everyone i know who has trained with martin says he is the real deal. And i do systema myself so know that in many drills as attacker you do somewhat sacrifice yourself to aid the learning experience. And with that said this does look like a very very compliant attacker. Wish there was some commentary on the vid that addresses this because i suspect that the teaching point here is being lost without that.
I understand the need for somewhat compliant feeders to assist in practicing certain attributes, I get the point of drills, but I cannot figure out the purpose behind the guy falling down after the guy rolls his shoulder. Anyone explain a bit more?
I'll help you out there. Whenever you grab or place your hand on any surface, there's a bit of surface tension that makes you stuck to it. If it moves, you move as well. That shoulder roll wasn't just a shoulder roll. When that guys hand touch his shoulder, it was on the same plane as the shoulder. Martin rolls the shoulder and sorta leans his body weight back causing two things - the angle of the hand to change and be bent way back, and his body weight to put a good deal of pressure on the wrist at an extreme angle. The guy dropping down like that is not some over exaggeration. He moves himself away like that because the sudden weight on the wrist sucks so moving away quickly is the only way to relieve the pressure.
@@bruhinthewild Thank you for your insight. Perhaps there is an element I'm just not understanding. For my examples, 0:49, 0:51, are complete BS. There is nothing "sticking" the feeders hand to Wheeler and there is no reason whatsoever it would remain there except for demonstration. I understand the idea behind redirecting an assailants force, that's not what's happening here though. The feeder is literally placing his hand him and contorting himself to maintain that exact hand position. I don't see an applicable situation for this barring Systema demonstration. I still have an open mind, but my current view of *certain systema practices ranks right there with other *certain practices of Aikido. Both have good concepts and techniques, both also have total garbage. Without additional context/information, I'm pretty I'm witnessing some garbage within this video.
@@russman738 Hard to say when we can only see it and not feel it yourself. But I can tell you that in both those time stamps, the person is being brought pass his base of sustenance. Now of course, he is semi compliant there. But if a person still is intent on grabbing you, changing your body position even subtly can throw them off balance. It's not much what you do to the person, but what the person decides he wants to pursue. If he pursues, he throws himself off balance. It would have been better to disconnect instead of trying to apply more pressure from a compromised position.
@@bruhinthewild I can certainly concede that describing a shift in weight/balance is nothing compared to feeling the shift in weight/balance. I am dubious, but will maintain an open mind until I can experience it. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
@@russman738 Sure thing bro. But in all fairness, most people, with a fair bit of training, wouldn't just be hanging on. They most certainly would disconnect once the felt the didn't have the balance. But really, this is just for the sake for demonstrating how tension can be manipulating without actual grabbing. You would probably only be able to exploit it in a very short time window of less than a second. Try it out yourself. It's weird but its doable. I had someone do it to me. Didn't register at first cuz it was quick.
If you're TRULY interested in that, then go to a freaking seminar put on by Vladimir Vasiliev or Martin Wheeler and quit typing crap like that on here. Go to these channels and see what Dan the Wolfman Theodore has to say about Systema, with 34 years in the martial arts and MMA. th-cam.com/channels/a9GJ28f8CIVNtU25Gt-ZYw.htmlsearch?query=systema , th-cam.com/channels/QI9S-9hXoXUf3lNP-pQh5g.htmlsearch?query=systema Or how about listen to Rigan Machado, one of the greatest BJJ blackbelts of all time and why he decided to open a martial arts academy with Martin Wheeler (the guy above) and why he recommends Systema to ALL his students to become better. People like you hate on things you don't understand and CAN'T comprehend. Go try it for yourself, and see if you're not a better person and fighter/protector afterward and if, like MANY master martial artists/champion fighters, you decide to practice Systema for life because your first experience will alter everything you thought you knew. Martin Wheeler started Systema because he was an accomplished black belt in Kemp and judo for 22 years and went to a Systema seminar, and Vladimir Vasiliev used him as a tutorial volunteer and completely dismantled him effortlessly while laughing and talking with the other students, making him feel like he was boxing at the air in a dark room for the past 22 years.
After all the testemonies i've read, i believe Martin Wheeler is making this work. I guess it's easy money for con-men to present themselves as teachers, because it seems a fine line between expert and fraud by just looking at it. And it doesn't help that it looks a bit like aikido.
everyone i know who has trained with martin says he is the real deal. And i do systema myself so know that in many drills as attacker you do somewhat sacrifice yourself to aid the learning experience. And with that said this does look like a very very compliant attacker. Wish there was some commentary on the vid that addresses this because i suspect that the teaching point here is being lost without that.
yeh but what he is teaching here is impractical
@@GilesHartop
do you understand what he is teaching?
I understand the need for somewhat compliant feeders to assist in practicing certain attributes, I get the point of drills, but I cannot figure out the purpose behind the guy falling down after the guy rolls his shoulder. Anyone explain a bit more?
I'll help you out there. Whenever you grab or place your hand on any surface, there's a bit of surface tension that makes you stuck to it. If it moves, you move as well. That shoulder roll wasn't just a shoulder roll. When that guys hand touch his shoulder, it was on the same plane as the shoulder. Martin rolls the shoulder and sorta leans his body weight back causing two things - the angle of the hand to change and be bent way back, and his body weight to put a good deal of pressure on the wrist at an extreme angle. The guy dropping down like that is not some over exaggeration. He moves himself away like that because the sudden weight on the wrist sucks so moving away quickly is the only way to relieve the pressure.
@@bruhinthewild Thank you for your insight. Perhaps there is an element I'm just not understanding. For my examples, 0:49, 0:51, are complete BS. There is nothing "sticking" the feeders hand to Wheeler and there is no reason whatsoever it would remain there except for demonstration.
I understand the idea behind redirecting an assailants force, that's not what's happening here though. The feeder is literally placing his hand him and contorting himself to maintain that exact hand position. I don't see an applicable situation for this barring Systema demonstration. I still have an open mind, but my current view of *certain systema practices ranks right there with other *certain practices of Aikido. Both have good concepts and techniques, both also have total garbage. Without additional context/information, I'm pretty I'm witnessing some garbage within this video.
@@russman738 Hard to say when we can only see it and not feel it yourself. But I can tell you that in both those time stamps, the person is being brought pass his base of sustenance. Now of course, he is semi compliant there. But if a person still is intent on grabbing you, changing your body position even subtly can throw them off balance. It's not much what you do to the person, but what the person decides he wants to pursue. If he pursues, he throws himself off balance. It would have been better to disconnect instead of trying to apply more pressure from a compromised position.
@@bruhinthewild I can certainly concede that describing a shift in weight/balance is nothing compared to feeling the shift in weight/balance. I am dubious, but will maintain an open mind until I can experience it. Thanks for taking the time to reply to me.
@@russman738 Sure thing bro. But in all fairness, most people, with a fair bit of training, wouldn't just be hanging on. They most certainly would disconnect once the felt the didn't have the balance. But really, this is just for the sake for demonstrating how tension can be manipulating without actual grabbing. You would probably only be able to exploit it in a very short time window of less than a second. Try it out yourself. It's weird but its doable. I had someone do it to me. Didn't register at first cuz it was quick.
I would be very interested to see this system pressure tested in a full contact demonstration against a boxer or kick boxer.
If you're TRULY interested in that, then go to a freaking seminar put on by Vladimir Vasiliev or Martin Wheeler and quit typing crap like that on here. Go to these channels and see what Dan the Wolfman Theodore has to say about Systema, with 34 years in the martial arts and MMA. th-cam.com/channels/a9GJ28f8CIVNtU25Gt-ZYw.htmlsearch?query=systema , th-cam.com/channels/QI9S-9hXoXUf3lNP-pQh5g.htmlsearch?query=systema
Or how about listen to Rigan Machado, one of the greatest BJJ blackbelts of all time and why he decided to open a martial arts academy with Martin Wheeler (the guy above) and why he recommends Systema to ALL his students to become better. People like you hate on things you don't understand and CAN'T comprehend. Go try it for yourself, and see if you're not a better person and fighter/protector afterward and if, like MANY master martial artists/champion fighters, you decide to practice Systema for life because your first experience will alter everything you thought you knew. Martin Wheeler started Systema because he was an accomplished black belt in Kemp and judo for 22 years and went to a Systema seminar, and Vladimir Vasiliev used him as a tutorial volunteer and completely dismantled him effortlessly while laughing and talking with the other students, making him feel like he was boxing at the air in a dark room for the past 22 years.
Context is necessary here bro. They probably wouldn't be trying to play push in a striking match.
Why? Can’t you see it’s a crock?
one of the genius in this era.
Lol. I've read some comments, but I can say people really don't think by themselves.
After all the testemonies i've read, i believe Martin Wheeler is making this work. I guess it's easy money for con-men to present themselves as teachers, because it seems a fine line between expert and fraud by just looking at it. And it doesn't help that it looks a bit like aikido.
lol
Really?.