One big thing I'd like to clarify that I see keep popping up in the comments: saying that Kris is an elementary student late into the video was a mistake LOL. I noticed it about 3 days into editing, but I simply thought "eh nobody will watch to the end so it'll be fine". Thank you to all of you guys who actually DID though, and you're completely right; Kris is most likely a middle-high school student, not elementary.
I want to point out that if Undyne saw the dark world first hand ,that would mean she would likely have to make arrests based on that knowledge. would could lead to every possible crime you commit in both peaceful recruit everyone and beat up every in chapter 1 than snowgrave chapter 2 being prosicuted. And honestly this insane scenerio is one worth of it's own video, even if it would be fanfic. The worst part is despite everything the player does in snowgrave, Noelle i still the one who killed Birdly, meaning if it's found out there is no way she's getting out a murder charge. Cause she did murder Birdly as far as we can tell from the post dark worlds of snowgrave.
You still control kris in the light world. The sans line about meeting him before and the heart going to the dialogue. So the player told undyne about the dark world.
I'd argue that Kris is actually in grade 11 or 12, judging from how Berdly shares a class with them and how concerned he is over getting on in his life once him and Noelle no longer share a class
I wonder if the reason Kris decided to turn on the TV is that a TV-themed Dark World is much less intrusive than a Dark World centered around their home life. Kris has a history of withholding highly personal information from the Player. Whether it's their brother's internet search history or details about the state of humankind, Kris goes out of their way to make sure that the Player doesn't know their history and their relationships. I can only imagine the type of world that would manifest with everything that the Dreemurr family has been through (Asgore and Toriel's separation, Asriel going to college, Kris's insecurities about not being a monster, etc.). With this in mind, a TV Dark World seems a lot more standard than a Dark World ruled by, say, the Bouquet of Flowers that Toriel threw in the bin symbolizing her animosity towards Asgore.
Actually, the bouquet might STILL become a part of the Dark World, seeing as how the trashcan with the pink and yellow papers resembled Spamton But we never know, tbh
Well, TV dark world is not gonna happen, it will be home themed dark world. With a TV as Main antagonist. Bouquet of flowers is likely gonna be next secret boss
Here's an idea: If Kris didn't turn on the TV, the Darkners generated by the Dark Fountain will most certainly be made from the objects in their house. Sooo, after the fountain is sealed and they are encouraged to bring the Darkners to Castle Town, they would basically be throwing away their entire kitchen, living room, and maybe more. BUT, with the TV on, the new Dark World can possibly be generated based on TV channels instead. So, all they would be getting rid of in the end is an old TV that they barely use. A much more reasonable sacrifice.
If I remember correctly, all the darkners in chapter 2 were immediately sent into Castle Town, without bringing anything from the Computer Lab. It's because we recruited them.
@@thehomeredone That might have been done virtually, What if the closet had a computer there? We still dont know how it looks like, Only Spade kingdom room we know, But ralsei's domain nothing about, Possibly why Ralsei is able to travel to the cyber world
@@jackoxy9860 That's still a rough way to put it, but you may be right. A computer being there is plausible, but remember that the internet was not working at the city that day, meaning that they did not have a way to connect. Maybe in some other way that has not explained? Though it's Toby here, he's gonna surprise us.
Personally, I don’t think that Kris opened the front door in order to let the police in. After all, Kris and Susie’s entrance into the supply closet and computer lab Dark Worlds have shown that the door to a room containing a Dark Fountain need not be left open in order for Lightners to walk inside. Rather, I think that Kris decided to open the door in order to make it seem like the Knight had snuck in while everyone was asleep, created the Dark Fountain, and quickly fled the scene. This will help to draw unwanted suspicion away from them. As for why they turned on the TV, I think you’re pretty spot on. If they’re going to secretly and impulsively create their own Dark World, why not spice up their adventure by bringing in a cast of quirky characters characters from TV?
The main thing about the door is that I presume Toriel probably locked it. Not only is it a good thing to lock the door late at night, but ESPECIALLY if someone mysteriously slashed your car tires. The door to the library presumably wasn't locked, so I assume the main reason is that the police would have to bust down the door to get inside if Kris didn't either unlock it or just open it. It might also encourage the police to go inside the house if they see a house with the door left open.
@@MysticSlime I believe in some places it's also illegal for police officers to enter a home without a special warrant or invitation, unless the door is unlocked.
@@MeloniestNeon yeah, but Toriel did call and ask them to come over, I feel like getting a call about someone moving around in the dark and slashing tires is probable cause to enter the house ESPECIALLY if the door is open, someone might be hurt
@@MysticSlime not sure if someone mentioned it, but what about mettaton? What if mettaton became of the popular characters on tv, and we probably meet him in chapter 3? Just thoughts, any way all we have to do in our situation is to wait for the next chapter :ь Btw, thank you for your videos, it's interesting to watch them!
One thing we can say about Snowgrave is that it’s hard to see what Kris thinks about that route, or how it affects Kris Also, Kris does know about the light world changing the dark world, since if you interact with the Ferris wheel poster in the library after closing the fountain, Kris thinks about how their day would’ve been different if a different poster was there
Yeah, all we got is that Susie seems a little worried about them, when she asks if they're okay, not finishing the sentence, but saying something about their look, where Ralsei enters into the conversation asking if Kris is hurt, implying that Kris isn't looking too well, but even that doesn't seem enough to reach a conclusion on Kris's thoughts.
Kris doesnt appear to be super pleased with the snowgrave route, considering that Kris shows obvious signs of not wanting to go through with a lot of the choices that lead to the route being completed
Is hard but I have seen pretty good interpretations. They seem betrayed, because I think that even when they didn’t trust entirely in “the player” we actually have been good with them in the past. We help them make friends and survive in the darkworld, so I think that he let us intervene and see things because he genuinely think that maybe we can help. Even though, for them it sucks to be controlled and to be forced to do things they don’t like. In snowgrave always the alternative option to “Proceed” is very different than normal options. Are things like: I am sorry, let’s solve it toguether. Using a lot the word I or kind of apologizing. Also, Kris denying us to see Susie and Noelle has being interpreted as Kris blocking us for protect Noelle of more harm. In general I think that they are very traumatized and displeased.
Kris probably understood dark worlds by chapter 1 considering chapter 1's dark world is pretty much designed around his whole predicament. (Nobody cares about you or your choices, you can get slight variations on what you pick but it all leads to the same outcome) That and it contains the first unskippable Ralsei talks to Kris in secret scene where Ralsei ignores your answer to redirect the view of the Player by sending it to Susie's perspective. Meaning Ralsei definitely could have explained to Kris how dark worlds spawn when first created which would explain his irrational behavior at the end of CH2.
During the entire course of Chapters 1 and 2, Susie is shown to be the more independent of the gang...she doesn't listen to our orders initially and only comes around when things get serious with Lancer. None of our actions solidify Kris' friendship with Susie...it was Kris' attempt to defend Susie from King that caused her to call Kris her friend. In turn, Susie starts listening to Kris and treating them like their best friend the very next day. Susie in turns enables the use of the "ACT" command for party members, confusing Ralsei but enabling us to "defeat" the boom box crew via dancing. Of all their friends, Kris clearly trusts Susie the most and despises our control, so much to the point that they're willing to rip us our of their body to their potential harm and risk death in order to gain freedom somehow(Spamton notes their desperation at one point in Chapter 2). It's evident that Kris planned this as early as the end of Chapter 1 as early Chapter 2 if you go into the bathroom, it says "it's not time to wash your hands yet" hinting towards the ending of Chapter 2, creepily mind you now I think about it. Kris played along and let things play out as they would for this chapter and then made their move at the end, trapping their Mom and Susie along with them. Tori and Susie are not individuals that can be so easily manipulated like poor Noelle. This, in my mind, is a call for help. Even if you take the initiative and try to tell Office Undyne, they don't believe Kris for a second. Kris wants their life back...so if they have to create a Dark World in their living room to do it, so be it. So, at the end of Chapter 2, Kris slashes their Mom's tires to keep Susie around...which causes Tori to think there's a prowler about and calls the police later on. Kris, Susie and Tori go to sleep later on. Kris wakes up, opens the door, turns the TV on, looks at Susie for a sec and opens the fountain. This is not a third party controlling Kris. This Kris in desperation mode trying to get us to give up control and expose the threat of the Dark Worlds.
I mean, even if we're recruiting every single Darkner and doing everything as peacefully as possible; A benign tumor is still a tumor. Even if you're being manipulated into doing things that your conscience can live with, you're still being manipulated. Kris is seeking outside help from the only 3 people Kris knows will keep us in check; The Mom that'll know when something's amiss, The Cop who can benchpress Cars, and the friend with enough will to tell us no.
I think the reason why Kris slashed the tires is to give a reason for Tori to call the police, which then leads them to Kris' dark world. This would solidify Kris' point to Undyne about Dark Worlds existing.
@@thegreendragon5390 without the soul though, the world falls into darkness If we stop playing, there is no hope for them Not to mention how in the pacifist route we only give Kris more friends I can't wait until we finally get our vessel back
@@hisprincessprincess4916Kris doesn't necessarily know that, though, since we're only told that in the game over screen. Also, they're a teen, so they may not be thinking things through much beyond "I am being possessed, I do not want that. Agree about the vessel tho.
9:55 small nitpick/"correction" : When first meeting Queen Susie outright says that they're not children and Queen replies with "teeneger are merely bigger children" so depending on your point of view this either heavily implies or outright confirms that Susie and Kris are teenegers. The elementary class in the school could possibly be explained with the town possibly being small enough to justify a mixed grades school
Toriel does actually notice Kris acting weird, once you get the ball of junk to bring back to hometown you can go down and hear a conversation between toriel and alphys where toriel is asking if alphys notices anything different about Kris
Worth mentioning, Dialogue on the TV shows it was only plugged in during the ending of chapter 1, so the second theory is questionable if Kris doesn't know how to even make a dark fountain yet. Something far stranger is going on here.
I think that Toriel is the one who plugged in the TV after Kris had fallen asleep, in anticipation of having their new friend over to visit sometime soon and/or Asriel’s return from college sometime next week.
@@philltheotherguy1868 Does make sense when you realize she was excited about Kris having a new friend. They haven't had friends since Asriel left for college.
Kris plugged the TV because they probably wanted to invite Susie over. Why on earth would they need to know how to create a fountain to want to watch TV?
my first guess for kris turning on the TV was to give the player a challenge; if we dont have a boss to fight or to lead and organize the enemies we fight, we might just be able to quickly cruise on through to the fountain and close it without any resistance, giving toriel and susie less time to find out something is wrong with kris, and decreasing the chance that toriel realizes it isn't a dream ...given how chapter 1's cliffhanger was resolved though, maybe it is just to bring susiezilla to life
In Chapter 3, I wonder if you start from someone else’s POV, as they discover the fountain, or if you will start in the Dark World already, and maybe after some events Undyne enters it, maybe Napstablook as well.
There's one theory floating around that says the point of the weird route is to make Noelle as strong as possible by getting rid of various hometown residents so that Noelle has nobody to lean on, like Undyne.
That's a scary thought considering the last thing you make Noelle do to complete the Chapter 2 portion of that route lines up with that theory & considering she's been known to lean on Asriel, who's supposed to be coming home soon.
8:00 I actually am inclined to believe Ralsey is much more involved in talking Kris into creating the Dark Fountains than it appears. Yes, Ralsey is scared about unleashing too much darkness and the ,, Roaring" presumably but he is VEEERY upfront about wanting you to befriend everyone and bring them to his own Fountain to rule over(not in a malicious way probably). It's possible that during the cutscenes between Ral and Kris we don't see Sey explains about the importance of making more fountains and bringing Darkners together in his world. If that is the case it makes much more sense why Kris would make the 2 fountains we know were made using Determination and the Knife (the Librarby and TV worlds). Also don't forget Ralsey was alone for the duration between Chapter 1 and 2 before he specifically asks YOU to bring the toys from the Light World classroom to his World - yes in-game time it may have been only a day but for him it may have seemed more(it is used as a joke about game development but I won't be surprised if time passes differently in the Dark and Light World) .
ok a couple snip bits to their theory its been kinda proven time and time again amongst the fandom that kris didn't make the fountain in the library due to evidence on how Noelle and Birdley is positioned in the room that being the books being open and both sitting down at the desk along with the piece of dialog said when you interact with the closet saying that it could fit a whole person possibly meaning that A. the knight is a lightner and B. kris cannot be the knight as of course this is Toby Fox we are talking about he wouldn't give us another dark world making the knight seem more of a threat that they are making more dark fountains and immediately show that its kris at the end of chapter 2 out of possibly 6
@@ChronoMoth Did you forget how we and Susie entered the room or are you just Spitbolling here? We JUMPED into the Dark World yet we ended up on the chairs when we came back. I doubt i have to explain to you that Toby isn't a god and hasn't thought of everything ever when making his game. A. The pie cutting at night is a misdirect B. Kris is at least IMPLIED to have created that fountain by queen Reminder (plunged their KNIFE into the earth) idk why people are so into going against literally everything Toby has said or implied. Edit : not to mention we literally see them creating a fountain at the end of chapter 2 , again being contrarian for no reason
@@zeo4481 im not spit balling there are many theories against kris being the knight it wouldn't make sense to make a villain such a big deal to then reveal them in the 2nd chapter its not spit balling if im following the theorize of the majority
Actually, what Ralsei was opposed in that moment specifically was on making a Neo dark fountain (like what Queen wanted to do, punch the ground inside the darkworld to make that Fountain huge and allow it to cover a lot more area than the computer lab. Also, I suppose that make a lot of normal dark fountains could be wrong, but if they do it cautiously it could make the Castle Town populated and strong and maybe that will be important in the end? Who knows? Is just a game theory jajaja
@@zeo4481 It is because this game will have episodic releases. It is logical to asume that some things that seem to be implied are misdirections. What people don’t agree about is which ones are misdirections and which ones are canon. Maybe Kris spent the entire night watching tv and eating pie? Who knows haha. Toby is also a kind of prankster at making games. With respecto to the fountain at the librarby, it doesn’t make sense that Berdly and Noelle were in the middle of a study session and Kris opened the fountain there, because Kris was in castle town after Noelle went to study to the librarby. If Kris opened the fountain in the night, they would have entered voluntarily to the black room and I think that they would remember that. So this is weird and is contradictory. Also, the narrator saying that a big body could fit in the closet is so weird... seems to imply that Kris suspects that somebody hid in there to make the fountain. Also, there was a text that Toby posted a while ago when he described a new intro that he wanted to make for the full game, and in that intro the Knight is a different character than Kris. And also, another detail. The King of Spades talked to the Knight and knew personally the Knight. How in the world The King wouldn’t recognize the Knight if Kris were the Knight? That are the main reasons why people opposed into believing that Kris is the Knight and that he opened the fountain in the computer lab, respectively and I think that are valid reasons and not so far fetched. And also, all of them appearing in the table is not a plot hole. In chapter 1 Kris and Susie entered the darkworld using the closet, and when Kris closed the fountain they appeared in the unused classroom, near the shelf that was supposed to represent the card castle near the “equivalent” of the dark world place where they were at the end. So how they entered is not related to where they appear after. Queen could have being tricked into thinking that Kris was the Knight because when the fountain opened in the computer lab the face of the person was impossible to see. So the fountain of the computer lab could have been opened but Kris or the Knight, we don’t know, and the evidence is being contradictory on purpose. All of that is built in order to have ambiguity and for us not being able to discern which one is true with evidence. This is clear for me.
While possible and interesting, given Toby’s methods of writing, it wouldn’t make much sense for kris to do it just for that purpose, especially after ralsei tells them that it could bring the roaring
So, I agree totally with all of this. Kris is NOT a bad kid, and they want strong people like Susie, Toriel and the police around to help. (They also even try and talk to the Mayor about it). And I don’t think their actions are being “controlled” by anyone without their soul (and, in fact, I do believe the red soul IS theirs; but because we are possessing it, the only way for them to be free is to rip it out, (which takes a shit tonne of determination if you think about it), but that makes them weak and zombie like. Which, obviously tearing out your soul would do that). However, while I don’t think there is a third entity INSIDE of Kris, there is definitely at least a third entity “pulling the strings” of this story. If evidence is to be believed, Gaster seems to be the one who actually linked us, the player, to Kris’ soul (unless the person who discarded our creation was another _different_ entity, then THAT character was the one who linked us). There is also Ralsei, or as I like to think of them, the Dungeon Master of this story. There’s how they keep trying to keep things “on schedule,” (their own schedule? Someone else’s schedule?) And how they try to talk to Kris alone at least once a chapter, and get distressed when they can’t do so during Snowgrave. So I think there is definitely more going on here than meets the eye. Also, I just find it so fascinating (and heartbreaking) how Susie is the one character with basically no idea of the sinister undertones of this story. And how she and other lighteners can’t remind you or tell you what buttons to press, unlike other Darkners such as Ralsei and Lancer. Also! Regarding the fact that “Kris hasn’t met Spamton in the Snowgrave Route,” and hence “can’t want to find out more about Mike in all timelines.” . . I think that is false. Because we are forgetting one thing: time travel and the nature of saves. This aspect may not be the focus of the games thus far, like they were in Undertale, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t an _aspect._ Also, a lot of the “Deja Vu” Undertale characters exhibit is from the fact that you are a “new character” to them and also may have killed them, which are both aspects not present here. What’s to say that Kris _doesn’t_ remember all the versions you did? So will always want to know more about Mike? I will say this IS just a theory tho. :P And one more, slightly off topic, thing but: I’ve been really curious about what happens if you have both an active “Pacifist” AND “Genocide” run present? Via your three save files? Does this affect anything? Like how the Genocide run “ruins” any pacifist runs you may try to complete thereafter? Food for thought.
"And how they try to talk to Kris alone at least once a chapter, and get distressed when they can’t do so during Snowgrave." Ralsei has a crush on Kris. He gets distressed because he was able to have alone time with them like in chapter one. idk if this is ENTIRELY true, but its just something to chew on.
What really interests me about Kris’s plan is that it seems to have been planned before we even enter the Cyber World. That morning, checking the sink yields the text “It is not yet time to wash your hands,” and the TV is plugged in, despite not being plugged in for a long time. This leads me to hypothesize that Kris had this idea during the night between Chapters 1 and 2, as that’s when the flavor text changes, possibly when doing whatever they were doing in addition to eating pie. This yet raises more questions, such as whether Kris learned this from an outside source, or perhaps even by Ralsei in the offscreen segments. Furthermore, someone a while back discovered that the TV static noise is actually a distorted and slowed track of Entry 17’s mus_smile, raising concerns about Gaster and his potential, if at all existent, relationship with Kris. [Edit: this is merely apparent; I have no personal verification, but a source does exist in the comments.] I’m just kinda just throwing out ideas here; your explanation about Snowgrave seems to make sense. Good work; looking forward to more!
I think that Toriel is the one who plugged in the TV, in anticipation of having Kris’ new friend over to visit and/or Asriel’s soon return from college.
"Furthermore, someone a while back discovered that the TV static noise is actually a distorted and slowed track of Entry 17’s mus_smile, raising concerns about Gaster and his potential, if at all existent, relationship with Kris." Source?
@@sheogorath6834 I just played around with the sound files myself, out of curiousity... I personally can't find a connection at all. There's just nothing interesting at all in the TV static noise, at least to my untrained eyes... Although I did find out that mus_smile is actually made up from Muffet's laugh, just extremely slowed down, then reversed, and that two times, with a weird moaning noise in between... That's probably already known, but it's news to me. (And creepy as heck when I first heard it, whilst messing with the file. Just knowing that that already creepy sound file is actually a laugh... ugh.) Eitherway, I would be interested in seeing a source on that as well, since I couldn't find anything.
@@g4_61 Oh damn, that's amazing stuff! I'll definitely give that a try myself. This certainly brings up some interesting ideas and questions, although it could also just be yet another, seemingly random way that Tobi added mus_smile into the game... There's also the bunker and phone calls in dark worlds, that are connected to that audio... As the author of that post already said - Gaster is all over this damn game.
Here's the thing: remember that the Dark World is also considered a place of fantasy and the imagination. To create what Kris is making, it would take incredible levels of imagination and will to turn the fantasy into reality. It also gives a smidge of credence to how Lancer remembers things as a card, given he travels in Kris' pocket.
I've seen a lot of people say that Kris never puts their soul back so that they be free from it for at least a little bit, but if you remove the layer of smoke by modding, it shows that Kris DOES put their soul back.
i actually think that the mike and spamton theroy holds up due to the fact that it would be kinda hard to fit any mike references into the snowgrave route fight and also because the snowgrave route is supposed to be different from the route you normaly take, so not having any mike references would just be fitting to the situation that spamton is in during the snowgrave route
Something I dont think is pointed out often is the idea that the relationship between Kris and the Knight might be similar to Asriel and Flowey. The same being but distinctly different given the lack of a soul.
Yeah the theory is a bit weird because Kris did plug in the TV between chapter 1 and 2 which makes sense if he wanted to create a TV world just because of his fav anime characters being in it or whatever but it does have the issue of us having to assume Kris knew they were capable of making dark fountains before Queen confirmed it in chapter 2. Could be an oversight on Toby's part or could be confirmation that Kris has made one before (which fits the theory they're the knight but also the theory that Ralzei's fountain was created by Kris while the knight is a different person that created the other two fountains).
Interestingly we are never shown Kris putting their soul back, they're actually holding it up almost to introduce it to the fountain separately. I doubt anything will come from this but it's interesting.
Idky I though kris was holding it up like how you hold up a glass of a drink, basically to say ‘here’s to another adventure!’ But the more I think about that the more stupid it seems.
@@chrisgarrett6305 While yes that definitely sounds a bit stupid I do find that idea quite funny. And honestly we know so little about Kris as a person that it's entirely possible their the type to do something like that.
I saw a theory somewhere in the comments of this video, where the soul that Kris pulls out is also THEIR soul and that the player is just possessing Kris' soul.
Assuming that Kris did warn Undyne of the dark world... Perhaps Undyne couldn't capture all 5 of the escaped dog prisoners before she would investigate the fountain in time. Imagine what she has to do to capture them all, who may have scattered everywhere in town. Or maybe she would just forget about the dogs to get to Kris's house immediately when the fountain opens up. I don't think Napstablook, the other policeman, would do much about the situations.
Two certain things strike me when Kris "opened" a dark fountain in their home. It made a very loud noise, yet neither Toriel or Susie woke up from their sleep. Also Kris doesn't immediately place their soul back inside them, and they just hold it up while the dark fountain's smoke fills the house. In chapter 1, a lot of people were making a ton of theories about what Kris planned to do with the knife they were holding, and yet it turns out Kris just used it to get a slice of pie from Toriel's fridge. I wouldn't be all too surprised Kris never actually opened a dark fountain, and this was another benign thing. I saw someone comment a similar thing a while back in another Deltarune theory video, and they gave the very excellent point that Kris may have just used a smoke bomb or something similar to create the dark fountain's apparent mist, and it's meant to be a prank for when Susie and Toriel to wake up to. As for Kris holding up their soul, perhaps in the next chapter they don't actually place it inside them. Perhaps they just hold it out as a little fourth wall break like in chapter 1, when they stared directly at us while holding a knife. In chapter 3 it may be up to us to try and regain control of Kris as they, Susie, and Ralsei go on another Dark World adventure without us. That's just my idea though. This video was very fun to watch, and I can't wait to see more content!!!
well their hair WERE being pushed up and the way they did stop mid-air while those cool symbols appeared behind them seems to me like an ''execution of spell'' (also slashed tires and stuff)
@@thefarlander2050 You know, the game files? Their name is quite clear. "kris_make_foutain" Also "foutain_make" which is the sound of the creation of the foutain. and "foutain_target", whatever that is.
@@sheogorath6834 Yo never knew that, thanks for showing. That quite changes things actually lol. Still it is kind of weird how Toriel and Susie didn't hear the fountain open, but I'll guess we'll see soon
Great video, and a huge thanks for mentioning my channel! There is one thing about your theory though that bothers me. If we (as the player) skipped Chapter 1, it means Kris wasn't under our control during that time. Your statement still works in the current context, since we have to play Chapter 2 for now, but if Toby will allow us to skip it as well, it would mean that we can no longer use the player's influence as a source of motivation. This is why I only talked about it loosely in my own video.
Yeah, the whole skipping Chapter 1 thing is a weird topic for me to be honest. I have to do more research into it, but I essentially don't know if its meant to be "well Kris LITERALLY went through Chapter 1 by themselves" or if its meant to just be a game mechanic. I see this brought up a lot and the more I hear about it the more difficult of a question it is. I know Toby likes to get meta with his games and this mechanic could affect the actual world of Deltarune like saving/loading does, but not every single game mechanic is canon to Deltarune's world either. It's a weird topic and I have to look into it much more; it might even be a topic worth covering on the channel.
The single largest flaw Deltarune has is how hard it blurs the line between diegetic story elements and nondiegetic gameplay mechanics. It's most likely that chapter skipping is solely a mechanic.
yeah i think since Kris still does what they did in chapter 1 (eating pie etc) then its most likely a game mechanic and not a story element. its just there for convenience
3:30 This was my standing theory since CH2 released. Especially if You talk to Undyne and she disbelieves Kris. Could be a play to get themselves out of the situation. It's the only theory I have that doesn't work off "we'll find out later" variables 3:55 Thing is, she _did_ notice. She liked that Kris changed and started making friends besodes Noelle. That must have worried Kris in CH1 6:38 Something that makes me sus of Kris being the Knight is that this got plugged in during CH1 night but that's a red herring due to the intro sequence. This might be a play to hide their own life from Susie, since if my theory of how the DF functions is right, every darkner would be inspired by the interactions with the objects they are made from. Imagine a Shadow Crystal Holder made from the Bouquet... also maybe they are seeking Mike.
This is a good explanation if going with the idea that Kris is creating the TV Dark World for some reason. I do however lean more towards the Third Entity scenario. My biggest argument for it being that if Kris is the one doing these actions at night, this would imply Kris has the capability of taking control back at any moment, meaning they are ultimately the one in control. If this is the case, their fears expressed towards Spamton's situation make no sense, as does their inaction during moments such as Snowgrave. Kris also shows much more agency while we control them then most immediately assume. They speak to Ralsei and Susie even though we don't hear their dialogue, they perform certain actions on their own such as protecting Susie from King, hiding the contents of Asriel's room in Queen's mansion, and they show personal interest in helping Spamton. There is also still that mysterious second voice from the intro that seems to be responsible for placing the player in Kris to begin with.
I get the feeling Kris only has the ability to assume control in very specific situations. Things like the minor control over how they phrase the player's dialog options, such as after the Spamton NEO fight. This also shows up in the form of split second actions mid-cutscene like jumping in front of susie to protect her from the King in Ch.1. In the light world however, i believe they are taking advantage of moments when the player would be very unlikely to assume control. Like, who would want or need to exert control over a sleeping person or someone in the middle of washing their hands, right? Its times when your brain would just sorta enter autopilot or an inactive state, no control needed. It certainly fits with how "set up" the end of Chapter 2 is, Kris making sure they were both alone and performing a very mundane task so they could act without interference. This also leads me to believe that Kris cannot live for very long without their soul (Obvious, i know lol), hence the strange movements and them not being able to do it very often due to the potential strain on their body, which would also explain why Kris doesn't just keep the soul out of their body.
I always assumed Kris can only take full control and move independently during cutscenes or something Like moments where the player is actually unable to do anything because the game is just showing something to them. So Kris can move because there's no inputs being sent so they can take the opportunity to remove the soul and take control. Or in situations where they don't remove the soul they can only really do small actions that can't defy the will of the player. Like they can't stop Noelle during snowgrave because the player obviously wants it to happen. And protecting Susie doesn't defy anything since Susie getting hurt is a non option regardless, Shes a teammate And ignoring all of that they're also obviously really weak after taking out the soul, they basically stumble around, they can't walk properly. So they really can't reassume control because they'd likely die or something
I can't wait for chapter 3 for one REALLY big reason- we get to see other Undertale originating characters as dark world variants. Will Toriel look like she did in Undertale? Will she be more like what she was in one of the fan games, which depicted her as a sort of heroic mage? What about Undyne? I'd love to see her dawn another suit of armour.
i really love your videos dude, its great to see someone actively analyzing the game and putting so much effort into accuracy. youve looked at the game from a lot of angles that i never wouldve thought of myself but totally make sense once i do. keep it up!!
Here’s my theory for why Kris created the dark fountain… In the first chapter, Kris and Susie are told about the Legend, and that the world is destined to be engulfed by darkness only for the hero’s to save the day. Throughout the game there is this reoccurring theme about destiny and how your choices don’t matter. That no matter what, everything will end in the exact same way. So what if Kris, thinking this, realizes that the world facing calamity is an inevitability, as well as the three heroes saving it. So if that’s the case, then perhaps Kris decides that it wouldn’t hurt to “speed things up” a bit. If things really will end as they are foretold, then causing the calamity early will only result in the game ending sooner and things returning to normal. So upon hearing about the roaring, Kris hatches a plan to create a dark world within their house. Kris creating the situation where Toriel calls the police, and subsequently opening the door for them, is to ensure that as many Lightners as possible are lured into the dark world. After all, Berdly and Noelle were just inches away from causing the roaring themselves, so the more Lightners, the better.
I don't particularly believe in the 3rd entity theory, but I had a thought. During Spamton Neo's post battle dialogue, he says "But you three, ... you're strong. With a power like that... Maybe you can break your own strings." So far, Kris is the only character shown to have an idea of any "strings." Susie definitely has no clue what any of that meant, and Ralsei either doesn't know or has no desire to "break their own strings", going by how they glossed over Kris's distress. Maybe Spamton wasn't talking about Susie and Ralsei when he said you three, maybe he was referring to Kris, The Player, and the 3rd entity.
Thanks to the Spamton's Sweepstakes we also got new informations. It seems like Kris doesn't really knows how to play piano, as Noelle described in her blog, their face suddenly got blank, as if they were switching personality, and only then they would go play piano. It seems Kris is a vessel for more entities that we can think, and was already under control of someone/something else before we as the player came in Deltarune's world.
Consider the following: -Burgerpants likes asriel (as a friend or cool dude, kris connection) -Noelle probably has connections to a previous dark world (she is always at least level 2 and her costume is not cyber themed meaning she was in another dark world once) therefore dark worlds have been adventured in before -various evidences (cat theming of mike and spamton, connection to mettaton, cat ads in darkworld, bp getting a portrait and connection to ice es which will probably be a dark world at some time) point to mike being the true name of burgerpants and thus he is mike. Probably being involved with dw shenanigans from asriel and dess’ theoretical adventures (remember: the chess board was said to be once a large dark world like the card kingdom at one point) Therefore kris may believe that he can get additional backup from mike who definitely will have darkworld knowledge under this theory.
This little tidbit of a theory isn't too bad, but I do have one issue - Susie's outfit doesn't match any Dark World we've seen so far. If you're basing the theory of "Dark World look is based on the first Dark World one enters" on Berdly alone, you failed to consider the main cast. Yes, Kris' outfit *sort of* looks knightly, which would kind of match the medieval fantasy theme *supposedly* implicit to Castle Town - the First Dark World Kris was in - But considering all the theoretical connections to Kris that Ralsei has(and the fact that, well, he looks like Kris' brother who they miss dearly); More likely is, that's just a childish "adventurer" thing. Susie's outfit, on the other hand, is something straight out of the nineties - a black leather jacket complete with spiked shoulder pads and braces, purple baggy pants and rubber boots. That does not fit the guesswork theme of Castle Town's Medieval fantasy, or even Card Kingdom's theme of card and tabletop games which she is actually connected to, and it DEFINITELY doesn't fit the very modern internet-themed Cyber World. As for Noelle being level 2 - Considering she levels up to three in the Weird Route IIRC, and the King Fight with Kris' soul "Shining" on the Fun Gang, I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that just being near a powerful human soul can level up a monster. That might be part of why Ralsei was so insistent on Kris taking the leader role, even though Susie seems so against being led even after her redemption. I've heard the theory of Noelle being in a Dark World in the past, but I just can't buy that. We're supposed to believe she was confused and terrified at the beginning even though she'd been in a place like this before and definitely seemed to have put up a fight, trying to navigate the world alone even though she very much could have gone back to find the Fun Gang after being tossed to the side by Berdly, AND humoured and fucked with Susie with those two jokes about killing herself after being told it was a dream? Not to mention, she literally thinks about Dess, so if Dess and Noelle's supposed experience in the Dark World was together...she would likely connect the dots right there and then. If the Holidays DO have any connection to the Dark World then my guess? Dess is acting alone. Perhaps even...she's the Knight. Doubt it, but it's possible.
"-Noelle probably has connections to a previous dark world (she is always at least level 2 and her costume is not cyber themed meaning she was in another dark world once) therefore dark worlds have been adventured in before" Wrong. Noelle is LV1 when she joins the team. She only passes LV2 if she changes "title". For example, by using Iceshock once. "-various evidences (cat theming of mike and spamton, connection to mettaton, cat ads in darkworld, bp getting a portrait and connection to ice es which will probably be a dark world at some time) point to mike being the true name of burgerpants and thus he is mike. " ??????? What evidence...?
@@sheogorath6834 Hey, I thought Noelle being LV 2 immediately sounded wrong...I theory-crafted an explanation on my own though because it does sound neat, the idea of a human soul being related to the levels. Thanks for bringing that up though.
The problem with the first idea of Kris turning on the TV because of Spamton and Mike is that people often forget that Spamton, aside for your initial meeting with him, is completely optional. So it’s very unlikely that most of Spamton’s dialogue and word choice actually will affect much in the future chapters. I think their initial meeting was enough to get Kris to think about the act of soul possession but anything past that is stretching.
I'm loving these theories videos! One of the first thought I had after seeing the Snowgrave Route was: ok, Kris opened the door to their house... but in the Snowgrave Route, Noelle explicitly says that she wants to keep an eye on Kris because they're acting strange. This could mean that in a Chapter 3 post Snowgrave Route, Noelle might sneak out of the church, enter the door to Kris' house and fall in the new Dark World as well. Maybe, in this way, keeping on the bad route of the game (but not ruining Kris' plan...?). What do you think?
2:36 One notable thing that I don't see many people talking about; Kris *doesnt* put their soul back in at the end of chapter 2; We don't hear the sound nor do we see the hollow red SOUL sprite show up, which we see every other time Kris either ejects or returns their soul.
As others have pointed out the third entity theory loses one of its main pieces of evidence when you consider the save files are clearly being run by the mysterious person (likely gaster) from the intro (chapter 1 file select has dialogue from them). Realistically it makes nearly no sense and would damage the intrigue of Kris character and make things convoluted when they don't have to be.
i've seen a lot of people say that kris maybe doesn't have a soul because they move very weakly, almost like a zombie, after removing the player's soul (or at least, what is assumed to be the player's soul). but i think that they just move like that because they're physically and mentally drained after being controlled. i mean, the only times we can't control kris is when they go to bed, which means that they probably can't get a lot of sleep since they use nighttime to do their own thing (creating dark world, eating pie, etc).
I think turning on the tv is required to make the dark fountain, because the dark world needs to be mirrored in something from the real world, like toys and the internet from the previous chapters. (sorry if my english is bad)
its not required, more so a choice, Kris likes to be private to the player, like hiding Asriel's room from us. I don't think Kris would want us to see things like family portraits and stuff like that.
I personally held the belief that the plan no matter the route is to get the soul out of Kris, Queen explained the rules of a fountain about it creating a world of the one who opened it desires, so my take on the ending is Kris experimenting with the powers of the fountain. Kris takes the soul out but we never actually see them put us back in so maybe what will happen is the will of the soul will bring back our vessel from the beginning and kris will have control over themself again if only in the dark world
Very great ideas! It never even clicked for me that kris possibly chose the tv as the next dark world because of spamton, that’s an awesome idea. I do want to say though, Kris is definitely not in elementary school. It’s mentioned that they are teenagers, so at the least is in 8th grade, as most 8th graders are 13-14, depending on if they were held back a year due to their birthday being after the allowed enrollment period. Personally I see all of them as around 16 or 17, but that’s just the way I see it, doesn’t mean anything xd
My personal theory: Although Kris' trust (no extra s if the possessive already has an s in the end) Despite their resistance to our control being limited to either the tone we say what we choose them to speak in or take our control where they deem the safest in order to preserve us (as for all we know they rely on the soul that we the player possess for Kris to live) Despite their view on our actions in their body, Kris tries to use the control they do have as both a cry for help, and in the case of end of C2-Start of C3 as a way to make use of the whatever way the player goes through the situation that is how you play through the chapter. While testing how bringing Berdly & Noelle to the Darkworld can affect how their soul would alter things in the real world, either just having everyone brush it off as a dream or having Noelle gain confidence through the Snowgrave route, maybe bringing Toriel to the Dark World with Kris and Susie would either work as a cry for help or have us drag her to a dark path that make her connect with Asgore again as the closest thing she'd trust to talk about whatever twisted things we the player would convince her to do, so besides the loss of darkners, in Kris' end it may be a win-win situation whichever way we go in the world they made for us for chapter 3 (but that whole theory may definitely break in chapters 4 & 5 since the next release has been promised to be 3, 4 & 5)
@Graph Wars Inc. what makes you think that he doesn't want to hurt her? btw "your choices dont matter", kris is gonna try to involucrate the police, no matter your choices
turning the tv on could also just be so thered be some kinda sound inside to maybe lure the police in there more? idk if it makes sense but thats what i was thinking anyway
I believe i will be watching more closely. You have some very interesting points and takes at times. It's a pretty sound idea as to why Kris might do these things independently of us. To be frank, it seems only natural. Though, i think you forgot something. We never hear Kris put their soul back. We only see them lift it up into the air to be overtaken first by the Darkness falling. If they put it back, there is no sound accompanying to suggest as much. And we have been shown both processes. Lifting their soul up high wasn't exactly part of it. And neither was the amount of time we see it held aloft. With that said, if you're regardless and everything happens as you observed, then it proves one thing: each chapter is going to involve Kris making some cry for help. And, slight aside... depending on the route, it may become an abandoned plea, setting up for a far darker ending. One we, as ouf actions have dictated, are locked into. Possibly to varying degrees or endings. Moving aside with this, there's one thing I have been very interested in understanding and I think you are as well: Undertale and Deltarune are linked. It's all-but stated. But to what degree, we can't be certain so early. But one line of dialogue makes me really dread the implications. Onion's line of dialogue. She speaks of a Song she can hear coming from the Sea. An OLD song. *That has come up before.* River Person from Undertale spoke of this song as well. "Did you ever hear the old Song coming from the Sea?" What is this Song and what is its purpose? Is it related to the strange resemblance Delta has to Under through characters and otherwise? This thing can be heard, even under the waters of Waterfall under the mountain. How is that? Is Waterfall a secret other exit to the Underground no one knows exists? And most obviously: is this related to the Bunker/Shelter? Does it perhaps tunnel down as far as the ocean floor and produce this tune? We obviously hear a tune near it, but is that the same song? This line could be a red herring, but... Onion mentioning it? Onion's just a simple lonely octo-monster who wants friends and acquaintances. She is nothing, if not loose of lip about all things she finds fascinating. Why would she lead us on? Food for thought. And hardly unintentional. +Addendum: Kris is in the higher grades and is a teen of some middling to later stage. Their intelligence has also been recognized by others.
Also, Toby Fox said in 2014: "ive had a plan for a game (not undertale) for 2 yrs and it seems like someone else is going to make something VERY VERY similar", he is very likely talking about Deltarune and Omori. And if you look at the two games now, they ARE extremely similar, but the thing is Omori has an extremely dark story. This could mean that Deltarune may, or may not have a dark story aswell, but the similarities between Deltarune and Omori are absolutely shocking, which makes deltarune even more likely to have a dark story. Or, perhaps its just a coincidence, and Deltarune's story won't be as dark as Omori or it will be dark in a different way.
I have weird theory that Ralsei told Kris to make the dark fountain, it's not based on much, but it would explain what Ralsei is telling Kris when the player is gone, and suggesting they need to do something like that would explain the need to say something like "so that's why", it also seems like Ralsei, being the one who told Kris about the roaring in the first place, would be the best person to tell Kris to ignore his warnings for one reason or another. This also means Kris was told about the roaring early than other characters, most likely when Susie was doing the prison break, and that could also explain Kris' lack of surprise when Ralsei reveals the roaring at the end of chapter 2 (although they're also rather emotionless anyways). I don't really think this theory is true, but it seems like it's at least possible and I don't think I've heard anyone else mention it before
The greatest mystery in Deltarune is how Kris didn't wake up Toriel or Susie while stabbing the fabric between light and dark, filling the room with a blinding light, and making a sound the entire town would've heard.
Idk how could Kris turn on a TV that isn't plugged in, making it more mysterious. Also I think that Kris will notice if you want to help him with his experiences or not.
In every route Kris ALWAYS makes the dark fountain in the same way - so i think it means that in every route there is something happening that makes Kris: create dark fountain, left the door open(which is very unusual if you think about it because evry time there was a dark world in any room, the door to this room was closed, sooooo maybe he is testing what would happen if he left it open instead?) and turn on TV and let's don't forget about it: put his SOUL back inside (that might be important because we don't even know if Kris needs his soul back in his body because in the ending of the first chapter it didn't look like he did ALSO after a second chapter it seems like Kris need his soul back in his body because it makes him weak but in the first chapter even with soul he was still walking very slowly even with soul and and why do he needs to get rid of his soul in the first place if he can walk freely without it and we CAN'T interfear with his independent movement so - this actually proves that we the SOUL are KRIS but there is someone else that tries to control Kris. Although Why does he want to get rid of his soul??? The only way that doing it could be benefitial that I can think of could be IF with soul he can't think as he wants to think(either the real Kris if we really are controling him against his will or someone else that is controling US in that case). For example he can do easy thing like ripping his heart away but he can't slash the tire or make a fountain.)
Theory for the ending of deltarune: deltarune is the prequel to Undertale Sans doesn't know who we are in deltarune Wich could be a lie, but what if at the end the roaring is unleashed and sans uses a machine in the bunker to escape to another world? And also that would explain the "don't forget" drawing in san's secret lab, Kris, Susie, and ralsei, and maybe there is some connection between the bunker and gaster
0:40 And the lyrics of Big Shot implying Spamton's going through the same thing with 3 separate voices, which would be why Spamton had such an interest in Kris.
I think this will be the only dark fountain that Kris will open in Deltarune. All other fountains have been made by The Knight. I think Kris just wants to go on another fun adventure and let Toriel and Undyne know about the existence of dark worlds. I think that the dark world itself will be centered around the living room in the house. I think the only thing that will be TV-Themed is the Final area of the game, since cabinets were castles in other dark worlds. Mike will probably be the main boss of Chapter 3, since Jevil predicted Queen if you decide to FIGHT him. I think the Secret Boss will be related to Flowey in some way, since flowers are in the trash can at Toriel's House. It would make sense since Seam said the next boss will be almost impossible to defeat, and Flowey turns into Omega Flowey and Asriel Dreemurr in Undertale.
There are two different times that Ralsei sent the player's perspective to Susie & away from him & Kris. & during this time, Ralsei could share game-changing details with Kris. What if Ralsei knew about the Player beforehand? (He has the Prophecy, but only shared the bare minimum with us & Susie as needed. [The essentials in Ch. 1; the nature of the Roaring in Ch. 2] Only Toby knows what else Ralsei is hiding from us. Maybe the Dark fountain in the Dreemurr Home was part of Ralsai's plan to railroad the Player toward Ralsei's ends?
Why are you assuming Kris is in elementary school? All elements indicate that they're at least in middle school, but most likely in early high school. And if the argument is that Toriel is said to be an elementary school teacher, that means nothing. There is only one school in hometown, it naturally makes sense that all the kids would go there, but this doesn't mean they're all the same age. Besides, we get to see Toriel's classroom and it's massively different from Kris's.
Yeah you're right, and honestly it was a mistake in the script to assume that. I kinda realized this 3 days into editing the video, but just thought that nobody would actually watch to the end LOL so thank you!
@@MysticSlime You're welcome lol I don't think this actually changes anything about the theory since there's many possible reasons why Kris could want to turn the TV on.
I always thought he just turned on the TV to take advantage of the static to cover up the sound of the fountain opening, drown it out a lil without drawing attention
I think that the reason he turns on the TV is probably that they want help from Mike. It's true that we the players only know Mike from Spamton, but this is not necessarily the case for Kris. In addition, when we talk about friends with Spamton, he never mentions other addisons that used to be his friends and betrayed him after his success, but rather talks about Mike that is not even in the same Dark World with him, so I guess Mike might be a very successful TV character that probably everyone knows, so Kris tries to turn him into a Darkner and ask for help
Also this could honestly be Kris just trying to hang out with Susie more, when Kris and Susie are closing the Cyber Fountain, Susie says something about how it's gotten alot more interesting ever since the Dark Worlds started popping up, and Susie just makes general hints about enjoying these adventures all throughout the Chapter, so this could be Kris just tryna make Susie happier and hang out with their friends more
7:38 I think Kris might want to do that to learn about Spamton's condition were he's like glitching and is controlled by someone/the strings where Kris also isn't in controll because of the player IDK?
3:46 I remember seeing toriel have a conversation with alphys after you go south when you picked up the items in the unused classroom at the start, i think it went: "-And how have they been doing?" "They've been great tori! A real star!" "Oh, how wonderful." "Have they not been up to anything strange?" "They've been.." "...They're Normal" "Oh that is relieving.." "I just have been concerned lately.." "(Just Lately..?)" And yeah i forgot the rest
I wonder if a tv that has been turned on and a tv that is off will have different dark world outcomes?, in the second chapter even tho we're on the second dark fountain created in the computer rooms, the servers and the place is still on when we fall onto there, it would be curious to see if having different sets would affect the world overall
And here I was thinking this was just something to do with the conversation they all had before leaving cyberworld. Susie basically had everyone convinced they could just stay, that maybe the dark world portals weren’t so bad. Before Ralsei explains “the roaring”.
Isn't Kris in highschool? I figured the school was so small that they could fight all grades into one building, but I thought Kris was either 14 or 15.
Considering Kris' classmates have jobs it was safe for me to assume they were high-school aged. (Berdly in the library and Catti in the diner.) Also Noelle is on the track team and their teacher Alphys has an anime review on the library bulletin and it's teens she's trying to target. She even tried recommending it to Kris in chapter 1.
My Headcanon Pacifist run Kris: We should make Everyone, including you, happy with another Dark World. Genocie run Kris: If more people join Dark World, you will have worse time surviving it, you controlling me little peice of Crap! Also if there will be Chapter 8 to end things, on Genocide route Kris should get enough Determination to fight us and maybe be Hardest boss Toby EVER made up to that point, Worse then Sans, and Secret Bosses even.
Also Kris trust us more on Pacifist but after Genocide he is like: well Toriel's my Mom and Adult, she won't listen to me if Soul will command her to kill, and Susie is Anti-my Soul, so even if, she shouldn't be Trouble to this Soul's plan.
I have another possible reason Kris might have opened another fountain in the Snowgrave route; not only would he rather it be with people he knows can't be manipulated in that way, but also that he'd rather anything like that be in the Dark world rather than the Light world, where it's mostly strangers.
Whatever the cause of Kris' plan, it had to be based on information Kris had by the end of chapter 1. Kris is the most likely person to have plugged the TV in between the end of chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2 (because it is described as appearing unplugged or plugged when inspected in each chapter). Kris eating the pie was the catalyst to get Susie to come over, and the TV being plugged in allowed it to be turned on during the end of chapter 2. It appears that these are what Kris was doing off camera between chapters, similar to Kris slashing tires at the end of Chapter 2. Kris plugging in the TV is incredibly strange to do unless this plan was already in motion. Whatever information Kris is going on, it was something Kris seems to have had prior to going to bed on the first night. If Toby wanted to retcon the TV to be plugged in he could have just changed the flavor text for the TV between chapters 1 and 2, just like how he changed the doors in the library computer lab to be double doors between chapters 1 and 2. I can't help but feel this is very deliberate. Imo the most reasonable place for Kris to get this information is from the conversation with Ralsei during the Susie cutscene, as that is completely unskippable. Any other place Kris could have received this information is likely to start veering into 4D chess Gaster sent Kris a text message telling him to turn on the TV level explanations as far as I can imagine. Though this creates an obvious issue for theories- because we have literally nothing to go off of as to what that conversation with Ralsei could possibly be about, outside of it being something the player shouldn't be privy to. Regardless, Kris' motivations could still be unchanged and completely innocent. It's entirely possible Ralsei was telling Kris how they might separate the player and Kris, and Kris thought he would need the help of Toriel and Susie to complete the process, or anything similar. That's pure baseless speculation on my part though.
"Kris eating the pie was the catalyst to get Susie to come over" Oh my god, Kris ate the pie. They must have planned everything. " Kris plugging in the TV is incredibly strange to do unless this plan was already in motion." Ah yes, so strange to want to watch TV. Probably with Susie he wanted to invite home or even Asriel who is coming home soon.
@@sheogorath6834 the TV is dusty. No one watches TV in this household regularly. Toriel's chair doesn't even face the TV. If the TV was used regularly there is no reason it would even be unplugged and it is unlikely to be dusty. If Kris wanted to watch TV why would they plug it in in the middle of the night when they couldn't use it, and not just before using it the next day when they could watch it? If this was to avoid Toby making an animation for Kris plugging in a TV, Toby could simply describe Kris plugging in the TV in the moment in text instead. Asriel is not coming home for several days, there is absolutely no rush to plug in a TV and no reason to get out of bed, rip the otherworldly entity from your chest out, and plug in the TV that night for his sake. Kris does not have complete control over their body, it seems very unlikely they would be able to simply sit down and watch TV of their own volition if they just wanted to watch TV, even if they did, there is no reason to have to plug a TV in in the middle of the night. Susie eventually moves to turn the TV on while hanging out, not Kris. Even if you interact with the TV while Susie is in the house, Kris does not turn the TV on or make any indication that it would be nice to watch TV. If Kris is just really hankering for some TV, Kris is not letting us know that. Kris doesn't even suggest Susie comes over. If this is what Kris wanted, which it appears to be, it's strange Kris makes no effort to indicate to Susie to do so. A fake dialogue box where you could react to Susie obviously not wanting to stop hanging out would solve this problem immediately but it does not exist. If we want to assume that Kris is opening the dark fountain because Susie is here, because Susie makes Kris feel safer, but is not attempting to make obvious moves to facilitate her coming over, why shouldn't the consequences of Kris eating an entire pie be mentioned? It is the thing that facilitates Susie coming over. Kris has a number of strangely prophetic lines, such as "it is not yet time to wash your hands" at the beginning of chapter 2, which indicates that Kris knows that they will be washing their hands later, which we see is used as a cover to slash tires at the end of chapter 2. ("Oh that's just a funny line because everyone washes their hands eventually" you know perfectly well this is suspicious in the context of future actions) You can't tell me you don't think this is incredibly weird. What is the point of including any of this if it was not deliberate on the part of Toby? I'm not suggesting some kind of 4d chess, I'm suggesting Kris is going on information given to them by someone which we, the player, do not have access to.
@@5sparks "why would they plug it in in the middle of the night" Same reason that they eat a pie in the middle of the night. "Kris has a number of strangely prophetic lines, such as "it is not yet time to wash your hands" at the beginning of chapter 2, which indicates that Kris knows that they will be washing their hands later" That's a line from the Narrator. Kris is not the narrator.
@@sheogorath6834 Kris enjoys eating pies. If Kris just ate the pie and that was it, it would not be suspicious. If Kris ate the pie and Susie just happened to sleep over that would be a different thing entirely. Are you suggesting Kris enjoys plugging in electronics? If Kris plugged in the TV for the same reason Kris ate the pie, what reason is that if not to facilitate the events at the end of chapter 2? Narrator wise, fine. I cannot prove if we are being given Kris' thoughts or just normal narration. In hindsight, that is a matter of personal interpretation on my part and not concrete.
@@5sparks How does plugging in a TV mean Kris has it all planned out? While there's no indication they knew how to create a fountain until Queen explained it?
My idea on the tv if your theory for the most part is correct is the dark world needs a basis or theme, the board games in the closet, the computers in the library, all of those made a themed dark world so maybe they need a theme for it so they chose tv
I just thought Kris opened the door to let the smoke out. Not much to it other than that. But I like the idea of them leaving it open for the police to come in if anything goes wrong.
Kris at least CARES about Susie, as they protect her on their own against Chaos King in Chapter 1 and in Chapter 2 Susie is able to cheer Kris up after the Spamton Neo fight
That Kris is actually using the last of their strength to make sure the police learn about the Dark World (whether we chose the dialogue option or not, in true Deltarune form) makes a lot of sense. But I have to wonder if that means half the town is going to end up in a conflict with the mayor for some reason. It's not the most functional town, and a couple times people have gotten divided in these asymmetrical and competitive ways, with Toriel against Asgore, and Noelle separated from Kris, and the mayor taking over most of what the police do. Taken all together it kind of seems like Kris rallying a large part of the town behind them independent of the mayor is somehow going to anger her. Maybe she wanted to cover up Dark Fountains?? Who knows
I I know I’m late but, nobody seems to be talking about the fact that ralsei continuously wants to talk to Kris without the view of the player, I think he might have told Kris to open the fountain
There are some nuances and certain problems with this, but I don't think this theory is correct because Kris could just tear the player out in front of Susie and Toriel and tell the two what is going on
I'm saying this because I don't think anyone figured this out yet but if Spamton always say that Mike betrayed him, It's because Spamton is an embodiement of those old shows back in the days when it was presented by a puppet(kinda like kermit) and now it's more like presented by actual People and stuff, like Mike. You can figure this out by the way the narrator tells you the backstory of Spamton during his Spamton NEO fight(he lost everything and in the end there were no audience). To me your theory isn't stupid at all, because event in the snowgrave route Spamton NEO briefly evoke Mike when he says something like: "to screw me over at the good part, what are you, a gameshow host?". So in all Route Kris has heard about Mike, and even if he don't, I don't think of why it would alter his plan.
The only reason it would alter their plan is because in the neutral route Kris doesn't always hear about Mike, so if Mike is the main reason for them turning on the TV then it doesn't make sense they still do in that route.
@@MysticSlime yeah what you're saying makes sense because after all Spamton NEO still is a secret boss in the normal route. I guess that gives the third entity theory credit. But there is one thing people tends to forget, that is that at the end of chapter 1, Kris manage to lock us in a cage and after opening the fountain he, or the third entity, freed us. That means that whatever they're planning it includes us, the player controlling them at least for a while don't you think? To me that's the only think that debunk your theory.
The thing is that even in a neutral route Berdly can't use his arm and in a snowgrave/weird route he is very likely dead so why would Kris EVER want something like that to even potentially happen to his own mom?
So something I don't think people call out is the ending cutscene for chapter 1 ( we've all seen it ), and specifically, what I think really happens there, so as we learn from queen, using Determination anybody can create a dark fountain with some sort of blade, like we see Kris do at the end of chapter 2 with his knife, and what exactly does Kris pull out at the end of chapter 1, his knife, and what appears in the computer lab the day after? A dark fountain... Which means that Kris created the dark fountain at the computer lab, although I don't think Kris is the knight, as Queen would have recognized him as the knight when they came into this new dark fountain. Another thing, it seems like Kris wants to bring people into the dark world one way or another, I think Kris knew that Noelle and Birdly were gonna go study at the computer lab like the A+ students they are, and I think in Chapter 2, he was intending to bring Toriel and Undyne into this new dark world, otherwise, what would be his motive for slashing the tires of Toriel's car prompting her to call the police? The reason as to why he would want this I can't think of, but I guess we just have to wait for future chapters to find out...
Ralsei wants to close the fountains opened by the Knight. Kris seems to want to make them now despite the fact that it would cause The Roaring and destroy the Darkner and Lighter worlds, which I thought Kris would want to protect since it’s an escape from real life things that are affecting them more than anyone seems to know. Or maybe Kris just wants to encounter the Titans for some reason? Some questions could get answered in Ch 3 but probably we’ll wind up with a lot more.
One big thing I'd like to clarify that I see keep popping up in the comments: saying that Kris is an elementary student late into the video was a mistake LOL. I noticed it about 3 days into editing, but I simply thought "eh nobody will watch to the end so it'll be fine". Thank you to all of you guys who actually DID though, and you're completely right; Kris is most likely a middle-high school student, not elementary.
I want to point out that if Undyne saw the dark world first hand ,that would mean she would likely have to make arrests based on that knowledge. would could lead to every possible crime you commit in both peaceful recruit everyone and beat up every in chapter 1 than snowgrave chapter 2 being prosicuted. And honestly this insane scenerio is one worth of it's own video, even if it would be fanfic. The worst part is despite everything the player does in snowgrave, Noelle i still the one who killed Birdly, meaning if it's found out there is no way she's getting out a murder charge. Cause she did murder Birdly as far as we can tell from the post dark worlds of snowgrave.
The video repeats 2/3 times?
You still control kris in the light world. The sans line about meeting him before and the heart going to the dialogue. So the player told undyne about the dark world.
@StrastTheFox the fucks your problem?
I'd argue that Kris is actually in grade 11 or 12, judging from how Berdly shares a class with them and how concerned he is over getting on in his life once him and Noelle no longer share a class
I wonder if the reason Kris decided to turn on the TV is that a TV-themed Dark World is much less intrusive than a Dark World centered around their home life. Kris has a history of withholding highly personal information from the Player. Whether it's their brother's internet search history or details about the state of humankind, Kris goes out of their way to make sure that the Player doesn't know their history and their relationships. I can only imagine the type of world that would manifest with everything that the Dreemurr family has been through (Asgore and Toriel's separation, Asriel going to college, Kris's insecurities about not being a monster, etc.). With this in mind, a TV Dark World seems a lot more standard than a Dark World ruled by, say, the Bouquet of Flowers that Toriel threw in the bin symbolizing her animosity towards Asgore.
Actually, the bouquet might STILL become a part of the Dark World, seeing as how the trashcan with the pink and yellow papers resembled Spamton
But we never know, tbh
Well, TV dark world is not gonna happen, it will be home themed dark world. With a TV as Main antagonist. Bouquet of flowers is likely gonna be next secret boss
@@xstar9567 wow okay how did you get into my mind again? Because that's almost the same thing I was thinking
Dysfunction town lmfao
@@xstar9567 por que no los dos?
Here's an idea: If Kris didn't turn on the TV, the Darkners generated by the Dark Fountain will most certainly be made from the objects in their house. Sooo, after the fountain is sealed and they are encouraged to bring the Darkners to Castle Town, they would basically be throwing away their entire kitchen, living room, and maybe more. BUT, with the TV on, the new Dark World can possibly be generated based on TV channels instead. So, all they would be getting rid of in the end is an old TV that they barely use. A much more reasonable sacrifice.
If I remember correctly, all the darkners in chapter 2 were immediately sent into Castle Town, without bringing anything from the Computer Lab. It's because we recruited them.
@@thehomeredone That might have been done virtually, What if the closet had a computer there? We still dont know how it looks like, Only Spade kingdom room we know, But ralsei's domain nothing about, Possibly why Ralsei is able to travel to the cyber world
@@jackoxy9860 That's still a rough way to put it, but you may be right. A computer being there is plausible, but remember that the internet was not working at the city that day, meaning that they did not have a way to connect. Maybe in some other way that has not explained? Though it's Toby here, he's gonna surprise us.
@@thehomeredone No, it's mentioned that Kris gathers up everything before he leaves.
@@timohummel9996 ? I just rewatched a quick gameplay and there was no animation about kris gathering up anything from the Computer Lab.
Personally, I don’t think that Kris opened the front door in order to let the police in. After all, Kris and Susie’s entrance into the supply closet and computer lab Dark Worlds have shown that the door to a room containing a Dark Fountain need not be left open in order for Lightners to walk inside.
Rather, I think that Kris decided to open the door in order to make it seem like the Knight had snuck in while everyone was asleep, created the Dark Fountain, and quickly fled the scene. This will help to draw unwanted suspicion away from them.
As for why they turned on the TV, I think you’re pretty spot on. If they’re going to secretly and impulsively create their own Dark World, why not spice up their adventure by bringing in a cast of quirky characters characters from TV?
The main thing about the door is that I presume Toriel probably locked it. Not only is it a good thing to lock the door late at night, but ESPECIALLY if someone mysteriously slashed your car tires. The door to the library presumably wasn't locked, so I assume the main reason is that the police would have to bust down the door to get inside if Kris didn't either unlock it or just open it. It might also encourage the police to go inside the house if they see a house with the door left open.
@@MysticSlime Fair point. It could be a combination of both reasons.
@@MysticSlime I believe in some places it's also illegal for police officers to enter a home without a special warrant or invitation, unless the door is unlocked.
@@MeloniestNeon yeah, but Toriel did call and ask them to come over, I feel like getting a call about someone moving around in the dark and slashing tires is probable cause to enter the house ESPECIALLY if the door is open, someone might be hurt
@@MysticSlime not sure if someone mentioned it, but what about mettaton? What if mettaton became of the popular characters on tv, and we probably meet him in chapter 3? Just thoughts, any way all we have to do in our situation is to wait for the next chapter :ь
Btw, thank you for your videos, it's interesting to watch them!
One thing we can say about Snowgrave is that it’s hard to see what Kris thinks about that route, or how it affects Kris
Also, Kris does know about the light world changing the dark world, since if you interact with the Ferris wheel poster in the library after closing the fountain, Kris thinks about how their day would’ve been different if a different poster was there
Yeah, all we got is that Susie seems a little worried about them, when she asks if they're okay, not finishing the sentence, but saying something about their look, where Ralsei enters into the conversation asking if Kris is hurt, implying that Kris isn't looking too well, but even that doesn't seem enough to reach a conclusion on Kris's thoughts.
Kris doesnt appear to be super pleased with the snowgrave route, considering that Kris shows obvious signs of not wanting to go through with a lot of the choices that lead to the route being completed
@@MysticSlime Yeah, i also think that! I don't think Kris means any harm to their friends or family, and just wants to be free of our control.
Is hard but I have seen pretty good interpretations. They seem betrayed, because I think that even when they didn’t trust entirely in “the player” we actually have been good with them in the past. We help them make friends and survive in the darkworld, so I think that he let us intervene and see things because he genuinely think that maybe we can help. Even though, for them it sucks to be controlled and to be forced to do things they don’t like.
In snowgrave always the alternative option to “Proceed” is very different than normal options. Are things like: I am sorry, let’s solve it toguether. Using a lot the word I or kind of apologizing.
Also, Kris denying us to see Susie and Noelle has being interpreted as Kris blocking us for protect Noelle of more harm. In general I think that they are very traumatized and displeased.
Kris probably understood dark worlds by chapter 1 considering chapter 1's dark world is pretty much designed around his whole predicament.
(Nobody cares about you or your choices, you can get slight variations on what you pick but it all leads to the same outcome)
That and it contains the first unskippable Ralsei talks to Kris in secret scene where Ralsei ignores your answer to redirect the view of the Player by sending it to Susie's perspective. Meaning Ralsei definitely could have explained to Kris how dark worlds spawn when first created which would explain his irrational behavior at the end of CH2.
During the entire course of Chapters 1 and 2, Susie is shown to be the more independent of the gang...she doesn't listen to our orders initially and only comes around when things get serious with Lancer. None of our actions solidify Kris' friendship with Susie...it was Kris' attempt to defend Susie from King that caused her to call Kris her friend. In turn, Susie starts listening to Kris and treating them like their best friend the very next day. Susie in turns enables the use of the "ACT" command for party members, confusing Ralsei but enabling us to "defeat" the boom box crew via dancing. Of all their friends, Kris clearly trusts Susie the most and despises our control, so much to the point that they're willing to rip us our of their body to their potential harm and risk death in order to gain freedom somehow(Spamton notes their desperation at one point in Chapter 2). It's evident that Kris planned this as early as the end of Chapter 1 as early Chapter 2 if you go into the bathroom, it says "it's not time to wash your hands yet" hinting towards the ending of Chapter 2, creepily mind you now I think about it. Kris played along and let things play out as they would for this chapter and then made their move at the end, trapping their Mom and Susie along with them. Tori and Susie are not individuals that can be so easily manipulated like poor Noelle. This, in my mind, is a call for help. Even if you take the initiative and try to tell Office Undyne, they don't believe Kris for a second. Kris wants their life back...so if they have to create a Dark World in their living room to do it, so be it. So, at the end of Chapter 2, Kris slashes their Mom's tires to keep Susie around...which causes Tori to think there's a prowler about and calls the police later on. Kris, Susie and Tori go to sleep later on. Kris wakes up, opens the door, turns the TV on, looks at Susie for a sec and opens the fountain. This is not a third party controlling Kris. This Kris in desperation mode trying to get us to give up control and expose the threat of the Dark Worlds.
Honestly, good one
I mean, even if we're recruiting every single Darkner and doing everything as peacefully as possible; A benign tumor is still a tumor.
Even if you're being manipulated into doing things that your conscience can live with, you're still being manipulated.
Kris is seeking outside help from the only 3 people Kris knows will keep us in check;
The Mom that'll know when something's amiss, The Cop who can benchpress Cars, and the friend with enough will to tell us no.
I think the reason why Kris slashed the tires is to give a reason for Tori to call the police, which then leads them to Kris' dark world. This would solidify Kris' point to Undyne about Dark Worlds existing.
@@thegreendragon5390 without the soul though, the world falls into darkness
If we stop playing, there is no hope for them
Not to mention how in the pacifist route we only give Kris more friends
I can't wait until we finally get our vessel back
@@hisprincessprincess4916Kris doesn't necessarily know that, though, since we're only told that in the game over screen. Also, they're a teen, so they may not be thinking things through much beyond "I am being possessed, I do not want that.
Agree about the vessel tho.
9:55 small nitpick/"correction" : When first meeting Queen Susie outright says that they're not children and Queen replies with "teeneger are merely bigger children" so depending on your point of view this either heavily implies or outright confirms that Susie and Kris are teenegers. The elementary class in the school could possibly be explained with the town possibly being small enough to justify a mixed grades school
There are 2 or maybe even 3 in my town, and we’re a relatively average-sized place
My Area’s about to get one,and this is in literal NYC.
Also Temmie & Jockington hang out at the Teen Zone, which implies they're teens.
Toriel does actually notice Kris acting weird, once you get the ball of junk to bring back to hometown you can go down and hear a conversation between toriel and alphys where toriel is asking if alphys notices anything different about Kris
Worth mentioning, Dialogue on the TV shows it was only plugged in during the ending of chapter 1, so the second theory is questionable if Kris doesn't know how to even make a dark fountain yet. Something far stranger is going on here.
Yeah I noticed that too, although it may have been plugged in by Toriel its more likely it was Kris seeing as they turn it on
I think that Toriel is the one who plugged in the TV after Kris had fallen asleep, in anticipation of having their new friend over to visit sometime soon and/or Asriel’s return from college sometime next week.
@@psychopomp4135 doesn’t make that much sense really
@@philltheotherguy1868 Does make sense when you realize she was excited about Kris having a new friend. They haven't had friends since Asriel left for college.
Kris plugged the TV because they probably wanted to invite Susie over. Why on earth would they need to know how to create a fountain to want to watch TV?
my first guess for kris turning on the TV was to give the player a challenge; if we dont have a boss to fight or to lead and organize the enemies we fight, we might just be able to quickly cruise on through to the fountain and close it without any resistance, giving toriel and susie less time to find out something is wrong with kris, and decreasing the chance that toriel realizes it isn't a dream
...given how chapter 1's cliffhanger was resolved though, maybe it is just to bring susiezilla to life
Toby is a great trolling creator he can do anything to start at ch3
and he can also make a plot and not just jokes
@@the_real_emelie_crosscode yea
But if every ending ends up being a joke,although it would fit Kris's behavior as a prankster,it would get stale really quickly
@mahoushoujo well he did eat that entire fucking pie
In Chapter 3, I wonder if you start from someone else’s POV, as they discover the fountain, or if you will start in the Dark World already, and maybe after some events Undyne enters it, maybe Napstablook as well.
If TV characters end up becoming darkners Kris will probably end up carrying the TV to the school closet on their head
ok yea this is definitely happening lol
Toriel: *KRIS WHERE THE FK IS THE TV!?!?!?!
There's one theory floating around that says the point of the weird route is to make Noelle as strong as possible by getting rid of various hometown residents so that Noelle has nobody to lean on, like Undyne.
That's a scary thought considering the last thing you make Noelle do to complete the Chapter 2 portion of that route lines up with that theory & considering she's been known to lean on Asriel, who's supposed to be coming home soon.
8:00
I actually am inclined to believe Ralsey is much more involved in talking Kris into creating the Dark Fountains than it appears.
Yes, Ralsey is scared about unleashing too much darkness and the ,, Roaring" presumably but he is VEEERY upfront about wanting you to befriend everyone and bring them to his own Fountain to rule over(not in a malicious way probably).
It's possible that during the cutscenes between Ral and Kris we don't see Sey explains about the importance of making more fountains and bringing Darkners together in his world.
If that is the case it makes much more sense why Kris would make the 2 fountains we know were made using Determination and the Knife (the Librarby and TV worlds).
Also don't forget Ralsey was alone for the duration between Chapter 1 and 2 before he specifically asks YOU to bring the toys from the Light World classroom to his World - yes in-game time it may have been only a day but for him it may have seemed more(it is used as a joke about game development but I won't be surprised if time passes differently in the Dark and Light World) .
ok a couple snip bits to their theory its been kinda proven time and time again amongst the fandom that kris didn't make the fountain in the library due to evidence on how Noelle and Birdley is positioned in the room that being the books being open and both sitting down at the desk along with the piece of dialog said when you interact with the closet saying that it could fit a whole person possibly meaning that A. the knight is a lightner and B. kris cannot be the knight as of course this is Toby Fox we are talking about he wouldn't give us another dark world making the knight seem more of a threat that they are making more dark fountains and immediately show that its kris at the end of chapter 2 out of possibly 6
@@ChronoMoth
Did you forget how we and Susie entered the room or are you just Spitbolling here?
We JUMPED into the Dark World yet we ended up on the chairs when we came back. I doubt i have to explain to you that Toby isn't a god and hasn't thought of everything ever when making his game.
A. The pie cutting at night is a misdirect
B. Kris is at least IMPLIED to have created that fountain by queen Reminder (plunged their KNIFE into the earth) idk why people are so into going against literally everything Toby has said or implied.
Edit : not to mention we literally see them creating a fountain at the end of chapter 2 , again being contrarian for no reason
@@zeo4481 im not spit balling there are many theories against kris being the knight it wouldn't make sense to make a villain such a big deal to then reveal them in the 2nd chapter its not spit balling if im following the theorize of the majority
Actually, what Ralsei was opposed in that moment specifically was on making a Neo dark fountain (like what Queen wanted to do, punch the ground inside the darkworld to make that Fountain huge and allow it to cover a lot more area than the computer lab. Also, I suppose that make a lot of normal dark fountains could be wrong, but if they do it cautiously it could make the Castle Town populated and strong and maybe that will be important in the end? Who knows? Is just a game theory jajaja
@@zeo4481 It is because this game will have episodic releases. It is logical to asume that some things that seem to be implied are misdirections. What people don’t agree about is which ones are misdirections and which ones are canon. Maybe Kris spent the entire night watching tv and eating pie? Who knows haha. Toby is also a kind of prankster at making games.
With respecto to the fountain at the librarby, it doesn’t make sense that Berdly and Noelle were in the middle of a study session and Kris opened the fountain there, because Kris was in castle town after Noelle went to study to the librarby. If Kris opened the fountain in the night, they would have entered voluntarily to the black room and I think that they would remember that. So this is weird and is contradictory. Also, the narrator saying that a big body could fit in the closet is so weird... seems to imply that Kris suspects that somebody hid in there to make the fountain.
Also, there was a text that Toby posted a while ago when he described a new intro that he wanted to make for the full game, and in that intro the Knight is a different character than Kris. And also, another detail. The King of Spades talked to the Knight and knew personally the Knight. How in the world The King wouldn’t recognize the Knight if Kris were the Knight?
That are the main reasons why people opposed into believing that Kris is the Knight and that he opened the fountain in the computer lab, respectively and I think that are valid reasons and not so far fetched.
And also, all of them appearing in the table is not a plot hole. In chapter 1 Kris and Susie entered the darkworld using the closet, and when Kris closed the fountain they appeared in the unused classroom, near the shelf that was supposed to represent the card castle near the “equivalent” of the dark world place where they were at the end. So how they entered is not related to where they appear after.
Queen could have being tricked into thinking that Kris was the Knight because when the fountain opened in the computer lab the face of the person was impossible to see. So the fountain of the computer lab could have been opened but Kris or the Knight, we don’t know, and the evidence is being contradictory on purpose.
All of that is built in order to have ambiguity and for us not being able to discern which one is true with evidence. This is clear for me.
Or maybe Kris was testing if dark worlds really are influenced by outside objects when created?
While possible and interesting, given Toby’s methods of writing, it wouldn’t make much sense for kris to do it just for that purpose, especially after ralsei tells them that it could bring the roaring
@@darker1376
I get your misunderstanding, I was specifically referring to the TV being turned on.
Not opening a fountain.
So, I agree totally with all of this. Kris is NOT a bad kid, and they want strong people like Susie, Toriel and the police around to help. (They also even try and talk to the Mayor about it). And I don’t think their actions are being “controlled” by anyone without their soul (and, in fact, I do believe the red soul IS theirs; but because we are possessing it, the only way for them to be free is to rip it out, (which takes a shit tonne of determination if you think about it), but that makes them weak and zombie like. Which, obviously tearing out your soul would do that).
However, while I don’t think there is a third entity INSIDE of Kris, there is definitely at least a third entity “pulling the strings” of this story.
If evidence is to be believed, Gaster seems to be the one who actually linked us, the player, to Kris’ soul (unless the person who discarded our creation was another _different_ entity, then THAT character was the one who linked us).
There is also Ralsei, or as I like to think of them, the Dungeon Master of this story. There’s how they keep trying to keep things “on schedule,” (their own schedule? Someone else’s schedule?) And how they try to talk to Kris alone at least once a chapter, and get distressed when they can’t do so during Snowgrave.
So I think there is definitely more going on here than meets the eye. Also, I just find it so fascinating (and heartbreaking) how Susie is the one character with basically no idea of the sinister undertones of this story. And how she and other lighteners can’t remind you or tell you what buttons to press, unlike other Darkners such as Ralsei and Lancer.
Also! Regarding the fact that “Kris hasn’t met Spamton in the Snowgrave Route,” and hence “can’t want to find out more about Mike in all timelines.” . . I think that is false. Because we are forgetting one thing: time travel and the nature of saves. This aspect may not be the focus of the games thus far, like they were in Undertale, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t an _aspect._ Also, a lot of the “Deja Vu” Undertale characters exhibit is from the fact that you are a “new character” to them and also may have killed them, which are both aspects not present here. What’s to say that Kris _doesn’t_ remember all the versions you did? So will always want to know more about Mike? I will say this IS just a theory tho. :P
And one more, slightly off topic, thing but: I’ve been really curious about what happens if you have both an active “Pacifist” AND “Genocide” run present? Via your three save files? Does this affect anything? Like how the Genocide run “ruins” any pacifist runs you may try to complete thereafter? Food for thought.
How could Kris remember a run that never happened though? Even on your first run, Kris will always turn on the TV no matter what.
@@D_YellowMadness Kris doesn't, but the player (or whoever is controlling Kris) does. (idk if that makes sense)
"And how they try to talk to Kris alone at least once a chapter, and get distressed when they can’t do so during Snowgrave." Ralsei has a crush on Kris. He gets distressed because he was able to have alone time with them like in chapter one. idk if this is ENTIRELY true, but its just something to chew on.
@@LandonRock the soul didn't choose to turn on the TV
We didn't do it, Kris themselves did if
@@hisprincessprincess4916Yeah, I agree, Kris literally doesn't have the soul inside them whenever they interact with the tv.
What really interests me about Kris’s plan is that it seems to have been planned before we even enter the Cyber World. That morning, checking the sink yields the text “It is not yet time to wash your hands,” and the TV is plugged in, despite not being plugged in for a long time. This leads me to hypothesize that Kris had this idea during the night between Chapters 1 and 2, as that’s when the flavor text changes, possibly when doing whatever they were doing in addition to eating pie.
This yet raises more questions, such as whether Kris learned this from an outside source, or perhaps even by Ralsei in the offscreen segments.
Furthermore, someone a while back discovered that the TV static noise is actually a distorted and slowed track of Entry 17’s mus_smile, raising concerns about Gaster and his potential, if at all existent, relationship with Kris. [Edit: this is merely apparent; I have no personal verification, but a source does exist in the comments.]
I’m just kinda just throwing out ideas here; your explanation about Snowgrave seems to make sense. Good work; looking forward to more!
I think that Toriel is the one who plugged in the TV, in anticipation of having Kris’ new friend over to visit and/or Asriel’s soon return from college.
"It is not time to wash your hands" is just the narrator stopping us
"Furthermore, someone a while back discovered that the TV static noise is actually a distorted and slowed track of Entry 17’s mus_smile, raising concerns about Gaster and his potential, if at all existent, relationship with Kris." Source?
@@sheogorath6834 I just played around with the sound files myself, out of curiousity... I personally can't find a connection at all. There's just nothing interesting at all in the TV static noise, at least to my untrained eyes... Although I did find out that mus_smile is actually made up from Muffet's laugh, just extremely slowed down, then reversed, and that two times, with a weird moaning noise in between... That's probably already known, but it's news to me. (And creepy as heck when I first heard it, whilst messing with the file. Just knowing that that already creepy sound file is actually a laugh... ugh.)
Eitherway, I would be interested in seeing a source on that as well, since I couldn't find anything.
@@g4_61 Oh damn, that's amazing stuff!
I'll definitely give that a try myself.
This certainly brings up some interesting ideas and questions, although it could also just be yet another, seemingly random way that Tobi added mus_smile into the game...
There's also the bunker and phone calls in dark worlds, that are connected to that audio...
As the author of that post already said - Gaster is all over this damn game.
Here's the thing: remember that the Dark World is also considered a place of fantasy and the imagination. To create what Kris is making, it would take incredible levels of imagination and will to turn the fantasy into reality. It also gives a smidge of credence to how Lancer remembers things as a card, given he travels in Kris' pocket.
That moment still gives me CHILLS. If all that effect was for nothing I'm gonna be really upset
I've seen a lot of people say that Kris never puts their soul back so that they be free from it for at least a little bit, but if you remove the layer of smoke by modding, it shows that Kris DOES put their soul back.
it is already implied kris did so anyways, why do people think kris didn't? held it up like that for nothing?
i actually think that the mike and spamton theroy holds up due to the fact that it would be kinda hard to fit any mike references into the snowgrave route fight and also because the snowgrave route is supposed to be different from the route you normaly take, so not having any mike references would just be fitting to the situation that spamton is in during the snowgrave route
Something I dont think is pointed out often is the idea that the relationship between Kris and the Knight might be similar to Asriel and Flowey. The same being but distinctly different given the lack of a soul.
Yeah the theory is a bit weird because Kris did plug in the TV between chapter 1 and 2 which makes sense if he wanted to create a TV world just because of his fav anime characters being in it or whatever but it does have the issue of us having to assume Kris knew they were capable of making dark fountains before Queen confirmed it in chapter 2. Could be an oversight on Toby's part or could be confirmation that Kris has made one before (which fits the theory they're the knight but also the theory that Ralzei's fountain was created by Kris while the knight is a different person that created the other two fountains).
Kris is shown to not like anime, if you interact with the notice board in the library they don’t want to read the anime section.
But Kris hates anime
Or Kris just wanted to watch TV with Susie or Asriel when he gets home.
Interestingly we are never shown Kris putting their soul back, they're actually holding it up almost to introduce it to the fountain separately.
I doubt anything will come from this but it's interesting.
Idky I though kris was holding it up like how you hold up a glass of a drink, basically to say ‘here’s to another adventure!’ But the more I think about that the more stupid it seems.
@@chrisgarrett6305
While yes that definitely sounds a bit stupid I do find that idea quite funny.
And honestly we know so little about Kris as a person that it's entirely possible their the type to do something like that.
I saw a theory somewhere in the comments of this video, where the soul that Kris pulls out is also THEIR soul and that the player is just possessing Kris' soul.
@@LandonRock
Honestly that's always how I've interpreted it.
Actually if you remove the smoke by modding the game, you can see Kris put their soul back.
Assuming that Kris did warn Undyne of the dark world...
Perhaps Undyne couldn't capture all 5 of the escaped dog prisoners before she would investigate the fountain in time. Imagine what she has to do to capture them all, who may have scattered everywhere in town. Or maybe she would just forget about the dogs to get to Kris's house immediately when the fountain opens up.
I don't think Napstablook, the other policeman, would do much about the situations.
Two certain things strike me when Kris "opened" a dark fountain in their home. It made a very loud noise, yet neither Toriel or Susie woke up from their sleep. Also Kris doesn't immediately place their soul back inside them, and they just hold it up while the dark fountain's smoke fills the house. In chapter 1, a lot of people were making a ton of theories about what Kris planned to do with the knife they were holding, and yet it turns out Kris just used it to get a slice of pie from Toriel's fridge. I wouldn't be all too surprised Kris never actually opened a dark fountain, and this was another benign thing. I saw someone comment a similar thing a while back in another Deltarune theory video, and they gave the very excellent point that Kris may have just used a smoke bomb or something similar to create the dark fountain's apparent mist, and it's meant to be a prank for when Susie and Toriel to wake up to. As for Kris holding up their soul, perhaps in the next chapter they don't actually place it inside them. Perhaps they just hold it out as a little fourth wall break like in chapter 1, when they stared directly at us while holding a knife. In chapter 3 it may be up to us to try and regain control of Kris as they, Susie, and Ralsei go on another Dark World adventure without us. That's just my idea though. This video was very fun to watch, and I can't wait to see more content!!!
well their hair WERE being pushed up
and the way they did stop mid-air while those cool symbols appeared behind them seems to me like an ''execution of spell''
(also slashed tires and stuff)
They literally created a fountain in front of us. Even the files used at the end of Chapter 2 indicate that Kris did indeed create a fountain.
@@sheogorath6834 Files? I don't recall what you mean by that. How do the files at the end of chapter imply that Kris actually opened a dark fountain?
@@thefarlander2050 You know, the game files? Their name is quite clear. "kris_make_foutain"
Also "foutain_make" which is the sound of the creation of the foutain. and "foutain_target", whatever that is.
@@sheogorath6834 Yo never knew that, thanks for showing. That quite changes things actually lol. Still it is kind of weird how Toriel and Susie didn't hear the fountain open, but I'll guess we'll see soon
Great video, and a huge thanks for mentioning my channel!
There is one thing about your theory though that bothers me. If we (as the player) skipped Chapter 1, it means Kris wasn't under our control during that time. Your statement still works in the current context, since we have to play Chapter 2 for now, but if Toby will allow us to skip it as well, it would mean that we can no longer use the player's influence as a source of motivation. This is why I only talked about it loosely in my own video.
Yeah, the whole skipping Chapter 1 thing is a weird topic for me to be honest. I have to do more research into it, but I essentially don't know if its meant to be "well Kris LITERALLY went through Chapter 1 by themselves" or if its meant to just be a game mechanic. I see this brought up a lot and the more I hear about it the more difficult of a question it is. I know Toby likes to get meta with his games and this mechanic could affect the actual world of Deltarune like saving/loading does, but not every single game mechanic is canon to Deltarune's world either. It's a weird topic and I have to look into it much more; it might even be a topic worth covering on the channel.
The single largest flaw Deltarune has is how hard it blurs the line between diegetic story elements and nondiegetic gameplay mechanics. It's most likely that chapter skipping is solely a mechanic.
yeah i think since Kris still does what they did in chapter 1 (eating pie etc) then its most likely a game mechanic and not a story element. its just there for convenience
3:30 This was my standing theory since CH2 released. Especially if You talk to Undyne and she disbelieves Kris. Could be a play to get themselves out of the situation. It's the only theory I have that doesn't work off "we'll find out later" variables
3:55 Thing is, she _did_ notice. She liked that Kris changed and started making friends besodes Noelle. That must have worried Kris in CH1
6:38 Something that makes me sus of Kris being the Knight is that this got plugged in during CH1 night but that's a red herring due to the intro sequence. This might be a play to hide their own life from Susie, since if my theory of how the DF functions is right, every darkner would be inspired by the interactions with the objects they are made from. Imagine a Shadow Crystal Holder made from the Bouquet... also maybe they are seeking Mike.
This is a good explanation if going with the idea that Kris is creating the TV Dark World for some reason. I do however lean more towards the Third Entity scenario. My biggest argument for it being that if Kris is the one doing these actions at night, this would imply Kris has the capability of taking control back at any moment, meaning they are ultimately the one in control. If this is the case, their fears expressed towards Spamton's situation make no sense, as does their inaction during moments such as Snowgrave. Kris also shows much more agency while we control them then most immediately assume. They speak to Ralsei and Susie even though we don't hear their dialogue, they perform certain actions on their own such as protecting Susie from King, hiding the contents of Asriel's room in Queen's mansion, and they show personal interest in helping Spamton. There is also still that mysterious second voice from the intro that seems to be responsible for placing the player in Kris to begin with.
I get the feeling Kris only has the ability to assume control in very specific situations. Things like the minor control over how they phrase the player's dialog options, such as after the Spamton NEO fight. This also shows up in the form of split second actions mid-cutscene like jumping in front of susie to protect her from the King in Ch.1. In the light world however, i believe they are taking advantage of moments when the player would be very unlikely to assume control. Like, who would want or need to exert control over a sleeping person or someone in the middle of washing their hands, right? Its times when your brain would just sorta enter autopilot or an inactive state, no control needed. It certainly fits with how "set up" the end of Chapter 2 is, Kris making sure they were both alone and performing a very mundane task so they could act without interference. This also leads me to believe that Kris cannot live for very long without their soul (Obvious, i know lol), hence the strange movements and them not being able to do it very often due to the potential strain on their body, which would also explain why Kris doesn't just keep the soul out of their body.
I always assumed Kris can only take full control and move independently during cutscenes or something
Like moments where the player is actually unable to do anything because the game is just showing something to them. So Kris can move because there's no inputs being sent so they can take the opportunity to remove the soul and take control.
Or in situations where they don't remove the soul they can only really do small actions that can't defy the will of the player. Like they can't stop Noelle during snowgrave because the player obviously wants it to happen. And protecting Susie doesn't defy anything since Susie getting hurt is a non option regardless, Shes a teammate
And ignoring all of that they're also obviously really weak after taking out the soul, they basically stumble around, they can't walk properly. So they really can't reassume control because they'd likely die or something
I can't wait for chapter 3 for one REALLY big reason- we get to see other Undertale originating characters as dark world variants. Will Toriel look like she did in Undertale? Will she be more like what she was in one of the fan games, which depicted her as a sort of heroic mage? What about Undyne? I'd love to see her dawn another suit of armour.
i really love your videos dude, its great to see someone actively analyzing the game and putting so much effort into accuracy. youve looked at the game from a lot of angles that i never wouldve thought of myself but totally make sense once i do. keep it up!!
Thank you! I really appreciate it
Here’s my theory for why Kris created the dark fountain…
In the first chapter, Kris and Susie are told about the Legend, and that the world is destined to be engulfed by darkness only for the hero’s to save the day. Throughout the game there is this reoccurring theme about destiny and how your choices don’t matter. That no matter what, everything will end in the exact same way. So what if Kris, thinking this, realizes that the world facing calamity is an inevitability, as well as the three heroes saving it.
So if that’s the case, then perhaps Kris decides that it wouldn’t hurt to “speed things up” a bit. If things really will end as they are foretold, then causing the calamity early will only result in the game ending sooner and things returning to normal.
So upon hearing about the roaring, Kris hatches a plan to create a dark world within their house. Kris creating the situation where Toriel calls the police, and subsequently opening the door for them, is to ensure that as many Lightners as possible are lured into the dark world. After all, Berdly and Noelle were just inches away from causing the roaring themselves, so the more Lightners, the better.
I don't particularly believe in the 3rd entity theory, but I had a thought.
During Spamton Neo's post battle dialogue, he says "But you three, ... you're strong. With a power like that... Maybe you can break your own strings."
So far, Kris is the only character shown to have an idea of any "strings." Susie definitely has no clue what any of that meant, and Ralsei either doesn't know or has no desire to "break their own strings", going by how they glossed over Kris's distress.
Maybe Spamton wasn't talking about Susie and Ralsei when he said you three, maybe he was referring to Kris, The Player, and the 3rd entity.
Thanks to the Spamton's Sweepstakes we also got new informations. It seems like Kris doesn't really knows how to play piano, as Noelle described in her blog, their face suddenly got blank, as if they were switching personality, and only then they would go play piano. It seems Kris is a vessel for more entities that we can think, and was already under control of someone/something else before we as the player came in Deltarune's world.
To stop all you
Kris! Did your internet get repaired?
@@KrisDreemmur you ain’t thanos
Oh boy the king of the viruses
Consider the following:
-Burgerpants likes asriel (as a friend or cool dude, kris connection)
-Noelle probably has connections to a previous dark world (she is always at least level 2 and her costume is not cyber themed meaning she was in another dark world once) therefore dark worlds have been adventured in before
-various evidences (cat theming of mike and spamton, connection to mettaton, cat ads in darkworld, bp getting a portrait and connection to ice es which will probably be a dark world at some time) point to mike being the true name of burgerpants and thus he is mike. Probably being involved with dw shenanigans from asriel and dess’ theoretical adventures (remember: the chess board was said to be once a large dark world like the card kingdom at one point)
Therefore kris may believe that he can get additional backup from mike who definitely will have darkworld knowledge under this theory.
That could be true honestly
This little tidbit of a theory isn't too bad, but I do have one issue - Susie's outfit doesn't match any Dark World we've seen so far. If you're basing the theory of "Dark World look is based on the first Dark World one enters" on Berdly alone, you failed to consider the main cast. Yes, Kris' outfit *sort of* looks knightly, which would kind of match the medieval fantasy theme *supposedly* implicit to Castle Town - the First Dark World Kris was in - But considering all the theoretical connections to Kris that Ralsei has(and the fact that, well, he looks like Kris' brother who they miss dearly); More likely is, that's just a childish "adventurer" thing. Susie's outfit, on the other hand, is something straight out of the nineties - a black leather jacket complete with spiked shoulder pads and braces, purple baggy pants and rubber boots. That does not fit the guesswork theme of Castle Town's Medieval fantasy, or even Card Kingdom's theme of card and tabletop games which she is actually connected to, and it DEFINITELY doesn't fit the very modern internet-themed Cyber World.
As for Noelle being level 2 - Considering she levels up to three in the Weird Route IIRC, and the King Fight with Kris' soul "Shining" on the Fun Gang, I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that just being near a powerful human soul can level up a monster. That might be part of why Ralsei was so insistent on Kris taking the leader role, even though Susie seems so against being led even after her redemption.
I've heard the theory of Noelle being in a Dark World in the past, but I just can't buy that. We're supposed to believe she was confused and terrified at the beginning even though she'd been in a place like this before and definitely seemed to have put up a fight, trying to navigate the world alone even though she very much could have gone back to find the Fun Gang after being tossed to the side by Berdly, AND humoured and fucked with Susie with those two jokes about killing herself after being told it was a dream? Not to mention, she literally thinks about Dess, so if Dess and Noelle's supposed experience in the Dark World was together...she would likely connect the dots right there and then. If the Holidays DO have any connection to the Dark World then my guess? Dess is acting alone. Perhaps even...she's the Knight. Doubt it, but it's possible.
"-Noelle probably has connections to a previous dark world (she is always at least level 2 and her costume is not cyber themed meaning she was in another dark world once) therefore dark worlds have been adventured in before" Wrong. Noelle is LV1 when she joins the team. She only passes LV2 if she changes "title". For example, by using Iceshock once.
"-various evidences (cat theming of mike and spamton, connection to mettaton, cat ads in darkworld, bp getting a portrait and connection to ice es which will probably be a dark world at some time) point to mike being the true name of burgerpants and thus he is mike. " ??????? What evidence...?
@@sheogorath6834 Hey, I thought Noelle being LV 2 immediately sounded wrong...I theory-crafted an explanation on my own though because it does sound neat, the idea of a human soul being related to the levels. Thanks for bringing that up though.
The problem with the first idea of Kris turning on the TV because of Spamton and Mike is that people often forget that Spamton, aside for your initial meeting with him, is completely optional. So it’s very unlikely that most of Spamton’s dialogue and word choice actually will affect much in the future chapters. I think their initial meeting was enough to get Kris to think about the act of soul possession but anything past that is stretching.
I'm loving these theories videos! One of the first thought I had after seeing the Snowgrave Route was: ok, Kris opened the door to their house... but in the Snowgrave Route, Noelle explicitly says that she wants to keep an eye on Kris because they're acting strange. This could mean that in a Chapter 3 post Snowgrave Route, Noelle might sneak out of the church, enter the door to Kris' house and fall in the new Dark World as well. Maybe, in this way, keeping on the bad route of the game (but not ruining Kris' plan...?).
What do you think?
2:36 One notable thing that I don't see many people talking about; Kris *doesnt* put their soul back in at the end of chapter 2; We don't hear the sound nor do we see the hollow red SOUL sprite show up, which we see every other time Kris either ejects or returns their soul.
As others have pointed out the third entity theory loses one of its main pieces of evidence when you consider the save files are clearly being run by the mysterious person (likely gaster) from the intro (chapter 1 file select has dialogue from them).
Realistically it makes nearly no sense and would damage the intrigue of Kris character and make things convoluted when they don't have to be.
i've seen a lot of people say that kris maybe doesn't have a soul because they move very weakly, almost like a zombie, after removing the player's soul (or at least, what is assumed to be the player's soul). but i think that they just move like that because they're physically and mentally drained after being controlled. i mean, the only times we can't control kris is when they go to bed, which means that they probably can't get a lot of sleep since they use nighttime to do their own thing (creating dark world, eating pie, etc).
Actually that makes alot of sense. good theory man
I hate to be that guy but you mean thought
I think turning on the tv is required to make the dark fountain, because the dark world needs to be mirrored in something from the real world, like toys and the internet from the previous chapters. (sorry if my english is bad)
Nah we'll have chair and couch world.
its not required, more so a choice, Kris likes to be private to the player, like hiding Asriel's room from us. I don't think Kris would want us to see things like family portraits and stuff like that.
@@RadTony this is canon until said otherwise by toby
I personally held the belief that the plan no matter the route is to get the soul out of Kris, Queen explained the rules of a fountain about it creating a world of the one who opened it desires, so my take on the ending is Kris experimenting with the powers of the fountain. Kris takes the soul out but we never actually see them put us back in so maybe what will happen is the will of the soul will bring back our vessel from the beginning and kris will have control over themself again if only in the dark world
Very great ideas! It never even clicked for me that kris possibly chose the tv as the next dark world because of spamton, that’s an awesome idea. I do want to say though, Kris is definitely not in elementary school. It’s mentioned that they are teenagers, so at the least is in 8th grade, as most 8th graders are 13-14, depending on if they were held back a year due to their birthday being after the allowed enrollment period.
Personally I see all of them as around 16 or 17, but that’s just the way I see it, doesn’t mean anything xd
My personal theory: Although Kris' trust (no extra s if the possessive already has an s in the end)
Despite their resistance to our control being limited to either the tone we say what we choose them to speak in or take our control where they deem the safest in order to preserve us (as for all we know they rely on the soul that we the player possess for Kris to live)
Despite their view on our actions in their body, Kris tries to use the control they do have as both a cry for help, and in the case of end of C2-Start of C3 as a way to make use of the whatever way the player goes through the situation that is how you play through the chapter. While testing how bringing Berdly & Noelle to the Darkworld can affect how their soul would alter things in the real world, either just having everyone brush it off as a dream or having Noelle gain confidence through the Snowgrave route, maybe bringing Toriel to the Dark World with Kris and Susie would either work as a cry for help or have us drag her to a dark path that make her connect with Asgore again as the closest thing she'd trust to talk about whatever twisted things we the player would convince her to do, so besides the loss of darkners, in Kris' end it may be a win-win situation whichever way we go in the world they made for us for chapter 3 (but that whole theory may definitely break in chapters 4 & 5 since the next release has been promised to be 3, 4 & 5)
Obviously Toriel hid the light-smoke pie from Kris under the floor but Kris knew.
kris wants the cop to arrive so he can prove to them that the DW does exist
@Graph Wars Inc. what makes you think that he doesn't want to hurt her? btw "your choices dont matter", kris is gonna try to involucrate the police, no matter your choices
@Graph Wars Inc. I'd love to learn more about Asgore and see napstablook
9:51 I don't think Kris is in elementary school. Queen from chapter 2 refers to the lighteners as "teens" or "teenagers."
I agree. How many elementary school students are on a track team. (Which Noelle is in.) Along with Berdly and Catti having jobs. (Library and Diner)
0:07 Kris casually attempting to deorbit the earth.
Daaaaang! Good shiz! How do you draw all these conclusions and have it all make SO MUCH SENSE?? Super cool. Subbing for sure
Thank you so much!
turning the tv on could also just be so thered be some kinda sound inside to maybe lure the police in there more? idk if it makes sense but thats what i was thinking anyway
I believe i will be watching more closely. You have some very interesting points and takes at times.
It's a pretty sound idea as to why Kris might do these things independently of us. To be frank, it seems only natural. Though, i think you forgot something.
We never hear Kris put their soul back. We only see them lift it up into the air to be overtaken first by the Darkness falling.
If they put it back, there is no sound accompanying to suggest as much. And we have been shown both processes. Lifting their soul up high wasn't exactly part of it. And neither was the amount of time we see it held aloft.
With that said, if you're regardless and everything happens as you observed, then it proves one thing: each chapter is going to involve Kris making some cry for help.
And, slight aside... depending on the route, it may become an abandoned plea, setting up for a far darker ending. One we, as ouf actions have dictated, are locked into. Possibly to varying degrees or endings.
Moving aside with this, there's one thing I have been very interested in understanding and I think you are as well: Undertale and Deltarune are linked. It's all-but stated. But to what degree, we can't be certain so early. But one line of dialogue makes me really dread the implications. Onion's line of dialogue. She speaks of a Song she can hear coming from the Sea. An OLD song.
*That has come up before.*
River Person from Undertale spoke of this song as well. "Did you ever hear the old Song coming from the Sea?"
What is this Song and what is its purpose? Is it related to the strange resemblance Delta has to Under through characters and otherwise? This thing can be heard, even under the waters of Waterfall under the mountain. How is that? Is Waterfall a secret other exit to the Underground no one knows exists? And most obviously: is this related to the Bunker/Shelter? Does it perhaps tunnel down as far as the ocean floor and produce this tune? We obviously hear a tune near it, but is that the same song?
This line could be a red herring, but... Onion mentioning it? Onion's just a simple lonely octo-monster who wants friends and acquaintances. She is nothing, if not loose of lip about all things she finds fascinating. Why would she lead us on?
Food for thought. And hardly unintentional.
+Addendum: Kris is in the higher grades and is a teen of some middling to later stage. Their intelligence has also been recognized by others.
Also, Toby Fox said in 2014: "ive had a plan for a game (not undertale) for 2 yrs and it seems like someone else is going to make something VERY VERY similar", he is very likely talking about Deltarune and Omori. And if you look at the two games now, they ARE extremely similar, but the thing is Omori has an extremely dark story. This could mean that Deltarune may, or may not have a dark story aswell, but the similarities between Deltarune and Omori are absolutely shocking, which makes deltarune even more likely to have a dark story. Or, perhaps its just a coincidence, and Deltarune's story won't be as dark as Omori or it will be dark in a different way.
I could see this theory and the third entity theory both happen at once.
I have weird theory that Ralsei told Kris to make the dark fountain, it's not based on much, but it would explain what Ralsei is telling Kris when the player is gone, and suggesting they need to do something like that would explain the need to say something like "so that's why", it also seems like Ralsei, being the one who told Kris about the roaring in the first place, would be the best person to tell Kris to ignore his warnings for one reason or another. This also means Kris was told about the roaring early than other characters, most likely when Susie was doing the prison break, and that could also explain Kris' lack of surprise when Ralsei reveals the roaring at the end of chapter 2 (although they're also rather emotionless anyways). I don't really think this theory is true, but it seems like it's at least possible and I don't think I've heard anyone else mention it before
The greatest mystery in Deltarune is how Kris didn't wake up Toriel or Susie while stabbing the fabric between light and dark, filling the room with a blinding light, and making a sound the entire town would've heard.
agreed lol
Idk how could Kris turn on a TV that isn't plugged in, making it more mysterious. Also I think that Kris will notice if you want to help him with his experiences or not.
Kris is nonbinary
In every route Kris ALWAYS makes the dark fountain in the same way - so i think it means that in every route there is something happening that makes Kris: create dark fountain, left the door open(which is very unusual if you think about it because evry time there was a dark world in any room, the door to this room was closed, sooooo maybe he is testing what would happen if he left it open instead?) and turn on TV and let's don't forget about it: put his SOUL back inside (that might be important because we don't even know if Kris needs his soul back in his body because in the ending of the first chapter it didn't look like he did ALSO after a second chapter it seems like Kris need his soul back in his body because it makes him weak but in the first chapter even with soul he was still walking very slowly even with soul and and why do he needs to get rid of his soul in the first place if he can walk freely without it and we CAN'T interfear with his independent movement so - this actually proves that we the SOUL are KRIS but there is someone else that tries to control Kris. Although Why does he want to get rid of his soul??? The only way that doing it could be benefitial that I can think of could be IF with soul he can't think as he wants to think(either the real Kris if we really are controling him against his will or someone else that is controling US in that case). For example he can do easy thing like ripping his heart away but he can't slash the tire or make a fountain.)
Honestly I think I get it now. This makes so much sense
Finally someone who use they/them for Kris cross applesauce
Theory for the ending of deltarune: deltarune is the prequel to Undertale
Sans doesn't know who we are in deltarune
Wich could be a lie, but what if at the end the roaring is unleashed and sans uses a machine in the bunker to escape to another world? And also that would explain the "don't forget" drawing in san's secret lab, Kris, Susie, and ralsei, and maybe there is some connection between the bunker and gaster
0:40 And the lyrics of Big Shot implying Spamton's going through the same thing with 3 separate voices, which would be why Spamton had such an interest in Kris.
6:00 This, my friends, is why the red bar is one of the most useful features in TH-cam. Who are you kidding?
I think this will be the only dark fountain that Kris will open in Deltarune. All other fountains have been made by The Knight. I think Kris just wants to go on another fun adventure and let Toriel and Undyne know about the existence of dark worlds. I think that the dark world itself will be centered around the living room in the house. I think the only thing that will be TV-Themed is the Final area of the game, since cabinets were castles in other dark worlds. Mike will probably be the main boss of Chapter 3, since Jevil predicted Queen if you decide to FIGHT him. I think the Secret Boss will be related to Flowey in some way, since flowers are in the trash can at Toriel's House. It would make sense since Seam said the next boss will be almost impossible to defeat, and Flowey turns into Omega Flowey and Asriel Dreemurr in Undertale.
There are two different times that Ralsei sent the player's perspective to Susie & away from him & Kris.
& during this time, Ralsei could share game-changing details with Kris.
What if Ralsei knew about the Player beforehand? (He has the Prophecy, but only shared the bare minimum with us & Susie as needed. [The essentials in Ch. 1; the nature of the Roaring in Ch. 2] Only Toby knows what else Ralsei is hiding from us.
Maybe the Dark fountain in the Dreemurr Home was part of Ralsai's plan to railroad the Player toward Ralsei's ends?
Why are you assuming Kris is in elementary school? All elements indicate that they're at least in middle school, but most likely in early high school. And if the argument is that Toriel is said to be an elementary school teacher, that means nothing. There is only one school in hometown, it naturally makes sense that all the kids would go there, but this doesn't mean they're all the same age. Besides, we get to see Toriel's classroom and it's massively different from Kris's.
Yeah you're right, and honestly it was a mistake in the script to assume that. I kinda realized this 3 days into editing the video, but just thought that nobody would actually watch to the end LOL so thank you!
@@MysticSlime You're welcome lol
I don't think this actually changes anything about the theory since there's many possible reasons why Kris could want to turn the TV on.
I always thought he just turned on the TV to take advantage of the static to cover up the sound of the fountain opening, drown it out a lil without drawing attention
I think that the reason he turns on the TV is probably that they want help from Mike. It's true that we the players only know Mike from Spamton, but this is not necessarily the case for Kris. In addition, when we talk about friends with Spamton, he never mentions other addisons that used to be his friends and betrayed him after his success, but rather talks about Mike that is not even in the same Dark World with him, so I guess Mike might be a very successful TV character that probably everyone knows, so Kris tries to turn him into a Darkner and ask for help
Also this could honestly be Kris just trying to hang out with Susie more, when Kris and Susie are closing the Cyber Fountain, Susie says something about how it's gotten alot more interesting ever since the Dark Worlds started popping up, and Susie just makes general hints about enjoying these adventures all throughout the Chapter, so this could be Kris just tryna make Susie happier and hang out with their friends more
To me I think the tv is supposed to be the main component of the new dark world
7:38 I think Kris might want to do that to learn about Spamton's condition were he's like glitching and is controlled by someone/the strings where Kris also isn't in controll because of the player IDK?
3:46 I remember seeing toriel have a conversation with alphys after you go south when you picked up the items in the unused classroom at the start, i think it went: "-And how have they been doing?" "They've been great tori! A real star!" "Oh, how wonderful." "Have they not been up to anything strange?" "They've been.." "...They're Normal" "Oh that is relieving.." "I just have been concerned lately.." "(Just Lately..?)" And yeah i forgot the rest
I wonder if a tv that has been turned on and a tv that is off will have different dark world outcomes?, in the second chapter even tho we're on the second dark fountain created in the computer rooms, the servers and the place is still on when we fall onto there, it would be curious to see if having different sets would affect the world overall
And here I was thinking this was just something to do with the conversation they all had before leaving cyberworld. Susie basically had everyone convinced they could just stay, that maybe the dark world portals weren’t so bad. Before Ralsei explains “the roaring”.
third entity is so stupid from an actual writing stand point, like actually M.Night Shamalan tier twist, Toby is way above that
With the smile on the tv I was eagerly waiting for eyes to open and a Flowey laugh to play
I didn't understand anything since I don't speak English, but interpreting everything I see I can say that good video.
Isn't Kris in highschool? I figured the school was so small that they could fight all grades into one building, but I thought Kris was either 14 or 15.
Considering Kris' classmates have jobs it was safe for me to assume they were high-school aged. (Berdly in the library and Catti in the diner.)
Also Noelle is on the track team and their teacher Alphys has an anime review on the library bulletin and it's teens she's trying to target. She even tried recommending it to Kris in chapter 1.
My Headcanon
Pacifist run Kris: We should make Everyone, including you, happy with another Dark World.
Genocie run Kris: If more people join Dark World, you will have worse time surviving it, you controlling me little peice of Crap!
Also if there will be Chapter 8 to end things, on Genocide route Kris should get enough Determination to fight us and maybe be Hardest boss Toby EVER made up to that point, Worse then Sans, and Secret Bosses even.
Also Kris trust us more on Pacifist but after Genocide he is like: well Toriel's my Mom and Adult, she won't listen to me if Soul will command her to kill, and Susie is Anti-my Soul, so even if, she shouldn't be Trouble to this Soul's plan.
Also Turning on TV... something to fuel creation of Dark World more.
I have another possible reason Kris might have opened another fountain in the Snowgrave route; not only would he rather it be with people he knows can't be manipulated in that way, but also that he'd rather anything like that be in the Dark world rather than the Light world, where it's mostly strangers.
Whatever the cause of Kris' plan, it had to be based on information Kris had by the end of chapter 1. Kris is the most likely person to have plugged the TV in between the end of chapter 1 and the beginning of chapter 2 (because it is described as appearing unplugged or plugged when inspected in each chapter). Kris eating the pie was the catalyst to get Susie to come over, and the TV being plugged in allowed it to be turned on during the end of chapter 2. It appears that these are what Kris was doing off camera between chapters, similar to Kris slashing tires at the end of Chapter 2. Kris plugging in the TV is incredibly strange to do unless this plan was already in motion. Whatever information Kris is going on, it was something Kris seems to have had prior to going to bed on the first night.
If Toby wanted to retcon the TV to be plugged in he could have just changed the flavor text for the TV between chapters 1 and 2, just like how he changed the doors in the library computer lab to be double doors between chapters 1 and 2. I can't help but feel this is very deliberate.
Imo the most reasonable place for Kris to get this information is from the conversation with Ralsei during the Susie cutscene, as that is completely unskippable. Any other place Kris could have received this information is likely to start veering into 4D chess Gaster sent Kris a text message telling him to turn on the TV level explanations as far as I can imagine. Though this creates an obvious issue for theories- because we have literally nothing to go off of as to what that conversation with Ralsei could possibly be about, outside of it being something the player shouldn't be privy to.
Regardless, Kris' motivations could still be unchanged and completely innocent. It's entirely possible Ralsei was telling Kris how they might separate the player and Kris, and Kris thought he would need the help of Toriel and Susie to complete the process, or anything similar. That's pure baseless speculation on my part though.
"Kris eating the pie was the catalyst to get Susie to come over" Oh my god, Kris ate the pie. They must have planned everything.
" Kris plugging in the TV is incredibly strange to do unless this plan was already in motion." Ah yes, so strange to want to watch TV. Probably with Susie he wanted to invite home or even Asriel who is coming home soon.
@@sheogorath6834 the TV is dusty. No one watches TV in this household regularly. Toriel's chair doesn't even face the TV. If the TV was used regularly there is no reason it would even be unplugged and it is unlikely to be dusty.
If Kris wanted to watch TV why would they plug it in in the middle of the night when they couldn't use it, and not just before using it the next day when they could watch it? If this was to avoid Toby making an animation for Kris plugging in a TV, Toby could simply describe Kris plugging in the TV in the moment in text instead.
Asriel is not coming home for several days, there is absolutely no rush to plug in a TV and no reason to get out of bed, rip the otherworldly entity from your chest out, and plug in the TV that night for his sake. Kris does not have complete control over their body, it seems very unlikely they would be able to simply sit down and watch TV of their own volition if they just wanted to watch TV, even if they did, there is no reason to have to plug a TV in in the middle of the night. Susie eventually moves to turn the TV on while hanging out, not Kris. Even if you interact with the TV while Susie is in the house, Kris does not turn the TV on or make any indication that it would be nice to watch TV. If Kris is just really hankering for some TV, Kris is not letting us know that.
Kris doesn't even suggest Susie comes over. If this is what Kris wanted, which it appears to be, it's strange Kris makes no effort to indicate to Susie to do so. A fake dialogue box where you could react to Susie obviously not wanting to stop hanging out would solve this problem immediately but it does not exist. If we want to assume that Kris is opening the dark fountain because Susie is here, because Susie makes Kris feel safer, but is not attempting to make obvious moves to facilitate her coming over, why shouldn't the consequences of Kris eating an entire pie be mentioned? It is the thing that facilitates Susie coming over.
Kris has a number of strangely prophetic lines, such as "it is not yet time to wash your hands" at the beginning of chapter 2, which indicates that Kris knows that they will be washing their hands later, which we see is used as a cover to slash tires at the end of chapter 2. ("Oh that's just a funny line because everyone washes their hands eventually" you know perfectly well this is suspicious in the context of future actions)
You can't tell me you don't think this is incredibly weird. What is the point of including any of this if it was not deliberate on the part of Toby? I'm not suggesting some kind of 4d chess, I'm suggesting Kris is going on information given to them by someone which we, the player, do not have access to.
@@5sparks "why would they plug it in in the middle of the night" Same reason that they eat a pie in the middle of the night.
"Kris has a number of strangely prophetic lines, such as "it is not yet time to wash your hands" at the beginning of chapter 2, which indicates that Kris knows that they will be washing their hands later" That's a line from the Narrator. Kris is not the narrator.
@@sheogorath6834 Kris enjoys eating pies. If Kris just ate the pie and that was it, it would not be suspicious. If Kris ate the pie and Susie just happened to sleep over that would be a different thing entirely. Are you suggesting Kris enjoys plugging in electronics? If Kris plugged in the TV for the same reason Kris ate the pie, what reason is that if not to facilitate the events at the end of chapter 2?
Narrator wise, fine. I cannot prove if we are being given Kris' thoughts or just normal narration. In hindsight, that is a matter of personal interpretation on my part and not concrete.
@@5sparks How does plugging in a TV mean Kris has it all planned out? While there's no indication they knew how to create a fountain until Queen explained it?
0:06 the sound of the fountain being made *heavily* unsettles me, like if a jumpscare were about to happen, except behind me, in real life.
Oh wait. Kris left the door open. Oh shoot, everyone needs to run or else they will be trapped in an entire DARK UNIVERSE!!
Kris's plan is to return his control so that we don't ruin his choices to become nothing
they
. they
.. THEY!
That smile at the end of Chapter 1… i feel like I’ve seen that face before, but I don’t wanna believe it’s them pulling our own strings again.
@@BoredomIncarnate16 Who’s Flowey?
My idea on the tv if your theory for the most part is correct is the dark world needs a basis or theme, the board games in the closet, the computers in the library, all of those made a themed dark world so maybe they need a theme for it so they chose tv
Interesting analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
I just thought Kris opened the door to let the smoke out. Not much to it other than that. But I like the idea of them leaving it open for the police to come in if anything goes wrong.
And now Tenna throws an absolute wrench into this theory
From what I got from the sweepstakes, it's Tenna that's pulling the strings so far and Mike could be the one needing help.
“One last video before bed.”
The perfect video 10 minutes long just like I need
Little confused why Kris should trust Susie, I doubt Kris has ever really interacted much with Susie.
Kris at least CARES about Susie, as they protect her on their own against Chaos King in Chapter 1 and in Chapter 2 Susie is able to cheer Kris up after the Spamton Neo fight
That Kris is actually using the last of their strength to make sure the police learn about the Dark World (whether we chose the dialogue option or not, in true Deltarune form) makes a lot of sense. But I have to wonder if that means half the town is going to end up in a conflict with the mayor for some reason.
It's not the most functional town, and a couple times people have gotten divided in these asymmetrical and competitive ways, with Toriel against Asgore, and Noelle separated from Kris, and the mayor taking over most of what the police do. Taken all together it kind of seems like Kris rallying a large part of the town behind them independent of the mayor is somehow going to anger her. Maybe she wanted to cover up Dark Fountains?? Who knows
I I know I’m late but, nobody seems to be talking about the fact that ralsei continuously wants to talk to Kris without the view of the player, I think he might have told Kris to open the fountain
There are some nuances and certain problems with this, but I don't think this theory is correct because Kris could just tear the player out in front of Susie and Toriel and tell the two what is going on
I'm saying this because I don't think anyone figured this out yet but if Spamton always say that Mike betrayed him, It's because Spamton is an embodiement of those old shows back in the days when it was presented by a puppet(kinda like kermit) and now it's more like presented by actual People and stuff, like Mike. You can figure this out by the way the narrator tells you the backstory of Spamton during his Spamton NEO fight(he lost everything and in the end there were no audience). To me your theory isn't stupid at all, because event in the snowgrave route Spamton NEO briefly evoke Mike when he says something like: "to screw me over at the good part, what are you, a gameshow host?". So in all Route Kris has heard about Mike, and even if he don't, I don't think of why it would alter his plan.
The only reason it would alter their plan is because in the neutral route Kris doesn't always hear about Mike, so if Mike is the main reason for them turning on the TV then it doesn't make sense they still do in that route.
@@MysticSlime yeah what you're saying makes sense because after all Spamton NEO still is a secret boss in the normal route. I guess that gives the third entity theory credit. But there is one thing people tends to forget, that is that at the end of chapter 1, Kris manage to lock us in a cage and after opening the fountain he, or the third entity, freed us. That means that whatever they're planning it includes us, the player controlling them at least for a while don't you think? To me that's the only think that debunk your theory.
The thing is that even in a neutral route Berdly can't use his arm and in a snowgrave/weird route he is very likely dead so why would Kris EVER want something like that to even potentially happen to his own mom?
9:46 thought they were in high school, that’s why Susie was able to be held back and shiz
So something I don't think people call out is the ending cutscene for chapter 1 ( we've all seen it ), and specifically, what I think really happens there, so as we learn from queen, using Determination anybody can create a dark fountain with some sort of blade, like we see Kris do at the end of chapter 2 with his knife, and what exactly does Kris pull out at the end of chapter 1, his knife, and what appears in the computer lab the day after? A dark fountain... Which means that Kris created the dark fountain at the computer lab, although I don't think Kris is the knight, as Queen would have recognized him as the knight when they came into this new dark fountain. Another thing, it seems like Kris wants to bring people into the dark world one way or another, I think Kris knew that Noelle and Birdly were gonna go study at the computer lab like the A+ students they are, and I think in Chapter 2, he was intending to bring Toriel and Undyne into this new dark world, otherwise, what would be his motive for slashing the tires of Toriel's car prompting her to call the police? The reason as to why he would want this I can't think of, but I guess we just have to wait for future chapters to find out...
Good job! This is a really smart theory!
Maybe Kris wanted background noise while he sleeps, and he just hitted a gaspipe.
Ralsei wants to close the fountains opened by the Knight. Kris seems to want to make them now despite the fact that it would cause The Roaring and destroy the Darkner and Lighter worlds, which I thought Kris would want to protect since it’s an escape from real life things that are affecting them more than anyone seems to know. Or maybe Kris just wants to encounter the Titans for some reason? Some questions could get answered in Ch 3 but probably we’ll wind up with a lot more.