SNS 361: Wheel Mods, Mill Head Tramming
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 พ.ค. 2022
- We have a set of wheels that need a modification. We had to drill and counterbore the valve stem hole to accept a larger and different style of valve stem. Once completed we'll get the milling head trimmed and ready to go.
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Standard valve stem sizes are either 0.453" or 0.625". The rubber valve stem will measure a lot thicker for a tight fit when installed.
Adam, these videos, as long as they seem to be, are NOT boring. You are just showing your extreme attention to detail. Keep up your great work.
Nope, not boring-- just counter-boring.
Adam - the segments on set up and tramming are always interesting and reassuring. It helps me realise that it isn't necessarily me doing stuff wrong, that sometimes cracking a bolt or something can cause the machine to go off and that is just what happens - not that I've done something wrong!
Thanks for showing the tramming. Thanks for all you do Adam. The free knowledge you provide is extremely valuable.
I’ve always worked on the principle that if you aren’t going to put something back perfectly square then just leave it so far out it is obvious. Don’t get it close then walk away. I have been burned by that in the past.
I ABSOLUTELY loved the trick of using the small drill bit to find center on the valve hole. I'm going to use that on my block manufacturing.
Adam in past years when tramming my mill table I once used an outer bearing race from a large tapered roller bearing. I picked it up for free from a CAT dealer. When they overhaul the big machines they usually always toss the old bearings. The outer bearing race was 9" in diameter and about 1-1/2" thick, so it worked well to tram the table with, just lay it on the table and you then have a continuous smooth true surface on the edge. A precision ground bearing race is likely as accurate as one will find for purposes like that. No more skipping over the table grooves......
I love your home shop best! Thanks for the vid.
When I ran a metal shop for an OEM, I would have prospective machinist do 3 things: clock a 4-jaw, free-hand grind a drill bit, and tram a spindle. You'd be amazed at how guys would crumble/fall-apart after "talking the talk". You just can't effectively fake years of turning handles, around guys who have. Keep up the good work Adam👍
You don't really want the hole to be the same size as the seat of the valve body.
It needs to substantially undersized to be reliable.
The owner should have fitted the correct valves
I was going to say exactly this
Older US passenger cars used a 0.625 valve hole. Newer cars all use the 0.453 hole size. Metric size hole is 10 mm for alloy wheels. Some truck wheels used a 9.7 mm hole. On this job 15 mm is almost 5/8 so it's a little small but should work.
Thanks for that. Excellent info.
These segments maybe a little long but they are never boring. Your attention to details are what make you a great teacher. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Your missing drill bit is with all the missing 10mm sockets somewhere in the world. Another great video Adam.
Too true. Ha
They're probably with the missing socks from the laundry.
Man are they where all my socks go? I did a test one year bought about 100 pairs of socks, they just disappear I swear. Sock gnomes man they live in our dryers lol
🤣👍
That was amazing when you used the precision stones to setup for tramming the head. You said I can see a spot here and you hit it with the stones and I could easily hear the spot come and go. Those are the details I really appreciate from your channel.
Adam's work ethic is admirable and worth emulating. Applies to a lot more than just machining.
long & boring? hardly. informative, educational and a perfect perspective of what real precision is. Thanks Adam!
Thanks Adam. I really appreciate the little extras you put into these videos.
Great to watch Adam, super informative and crystal clear. Thank you.
I appreciate witnessing the procedures to achieve and maintain accuracy. Revealing the background steps that have to take place before the more interesting operational procedures makes a good outcome even more impressive. Thanks for sharing, Adam.
Love all manner of alignment, calibration, indicating, wonderful!
Great tips on trimming in the mill. Very interesting and learned a lot! Thanks!
Always enjoy the setup details, even though I’ve never touched a mill. Thanks!
Thank you Adam for sharing Awesome footage as always
Hi Adam, I'm always looking to learn at least 1 thing per video. A good refresher is always good to help mend my sloppy habits! Thank You Sir!!
Great job Adam, puckered up a couple times but I knew you'd get it done right. Thanks for sharing with us. Fred.
Tramming segment was very help full, thanks
Every Abom79 video teaches me something new. Love it.
I'm a newbie and only have a little mill but I love watching your videos very educational thanks for the tips
I love everything you do its very inspiring. I learnt a lot from this channel. Thanks again Abom79.
one of the best tramming videos I've seen. Thanks Adam
Love Saturday Nights in the Shop with Adam. I always learn a lot.
God bless you Adam. Always find you a pleasure to watch.
Super good advice on tagging the machine as not-trammed. More information is always better.
Tramming is wonderful. Show it all. This is the best part of your channel. The comment about making a note is critical. You will forget and forget and forget. MARK IT.
The correct diameter for 15mm schrader valve stems are 8,5mm. Not sure what will happen with these oversized holes. But i imagine there is a reason for such a heavy interferece fit.
More than likely the stem will push into the wheel and possibly break the sensor when he tries to put a chunk on it.
@@csorrows i dont like to speculate. But given an impact to the tire, during normal driving conditions, the pressure can momentarily increase quite dramatically. I would worry about the stem ejecting and the wheel venting. But then again, I have no references. But it still remains that if you operate your equipment outside their normal working conditions, “anything” can happen.
Always enjoy your videos Adam thanks.
Thanks Adam. Looking forward to the next few projects.
I have to do all sorts alignment on my 3D printer, hadn't realized that duh machines like these need it to an even greater degree! Very good segment, thank you!!
Thanks. Good learning session on traming mill.
NO ADAM!
A rubber valve stem is supposed to be a compressed fit brother, to withstand the air pressure when the tire is inflated!
Oh boy.
Subjects like tramming might seem boring to some people, but the great majority of this channel's viewers will be glued to the screen. Absolutely great content, as always! :)
Most excellent episode. Always a treat to watch this channel.
When I was a machinest I always tramed the Bridgeport . Keep up the good work .
Adam machines the part to the size the customer specifies. As a machinist, he does _not_ know the mechanical engineering that the part was designed to. These wheels are now trash. They will never hold air. The valve stems are designed to fit snug and tight, which makes them _hard_ to insert. The groove in the rubber stem is designed to be stretched lengthwise, made wider by the metal of the wheel, to insure an air tight fit.
The hole should be 11.5mm for a standard snap in valve stem. It would have been a lot easier to use a European spec TPMS sensor for the original 8.3mm hole. Maybe they are all the wrong frequency for a Lexus, I don't know. Maybe you can ream them out to 5/8 for a truck style valve stem.
If he's using something a hair over 15mm (he said he lost that and is a few thou over) I imagine it's already a truck valve stem that he's using rather than an 11.5mm valve stem.
Man, I would have just given it a hot supper with a step drill In the DeWalt till the stem fitted.
This is a much more precise way to fuck a rim.
If he is going to blacken the inner holes again, a good quality nail polish can't be beat. A lot of old school mechanics keep a variety of nail polish in their boxes because of its toughness.
I use a good quality nail polish for paint touch up too. Just remember to go over it with a UV blocking clear as most of them won't hold their color too well under constant sun exposure
@@forrestcarroll9350 Good point. I learned this from my dad when he had his shop growing up. We used it for marking things under the hood so never needed to worry about fading. Back then some cars had a myriad of vacuum hoses so it worked well in the messy environment and was durable. He also specialized in auto electrical and he would mark certain wires from time to time. I ended up using nail polish on my guitars. Worked great. The tear drop plastic switch thingy Id paint with some fancy color and then gloss it over and it really looked good.
That's the " Excuse " they use when caught having Nail Polish in their Toolbox !! I would DEMAND to see his TOES!! 🤔 Probably painted nails ?? 🤣
@@garymallard4699 Aw gee.. Im busted!!!! LOL!!!
@@opieshomeshop 👍
a Big THANK YOU for the tramming lecture. i have bean doing all wrong just using a bubble level
Nice to see people getting professional to do the job properly. Alot of people would have just hand drilled out the value stem holes. I think that is a tyre pressure sensor type value stem.
Good video for tramming!! I just picked up a knee mill that I have to tram!!!
I think next weeks video will be sleeving the holes back to 10mm.
Kinda what I'm thinking as well..
🤣
11.5
I enjoy your sessions of making adjustment like tramming it in , FWIW.
Thanks sir ...very educational and informative
Thank heavens you posted something. All I had to watch was some of mine and they are boring. Thanks, Adam
"why is one-off, custom machining 'so expensive'?" ...this is why. good stuff!
I'm sure the owner of the wheels had no idea what was involved in this simple request.
Thank you. I find the detail adjusting the machine.
Great tips! Thanks, Adam!
All the sizes of valve stems that i have seen in my 20 years of rim repair/ tire work are, 6- 8- 9,7- 11,5- 16- 20- and 22mm, it is some silly aftermarket thing using 8mm valve stems on regular wheels, TPMS sensors are allmost impossible to find for that size. You have there most definitely TR413 style valve stem that requires 11,5- 11,7mm hole.
This comment is what I was waiting for.....oddities in "aftermarket" products.
Very good advice about leaving a note indicating that a machine is out of tram. I am a victim of my own failure to do that.
Your right! I laughed out loud. That is a great idea. Keep up the good work
The comments rarely disappoint. lol
True Brian, but would you bore out something that has such an obvious industry standard size without so much as a Google search first? Lol
Yeah.... still a bit too much undersized for the industry standard "big bore " valve stem! Gotta remember that this is abom size! It's Gotta be big
The couch operators are out in force on this one
fun video. i really enjoy your channel, thanks for sharing.
Excellent tutorial.
Your 15mm drill bit is most likely hanging out with the 10mm sockets… Over near the pile of single socks lost in the laundry
Over here in Europe, we actually have a massive feral 10 mm socket problem. They go missing, and people think no more of it. All the while the 10 mm sockets are out digging through trash cans in the middle of the night . People, keep track of where your sockets are!
@Francis Schweitzer LMAO! Excellent reply!
@@Gameboygenius another most excellent reply! LMAO!
@@Gameboygenius True story: I was out with my friend looking at a potential property I was going to buy. It was formerly a "craftsman's" home. There were unfinished projects and rusted debris all over the place. I looked down and saw a socket on the ground and said to my friend "bet that's a 10mm socket". Picked it up and sure enough, it was! My friend was like "what the heck!!??"
loved the trammin' classic Abom stuff right there.
Just to check info I went to look for specs. It's amazing the variety of valves out there.
The tiresome comments (that for whatever reason seem to be brought about by car parts...) are really getting in the way of learning and productive discussion.
For example, from another poster:
> Spend the time of setting everything up CORRECTLY. Your finished project will be that much more precise.
I apologize to the poster for singling them out as an example, yet that comment is hard to read as anything but a personal attack: it does not explain what was wrong, all it says is "do better to do better". It's a put down. Plenty of similar comments with similar insinuations, which I'll avoid repeating.
I don't know what the original commenter meant, but rephrasing would actually benefit the community. Maybe:
> For anyone repeating this, there is a potential for an oval hole leading to leaks due to the clamping method used. Consider using XYZ to stabilize the workpiece.
The tiresome comments only continue because we tolerate them as a community. My request isn't for the noisemakers, they follow the current. Instead, I invite the remainder of the community to remind folks to keep discussions productive. That's why we're here, right? Where else could we get information from tire techs, mechanics, classic car enthusiasts, metrologists, machining experts, fabricators, hydraulic experts, etc all in one place?
Congrats on the shop, Adam. Thanks for passing along your knowledge, along with your dad's and grandpa's. It's made a difference in a lot of folk's lives. Greetings from the west coast.
I apologize once again to the poster I singled out - for all I know, they could be having a bad day or just didn't phrase things correctly. That's fine. I've done it. I just feel strongly that this issue is starting to damage this amazing community due to its frequency, and I needed an example to make my point.
I agree, a lot of people lose sight of what he is actually trying to accomplish, which is really just showcase the machines and some techniques. As for this specific job, the angle/location of that valve stem does not matter, it is just there for ease of filling the tire with air.
Very, very well said Sir!! Spot-on!
Patrick de Dunkerque Nord de France Comme toujours de très bonne vidéo avec de très bonne explications du super travail félicitation pour tes vidéo Adam
That great smile at the end of the video terlls the story...you are darn good at what you do and you love it! It really comes across and I think it's great Adam! And yes, tramming is basic after you've done it for a while but good quality review never hurts. Thanks for all that you do for the community - it is truly appreciated.
Ah, screw it, just drill clear through and put a tube in it. lol
Great idea, that way they will always be inflated to at least 14.7 psi haha
Channel is jumping! Thanks for sharing.
Cool video, great info!
Unless there's something special about those valve stems, I'd say you drilled the hole too big. And cutting with that end mill was hard to watch. Sure hope the customer was planning on having the wheels coated
Tramming the mill. Basic machine shop skill. Well presented and well executed. Also stating that it can be a pain in the ass the closer you get to zero. Ain't that the truth? Nice job Adam. Don't be a peckerwood ! Return the machine back to tram. Good skill to get proficient at. Good shop practice too. Never assume a machine is in tram unless you did it , or it's in your own shop and you are the only one using it. Assume nothing!
Very nice video thanks for the heads up. :o)
I've enjoyed every one of Adam's videos and always admired his work. This vid was hard to watch. What did his friend do, find four rims he liked for his car and NOT call a tire shop to see what size stems he needed? Is this guy going to mount his own tires? My first question for the rim owner would have been, "Are you SURE these are the correct stems? "
"These hold air pressure and will carry human lives, right?..... okay let's make 'em a slip fit."
FWIW on Tramming the Mill, When doing the X axis 9 o'clock 3 o'clock once you get close to 0 degrees set the adjustment screw in the middle of the play, use a dead blow hammer with light taps on the head for the final adjustment.
Great Adam really enjoyed thanks
So great that when you modify mass manufactured parts you leave them more precise than they came from the factory.
You forgot about the part where he made them useless as well.
@@csorrows maybe the person likes getting air at the gas station everyday lol
@@dazedreamer4206or maybe they like to push the stem into the wheel when they try to fill it.
alrighty!! always heard about tramming and some crazy ways to do it (yup, grinding the surface was one horrible suggestion!); nice vid
For those that have a mill, it's not boring Nice job
Todd, I genuinely laughed at your comment.
Thanks.
I don't have a mill. I didn't get bored. LMAO 😊 Although I wish I had a mill.
So I'm at work surrounded by wheels not working "watching TH-cam" and I started meshering things . All are rubber stems are 15mm at the same spot and the holes in all the rims holes are around 10mm and the stims fit just fine because thay compress .... im just worried dilling out to close to 15mm will make them to leak or pop out under pressure.
I was thinkin that..surely the rubber needs to be squashed?
If the paint made it 8mm I could see how that would make it harder. But as far as I can tell the holes are standardized to 10mm and the only time I've seen them bigger was on 80'ish trailer tiers
Yeah, I think the diameter and groove of the valve should have at least .010 interference fit. The valves fit very tight in the rims, it's hard to turn them by hand.
I've been working on cars for 20 years and never worked on a vehicle that had a different valve stem diameter. They are pretty much standard for automobiles. I have seen the larger diameter stems but never knew they were for older trailers until mentioned in the comments.
@@dm-zx7xb "I've been working on cars for 20 years and never worked on a vehicle that had a different valve stem diameter." You measured the valve stem holes on every car you worked on? Is that standard practice? Master cylinder needs replacement, wait, gotta measure those valve stems before it leaves.
The part of the video on tramming was excellent.
Wow, I hope you got those Schrader valve ports right. No pressure, though
i see what you did there
Cha cha cha china! Love your work abom
Thanks for sharing!
I’ve always thought that tilting the head was easier than nodding it, because the tilt axis is on the same plane as the spindle axis, so it’s easier to tram back in!
Very informative!!
Hey, that looks like the same OtterBox case I have on my iPhone! 😌
Enjoyed thanks for sharing
Great episode.
very good video , good information
When traming a mill head since the pivot pin for head nod is offset a quick trick is to first check head angle in (X) adjust if needed since the pivot point is on center this is a one to one adjustment when this is good set indicator to (0) then rotate 90 degree to (Y) and adjust nod to same (0) on indicator and that should put you real close then make your fine adjustments in (Y) then go back and check head angle in (X) and make any fine adjustments moving the nod adjustment will some times make head angle (0) off a small amount since head pivot rides on knuckle pivot. When finished you should read (0) on indicator 360 degree around when sweeping table.
I tramed in my bench mill by making 4 washers about 1 1/2" in diameter and .250" thick with a hole in the middle big enough for the bolts in the column to go. I checked the same way you did with an indicator.
With the washers in place I checked left and right first. I gound the thickness down on the high side by half the total
reading on the indicator .
Front to back I did the same but this gets a little tricky. The two washers on the high side you have to grind off half the difference of the indicator as before but you need to grind an equal amount off but because one you ground
off for left and right. So you have to grind them separately and take the same amount off each.
It worked perfectly but heaven help the next owner after me if he gets them mixed up. The washer have to go back in exactly the same position for the head to be tramed properly.
Men, what a nice video. However, I wanna give you a tip.
The formula of the Torque is: (T = F * r * sin ø ).
T = Torque
F = Force
r = radius
So, If you want to applied less Torque to rotate less the Head, you can grab the wrench a little near the pivot point. That way you should apply the Torque in a different way. Also, you maximize the Torque If you use a 90° angle from the wrench ( sin 90° = 1 ).
I hope I can be useful at least to someone.
Thanks for sharing 👍
I think those rims are trashed. Valve cores are a super tight fit, the groove in the rim is much smaller diameter than the diameter of the groove on the valve and valve core must be pulled into place using tire lube and a puller tool. They'll leak like heck now and not be secure.
Yep.
Yep, Adam trying to employ the theoreticals of dimensions and fits or a solid material like steel to rubber.
Shop etiquette - absolutely!
Thanks for the video, Adam. I can't comment on previous posters re the bore size, I sure hope they're wrong. ( I "think" you'll be ok,) otherwise we get to see the "how to fix the oversized hole video"
Good work
Great job on the wheels and tramming. Adam, you need an apprentice!