Actually, this whole discussion is ended with one simple phrase: liberal (as understood in Spain and Europe) and liberal (as understood in USA) are diferent, event opposites, to a certain extent.
Right now in America the political group closest to the classic liberals are the libertarians. Liberal has come to mean the opposite of maximizing freedom for the individual from the authority of the state. Instead it means that the state itself is the "generous" power compelling people to do good. The Liberal philosophy is like a king who takes and gives the peoples money in the name of doing good. But it is the libertarians that are the true liberals; if only we could have our word back.
@captwasabi I'm not associating "liberalism" with conservatism. Nor am I associating libertarianism with conservatism. As I believe, all of these "isms" have gone through changes. Some changes which do contradict our convectional modern understanding of their ideological doctrines, so to that end I do I agree with your clarification. Today's "conservatism" is in a transition toward social conservatism and extreme economic liberalism/anarchy -- generally speaking.
@TulliusVII It also seems to me that the word liberal is often just used as the opposite of conservative, so it'S meaning depends on whatever is the old, conservative view of things. I heard that in ex-soviet states liberal and conservative is exactly the other way around as in more western states. I don't know if that's true.
So as i understood that, it evolved (or better put, ended up as, or resulted in) similiar to the words Gay, Tory, Suffragette, and even Big Bang, though its difference being that unlike these, its connotation is a positive one. I love discovering the root word(s) in these vids (this one latin) and its definition and usage context of the period. Thanks again for another interesting info-bite! :)
@captwasabi Actually, it seems what you just described as "classical liberalism" is what we now call "libertarianism". It would also appear that perhaps Washington had a differing view of "liberalism" from yourself. Finding government intervention to be useful if applied for the general welfare of the country. A good example is when he sided with the "Federalists" and against the constraints of strict and literal interpretation of the Constitution on the issue of a government established bank.
@captwasabi Continued: Libertarianism now tends to be liberal about social Issues and extremely liberal or anarchistic about economics. Today's liberals, still tend to be social liberals, but with economic conservatism ideals. Which leads me to how I found your original statement to be quite misleading. Although, the latter hasn't been communicated well through the right winged propaganda noise that portrays them as "parasites", "freeloaders", and "commies" here in the US.
@captwasabi How do you mean? Are you talking about the die hard democratic party "liberals", the damn near anarchistic liberals, or the actually progressive liberals who care more for policy? ...or are you simply making a blanket statement?
Well, you only proved that liberal is not the same as libertarian. The former is a moderately left current while libertarian is a quite radical view that in its pure form denies the right of the state to collect taxes.
@puretroubleman Yeah I've always thought that, and still do. But I'm politically pretty ignorant, and dont live in the states. However, I can see how it would seem an insult, in the mind of someone whose sensibilities are *ahem* religiously inspired... (todays news:..and again these evil afficionado's of progress & freedom conspire to run us all to ruin, chaos and anarchy...) Actually, I think I heard that from the vatican once or twice...(sorry, couldnt help myself ;) )
Actually, this whole discussion is ended with one simple phrase: liberal (as understood in Spain and Europe) and liberal (as understood in USA) are diferent, event opposites, to a certain extent.
Liberal also shares a root with liberty. Same idea of "freedom" from the Latin
I've always found the word liberal to be pretty funny when used in the context of an insult.
Right now in America the political group closest to the classic liberals are the libertarians. Liberal has come to mean the opposite of maximizing freedom for the individual from the authority of the state. Instead it means that the state itself is the "generous" power compelling people to do good. The Liberal philosophy is like a king who takes and gives the peoples money in the name of doing good.
But it is the libertarians that are the true liberals; if only we could have our word back.
@captwasabi I'm not associating "liberalism" with conservatism. Nor am I associating libertarianism with conservatism. As I believe, all of these "isms" have gone through changes. Some changes which do contradict our convectional modern understanding of their ideological doctrines, so to that end I do I agree with your clarification. Today's "conservatism" is in a transition toward social conservatism and extreme economic liberalism/anarchy -- generally speaking.
@TulliusVII It also seems to me that the word liberal is often just used as the opposite of conservative, so it'S meaning depends on whatever is the old, conservative view of things. I heard that in ex-soviet states liberal and conservative is exactly the other way around as in more western states. I don't know if that's true.
So as i understood that, it evolved (or better put, ended up as, or resulted in) similiar to the words Gay, Tory, Suffragette, and even Big Bang, though its difference being that unlike these, its connotation is a positive one. I love discovering the root word(s) in these vids (this one latin) and its definition and usage context of the period. Thanks again for another interesting info-bite! :)
The terms liberal and conservative are utterly inflated beyond any good use, at least in the US.
@captwasabi Actually, it seems what you just described as "classical liberalism" is what we now call "libertarianism". It would also appear that perhaps Washington had a differing view of "liberalism" from yourself. Finding government intervention to be useful if applied for the general welfare of the country. A good example is when he sided with the "Federalists" and against the constraints of strict and literal interpretation of the Constitution on the issue of a government established bank.
@captwasabi Continued: Libertarianism now tends to be liberal about social Issues and extremely liberal or anarchistic about economics. Today's liberals, still tend to be social liberals, but with economic conservatism ideals. Which leads me to how I found your original statement to be quite misleading. Although, the latter hasn't been communicated well through the right winged propaganda noise that portrays them as "parasites", "freeloaders", and "commies" here in the US.
Hey Brady... this WoW video could be revisited through Computerphile if you do a video on Libre Software ;) just sayen.
@captwasabi How do you mean? Are you talking about the die hard democratic party "liberals", the damn near anarchistic liberals, or the actually progressive liberals who care more for policy? ...or are you simply making a blanket statement?
much like the word feminist.
and when used together, my head asplodes
Well, you only proved that liberal is not the same as libertarian. The former is a moderately left current while libertarian is a quite radical view that in its pure form denies the right of the state to collect taxes.
@puretroubleman Yeah I've always thought that, and still do. But I'm politically pretty ignorant, and dont live in the states. However, I can see how it would seem an insult, in the mind of someone whose sensibilities are *ahem* religiously inspired... (todays news:..and again these evil afficionado's of progress & freedom conspire to run us all to ruin, chaos and anarchy...) Actually, I think I heard that from the vatican once or twice...(sorry, couldnt help myself ;) )
paragraphs... EVERYWHERE