A breakthrough for SWORD comparison

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ธ.ค. 2024
  • For years sword enthusiasts have been comparing the functionality of swords, especially the Katana compared to the Longsword, and recently there has been a breakthrough in mathematically modelling sword agility and performance dynamics.
    Medieval Review
    / medievalreview
    Thomas' videos on sword dynamics:
    • Medieval Review - Docu...
    • Medieval Review - Docu...
    A breakdown of the sword calculator and the agility graph:
    blog.subcaelo.n...
    Sword agility calculator:
    subcaelo.net/e...
    Music backing:
    Celtic Impulse - Celtic by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommon...)
    Source: incompetech.com...
    Artist: incompetech.com/

ความคิดเห็น • 465

  • @medievalreview
    @medievalreview 7 ปีที่แล้ว +380

    So later in my series I will be wrapping up with speaking to interpretation of sword comparison. in the first video I covered how to read, but there is some danger in saying "bigger is better". True for agility being​ better, but how that impacts other aspects of the sword matters as you noted. Also bigger is not always better depending on sword type. For example, historical rapiers are not as agile in rotation and translation, but that is actually a good thing. As a thrusting weapon it will help to control that point to some extent. This is the challenge of the sword dynamics, because context of the sword use matters.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว +42

      Thanks for clearing this up mate, I found it interesting to see how small the rotation of the rapier was at 9:31
      This is truly is a sophisticated system. I can't wait to see your following videos about this!

    • @joncody8344
      @joncody8344 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Medieval Review so it's not the size that matters, but how you use it?? ;) nudge nudge

    • @Tkoutlosh
      @Tkoutlosh 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      You cannot simply say that one sword is better than other unless it is really piece of crap. It is always some kind of compromise of all parameters and difference in parameters doesn't apply difference in quality. If sword has POB closer to hilt it is better for stabbing and techniques like winden, durchwesseln and so on while sword with POB more far from hilt with "heavier blade" is better for cutting and good for breaking thru guards with zorn techniques or it gives more power to scheitelhaw or some false edge abnehmen techniques... what is truly better? Some of these aspects could be better suited for you, but it is not objective perspective... As any sword-fan I like this kind of research and comparisons but you can not come up with specific conclusion from it.

    • @0NBalfa0
      @0NBalfa0 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Shadiversity something to note as it is quite a common mistake that is being made when you want to compare units of a set. It is not necessary that any two items are comparable for instance if you compare 2 numbers on the plane (x,y) and (z,w) as such (x,y)

    • @medievalreview
      @medievalreview 7 ปีที่แล้ว +22

      Exactly, to some extent all this does it highlight the characteristics of the sword for the person wanting a sword that handles a certain way or benefits more from a certain characteristic. The closest you can come to outright comparisons between swords would be saying, "this sword is a little less agile than the other, but it hits harder". This is not too far removed from what people do today, but now we have a good common notation for that.
      When it comes to eventually comparing disparate swords, like Katana vs Longsword, I don't think we will truly revolutionize the conversation beyond being able to more accurate speak to their already known differences.

  • @OvAppolyon
    @OvAppolyon 7 ปีที่แล้ว +333

    Beyond that, this could be a goldmine for the smiths looking to design their own swords. This is like all of the old swordsmiths knowledge, without needing to have the swordsmiths of old around. This is absolutely incredible.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว +16

      Ingenious even ^_^

    • @OvAppolyon
      @OvAppolyon 7 ปีที่แล้ว +17

      Most certainly. We need to break away from the "old is always gold" nonsense, and encourage new and budding smiths to try new things, instead of relying on old methods producing the same swords every time. Don't get me wrong, the tried and true methods are there for a reason, but we need to expand our horizons and look forward if HEMA and reenactment is going to survive.

    • @90lancaster
      @90lancaster 7 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      Yes I was thinking the same thing - a positive review with certain characteristic and knowing scientifically what those are means you don't have to rely solely one personal expertise and for more mass produced (or at least as mass produced as decent swords get) also I guess someone who has animation experience might be able to model the data into model that included the human data - and even it could be useful to people making videogames too.
      So yeah the uses & applications for this are various and diverse and it's pretty neat stuff really.

    • @mynameismin3
      @mynameismin3 7 ปีที่แล้ว +15

      I'm no expert, and do not intend to say you are wrong and I know best, but if HEMA is "historical", which I believe is the point - learning from "historical" sources/treatises, then breaking away from historically accurate weapons would mean it is no longer HEMA, but something different, which you could call "Modern Sword Fighting".

    • @insertpersonhere4871
      @insertpersonhere4871 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      I have a Solidworks assembly model of a sword I'm planning to make, with proper material definitions. It will tell me the total mass, center of mass, principal axes of inertia, and moments of inertia. I do not know how I would translate this info into the inputs such as pivot points and vibration nodes without actually making the thing and performing physical testing. Any suggestions?

  • @MrZriael
    @MrZriael 7 ปีที่แล้ว +70

    How have I not come across this, if this catches on it could honestly create some legitimate quality competition in the industry.
    Cheers man.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว +30

      My pleasure mate but the true credit goes to Thomas from Medieval Review for presenting the incredible work of Vincent Le Chevalier and Peter Johnsson.

    • @wolfwarrior9373
      @wolfwarrior9373 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Shadiversity personally I like the look of katanas better but prefer longswords

    • @charlescannon6775
      @charlescannon6775 6 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wolf Warrior can you explain that a little bit more?

  • @90lancaster
    @90lancaster 7 ปีที่แล้ว +13

    Couple of additional suggestions for you Shad.
    1) Contact Museums and ask them to provide these measurements for key "Iconic" blades
    2) Ask anyone auctioning VERY EXPENSIVE swords to provide the measurements too.
    Either of those places using that graph or at least providing the raw data would be a good way to help spread the news too - I saw some TH-cam channel the other week who sells vintage weapons and makes videos about the more interesting ones (guns as well as blades) but that sort of place would be a good place to contact too.

  • @bigbadseed7665
    @bigbadseed7665 7 ปีที่แล้ว +170

    7:55
    Is that a Medieval illustration of a cow...farting...on a soldier?
    Truly an artistic rendering for the ages.

    • @ivaldi13
      @ivaldi13 7 ปีที่แล้ว +27

      It's not so much a "cow farting" as it is a "donkey having explosive diarrhea."

    • @Trust751
      @Trust751 7 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      I think it's meant to be a Bonnacon. Now there's some authentic medieval imagination!

    • @UnintentionalSubmarine
      @UnintentionalSubmarine 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      Well, that soldier does look rather disturbed. But he has his trusty shield covering him... *ahem*

    • @jackbaxter2223
      @jackbaxter2223 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      I'm assuming it's meant to represent 'bullshit'.

    • @Nethan2000
      @Nethan2000 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

      Yeah, it's a Bonnacon. According to Pliny, it is a cow that ejects explosive fumes out of its belly and sets a huge area on fire.

  • @akumabito2008
    @akumabito2008 7 ปีที่แล้ว +36

    With some more development, the software xould potentially do the inverse as well - you input the desired data, and assuming there are no conflicting numbers, it produces a design that matches your criteria.
    Or perhaps hook it up to a database of known (commwrcially available) swords. Input desired data, and it will find you a sword that matches those numbers aa much as possible.

    • @loganricherson
      @loganricherson 4 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      As a programmer, you could probably make a genetic algorithm that tries to make as close to the specifications as it can. However, this sounds like a very difficult program to do simply because of all of the modeling and randonly generating models and then making them usable. It's certainly doable, but that would be a huge project for one person. I'm probably never going to get around to it although I hope someone does

  • @siestatime4638
    @siestatime4638 7 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    The really exciting part of this (to me, anyway) is that, by more or less reversing the process, you can design a sword to fit a specific set of criteria.

  • @Nethan2000
    @Nethan2000 7 ปีที่แล้ว +89

    So how long until we get an RPG that uses this formula to measure sword effectiveness? Does it work on weapons other than swords?

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Nethan2000 theoretically it does, practically however it is very hard to measure other close quarter weapons.

    • @90lancaster
      @90lancaster 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

      Yes RPG paper or Computer rely on stats and this provides a whole bunch of useful stats and it also even provides a way to get good info on how to make a bad blade too (which you might want for gameplay purposes) especially if someone clever can model the data back into the character model to reflect the handling in the avatar as well as the blade.

    • @PongoXBongo
      @PongoXBongo 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      This would be awesome to see in a game. It reminds me of similar attribute charts used for shooters (range, accuracy, rate of fire, etc.). An excellent way to find your preferred needle in the haystack.

    • @ruedelta
      @ruedelta 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      RPGs start with the abstraction layer and stay within it. Actual simulation sucks because reality sucks at telling compelling stories.

    • @Kydino
      @Kydino 7 ปีที่แล้ว +11

      Rufei Tell that to the people who play Arma or Euro Truck/Train Simulator. Heck, even this channel's comunity is an example of that, I for example, came here to get good games that have realistic medieval settings recommended to me.
      Fun is subjective, don't rule out realism just because you personally don't like it.

  • @donfanto1
    @donfanto1 7 ปีที่แล้ว +15

    Now we need an aerodynamic and kinetic graph of the pummels, so we know which of them can end the foe rightly(er) than the others.

  • @chiblast100x
    @chiblast100x 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    First, I love the idea of this type of information being available for the purchasing of swords when you can't directly handle the sword in question prior to purchase. I haven't owned any such swords in ages myself, money being tight and me preferring custom, hand made, one off swords sees to that, but having seen and handled some of the junk I have in the past and discussing their purchase and having been the purchaser before I know furnishing this info would create more consumer good will both from people not feeling strong regrets over a purchase after finally handling it (which oft leads to reluctance buying from that manufacturer again later) and from being able to find the sword(s) whose handling characteristics best fit ones needs without spending as much in the search (which will help more people have the budget to buy more expensive swords).
    Second I just want to say how amusing it is to me that I understood the graph on sight.

  • @MikeKnell2884
    @MikeKnell2884 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Saved to a playlist. This video and the links in the descriptions are gold.

  • @jakeeasterday1663
    @jakeeasterday1663 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hey Shad! I'm a young bladesmith looking to start my business, and having an agility graph program on my website is an amazing idea! Thank you for introducing me to these calculators!

    • @josecoronadonieto6911
      @josecoronadonieto6911 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      How's it going 7 year's later?

    • @jakeeasterday1663
      @jakeeasterday1663 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @josecoronadonieto6911 I never started a business, my career plans have changed towards grad school, but I still forge blades and tools whenever I'm able. I never published the website anyway. Thank you for asking!

  • @18632ewa8
    @18632ewa8 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I'm truly growing to love your videos this is awesome.

  • @danielcarril7956
    @danielcarril7956 7 ปีที่แล้ว +10

    I like the idea. The only matter I see is that, with these graphs only, some weird conclusions can be drawn. For example, if we compare a gladius with a rapier, what we'll get? Both were use as thrust weapons, but in different context. With this I try to say that not only the data but also a context is necessary. I know, it's quite obvious, but context tends to be ignored.

    • @tompatterson1548
      @tompatterson1548 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      look it up!

    • @robertpatter5509
      @robertpatter5509 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      You can add an X Factor.
      The context could be :
      - One on One Duel
      - Cavalry Formation use
      - Unit vs Unit battle
      - Infantry Formation use
      - Naval Ship use
      -Multiple opponents in a Gladiatorial Arena.

  • @chinatosinthiti3076
    @chinatosinthiti3076 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you very much for presenting this! It's very good, I'm an engineer and a beginner in blacksmithing, sword collecting and martial arts. Further studying on this will be very useful!

  • @peterjohnsson557
    @peterjohnsson557 7 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    It is great to see the sword dynamic calculator reaching a wider popularity!
    I am happy to see the idea promoted by fellow enthusiasts of the sword :-)
    One thing I would like to point out, however: it is unfortunate to call the graphs "agility graphs"- The implies that the foremost function of the graphs is to show swords relative agility compared to other swords.
    ou can sure read this out from graphs, but that will lead to "this sword is better than that sword" discussions.
    Vincent and I made an effort to develop this tool so that it did not favour one characteristic over another but rather to show handling characteristics that are balancing each other.
    It would be better to use the proper name, which is "Sword Dynamic Graph" (SDG-profile?) ;-)
    To get a good idea of a sword´s handling properties it is important to consider the pros and cons of each aspect shown in the graph. A sword with great agility will be quick to put in motion and allow for speed of attack. A sword with less agility will be difficult to stop. Low agility in the hilt region might make for a strong defence against coming blows.
    -There is more to this than might first meet the eye (or mind...) -
    So, please, avoid using the term "Agility Graph" since that creates a flawed expectation and the wrong conclusions. The graphs are as far as possible objective illustrations of the dynamic properties of swords.
    You can absolutely draw conclusions wether a sword will be a good weapon and behave in a way that is purposeful to a certain type of swordsmanship and fighting situation, but it is not only about agility.
    :-)
    Keep the kettle broiling!
    I love to see the discussion and questions about this coming.
    -Thanks!
    :-)

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Thanks for the additional information Peter. Glad to see people who made this tool aviable to the public clarifying some things.

  • @madichelp0
    @madichelp0 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Well are you going to put up agility numbers for your swords? Or is it something you can't do on your own?

  • @markgraham6127
    @markgraham6127 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    A few years later, but excellent information. Thank you. I will try and provide a graph with any swords I make in the future.

  • @RockerMarcee96
    @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +30

    The ratio of the cones matter most, with a rapier the handle cone will be small but the blade cone will be huge proportionally.

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +13

      From what I and fellow redditors have measured we have found that in my case my practice blunt made by Regenyei is more agile than that of the Cheness Katana (type 12 iaido blade) of my friend.
      Redditors also measured a lot of albions, would like to see more input.
      www.reddit.com/r/SWORDS/comments/63ly4w/weapon_dynamics_computer_by_vincent_le_chevalier/

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

      This reddit thread is awesome!

    • @wiggalama
      @wiggalama 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      High Master Johannes Lichtenauer "Iaido" katana? Ethos lost already.

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      www.chenessinc.com/tenchi.htm
      This.
      Actually this is made out of better materials compared to traditionally made ones, however I don't know if it handles like a nihonto.

    • @wiggalama
      @wiggalama 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      High Master Johannes Lichtenauer Nihontos vary dramatically in quality from the late 1300s onward. Its the point of balance and edge geometry. Iaido was used in close quarters or against someone who was close and hadn't drawn his sword. iaido doesn't work against kenjutsu. try an mc 3035 or 3032 katana. they are about 1060 steel and high quality,specially for the price. i prefer mine to my tinker long sword even.

  • @UnHellequined
    @UnHellequined 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome tool. Going to go check the video series for all the details soon.
    However, as a mechanical engineer I would caution against using these charts religiously. They won't account for context, or your particular grip, strength, hand size and so on. They might tell you where the sweet spot is in terms of your own sword's mass and speed, but that can't account for the type of target it connects with and how elastic the resulting collision is.
    So absolutely, this looks to be a great way to get a far better visualization of a sword's handling character than we have has up until now, and I agree having something like this from manufacturers would be awesome. But as always with a tool like this, don't rely on it as your only source of information.

  • @LeviAEthan512
    @LeviAEthan512 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I modelled a blade in Blender. I have no idea if it would perform well. This calculator is great motivation to finish the rest of it

    • @duchessskye4072
      @duchessskye4072 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      I also modeled a blade in blender. It took me 10 mins. It was horrible.
      Then I made a sword. It took me 30 mins. It was OK

  • @sharpestbulb
    @sharpestbulb 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    rather than comparing existing swords, i like that this could be used in the design process. that holds much greater potential

  • @mykls8712
    @mykls8712 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    That final image though. The exact intended conceptual innovative purpose for shields.

  • @bobdrenan4402
    @bobdrenan4402 7 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Hmm sounds like the next logical step would be to use an optimisation algorithm with it

    • @tompatterson1548
      @tompatterson1548 4 ปีที่แล้ว

      so a point of ballance at the handle seems to be pretty good...

  • @killiberke
    @killiberke 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    So how did Aragorn's sword do on the graph? Did you check that?

  • @robertfaucher3750
    @robertfaucher3750 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's my birthday. This is a good video

  • @edi9892
    @edi9892 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    There are two more aspects of swords, that haven't been covered:
    *vibrational nodes:* when you hit your blade, it will vibrate. You can only transfer energy efficiently, when you hit with nodes, that stand still during vibration.
    *flexing:* practice swords and poor replicas tend to bend mostly at the tip making stabbing near impossible.

  • @Archaeopteryx128
    @Archaeopteryx128 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You speak like an engineer.
    My compliments!

  • @ripperman25
    @ripperman25 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    15:25 where can I buy that flamberge? I really want a flamberge but they seem hard to find :/

  • @kaizen5023
    @kaizen5023 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Five years later, I'm disappointed this hasn't caught on more! The 2nd edition of Peter Johnsonn's book, "The Sword Form and Thought" is out! Peter collaborated with the maker of the Weapon Dynamics Computer (calculator) mentioned in this video. So that is pretty high profile coverage, maybe we can get museums on board!

  • @vlogdemon
    @vlogdemon 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is also a useful tool for world builders/story writers - to be able to test how effective a sword would be before writing down its canon measurements

  • @circlingoverland4364
    @circlingoverland4364 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Looking forward to trying this analysis on my Chassepot bayonet. I love the way that sword feels.

  • @mattsmith2247
    @mattsmith2247 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'd love to get this going. What resources to do use to shop for swords, Shad?

  • @RJLpt
    @RJLpt 5 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Make game devs on board with this.

  • @tobiashagstrom4168
    @tobiashagstrom4168 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Seems cool. I agree that there should always be good information on sold products(especially expensive ones), this kind of info seems like it'd be nifty.

  • @ga5712
    @ga5712 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm having trouble seeing the vibration nodes on the hilt. Can you describe the best way to observe this effect. I'm assuming from the descriptions that the pommel is lightly held and the blade struck?

  • @maksim3722
    @maksim3722 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    What sword is displayed at 5:20? Thanks in advance!

  • @TacDyne
    @TacDyne 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best sword is a great sword custom built to the wielder. I have more time behind the weapon than anyone else alive, with practical combat application spanning over 28 years (had to stop due to my shoulders literally wearing out).
    Here are the dimensions I've used when constructing them for people.
    Handle: 5 hands.
    Quillions: 2 fingers high at center and roughly 14" - 16" in length.
    Ricasso: 3 hands. While this is very long for a ricasso, it works quite well.
    Lugs: 3" protruding from each side of the blade.
    Blade: Enough length to make the final weapon total reach the wielder's eyebrows, or as tall as the wielder wishes.

  • @fabulous_finn7810
    @fabulous_finn7810 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Hope you enjoyed General Conference!

  • @skypecaptain
    @skypecaptain 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    How would a better cutting ability of a curved vs. straight saber be calculated? Could the program account for forward curved forward heavy blades like Kukris for example?

  • @zacharycrosier9296
    @zacharycrosier9296 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Please, where can I find a sword like the one at 0:09?

    • @follower9698
      @follower9698 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Look up Albion Knecht Kriegmesser

  • @wolvez28
    @wolvez28 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Was the mount and blade theme just going on in the backround?

  • @sovietcupcakes328
    @sovietcupcakes328 7 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Huh, just finished watching the video. Kinda disappointed you didn't input a katana for comparison since your video title included Katana vs Longsword. Interesting nonetheless.

  • @markphillips6763
    @markphillips6763 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I'm certain that the Balance is referring to the ratio of blade weight/length to that of the weight/versatility of the hilt.

  • @tompatterson1548
    @tompatterson1548 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    There were duels with swords in:
    April 14, 1920, Manila
    1921, Italy
    May 13, 1922, Milan
    1924, Portugal
    April 21, 1967, Paris
    1994, Battle
    Not so obsolete as you may think.

  • @HebaruSan
    @HebaruSan 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thomas's videos about this are intriguing, but to confirm that this is a useful tool, I'd like to see a presentation interpreting one of the graphs, as in statements like, "The width here means this sword is good/bad at X." Or especially diagnosing problems. I tried adding 1 kg to some sample graphs and it just got a bit narrower, not the easiest thing to spot.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Indeed. The overall weight of the sword should always be considered when looking at the graphs, especially the effective mass line.

  • @joeyripcho6424
    @joeyripcho6424 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shad! Would you be able to provide a agility graph for your imperious larp sword?

  • @pringlesdude1467
    @pringlesdude1467 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hi Shad, I am looking to forge a sword and I was wondering if could show me a design that would feel and handle extremely well, can cut nicely, at the same time look amazing and cool, like a sword a knight would use, maybe an arming sword or a long sword (you don't have to, I'm just putting it out there)

  • @deadknight1402
    @deadknight1402 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Mass: 816.46
    Hilt Extremity: 0.00
    Grip Reference: 30.00
    Blade Extremity: 100.00
    Center of Gravity: 40.00
    Lever Reference: 5.00
    Hilt node: 18.00
    Blade node: 70.00
    Action P. 1: 0.00
    Pivot P. 1: 80.00
    Action P. 2: 5.00
    Pivot P. 2: 50.00
    I literally just made this.

  • @kanonierable
    @kanonierable 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Wow! This is amazing, must get into experimenting, no time to loose!
    PS: Thanks a lot shady knight of diverse, interesting stuff thingies!

  • @ryankunst668
    @ryankunst668 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    You mentioned decapitating opponents, as well as having the sword only make it most of the way through the neck, which brought up a question I have. In pop culture you often see someone use a sword to take off an opponent's head with one swing, while the opponent is in a standing position. The headless opponent then falls to the ground. Is that actually possible? I feel like the opponents body would give out and collapse, or the force of the strike so close to the top of their body would knock them down, before the sword made it all the way through their neck.

    • @MikeKnell2884
      @MikeKnell2884 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      That would depend on the speed of the sword and the angle it strikes at. A sharp sword will only have to defeat the spine as it is the only hard part of the neck. Everything else is rather easily sliced.

    • @ryankunst668
      @ryankunst668 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      So it could be done then? I always assumed that it was another unrealistic thing movies and games did. Like duel wielding, or spinning and back flipping through the battle.

    • @jackbaxter2223
      @jackbaxter2223 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      The muscles would also take quite a bit of force to cut through, so not only would you need an extremely sharp sword, you would also need a lot of strength as well as hitting the neck at the right angle. I'm pretty certain you couldn't do it one-handed. I think it's almost completely 'Hollywood fighting'.

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I am pretty certain you could do it one-handed but with a sword designed for two-hands is certainly easier. Now let's see the actual chances, cutting somebody's throat is easy, cutting the head off, well that's hard, your opponent moves, the muscles in the neck are quite tense and the spine is quite thick.

    • @jackbaxter2223
      @jackbaxter2223 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I mean that i think it would be technically possible but unfeasibly difficult.

  • @seanpearce7510
    @seanpearce7510 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Thank you for that link. That will come in handy. I do think all manufacturers should include one with their swords. I also had a question about your comment on the Aragorn sword. Would the persons size factor in to that? I have always thought the sword felt and performed well for a wall hanger and always wanted to try that design with a real blade.

  • @ColonelRPG
    @ColonelRPG 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Shad, you can use cards (when editing the video on TH-cam) to add links during the video, now that annotations are gone.

  • @blahblahsen1142
    @blahblahsen1142 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    as a "retired" swordsmith, i still think a good bit of the effectiveness of a weapon depends on the fighting style of the user, so there can never be a perfectly quantifiable simulation model to rate a blades perfection, because humans are imperfect and a good sword balances our weaknesses, however, this chart would greatly improve the guesswork. even if it just allows you to narrow down your options and rate similar designs its incredibly helpful and i wish i had this back when i was making swords. you cant say an English long-sword is better or worse than a katana because both swords accentuate the fighting style of the culture and variations in human body will change the scale of what is needed...but if you prefer the English long-sword and have an idea on your optimal length for your size, you could stack up a bunch of similar long-swords and find the best of the category, or if you prefer a katana for its fighting style, you could compare katanas and see which is superior. i will also add that the material quality is a HUGE factor. the difference between a quality made damascus blade and a quality modern monosteel blade may be trivial, but a perfectly balanced blade that breaks or bends easily is still just lively garbage. i's take a slightly off-balance properly tempered steel sword over a perfectly tuned and balanced aluminum or cast iron sword. so that is often harder to measure. yes, you can state the specific grade of steel and hardness on a chart, but heat-treating is an art and its imperfect and requires a skilled hand to compensate. so even good steel made in a proper shape can be glass or butter if the heat-treating is fubar. i once made 2 swords out of leaf springs from the same bundle, exactly the same grade of steel, but one was differential tempered and the other was done with an experiment method i was trying out. same exact steel and maker, same exact theoretical hardness. the one i did traditionally is on my shelf today as a beautiful blade, the experimental one broke in half on the first big swing. welded it together and blended it enough to be a wall-hanger but its essentially useless otherwise. so even with a chart of geometry and a specific grade of steel stamped on the tang, a blacksmith with a bad day who wasn't paying attention could result in a very expensive failure.

  • @TrueNomadSkies
    @TrueNomadSkies 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I heard about this recently, but always assumed it was too complicated for a dummy like me to create myself. Really cool.

  • @tylerseeberger2104
    @tylerseeberger2104 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hello Shad,
    I really enjoy your videos. They have given me answers to questions I didn't know I had. I am curious, though, if you've worked with weapons outside of medieval times. Secifically, Roman weapons and armament, and cutlass, the last "common sword" prior to advanced firearms. What are your thoughts, general or otherwise, on these subjects?

  • @JimGiant
    @JimGiant 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Love this work, I'l see what I can do for making graphs of the swords I own. Would be interesting if the same thing could be done for cutting/thrusting performance.

  • @Durandalite
    @Durandalite 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Could someone explain to me exactly what the cones represent? From what I can see in the frame showing the messer, longsword and rapier, it seems to be showing the rotational inertia, which would explain why the rapier's cone is narrower. Though, if the graph is relative to the sword's weight, I can see how the rapier is "less agile" because it takes more energy to move something heavier, but I do not accept the "bigger cone is better" notion presented in this video.

    • @r.hyland2986
      @r.hyland2986 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      From what I understand. There are two sectors (cones). One for the hilt and one for the blade. If you look closely at the rapier you'll see a very small one around the pommel area. Taking the absolute length of the curve with the messer it looks like the sector (cone) on the hilt would go into the sector (cone) on the blade about 3 times. With the longsword somewhere between 3 and 4. But with the Rapier it looks to be about 6 maybe 7. So that tiny flick with a rapier produces a turning effect about 6 to 7 the distance covered at the hilt's end. Movement with the rapiers hilt seems which is either a third more or even twice as responsive as the other two. However the the other two benefit more from the leverage provide from their longer handles so providing he entered the same figures I assume that it takes similar amount of effort to move those blades the distances shown.
      So the cones represent the level of energy that is used to move the blade and how far that energy will move the blade but the ratios between the sector's (cones') curved edge determine how responsive the blade is to movement with the hilt.
      I could be misinterpreting this but I think that's how it work. My advice get someone who knows what's going on.

    • @Durandalite
      @Durandalite 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Ah, I think I see what you mean. If I'm getting this right, it's kind of like the handle sector is the amount of leverage you have on the weapon, and the blade sector is the effect that leverage produces. So since the ratio of the sectors for the rapier are as such, it requires little energy from your hand to transition the point a great deal, while with the longsword you get less point transition per the amount of energy you put into it. Does that sound right?
      Not sure if the actual size of the cones matters when comparing different weapon graphs, but if I had to guess, I'd say the longsword graphic describes it will have more pressure in the bind (bigger blade cone) than the rapier, thanks to that extra leverage (bigger handle cone). I'll need a second opinion on that one though.

  • @samuelcarley7245
    @samuelcarley7245 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    4:10 If you aren't feeling as energetic one day, do flourishes till you sweat. Breaking a sweat always helps me feel energetic. It's worth a shot, and I would love to hear your observations. I've noticed people seem to react to me differently after I exercise, than when I don't... It's like I go super sayain, and my hair even stands after the sweat drys... not that I push it straight back, or anything... I don't keep sweat out of my eyes.

  • @18632ewa8
    @18632ewa8 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    The best sword fighting style Japanese Italian or something else? Would you prefer to dual like the Italians did in the Renaissance. On the Tokugawa Period Of Japan?

  • @BGVitor
    @BGVitor 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish Shad could do a similar video on the proper use of heater shield, curiously you dont't really find that subject mentioned around.

  • @Archine115
    @Archine115 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    If you are planning on continuing your Skyrim castle reviews I'd like to here your input on Windhelm because I believe it is a good castle but do not know as much as you

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'll always be doing those fun castle reviews but I have to make room for some other content now and then ^_^

  • @SoméDjata
    @SoméDjata 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    With all of the advances in metallurgy since medieval times, is steal still the best metal for making swords? Wouldn't there be metals that are both lighter and stronger(ex. titanium)? Or is there some other quailities of steal that make it superior despite that?

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Lighter =/= better unless you want a sword that is thrust only, like a smallsword.
      Anyway pure titanium is too weak, titanium alloys are brittle as glass, you cannot make it in the proportions of a sword etc. Practically steel is still the best material and it will remain for quite a long time as it seems.

    • @ivaldi13
      @ivaldi13 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      There are plenty of elements that occur in a laboratory setting that would be theoretically better or even outright, objectively, absolutely should be better, but steel has a monopoly on practicality for its cost efficiency. You can't exactly go down to your local smithy and get some \transparent aluminum/, but iron is everywhere, and smelting that into steel, and even going the extra mile to filter that down to the good stuff, stainless steel, is not too much of a hassle. There's an art to it and all that, but compared to forming and shooting just the right lasers in just the right ways in just the right settings and doing so safely, smelting steel has all the complexity of baking bread.
      You did specifically refer to advances in metallurgy, not just the outer boundaries of what may some day be possible, but my point is that you can pretty well copy and paste that line of reasoning across all sorts of developments. The advances that you are referring to are certainly worth looking into, and they may very well be the future of high-end sword collections . . . but you must sell according to the market, so for the sake of most collectors' wallets, steel will dominate for the foreseeable future.

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      For the sake of arguement, we don't have a replacement for steel even if it wasn't cost effective in terms of cut and thrust swords or pure cutting swords, for pure thrusters maybe. But steel offers a pretty good compromise between everything you need to consider when making a sword. Now modern steels like L6 or 6150 are leagues better than historical steels.
      The best thing is as long as you use steel you can make the same designs as we did before. If you would want to use another material it has to be something radically different. With light materials the sword needs to be huge to have the same effectiveness, with heavy materials you need a small weapon to handle it. Then there comes toughness, edge retention and all the other nasty stuff into play.

    • @mjtechnoviking44
      @mjtechnoviking44 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Sundiata Keita of course it has to be the great Nippon cock that's been stroked over 1000 times

    • @ivaldi13
      @ivaldi13 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      What? No one was being a Japanophile here. Where did that come from?

  • @AvengerofWarcraft
    @AvengerofWarcraft 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Unrelated: if a wizard picked up a sword, what kind would be best for him/her? An arming sword/rapier, a bastard sword or a longsword? Personally, I'd say a one-hander if only because that would leave him with a free hand for stuff like fireballs (like the sword and pistol combo), but...

  • @deeem2166
    @deeem2166 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Awesome tool, but as noted by others, what about thrust oriented swords. I think I hear an echo in the distance, could it be "Context" lol. Seriously though, it would be cool to apply the method to show information on suitability for thrusting. A horizontal thrust oriented graph maybe, or something that showed flexibility? Definitely going to check out the calculator, thanks for the tip!
    Keep up the good work.

  • @elevcraftvi7554
    @elevcraftvi7554 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    Which sword is zacian holding

  • @ThePanguinator
    @ThePanguinator 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yo, Shad. What are the best means to contact you if one has a suggestion regarding Cogent Roleplay?

  • @jerrylove865
    @jerrylove865 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So which is "better"? An Epee or a Claymore?

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      As long as we are talking about rotation along an axis, the claymore is more agile.

  • @croatianwarmaster7872
    @croatianwarmaster7872 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    145cm Longsword with a 44 inch blade,just at the limit of a longsword but it ia not a greatsword,can be worn at the hip,spiked slightly curved large crossguard great for defending the hand and using the murder stroke.has a waisted grip and albion ringeck pommel,has a diamond crossection for regidity in the thrust but is made of spring steel so it won't break on impact,has a fully tapered blade to be able to penetrate mail armor,also thrusting is more lethal and more important than cutting and a sword that is better at thrusting is more agile and has better point control,and since it is a longsword and has blade model like albion talhoffer it still has plenty of power in the cut.also has side rings for hand protection and sword cathers like a main gauce dagger on its crossguard,and also a sword catcher on the flat of the blade like a scottish claymore.There you go,a perfect sword.

  • @danielfaulkenbury7700
    @danielfaulkenbury7700 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Is there a community page somewhere that has these agility graphs submitted by the public for each manufactured sword? It probably wouldn't be in every manufacturer's best interest to post there own. If there was a page where owners can submit their own graphs, It would be helpful for prospective buyers.

  • @realzire
    @realzire 7 ปีที่แล้ว +51

    The Knights Longsword for the win!

    • @realzire
      @realzire 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      Just letting all the Katana fans know ;)

    • @cynt4416
      @cynt4416 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      So...how many katana user you have killed using that long sword of yours? I'd love to know that.

    • @haydenbrown8387
      @haydenbrown8387 7 ปีที่แล้ว +5

      Tuấn Cường Nghiêm 36

    • @realzire
      @realzire 7 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      A few in For Honor. But otherwise, I'm pretty sure killing is illegal.

    • @haydenbrown8387
      @haydenbrown8387 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Zire nah breh, irl. I don't play four honour

  • @alexanderm8880
    @alexanderm8880 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Given that the swords for LOTR were made by a proficient smith, do you think the problem is more in the reproductions rather than the overall design?

  • @horvathbenedek3596
    @horvathbenedek3596 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Interesting, but the graph lacks information. What does it show? moment of inertia? Also, does this take into account distal taper? If so, what function does it use to calculate the second moment of inertia? In other words, how does it know the blade geometria? What happens if I put a sine wave into the distal taper? Will it be able to calculate it? Also, the nodes are calculated assuming the tip and the pommel are stationary. But what if I grab the sword? How will it dampen a supposed blow to the side of the blade?

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Nem szükséges neki, mert a lengéspontok és a rezgéspontok elegendőek minden számításhoz.
      A rezgéspontok mozgás állapotától függetlenek, felfüggesztés állapotától is függetlenek, az adott test térbeli tulajdonságaitól függ.
      Ha megfogod a kardot a rezgéspontok nem fognak arrébb kerülni, a grafikon minden szükséges információt megmutat, persze nem árt előtte elolvasni a tutorialt, hogy mi mit jelent.

    • @horvathbenedek3596
      @horvathbenedek3596 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      High Master Johannes Lichtenauer Kétségtelen, a pontok nem változhatnak, de az, hogy hol fogom a kardot, befolyásolja a lengés csillapítását. Azt nem ln fogom megmondani, hogy mi az ideális, de pl. ha a nyugalmi pontban fogod, akkor a rezgés sokkal lassabban hal el, míg ha a maximális kitérésnél, akkor a lengés less gyorsabban csillapodik, de jó eséllyel a vibráció kitépi a kezedből a fegyvert. Erre kéne egy diagramot készíteni, hogy lássuk, hol lesz a kitérés még kezelhető. Persze ez mondjuk komplexebb számítás, meg függ az ember tömegétől, marokerejétől, stb...
      De mondjuk ezt pont neked fölöslegesen mondom. Csak gondoltam kifejezésre juttatom hiányomat a helyes jelölésrendszert illetően.
      Azért jó erre magyarokat látni :)

    • @RockerMarcee96
      @RockerMarcee96 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Horváth Benedek persze az igaz amit mondasz. Mivel ez a modell elvileg emberfüggetlen ezért ilyeneket nem tartalmaz. Egyébként más célja nincs, mint az hogy leírja, hogyan mozog maga a kard adott síkon illetve ad egy tömegeloszlást. Az utóbbival kapcsolatban jó lenne lemérni egy 'leaf blade'-t mivel abban kellene látni egy kiugrást a grafikonban.

  • @B0SSBATTLE
    @B0SSBATTLE 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Hey shad, I'm a new subscriber but love your content man. Have you/would you consider doing a video on castle prisons and oubliettes? Keep up the great work!

  • @Roland3ld
    @Roland3ld 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Here is the usual like, comment, and full watch for engagement metrics.

  • @robertdicke7249
    @robertdicke7249 7 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I wish we were still in the times of common sword play. I wouldn't murder anyone of course but instead of walking around with an hidden pistol you obviously cant spar with I could carry a beautiful sword like its art.
    Yeah sure I technically can now anyway but most people would look at me as a moron, and bad guys with guns defeats the point of arming your self.

  • @gabem4208
    @gabem4208 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    liking the new intro

  • @dard1515
    @dard1515 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Even if retailers don't get onboard with this, all it takes is one person to buy the sword and put up their own agility graph for everyone else.

  • @miguel0n338
    @miguel0n338 5 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've never owned a real sword, but based on the wide range of toy swords I had growing up, I'd say my best sword is at least shaped like a medieval arming sword. I'd prefer a double-edged sword, and LOVE the idea of a sword and kite shield (cuz shields for kids/teens are either little plastic rotellas or cardboard heater shields lol). But then again, factor in the weight of the real thing and I'd probably go with the long sword. I've always loved the katana, but in anything resembling a real fight I think the long sword would be my best choice (unless I don't have armor lol). See, I'm learning something just by watching this awesome channel! :D
    Seriously though, now more than ever I want to get into HEMA. Guess I'll have to get on DuckDuckGo and find out what the sword laws are in my area and if/where there are classes. :)

  • @redstreak1
    @redstreak1 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I've heard of a style of sword called the 'leaf blade' that seems to specialize in hacking. Can you eventually discuss specialized blades like that?

  • @orangesoda4535
    @orangesoda4535 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So....what do you think of Berserk's dragonslayer sword?

  • @JM80-2A
    @JM80-2A 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Can you get these weapons that you speak of in these videos already... it would really help in your explanation...

  • @peacecrafttrue
    @peacecrafttrue 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    Neat. I didn't know there was a calculator. I've been working off "Dynamics of hand-held impact weapons" by George L Turner from 2002 that presents swing leverage and all the math for it as the concept of the "living blade". Mandatory reading for any bladesmith.
    Going forward I'm going to look into how copyrighted the graphs are, I'd love to provide them with each piece.

  • @JohnDavidDunlap
    @JohnDavidDunlap 4 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder what the agility graph would look like for one of michaelcthulhu's swords.

  • @edi9892
    @edi9892 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Can't wait to see Albion vs Arms&Armour vs ATrim

  • @TheCheeseKnees97
    @TheCheeseKnees97 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    this is very interesting, but I came here to see this technology applied. Will you be doing comparisons with this graph? I really did click the video to actually see the comparison you put in the title :/

  • @ebolasoda
    @ebolasoda 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the intro!

  • @Gorebashed
    @Gorebashed 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Does this software actually work? Watched Mathew Jensen using it on his channel and playing with the numbers didn't seem to do anything to the graph.

  • @libertyprime1997
    @libertyprime1997 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Here's the thing though, sure one sword might mathematically be better in balance and cutting ect. but the sword that fits the user in terms of length, grip comfort, and other variable personal factors will still be more effective than the mathematically best sword. So really the only way to judge a sword well is by personal testing for what type best fits you.

  • @hominid92
    @hominid92 7 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Hah! I've been constructing a greatsword for my cosplay and when I saw this, i had to try the tool! With my blade ready, i have had difficulty trying to decide how heavy my hilt and pommel should be and I think this tool (NOT MEANT FOR WOOD AND ALUMINIUM!) might prove useful, even though it's clearly misuse. I got some wonky results on my first try, but they seemed reasonable because my sword feels wonky too! :D

    • @hominid92
      @hominid92 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Unfortunately i don't have any real swords to use as reference.

  • @BenPearson_kd7uiy
    @BenPearson_kd7uiy 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    How good of a sword would a lightsaber be? What sword would it be most similar to?

    • @robertpatter5509
      @robertpatter5509 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      It's a Cut-and-Thrust sword which needs no edge alignment to be effective. Any hit with the energy blade is deadly.
      The style of fighting is important though.
      You can still fence with it. Dooku seems to do that. You can modify the grip angle to make it fit your style more.

  • @PsylomeAlpha
    @PsylomeAlpha 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    personally I think the point where the blade cone starts is more important than the width of the cone, especially when you are talking about thrust centered swords.

  • @unnamednewbie13
    @unnamednewbie13 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    If there is a PDF version of the book shown at 7:18, that would be nice. The thing is rolling for $1,000+ on ebay these days.

  • @ordobravus3229
    @ordobravus3229 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    DO THE REVIEW OF NOVIGRAD AND OXENFURT FROM THE WITCHER 3

  • @bizarreworld2510
    @bizarreworld2510 7 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    This graph might even help Sword makers to make better quality swords

  • @Cretaal
    @Cretaal 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    This is a great tool for figuring out the physical dimensions of any sword, but it's not going to tell you which one is superior. For instance, you consider a superior sword as one with more agility in the wrist (so it sounds) where another considers the longer sword superior, but both swords may go to shit in tight quarters or dense woods. It will help give you a more intimate knowledge of your blade, but it won't tell you how to use it properly and it won't tell you who's is superior in anything but the broadest and most open sense. Use it as a tool to figure out which weapon suits your learned fighting style if you want to trade to other weapons from other times. Don't try to go all Deadliest Warrior with these graphs... please, people.

  • @danialcourtney5969
    @danialcourtney5969 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    So what I'm seeing is, the mainz pattern Gladius is the best for over all performance. A thrusting blade with the leaf design to give it weight for cuts as well.

    • @danialcourtney5969
      @danialcourtney5969 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Long swords are overrated. Short sword with a shield is much more flexible, and quicker. And as the Romans demonstrated, used with unit tactics, is very powerful. I suppose its not as great in 1v1s. But 1v1s did not decide the fate of nations as often as Army's did

    • @danialcourtney5969
      @danialcourtney5969 7 ปีที่แล้ว

      Yes the Roman's did switch, to accommodate to barbarian troops that was becoming more and more of a majority in the legions. It is also agreed upon that as these changes where made, the legions became weaker. Using less unit tactics, more simple armor, smaller/lighter shields, and less training time. And while your pretty much right about the arming sword. Note that the more bodies packed into a battle field, the less room you have. Therefore the shorter the weapon the better (to a degree).

  • @stevenoconnor3256
    @stevenoconnor3256 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wonder if using two diff types of swords at the same time would make up for the diff weaknesses they both would have had on there own.

  • @drakus40k
    @drakus40k 7 ปีที่แล้ว

    Dangit Shad, you got my hopes up to see the agility charts for sample long swords v katanas.

    • @shadiversity
      @shadiversity  7 ปีที่แล้ว

      To do that I would need some higher quality swords, lol. But this video is more to enable others to do that. There's even a comment thread here with agility graphs for katana and longsword, if you can't find it there's also a reddit thread too.

  • @GenghisVern
    @GenghisVern 6 ปีที่แล้ว

    Curious if Shad has done anything on why the Gladius was so effective for the Romans but disappeared during the dark ages.