Have you thought of changing this chanmel's name to Seraphine or Seraphine bakes? Your channel is amazing and truly my huge source to learn in depth bread making
Usage of MSG leading to reduced salt is an idea MSG producer tried to sell for years. Even though their research might not be totally objective, I think they hold some truth. Sadly though, it doesn’t reflect how people use MSG IRL. People don’t add MSG and reduce salt, they add MSG on top of the usual amount of salt. Anyway, on the topic of bread, I once made a sourdough using leftover chicken broth to replace part of the water. I reduced the amount of salt from my usual 2% to about 1-ish% to compensate for the salt and MSG in the broth. The bread turned out amazing. Like, I can eat it toasted on its own even without butter. And it was straight lean dough, too. Just starter, flour, salt, broth. Well, there’s tiny bit of fat and possibly some form of sugar in the broth, but nothing else; you get the idea. I think that kinda prove the point that MSG can compensate for the salt? Soy sauce is an interesting idea. It’s one way I eat my sourdough when I’m too lazy to find any filling or even to wash the butter knife (dish soap irritates my hand, so I have to wear gloves before washing which is a hassle). Just toast the bread, a few drops of soy sauce here and there, and it’s great already. Adding it into the bread directly sound like a good option.
Chicken broth and sourdough sound like a great pairing, if a bit unusual, I can definitely see the bread's umami being off the charts, especially since some LAB produce a form of MSG as well. A soy sauce and sourdough pairing also sounds like a good match. Very interesting information, thank you for the comment!
Thank you Seraphine! Most interesting! I'm going to try the MSG sometime, and maybe try the soy sauce sometime, as well. For a couple years now, I've been substituting my salt with 1/4 part of potassium chloride. This may not work for everybody, but it works well for my wife and I. The bread seems to work, perform and taste the same as with just salt only. But, I now only use 1.5% salt in the bread by bakers percentage.
The MSG is an interesting idea, and soy sauce does contain a form of MSG which is the source of its umami taste, so it definitely seems to be worth at least one try. I did also read a little bit about the use of potassium chloride in bread dough, great to hear that it works for your bread! Happy baking!
Over the years I have reduced the amount of salt in pasta until I get used to no salt at all (since in my case it is the food I eat the most, even more than bread) and I soon realized that I tended to use more parmigiano (which is indeed salty but also contains natural msg, still not as much salt as before and also unequally distributed). In eggs I managed to reduce it to zero without replacing it with anything else. For bread I usually make bread with a little bit less salt than 2% (like 1.5-1.8%) but I just don't like bread with no salt at all (at least not alone... I can eat Toscano bread with prosciutto, but I cannot eat it alone). When you get used to eating with little salt, it's easy to find everything too salty when you eat out so that's a problem, but on the other hand it is also surprising how many more flavours you can perceive (milder/delicate flavours that are normally covered by salt). In short, a process that on one hand is a matter of habit but on the other also brings unexpected advantages/disadvantages.
It does seem that gradual reduction of salt is a very effective way to cut down on salt use and I suppose after you're used to the low salt, "regular" restaurant food tastes too salty. I think I've had a similar experience with sugar, I tend to drink sugar-free tea and find that the sweet teas from the convenience stores are way too sweet for me now. Thanks for the interesting comment!
This is really interesting. I've been using msg and/or chicken powder for years to reduce the amount of salt that's needed and enhance flavor, but never even thought to use those things in my breads. Maybe chicken powder flavored bread will be good? It works for crackers/chips/crisps/fries so no reason it shouldn't work in bread. Im going to make some naan/flatbread with it for curry. On a completely unrelated note, my partner and I did a lazy incorporation of spent coffee grounds into a chocolate cake, just to see if we could get away with literally dumping spent grounds from the morning into cake made in the afternoon. It worked out better than expected; there was a very slight graininess if you looked for it, but the increased intensity of the chocolate flavor, and moister crumb was what both my partner and I noticed the most. The graininess was mostly apparent if I ground the crumb against the roof of my mouth with my tongue... so not really how cake is typically consumed. Will definitely be using that in future chocolate cakes.
Thank you for the interesting information! Chicken powder for bread and naan sounds super delicious, I can imagine how good it would taste with curry. Additionally, a chocolate coffee cake sounds very satisfying, love these wonderfully (delicious) ideas :)
Not exactly chicken powder, but I made sourdough with leftover chicken broth replacing part of the water a few times. It was amazing. I dial down my salt a bit to compensate for salt & MSG in the broth but the bread doesn’t taste bland at all; on the contrary, I can eat it on its own without any fillings or toppings. The only downside is the shelf life. Normally my bread last a week, this one just disappeared into thin air within a couple of days!
I don't know how one can discuss this topic without mentioning the possibility of replacing sodium chloride with potassium chloride. There are studies that even indicate potential proportions of sodium chloride to potassium chloride that make it practically undetectable in taste and affect the gluten network in a very similar way.
Hm, was never thinking about the importance of salt in Dough. Is it, because salt bind water, and release it during the baking process, maybe? Anyway, thanks for looking into it and break it down. 🤓🤟 Keep going, ladies.
Salt does seem to bind water in a way, although it still "holds" onto it after baking which is part of its importance, especially in maintaining the shelf life, thanks for the comment!
A lot of time spent on flavor, but I am specifically only interested in the *functionality* of salt, such as the crumb structure and yeast-slowing. So, what else can I use to slow the yeast? KCl? And what else can make the smaller crumb structure? These are the things I was hoping to find in this video, but clearly it wasn't focused on that. I want to make 100% whole grain bread with little to no sodium. Thank you.
You can reduce it to 1% of the total dough weight, but you might need to adjust the fermentation time. Besides flavor and other aspects, salt is also needed for the structure of the bread.
At the end of the day unless you eat the whole loaf of bread in one sitting verses every two to three days salt is not going to be unhealthy. When I make homemade bread I don't eat bread every day. I usually eat it once or twice a week as I watch my carb intake. Science is always conflicting. I like bread made with salt. Never been a problem for me. I don't like sour dough bread that much. But I like biga fermentation. Thanks to you and your videos I am hooked. So, when are you going do more baking? How about a chocolate bread or chocolate creme bread-that🎉 complement coffee?
Salt is only bad for people who already have hypertension. And hypertension is more likely caused by being overweight and eating ultra processed food than actually consuming slightly more salt. Most study about relation between salt consumption and cardiovascular disease are just based on surveys which do not count other types of variables like insulin resistance or living condition.
A couple of months ago I grabbed the wrong container and added pure MSG instead of salt. The bread came up nicely. It tasted awful though! Would never do that again. I think even adding a noticable percentage (maybe replace 20 % of salt with MSG) is disgusting. I also ran out of salt once years ago, but still had a bottle of soy sauce. Really didn't like it as well. Although it was still a lot better than the MSG bread.
About the "cardiovascular health" and salt connection: Ask yourself this - when arteries clog up, is it due to salt blockages in them? And, when you see doctors show the white goo they sueeze out of an artery - is it salt or maybe potato mash? No, "it's the FAT".
But salt just isn't bad for you, the 2300 RDA comes from selective epidemiology where they compared 7 countries and those with less salt consumption had less cardio vascular disease. If you look at the full set of countries which was in the low 20s iirc, the more salt people ate the better off they actually were. If you look at salt consumption per capita and cardiovascular issue per capita in countries, you can see that there is no real correlation. Increased salt consumption just is not in any way shape or form the leading risk factor for cardiovascular disease. People in Uzbekistan eat as much salt as Americans and have a 5 times higher chance of dying from heart disease, Koreans eat 30% more salt than Americans and have half as many cardio vascular disease related deaths
Recent studies show added salt means 40% increased rates of cancer. Studies in Korean link salt to hypertension, but Korea uses different types of salt like Bamboo salt and solar salt that contain more potassium as opposed to sodium.
@@darkhorseman8263 Because in the same way studies link meat over consumption to adverse health effects, they also link over salt consumption to adverse health effects. The culprit in these things isn't salt or meat, it's over consumption, people who eat more have adverse health effects. Salt is also added to a lot of processed food for better shelf life so over consumption of those which are also low in water will lead to adverse health effects. 2g of salt in a summer salad is not the same as 2g of salt in a bag of chips. The salt concentration of your food matters more than absolute amount of salt you consume, this is one of the shortfalls of drawing conclusions about nutrition from epidemiological studies
@taiiiz3969 Any study linking meat to poor health outcomes is also flawed due to lack of cofactors. Processed meat is only dangerous because of cooked nitrates. Nitrates, nitrites, nitrosamines, sulfates and sulfides are metabolised via nitrate reductases, which are dependent on molybdenum cofactors as a catalytic converter. AKA it's only bad if you are deficient in the trace element molybdenum.
Far less people are sodium sensitive (10-15%) than have a hyperinsulinaemic response to carbs (50-70% in overweight western populations) , then the insulin causes renal reabsorbtion of sodium, causing hypertension. So keep the salt and ditch the bread
Again, this is an excellent and well-founded presentation of an important topic like we are already used to by this charming and witty lady. Congrats and applause! By eagerly listening, I thought that one could add fish sauce to the dough instead of soy sauce. It contains a fair amount of amino acids as well.
Thank you for the comment! Glad you liked the video, and fish sauce does sound like it could do the job, although the fishy taste may make the bread a bit more difficult to pair with certain fillings like sweet ones. Still an interesting idea though :)
@@NovitaListyani I have used different kinds of fish sauce and realized quite some differences in taste. For example, Thai and Vietnamese fish sauces are quite cheap but have the strongest fishy notes. The Korean tuna fish sauce which I use for making Kim Chi is much less fishy but costs 4 times as much. The best is the Italian "Colatura di Alici" but costs a fortune (more than 20 times). I will start to make Foccacia with Korean fish sauce as my first experiment in this direction. Salutations from Germany to Bali.
Seraphine kamu pintar sekali dan sangat membantu untuk pembuatan roti , aku harap kamupun aktif di instagram dan semakin banyak orang yang mengenalmu dan terbantu oleh penjelasanmu
Have you thought of changing this chanmel's name to Seraphine or Seraphine bakes?
Your channel is amazing and truly my huge source to learn in depth bread making
I always end up binge watching but I'm starting to feel ready to actually make a recipe. So intimidating!
Usage of MSG leading to reduced salt is an idea MSG producer tried to sell for years. Even though their research might not be totally objective, I think they hold some truth. Sadly though, it doesn’t reflect how people use MSG IRL. People don’t add MSG and reduce salt, they add MSG on top of the usual amount of salt.
Anyway, on the topic of bread, I once made a sourdough using leftover chicken broth to replace part of the water. I reduced the amount of salt from my usual 2% to about 1-ish% to compensate for the salt and MSG in the broth. The bread turned out amazing. Like, I can eat it toasted on its own even without butter. And it was straight lean dough, too. Just starter, flour, salt, broth. Well, there’s tiny bit of fat and possibly some form of sugar in the broth, but nothing else; you get the idea. I think that kinda prove the point that MSG can compensate for the salt?
Soy sauce is an interesting idea. It’s one way I eat my sourdough when I’m too lazy to find any filling or even to wash the butter knife (dish soap irritates my hand, so I have to wear gloves before washing which is a hassle). Just toast the bread, a few drops of soy sauce here and there, and it’s great already. Adding it into the bread directly sound like a good option.
Chicken broth and sourdough sound like a great pairing, if a bit unusual, I can definitely see the bread's umami being off the charts, especially since some LAB produce a form of MSG as well. A soy sauce and sourdough pairing also sounds like a good match. Very interesting information, thank you for the comment!
Thank you Seraphine! Most interesting! I'm going to try the MSG sometime, and maybe try the soy sauce sometime, as well.
For a couple years now, I've been substituting my salt with 1/4 part of potassium chloride. This may not work for everybody, but it works well for my wife and I. The bread seems to work, perform and taste the same as with just salt only. But, I now only use 1.5% salt in the bread by bakers percentage.
The MSG is an interesting idea, and soy sauce does contain a form of MSG which is the source of its umami taste, so it definitely seems to be worth at least one try. I did also read a little bit about the use of potassium chloride in bread dough, great to hear that it works for your bread! Happy baking!
Over the years I have reduced the amount of salt in pasta until I get used to no salt at all (since in my case it is the food I eat the most, even more than bread) and I soon realized that I tended to use more parmigiano (which is indeed salty but also contains natural msg, still not as much salt as before and also unequally distributed).
In eggs I managed to reduce it to zero without replacing it with anything else.
For bread I usually make bread with a little bit less salt than 2% (like 1.5-1.8%) but I just don't like bread with no salt at all (at least not alone... I can eat Toscano bread with prosciutto, but I cannot eat it alone).
When you get used to eating with little salt, it's easy to find everything too salty when you eat out so that's a problem, but on the other hand it is also surprising how many more flavours you can perceive (milder/delicate flavours that are normally covered by salt).
In short, a process that on one hand is a matter of habit but on the other also brings unexpected advantages/disadvantages.
It does seem that gradual reduction of salt is a very effective way to cut down on salt use and I suppose after you're used to the low salt, "regular" restaurant food tastes too salty. I think I've had a similar experience with sugar, I tend to drink sugar-free tea and find that the sweet teas from the convenience stores are way too sweet for me now. Thanks for the interesting comment!
This is really interesting. I've been using msg and/or chicken powder for years to reduce the amount of salt that's needed and enhance flavor, but never even thought to use those things in my breads. Maybe chicken powder flavored bread will be good? It works for crackers/chips/crisps/fries so no reason it shouldn't work in bread. Im going to make some naan/flatbread with it for curry.
On a completely unrelated note, my partner and I did a lazy incorporation of spent coffee grounds into a chocolate cake, just to see if we could get away with literally dumping spent grounds from the morning into cake made in the afternoon. It worked out better than expected; there was a very slight graininess if you looked for it, but the increased intensity of the chocolate flavor, and moister crumb was what both my partner and I noticed the most. The graininess was mostly apparent if I ground the crumb against the roof of my mouth with my tongue... so not really how cake is typically consumed. Will definitely be using that in future chocolate cakes.
Thank you for the interesting information! Chicken powder for bread and naan sounds super delicious, I can imagine how good it would taste with curry.
Additionally, a chocolate coffee cake sounds very satisfying, love these wonderfully (delicious) ideas :)
Not exactly chicken powder, but I made sourdough with leftover chicken broth replacing part of the water a few times. It was amazing. I dial down my salt a bit to compensate for salt & MSG in the broth but the bread doesn’t taste bland at all; on the contrary, I can eat it on its own without any fillings or toppings. The only downside is the shelf life. Normally my bread last a week, this one just disappeared into thin air within a couple of days!
I don't know how one can discuss this topic without mentioning the possibility of replacing sodium chloride with potassium chloride. There are studies that even indicate potential proportions of sodium chloride to potassium chloride that make it practically undetectable in taste and affect the gluten network in a very similar way.
Did you see the full video? Because she is talking about it.
@@IPMan-me6lo well, she talked about it enough to say that she wasn't going to talk about it, lol.
Hm, was never thinking about the importance of salt in Dough. Is it, because salt bind water, and release it during the baking process, maybe? Anyway, thanks for looking into it and break it down. 🤓🤟 Keep going, ladies.
Salt does seem to bind water in a way, although it still "holds" onto it after baking which is part of its importance, especially in maintaining the shelf life, thanks for the comment!
A lot of time spent on flavor, but I am specifically only interested in the *functionality* of salt, such as the crumb structure and yeast-slowing. So, what else can I use to slow the yeast? KCl? And what else can make the smaller crumb structure? These are the things I was hoping to find in this video, but clearly it wasn't focused on that. I want to make 100% whole grain bread with little to no sodium. Thank you.
...specifically sandwich bread, not sourdough.
Seraphine would you make or try a cold bread , the bread is still soft when store in the fridge
Can you make soft baked doughnuts. Please 🙏🏻
Is it ok to use 50% less salt to baguette dough? Is salt the contributory factor to get that full holey crumb in baguette?
You can reduce it to 1% of the total dough weight, but you might need to adjust the fermentation time. Besides flavor and other aspects, salt is also needed for the structure of the bread.
At the end of the day unless you eat the whole loaf of bread in one sitting verses every two to three days salt is not going to be unhealthy.
When I make homemade bread I don't eat bread every day. I usually eat it once or twice a week as I watch my carb intake.
Science is always conflicting. I like bread made with salt. Never been a problem for me.
I don't like sour dough bread that much. But I like biga fermentation.
Thanks to you and your videos I am hooked.
So, when are you going do more baking? How about a chocolate bread or chocolate creme bread-that🎉 complement coffee?
I easily eat 10-20g of salt on most days. Can't do with less.
Pick something you love and let it kill your….I adore salt
Salt is only bad for people who already have hypertension. And hypertension is more likely caused by being overweight and eating ultra processed food than actually consuming slightly more salt. Most study about relation between salt consumption and cardiovascular disease are just based on surveys which do not count other types of variables like insulin resistance or living condition.
A couple of months ago I grabbed the wrong container and added pure MSG instead of salt. The bread came up nicely. It tasted awful though! Would never do that again. I think even adding a noticable percentage (maybe replace 20 % of salt with MSG) is disgusting. I also ran out of salt once years ago, but still had a bottle of soy sauce. Really didn't like it as well. Although it was still a lot better than the MSG bread.
Platable?
"Palatable" (pleasant to taste) 🧂👍
❤❤
girl what did you major in college i'm getting deja vu to my chemistry days
About the "cardiovascular health" and salt connection: Ask yourself this - when arteries clog up, is it due to salt blockages in them? And, when you see doctors show the white goo they sueeze out of an artery - is it salt or maybe potato mash?
No, "it's the FAT".
But salt just isn't bad for you, the 2300 RDA comes from selective epidemiology where they compared 7 countries and those with less salt consumption had less cardio vascular disease. If you look at the full set of countries which was in the low 20s iirc, the more salt people ate the better off they actually were. If you look at salt consumption per capita and cardiovascular issue per capita in countries, you can see that there is no real correlation. Increased salt consumption just is not in any way shape or form the leading risk factor for cardiovascular disease. People in Uzbekistan eat as much salt as Americans and have a 5 times higher chance of dying from heart disease, Koreans eat 30% more salt than Americans and have half as many cardio vascular disease related deaths
Recent studies show added salt means 40% increased rates of cancer.
Studies in Korean link salt to hypertension, but Korea uses different types of salt like Bamboo salt and solar salt that contain more potassium as opposed to sodium.
@@darkhorseman8263 Because in the same way studies link meat over consumption to adverse health effects, they also link over salt consumption to adverse health effects. The culprit in these things isn't salt or meat, it's over consumption, people who eat more have adverse health effects. Salt is also added to a lot of processed food for better shelf life so over consumption of those which are also low in water will lead to adverse health effects. 2g of salt in a summer salad is not the same as 2g of salt in a bag of chips. The salt concentration of your food matters more than absolute amount of salt you consume, this is one of the shortfalls of drawing conclusions about nutrition from epidemiological studies
@taiiiz3969 Any study linking meat to poor health outcomes is also flawed due to lack of cofactors.
Processed meat is only dangerous because of cooked nitrates.
Nitrates, nitrites, nitrosamines, sulfates and sulfides are metabolised via nitrate reductases, which are dependent on molybdenum cofactors as a catalytic converter.
AKA it's only bad if you are deficient in the trace element molybdenum.
@@darkhorseman8263 interesting, I didn't know about that
Far less people are sodium sensitive (10-15%) than have a hyperinsulinaemic response to carbs (50-70% in overweight western populations) , then the insulin causes renal reabsorbtion of sodium, causing hypertension. So keep the salt and ditch the bread
Now I would like to know how to introduce soy sauce to my bread...what percentage would be ok?
At 12:10, on the bottom right you can find the ingredient list from the paper.
@@NovitaListyani Oh! I didn't notice! Thank you! I will try a shokupan tomorrow!
@@NovitaListyani I did the bread and tasted different, but a good kind of different. My kids didn't complain which is a good measure, they are picky.
Again, this is an excellent and well-founded presentation of an important topic like we are already used to by this charming and witty lady. Congrats and applause!
By eagerly listening, I thought that one could add fish sauce to the dough instead of soy sauce. It contains a fair amount of amino acids as well.
Thank you for the comment! Glad you liked the video, and fish sauce does sound like it could do the job, although the fishy taste may make the bread a bit more difficult to pair with certain fillings like sweet ones. Still an interesting idea though :)
@@NovitaListyani I have used different kinds of fish sauce and realized quite some differences in taste. For example, Thai and Vietnamese fish sauces are quite cheap but have the strongest fishy notes. The Korean tuna fish sauce which I use for making Kim Chi is much less fishy but costs 4 times as much. The best is the Italian "Colatura di Alici" but costs a fortune (more than 20 times).
I will start to make Foccacia with Korean fish sauce as my first experiment in this direction.
Salutations from Germany to Bali.
Seraphine kamu pintar sekali dan sangat membantu untuk pembuatan roti , aku harap kamupun aktif di instagram dan semakin banyak orang yang mengenalmu dan terbantu oleh penjelasanmu