Secretariat's Body: Thoroughbreds, Genetics, & Inbreeding
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- In this video, I discuss thoroughbred genetics, inbreeding, and Secretariat. Genetics isn't everything!
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Sources
Bower, M. A., Campana, M. G., Whitten, M., Edwards, C. J., Jones, H., Barrett, E., ... & Binns, M. (2011). The cosmopolitan maternal heritage of the Thoroughbred racehorse breed shows a significant contribution from British and Irish native mares. Biology letters, 7(2), 316-320.
Bower, M. A., McGivney, B. A., Campana, M. G., Gu, J., Andersson, L. S., Barrett, E., ... & Hill, E. W. (2012). The genetic origin and history of speed in the Thoroughbred racehorse. Nature communications, 3(1), 643.
Higgins, A.J. 2006. From Ancient Greece to modern Athens: 3000 years of doping in competition horses. J. vet. Pharmacol. Therap. 29 (Suppl. 1): 1-10.
Hill, E. W., Bradley, D. G., Al‐Barody, M., Ertugrul, O., Splan, R. K., Zakharov, I., & Cunningham, E. P. (2002). History and integrity of thoroughbred dam lines revealed in equine mtDNA variation. Animal genetics, 33(4), 287-294.
Hill, E. W., Stoffel, M. A., McGivney, B. A., MacHugh, D. E., & Pemberton, J. M. (2022). Inbreeding depression and the probability of racing in the Thoroughbred horse. Proceedings of the Royal Society B, 289(1977), 20220487.
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By Dell Hancock - Original publication: 1970s conformation photographImmediate source: secretariatcom...., Fair use, en.wikipedia.o...
By PLoS genetics - Found online at genetics.plosjo..., the journal is open source so the images are also, work is by US government agency. Transferred from en.wikipedia by User:Moez., CC BY 2.5, commons.wikime...
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Secretariat's heart weighed around 22 pounds and his rival in the Triple Crown races a horse named Sham had a heart that weighed 18 pounds. Secretariat ran the Kentucky Derby in a record time of 1:59 2/5 with Sham finishing second in a final time of 1:59 4/5 in the year 1973. Those are the two fastest times for the Kentucky Derby. Sham may not have won the race but he showed how great his heart was as well.
I feel kind of bad for Sham. In any other year he could very possibly be a Triple Crown winner. He was just born at the wrong time.
It really is awesome that most of the time when people talk about how great Secretariat was, they also include Sham in the conversation. Those 2 incredible horses were forever linked with a great history. One could not have been as great without the other pushing them to be better.
@@johnmcafee6140 Agreed, Sham was a spectacular horse, who got eclipsed by Secretariat.
Sham had that big heart gene as well, due to having the same damsire, but unfortunately Sham's was not quite as big as Big Red's. In any other year, I think he would have won the Triple Crown.
“In any other year” lmao SMDH
If you search “define thoroughbred” you should get a picture of Secretariat
You should but he is more of the exception rather than the norm.
Now That, would not be inappropriate...at all! ;-)
Absolutely. Secretariat was the epitome of the perfect TB.
Secretariat's oversized heart was, actually, a genetic trait, not just a fluke. It's a "flaw" that runs through his mother's (Somethingroyal) line. As for why none of Secretariat's children inherited it from him, is because it is only passed from females to their offspring. Well, sort of. As a point of conjecture, while Secretariat could not pass on his oversized heart to his sons, he did, in fact, sire quite exceptional brood mares.
Right, he inherited it from Princequillo, his mother's sire, I believe. It's been called the x-factor.
It isn't just from dam to offspring, it is X linked recessive, meaning it is on the X chromosome and recessive. Males only get the one X chromosome so if it has that allele, it will be displayed in their phenotype like it was in him. A mare would have to get it from her dam and sire to display it. Had he been bred back to his dam, the offspring would have had a 50/50 chance of having the same condition as him, regardless of gender.
All of his daughters carried it, which is why he is known as such a great damsire.
I am not convinced an unusually large heart is very beneficial. Athletes usually run out of oxygen because they do not have enough myoglobin in their muscles to take the available oxygen from the hemoglobin in the blood. Not because their heart is too small too move sufficient amounts of oxygen rich blood to the muscles. Deep sea diving mamals have so much myoglobin in their muscles they can hold their breath for about 30 minutes. But that does not mean they have freakishly large hearts. Sometimes a big heart is bad. I think Arnold Schwarzeneger had surgery for left ventricular hypertophy, where the muscle wall of the left ventricle is too thick so there is not enough room in the ventricle for the blood.
You may very well be correct. However, when a horse has a heart that is almost twice the normal size and wins the Belmont Stakes by 31 lengths, setting a record time that still stands fifty years later? I'd say, in this instance, size does matter.
He passed it on only to his daughters but none of his sons. Then when his daughters were bred they would pass it on to their babies.
That was actually nothing new but was ok. A few things about Secretariat, I believe that of all the greatest horses if you could go back and check their hearts you would find they all had extra large hearts (the big heart gene). There are other factors that come into play also. Like body structure, leg size, body conformation, leg and hip placement, stride, intelligence, and possibly a couple big ones you can't predict or measure is desire and competitive drive. I've seen it said by experts that great horses have usually have at least one, two or three of these special traits. But the one thing that sets Secretariat apart from all other horses is that he had them all. Which is thought to be virtually impossible until he showed up. At the same time he had Sham to run against. Without Sham he would not have put up the race times he did because he would not have had to run as fast as he did. So having a repeat of Secretariate is never expected again. But it could happen. Even with Sham, Shams rider said Secetariat did what he did very easily. Shockingly. Turcott said he never asked Secretariat for speed or to run faster, that all he did was let him out and let him go. So we don't know what he could have really done. Turcott said even in the Belmont he could have gone a lot faster but when Sham dropped back Secetariat just went back to galloping, not really even racing. and that he was not even tired at the end and could have done the entire 1 1/2 miles again probably just as fast. He was a perfectly 100% God made freak of nature. and we are blessed to have been here to see it. I wish we knew What times he could have put up if he ran them all full out. might have ruined horse racing forever though.
Very thorough and astute observation. Only one disagreement. He had all the factors needed for a great racer, yes. Freak of nature? No. He was intentional! A miracle! Which is why he failed at producing any like him. Only the Great Creator could do that! Only the Great Creator can produce miracles!
why then if genetics is ALL so important, and its NOT the only thing (HINT epigenetics), was his FULL sister, THE BRIDE, so mediocre? Like all the clones of Ribot, Northern Dancer etc, couldn't beat a fat man down a hill?
To your point on the 'big heart gene' - I read recently that Sham was discovered post-mortem also to have had an overly large heart (not quite Secretariat-sized), in the 15-lb range. It makes sense that the great ones might have similar cardiac traits. Sham, by the way, was a great horse who just happened to be born in the wrong year...he could have might easily been a Triple Crown winner in his own right, depending on the vagaries of the prevailing competition.
@@robertseip210 I contacted an equ9ne geneticist qa the vet school at Texas A & M and asked about the "evidence' for this gene. I got a ONE WORD answer; FICTION
There is no single gene for a large heart, and there is no evidence that any of the genes which influence the cardio are x-chromosome related. In addition, a large heart is not always an optimal heart. You can have a large thin-walled heart, which tends to be a plodding one. Large hearts also don't work well for sprinters who are better suited by smaller, stronger walled cardios.
Secretariat's mother, Something Royal passed on to him the big heart genes. His father was Bold Ruler, who had speed. A big heart for endurance plus speed, and sturdy from legs, and you have a winning machine. Plus size wise, he was a very big horse, a much bigger girth. He just had it all, and he loved running. Probably the records he hold won't be broken.
Wanna see a real champion? A real "race" horse?Look up Kelso. Red was a great 3yo but Kelso was a great horse!! A record 5 time horse of the year which until today STILL stands!! 63 starts 39 wins world records on both surfaces! Carried weights that were not carried when Secretariat ran! Red was a dud at stud and rumour had it back then that he was puposely euthanized for insurance money! Kelso was far and away the greatest "race" horse of all time and if he was not gelded he would like red have stopped and gone to stud!!
Greatness equals excellence over time!!
@@kenkal1829 No one loves Kelso more than me. As good as he was, I don't think he had Secretariat's top end, or Dr Fager's for that matter. But at distances over a mile and a quarter, he was next to impossible to beat (His mile and a half time was even better than big red's even if it was on grass). And if he hadn't been gelded, he never would have raced 9 years. Long live Kelso!
@@mikeblast7507 That's what made Kelly the greatest "RACE" horse! When Kelso ran he took on all comers. Carried weights you don't see anymore. Big Red was great but his 16 races lifetime makes him the greatest 3yo maybe but that's it!!
@@kenkal1829 He's a little more than that. No other horse ever had all three TC records. Yes, only three-year-olds run those races, but his mile-and-half time on dirt is still the record for all horses regardless of age by two full seconds. And barring injury, he only would have gotten better.
@@mikeblast7507 Not only that Mike but those horses did not carry the weight that Kelly did! Winning 5 consecutive Horse of the Year awards will NEVER be done again!
Magnificent is a word that must be reserved for something like Secretariat. He was in every way special.
There is something different about him. Even back in 1972 and 1973, and still today, I get teary-eyed and choked up just thinking about him and what he did. And I don't do that about anything else. Not even deaths in my family. Will be nice to see him some day.
I agree. If you are involved in racing, it is hard not to get romantic about Big Red. Because he was so good, and in such an innocent time for the game. Yes, we have had Justify, American Pharoah, and Arrogate since; but that trainer is now banned from racing in Kentucky. So the performances have been comparable, but it is just not the same. If you want to compare racing dominance, look up Frankel or Black Caviar. Awesome, but not American. It is partly what Secretariat did, but also the way we remember it, and the perceived cocoon of virtue and decency, which I can not prove, because I was 3 years old, and even TV sets were like 10 inches and black and white back then for many of us. Best wishes.
What a wonderful tribute, I never thought of the possibility of seeing Secretariat someday. Thank you giving me that hope. I am terry eyed as I type this
That's an amazing, incredible thought, the idea of seeing this great horse some day. I sure hope it's true..
And an unfortunate side effect of breeding for lots of muscle is thin bones that break easily. And they run them far too young...
Eight horses broke down in the run up to the Kentucky Derby. I strongly believe that inbreeding and a smaller gene pool is the cause of so many breakdowns. If you don't allow "new blood," so-to-speak, into the gene pool the gene pool becomes weaker, not stronger.
The way race horses are raised , trained, and raced have a greater influence on breakdowns than inbreeding. They used to have a off season in the past, now they race year round.
IMHO, the greatest race horse that ever lived.
Fascinating thank you. I knew Northern Dancer was so influential but I didn't know why. I'm old enough to have watched Secretariat, and my grandfather saw Man O War.
Most winning horses today have Northern Dancer in their pedigree 2-8 times by the 7th generation away(64 couplings)
Development in genetic research was "gender imprinting". Gender imprinting suggests strongly that at least some genes behave very differently, depending on the gender of the parent the were inherited from. This radical notion flies in the face of conventional theory which had assumed that a gene works the same mechanical way no matter which parent it came from...
This was followed by a lecture from Doug Antczak, a professor in veterinary medicine from Cornell University. Antczak was not a big student of Thoroughbred bloodlines, but even to his eye it was clear that the sons of Secretariat had enjoyed very little success at stud, while his daughters were among the best broodmares in the sport. Combining this with the emerging study of "gender imprinting" (first observed in mules and mice), Antczak coined the phrase "The Secretariat Effect" to show how a great broodmare-sire may be a rather poor sire-of-sires.
A "paternally imprinted gene" would be one that is turned "off" in the offspring of Secretariat's sons, but "on" in the offspring of his daughters. When this is a key gene, the offspring of his sons will be disappointing, while offspring of his daughters may be outstanding. While the likes of Secretariat, Alydar, Affirmed, Buckpasser, Hoist the Flag,
Double Jay, Sir Gallahad III, Discovery, War Admiral, and Chaucer all saw their daughters enjoy phenomenal success as broodmares, each had few if any sons excel at stud...
On the other hand, stallions like Phalaris, Nearco, Nasrullah, Turn-to, Bold Ruler, In Reality, and Northern Dancer have all seen their sons enjoy unusual success at stud, while their daughters had far less success as broodmares...
It has been noted recently that inbreeding to Northern Dancer through two of his daughters has had very little success, while inbreeding through two of his sons has been enormously successful. This has also been the case with inbreeding to Nasrullah and Raise a Native,
and I imagine that "gender imprinting plays a large role here...
Only 3 or 4 of Secretariat’s daughters had a big impact on the breed and he had hundreds of progeny. He only led the broodmare sire list once even though the best mares were sent to him.
Nikolaas, A strong mare and a strong sire will be in
conflict and it is possible for the produce of one sex
to have been adversely affected in its potential, even
neutralized, by the adversely influencing strength of
the parent of the other sex. When a great race horse goes to stud,
you would like that stallion to reproduce himself. In
such a case, one would like the mare to act as a sack
or a carrier, with the stallion’s genes dominating
over the mare’s genes. Wouldn’t it have been wonderful
if Secretariat or Man 0’ War sired a son or daughter
which exhibited the exact race track abilities as they
themselves did?
The reverse is also true. When a great race mare goes
to the breeding shed, one would like her to reproduce
herself. But great race mares are usually bred to
prepotent and dominant stallions. which may create
somewhat of a genetic conflict. This could be one
reason why many great race mares do not become great
producers, It might also be true that being a great
race mare and being a great broodrnare result from
different qualities of aptitudes in a mare. PS www.patriciamcqueen.com/book
To me Secretariat was perfect in size in color in confirmation, an attitude, and racing ability, and personality, and star power
I never read or saw anything about Secretariat’s dam (other than her name), but there was a study I read about the importance of a dam’s status in the herd. It took place too many years ago for me to remember. Researchers followed the careers of all foals from a few stud farms through their first year of racing. They had made note of health and character of the dams and their foals, the weaning age, training, etc. A big take-away was that offspring of dominant mares were more likely to win evenly matched races.
I know from watching mares interact for over 50 years that often all a dominant mare has to do in order to be first walking through the gate to the stable at night is to give the other horses a “look”. They will stop and let her lead the way. She’s first to the best grass, first to the water trough, and stands under the shadiest tree. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if, together with their genetics for athletic abilities, most of those great race horses also had dams that bossed the herd.
The Journal of Genetic Psychology, 1952, 81, 273-288
A study of the Relationship between temperament of broodmares
and the performance of offspring. : Betsy Worth Estes.
One example is the mare Dust whirl, Who was of such a high-strung disposition
that the late Joseph Widener had her trained. hence she never raced. But among her
progeny were three stakes winner including Reaping Reward and Whirlaway.
Secretariat's dam was by the outstanding stamina producing sire Princequillo which was imported from Europe and luckily survived the U-boats when he was sent by ship to the USA.
@@goosewine7663
Now that you mentioned "Dust Whirl" she was the mare that gave birth
to the magnificent "Whirlaway" won races all the way to the Triple Crown, and Travers"
Somethingroyal was a dominant mare, but she was also an outstanding broodmare because she had the X linked recessive trait for the large heart. That is why Secretariat's heart was around 20 pounds and also why he was an exceptional damsire. All of his daughters inherited it and passed it to their produce. Their son's had a 50/50 chance of getting (and exhibiting) the large heart trait. Their daughters had a 50/50 chance of getting it (but not displaying it unless they were mated to a stallion that also had it), and then also passing it the same way.
Large hearts have been found in four lines, all descended from Eclipse (who had a large heart as well) and come down through Pocahontas.
There are so many factors involved. Even COI. While 10% on 10 generations is where we really start to see decline in quantitative fitness traits such as performance, fertility, lifespan; around 2 - 5% seems to be something of a sweetspot for producing good racehorses. I would venture a guess that Secretariat was somewhere in the 2 - 3% range on 10. He was definitely heavily inbred from generation 7 on, especially on Galopin and Isonomy. (Galopin was 3.125% on 5 generations and Isomy was 2.73% on 5.)
I had a dominant thoroughbred mare who had to be put out with geldings or kept alone and near other horses. If she went out with the mares, she would bully and harass them and create chaos in the field. Her son, was also dominant and I had to separate him from everyone...lol, although kept near other horses. He did have one buddy who he could be around and who tolerated his bullying. I liked the alpha characteristics in my horses as they were bolder and less frightened of strange objects or events and were more confident in new situations. I always found the topic of dominance interesting and I firmly believe it is effective on the track when the dominant horse "looks" the other horse in the eye.
Alabama people not going to be happy with her
Secretariat also had a large, wide neck so he could take in my more air as well. The horse built by God.
I remember seeing the race. Secretariat was so amazing I was really young but I remember I was in awe of that horse he was Something Special!!!!
Appreciate the expertise. But I’m still not sure why, alone at home, I fell to my knees in tears when Secretariat crossed the finished line in the 1973 Belmont. The greatest sports moment I’ve ever seen as it happened.
Talk about “delivering” with the whole world watching. The skies parted that day, and God reached through to touch one of his creatures. Thanks for letting me share.
Thank you for sharing.
I was there, watching it on TV as it happened, and I burst into tears. There really are no words to convey the depth of feeling in individuals and in millions across the nation at that moment. Didn't hurt that Chick Anderson's immortal call accompanied and illuminated it for all time.
I agree, nothing like it. Makes me cry still today, and I saw it back then, too.
@@famouskate9071 It's still crazy. Veteran horsemen were going nuts.
Great video. Every cowboys dream who is involved in Thoroughbreds. A beautiful woman who knows her horses.
agree. when I said freak of nature I meant God made. Not something nature created by accident. You know there were some computer gurus who took everything known about Secetariat and tried to create a computer program to duplicate him via computer program. They tried several times and finally said, they can't even get a computer to duplicate how perfect he was in every respect. will there ever be another? Only if God decides to make another.
God should stop making supernal race horses and go to the children's cancer ward and spontaneously heal them, a whole lotta better things God can be doing
@@zombiefulci3301 what makes you think you know what God is doing and why.
There were a lot more stallions involved and still present going back in pedigrees. It’s just that the three mentioned are the only ones left on the top (sire) line of a pedigree.
BTW, inbreeding is a huge problem today. Man o’ War was bred about 25 times a year. American Pharoah is being bred over 150 times a year. Even if he turns out to be a great sire, that’s too much genetic concentration.
calif. chrome couldn't have won against Secretariat if Secretariat ran on 3 legs. You don't know horses or records or history.
you can' judge the greatness of a racehorse by how it's owners used him or her. nor can you judge the horse by it's off spring because you can't control what gets passed on. What we do know about Secretariat is that over the 150 years the triple crown races have been (which then includes approximately 6,750 world class race horses at their best) and in all those years, races and horses one horse has the time/speed record in all 3 races and has held those records now for 50 years). We also know he wasn't even matured when he was retired from racing. Add to that he was only allowed his head in one race and even in that race he only ran as hard as he wanted to and won the Belmont in2:24 just galloping the last half of the race because he had nothing to run against. Turcott the jockey said he wasn't tired in that race at the end and could have gone a lot faster. There is no question who is the greatest race horse is. It is SECRETARIAT. Who the best sire is, is a different question. Who has the most wins is also a different question. Who raced the most years is another different question.
I wish I could ❤️ this comment. He is the greatest athlete to have ever lived in my book.
Phenotype, he looked like a good quarterhorse.
The large heart gene (X-factor) is sex linked to the X gene - therefore, mares can have 2 copies to pass on, stallions one copy and can only give that X gene to his daughters. That is why Secretariat was a great broodmare sire, but also sired great fillies like Lady's Secret. They have traced the X-factor gene back through pedigrees and found it originated with the mares used in the original breeding of the thoroughbred. There are "double copy" mares who have the X-factor on both of their X chromosomes and will therefor pass at least one copy on to any colt or filly born. Breeding a stallion with a large heart, X-factor, to a double copy X-factor mare, will guarantee a double copy filly or single copy colt. This isn't the only important thing in racehorse genetics of course, as horses without this gene can also be very successful. The TB heart is known already to be larger than in other horse breeds, but the X-factor can potentially give an extra advantage to a great racehorse, such as we saw with Secretariat (probably the largest known). One of the early sires named Eclipse was also recorded to have a large heart upon autopsy. Sham, a great racehorse in his own right, who raced the same year as Secretariat (and by rights would have been the triple crown winner that year... he just had the bad luck to be born the same year as Secretariat) also had a large heart (I believe the doctor who weighed it said it was 18-19 lbs? So not as large as Secretariats heart, but still twice the normal TB's heart. (Also, just an aside, the doc who did the autopsy on Secretariat did not actually weight the heart - the weight is an estimate at 22 lbs). The other amazing thing about secretariat is his conformation - he truly had one of the most efficient strides ever. If you watch him race, watch how his legs move in comparison to other horses'. They have an amazingly efficient stride, as well as a hugely powerful "kick" that he could use pretty much the entire race without tiring (thanks to that large heart). "He is moving like a tremendous machine!" The announcer said during Secretariats amazing Belmont run... and you could truly say that about Secretariat - he was a perfect racing machine. Zenyatta, another amazing racehorse, also has at least one copy of the Xfactor gene... That, along with her large sixe (17.2 hands) giant stride, and great athleticism, made her such a great racehorse... she won the Breeder's cup classic and *almost* won it twice (only done by Tiznow). Her second place in her second Breeder's cup is so heartbreaking but also one of the most *amazing* races... she "won" it in spirit - watch her races too, to see... she would make up ground like she was a freight train passing other very talented racehorses like they were barely moving... and she did it with such ease... I so wish they had "let her out" in a longer distance race, 1.5 miles or more to see if she'd have broken any speed records. Unfortunately, so far she has not had a foal that has become as great as she was on the track - In any case, some food for thought and more to research if you want to. Just found your video by chance, and I love this topic. All the best!
keep believing in a fictional assertion if it makes you sleep at nigh
I would like to see research done on why the greatest race mares, i.e. Zenyatta, Genuine Risk, Personal Ensign, Winning Colors, etc... never have produced an even average ability runner.
And why was Cigar sterile? Drugs?
@@Makado14 his sire almost was
@@TimYatcak are you referring to Cigar?
I found this really interesting. Few people talk about this.
Outstanding. I never appreciated the thoroubreds until I lost my ass betting on quarter horses. Lol. Good stuff. Thank you ma'am.
There's a lot of information about Secretariat and the X factor, the theorized gene mutation that leads to a large heart. There's certainly evidence for that in my opinion. So you may want to revisit this topic at some point.
It'll be interesting to! I'm barely scratching the surface here and this is certainly nothing more than an introduction to the topic.
@@zoognosiswithjoy it is so much BUNK
I'm pretty sure that the large heart gene goes back to British mares that were bred to the three foundation stallions.
@@annehatter3319 only problem is that it is FCITION
This is a long way off. When she says that it's a question of whether he the horse has the MSTN gene or not, she really means it a question of which variant. They all have the MSTN gene, but some have the C in double copy which tends towards speed. The really bulky pure sprinter, however, has a SINE insertion in the MSTN gene. It's correct that the TT (slow twitch) was more frequently selected for in the early thoroughbred, but the C and the SINE insertion was always present. If any horse really propagated the C variant it was Phalaris in the 1920s, not Northern Dancer, 40 years later.
XD Saying gene when they mean allele/variant is a pet peeve of mine. lol A lot of the information in this video is wrong, though. Like there weren't just three foundation stallions. Those three are now the only tail male lines, but they weren't even close to the only foundation stallions. Curwen's Bay Barb actually contributed more to the breed than the Byerly Turk. LOL There were something like 200 foundation stallions used, though there was a sharp bottleneck about 250 years ago.
They should change some U.S. horse racing rules
1. Use their real birthdays as opposed to January 1.
2.make the minimum racing age four years old.
3. If the gene pool is as small as stated perhaps C.R.I.S.P.R. should be allowed.
Secretariat was pretty cool (AND gorgeous!), but the king of American racehorses was Seattle Slew.
Into Mischief, Tapit, Danzig, Mr. Prospector, storm cat, are examples of stallions who exceeded expectations and their stud fees just went up and up and stayed high for a long time. We don’t know yet how many generations Tapit or Into Mischief will be able to keep producing good stallions. None of Tapit or Into Mischief’s sons are great sires yet. Dazig has been able to throw it far and his progeny are sound even though he was retired for injury. But Danzig was not the most beautiful horse. Mr. Prospector and has been able to through it for many generations, especially through fappiano and unbridled, although they can be injury prone and have a strong preference for running on dirt. Buckpasser was great as a broodmare sire but not great as a sire of sons. Northern Dancer and Nasrullah were the other way around. Mr. Prospector was very good at both.
Regarding Bloodline of Secretariat with Bold Ruler (genetics for speed) and Something Royal (genetics for endurance) I heard the size of Secretariat's Heart (gene) was passed on from his mom..I'm not an expert with regards to all you mentioned but this I found interesting. I also heard Shams heart was large as well 18lbs. Thank you for this informative video : )
Vielen Dank für dieses spannende und lehrreiche Video!
Gut gemacht!👍🏻🤗
Very few horses make it as stallions no matter how good their pedigree and no matter how good they were as racehorses. And most of the ones that are good can only throw it one generation meaning their sons do not become good stallions. And some are only good stallions in one country and not in others. Or there progeny are fast but they are unsound, or fast but unattractive or mean. And the few that can do it all may not cross well with each other. Same for mares. The American Horse of the Year was a female 3 yrs in a row 2009-11 and I do not think any of them had any fast progeny.
"Sweet Home Alabama" LOL! You almost made me spit out my coffee. Very informative and funny. Thank you!
fantastic video congratulations
Why is it okay to insult Southerners?
All the years of figuring. A horse is like trying to figure out god
The thoroughbreds race horses in America in the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s were the greatest race horses this world has ever seen. It’s because those horses were only a generation or two away from their original European blood lines. I’d you look at pedigrees today….. these horses today are six generations or more away from those precious European lines which are now diluted with so much in-breeding. Todays breeders will NEVER be able to breed a race horse like Secretariat, Kelso, Round Table, Citation, DIscovery, Nijinsky, Ruffian, Genuine Risk, Spectacular Bid, Affirmed, etc…. The bloodlines are diluted and have not been freshened with a foreign pedigree in decades. Call me wrong if you like but no breeder will ever breed another race horse like we use to see back in the day. These horses today are very weak and very slow. Yeah, sprinters still go fast but they’ll never win at a classic distance like the great Forego, who could win at any distance and you don’t see horses like that today nor do you see horses who can carry 137pounds and still win a grade I race..
How could you not mention the Great Dr. Fager. 😢 lol
I'm certainly no expert, but a part of me thinks his physical difference (being so well muscled) might very well have something to do with how they fed him too.
These horses are essentially children. Pair that with the constant growth they should be doing but then add a lack of food (in mass alone, not necessarily in nurtients) could, I think, very well have played a role in him developing so well. It only makes sense to feed a growing animal well. Especially if it's also constantly pumping out energy by doing such high level sports. I personally think it's not a good idea to put them on an 'athletes diet' when they need every bit of nutrients they can get for their growth alone (+ the immense level of energy that they loose when being trained or raced).
Maybe that's why we get so many twig-legged TBs nowadays who's legs snap at every other gust of wind, their bodies prioritize putting the energy it gets into the muscles, heart and lungs instead of the bones.
I really wish they would let them grow out before racing them, but given that money is involved I know that'll never happen. Because waiting 5 years to do the first race is never going to cross anyones mind if all they want is win prices and money...
What evidence is there that Secretariat's large heart had "no genetic basis whatsoever"? I am highly skeptical of that statement at about 7:15 in the video. I know of no definitive proof that his large heart was due to his genotype, but how can you completely dismiss the possibility? There is that theory floating around of something sex linked on the X chromosome, which would explain why he gained a reputation as a sire of successful mares. As far as I know, that is strictly conjecture, but ... what if?
Could be possible. But why only Secretariat? Perhaps this will need a follow-up video in the future.
If you get a copy of Gray's Anatomy, there is a section on the fetal heart evolution. (almost exactly lie the equine) The heart being made of endothelium connective and elastic tissue etc. COULD NOT BE ENCODED IN A SINGLE GENE LOCUS
I believe that it has been traced back to Pocahontas
Actually Secretariats heart WAS weighed. At 22 pounds. And they now believe that his heart size was passed down through a mare in his damsides' fourth generation, also from a well known mare.
It was not weighed. Dr. Swerczek, who performed the necropsy, did not have his scales with him and estimated the weight of the heart based on its size compared to other equine hearts he had seen. th-cam.com/video/JQooYMeriEU/w-d-xo.html
@@tubeyhamster ok
Loved this video. Thanks so much. More please!
I agree 100%
You can buy a fast horse but you need the right recipe to win
Very intelligent woman.
Oh ...Secretariat got his from Somethingroyal's dad Peincequillo
Princequillo
Thank you, I just subscribed...
Thank you for enlightening me.
Phar lap was also a very large horse, all over. Noticeably bigger than all the other horses. He was born in New Zealand, but became famous in Australia. Phar lap also had this unbelievable drive to be in the lead. One race the rider kept holding Phar lap back, and injured his mouth, Phar lap could not eat for 2 days. They learnt to only use jockeys that let Phar lap run, they did not even have to use a whip. Sadly he died of Arsenic poisoning after winning his first and only race in Mexico.
Phar Lap was a gelding so we didn't get a chance to see any of his offspring race.
Wasn't he murdered? Seriously.
Yes, sadly it does appear he was murdered. Just in different interviews they say celiac and or arsenic poison. How cruel, just because of greed, to murder such a magnificent horse. Humans are stupid.
@@mikeblast7507 He either died of colic or was poisoned. It took place in Tijuana MX so the investigation may not have been very thorough.
@@auntyshakira747 : Arsenic on leaves of trees nearby was speculated in another video somewhere on TH-cam. Like the horse Alydar, something fishy here...
How big was ruffians heart my favorite fillie ever look at every call to post in DRF 1-1-1-1-1-1-1 till she broke down she was beating foolish pleasure and switched leads and startled by seagulls in the infield I cried so hard that day
Speaking of cousins. I understand the four horses with the largest hearts ever measured were all cousins of each other, sharing Princequillo as a grand sire. In order: Secretariat (America's greatest distance horse), Sham (raced against Secretariat), Mill Reef (UK's great distance horse) and Key To The Mint (raced against Secretariat).
I thought all experts considered Kelso was the greatest horse in America for longer distances followed by Princequillo
@@ksundares Kelso was the 2 mile king Kelso was the champion but over 12-13f he was mincemeat for Secretariat like all the rest. And we don't know how Secretariat would have handled 16f, he might have won there too.
AND Phar Lap, was another of those particular 'hearts'! And I suspect, Zenyatta, too!
@@connorduke4619 you mean under 12F? Which are shorter distances
@@ksundares Secretariat won the 13F Canadian International under a hand ride o heavy track, eased before the line to win with a 6.5 length margin which remains the largest winning margin of that race to this day.
I applaud her interest in the Thoroughbred. They may be of a small gene pool but are of huge interest to racing fans and people. And us followers of this magnificent breed are not always nice about our opinions. So I noticed the charts behind her and I see my number 2 love, a German Shepherd. Could you please do a video on the genetics and inbreeding of this incredible breed of dog?
You got it! On my list
@@zoognosiswithjoy thank you!
Agree! Especially the differences between European-bred dogs and American show dogs. There’s a reason the dog trainer I used to know imported most of the dogs he trained for police departments.
@maritasue5067 Absolutely, the German bred working lines and showline dogs also, are of much higher quality than our dogs. Germany has much stricter rules on breeding and registering gsd's than we do.
If you like German shepherds, check out Belgian Molinois! (I didn't spell that right) GS used to be my favorite... until I found out about Bm. They are basically GS 5.0
For whoever was talking about steroids being the cause of the enlarged hearts, even when steroids were legal, they would not normally give steroids to a stallion. Steroids given to a stallion would make them to hard to manage and much more dangerous, then if you did want to use them for stud, when they were done racing they could be infertile. Secretariat and Sham for sure, sired quite a few foals (obviously fertile). The other two probably were as well. Ask yourself if it was steroids, why would it only effect approximately 4 horses, all grandsons of Princequillo, in approximately the same years? Why not the Nashua descendents, there were a lot more of them.
That saying something, when a couple dozen years later, when supposedly we know more, and train horses better, we STILL didn't come even CLOSE, not to say beat, Secretariat's world records... Theoretically- it should be a piece of cake, right? Nope.
I loved this, very informative.
Technically a thoroughbred crossed with a non thoroughbred horse doesn't make the resulting foal a "hybrid", just a horse as they're the same species, Equus cabalus. A thoroughbred is just a breed of E. cabalus same as an Irish draught is or a Shetland pony.
Secretariat looked too big and muscular to be a good distance horse. If he was a human he might look like Kyle Snyder or Gabel Stevenson. The Belmont is a mile and a half. That is like 600 meters for a human. How many human middle distance runners who are fast at 400 m to 800 m are built like that? Human middle distance runners and long distance runners are skinny and usually small. If you gave them steroids and they grew big muscles they would not be good distance runners anymore.
Bob Baffert once said when it comes to stallions you can’t make them and you can’t stop them. For example Vice Regent and Vice Regal were full brothers. Vice regent was injured and did not make much money on teh track. He would not have had the best mares being sent to him and his stud fee and expectations for him would have been low. But he led the canadian sire list 13 times. His brother Vice Regal was an outstanding racehorse, made lots of money on the track, was horse of the year in Canada. So the best mares would have gone to him, and expectations would have been high. But he was a mediocre stallion, not nearly as good as his brother.
Do quarter horse please
Walter Merrick = Federico Tesio
I thought Secretariat had a female ancestor named Pochantas, where the original
large heart came from, and passed only to a male. Anyway thank you for your video..
Alabama is a good state with good people
Alabama comment not appreciated.
insert your favorite local for inbreeding then... you know it still happens in certain hollers
@@jmlincolorado Well, what ever that means.
I jest, apologies. The Hapsburgs are a better example of inbreeding.
Eyebrows……
'Recipe book' holds the clue to Phar Lap's death.
The riddle of the mysterious death of Australia's most famous racehorse may have been solved more than 75 years after his death. Phar Lap probably died as a result of arsenic administered by his own trainer, rather than being murdered by American gangsters as Australians have long believed. That is the conclusion of experts who have studied a "recipe book" of tonics used by Phar Lap's trainer, Harry Telford, which sold at auction yesterday(April 25th 2008) for close to £18,000. Among the ingredients the tonics were arsenic, strychnine, belladonna, cocaine and caffeine - given to horses in small quantities in the past, as stimulants, before a race.
Phar Lap, a five-year-old chestnut gelding, died at the Menlo Park Race Track in California in 1932. He was at the peak of his career, having won. 37 of his 51 races including the 1930 Melbourne Cup, the Australian equivalent of the Grand National. Two weeks before his sudden and agonising death, he had won North America's richest race: the Agua Caliente Handicap in Mexico. Australians were horrified by the news, and conspiracy theories involving foul play abounded. The most enduring one was that "Big Red", as he was known, was poisoned by gangsters who - because he appeared to be unbeatable - feared he would upset their illegal gambling syndicates. Phar Lap was not accompanied by Telford on his first trip to the US, which was intended to launch him on to the American racing scene. Instead, Tommy Woodcock, his stand-in trainer, travelled with him. But Woodcock took Telford's 82-page handwritten book of tonics with him, and he may have accidentally given the champion a fatal overdose.The auctioneer, Charles Leski, said yesterday: "It's the first time that we have had, in writing, confirmation that caffeine, cocaine, belladonna, strychnine - all of them we think of as poisons - were actually used by Harry Telford in the maintenance of his horses. "In strictly measured doses, and mixed in with other feed, presumably these served the purpose of being a stimulant and didn't adversely affect the horses. But if Phar Lap had been unwell in the trip over to America, or if he had been in the hands of more than one person in the US, it's possible the dosage wasn't strictly adhered to, and it appears he overdosed on a concoction that was considered good for him." The notebook, which contains 30 recipes, was bought by the Melbourne Museum, which has displayed Phar Lap's hide since 1933, as well as his saddle and other memorabilia. His skeleton is in the Museum of New Zealand, where the Australian-owned racehorse was born and bred. His massive 14lb heart is in Canberra's National Museum. The thoroughbred gelding collapsed at his stables soon after traveling back to the United States from Mexico. Woodcock found him in severe pain, with a high temperature, and a few hours later he died in his trainer's arms of internal bleeding. A postmortem examination revealed the horse's stomach and intestines were inflamed, which triggered theories that he had been poisoned. Tests in 2006 on a strand on his hair, taken from his hide, suggested Phar Lap had ingested a large amount of arsenic about 35 hours before he died. But racing experts believe that the arsenic is more likely to have built up gradually over a period of time. In the days before swabbing, it was not uncommon for racehorses to be fed small quantities of arsenic, to give them an edge. A popular tonic of the day was Fowler's Solution, which was arsenic-based and was administered to Phar Lap throughout his racing career. Repeated doses might have accumulated in his body and eventually proved deadly. Percy Sykes, a contemporary racehorse trainer, said after the tests in 2006: "I wouldn't be surprised if arsenic was found in every horse in that era."
Woodcock admitted on his deathbed in 1985 that the horse might have died from consuming an excessive quantity of one of his tonics. The notebook represents the first written proof of the ingredients found in the tonics. Phar Lap was a source of national pride to Australians during the Depression and is still regarded as a heroic figure.
Thank you
Zoologists love to criticize inbreeding, and eugenics, and promote hybrid vigor. In nature, many animals only reproduce after physical contests among the males, so only a few males get to breed. This narrows the gene pool but upgrades the species over time bc it causes inbreeding to superior anscestors. If every member of the species breeds (with no selection process) there will be more genetic diversity and a weaker species. The goal of a selection process is to select superior genes, and remove inferior genes, even though that typically reduces genetic diversity. Keeping in mind that what is a “superior” gene can change over time. Math genes will not be considered superior genes in gorillas until gorilla societies start rewarding math proficiency. Creating a new dog breed requires inbreeding. A Liger is full of genetic diversity but is not as good as either a Lion or Tiger. Famous horse breeder Federico Tesio explained thoroughbreds are not a species with predictable mating results. People criticize thoroughbreds for being inbred, but Tesio considered thoroughbreds to be hybrids, and tried to select similar parents to reduce unpredictable breeding outcomes. Compare how different individual thoroughbreds look from each other, and how unpredictable their offspring are in appearance and ability, compared with any real species in nature. When do you ever see a lion with one white paw, or a zebra with a white nose? The color pattern on every cougar, and every racoon, is almost identical. Tesio intentionally selected bay horses (meaning all brown with black manes and feet) ideally with no white on them. He also often inbred to St Simon, one of the best thoroughbred stallions. Although he wouldn’t inbreed closer than the third generation in the pedigree. Tesio created Ribot and Nearco, who are two of the best racehorses and sires ever.
To clarify, I am not suggesting gorillas should value math proficiency and try to turn themselves into humans. I like gorillas just the way they are. In fact I think humans overvalue math proficiency.
How big was whirlaways heart we will never know In 1941 alone he won the triple crown broke the stakes record yes secretariat time was the greatest and still stands today with 126 on both their backs 1 week later whirly won the Preakness then he won a stakes races in-between the Preakness and Belmont and of course he won the triple crown he is also the only triple crown winner to win the superfecta the 3 classics and the miid summer derby the Travers stakes at Saratoga the graveyard of champions Secretariat lost to onion big red lifetime record 21 4losses Whitley's 36 wins and only 4 times out of the money 60 races in all most he 11 he lost as a 2 yr old he kept running to the out side post loseing 20 lengths at least and still winning some of the 2 yr old races sonny Jim Fitzgerald cut one of the blinkers of towards the rail and the rest is history never came out of money after that 15 2nd. 83rd place finishes he won 2 2mile races twice he's always overlooked citation is another horse that ran over 45 races he
Correction jimmy fitzsimmons
He carried the x chromazone.
Thank you great information
They do this in the walking horse and every well know horse enbreading is big in the walking horse
Pacing breeds are something I've been contemplating discussing. The Narraganset Pacer, an extinct breed, was a pacing horse; its descendants gave rise to the Tennessee Walking Horse. Supposedly the pacing breeds were favored in the American South, as they allowed plantation overseers and slave catchers to smoothly ride as they patrolled slave populations. A lot of the genetics came from Ireland and Scotland and helped bolster American slavery. The marks of slavery are written in the genetics of America's horses.
Secretariat had large heart gene Zooey....its passed from Dad to daughter.....he passed this gene to his daughters....Terlingua and Secrettame.....think Storm Cat and Gone West
Secretariat died in 1989 due to laminitis at age 19.

en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
You were great in The Ramones
Taking this as a compliment lmao
Pharlap was am amazing Australian horse who like Secretariat had an oversized heart. He died after he arrived in the USA from eating something toxic in his paddock. Anyway, look him up. It's interesting.
Have you found anything about the ECVM potential genetic link in thoroughbreds?
Have you looked into Phar Lap...an Australian TB
To the stayer are Lovely an sprinters strong bones jumpers or show Dressage the only Disney it was.well done there has been others.but you should see 🥰🐎❤️😭
WOW there is so much wrong when you get to the bare bones citing Secretariat so wrong in many ways. Flying Racing Pigeons on a National Champion level I had to learn genetics till I was as versed as many experts even did lectures that included Veterinarians across the country same applies to horses actually more complicated than horses because of data gathering. I would think you would cite the greatest thoroughbred of all times both racing & breeding a thoroughbred that even to this day breeders go out of their minds if he isn't in the pedigree ask all the Premier Breeders they will look you straight in the face and say MAN O WAR without MAN O WAR the price is 30%-50% lower it's over 106 years and he still is prominent today oh by the way HE IS THE STANDARD that all the top horseman - historian's & breeders use.
Not so. The Man O War sire line is hanging by a thread through Tiznow who recently retired from stud duty without leaving any good stallion sons to keep the line alive. Man O War’s main relevance today is as the sire of War Admiral who was the broodmaresire of Buckpasser who is still an important Broodmaresire.
@@NikoTinbergen-n5i
OMG!! Look as a teenager and when I came back from Vietnam I hot walked horses for Elliot Burch Rokeby at Belmont Park did it for years and your talking to someone who saw Secretariat everyday passing his barn he was a Great Horse no dispute but a year later he would never have beaten Forego at 4 and Ruffian if he and her were same age she would've buried him Hell Seattle Slew would've killed him. I remember on Belmont day John Veitch & I were walking back to the stables after his win and I can tell you back at the barn he was spent. He was great but NOT like Man o War I've been studying him for decades I live in Saratoga since the late 70's but just to answer your embellishment of His dying Progeny off the top of my head by memory only modern horses like Hense- Street Boss - Arrogate - Fast & Accurate - Hansen - Tapit - Batin Rouge - Tiznow (you mentioned) Tourist DaTara the whole In Reality line which is still going - Skywalker - Betrando - Known Fact - Warning - AND TO END THIS HOW ABOUT AMERICAN PHARAOH
@@NikoTinbergen-n5i
Also be careful tossing around greatness it's overrated but when you compare great horse there is only One that is Legendary & Immortal and that's MAN O' WAR
We need to go back to racing only 5-6 year olds. This baby racing has got to stop !
Cheetahs have way less genetic diversity than Thoroughbreds.
Poor genetic diversity is a major conservation issue for cheetahs, as it is a major barrier to successful captive breeding SSP programs for the species.
@@zoognosiswithjoy Maybe they just don’t feel like breeding in captivity. Moose don’t like breeding in captivity either. Hamsters breed in captivity but then eat their babies.
Secretariat body was intact whole and he had the most beautiful casket to be laid to rest in.
Is there a good test kit to deep dive your horses genetics?
Man o' War also (reportedly) had an enlarged heart.
Secretariat haunches looks taller than his withers. Told NY Dad when I saw him he's running downhill. Lol. Gosh so long ago.
That's a known speed trait.
I learned so much. Thank you.
God Stuff
There's a bit more to it than that.....
I'm sure the size of his ticker had helped him carry that speed over a distance. Really the bottom line in thoroughbred breeding is, it's a crap shoot. You breed the best to the best and hope for the best. It also helps if the losses you incur along the way you take as part of doing business. Most outstanding race horses have conformation faults. In other words they depart from the ideal. That doesn't make them less appealing to the eye, as in Secretariat's case. They also don't know how much you paid for them. So no tears when that pretty million dollar youngster can't outrun a fat man with emphysema.
What flaws do you see in Secretariat's conformation?
@@vernonfrance2974 Departing from the ideal; straight through the hock. (Many horsemen favor that, others think it predisposes them to unsoundness) straight shouldered and Goose rumped. A trait that Bold Ruler had, and many of his offspring inherit. I've heard it said he had slightly offset knees (a serious fault) but I don't recall that being the case. I think it was rather the rumor that he was having knee problems. That would have been news to us in Gerards office. Also a slight bit upright in the front patterns but I personally prefer a runner to be made that way as opposed to having long sloping pasterns. (Oh the poor suspensories)
while it wouldn't be surprising to find that natural heart size has a genetic component, and so could be inherited in a reasonably predictable manner, the mapping of the equine genome has proven that heart size is not passed on the X chromosome.
She said the Darcey Arabian. It is the Darley Arabian. There is no evidence for the large heart gene and Secretariat's heart was a guestimate. It was not actually weighed.
Oops, yeah misspoke there. The image gives the correct name.
tell us all about your EDUCATION dear? BEcause a gene EXISTS in the DNA, DOESS NOT MEAN IT IS EXPRESSED
He was Truly THE HORSE THAT “ GOD “ BUILT . And yes all the Inbreeding has caused Big Issues. And Breeding horses like Ruffian . Her breeders KNEW there were Bad Legs in the Lineage and Bred Anyway. And what happened It Killed Her. Same as Quarter Horse’s. As any breed horses or any other animal. He was a once in a life time. 😊💞
You are very unknowledgeable on this particular subject. Especially the use of the term “inbreeding”. Inbreeding and Linebreeding are two separate things. Thoroughbreds are far from inbred, but they’re all linebred and the most linebred horses tend to be the best if the linebreeding was done well. Thoroughbreds are a wonderful example of proper linebreeding
I'm afraid you're a little misinformed. Linebreeding is just strategic inbreeding to lock-in desired traits between relatives while minimizing the inbreeding coefficient, usually by mating second-degree or third-degree relatives. Problem with linebreeding is that it also locks-in undesireable traits as well and closes off the gene pool, as I addressed in the video.
Bottom line. 1. I don’t think he was natural. Despite it being the 70s I think he was given copious amounts of steroids and could possibly have answered why his heart and body grew so big. 2. He was a dud. He sired 600 and only managed to amount to anything decent.
You are so wrong there. I worked for Mike Gerard back then. If you don't who he is then you don't know anything much about horse racing.
@@biff5856 calm down. I’ve been in this racquet for years. He wasn’t natural. He was never blood tested. And as far as I’m concerned, your dirty unless tested clean.
Steroids doesn’t give a horse more stamina. It’s mostly use for increasing muscle mass and for recovering abilities. It does increase the muscle thickness of the heart but not the volume. It takes many years though. I’m an ex bodybuilder 😊 He simply had a superior Vo2 Max .
@@germaincousineau8608 it most certainly does. in general anaobolic/androgenic steroids increase redbloodcell production, ie, secondary polycythemia. depending on what what is used, some steroids do increase stamina, recovery without so much increaseing muscle mass.