What pickup actually sounds like an acoustic guitar? GUITAR SHOOTOUT!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ธ.ค. 2024
- #acousticguitar #shootout #comparison
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Ok, well the answer is....none of the above sounded like the guitar. And that makes sense because the Zoom recorder is picking up the output of the sound hole, and the pickups are buried inside the body. The sound of the guitar is very different in both of those places. Guitar builders are shooting for beautiful sound hole projection. The pickup is an afterthought. So, to be fair, you would need to adjust the EQ on every pickup to match the guitar which was not done here. Add to this, that when acoustic guitars are recorded, a combination of microphones and internal pickups are used - all to different tracks - and blended later. So my view is - you could make any of those pickups sound great - except that Fender acoustic. You need to slam that guitar in a car door and use it for fire wood.
Why would I want to damage my car door with that?
I installed an LR Baggs Lyric in my Alvarez Yairi DY61 and, if plugged into a decent PA or amp, it represents the sound quite well. Very happy with it.
I have 3 of the lyrics and love them
But the minute you need to turn it up in a band situation it's useless due to the feedback, I know, I had one, and the anthem was crap too, the element fared out the best, still not ideal
@@BunkerProductionsgreat in my mandolin, but useless in my steel and nylon strings
Audio engineer here. The variables we aren't accounting for here are the room and mic placement. Those mics are in XY but they're basically pointed at the ceiling, not facing the guitar, and appear to be 3-6 feet away. None of the miked guitars sound very good and I know that's not accurate because some of those are outstanding guitars. So there's a mic placement issue. There aren't any pickups that will sound like that, nor should they. Move your mic - and I recommend just using one - 8-12in away pointed at the treble side of the upper bout. Set the input gain so the mics and the pickups are hitting roughly -18 to -12db. You'll get a much straighter comparison.
Great comparison Jeremy. K&k sounded closest to a mic’d sound to my ears. I was pretty surprised how close the plugged in acoustasonic sounded to a mic’d acoustic.
This is why I don’t often buy guitars with pickups in them. My main stage instruments all have the Baggs Lyric in them and I use the Baggs Para DI to adjust for the room/stage wonkyness. One of my guitars that I tune super low I have the Anthem SL. One thing to point out about the Anthem and Lyric is that the Anthem has a crossover circuit in it that makes all the guitars signal from 400hz on down go through the under saddle. It can give you the feeling that it has more low end because of that. The Lyric requires a little more planning on stage but sounds the best when adjusted to the guitar. That little trim pot does a lot!
How is the feed back situation with the lyric?
Thank you for this Caleb! I'm talking to a guy about buying his acoustic with the Anthem and trying to determine if I actually want that particular system
The Baggs Anthem, followed by the Baggs Lyric were the two best to my ears. A pickup you don't hear much about but which sounds very good is the Baggs LB6. I have one in a Seagull guitar and I'll put it up against much more expensive setups.
I have the same set up sweet
thank u...u think the baggs lb6 is the best?
Man that was brutal! They all sounded so good acoustically and no good with the pick up.
es verdad...
Was hoping he'd A---->B the KNA ap-1 to mic. Considering something for a nylon string.
so sad
is there any other pickup out there that would sound better than those?
I can't play only with a mic on stage, as it always ends up being too soft or too feedbacky
@@giovannivicari8615 try a maton guitar with their AP5 pro system. its the best i've heard so far.
Yeah even the zoom mics sounded WAY better than all of em…was hoping the kk would sound good but it looks like im buying a mic. Original owner of a 90’s taylor 512 but rarely played it until recently and immediately hit the acoustic DI tone wall with the fishman i had installed 6 years ago. Time to take it out and get a mic. Thanks for this video.!
I do enjoy the Anthem, however my preference usually are passive systems that I can contour with a good acoustic DI
There’s a Brazilian pickup company called Harmonik microphones. 2 mics & a piezo, mix tone and volume knobs tucked under the sound hole (you can adjust the mic balance and piezo levels with a special tool). And the dealbreaker is a feedback suppressor button, which can store settings for frequencies that feedback (20 for the mics, 10 for the piezo). Piezo pieces are long enough for extended range acoustic / classical guitars (quite common in Brazil). I’m guessing the only reason they are not more well known is because they are Brazilian and not widely known outside?
Would love to see you review that
Always loved the Lyric and K&K! I ultimately went with the Lyric when I bought, but it still has things I like to tweak away with my preamp/eq pedal the Grace ALiX
Interesting and insightful. So many choices, so many options. Just one thought though, each guitar has its own tone wood variable which can also impact on the pickup choice. So to get a more informed shootout, each pickup would need to be in the same guitar spec to get an idea of how different they sound. To do that would be so difficult though, to install a pickup in four or five guitars and be able to compare them in one video episode. I’ve been able to compare a cheap fishman under saddle (under twenty UK pounds) with an Ortega Magus under saddle pickup (just under sixty uk pounds) and an L R Baggs M80 sound hole pickup (came installed in the guitar) and I found the L R Baggs to be a really good option, especially when finger picking, easy to install, and great output. The Ortega was really balanced and produced a good overall sound. Only issue was the piezo cable needed quite a large drill hole in the bridge to pass the piezo through, but it’s a tidy unit. The fishman was ok, but lacked tonal output. Decent for the money though, but a more upmarket fishman would probably be best (e.g. the Matrix model) I think that in the end a mic is the purest sound but a mic can be limiting by way of stage proximity etc. I prefer onboard pickups, and have top conclude that if you can afford it try more than system and decide on one that suits your particular guitar build and tone wood voicing.
I install the K&K Puri Mini in all the guitars I build. I like it the best because it doesn’t alter the guitar in anyway.It picks up not only the strings but also the body as well.
Guitar builders don't do gigs, so they end up with opinions about pickups which rarely agree with those who gig, I used the KK and it was awful, not to mention taking out the individual pads someone had glued in
@burrencrawler have you found one you like? I have a D18 and hate the knk mini
@@jasondonovan-oo3dx yes, the LR baggs element, I installed it in my 1930's Gibson L00
I think the closest to a “natural” sound were the Lyric Acoustic Mic and the K&K but both would definitely demand some EQ to get the right sound. Some time spent messing around on the mixer or an acoustic amp is inevitable. I have the Fishman MX T in my Martin D12 which is just ok IMO and a Fishman Presys that I had retrofitted to my old Takamine GS330. The Presys can blend mic and piezo and I end up with a better plugged in sound out of my beater guitar than the Martin. At least to my own ear. Go figure.
Listen to the AP5 pro from Maton then think again !
Wow man. What an amazing video! The Anthem stage pro just blown my mind. I think this is the only pickup that really transfers the meat of the original acoustic sound...
The anthem is great on paper but the pathetically low volume compared to its counterparts the element and the lyrics renders it almost useless, got rid of it and was glad, the element worked much better despite having no mic
The LR Baggs Lyric for me. Although still different, there are more similarities to the sound I think. I still think the AP5 Pro in Maton Guitars is the closest I’ve ever heard to the acoustic sound, going through an AER Compact 60, or De Capo 75 amp. Cheers
I AGREE….I HAVE 2 J200s, i with Fishman and 1 with Baggs, but my Maton custom small jumbo is the nearest to unplugged sound direct into Bose L1 S.
You are spot on bud, that set up leaves everything else for dead !
journey picups are the best
Tommy Emmanuel plays a Maton and he sounds great. Does he use the AP5 Pro?
I agree I have a Maton and there is nothing that sounds as good as the AP5
Overall the K& K mini to my ears. What was surprising to me was not how the acoustasonic sounded cheap ( not unexpected) mic'd but how good it sounded with the pick up.
Probably a condenser set of microphones are best
Next best would be an impulse response capture, specific for your pickup type
I liked the K&K the best. They have a preamp that supposedly makes it even closer. I almost bought the system for my guitar, but settled on the Mojotone sound hole pickup because it sounded better to me. I wish more TH-camrs would review it and give it a try.
K&k for me en journey picups the best acoustic pickup for les dollar eddy from Belgium
On most of my acoustics i’ve installed the k&k trinity (undersaddle +mic) which goes into their preamp. And I have to say it is very close to the acoustic sound :) As in all systems with a mic be aware of the feedback in live settings and bring a feedback buster along..
I first bought the Mojotone NC-1 soundhole pickup for my mahogany Martin. Best sound I heard from a magnetic pickup, but it still sounds like a magnetic pickup. It also had so much background noise it ruined soft playing. Furthermore, it easily picked up RF interference from the mains, so I basically ended up with a constant 4Khz tone depending on which venue I played in. The NC-1 is advertised as having a noise cancelling quiet coil, it's anything but that. Loudest noise I've ever heard in a pickup.
I sent it back and then tried the L.R. Baggs M80 which was much quieter, but didn't sound as good as the NC-1. Both pickups had a bit of that electric guitar sound, especially when strumming hard or playing percussively. Inevitable for magnetic pickups.
I then tried the L.R. Baggs Anthem, which sounded amazing (when using the mic), but turning up the volume just a little bit introduced a lot of feedback, which wasn't viable for me since I play loud gigs in unpredictable venues. Unavoidable for mic pickups.
I sent the Anthem back and finally settled for the K&K Pure Mini with the soundhole-mounted volume wheel (no preamp needed). My guitar now sounds much more like an acoustic, has absolutely zero noise and resists feedback well. It's a tiny bit quacky since it's a piezo but thanks to its sticky transducers it is far less quacky than other under-saddle piezos. Either way you're gonna need some EQ for any acoustic pickup. The K&K sounds much more natural than any magnetic pickup to my ears, doesn't get in the way of my playing and is much less hassle.
I'd rank them like this.
1. the Stage Pro Anthem on the Furch.
Might be one of my favorite systems currently, sounds great and is super versatile. There's eq controls on the thing so there's no justification to complain about lack of high end :)
2. the ES2 on the Taylor.
The perfect allarounder in my opinion. Enough controls, the Piezo technology is reliable but it sounds much livelier than other Piezos because of the way it's installed.
I'd highly recommend it for someone who doesn't wanna fuss around and just want a good sounding yet simple system.
3. the Lyric on that Huss & Dalton.
It's a microphone so it's obviously the most realistic sounding, and it's a good addition to an undersaddle or magnetic system, but would not necessarily trust it as the lone system for live use on a big stage. I did try it on a friend of mine's guitar through a relatively loud PA and it was indeed really nice with no feedback!
I do wish it had EQ controls, I wish there was a Stage Pro version of this but I'd get away with just that tiny presence control. this (and the Stage Pro Anthem) are the only systems that I'd say can actually replace the practice of micing the guitar in the studio, with good enough processing.
the K&K on the Waterloo.
A good allarounder like the Taylor, sounds slightly livelier than it but at the expense of reliability for live use. I have experienced this pickup on an oud nontheless and it sounded incredible and lively!
I do think it needs some controls, at least you can pair it with an active preamp from K&K. It is great though for players who have already built their acoustic rig, especially as an addition to another more reliable system but not only.
5. the Prefix on the J185.
If we have to stick with just an undersaddle Piezo it might aswell have more controls and more ways to shape it to add the right frequencies you'd associate with an acoustic guitar. Might not be the most realistic, but can definitely hold its own and is very reliable for live use.
6. A tie between the the Sonitone on the Guild Baritone the the Element VTC on the Sheeran.
Both are the only systems that get a thumbs down from me. Both don't sound good on their own and are very limited in what they can do, no tweakability.
Would recommend staying away from these two systems unless you already built your acoustic rig or plan to add one of the non Piezo systems above.
the Stage Pro version of the Element has much more control and is much better because of that, and the Fishman Matrix has the same amount of controls like the Sonitone but much smarter controls (as the tone knob is not a low pass filter but a treble and bass expander).
Also, can't judge the Acoustasonic compared to them because of the clipping and the fact it's quite a different beast, I wouldn't even want it to sound "realistic", from what I've heard it's as reliable as the guitar itself.
Well brother J, you just convinced me that my initial thinking still stands. The better choice in my mind is to simply mic my acoustics. By the way, that tele grabbed my attention. The acoustisonic line sounds fantastic plugged in. I can see why you are a fan.
1000% :)
Huss and dalton sounded the best. I have found that no pickup is perfect. I use the tone dexter preamp and it has fixed the issues I’ve had with all pickups.
same here. Tone Dexter!
Yamaha SRT system with integrated ir works really good, atmosfeel is the newer variant.also maton a5 should work, Tomy Emmanuel is a user
LR Baggs Lyric easily...and put this into a serious preamp or DI it will get you the best sound for sure.....in my opinion and just using this video as a reference. Thank you for doing this no nonsense review. Perfect!!
I have a Lyric in my 70's Takamine (Martin lawsuit era) and it was the closest I could get to the guitar sounding the same plugged in and with my ears. The Lyric does have a tiny, screwdriver operated tone control on it to help tame the highs and stop it from feeding back. I dialed it back almost all the way and now it sounds like the guitar in the room when I plug it into my interface or PA.
i got the lr baggs lyric. it with a good eq sounds perfect. the bad part is the sensibility of the mic. get all the sound of the contact for the guitar on your body (learning english)
Thanks for this comparison! It really helpes to decide which pickup I want.
I liked the K&K best. I got it in one of my guitars and I think I'll take another one in my other guitar.
Great video. This helped me a LOT making a decision on my next pick up for my Martin CEO-7. I currently have a Fishman active pick up with a nasty hum and I want to replace it. I thought the K&K definitely had the most natural sound and I really love its simplicity. I use the Fishman Aura DI box as well so I can blend that with my stored images and hopefully get it dialed in nicely.
Hi man😊 I have the same guitar. I spent a lot of time to find the best pickup system solution for this particular guitar. I highly recommend you to try Journey tek pickup system. Even the simplest Journey transducer sounds much more natural and pleasant for me than bunch of magnetic pickups, undersaddle piezo and etc. I remove the lr baggs lyric from my guitar, which sounds just terrible and absolutely happy with it. It's really capturing the natural sound of the instrument and add nothing. Lr baggs lyric for example sounds good, but shifts the frequency to high range that this guitar do not really features.
Please try the Shatten HFN (passive or active). From my ears it seems the closest to a real mic. It is magic! And it is not so expensive. And noninvasive...
Will do
Hello Jeremy, I can't tell you which "on-board" guitar system I like the best but I will echo what has been said below, the guitars played through the open air microphone produces the best sound to me. Thank you for the videos.
The K and K for me, it has an uncoloured flat sound that just requires some EQ to bring it up. K and K make an outboard preamp voiced for the pickup too. No batteries, lovely. Quite possibly job done!
What model is the K&K preamp?
my yamaha fsx3 with their Atmosfeel system is fantastic….even anthem or kk mini don’t come close. Please include in your next compatison!
The Lyric sounded close to the real guitar. I’m going to listen again because I would replace the pickup In my Yamaha LL16 D
After 7000 live gigs I’d say no pickup delivers an acoustic sound. Closest are the microphones, either off-board or on-board, but they’re impractical for high sound pressures/volume. I find the Anthem with a mic and piezo the best practical alternative. You can blend the elements or hear them separately, whatever suits your situation. A good EQ/DI, reverb and processing will make a huge difference to the sound you can achieve from any pickup. Enjoy the ride!
One additional comment Jeremy.. I’ve read through all of the comments thus far and come to a conclusion about something - I’m happy that I ran across your channel recently, because you have an audience that knows their stuff, myself excluded. I’m grateful to folks like you, who stepped out there financially to help bring an interactive format for others to benefit from. Very impressive brother J! Thanks again
Absolute proof that pickups are completely pointless in high end acoustic guitars.
How so?
@brendancurtis7848 you're not going to be able to hear the complexity of tones that a high end acoustic has unplugged. There really isn't a good acoustic guitar pickup out there. The best bet is an external mic like the old bluegrass guys. If you're going to buy an awesome high end guitar, don't slap a bunch of electronics inside that interfere with how the top would naturally reverberate. For live play with a pickup, a playable mid quality guitar is a better work horse.
Exactly
@@nickzav Agree ! Still understand why people mics high end guitars, as the feel and playability is also a factor. But the only way to hear the wonderful sounds of a great acoustic is clean.
Unless you wanna use one live :)
I like the fishman one!
What I got from this is that-- when choosing a guitar the application needs to be kept in mind. If you play unplugged then choose an instrument for that purpose or if amplified what tone is the goal?
As someone who owns a Taylor 510 with an LR Baggs Anthem Stagepro, I think the one you have might not have the mic dialled in correctly. There’s a small screw inside the battery compartment & the mic adds high end & clarity. When you went to the “mic only” blend, it’s actually a split frequency with the element handling just the lows (the element is never off). I’d expect that to sound full & clear but it instead sounded as if the mic blend was dialled back so it lost clarity. Moving the slider to full element pickup removes the mic from the sound & goes to Baggs version of a piezo.
I used to be a K&K guy, but recently have switched to the Anthem. Sounds great in my D35 once I've got it eqed! Just like having a mic without being stuck on stage with a mic. I'm also gonna guess that the pick up will need to be paired with the guitar....some pick ups might actually sound better in different guitars!
Based on the comments I’ve read, it’s obvious that each individual’s choice is completely dependent on his/her own ear. The bottom line is that none of them accurately duplicate the acoustic sound…and that’s kinda sad.
True! That was pretty much my entire point. It's nearly impossible to make your guitar sound like your guitar only louder.
@@JeremySheppard Jeremy, have you tried running a good EQ pedal between the guitar and amp? Or via the effects loop? I'm thinking this would 1. Give you an EQ without having to mount a panel on the shoulder of the guitar, and 2. Give you much more control over the EQ than you would have with an onboard EQ. I haven't done this, but looking to electrify my Yamaha acoustic to start playing out for the first time. Would much rather plug in than mic it. What are your thoughts?
For my years the closest match is Taylor`s Expression System 2. K&K is #2
Maybe just use condenser mics or the Fishman, LR Bags, or Nufx IR preamps?
The Baggs Lyric has a presence control. It’s important to adjust it for a natural tone when installing. It’s adjusted with a plastic screwdriver, so not intended for use on the bandstand.
The K&K is great BUT because it is passive its output is completely dependent on the quality of the PA. I would them all the time, but you can have them through some PAs and they are fine, but with others they are so quiet as to more or less inaudible. So I end up taking a preamp everywhere, which rather destroys the point.
The LR Baggs Pro stage Anthem sounded the most natural in my opinion,and the Fender Player in the acoustic setting not bad at all...great video!
Hey brother Jeremy! I have found that I cannot stand acoustic guitar pick ups. Therefore, for the last several years I have been using a DPA-4099G condenser mic that attaches to the guitar. You might give this a good look/listen, I think it is the truest acoustic sound I have found to date. Thanks for the great videos! Keep up the great work!
I have a K&K in one of my guitars and I'm really happy with the sound but I don't think I would use it through a large PA with potential for feedback. I use a Fishman Rare Earth blend on my 70s Bozo and I love it!
Yep Fishman rare earth blend is THE live acoustic pickup imho.
I vote for the Furch as top sounding. I have a Baggs Anthem SL in my Martin 00015 Streetmaster and it sounds great. I run it through a Radial Passive Pro DI to the mixer at church.
Love the LRBAGGS LYRIC in my Martin Custom Shop OO-18 & FISHMAN RARE EARTH BLEND in a Martin OOO-28 (didnt require Permanent Installation) but won’t be changing because of the Great Sound I’m Able to Get!
I do use an LRBAGGS VENUE DI but it’s not a Necessity…played without and never think about those Pickups in those Martins until I watch a Demo Video. Thank You for the Extra Effort in your Video Jeremy, the Time it MUST TAKE in Comparing All of those!
The Lyric is the winner in my book. Followed closely by the pure mini. Thank you for this revealing video
The Gibson J185 sounded sublime in all modes.Lovely
just got a masterbilt Indonesian texan. paid over 720.00usd
has a USED stamp claiming blemishes in the finish, but the headstock CNC drill holes are off at least 5/32 on the treble side and causes the treble #3 peg to sit too close to the headstock and interferes with normal tuning. a stringwinder keeps hitting the headstock. the tuner its self is stiff and resists rotation.
then along with sharp fret ends, there are at least six high frets causing the b and high e to buzz and fret out. the other strings buzz and partially ring then mute from several high frets at the soundhole end of the fretboard.
the string volume balance is not correct after many resets and repositioning of the pickup and bridge along with the ust. i have achieved a very organic plugged in acoustic reflection from the sonitone system, that would serve admirably if the treble strings could balance and not fret out or buzz. I was surprised.
in summery; this guitar should have never left the factory floor as it is sub-par. not worth seven bills. did not expect a custom shop axe but dang. got a lr baggs anthem on the way. plus going to fret level, crown and polish it my self. cain't afford to pay anyone. stay away from USED STAMPS.
With the K&K being a passive pickup, it may sound better if you plug it into a preamp with a higher input impedance (ideally 10 MΩ, I'm not sure what the input impedance on the interface you used is). Low input impedance can have a sort of high-pass filter effect on piezo pickups. That may help open up the bass response and make it a really good sounding pickup.
I have a 2018 Martin OM28 with a passive KnK mini, going into an original Yamaha AG Stomp, then into a Roland AC 60 acoustic amp. I go out of the Roland's bass out jack, and into a bass/keyboard amp. It sounds great.
I liked the K&K pure mini as the closest pickup sounding like the acoustic, and will get it installed on guitars that may need electronics. I bought a guitar with a K&K Trinity and that sounds super. I've also bought into Martin's version of a Fishman Aura and that make the amplified sound like the guitar sounds acoustically. I also have Taylor guitars and the ESP2 works/sounds fine. I don't plug in much because of where I play so the K&K is my preference.
For the Anthem, sounds like you have yet to adjust the presence knob under the battery cover…that’s why it sounds so muffled here. Turn it about 80% to the right and it should sound better
Yeah... If you're using a piezo pickup mostly for that guitars purposes then just get whatever guitar you think looks best. Cuz it won't matter what it sounds like unplugged. You're hearing the strings and the breaking points.
That lyric mic was nice. It needs a preamp.
Oh and fishman has proprietary pickups for a certain body size. The mod technology in the fender acoustisonic is that with a selectable sweep. The fender higher end California acoustics is the same as the paramount system. I think the high end fishman in the higher end orangewood guitars is like that too. So the preamp mods it to sound more natural. So it's not the natural tone but neither it the peizo tone to begin with so eh whatever.
For me you can't go wrong with a Fishman Rare Earth! (not featured in the vid). I do get feedback problems quite a lot tho through the moniters when on stage (but that could be down to the sound engineer). Despit that it's always sounded great out front! And it doesn't take much technique to rectify the feedback when playing, muting the strings and such you can get a great percussive sound.x
K&K and Anthem sound most usable stage sound.
Also, #1. the Takamine CoolTube 3 pre-amp with the Palathetic piezo sounds great. The Palathetic has an element for each string, and is mechanically locked to the bridge and top… actually sounds like an acoustic guitar when you dial in the tube effect.
#2. Seymour Duncan MagMic sounds really good… Humbucker with condenser mic.
Takamine is by far the most accurate acoustic sounding pickup/preamp out there.
@@kevinlbrockway yep… sold my Takamine P4DC CoolTube3, because I retired and moved to Phoenix with sub 10% humidity. Replaced it with RainSong jumbo with LR Baggs Stagepro Anthem, which is a really good pickup. But, I could plug the Takamine straight into a board with no effects, and it sounded great EVERY time… gotta play around with the Anthem to get it sounding really good. Guess we can’t have it all,(don’t think Takamine will start making carbon fiber guitars)… oh well.
The LRB Anthem gets my vote. Mines on a 20yr old Epiphone and being able to blend the piezo and mic is priceless. I'll probably swap it onto my Guild OM140ce and replace the OEM Fishman GT1 (which also sounds good). Biggest concern with a mic pickup is feedback but I rarely play loud enough to cause that...
This video earned my subscription. Great work sir!
You need to check out Cole Clarke made in Australia. The have their own Cole Clark PG3 pickup system. They designed a pickup and built a guitar around it. Sounds natural, sounds amazing! Cole Clarke are really big on being environmentally friendly and only use sustainable timbers. The vast majority are from Australian trees. I bought an Angel 2 (AN2EC-BLBL) around 6 months ago with Australian Blackwood top sides and back. Looks and sounds amazing. Very underrated guitars.
I’ve heard of this Australian guitar brand before. I really hope Jeremy gets his hands on a Cole Clarke ASAP. To build a guitar entirely around a pickup system is thinking outside the box (literally!), and I’m dying to hear what the end results sounds like! After this experiment, a Cole Clarke should be a follow up video to see if guitar designers should thinking differently when they want to consider integrating pickups into their guitars.
The problem, overall, is that you can’t possibly reproduce sound being projected at out ears when the pickup is placed insides a boomy box or is using vibration from the soundboard. It’s not scientifically possible. Think about what we hear when moving a mic around a room. The mic placement is going to change what our ears hear. The best chance of reproducing the sound is probably to use a mic pickup placed on the outside of the sound hole (which Jeremy should also try as a follow up experiment on each of these guitars) since it won’t be as boomy and weird sounding as inside mic placement and won’t sound as tinny as some piezo’s using vibration.
At the end of the day, I don’t think it’s scientifically possible to get pickups to sound exactly the same. They should sound nice for what they are, but they can’t possibly sound exactly like a guitar naturally does in a room once the sound projects out of the sound hole.
Bottom line: If you don’t place a mic outside, expect it to sound different when you use a pickup. I think it’s easier not to get disappointed if you take pickups on face value rather than comparing to mics, but that’s difficult once you know how beautiful acoustics sound. Most of the audience sadly won’t be able to tell the difference.
So is Jeremy going to give us HIS opinion, btw?! I hope he will in a follow up. 😉
I’d also like to add another point to my comment above. I was also realizing that the amp will also change the sound of the pickup. Some may sound better or worse with other amps. Did Jeremy say whether he recorded these pickups from a miked amp or directly into his computer? Even the computer’s DAW and other hardware may make a difference.
A more scientifically accurate test would be to use the SAME EXACT MODEL GUITAR, with a really neutral acoustic amp, and each of the different pickups installs. When you try to do what Jeremy did, it’s tough to say which pickup sounds the most similar to the guitar when there are so many variables in the sound properties of the guitars he’s using. If you use the same model and install each pickup in the most optimal manner for that specific model, you’re evening the playing field and getting a more accurate representation that can then fairly compare the pickups’ accuracy across the board. Maybe Jeremy can find a company that would be willing to loan/give him the same model of 20 guitars and a variety of pickup models, and whatever else is needed to even the playing field (like the most neutral amp, maybe getting him to an isolated sound chamber or a large venue space to conduct the experiment, etc.) so he can do a more scientifically fair comparison? I bet #Sweetwater would totally sponsor this sort of experiment, which would help the acoustic guitar world considerably! Nobody has ever done this sort of thing before. There’s gotta be a company that would partner with J to do this. Or maybe a magazine like #GuitarWorld would sponsor the experiment, write an article, and publish Jeremy’s video results on their channel.
What do you think, Jeremy? Can you try to make this happen? I think it would greatly benefit the guitar world and put you on the map in a big way!
The Maton AP5 Pro is better than the Cole Clark pick ups
I’m not a Taylor guy but there pickup seemed to represent the sound of the guitar the best.
yes id i recall there was something to work with EQ wise to tune it in but had potential - also not a Taylor gy but maybe now will consider it. Still a Baggs M1 fan
Nice job. I can't believe the only one I liked through the pickup was the Fender - and that's a whole different category.
While listening I did wonder whether you might get somewhat closer to the acoustic sound by tweaking the EQ, tone and volume controls.
I personally like the sound of all with just a mic. I think the Taylor sounds more acoustic than the rest, the Waterloo next. That being said the K&K was really close and I think it would have been better with a pre-amp. I think that it would have made been a more fair test since it was the only passive pickup.
Agree…
I use the Bartlett Audio Guitar EJ. It is a high quality, omni-directional, which is installed inside the guitar body. It connects via an endpin jack (thus the EJ). The XLR connector, on the other end, contains an EQ circuit to reverse the bloat and honk sometimes characterized by guitar internal mics. Bartlett is the former microphone designer for Crown, and now does this in his semi-retirement. You can find sound samples online.
I think the L.R. Baggs Lyric Acoustic was the least-offensive sound. I have a new Martin 000-15M with the Presys + system and the sound is much different with the pickup system. In a pinch it will do just fine and I can adjust the tone enough to not be too aggravated - but for the other 99% of the time I won't use the pickup at all. The Fishman Sonitone GT-1 sounded awful to me - like the sound was bubbling up from the depths of the ocean. The funniest thing to me is that my PRS Hollowbody II Piezo with the L.R. Baggs Piezo bridge pickup, sounds more like an acoustic that half of the acoustic guitars you featured. Great video! I think everybody will agree with you that these pickups are all over-promising and under-delivering!
Nice demonstration Jeremy. It's frustrating to hear a beautiful guitar's tone turn into "piezo quack". Often, especially with streaming, the player doesn't really hear it as much as the listener because they can still hear the acoustic sound of the guitar, unless they use very good closed back headphones as a monitor. It would have been nice to hear the Fishman Aura VT or Matrix Enhance VT systems in the mix, they add a transducer to the piezo signal from under the saddle. I have the Aura on my Dread and the Matrix on my 000 and they sound good to me through the mixer. That being said, nothing compares to the sound captured by my Zoom H5 with an XY mic a couple of feet in front of the sound hole. I have heard it said that it's just not possible to capture what you want with any microphone or pickup system INSIDE a guitar, when the sound you want to capture is IN FRONT of the guitar.
I put an LR Baggs Anthem SL in my vintage Sigma DR-28 a while back. Still was unsatisfied with how it sounded plugged in so ended up making my own IR (Impulse Response) for it using a mic'd up recording of it as reference. Now it sounds almost exactly like it does mic'd up when plugged in through a pedal that can use IRs. Of course that's only EQ wise and no where near the same dynamic signal as what you'd get through microphones but a huge improvement.
I think it's probably the next step for acoustic guitar manufacturers. Creating built in IR processing units in the pickup systems and creating custom IRs for each individual guitar that comes out of the factory so that no matter what you plug into, it sounds like a mic'd up version of that guitar
I stripped the ES2 out of my 3 series Grand Symph & had a K&K Trinity installed. Crazy difference.
Odd man out, but the best and least distorted acoustic amplified sound comes through the mic ... the one mounted on the floor stand in front of the guitar.
Back in the late '70s and early '80s I went to many concerts. CSN&Y played Martins through mics. Everyone else was playing Ovations.
You have several delightful guitars and are truly fortunate. I would consider playing with a mic, or smaller rooms and use the Telecaster if you must plug in.
. . . Well noted John - from early '70's onwards to around late '80's , Ovations were almost on every stage. No better sounding guitar - especially the decades-ahead-of it's-time ' A D A M A S '
when all played plugged- in .
What say you , Jeremy ?..
@@donaldcook3112 Jeremy has previously stated that he thoroughly dislikes all things Ovation. Perhaps if he was older he might appreciate them for what they were at first time and the role they played, the hole they filled.
I have a 12 fret slotted head Ovation with a thin wide neck which played beautifully. Of course, it has issues today and I rarely play it now. But it holds a permanent place in my heart and development as a player to this day. It was the "Folklore" model. I have no regrets and would buy another if I could.
K&K I two of my guitars and about to put a third into my HD-28
The microphones are the best sounding, both the active condensor as well as the passive ones.
I have had the LR Baggs Element on a seagull guitar and loved it once I got it dialed in. I also have had and liked the LR Baggs dual source (an earlier version) and that sounded quite different. More mic in the mic if you know what I mean. Yours seemed muffled sounding for some reason. I was impressed with the Taylor system here actually.
Anthem EQ I meant not the element since it appears I can't edit this comment.
The Zoom H2n was quite a bit away from the guitar and picked up a lot of room sound. The mic recordings were also louder. I wouldve used a standard sm57 near the edge of the fretboard at about 10cm, then try to get as close to the sound as possible using the pickup and preamp using eq. Almost every pickup system needs eq finetuning.
Yeah, external microphones are the best option. I’m partial to the LRBaggs M80 as a pickup, but that’s mostly because I hate the piezo quacky sound.
I have to be honest, I think I liked the Taylor Expression System the best. I have a Boucher SG-52-C with the Fishman Matrix Infinity and also a Taylor 614ce with the Expression System. The Boucher outplays the Taylor acoustically. But when I'm out on a gig, I play the Taylor because of the pickup sound. And also because I don't want anything happen to my Boucher. 😉
With a name like Boucher, that means a lot. I can't wait to get a boucher.
The K & K pure mini wins hands down for me. I have one installed in a Baby Taylor and it sounds fantastic. I've also got K & Ks in a mandolin and an octave mandolin and they all sound very close to the acoustic tone
Great comparison! Thank you.
One of my pet peeves is when acoustic-electric piezo pickups are recorded directly into the board. They need to be played through a speaker, and then mic up the speaker, so you can hear some actual sound waves moving through air (you know, just like with an acoustic guitar into a microphone).
Another fun thing: The natural acoustic tone of an Ovation sounds eerily similar to a piezo sound, along with a natural volume and projection. In the eternal struggle to get an amplified acoustic to sound like the natural sound, they moved the natural sound closer to the pickup tone!
The Taylor expression number 1 without a doubt.
The K&K number 2 .
But if I was to put a pick in my guitar it would have to be K&K .
I know especially LR Baggs and Fishman are up there as top top pick up manufacturers but in this video (and had good headphones on ) sounded absolutely terrible .
Sorry Baggs and Fishman fans but that's my opinion .
Good video Jeremy .
Guitar line up incredible.
All of these pickups require a good eq; I have tried all of them and to be honest the most natural sound i have found is a K and K Pure mini with the Baggs Voiceprint DI. Great video though and super helpful for many people i assume. The K and K is a very difficult pickup to beat pricewise with the quality you get. In this video, the K and K still sounds the most natural to me. In my mind that doesnt make sense because youd think the lyric would.....but it doesnt.....
The problem with acoustic pickup comparisons is that you never know how much effort went into making the combination sound its best. Unless you're very lucky, you won't get the best of it just by installing and plugging in. It takes some experimenting and tweaking the EQ and settings all up and down the chain, especially with more complex systems like those that blend an internal mic and a pickup. A good preamp, preamp/DI or Preamp/IR loader and some experimenting can make the difference between an ok sound and a really satisfying sound.
Well, Damn. Maybe the Anthem
Or K&K. The Taylor pretty good
I use Fishman Rare Earth Blend pickups I have a variety of other pickups that came pre installed
UST. They all suck
Thanks for doing this
I gotta be honest, I hate most of them. The K&K Pure Mini is about the best, but needs a bit of eq & volume boost...
The thing I like about the K&K best is it is more unobtrusive in it's installation, which makes it ideal for unmolested guitars like my Martin 0-18.
Love the Lyric and K&Ks. I have Lyrics in several guitars and people come up at gigs and say (paraphrasing) "that's what an acoustic is supposed to sound like." K&K is a close second to my ears.
Hi Jeremy.... See if you can get your hands on an older Yamaha A series guitar that has the SRT system (version 1). I was very impressed with that pickup system/preamp. I sold the guitar because I preferred a slightly wider neck. BUT... I sure do miss the Yamaha when put through an amp/PA system.
LR Baggs Lyric was it. Thanks for the audio !!
Thank you for this important comparison video! I think that from all the systems that you played, the most decent and naturall sounding is the L.R. Baggs Stagepro Anthem.
One of the main reasons I recently bought a Maton Joe Robinson signature model (except that anyway it's an amazing guitar accoustically) is the amazing and most naturall sounding pickup system that it has.
To my ears, the other (kind of) decent systems are the Fishman Prefix Pro Blend and the Fishman Rare Earth Mic Blend (and the L.R. Baggs Stagepro Anthem of course).
But still none of these can beat the Maton AP5 Pro!!
K&K or Lyric. I’m a touring FoH guy and musician as a side gig. I have K&K in all my acoustic guitars with a minor installation mod. I run my guitars through a Teegarden Audio Magic Di, no tweaking needed at this point. It’s the combination I’ve been trying to find this combination for 35 years. It’s like the Magic Di gets out of the way and let’s the acoustic properties come through. All the harmonics and overtones are there
Nothing beats a good mic or two, something we've known for decades. Thanks for proving it once again.
I agree for the purity of tone but really don't enjoy having a microphone live.
Yes if you're playing on your own in a place where nobody is talking, bring in some crowd noise or some of extra musicians to play with and then feedback will be a deal breaker
anthem mic wasn't hot enough. I put mine all the way to the mic then a smidge back. Sometimes I take some highs off, but it's very close to how my Taylor 414ce sounds. You have to know how to use your pickup. The piezo in that pickup will overpower the mic if it's not dialed in right and it will be very bassy!
I have the K&K Trinity system in my Collings. Bummer you didn’t get to demo one here! I play it through a PA multiple times per week, and the comment I get the most is “I’ve never heard an acoustic sound that good through a PA before!”. That’s from both engineers and laypeople. Definitely worth the money.
The Fishman Prefix Plus was so close that I didn't realize you had switched except for reading it. The Lr Baggs Anthem at 50/50 sounded the same but it was a lot quieter than the mic you use for comparison which kinda throws a person off.
I think you just saved me some money. I was researching possible upgrades to my stock Fishman Classic 4 piezo system. But maybe I’ll just stick with what I’ve got. The Anthem gets so much hype but it doesn’t seem to be much of an improvement based on this. Piezos are unforgiving and unflattering. But they’re fairly easy to EQ into something serviceable for a mix. I just wish they didn’t emphasize every rattle and buzz and make the guitar sound in need of a setup. The LR Baggs Element seems to be an improvement over the Fishman but not enough to justify the expense and work of replacing what I’ve already got.
just installed a MiSi MOTIF. it has a preamp, but. no battery. You plug a cable into the endpin. from a wall wart and it charges the preamp for about 6 hrs. Most natural sound I've found. I've been a fishman infinity fan for a long time due to it's consistency. ,but this is way better natural sounding pickup.
I think it has a lot to do with what your running your guitar through. I ran my guitar (Parker Fly Deluxe w/piezo) straight into a Roland SRE 555, then that goes straight into a old peavey acoustic amp. I also had to make an adjustment to the piezo tone under the back cover panel of the guitar and a ball of wax. It sounded exactly any acoustic guitar you heard on the radio.
I enjoyed your video with my buddy John Wohlford at the Gibson Garage. John is a great guy.... and like you ...he knows his stuff!
K&K Pure Mini going to buy one for my 1976 Gibson J-200 artist. Sold! on the K&K