.
Hi Colin, What a brilliant video. As a fellow legion member (UK), I think you have covered some really good points here. Sadly, I see too many instances of what I like to call "501st bashing" across various platforms, however, we all know that those bad apples exist. What I like about your video is that you look at educating the bad apples, as well as salvaging a relationship with the "fan" or fellow cosplayer that may have had a less than ideal experience. For me, I think one the main things that stood out to me is when you mentioned unsolicited costume feedback. I see a lot of costumes on Facebook groups and, as an eagle-eyed stormtrooper enthusiast, I cannot help but spot if there are areas that could be improved upon. However, without the OP asking for feedback, I either simply drop a like, or a simple "nice job" or similar encouraging comment on their post. Now, if they ask for feedback, I'm more than happy to assist them, whether they are aiming to join the 501st or not. I hope that people realise that there are members of the 501st, like yourself, that really want to be helpful and respectful. As you said, if someone wants to join, we'll help you... if someone wants some tips on improving their armour, we'll help you... if they just want to come and say "hi", we'll happily chat all things Start Wars with you (once we're not in character). I'm now subscribed to your channel. Keep up the good work, Colin. TK42911, out. :-)
Thanks so much! I love your videos too, super helpful during my ANH Stormtrooper build. I want that sort of costume help to be our reputation, not un-solicited elitism. I know you have a lot of knowledge about the classic Stormtrooper, and i know it’s is hard for me to wait for someone to ask for my opinion, but not everyone is as hyper focussed on the original look as we are. Anyone wanting to be a stormtrooper in whatever foam or cardboard armor already has a lot more in common with us than most. We will be there if they ever are ready to go down that hyper-accurate rabbit hole with us.
@@OddViking absolutely. If they would like to know the ins and outs, we are here. If they are casual about it, that's fine too. We each have our own goals, and that's great. In the end, we all love Star Wars - its energy surrounds us, binds us... :-)
I recently Troooer Ed with my local garrison (and I’ve been blessed to be around a group where I haven’t yet seen any of that kind behavior). We saw a couple of cosplayers walking around as mandalorians and though their armor was made of cardboard, I was super impressed and wanted a photo with them. I’m always impressed at a full recognizable costume no matter what it’s made out of, it’s creative and effort was put in. They would be approved for Mando Mercs but that’s not what they were trying to do, in my eyes they succeeded!
Hi Colin. TK-44140 here. Thank you for producing and publishing this video. I could not agree more. In addition to how we interact with non-legion people, we also need to work on how we interact with our sister clubs and frankly, how we treat each other within the legion. My first Celebration was Orlando in 2017. I was amazed at how snobbish some legion members were to each other. I remember everyone dressed in their garrison racing shirts just walking by each other at the banquet and on the streets. I found it hard to get a waive or a hello as people passed.
As a GCO, thank you for speaking out about this. Its always a good message to be a good ambassador and treat others how you would wish to be treated. We like to say 'be the change you want to see'. Well done and salute!
Thank you posting this! I was approved almost 17 years ago and have had a great experience but know of many who haven't both as potential member/costumers and members who gave up and left. Being positive, supportive and uplifting with those we interact with both non-member fans and fellow members would go a long way! "So say we all!"... (Wait... wrong universe)
Great video -- I left the 501st for other reasons, but definitely something I experienced when we would be out at an event. Heck, our Garrison went down to troop with another Garrison and some of our members were getting flack FROM A FELLOW GARRISON! I've always said the best and worst thing about Star Wars is the fans -- especially when they're self-proclaimed "super fans".
Great Video! There are also people, who are NOT in the legion who have dramatic influence over those people who ARE in the legion because of what they sell to Legion members. They produce very good costumes, props, 3D files, whatever… and they get everyone gassed up over their creation and make folks think “if you’re not like me / using my stuff” you will never be as good / accurate. I see it constantly on these FB Build groups. People who may not know any better don’t go to the Detachment/Garrison leaders, they turn to the FB Build Groups. It fuels the toxic nature of what you’re talking about. Heck, the FB Build Groups were the first thing I found before I found any Garrison or Detachment forums.
The elitism has been a festering problem for a while. It's something we vehemently stand against. It's supposed to be about family, shared passion, and charity. We all want to look our best regardless of skill level or club affiliation. There is no reason to put someone down because they didn't use XYZ vendor or ZYX 3D file. You should be having fun on your journey and bring happiness to those around you.
Some great points here, and I really wish more people would take it more to heart. Locally, the mindset I’ve always taken - regardless of which club I’m representing at that moment - is to lead with complimenting their costume, and then asking if they’ve thought about joining. If they say yes, that leads into my asking if they’d mind giving some basic feedback. If they say no they haven’t thought about joining, or if they say they have but aren’t sure, that goes into more of a discussion on why and how we do what we do. If they do say it’s ok for me to give feedback, I always try and go with both constructive feedback, and the compliment sandwich. It’s never “you did this wrong”, it’s “if you do this, it would take it to the next level”. I’ve also kind of stopped using the whole “the Rebel Legion is the Good Guys/501st is the Bad Guys” line, and shifted to something more along the lines of “the 501st focuses on Imperial-aligned costumes, the Rebel Legion focuses on Republic and Rebellion-aligned costumes”, etc. I find it helps shift the perception away from Good vs Evil and over towards us all being fellow nerds playing Plastic Space People. One other thing I’ll comment on: the advice about dealing with the bad apples and not letting costumers have negative interactions with the clubs also applies to not disparaging the other clubs. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard the phrase “bathrobe Jedi”, or “trash candalorian”, or similar. I know not all chapters get along, but at the same time, be better and be the change that we all want to see happen.
Really great points. I love the "imperial-aligned" stuff to describe them, especially because there are so many edge-cases anyway (like Clone Troopers). I also agree with avoiding disparaging other clubs, that should be part of lifting each other up. Thanks!
I haven't met a anyone in the 501st acting like that yet, I've had great experiences with all the 501st members I've met, I'm joining because of them, I agree with your response.
It's interesting because while I am working on a kit to potentially join my local garrison, and the few interactions I've had with them are positive, I keep seeing negative feedback from fans and from former members who got tired of toxic behavior. This is probably what contributed to my 1.5 year hiatus on my kit, and even now when I attempt to work on it I am hesitant to reach out for any kind of help.
Absolutely reach out, most members are so helpful! Especially on the detachment forums for whatever costume it is, the people on there are checking those to help!
Amen! I had these issues myself before I ever considered joining. I still am joining (ANH Vader hopeful for the Midwest Garrison. Waiting on helmet to arrive and tailored cape to get back). However I experienced this and pointed this same issue out literally you told a 1-1 story of my own accounts. I noticed and I'll just say it how it is snobby, many of the 501rst members are what you'd call mid class or w/e up and same issue as normies, you'll see the downplay just cause theres cost 100000 LOL and printed from the exact molds. It happens in and out of the legion - but it is an overall legion problem. Any ways still cant wait to join and help solve the problem!
This. I just recently became on Official Member with the Mandalorian Mercs. When people attend cons, they are proud of their costumes. And I have to admit that I very often like armour made of EVA a lot. That is is not approvable with the officially recognized costuming clubs for good reasons who cares at this point. I also like crossover designs. And I am always happy to see people in costume. Even if I know not next to nothing about e.g. anime. I can still appreciate if it looks good to me or gets the message accross. Only if visitors walk up to our booth and start to ask whether items are for sale (which they never are), or how you can make things. Or who we are and if they can join. Then it is the time to start explaining things. But never ever say the costume they wear is not good - because people very often put a ton of effort into it. Being mean is not what we represent - be it the 501st, Rebel Legion or Mercs. We want to do good things. And telling people their costume is bad is the exact opposite.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence. I’m 501st and it took some time for approval. I was happy with a Jedi costume I made once and asked someone in that group about it and they made me feel horrible, tearing apart everything I thought looked good. Immediately I associated that behavior with everyone in that group. I later learned that individual was notorious and I think was taken out, even people who did not meet them knew who I was talking about, but that first experience still hurts whenever I look at that club’s banner. A couple instances where people who I’ve talked to who were interested in joining the 501st, I could tell just by looking their Vader would not pass (half bought at a costume shop and half at Hot Topic) so instead of saying it wouldn’t pass I said a couple of things that would need to be altered and they understood. Another wanted to join with ROTJ Luke, who I directed toward the Rebel Legion. Constructive criticism when they ask for advice, but nothing that would make them feel horrible about asking.
When i first approached my local garrison at a convention i got a mixed bag: most of them giving me the cold shoulder. Since they don't like clones that much and i can understand that. So i approached one guy (which has an approved Rots Cody and other clone costumes, he's basically the biggest ''clone guy'' in the garrison) and even as i tried to be really friendly (complimenting his work) he immediatly started pissing on the prequels (with an angry tone), swearing , talking to his phone while i was speaking. Like dude we just met, how rude can you possibly be in just 5 minutes? Mind you that i already had kit and everything to work on, so i was not asking for vendors names or anything. I was just trying to get some advice and to share my passion but he wasn't having any of that. He gave me the silent treatment on all my technical questions and in the end he said: ''It's all wrong.'' and then walked away. For a while i was seriously thinking about not joining the 501st, luckily i've since met many wonderful people in the association an it turns out that guy is the big bad apple, and everyone knows it and stays away for him (too bad is always present and was even the LMO).
Wow, that sounds like a rough interaction. I am sorry you had it, and so glad you found some better clone friends there. Many people would just move on after that, and I am glad you tried again. Next time it might be you the next future Clone Trooper meets at the table!
As with everything, it’s up to us to be the change and call out bullshit when it happens. I’ve started doing it on some of the Vader FB pages I’m on coz I’m sick of fellow members giving unsolicited advice or straight up bashing people
This is a really good video. Like all garrisons we do have our fair share of this and I think you've covered some of the issues that lead to these bad experiences. I know our leadership does listen to the critical comments and we have made some changes to some of the stuff we do that turned out to be not so great. That said we all have our part to play in removing the issues. I do hope some of you watching this who aren't legion and have had some bad experiences maybe give us a 2nd chance. Whilst you might no get on with everyone you meet you will struggle to find a member who's not made some really close friends all over the world through the legion. Also you get to do some cool stuff some times which is really fun.
I had an experience, I'm trying to get into the 501st eventually as a tie pilot. I've read the crl's on what the standard for the costume was and wanted clarification and to know if a pair of boots was acceptable. So before I bought them I asked if the boots were acceptable. The first reply was blunt those aren't this type of boots, there wasn't, as people have said here constructive criticism. As soon as I read the persons response I was thinking I don't need to put up with someone's elitist attitude ( it may not have been intended that way, but it was taken that way). More people responded to my question and they had good advice and even pointed to boots they bought and got approved into the 501st. I appreciated the replies to my question that pointed to alternatives and other places to look for boots. I have since bought boots to start building my costume.
Yeah, text responses can often be construed as more blunt. It is hard to give tone by text, it may have been an innocent misunderstanding. But it also could be just a person who was blunt and not helpful. I am glad others helped.
ive gotten that kind of feedback over the years. Its hard to take but in a way it helps push me to get better at making the said parts more accurate. Gotta make lemon aid out of lemons.
I love that a video like this exists. I am a prospective Vader. I've been steadily working on my costume for almost a year. I started with a Rubies supreme and I have put a lot of work into it. It's not perfect, but it's getting there. And there is this one fucking ROTJ Vader I really wanna call out but I won't who will go into posts and lists out what parts he would not approve out of your costume. He'll discourage anyone in a Rubies, make snide remarks constantly, and is an all around snob. It's infuriating, especially when there's a language barrier or there's casual fans trying to get into the hobby. I wanted to stay away from the 501st because of him. He would pick on everyone. He still does. We dress up as Star Wars characters, it's not that deep. You're not actually Vader. Yes, you've sank a lot of money into this. Big whoop. That's no excuse to constantly shoot down incoming members with questions or parts that don't come from the ultra expensive lists you refuse to stray from.
That sounds miserable, I am sorry you are having to endure that. that is not what this hobby is a lot, and most are not at all like that. I hope you get to wear it soon, Vader is iconic and everyone wants to take pictures with him!
Had this exact experience with a 501st member at my 3 ever con ( 47 yo and just went to first last year ) and my FIRST con in cosplay a month ago wearing my MMCC per app kit, which I was already BEYOND nervous about. I am 98% to being done and I was completely snubbed by a 501st boba, tried speaking with him, he looked me up and down and just turned for the picture my wife was taking. It was completely demoralizing and the months of work I have spent building I just wanted to crawl away. Even my wife and son noticed the interaction from a far. Thank you for addressing this. We all love starwars and just because we are not a cannon char or 100% screen accurate we should not be looked down upon. We are a community and a family regardless of which group we belong to and all should be treated with respect. Again thank you !
I am sorry they snubbed you like that. Hopefully he was just in character, it can be really hard to hear over the fans, and Boba is a man of few words. But it also easily as likely that he was dismissive, and that is not okay. We just had a small con yesterday, and so got it talk to so many costumed fans, many that were cardboard and tape Star Wars characters. We nerded out so hard about our love for the characters, and it was supportive (at least when I was there). We are working on it!
That was some really great advice. That kind of kindess and empathy is what will really make all of this a great experience for fans new and old. Thanks for sharing. New subscriber!
Some people wanna go all the way. Others wanna or financial can not go that screen accurate. At the end of the day if your happy with your cosplay then it’s fine. Don’t give unsolicited advise.
Fantastic video, and good on you for saying this in a public forum! It’s a great call to arms to be extra vigilant in calling out this kind of behavior and also to work on our own soft skills when dealing with the public. Fortunately I’ve never experienced this attitude first hand, but it deeply saddens me whenever I hear about other’s bad experiences with 501st members. I myself have found that I’ve have been conditioned to be hyper critical of my own and other’s costumes just through the nature of hours of staring at reference, but I make sure my opinions are kept to myself unless specifically asked for. After all they’re just opinions! Cheers, TK/CC-44214
Glad this popped into my feed, I would honestly love to join the 501st at some point but cannot get over the bad stories I have heard. I even reached out recently to my nearest division about somehow connecting and participating while I am 17 and cannot officially apply to join but I got sent to the academy and when I applied to that it fell on deaf ears and was ignored and my follow up to guy I knew was in the 501st somewhat nearby (dont know him but knew he was in it, hoping he could at least pass a word on) it also was ignored. Kinda sucks that the 501st was founded in the city I live in but no one really cares about the cosplayers here especially the ones younger than 18. I even have 4 costumes now, two are WIP or budget but my other two could be approved. I just wanted to get involved and plugged in and meet likeminded people but it just sucks when people dont seem to care much
So sorry to hear that! One thing for sure is you will get varying degrees of responses from some people because they are all volunteers. Some are very responsive, and others not. The best option four you situation is to contact them on their social media (might be different/more responsive people running those) or meet them at a convention or other event
Hi Venom- I agree the advice you received from OddViking. Reaching out to the group on social media can be hit or miss as it depends upon who is responsible for answering those messages. (I speak from experience as that has sometimes been my job in the past and I've accidentally missed messages coming in.) We are volunteers with day jobs. OddViking was spot on when he said to find the 501st when they are at an event and chat with the members. It's much easier to have these conversations in-person and make connections with your local garrison. It's also a wonderful opportunity to ask questions about the costumes. A good question to ask is: "How can I build the best possible [name of costume?]" versus "Will I get approved?" We are a costuming club and our passion is building costumes. The joy of being in the 501st is crafting the most screen-accurate costumes possible. I've been in the group for eight years and I always consider it a gift when my fellow members offer up suggestions to improve my existing costumes.
@@surfercouple Thanks for the advice, one of the things I was trying to figure out was when and where are events near me. My closest garrison is the carolina garrison and from social media posts the events are 2-4 hours away from me and I have no way of finding out when and where the next events are
Most any multigenre comic con would be a good place to start. The con promoters will almost always let ppl know if any organizations like that will be there. It's good advertising.
Yes definitely what @oddviking said. While most troops are us putting on a show for the public, so to speak, the local conventions are always an event for us to interact with and mentor potential recruits. You'll also most likely meet the people willing to help. Locate the booth and find the ones engaging with other people and answering questions.
Not only can that color a person's opinion of the entire group, it can also teach THEM to act the same way in the future. I was taught to do constructive criticism by first, pointing out something that works, and then suggest a possible improvement. Of course, only if your input or opinion is requested.
Agreed. Waiting to be asked for an opinion would solve a majority of these issues. The "compliment sandwich" is a great approach, and in general coming from helpful and positive would do a lot for any interactions.
Thank you for the encouraging video. I just had my first troop as a guest (German Garrison) with a non tailor made imperial officer costume. Not knowing how the 501st members would react to this, I was a bit nervous. However, I was greeted in a very friendly manner and it was not an issue that my approval is not complete yet. I have asked many questions about their costumes and also asked for honest feedback on my tunic. In this context however, I was told exactly about this problem, which you draw attention in this video. To the 501st members who put a lot of time, money and enthusiasm into their costumes, I would like to say: most people started out small and are grateful for your appreciation, especially when you can tell that someone has put an effort into their costume. Thank you.
You Sir....are a great leader. This "snobby" or "elitist" attitude is not only a 501st or Rebel Legions phenomenon. The SCA has a similar problem. It happens a great deal - I would be of the same mindset as many of those who "throw in the towel" before they even get a chance to explore - if it were not for the SCA and how it tempered me in that regard. You are 100% correct - it is the responsibility of each member of a group to police their own. Your suggestions are spot on. I applaud your effort and goals. MTFBWY
I could only base this on my experience… total noob at a convention… was welcomed into there area immediately.. like I was already part of the group.. GalaxyCon 2021 … Carolina Garrison Right after that I was 501st approved..
I love this message. I just discovered your channel yesterday, and am very impressed. I feel this message can't be preached enough. I am part of a Mandalorian club (probably not the one your thinking of) and they approached me with this same mentality. We work very closely with our local 501st, which I have to admit, as far as I have heard and have witnessed, they also take on this mentality of encourage all cosplay/costumers no matter their level of expertise or lack there of. I look forward to your future videos.
I've watched and enjoyed your videos over the last year or so entering this space with my own projects, and appreciate you making this video. From my limited experience with past and current members of the 501st and other official groups, it's as you say...there are "some bad apples" and levels of bad apple-ness. :P I've had people tell me the pluses and minuses of the various groups. I guess with anything, involvement can be as superficial or deep as you want it to be. My experience wasn't related to costuming advice. The few bad apples I met were definitely not good representatives of their group (I won't name the group specifically), but like money & power in politics, it makes things complicated when status and receiving certain perks and discounts influences moral compasses and it will always be too tempting for some, unless it's regulated and monitored with an ethics code or something (maybe this exists, I don't know). Of course, the great things are the charity work, community, and the fun & wholesome things I know it is also. I read your description about why you made this video and I know this is an ongoing, complicated issue, so I appreciate you bringing it up for awareness. Personally, even if I am able to make or own kits that are or could be approved by groups, I think I'll be an independent free agent. Hopefully I can still meet cool people & makers, members and non-members alike. Thanks Collin! Keep up the great work!
I almost left the legion because of not just "bad apples" but people who were actively being inappropriate and violating consent towards other members- and the fact that command staff rarely does anything about it. I appreciate and respect that we ourselves can at least foster positivity and avoid negative fan interactions. But what is being done to actually remove those bad apples? To avoid individuals who continue to spoil the bunch and as a result we lose members who care about fans? As far as I can see, staff is complacent in allowing them to remain (if they aren't among their ranks themselves). This must stop and yet every effort to do so leads to people getting kicked out for trying to re-evaluate how our organization runs.
Some of us may not have to knowledge to put these costumes together yes, but that doesn’t mean we should give up. Please be patient with us because some of us are willing to learn.
Excellent! Start out by looking at builds in the Blizzard Force detachment. You can register and view the forums before you are a member, and looking through build threads (and starting one of your own) is a great way to meet some of those who built the same costume. I learned a lot, and met a lot of great people there on my first build.
It's not just personal interactions that are damaging. Seeing Legion members tear apart costumes on social media is beyond irritating. God fucking forbid if somebody just trying to have fun produces a video while wearing a costume that doesn't measure up to Legion standards! The Legion needs to ditch that "PREFERRED " shit as well. I always thought that sounded rather arrogant.
Up and coming legion member here ! SoCal garrison ! Everyone’s been really nice and I’ve been having a great time, I only ran into one guys who was a little elitist but I’m not gonna let it ruin my experience! Still exited to join
Wow... really nice to hear this... I did my first cosplay doing a Boba Fett Costume... I researched in the 501 archieve to make it as best as I can. My experience with a 501 member always was: This has to be like this.... this is not allowed... you have to put this here... and so on... And that said I never had the urge to get into a club which is just regulating my fun... I am doing this as best as I can... but its MY Costume .... MY rules... If somone else has a tip or so and say you could do it better if you maybe do this ... then its mostly appreciated... But most stuff I read from the 501 was always they know everything better and you are a noob... thats how they made me feel... yeah I am a noob maybe but how could you get experienced when you are only beaten down and not helped in a normal kind way ? And that is the point I was never interested to get into a club that is that strict and from the top acting down to people... When a guy from the 501 told me: Hey you have to do this like that... I said ITs MY Costume... MY Rules... ;-) Thanks for calling this out and thanks for your really good understanding of being kind and helping.Thats what I would love to have from 501 members. Great Video !!!
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry you had that kjnd of experience. I hear that costume can be so complex, but worth it when you wear it! everyone loves meeting Boba!
Good stuff. I’m a soon to be 14 year legion vet and am pretty tired of the bad apples and nothing being done about them. Unfortunately due to this behavior being allowed by paper leadership I have reduced the amount of troops I attend. The lesson hear should be whether you have 501 troops or 3 troops under your belt….don’t be an asshole.
Thanks for this video. I’m researching information on the 501, I’d love to to be a part of it. I have several costumes I’ve made and I get asked quite often if I’m a member. I have a lot of little flaws in my stuff but I always get compliments & I’d like to try. Can you update your already existing cosplays or do you need to start over again from the beginning/ scratch? I take lots of photos of my methods and progress, can I use these pictures? Thanks 😊
It is really a fun group, especially from the extra opportunities to wear your costume. You should be able to adapt an existing cosplay, unless every part is somehow not accurate enough. There is no rule about starting from any place, and in fact, a few off-the-rack costumes for things like officers are adapted to work with a few parts swapped.
There are a LOT of bad apples in the club, but they are protected by the rules that say you can't "disparage" fellow club members online aka you can't speak out against problematic members. I literally left the Rebel Legion to be able to speak out against 2 girls who bullied me and made false accusations against me until I was actively suicidal. Nothing ever happened, even when I quit so that I could speak out about it and shared screenshots proving what they were doing. It also allowed a sexual predator to go around harming women (he's a therapist who knew how to manipulate vulnerable women) who were unable to speak out about it. He even became the Base Commanding Officer until he was caught in lies by others and people finally believed what I had been speaking out about for a year. He resigned to keep from getting removed, but if people were able to speak out against those who were doing terrible things, maybe this wouldn't have happened. I have PTSD from this whole experience and can't find joy in Star Wars now.
Oh my, I am so sorry to hear that. What a nightmare. I am glad you were able to get away from that environment. My local groups are a lot more supportive, but it all comes down to people who step up to take on leadership.
What kind of costume are you looking to build? If available, I always prefer vacuum formed kits for things like Stormtroopers and Clone Troopers over 3D printed armor. Many use the Crealty CR-10 for helmets in one print, but I don't have a large printer. I use an Elegoo Saturn Resin Printer for smaller parts. Depending on the costume, there are different makers to recommend.
Is there a StarWars costuming club that has high costuming standards but also allows for more customization for OC characters? If you wanted to make your own, Jedi, or smuggler or the like?
yes, there are other groups that don't replicate specific canon costumes. The Dark Rmpire is one, and some groups focus on costumes of one type or another (Saber Guild for Jedi/Sith, Mandalorian Mercs for Custom Mandalorian costumes). many have guidelines or standards for costumes to be finished to a certain level, but look around and find one that feels like your kind of group!
had a poor experience with the British wing of the 501st, they were incredibly snobbish and were allowed early entry into the convention centre to 'set up' . we had the same quantity of equipment and stuff to set up including 2 life size daleks and a TARDIS. we eventually were let in to set up but the 501st members we tried to talk to then continued to interrupt our photoshoots and cause issues - this was in 2021 - just hope they stopped being like that after that point, it wasn't very pleasant to be around them. i totally agree with you Oddviking, that one does not represent the majority, but this squad were all snobbish towards other cosplayers, and it left quite a foul taste in the mouth so to speak
That sounds like a bad interaction, I am sorry to hear that. The early setup was not because of prop quality, it was likely arranged months before when their group (and many others) were invited to have a fan group booth by that convention. Sometimes you can apply for that access as well, and the benefit is that usually at least a few people get comped or reduced cost convention badges.
@@OddViking yeah we had the same as the 501st but in fair play the con was really badly organized. btw love your vids, I'm not a star wars costume or prop maker but the skills you have shown I've been able to translate into my dr who props etc
I'm apprehensive to join my local ct garrison. The arrogance and arguing about the smaller details are just exhausting to read. I want to make a good ct that I'm happy with, and to have the support of others in the process. When trying to figure out how to make this ct project I'm already struggling with finding methods for some of the smallest things.. so many conflicting information. I truly wish that members were more approachable because it would be nice to find people that used different methods. I've noticed a lot of "this is the right way to make this, no other way can or should work" mentality which really kills the creativity of costume building.
each costume type has a detachment, like the Clone Trooper detachment, and those forums are great places to find a lot of different approaches to a build. hopefully there are some helpful posts for you there. I read a bunch and then went with what worked for me.
A lot of this might be also similar to historical re-enactors and LARPers. I often get the feeling that one group also looks down a bit on the other. Which I also find sad. Why not keep an open mind? As I went through the entire creating and approval process with my canon costume with the Mercs, I got more and more of the feeling that what we do is more "re-enacting Star Wars" then just making a costume (which I had not problem with, as I have a solid modelmaking background). It is difficult to explain, but why not have fun with both. Here in Germany, medieval re-enactors very often smile about people who buy LARP armour off the shelf, not quite fitting and incorrectly put together. But at first glance, it looks cool. If the people wearing it feel good - why not? Nobody is hurt, all is good. Same with the different types of Star Wars costuming. We should not separate from each other, but stick together. After all, we all love the same thing. In our costuming groups, we are happy counting every rivet (this term exists in the German model railway hobby - rivet counters, to achieve utmost precision), but let the others also having fun by playing with toy trains. All of this is good and has its place. And yes, after some time one might lead to the other. Or not. I promise to not write a third essay.
Yes, this attitude occurs whenever there is passion behind accuracy. I was a re-enactor for years too, and it was rampant there. I loved historical accuracy, but I know it was not for everyone. I love the term "rivet counters" which is a perfect term for this. We just need to consciously work to be more inclusive and supportive of people who are nerds about the same things we are!
That was basically my experience with the local legion me and my buddy wanted to join the rebel legion and they turned us away because we had non-screen accurate rebel costumes then rouge 1 came out and suddenly we looked accurate but I will not be returning to the local legion
I may have given up cosplay because of the Legion, but I wanted to do an update because the hell with it if cancel culture will come to cancel cosplay well there’s one more thing cosplayers can try to do before that happens and that is the Legion needs to stop acting like their gods and Kings, which they’re not the Legion is comprised of civilians wearingplastic not armor plastic. The Legion needs to understand not everybody is expert on building these costume so if you want any of them to succeed, you have to help them but if you’re there to sabotage then maybe you’re in the wrong place. I nearly came close to joining after some Legion members made up lies and stories that I inappropriately touch someone which I never did. They said it to only get rid of me because I’m an autistic freak who was apparently going to sabotage the Legion, which I wasn’t. For years, I tried to do charity on my own, but it’s apparently not possible since especially some members will go out of the way to sabotage, which is unbelievable since I’ve known most members who don’t care about charity and help some only care about greed and power. so change your tune or keep up this mess and don’t be surprised If not just the legion but cosplay altogether will be canceled. We have the power to change this not everything has to be shitty. Think about it but if you’re the one who wants to give up fine.
PS to anyone who is offended and is planning to write a hate comment towards me be a little courageous and actually try to face me in person instead of writing a message like a coward that’s one example of a change either face or keep your comments to yourself because I don’t feel threatened by your messages
TX73347 - I joined because i want to bring smiles to Children, I have the blessing to live in a City that we have Children Hospitals. I say Blessing because Im also a Father and bringing joy to my child when we are in a Hospital is everything to me. So I completely agree with you, and i have experience this as well. I try to distance myself from the Legion Politics and focused on the reason I Joined. I try my best to support anyone that is an Sci-fi or Star Wars enthusiast. I love giving Tips and tricks I have learned and try to learn from other in our out of the 501st. I need to do better in as well. Thank you for your TH-cam channel and your support.👍
Mercs have the same issue. I've attempted to get in several times and they've given up because every time they make me feel like because I have to do it cheap that i don't belong (because their definition of budget is still way beyond normal options of budget)
I defended and supported a friend who was being bullied and harassed out of the legion who was dedicated to arranging amazing troops and recruiting new members and guess what, I became their next target... I defended myself for a few rounds but the lynch mob was frothing for my removal do I resigned to their delight. I sold me and my wife’s costumes and moved on with my life. Sad outcome as I had invested thousands of dollars and hours into the hobby.
I´m not a member, but also the 501st members are HUMAN BEINGS. Humans have bad days from time 2 time. Maybe they met someone who was in a bad mood that day. Not every person can keep back if they are angry or sad.
If you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all. Or don’t go to the convention. There is a responsibility as a member of the legion to represent the group as a fun and welcoming costuming community. Just because you’re not employed by the 501st doesn’t mean you don’t have to uphold the good reputation.
I personally can't stand when crls have vague rules that are always exploited, i.e. 'all weathering must be consistent' but someone can just avoid weathering all together. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth when someone can have a kit that looks like it's made of cheap plastic but others get denied because their weathering isn't perfect (and they don't get any advice). I'm sure it sounds silly but I see countless examples each and every day that make me think I should play it safe and be lazy (that's the exact wrong direction any costuming group should steer people into). My point is that it divides the community over something so trivial as weathering and you'd face significant risk if you tried to openly discuss it.
We should all have each other’s back and positivity endorse each other , i never liked how some guys act like gatekeepers to being a “ true “ star wars fan , most people have a level of commitment to their jobs , buisness, family , health and this list can go on forever some people have different goals in life but when we do unite we should just share the love of the franchise not compete for it . May the force b with you all my friends
I completely agree. This is the reason I left the 501st, the "Bad Apples" are allowed to fester and the organization as a whole lets them stay, or turns a blind eye, and I couldn't take it anymore. You are spot on, and I hope we can all think and act like you!
Thanks for posting this. This is exactly what happened to me several years ago. I was so very excited to have finally saved enough to purchase my very first stormtrooper costume... I was over the moon excited. I was invited to an elementary school event where several members of the local 501st also were (I didn't know they were going to be there). The very first thing they said to me...not ever having met me before was "That knee armor on your costume is completely wrong, you'll never make it into our group with that...." Honestly, I was crushed (and a little angry). Right then, I decided I'd never join (even though I now own many costumes that are dead accurate from the movies). Given the whole purpose of spreading joy to kids (my primary reason for wanting to be a part of it in the first place), it really left a bad taste (and memory) in my mind and heart. Honestly, I thought, screw 'em, I'll do my own thing. Anyway, thanks for actually caring.
That sounds like a terrible introduction to the Legion. I am so sorry that happened to you. I am glad you still found more ways to wear your costumes!
I can agree to how elitist many of their membership can be. I had a few bad experiences involving some members in the past, when i tried to join. I had a complete TIE pilot impression put together . I won't go into details, but they left a very sour taste in my mouth. I was so angered by them, i literally threw everything i worked on into a burning barrel ,lit it up and haven't gone to a con ever since.
This exactly. We as a group have for decades now been putting our fingers in ours ears and acting like animosity towards our Club comes out of nowhere - when in reality we are generating it ourselves.
It takes deliberate effort to keep a good reputation, we can’t just hope it stays good. The first step in fixing perception about us is to actually be better and demand better behavior from our members.
This is the first time ive seen a member of the legion take this mentality publicly since doing so typically opens the speaker up to the bully tactics that come with speaking out on poor behavior in the clubs. It goes further than just the ones who come off as costume snobs though. much further. this issue bleeds into the other clubs as well and the childish behavior is actively enabled by decent members of the legion who "don't want to get involved with the drama" that would ensure from telling their buddy their actions equate to nothing more than petty school yard bullying.
I will say, I was supported in posting this in our member FB page by my Garrison leadership. on IG, the Legion Commanding Officer for the 501st Legion saw it and posted it in the Legion boards. That is a great sign this time.
Well said! And remember, there are many other costuming groups besides the 501st. I myself first joined Troopers For Charity in Denmark and afterwards the 501st legion. Many groups, that are not part of the 501st, have far less strict requirements for their costumes, and people still love them at troops and cons.
Remember, no matter what costuming group you are part of, we're all humans underneath the costume.
Thank god my local garrison is super friendly.
Hi Colin,
What a brilliant video. As a fellow legion member (UK), I think you have covered some really good points here. Sadly, I see too many instances of what I like to call "501st bashing" across various platforms, however, we all know that those bad apples exist. What I like about your video is that you look at educating the bad apples, as well as salvaging a relationship with the "fan" or fellow cosplayer that may have had a less than ideal experience.
For me, I think one the main things that stood out to me is when you mentioned unsolicited costume feedback. I see a lot of costumes on Facebook groups and, as an eagle-eyed stormtrooper enthusiast, I cannot help but spot if there are areas that could be improved upon. However, without the OP asking for feedback, I either simply drop a like, or a simple "nice job" or similar encouraging comment on their post. Now, if they ask for feedback, I'm more than happy to assist them, whether they are aiming to join the 501st or not.
I hope that people realise that there are members of the 501st, like yourself, that really want to be helpful and respectful. As you said, if someone wants to join, we'll help you... if someone wants some tips on improving their armour, we'll help you... if they just want to come and say "hi", we'll happily chat all things Start Wars with you (once we're not in character).
I'm now subscribed to your channel. Keep up the good work, Colin.
TK42911, out. :-)
Thanks so much! I love your videos too, super helpful during my ANH Stormtrooper build. I want that sort of costume help to be our reputation, not un-solicited elitism.
I know you have a lot of knowledge about the classic Stormtrooper, and i know it’s is hard for me to wait for someone to ask for my opinion, but not everyone is as hyper focussed on the original look as we are. Anyone wanting to be a stormtrooper in whatever foam or cardboard armor already has a lot more in common with us than most.
We will be there if they ever are ready to go down that hyper-accurate rabbit hole with us.
@@OddViking absolutely. If they would like to know the ins and outs, we are here. If they are casual about it, that's fine too. We each have our own goals, and that's great. In the end, we all love Star Wars - its energy surrounds us, binds us... :-)
I couldn't agree more! I feel like our responsibility as an organization is to support and encourage Star Wars fandom in all its forms.
I recently Troooer Ed with my local garrison (and I’ve been blessed to be around a group where I haven’t yet seen any of that kind behavior).
We saw a couple of cosplayers walking around as mandalorians and though their armor was made of cardboard, I was super impressed and wanted a photo with them. I’m always impressed at a full recognizable costume no matter what it’s made out of, it’s creative and effort was put in. They would be approved for Mando Mercs but that’s not what they were trying to do, in my eyes they succeeded!
Hi Colin. TK-44140 here. Thank you for producing and publishing this video. I could not agree more. In addition to how we interact with non-legion people, we also need to work on how we interact with our sister clubs and frankly, how we treat each other within the legion. My first Celebration was Orlando in 2017. I was amazed at how snobbish some legion members were to each other. I remember everyone dressed in their garrison racing shirts just walking by each other at the banquet and on the streets. I found it hard to get a waive or a hello as people passed.
As a GCO, thank you for speaking out about this. Its always a good message to be a good ambassador and treat others how you would wish to be treated. We like to say 'be the change you want to see'. Well done and salute!
Thank you posting this! I was approved almost 17 years ago and have had a great experience but know of many who haven't both as potential member/costumers and members who gave up and left. Being positive, supportive and uplifting with those we interact with both non-member fans and fellow members would go a long way! "So say we all!"... (Wait... wrong universe)
This is a great message, and wonderful idea if it works, but I will say that those “bad apples” are why I left the legion.
I am really sorry to hear that.
Great video -- I left the 501st for other reasons, but definitely something I experienced when we would be out at an event. Heck, our Garrison went down to troop with another Garrison and some of our members were getting flack FROM A FELLOW GARRISON! I've always said the best and worst thing about Star Wars is the fans -- especially when they're self-proclaimed "super fans".
Great Video! There are also people, who are NOT in the legion who have dramatic influence over those people who ARE in the legion because of what they sell to Legion members. They produce very good costumes, props, 3D files, whatever… and they get everyone gassed up over their creation and make folks think “if you’re not like me / using my stuff” you will never be as good / accurate. I see it constantly on these FB Build groups. People who may not know any better don’t go to the Detachment/Garrison leaders, they turn to the FB Build Groups. It fuels the toxic nature of what you’re talking about. Heck, the FB Build Groups were the first thing I found before I found any Garrison or Detachment forums.
The elitism has been a festering problem for a while. It's something we vehemently stand against. It's supposed to be about family, shared passion, and charity. We all want to look our best regardless of skill level or club affiliation. There is no reason to put someone down because they didn't use XYZ vendor or ZYX 3D file. You should be having fun on your journey and bring happiness to those around you.
Some great points here, and I really wish more people would take it more to heart. Locally, the mindset I’ve always taken - regardless of which club I’m representing at that moment - is to lead with complimenting their costume, and then asking if they’ve thought about joining. If they say yes, that leads into my asking if they’d mind giving some basic feedback. If they say no they haven’t thought about joining, or if they say they have but aren’t sure, that goes into more of a discussion on why and how we do what we do.
If they do say it’s ok for me to give feedback, I always try and go with both constructive feedback, and the compliment sandwich. It’s never “you did this wrong”, it’s “if you do this, it would take it to the next level”.
I’ve also kind of stopped using the whole “the Rebel Legion is the Good Guys/501st is the Bad Guys” line, and shifted to something more along the lines of “the 501st focuses on Imperial-aligned costumes, the Rebel Legion focuses on Republic and Rebellion-aligned costumes”, etc. I find it helps shift the perception away from Good vs Evil and over towards us all being fellow nerds playing Plastic Space People.
One other thing I’ll comment on: the advice about dealing with the bad apples and not letting costumers have negative interactions with the clubs also applies to not disparaging the other clubs. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve heard the phrase “bathrobe Jedi”, or “trash candalorian”, or similar. I know not all chapters get along, but at the same time, be better and be the change that we all want to see happen.
Really great points. I love the "imperial-aligned" stuff to describe them, especially because there are so many edge-cases anyway (like Clone Troopers). I also agree with avoiding disparaging other clubs, that should be part of lifting each other up. Thanks!
I haven't met a anyone in the 501st acting like that yet, I've had great experiences with all the 501st members I've met, I'm joining because of them, I agree with your response.
It's interesting because while I am working on a kit to potentially join my local garrison, and the few interactions I've had with them are positive, I keep seeing negative feedback from fans and from former members who got tired of toxic behavior. This is probably what contributed to my 1.5 year hiatus on my kit, and even now when I attempt to work on it I am hesitant to reach out for any kind of help.
Absolutely reach out, most members are so helpful! Especially on the detachment forums for whatever costume it is, the people on there are checking those to help!
Amen! I had these issues myself before I ever considered joining. I still am joining (ANH Vader hopeful for the Midwest Garrison. Waiting on helmet to arrive and tailored cape to get back). However I experienced this and pointed this same issue out literally you told a 1-1 story of my own accounts. I noticed and I'll just say it how it is snobby, many of the 501rst members are what you'd call mid class or w/e up and same issue as normies, you'll see the downplay just cause theres cost 100000 LOL and printed from the exact molds. It happens in and out of the legion - but it is an overall legion problem.
Any ways still cant wait to join and help solve the problem!
This. I just recently became on Official Member with the Mandalorian Mercs. When people attend cons, they are proud of their costumes. And I have to admit that I very often like armour made of EVA a lot. That is is not approvable with the officially recognized costuming clubs for good reasons who cares at this point. I also like crossover designs. And I am always happy to see people in costume. Even if I know not next to nothing about e.g. anime. I can still appreciate if it looks good to me or gets the message accross.
Only if visitors walk up to our booth and start to ask whether items are for sale (which they never are), or how you can make things. Or who we are and if they can join. Then it is the time to start explaining things. But never ever say the costume they wear is not good - because people very often put a ton of effort into it. Being mean is not what we represent - be it the 501st, Rebel Legion or Mercs. We want to do good things. And telling people their costume is bad is the exact opposite.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence. I’m 501st and it took some time for approval. I was happy with a Jedi costume I made once and asked someone in that group about it and they made me feel horrible, tearing apart everything I thought looked good. Immediately I associated that behavior with everyone in that group. I later learned that individual was notorious and I think was taken out, even people who did not meet them knew who I was talking about, but that first experience still hurts whenever I look at that club’s banner.
A couple instances where people who I’ve talked to who were interested in joining the 501st, I could tell just by looking their Vader would not pass (half bought at a costume shop and half at Hot Topic) so instead of saying it wouldn’t pass I said a couple of things that would need to be altered and they understood.
Another wanted to join with ROTJ Luke, who I directed toward the Rebel Legion.
Constructive criticism when they ask for advice, but nothing that would make them feel horrible about asking.
This is a great message for solving the "Missing stair" issue. Thank you.
When i first approached my local garrison at a convention i got a mixed bag: most of them giving me the cold shoulder. Since they don't like clones that much and i can understand that.
So i approached one guy (which has an approved Rots Cody and other clone costumes, he's basically the biggest ''clone guy'' in the garrison) and even as i tried to be really friendly (complimenting his work) he immediatly started pissing on the prequels (with an angry tone), swearing , talking to his phone while i was speaking. Like dude we just met, how rude can you possibly be in just 5 minutes?
Mind you that i already had kit and everything to work on, so i was not asking for vendors names or anything. I was just trying to get some advice and to share my passion but he wasn't having any of that. He gave me the silent treatment on all my technical questions and in the end he said: ''It's all wrong.'' and then walked away.
For a while i was seriously thinking about not joining the 501st, luckily i've since met many wonderful people in the association an it turns out that guy is the big bad apple, and everyone knows it and stays away for him (too bad is always present and was even the LMO).
Wow, that sounds like a rough interaction. I am sorry you had it, and so glad you found some better clone friends there. Many people would just move on after that, and I am glad you tried again. Next time it might be you the next future Clone Trooper meets at the table!
As with everything, it’s up to us to be the change and call out bullshit when it happens. I’ve started doing it on some of the Vader FB pages I’m on coz I’m sick of fellow members giving unsolicited advice or straight up bashing people
You have spoken - This is the way. And I need to reach out more to those bad apples. Thanks for reminding us all. TK-23115 from German Garrison
This is a really good video. Like all garrisons we do have our fair share of this and I think you've covered some of the issues that lead to these bad experiences. I know our leadership does listen to the critical comments and we have made some changes to some of the stuff we do that turned out to be not so great. That said we all have our part to play in removing the issues.
I do hope some of you watching this who aren't legion and have had some bad experiences maybe give us a 2nd chance. Whilst you might no get on with everyone you meet you will struggle to find a member who's not made some really close friends all over the world through the legion. Also you get to do some cool stuff some times which is really fun.
I had an experience, I'm trying to get into the 501st eventually as a tie pilot. I've read the crl's on what the standard for the costume was and wanted clarification and to know if a pair of boots was acceptable. So before I bought them I asked if the boots were acceptable. The first reply was blunt those aren't this type of boots, there wasn't, as people have said here constructive criticism. As soon as I read the persons response I was thinking I don't need to put up with someone's elitist attitude ( it may not have been intended that way, but it was taken that way). More people responded to my question and they had good advice and even pointed to boots they bought and got approved into the 501st. I appreciated the replies to my question that pointed to alternatives and other places to look for boots. I have since bought boots to start building my costume.
Yeah, text responses can often be construed as more blunt. It is hard to give tone by text, it may have been an innocent misunderstanding. But it also could be just a person who was blunt and not helpful. I am glad others helped.
ive gotten that kind of feedback over the years. Its hard to take but in a way it helps push me to get better at making the said parts more accurate. Gotta make lemon aid out of lemons.
Thank you for this video as it sums up what we should do as a the 501st.
I love that a video like this exists. I am a prospective Vader. I've been steadily working on my costume for almost a year. I started with a Rubies supreme and I have put a lot of work into it. It's not perfect, but it's getting there. And there is this one fucking ROTJ Vader I really wanna call out but I won't who will go into posts and lists out what parts he would not approve out of your costume. He'll discourage anyone in a Rubies, make snide remarks constantly, and is an all around snob. It's infuriating, especially when there's a language barrier or there's casual fans trying to get into the hobby. I wanted to stay away from the 501st because of him. He would pick on everyone. He still does. We dress up as Star Wars characters, it's not that deep. You're not actually Vader. Yes, you've sank a lot of money into this. Big whoop. That's no excuse to constantly shoot down incoming members with questions or parts that don't come from the ultra expensive lists you refuse to stray from.
That sounds miserable, I am sorry you are having to endure that. that is not what this hobby is a lot, and most are not at all like that. I hope you get to wear it soon, Vader is iconic and everyone wants to take pictures with him!
Yes yes YES!!!!! Thank you for this! What an amazing message! Please post this to the forums! Or heck, I just may!
Of course, feel free to re-post. Which forums? I saw that the 501st Legion LCO just posted it on the 501st forums. That is very encouraging.
Had this exact experience with a 501st member at my 3 ever con ( 47 yo and just went to first last year ) and my FIRST con in cosplay a month ago wearing my MMCC per app kit, which I was already BEYOND nervous about. I am 98% to being done and I was completely snubbed by a 501st boba, tried speaking with him, he looked me up and down and just turned for the picture my wife was taking. It was completely demoralizing and the months of work I have spent building I just wanted to crawl away. Even my wife and son noticed the interaction from a far. Thank you for addressing this. We all love starwars and just because we are not a cannon char or 100% screen accurate we should not be looked down upon. We are a community and a family regardless of which group we belong to and all should be treated with respect. Again thank you !
I am sorry they snubbed you like that. Hopefully he was just in character, it can be really hard to hear over the fans, and Boba is a man of few words. But it also easily as likely that he was dismissive, and that is not okay.
We just had a small con yesterday, and so got it talk to so many costumed fans, many that were cardboard and tape Star Wars characters. We nerded out so hard about our love for the characters, and it was supportive (at least when I was there). We are working on it!
Have to say I've never had a bad reaction with anyone in the 501st as I'm building my clone armor or with the mandalorian mercs either.
That is great to hear, that’s how it should always be!
That was some really great advice. That kind of kindess and empathy is what will really make all of this a great experience for fans new and old. Thanks for sharing. New subscriber!
Some people wanna go all the way. Others wanna or financial can not go that screen accurate. At the end of the day if your happy with your cosplay then it’s fine. Don’t give unsolicited advise.
Fantastic video, and good on you for saying this in a public forum!
It’s a great call to arms to be extra vigilant in calling out this kind of behavior and also to work on our own soft skills when dealing with the public.
Fortunately I’ve never experienced this attitude first hand, but it deeply saddens me whenever I hear about other’s bad experiences with 501st members. I myself have found that I’ve have been conditioned to be hyper critical of my own and other’s costumes just through the nature of hours of staring at reference, but I make sure my opinions are kept to myself unless specifically asked for. After all they’re just opinions!
Cheers, TK/CC-44214
Glad this popped into my feed, I would honestly love to join the 501st at some point but cannot get over the bad stories I have heard. I even reached out recently to my nearest division about somehow connecting and participating while I am 17 and cannot officially apply to join but I got sent to the academy and when I applied to that it fell on deaf ears and was ignored and my follow up to guy I knew was in the 501st somewhat nearby (dont know him but knew he was in it, hoping he could at least pass a word on) it also was ignored. Kinda sucks that the 501st was founded in the city I live in but no one really cares about the cosplayers here especially the ones younger than 18. I even have 4 costumes now, two are WIP or budget but my other two could be approved. I just wanted to get involved and plugged in and meet likeminded people but it just sucks when people dont seem to care much
So sorry to hear that! One thing for sure is you will get varying degrees of responses from some people because they are all volunteers. Some are very responsive, and others not. The best option four you situation is to contact them on their social media (might be different/more responsive people running those) or meet them at a convention or other event
Hi Venom- I agree the advice you received from OddViking. Reaching out to the group on social media can be hit or miss as it depends upon who is responsible for answering those messages. (I speak from experience as that has sometimes been my job in the past and I've accidentally missed messages coming in.) We are volunteers with day jobs. OddViking was spot on when he said to find the 501st when they are at an event and chat with the members. It's much easier to have these conversations in-person and make connections with your local garrison. It's also a wonderful opportunity to ask questions about the costumes. A good question to ask is: "How can I build the best possible [name of costume?]" versus "Will I get approved?" We are a costuming club and our passion is building costumes. The joy of being in the 501st is crafting the most screen-accurate costumes possible. I've been in the group for eight years and I always consider it a gift when my fellow members offer up suggestions to improve my existing costumes.
@@surfercouple Thanks for the advice, one of the things I was trying to figure out was when and where are events near me. My closest garrison is the carolina garrison and from social media posts the events are 2-4 hours away from me and I have no way of finding out when and where the next events are
Most any multigenre comic con would be a good place to start. The con promoters will almost always let ppl know if any organizations like that will be there. It's good advertising.
Yes definitely what @oddviking said. While most troops are us putting on a show for the public, so to speak, the local conventions are always an event for us to interact with and mentor potential recruits. You'll also most likely meet the people willing to help. Locate the booth and find the ones engaging with other people and answering questions.
Well said Colin!
I left after a few years being both 501st and RL member sadly. I still have good friends from the club who will last
Not only can that color a person's opinion of the entire group, it can also teach THEM to act the same way in the future. I was taught to do constructive criticism by first, pointing out something that works, and then suggest a possible improvement. Of course, only if your input or opinion is requested.
Agreed. Waiting to be asked for an opinion would solve a majority of these issues. The "compliment sandwich" is a great approach, and in general coming from helpful and positive would do a lot for any interactions.
Outstanding message brilliantly articulated!
Awesome message. Thanks for putting this out there! 🙏🏼
Thank you for the encouraging video. I just had my first troop as a guest (German Garrison) with a non tailor made imperial officer costume. Not knowing how the 501st members would react to this, I was a bit nervous. However, I was greeted in a very friendly manner and it was not an issue that my approval is not complete yet. I have asked many questions about their costumes and also asked for honest feedback on my tunic. In this context however, I was told exactly about this problem, which you draw attention in this video. To the 501st members who put a lot of time, money and enthusiasm into their costumes, I would like to say: most people started out small and are grateful for your appreciation, especially when you can tell that someone has put an effort into their costume. Thank you.
that is so good to hear!
Great video! You’ve vocalized what a lot of us have thought.
You Sir....are a great leader. This "snobby" or "elitist" attitude is not only a 501st or Rebel Legions phenomenon. The SCA has a similar problem. It happens a great deal - I would be of the same mindset as many of those who "throw in the towel" before they even get a chance to explore - if it were not for the SCA and how it tempered me in that regard. You are 100% correct - it is the responsibility of each member of a group to police their own. Your suggestions are spot on. I applaud your effort and goals. MTFBWY
Thank you so much! I agree, I spent years in the SCA and saw it there, and it shows up everywhere people are passionate about accuracy.
I could only base this on my experience… total noob at a convention… was welcomed into there area immediately.. like I was already part of the group.. GalaxyCon 2021 … Carolina Garrison
Right after that I was 501st approved..
I love this message. I just discovered your channel yesterday, and am very impressed. I feel this message can't be preached enough. I am part of a Mandalorian club (probably not the one your thinking of) and they approached me with this same mentality. We work very closely with our local 501st, which I have to admit, as far as I have heard and have witnessed, they also take on this mentality of encourage all cosplay/costumers no matter their level of expertise or lack there of. I look forward to your future videos.
That is so great to hear! There are good, encouraging people everywhere, and we can all help each other enjoy cosplay.
I really appreciate this video, thank you for making it.
It's not the rank and file Legion members that are toxic, it does however seem to be a requirement of leadership to be not only toxic but cliquey.
I've watched and enjoyed your videos over the last year or so entering this space with my own projects, and appreciate you making this video.
From my limited experience with past and current members of the 501st and other official groups, it's as you say...there are "some bad apples" and levels of bad apple-ness. :P
I've had people tell me the pluses and minuses of the various groups. I guess with anything, involvement can be as superficial or deep as you want it to be. My experience wasn't related to costuming advice. The few bad apples I met were definitely not good representatives of their group (I won't name the group specifically), but like money & power in politics, it makes things complicated when status and receiving certain perks and discounts influences moral compasses and it will always be too tempting for some, unless it's regulated and monitored with an ethics code or something (maybe this exists, I don't know).
Of course, the great things are the charity work, community, and the fun & wholesome things I know it is also.
I read your description about why you made this video and I know this is an ongoing, complicated issue, so I appreciate you bringing it up for awareness.
Personally, even if I am able to make or own kits that are or could be approved by groups, I think I'll be an independent free agent.
Hopefully I can still meet cool people & makers, members and non-members alike. Thanks Collin! Keep up the great work!
Thank you!
I almost left the legion because of not just "bad apples" but people who were actively being inappropriate and violating consent towards other members- and the fact that command staff rarely does anything about it. I appreciate and respect that we ourselves can at least foster positivity and avoid negative fan interactions. But what is being done to actually remove those bad apples? To avoid individuals who continue to spoil the bunch and as a result we lose members who care about fans? As far as I can see, staff is complacent in allowing them to remain (if they aren't among their ranks themselves). This must stop and yet every effort to do so leads to people getting kicked out for trying to re-evaluate how our organization runs.
Absolutely this! All of this! Thank you!
Some of us may not have to knowledge to put these costumes together yes, but that doesn’t mean we should give up. Please be patient with us because some of us are willing to learn.
Looking forward to joining and building my first suit. Selected the snow trooper and once my back pay comes in, I can finally begin building.
Excellent! Start out by looking at builds in the Blizzard Force detachment. You can register and view the forums before you are a member, and looking through build threads (and starting one of your own) is a great way to meet some of those who built the same costume. I learned a lot, and met a lot of great people there on my first build.
It's not just personal interactions that are damaging. Seeing Legion members tear apart costumes on social media is beyond irritating. God fucking forbid if somebody just trying to have fun produces a video while wearing a costume that doesn't measure up to Legion standards! The Legion needs to ditch that "PREFERRED " shit as well. I always thought that sounded rather arrogant.
Up and coming legion member here ! SoCal garrison ! Everyone’s been really nice and I’ve been having a great time, I only ran into one guys who was a little elitist but I’m not gonna let it ruin my experience! Still exited to join
That’s so great to hear!
Wow... really nice to hear this... I did my first cosplay doing a Boba Fett Costume... I researched in the 501 archieve to make it as best as I can. My experience with a 501 member always was: This has to be like this.... this is not allowed... you have to put this here... and so on... And that said I never had the urge to get into a club which is just regulating my fun... I am doing this as best as I can... but its MY Costume .... MY rules... If somone else has a tip or so and say you could do it better if you maybe do this ... then its mostly appreciated... But most stuff I read from the 501 was always they know everything better and you are a noob... thats how they made me feel... yeah I am a noob maybe but how could you get experienced when you are only beaten down and not helped in a normal kind way ? And that is the point I was never interested to get into a club that is that strict and from the top acting down to people... When a guy from the 501 told me: Hey you have to do this like that... I said ITs MY Costume... MY Rules... ;-) Thanks for calling this out and thanks for your really good understanding of being kind and helping.Thats what I would love to have from 501 members. Great Video !!!
Thanks for sharing. I’m sorry you had that kjnd of experience. I hear that costume can be so complex, but worth it when you wear it! everyone loves meeting Boba!
I completely agree with you and thanks for this video
Glad to hear it! Thanks.
Good stuff. I’m a soon to be 14 year legion vet and am pretty tired of the bad apples and nothing being done about them. Unfortunately due to this behavior being allowed by paper leadership I have reduced the amount of troops I attend. The lesson hear should be whether you have 501 troops or 3 troops under your belt….don’t be an asshole.
Not a member but love the message! Running for president when???
Haha, thanks! Not running for president anytime soon, but I am glad this video is resonating.
This made me feel so much better thank you!!!
Oh, I am glad, thanks!
Thank you!!!!
Thanks for this video. I’m researching information on the 501, I’d love to to be a part of it. I have several costumes I’ve made and I get asked quite often if I’m a member. I have a lot of little flaws in my stuff but I always get compliments & I’d like to try. Can you update your already existing cosplays or do you need to start over again from the beginning/ scratch? I take lots of photos of my methods and progress, can I use these pictures? Thanks 😊
It is really a fun group, especially from the extra opportunities to wear your costume. You should be able to adapt an existing cosplay, unless every part is somehow not accurate enough. There is no rule about starting from any place, and in fact, a few off-the-rack costumes for things like officers are adapted to work with a few parts swapped.
Trooping is a great experience. You won't regret it.
There are a LOT of bad apples in the club, but they are protected by the rules that say you can't "disparage" fellow club members online aka you can't speak out against problematic members. I literally left the Rebel Legion to be able to speak out against 2 girls who bullied me and made false accusations against me until I was actively suicidal. Nothing ever happened, even when I quit so that I could speak out about it and shared screenshots proving what they were doing. It also allowed a sexual predator to go around harming women (he's a therapist who knew how to manipulate vulnerable women) who were unable to speak out about it. He even became the Base Commanding Officer until he was caught in lies by others and people finally believed what I had been speaking out about for a year. He resigned to keep from getting removed, but if people were able to speak out against those who were doing terrible things, maybe this wouldn't have happened. I have PTSD from this whole experience and can't find joy in Star Wars now.
Oh my, I am so sorry to hear that. What a nightmare. I am glad you were able to get away from that environment. My local groups are a lot more supportive, but it all comes down to people who step up to take on leadership.
Well said!
Hey odd Viking can you recommend a 3 d printer for cosplay or a movie realistic shop for costumes
What kind of costume are you looking to build? If available, I always prefer vacuum formed kits for things like Stormtroopers and Clone Troopers over 3D printed armor. Many use the Crealty CR-10 for helmets in one print, but I don't have a large printer. I use an Elegoo Saturn Resin Printer for smaller parts. Depending on the costume, there are different makers to recommend.
Is there a StarWars costuming club that has high costuming standards but also allows for more customization for OC characters? If you wanted to make your own, Jedi, or smuggler or the like?
yes, there are other groups that don't replicate specific canon costumes. The Dark Rmpire is one, and some groups focus on costumes of one type or another (Saber Guild for Jedi/Sith, Mandalorian Mercs for Custom Mandalorian costumes). many have guidelines or standards for costumes to be finished to a certain level, but look around and find one that feels like your kind of group!
@@OddViking Thank You! I will look into them! May the force be with you.
had a poor experience with the British wing of the 501st, they were incredibly snobbish and were allowed early entry into the convention centre to 'set up' . we had the same quantity of equipment and stuff to set up including 2 life size daleks and a TARDIS. we eventually were let in to set up but the 501st members we tried to talk to then continued to interrupt our photoshoots and cause issues - this was in 2021 - just hope they stopped being like that after that point, it wasn't very pleasant to be around them.
i totally agree with you Oddviking, that one does not represent the majority, but this squad were all snobbish towards other cosplayers, and it left quite a foul taste in the mouth so to speak
That sounds like a bad interaction, I am sorry to hear that.
The early setup was not because of prop quality, it was likely arranged months before when their group (and many others) were invited to have a fan group booth by that convention. Sometimes you can apply for that access as well, and the benefit is that usually at least a few people get comped or reduced cost convention badges.
@@OddViking yeah we had the same as the 501st but in fair play the con was really badly organized. btw love your vids, I'm not a star wars costume or prop maker but the skills you have shown I've been able to translate into my dr who props etc
Totally agree with you 100%
CC-2627 member since 2005
Really great video. Well done 👍
Thank you so much!
Well said.
Thank you
I'm apprehensive to join my local ct garrison. The arrogance and arguing about the smaller details are just exhausting to read. I want to make a good ct that I'm happy with, and to have the support of others in the process. When trying to figure out how to make this ct project I'm already struggling with finding methods for some of the smallest things.. so many conflicting information. I truly wish that members were more approachable because it would be nice to find people that used different methods. I've noticed a lot of "this is the right way to make this, no other way can or should work" mentality which really kills the creativity of costume building.
each costume type has a detachment, like the Clone Trooper detachment, and those forums are great places to find a lot of different approaches to a build. hopefully there are some helpful posts for you there. I read a bunch and then went with what worked for me.
@@OddViking Thanks for the tip! I will look into that asap.
A lot of this might be also similar to historical re-enactors and LARPers. I often get the feeling that one group also looks down a bit on the other. Which I also find sad. Why not keep an open mind? As I went through the entire creating and approval process with my canon costume with the Mercs, I got more and more of the feeling that what we do is more "re-enacting Star Wars" then just making a costume (which I had not problem with, as I have a solid modelmaking background). It is difficult to explain, but why not have fun with both. Here in Germany, medieval re-enactors very often smile about people who buy LARP armour off the shelf, not quite fitting and incorrectly put together. But at first glance, it looks cool. If the people wearing it feel good - why not? Nobody is hurt, all is good.
Same with the different types of Star Wars costuming. We should not separate from each other, but stick together. After all, we all love the same thing. In our costuming groups, we are happy counting every rivet (this term exists in the German model railway hobby - rivet counters, to achieve utmost precision), but let the others also having fun by playing with toy trains. All of this is good and has its place. And yes, after some time one might lead to the other. Or not.
I promise to not write a third essay.
Yes, this attitude occurs whenever there is passion behind accuracy. I was a re-enactor for years too, and it was rampant there. I loved historical accuracy, but I know it was not for everyone.
I love the term "rivet counters" which is a perfect term for this.
We just need to consciously work to be more inclusive and supportive of people who are nerds about the same things we are!
That was basically my experience with the local legion me and my buddy wanted to join the rebel legion and they turned us away because we had non-screen accurate rebel costumes then rouge 1 came out and suddenly we looked accurate but I will not be returning to the local legion
Sorry to hear that. We really need to be better.
I may have given up cosplay because of the Legion, but I wanted to do an update because the hell with it if cancel culture will come to cancel cosplay well there’s one more thing cosplayers can try to do before that happens and that is the Legion needs to stop acting like their gods and Kings, which they’re not the Legion is comprised of civilians wearingplastic not armor plastic. The Legion needs to understand not everybody is expert on building these costume so if you want any of them to succeed, you have to help them but if you’re there to sabotage then maybe you’re in the wrong place. I nearly came close to joining after some Legion members made up lies and stories that I inappropriately touch someone which I never did. They said it to only get rid of me because I’m an autistic freak who was apparently going to sabotage the Legion, which I wasn’t. For years, I tried to do charity on my own, but it’s apparently not possible since especially some members will go out of the way to sabotage, which is unbelievable since I’ve known most members who don’t care about charity and help some only care about greed and power. so change your tune or keep up this mess and don’t be surprised If not just the legion but cosplay altogether will be canceled. We have the power to change this not everything has to be shitty. Think about it but if you’re the one who wants to give up fine.
PS to anyone who is offended and is planning to write a hate comment towards me be a little courageous and actually try to face me in person instead of writing a message like a coward that’s one example of a change either face or keep your comments to yourself because I don’t feel threatened by your messages
TX73347 - I joined because i want to bring smiles to Children, I have the blessing to live in a City that we have Children Hospitals. I say Blessing because Im also a Father and bringing joy to my child when we are in a Hospital is everything to me.
So I completely agree with you, and i have experience this as well. I try to distance myself from the Legion Politics and focused on the reason I Joined. I try my best to support anyone that is an Sci-fi or Star Wars enthusiast. I love giving Tips and tricks I have learned and try to learn from other in our out of the 501st.
I need to do better in as well. Thank you for your TH-cam channel and your support.👍
Yes! this is what it is all about!
I competely agree! Greetings from ID/TB 86351 German Garrison
At one time I was 501st, and I saw too much drunkenness at after party events. It was ridiculous.
Well said mate
Mercs have the same issue. I've attempted to get in several times and they've given up because every time they make me feel like because I have to do it cheap that i don't belong (because their definition of budget is still way beyond normal options of budget)
I defended and supported a friend who was being bullied and harassed out of the legion who was dedicated to arranging amazing troops and recruiting new members and guess what, I became their next target... I defended myself for a few rounds but the lynch mob was frothing for my removal do I resigned to their delight.
I sold me and my wife’s costumes and moved on with my life. Sad outcome as I had invested thousands of dollars and hours into the hobby.
Oh, that sounds terrible! I am so sorry to hear that.
Exactly!!
Agreed.
Amen
Im a member of the 501st and I have heard of that many times.
Its not fun and its bad publicity
Sound advice. Lord Vader would not alter this deal. 👍🏻
I´m not a member, but also the 501st members are HUMAN BEINGS. Humans have bad days from time 2 time. Maybe they met someone who was in a bad mood that day. Not every person can keep back if they are angry or sad.
If you don’t have anything nice to say don’t say anything at all. Or don’t go to the convention. There is a responsibility as a member of the legion to represent the group as a fun and welcoming costuming community. Just because you’re not employed by the 501st doesn’t mean you don’t have to uphold the good reputation.
Are they really that bad? I heard they were bad but damn.
No, just some are. This video is a reminder to be better for those that need to hear it.
I personally can't stand when crls have vague rules that are always exploited, i.e. 'all weathering must be consistent' but someone can just avoid weathering all together. It leaves a sour taste in the mouth when someone can have a kit that looks like it's made of cheap plastic but others get denied because their weathering isn't perfect (and they don't get any advice). I'm sure it sounds silly but I see countless examples each and every day that make me think I should play it safe and be lazy (that's the exact wrong direction any costuming group should steer people into).
My point is that it divides the community over something so trivial as weathering and you'd face significant risk if you tried to openly discuss it.
501st/Rebel Legion isn’t alone with this.
TB/DZ/TD/IN/TI-3279
We should all have each other’s back and positivity endorse each other , i never liked how some guys act like gatekeepers to being a “ true “ star wars fan , most people have a level of commitment to their jobs , buisness, family , health and this list can go on forever some people have different goals in life but when we do unite we should just share the love of the franchise not compete for it . May the force b with you all my friends
Absolutely. Well said.