I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we need a new proper HEDT platform. Not an overpriced mainstream board with loads of RGB and a completely overbuilt VRM that will only be fully utilised by extreme overclockers with liquid nitrogen; like high-end X870E and Z890. Not an overpriced "server lite" workstation board; like W790, TRX50, or WRX90. HEDT. 16-32 performance cores (and the ability to clock them to 5.5GHz+!), 32-64 PCIe lanes, 4-6 memory channels (full 64-bit channels, not subchannels). This could have a starting price of about $350, which is roughly 50% more than the cheapest Z890s and about the same as the cheapest X870Es (which are disgustingly overpriced - Z890 has the same or more connectivity, yet motherboards with it often cost much less), while still being good value for people building high-end gaming PCs or midrange workstations.
@@nathangamble125 "completely overbuilt VRM" Post this on every video Hardware Unboxed posts where they run a power virus on a CPU and then fail the *completely uncooled* motherboard running an artificial load in an artificial high-temperature scenario if it so much as gets "too hot" (within design specs) or if it "throttles" (typically the CPU throttling itself.) That kind of utterly-ridiculous "testing" is why you have VRM designed to deliver 700+ watts to a component requiring 140 watts and why motherboards are now shipping with up to THREE EPS connectors.
@@tim3172What are you even on about? HUB doesnt run any power virus, just cinnebench, the mobos are cooled by all the case fans ie real world usage, and even in his latest X870 video he explicitly said that the worst performing mobo (~75C) has completely fine VRM temps. You somehow managed to be wrong on eevry single point you made
Thank you for talking about pricing, i mentioned how out of control pricing was becoming recently which is really contributing to this dying industry at the moment. Consumers can no longer afford the newer hardware especially with how expensive cost of living is, so we seem to be seeing a trend of 2nd hand market being the only option or settling for the lower end gear on offer. It saddens me because my industry which is primarily water cooling is really dying out, people cannot afford the PC parts and if they can they certainly cannot afford to water cool their parts. I hate all of the greed involved by companies, it saddens me so much that something i care for can be taken away so easily by greed. I hope things get better.
I've just ordered a few expensive parts for an AMD build with Ryzen 9 7950X, and would love to do custom loop, but just the parts alone makes considering custom loop too expensive as of now :/ might consider it within 6-9 months, I hope..
@@genericscottishchannel1603 I have the RX 7900 XTX which I bought in february/march when it was at it's lowest prices afaik here in Norway, not supporting Ngreedy's prices, at least when AMD is pretty much same price/performance
It's a world record setting motherboard, being analyzed by a world record setter. Grab a Tomahawk, or Hero since none of that is for you, easy solution.
Theyre not releasing tiers of chips so much anymore, as the latest fab processes get more expensive and the old processes continue in manufacturing rather than the machines being replaced, it makes no sense to make tiers of chip on one process. So instead what we get is grossly inflated prices new that just slide downward to discontinuation as they become not worth making, rather than being replaced by a new gen.
yes you have better OC on CPU and faster ram in expense of timings but how much can you really gain here. in gaming. is this that much better thann than lets say ASUS Prime mobo. also how much is the gain in rendering jobs. IMO those mobo's are just for fun experiments and OC.
@@mafcarvalho even the strix boards aren't much better but the prices are hella inflated for them. And Asus shitty support and warranty idk who would buy a 1000$ motherboard from them.
@@rangersmith4652 No different than their Nvidia cards. Their white models have an extra $100 admission fee for purchase compared to the normal black cards. If you want a limited edition anime themed model tack on another $200 if you buy directly from ASUS's website. If it's from a third-party seller then tack on another $500 instead because of their price gouging.
Want to bet it doesn't properly work like the previous top gen versions? I got a ROG ZENITH II EXTREME ALPHA benched and turned off because it to this day is still not stable... Asus refuses support, it must be every other component (not their BIOS that after several updates made it more stable) and it was ~1k 4 years ago... They need to rename themselves to APOS and learn what testing their on-paper specs means... They dump a very expensive system, give every imaginable excuse and in the end, all components work in other pcs... but let's ignore that it blew up a 3990X... or that suddenly it had multiple BIOS updates when LTT was using the same board in a public build and it very similar issues... No, trust APOS to put a big price-tag on things and give you crap. Wait for the tests... wait for the 'AMD has memory issues' comments when in reality it's just APOS not having stable BIOS versions.
Its Asus mate. They sell their boards as if its some kinda rare pink diamonds. Half of the features on this board is useless to most average consumers.
@@Burbund hard to say, not sure if the pandemic really screwed up yields or something but x399 can be found stupid cheap whereas trx40 and newer still hold their value pretty damn well
And bugs they never fix kinda done with asus having used 4 boards all different cpu generation and models (amd and Intel) and having friends also use them coming to me describing the same problems im done switch to asrock only problem i have run into is internal drives can becone external once at random in windows that you can safely remove then (never done that) i never use remove safely as there is no point to using it in windows
Rock Solid. Heart Touching. Well...other than the prices, the RMA issues, the microcode and reliability issues....etc... But definitely Rock SOlid. Heart Touching.
I seriously don't trust asus anymore after the rma fiasco. And a bunch of other stuff. I know they still have a loyal following BUT I think they have lost reputation in a lot of eyes.
@@jessefisher1809They didn’t refuse any RMAs, that was blown way out of proportion…but tweaking BIOSes to burn out CPUs because of high SOC voltage was definitely on them. They have definitely become more focused on form over function which is sad given their history of such great products.
Only reason I bought an expensive X670E mobo (MSI MEG ACE) was that I needed its PCIe allocation configuration options (20 lanes directly to the PCIe slots, specifically 16 to the primary, 0 to the secondary, and 4 to the tertiary). But unless someone actually needs those sorts of features, there's no reason to buy top end motherboards these days, they all offer very similar feature sets, the differences between which most people won't notice.
Motherboard prices are just going nuts... It was nice to have nice looking mobo back in the day when you could get premium mobo for 300€-400€ but now you can get entry level for almost same price.....
Remember when the motherboard was simply the power and signal distribution network, and its appearance was unimportant? Now it's the star of the show. Windowed cases started this whole aesthetics trend, and it's been fun, but we need to get back to building PCs, not parade floats. That would help a lot in controlling prices. But I'm pretty sure that train has left the station.
Part of this insane motherboard pricing is the new and short lived socket. I bet manufacturers are projecting lower sales numbers and try to recoup production setup costs across lower total number of boards they will sell. Still, $1400 is an overkill!! Take ASUS WRX-90 board for Threadripper, PCIe5, tons of x16 slots, tons of memory slots, tons of 10Gbe and all the bling you want for just $1000, bargain!
"new and short[-]lived socket." Intel has traditionally always replaced the socket every other generation. This started with Sandy Bridge over a decade ago. LGA1700 was the odd one out, supporting three generations (12/13/14). Also... how can you call something both new and short-lived? Those are diametrically-opposed ideas. You can't have something that's both new and already obsolete or outdated. It's still actively in production, so... you don't know if it will be "short-lived".
I am fairly certain that the "quad channel" support you talk about here was already taken advantage of in LGA 1700 and AM5 systems. It's a core part of the DDR5 spec and not an optional feature. I distinctly remember AMD causing confusion because they claimed that Ryzen 7000 supports quad channel memory on some slides when they were just referring to this feature of DDR5.
I was about to say this, haven't watched the video yet, so will find out. I'm predicting he's going to talk about the 32bit sub channels on DDR5. EDIT: He did.
He said the capability has always been there, the q is if the ability to do dual 32bit aligned fetches on different addresses was actually implemented. Also why. The amount of times any software would actually do that cant be worth the effort.
@@mycosys you do know that almost no software actually needs a 64-bit wide DATA bus. It was only implemented to allow native processing of 64-bit ADDRESSES. Usually most of the 64-bits of DATA are padding.
a while ago we passed the point where high-end and ultra high-end motherboard became more expensive than the best CPU you can put in it but now we're passing the point where the motherboard cost as much a the 2nd most powerfull GPU on the market...
It's for world record overclocks on Ram, or CPU, I bought one. But I also have LN2 pots, AX1600i's, 3 4090s, and spend virtually all my money on this hobby. Your comment reads as if you can't buy a Nova, Tomahawk, or Hero at the 250$ to 300$ range. Isn't Derbau8er a guy who did Extreme overclocking, and the reason his name popped because he did/does LN2 benches? Ahhh, it's like this one specific motherboard, is for a specific audience. Astonishing findings to be had in my response bud
Somehow PCs have become a status symbol (wtf?) and the ultra top-end boards seem to purely exist for the purpose of excessive consumption signalling. Realistically nobody is buying one of these systems, or a 4090 for that matter, just to play some games
@@EcoAcid Wait 12 months, buy when the next gen is out, save a tonne. Rinse and repeat every 3-5 years. Works for me. Been in IT for too long to give a shit about cutting edge. my 9900k is overclocked to 4.9 stable on air. Still does the job
Didn't the Ryzen 7000 series already do this 2x32 per DIMM from the start, which is why some people were initially confused as they thought it was "quad channel" RAM.!?!?
Dang... I think my Asus W790 Ace was like 1000$. And it has 8 memory slots / 4 channels, with 5 PCIE 16x slots that have 64 gen 5 PCIE lanes wired to them.
Motherboard manufacturers are price gouging and have been for a couple of generations now they will only stop when reviewers stop reviewing them and enthusiasts stop buying them.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you like black so white isn't your taste. But since I'm on the outside looking in at these boards I find black to be incredibly boring and over used because it's on everything. So to me that white & silver board is the most beautiful of the bunch. So good on the board makers for finally offering something different this time around.
What I want to see tested with the Extreme board, if you haven't tested and recorded the upcoming video, is if the board will support XMP profiles while running 4x16 or 4x24 configuration. I know you won't be able to run 4 sticks at 9000, but I really hope to see if it will run them at the maximum JEDEC speed of 6400MT/S. There is plenty 6400MT/S kits on the market that could be used.
6600CL32 2 x 48GB Dominator Titanium kit runs at 6800CL32 with just XMP Tweaked setting on my Z790 Hero with a 14900KS. That's dual rank rather than 4 stick, but the loading will be almost identical.
@@ColinDyckes It may not hold true today, but I remember Steve from GamersNexus a few years back claiming that by running a system in 4x16 vs 2x32 using the same XMP settings will bump up performance about 10%. That's why I am curious if this Z890 Extreme with its 24 power stages could sustain 4 sticks at 6400MT/S speeds.
As far as I know there aren’t many 5gb switches or even sfp+ transceivers that will negotiate 5gb, usually the good ones will do 10/100/1000/2.5/10. So that 5gb will probably only really run at 2.5, unless you change your whole network. Unless it can somehow negotiate at 10gb but then has a throttle to 5gb throughput because of heat or marketing limitation. 1400$ is getting damn close to server/workstation dual socket 8 channel board prices, so double the motherboard basically. Just madness from ASUS and MSI, Asrock will hopefully keep their heads straight and if I had to guess they are probably the ones that figured how to run gear 2 9000. They are the OG tweaker nerds.
I wouldn't spend that much on a company that laughs at your warranty. Asus are delusional, the greed will further harm the industry. I am waiting for camm2 ram for my air cooled build.
I've been looking at X870E boards and just smashing my forehead in my hands. Damn things are almost the same price as the CPU! Or X670E are half price sans USB4. Hell, if I'm going to move to a whole new generation, I just assume go with a preowned TR setup and finally be done with chasing my ass to juggle PCIe lanes. Prior to adopting a 5900x, I've been telling people about one of my old systems that I'd LOVE to recreate with modern hardware. A 5820k with an X99S board; quad channel, 8 DIMM DDR4 and 4 x16 slots. Damn impressive for 2014.
Well, people criticised AMD for targeting the middle range for their graphic card, so motherboard vendor must have though it would be a good idea to target the 10% and 1% of the high end and ultra high end PC. Scary direction indeed, you can make a full decent computer with screen and keyboard for around the price of the top Asus motherboard....
A screen that in a few years will have an image burned in it. Yes, just what consumers want. I want a board with high end features but none of the useless fluff like screens and colorways. It could be green PCB with all exposed SMD components and ugly fin and pin heat sinks on it, as long as it performs and is stable I don't care how ugly it is. In fact ugly can be it's own aesthetic.
They just need to stop connecting top tier stuff with design features. And do all types of mobos with all possible features. Want bare-bone z890? Here it is. Want b860 with rgb and covers? Here! Buy it. Current situation is disgusting.
I think Asus made the Apex white this year is because there is no "Formula" board for intel this time around which usually is their main white offering, there is also no ProArt this time either
Just an observation, it seems the industry is stuck in some sort of spiral loop. Double the price while net performance has really gone nowhere in the last few years, with everything stuck @ 4K or below (have not forgotten the hype of the 1080ti and 4K promises) and fps stuck at either 60 or 30 if you enable all the bells and whistles. Workplace processing may be getting an uplift but those that game are just getting their pockets bled so that companies can make more money. Not trying to sound like a hipster or boomer but I am not "upgrading" anything until my OS become obsolete/unsupported. Apologies for the rant/ratio, love your work.
I think that's partly due to the technology running towards theoretical limits, we're needing radical breakthroughs to make the gains we're used to. I think it's not a bad idea to let a computer age out before upgrading, I'm currently in that same boat with a 6850k so while everybody is complaining about these poor generational uplifts, I can buy pretty much anything and see a 60% geomean FPS increase on games including an overclocked raptor lake i5. It really gives you a lot of flexibility in purchasing because you can buy a previous Gen machine as a significant upgrade for 65% of the original msrp. Another path somebody could take is adopting new sockets when new memory standards come out with middle of the pack components, then refreshing the pc after the socket is no longer supported with top end used parts which are now half msrp and you get to sell your old ones to meet the difference. Both of which makes long term pc ownership much cheaper. If you were crazy though you could own a gaming laptop and a desktop of which you make sure to always have the latest hardware in that you must sell when newer hardware is announced, but before it's released so that there is little to no depreciation In the core components and your case,psu, and cpu fan can all stay and transfer over while you functionally lease the gpu, cpu, ram, & mobo. You would then just lean on the laptop or console in the between months
The prices keep going up while the capability keeps going down. 990FX had 42 PCIE lanes back in 2012 and it didn't cost a fraction of what is being charged now for 20/24 pcie lanes. It's crazy what's happening with prices and its killing enthusiast computing.
I was hoping that we were finally getting decent memory bandwidth in x86 desktops, but apparently it is just a minor implementation detail that you decided to use as clickbait. Good job, you got me.
@@ThunderingRoar it doesn't really help for applications that need memory bandwidth (AI being the most important these days). 4 channels would double the memory bandwidth to 400GB/s. For comparison, Apple has had relatively cheap devices with 4 channels since the M1 Max. To get the same on x86 you need to go with the workstation/server chips, like epyc or sapphire rapids, and pay 5 times as much.
@@diego1694 AI workload is more dependent on the GPU than the x86 CPU . Apple's 400MB/s memory bandwidth is nothing compare to the raw memory bandwidth of high end consumer rangeNvidia GPU that can get over 1TB/sec . And most important is, Apple does not support CUDA , AMD GPU can run CUDA apps through ZLUDA. Whether you like it or not, Nvidia has stranglehold on the AI industry these days because they started much earlier than other players.
I still remember when 1400€ was a good budget for a complete PC tower with reliable components and near-silent cooling. Assembling our own computers at home is basically a luxury nowadays.
you can still very easily build a full good computer for that money, if it's mostly for gaming I think a lot of people overestimate how good of a CPU and motherboard you really need
@@Kyomara1337 soon you wont be able to buy these parts for cheap thanks to amd killing am4 and ryzen 7000, and i suspect intel will also stop producing older processors (at least they might have a reason for that). I have no idea why nobody is talking about what amd is doing but its ridiculous, soon we will need 2000 euro for cheapest pc, which if you dont live in one of the richest countries in the world you just wont be able to buy a pc
@@Kyomara1337 yes, I know it's still possible. Unfortunately where I live hardware is taxed with 23% VAT. I need to be very cautious while choosing components. I enjoy doing my research though and I might order some parts from a neighbouring country where VAT is lower.
Consumers not the manufacturers are to blame. I could have bought a 4090, but went with AMD and a XTX, saving around $800. Closer to $1000 today. My XTX finally replaced my EVGA 1080Ti FTW3.
I'm still on quad channel. I think it really helps with longevity in a system but I guess Intel/AMD doesnt want that really. But going x99 in 2016 has meant I've been able to skip 9 gens and not really notice any difficulties with the work I'm doing in all that time. I'm only upgrading soon due to Windows support.
This is why my next new build will be targeting workstation and server hardware features. Full ECC for sure, though I have not settled on an RDIMM many channel (TR or Xeon) workstation, or a cheaper Epyc 4004 style. I did a solid build in early 2013 and still chugging along .(Though no ECC so it's hard to judge the remaining life of the DIMMs and it started acting like mem errors may have increased.) I am hoping to stretch it one or two more gens maybe Zen6 or whatever intel comes up with when they finish building their new fab. Just to see if they workout some of the many signal integrity issues with v5 of the PCIe and DDR buses.
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp I use Linux, my point was only about long lasting hardware. I am only due for an upgrade to get some new API standards that are required for a specific task that I need to do. Server/workstation hardware tends to have a lot more options in the firmware to cover long term changes in use patterns.
Thing is, you know in the coming months which motherboard you'll see sitting Derbauers table when he makes videos, and it ain't going to be MSI, lol. I haven't upgraded since 12th gen so the 285K is on my shopping list, along with the Hero, and I think I'm going to go for 64Gb memory this time. I can't wait.
10:20 I burst into laughter, more tech TH-camrs need to say this!!! Also more DARN motherboard reviews, what happened to the others doing literally 0 motherboard reviews???
Love the videos and appreciate how much you want what's best for the consumer, not the manufacturers. I wanted to ask a question if you have chance to respond. I have a Corsair iCue Link H170i AIO (420mm rad with 140mm fans) and as of right now, they aren't releasing a bracket offset. If I upgrade, I'd likely go with the 265k (aka, 15700k🤣) and wanted to ask if you think that would be sufficient cooling? If not, would you advise getting a new AIO that does have an offset bracket, or should I be okay with this AIO? Have a good week & I look forward to your review of Arrow Lake next week.
So I take that as a form of protest against those motherboard prices you won't use them and go with an equally as good midrange board for your future content? Or is this just a one time complaint for show and then use the extreme boards anyway?
it depends on the video what I will use. It would be delusional to think that ASUS changes anything in their pricing if I don't use the Extreme or Hero board. I can still highlight my opinion on the price, no?
@@der8auer-en Naturally, use the boards as you see fit, what you have on hand and that best fit the content. My fear is mainly that when these boards get showcased people will also buy them (because you have shown them how to do something on a specific board) which in turn will incentivize Asus to create more of these crazy boards, which in the end benefits noone.
Moving the clock closer to the RAM makes a lot of sense, what do you think the odds of the next standard being clock re-generation on the memory chip itself are?
Bear... bear in mind. Literally *ALL* USB ports are hubs. The stated bandwidth is the maximum that port can pull with *ZERO* other devices using the controller. That's why you can buy USB 10Gb/s cards that have 4 ports which occupy 4x PCE 3.0 lanes. Why would you need that when 1 lane (985MB/s) would do? Because each port has a dedicated controller. That's why the cards are $100+ and normal 10Gb cards are $30. You can't plug two devices into the 3.0 ports on the back of your motherboard and expect both to run at full speed.
Wouldn't the more accurate comparison be the Apex or Hero vs the ACE and hold off the Extreme comparison for when MSI release the Godlike which iirc hasn't been released at launch? It's worth pointing out it looks like the ACE dropped it's support for DP input to the TB4 controller which might sound insignificant but after using it has been a game changer for my setup. However it does look like the ACE added at least one additional USB controller over the 690/790, if not two
Yeah paid 315$ for my Nzxt b650e all white. The max I will pay and that was pushing my integrity. Looked at some Asrock and Asus high end mobos.. nope!
@@LprogressivesANDliberals Asrock is were it is at at the moment both on intel and AMD. best ram support and overall beefy components. Nzxt make pretty boards I really like the aesthetic but build wise they are mid still totally fine though.
black is better at radiating heat. Though this is mute if you have a glass side panel which will just reflect the long wave infrared right back to the board.
@@Ignisan_66 Best to leave the snark to people that actually have the knowledge to back it up. Specifically the difference in the 4th power of the absolute temperature multiplied by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and factoring in the emissivity coefficient. For an ambient 30⁰c and heatsink of 80⁰c, black surface emissivity of 0.9 and white/metal surface averaging 0.3(polished aluminum is about 0.05), the difference is 2.42w per 100cm² (3.63w vs 1.21w), which is plenty to cool the voltage regulator for a 7w Promontory-21 chip (amd 650→870 mobos) and enough to take care of about ⅓ of the cooling of the chip its self. The white mobo, estimating emissivity of 0.3 would need to be 140c to radiate the same power as the black mobo at 80⁰, or alternately the black surface could be 50⁰ and match the white at 80⁰. Similarly the black would be nearly 5.6w per 100cm² at 100⁰c. A high absorption black coating on the inside of a conductive(metal) case panel would maximize this effect. Or simply removing the side panel completely, though this would have strong side effects on the convective cooling flow.
@@macicoinc9363 Literally the cheapest motherboard on AM5 supports 8 USB ports, 4x 2.0 and 4x 3.X. The original run of AM5 motherboards started with 8 and went to 12 on the back. You won't find a PS/2 port... because it's not 1987. But, why are you lying about not having USB ports?
How its not easy to tell if its CUDIMM or UDIMM? the CU ones has literally missing so many pins in the middle and on its sides only a blind man wont be able to tell apart....
As long as they keep manufacturing B650E's i think we're gonna be fine. ASUS does paradoxically have some good value boards on the older chipsets just don't look at anything high end with them.
You do know they make less expensive motherboards right? The ASUS Strix Motherboards are less expensive and manufactured in greater numbers. Such that there are some left at the end of the product cycle - where they get price reductions and have incredible value.
The 5600 -> 6400 boost is a good indicator of how CUDIMM would scale, as it essentially cleans up and boosts the signal. So what you can get will directly correlate to what your motherboard is maxing out with on regular UDIMM. If your board won't run memory stable over 7200, you might achieve 8200 with CKD. 8000 would boost to 9133, and you would need a board already hitting 8400 to achieve 9600. At least that is my best guess.
@13:33 it has dual thunderbolt FIVE , not TB4. Even more expensive MSI godlike has "only" dual TB4. The bandwidth difference betweeb TB 4 and 5 is insane but for 99.9% of userbase probably irrelevant anyway :D
Very few common mainstream PC gamers will be looking even once at motherboards in that high of a price range. Most gamers even somewhat hobbyist PC builder types will still be looking at what is available for a MB with the most sought out features and good connectivity in the $350-$500 U.S.D. range price wise. Same will go for the ddr5 enhanced memory with the onboard chipsets, depending on how the difference affects performance in real world gaming scenarios and what the difference in cost ends up being to utilize the higher performing modules to whether the value and performance uplift are worth the extra expense for the more middle of the road gamers. Everything performance wise ends up with a diminishing return as far as cost to the added performance and there is a level that once cost goes past a certain point only a few will actually pay the added cost regardless.
2 at the minimum which is normal for intel. we won't see DDR6 at the earliest until Q3/4 2026 for consumers and wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed into 2027 and only releasing DDR6 in the server market first.
In the x570 era I got a dark hero for 500€ and it was so insane price wise that a week later I returned it, then I got an Unify-X for 450€ and now they want 800€ for an apex?? Even workstation and server mobos are cheaper wtf
It's meant to symbolize a Halo Product over the Encore which was a cash grab off the Apex board. Ram didn't go nearly as high, and VRM/Mosfets/Capacitor were all knocked way down - Buildzoids reviews of both boards as source.
@@nerdynumen Yeah I dunno why der8auer liked the Encore. I tried searching for his review of the Encore and I can only find him trying to tune some memory on it.
And they wonder why pc sales have slowed down 😂 yeah 1.4k for a motherboard is a throw up in the trash bin you aint getting my money anymore new gens 😂
I prefer the white color theme vs. the encore of last generation. if remembering correctly, z790 apex was white than once 14th gen refresh came, we had encore all black theme.
So 4x8 GB might become the new meta for Intel gaming PCs? As I can imagine this could boost memory bandwidth considerably compared to 2x16 GB using the 4x32 bit memory controller.
You misunderstood, all it does is break up the current 64bit dimm into two 32bit channels, it provides no raw bandwidth improvement over 2x64bit mode but the operations can be interleaved which can slightly reduce latency.
No. It is still externally 2 x 64 bit memory controller, which has internally 2 x (2 x 32 bit) channels. As Roman mentioned on the video, this does not increase memory bandwidth.
When I bought my z97 it was like 130€ and had some commodities (like the 7 segment display) that today you wouldn't even find in a 400€ motherboard 🤦🏻 this industry is fucked man
If this trend continues, motherboard vendors will next get rid of the CPU socket as it's taking too much space they could otherwise use for lighting, displays and fancy extruded aluminium blocks.
Price of new components is insane, my msi "b450 Tomahawk max" cost me 100 euro, now you can only get the cheapest a620 boards for a 100 euro. I run a r5 3600 at @4.2 GHz oc with the stock cooler, zero issues for gaming, though it gets a little hot running cinebench
Nobody talks about the quad channel on 2 sticks, or the cooler offset ---- mobo prices. Definitely insane. Was it the same? Going from PCIE gen 3 to gen 4 - were the mobos that much more expensive? I have a few older mobos on display here. All ATX size, but the components have gotten smaller and the board is full of stuff now. I think it took a whole GPU generation before gen4 made sense in terms of benchmarks, but only in select games and cases.
Gotta love insanely expensive motherboards using blocks of aluminum as VRM heatsinks rather than actual heatpipes and fins. Surface area? Who needs it?!
For general info.: Z890 motherboards start at £225 in the UK. That is expensive but normal for a new chipset. The lower-end prices will come down after 6-12 months.
dude even the X299 motherboards when they were still a relevant high end HEDT platform did not cost 1400 euros.
this is just absolutely insane...
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: we need a new proper HEDT platform.
Not an overpriced mainstream board with loads of RGB and a completely overbuilt VRM that will only be fully utilised by extreme overclockers with liquid nitrogen; like high-end X870E and Z890.
Not an overpriced "server lite" workstation board; like W790, TRX50, or WRX90.
HEDT. 16-32 performance cores (and the ability to clock them to 5.5GHz+!), 32-64 PCIe lanes, 4-6 memory channels (full 64-bit channels, not subchannels). This could have a starting price of about $350, which is roughly 50% more than the cheapest Z890s and about the same as the cheapest X870Es (which are disgustingly overpriced - Z890 has the same or more connectivity, yet motherboards with it often cost much less), while still being good value for people building high-end gaming PCs or midrange workstations.
Still running an 10980xe with the asus encore and not going to upgrade anytime soon with these prices.
@@nathangamble125 "completely overbuilt VRM"
Post this on every video Hardware Unboxed posts where they run a power virus on a CPU and then fail the *completely uncooled* motherboard running an artificial load in an artificial high-temperature scenario if it so much as gets "too hot" (within design specs) or if it "throttles" (typically the CPU throttling itself.)
That kind of utterly-ridiculous "testing" is why you have VRM designed to deliver 700+ watts to a component requiring 140 watts and why motherboards are now shipping with up to THREE EPS connectors.
@@tim3172What are you even on about? HUB doesnt run any power virus, just cinnebench, the mobos are cooled by all the case fans ie real world usage, and even in his latest X870 video he explicitly said that the worst performing mobo (~75C) has completely fine VRM temps. You somehow managed to be wrong on eevry single point you made
@@nathangamble125
And please...NO E-CORES!
Thank you for talking about pricing, i mentioned how out of control pricing was becoming recently which is really contributing to this dying industry at the moment. Consumers can no longer afford the newer hardware especially with how expensive cost of living is, so we seem to be seeing a trend of 2nd hand market being the only option or settling for the lower end gear on offer.
It saddens me because my industry which is primarily water cooling is really dying out, people cannot afford the PC parts and if they can they certainly cannot afford to water cool their parts.
I hate all of the greed involved by companies, it saddens me so much that something i care for can be taken away so easily by greed.
I hope things get better.
I've just ordered a few expensive parts for an AMD build with Ryzen 9 7950X, and would love to do custom loop, but just the parts alone makes considering custom loop too expensive as of now :/ might consider it within 6-9 months, I hope..
It is some greed but it's mostly the cost of fuel thanks to Biden Harris!
Welcome to the real world, people work for the money not for charity
@@lassebrustadits a nightmare lookjng for gpu waterblocks for AMD, with nvidia just get a FE card and FE block and thats nice and short
@@genericscottishchannel1603 I have the RX 7900 XTX which I bought in february/march when it was at it's lowest prices afaik here in Norway, not supporting Ngreedy's prices, at least when AMD is pretty much same price/performance
400-600$ CPU and 800-1400$ MB... something is wrong here xD
fr its almost as expensive as a 4090 which is itself expensive af
There are $1200 AM5 motherboards. You don’t have to buy those.
Don’t buy on day one. Wait a few months and normal priced boards will come out.
It's a world record setting motherboard, being analyzed by a world record setter.
Grab a Tomahawk, or Hero since none of that is for you, easy solution.
Theyre not releasing tiers of chips so much anymore, as the latest fab processes get more expensive and the old processes continue in manufacturing rather than the machines being replaced, it makes no sense to make tiers of chip on one process.
So instead what we get is grossly inflated prices new that just slide downward to discontinuation as they become not worth making, rather than being replaced by a new gen.
Not really new, all of the brands for whatever reason, release the high end, overpriced motherboard (not even OC) from the start. It's fucking stupid.
"1.400 EUR for a motherboard?"
*Wendell laughs and gets his wallet out*
yes you have better OC on CPU and faster ram in expense of timings but how much can you really gain here. in gaming. is this that much better thann than lets say ASUS Prime mobo. also how much is the gain in rendering jobs. IMO those mobo's are just for fun experiments and OC.
"1.400 EUR for a motherboard?"
I can only laugh.
@@zigmarsz.7540i would never in my life buy a Asus motherboard again especially the shitty prime series.
@@xfy123yeah, the Prime series is terrible even with the AMD AM5 platform. Asus is a no go for me.
@@mafcarvalho even the strix boards aren't much better but the prices are hella inflated for them. And Asus shitty support and warranty idk who would buy a 1000$ motherboard from them.
der8auer: Asus what the hell with the pricing ?
Asus: we love money
More like there seem to be enough suckers to spend the money.
Lots of people willingly pay the Asus tax. Asus knows it.
@@rangersmith4652 No different than their Nvidia cards. Their white models have an extra $100 admission fee for purchase compared to the normal black cards. If you want a limited edition anime themed model tack on another $200 if you buy directly from ASUS's website. If it's from a third-party seller then tack on another $500 instead because of their price gouging.
Asus: we love the money we will never get 😆
More like, Asus: We are the APPLE for gamers, so play up or get lost!? 😅😊
1400€ for a motherboard for a desktop gamer platform what a joke. That used to be the entire cost of a high end gaming system not that long ago.
My new answer when friends/family ask me if I can help them put a pc together. "Do you want the whole pc for €1400 or just the motherboard?".
Want to bet it doesn't properly work like the previous top gen versions? I got a ROG ZENITH II EXTREME ALPHA benched and turned off because it to this day is still not stable... Asus refuses support, it must be every other component (not their BIOS that after several updates made it more stable) and it was ~1k 4 years ago...
They need to rename themselves to APOS and learn what testing their on-paper specs means... They dump a very expensive system, give every imaginable excuse and in the end, all components work in other pcs... but let's ignore that it blew up a 3990X... or that suddenly it had multiple BIOS updates when LTT was using the same board in a public build and it very similar issues...
No, trust APOS to put a big price-tag on things and give you crap.
Wait for the tests... wait for the 'AMD has memory issues' comments when in reality it's just APOS not having stable BIOS versions.
@@FreakyAngelusMy B650e-e has microcode issues so I'm definitely not touching an Asus board again. 😅
they are trying desperately to make consoles attractive again
Its Asus mate. They sell their boards as if its some kinda rare pink diamonds. Half of the features on this board is useless to most average consumers.
Ok, but lack of cats elevating anxiety levels brutally
Become one of world's top overclockers
People ask about cat
Linus cat tips being his top channel is real
Even the highest end WRX90 Threadripper workstation boards are half that, offering dramatically more features and capability than that Extreme...
I wonder if older threadrippers wil be better value than new consumer cpus at some point
@@Burbund hard to say, not sure if the pandemic really screwed up yields or something but x399 can be found stupid cheap whereas trx40 and newer still hold their value pretty damn well
not half bro...
@@Burbund2nd hand zen 2 or even zen 3 EPYC chips + motherboards are dirt cheap
asus has lost it with their prices
And warranty 😂😢 most expensive prices least protected by the manufacturer 😂
Along with everything else.....
Typical ASUS Tax. Nothing new here.
And bugs they never fix kinda done with asus having used 4 boards all different cpu generation and models (amd and Intel) and having friends also use them coming to me describing the same problems im done switch to asrock only problem i have run into is internal drives can becone external once at random in windows that you can safely remove then (never done that) i never use remove safely as there is no point to using it in windows
Rock Solid. Heart Touching.
Well...other than the prices, the RMA issues, the microcode and reliability issues....etc...
But definitely Rock SOlid. Heart Touching.
ASUS has seen the price jumps of Nvidia GPUs and wants a piece of the action.
I seriously don't trust asus anymore after the rma fiasco. And a bunch of other stuff. I know they still have a loyal following BUT I think they have lost reputation in a lot of eyes.
@@jessefisher1809They didn’t refuse any RMAs, that was blown way out of proportion…but tweaking BIOSes to burn out CPUs because of high SOC voltage was definitely on them. They have definitely become more focused on form over function which is sad given their history of such great products.
Who the hell is buying all those expensive motherboards for the vendors to keep offering them?
Ikr. I myself have 4 pcs and a pc build with a 4090 but I use a 250$ mobo. Even as a high end user that much for a mobo… nah!
Thank joe bidenflation
@@BrewProof well that proves your level of education. None!
people... just go to r/pcbuilds you will find people buying 500-600 mb because "gaming" motherboards
Only reason I bought an expensive X670E mobo (MSI MEG ACE) was that I needed its PCIe allocation configuration options (20 lanes directly to the PCIe slots, specifically 16 to the primary, 0 to the secondary, and 4 to the tertiary). But unless someone actually needs those sorts of features, there's no reason to buy top end motherboards these days, they all offer very similar feature sets, the differences between which most people won't notice.
Motherboard prices are just going nuts... It was nice to have nice looking mobo back in the day when you could get premium mobo for 300€-400€ but now you can get entry level for almost same price.....
Remember when the motherboard was simply the power and signal distribution network, and its appearance was unimportant? Now it's the star of the show. Windowed cases started this whole aesthetics trend, and it's been fun, but we need to get back to building PCs, not parade floats. That would help a lot in controlling prices.
But I'm pretty sure that train has left the station.
@@rangersmith4652 Literally zero people are stopping you from using a basic TUF or other entry-level board in your build.
Part of this insane motherboard pricing is the new and short lived socket. I bet manufacturers are projecting lower sales numbers and try to recoup production setup costs across lower total number of boards they will sell. Still, $1400 is an overkill!! Take ASUS WRX-90 board for Threadripper, PCIe5, tons of x16 slots, tons of memory slots, tons of 10Gbe and all the bling you want for just $1000, bargain!
💯💯
"new and short[-]lived socket."
Intel has traditionally always replaced the socket every other generation.
This started with Sandy Bridge over a decade ago.
LGA1700 was the odd one out, supporting three generations (12/13/14).
Also... how can you call something both new and short-lived?
Those are diametrically-opposed ideas. You can't have something that's both new and already obsolete or outdated.
It's still actively in production, so... you don't know if it will be "short-lived".
@@tim3172 (It is very generous to call the 14th gen a generation)
I am fairly certain that the "quad channel" support you talk about here was already taken advantage of in LGA 1700 and AM5 systems. It's a core part of the DDR5 spec and not an optional feature. I distinctly remember AMD causing confusion because they claimed that Ryzen 7000 supports quad channel memory on some slides when they were just referring to this feature of DDR5.
I was about to say this, haven't watched the video yet, so will find out. I'm predicting he's going to talk about the 32bit sub channels on DDR5. EDIT: He did.
He said the capability has always been there, the q is if the ability to do dual 32bit aligned fetches on different addresses was actually implemented. Also why. The amount of times any software would actually do that cant be worth the effort.
@@mycosys you do know that almost no software actually needs a 64-bit wide DATA bus. It was only implemented to allow native processing of 64-bit ADDRESSES. Usually most of the 64-bits of DATA are padding.
@@JaenEngineeringisn’t that what he just said?
@@JaenEngineering Now read what i wrote.
a while ago we passed the point where high-end and ultra high-end motherboard became more expensive than the best CPU you can put in it
but now we're passing the point where the motherboard cost as much a the 2nd most powerfull GPU on the market...
When you can build a SICK gaming PC for the price of a single motherboard, you know motherboard prices are fucked..
True, but sadly you don't have good looking motherboards that are not overpriced.
It's for world record overclocks on Ram, or CPU, I bought one. But I also have LN2 pots, AX1600i's, 3 4090s, and spend virtually all my money on this hobby.
Your comment reads as if you can't buy a Nova, Tomahawk, or Hero at the 250$ to 300$ range.
Isn't Derbau8er a guy who did Extreme overclocking, and the reason his name popped because he did/does LN2 benches?
Ahhh, it's like this one specific motherboard, is for a specific audience. Astonishing findings to be had in my response bud
Somehow PCs have become a status symbol (wtf?) and the ultra top-end boards seem to purely exist for the purpose of excessive consumption signalling.
Realistically nobody is buying one of these systems, or a 4090 for that matter, just to play some games
@@EcoAcid Wait 12 months, buy when the next gen is out, save a tonne. Rinse and repeat every 3-5 years. Works for me. Been in IT for too long to give a shit about cutting edge. my 9900k is overclocked to 4.9 stable on air. Still does the job
So, re-timers made it to RAM too.
They have been a thing for a while in servers, but they're mostly used on PCIe.
I paid £258 for my Maximus XI Hero Z390 5 years ago. It's insane how much motherboard prices have rocketed.
2 pounds is one Kilo !..about
Oh wow, 7800X3D (9800X3D) and X670E (X870E) will cost less than that. At least 400 EUR less.
Didn't the Ryzen 7000 series already do this 2x32 per DIMM from the start, which is why some people were initially confused as they thought it was "quad channel" RAM.!?!?
Dang... I think my Asus W790 Ace was like 1000$. And it has 8 memory slots / 4 channels, with 5 PCIE 16x slots that have 64 gen 5 PCIE lanes wired to them.
That's a Motherboard! My Maximus 3 Extreme was 300$ has 2 channels 4 slots ddr3 with 5 pcie gen2 16x slots with 40 lanes NF200 wired to them.
I would love a white motherboard; everything being black makes visibility terrible when working inside the case.
Pricing is obscene.
Motherboard manufacturers are price gouging and have been for a couple of generations now they will only stop when reviewers stop reviewing them and enthusiasts stop buying them.
THIS
it's not happening.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and you like black so white isn't your taste. But since I'm on the outside looking in at these boards I find black to be incredibly boring and over used because it's on everything. So to me that white & silver board is the most beautiful of the bunch. So good on the board makers for finally offering something different this time around.
What I want to see tested with the Extreme board, if you haven't tested and recorded the upcoming video, is if the board will support XMP profiles while running 4x16 or 4x24 configuration. I know you won't be able to run 4 sticks at 9000, but I really hope to see if it will run them at the maximum JEDEC speed of 6400MT/S. There is plenty 6400MT/S kits on the market that could be used.
So any of the extreme board have 4 slots?
6600CL32 2 x 48GB Dominator Titanium kit runs at 6800CL32 with just XMP Tweaked setting on my Z790 Hero with a 14900KS. That's dual rank rather than 4 stick, but the loading will be almost identical.
@@ColinDyckes It may not hold true today, but I remember Steve from GamersNexus a few years back claiming that by running a system in 4x16 vs 2x32 using the same XMP settings will bump up performance about 10%. That's why I am curious if this Z890 Extreme with its 24 power stages could sustain 4 sticks at 6400MT/S speeds.
With the amount of pre-embargo content on this launch, I can't wait for the actual launch. Lovely as ever to watch you go into the details Roman :)
der8auer confirmed goth 9:41
Tech goth.
Looking forward to the reviews, thanks Roman.
Threadripper and sapphire rapids refresh start to make more sense financially…
especially over the long term, for task flexibility and resale depreciation.
I will forever enjoy a bit of price rant in a video by someone competent. thanks for the video :)
Prices are way way too high... Pure madness!
As far as I know there aren’t many 5gb switches or even sfp+ transceivers that will negotiate 5gb, usually the good ones will do 10/100/1000/2.5/10. So that 5gb will probably only really run at 2.5, unless you change your whole network. Unless it can somehow negotiate at 10gb but then has a throttle to 5gb throughput because of heat or marketing limitation. 1400$ is getting damn close to server/workstation dual socket 8 channel board prices, so double the motherboard basically. Just madness from ASUS and MSI, Asrock will hopefully keep their heads straight and if I had to guess they are probably the ones that figured how to run gear 2 9000. They are the OG tweaker nerds.
I wouldn't spend that much on a company that laughs at your warranty. Asus are delusional, the greed will further harm the industry. I am waiting for camm2 ram for my air cooled build.
Thanks for showing us these boards, Roman.
I've been looking at X870E boards and just smashing my forehead in my hands. Damn things are almost the same price as the CPU! Or X670E are half price sans USB4. Hell, if I'm going to move to a whole new generation, I just assume go with a preowned TR setup and finally be done with chasing my ass to juggle PCIe lanes.
Prior to adopting a 5900x, I've been telling people about one of my old systems that I'd LOVE to recreate with modern hardware. A 5820k with an X99S board; quad channel, 8 DIMM DDR4 and 4 x16 slots. Damn impressive for 2014.
Well, people criticised AMD for targeting the middle range for their graphic card, so motherboard vendor must have though it would be a good idea to target the 10% and 1% of the high end and ultra high end PC.
Scary direction indeed, you can make a full decent computer with screen and keyboard for around the price of the top Asus motherboard....
Can't wait for testing! ;-)
A screen that in a few years will have an image burned in it. Yes, just what consumers want. I want a board with high end features but none of the useless fluff like screens and colorways. It could be green PCB with all exposed SMD components and ugly fin and pin heat sinks on it, as long as it performs and is stable I don't care how ugly it is. In fact ugly can be it's own aesthetic.
They just need to stop connecting top tier stuff with design features. And do all types of mobos with all possible features. Want bare-bone z890? Here it is. Want b860 with rgb and covers? Here! Buy it. Current situation is disgusting.
I think Asus made the Apex white this year is because there is no "Formula" board for intel this time around which usually is their main white offering, there is also no ProArt this time either
Just an observation, it seems the industry is stuck in some sort of spiral loop. Double the price while net performance has really gone nowhere in the last few years, with everything stuck @ 4K or below (have not forgotten the hype of the 1080ti and 4K promises) and fps stuck at either 60 or 30 if you enable all the bells and whistles. Workplace processing may be getting an uplift but those that game are just getting their pockets bled so that companies can make more money. Not trying to sound like a hipster or boomer but I am not "upgrading" anything until my OS become obsolete/unsupported. Apologies for the rant/ratio, love your work.
I think that's partly due to the technology running towards theoretical limits, we're needing radical breakthroughs to make the gains we're used to.
I think it's not a bad idea to let a computer age out before upgrading, I'm currently in that same boat with a 6850k so while everybody is complaining about these poor generational uplifts, I can buy pretty much anything and see a 60% geomean FPS increase on games including an overclocked raptor lake i5.
It really gives you a lot of flexibility in purchasing because you can buy a previous Gen machine as a significant upgrade for 65% of the original msrp.
Another path somebody could take is adopting new sockets when new memory standards come out with middle of the pack components, then refreshing the pc after the socket is no longer supported with top end used parts which are now half msrp and you get to sell your old ones to meet the difference. Both of which makes long term pc ownership much cheaper.
If you were crazy though you could own a gaming laptop and a desktop of which you make sure to always have the latest hardware in that you must sell when newer hardware is announced, but before it's released so that there is little to no depreciation In the core components and your case,psu, and cpu fan can all stay and transfer over while you functionally lease the gpu, cpu, ram, & mobo. You would then just lean on the laptop or console in the between months
well there is 12VO and CAMM2 to warrent an upgrade.
The prices keep going up while the capability keeps going down.
990FX had 42 PCIE lanes back in 2012 and it didn't cost a fraction of what is being charged now for 20/24 pcie lanes. It's crazy what's happening with prices and its killing enthusiast computing.
I was hoping that we were finally getting decent memory bandwidth in x86 desktops, but apparently it is just a minor implementation detail that you decided to use as clickbait. Good job, you got me.
Yeah. It's 4 subchannels, not 4 channels.
was DDR 6000-7000 not decent already?
Imagine not already watching each and every one of Der8auer's videos as they come out regardless of title
@@ThunderingRoar it doesn't really help for applications that need memory bandwidth (AI being the most important these days). 4 channels would double the memory bandwidth to 400GB/s. For comparison, Apple has had relatively cheap devices with 4 channels since the M1 Max. To get the same on x86 you need to go with the workstation/server chips, like epyc or sapphire rapids, and pay 5 times as much.
@@diego1694 AI workload is more dependent on the GPU than the x86 CPU . Apple's 400MB/s memory bandwidth is nothing compare to the raw memory bandwidth of high end consumer rangeNvidia GPU that can get over 1TB/sec . And most important is, Apple does not support CUDA , AMD GPU can run CUDA apps through ZLUDA. Whether you like it or not, Nvidia has stranglehold on the AI industry these days because they started much earlier than other players.
Asus z890 Apex has changed ram support on the official page, now it's 9600+ from 9000+
I still remember when 1400€ was a good budget for a complete PC tower with reliable components and near-silent cooling.
Assembling our own computers at home is basically a luxury nowadays.
you can still very easily build a full good computer for that money, if it's mostly for gaming I think a lot of people overestimate how good of a CPU and motherboard you really need
@@Kyomara1337 soon you wont be able to buy these parts for cheap thanks to amd killing am4 and ryzen 7000, and i suspect intel will also stop producing older processors (at least they might have a reason for that). I have no idea why nobody is talking about what amd is doing but its ridiculous, soon we will need 2000 euro for cheapest pc, which if you dont live in one of the richest countries in the world you just wont be able to buy a pc
that can still get you a 7500F + 4070 super with good quality components
7800X3D + X670 + RAM is less than €750. For €1400, can buy a second hand Epyc server board with 9334 (32core Zen4) on it.
@@Kyomara1337 yes, I know it's still possible. Unfortunately where I live hardware is taxed with 23% VAT. I need to be very cautious while choosing components. I enjoy doing my research though and I might order some parts from a neighbouring country where VAT is lower.
Consumers not the manufacturers are to blame. I could have bought a 4090, but went with AMD and a XTX, saving around $800. Closer to $1000 today. My XTX finally replaced my EVGA 1080Ti FTW3.
I'm still on quad channel. I think it really helps with longevity in a system but I guess Intel/AMD doesnt want that really. But going x99 in 2016 has meant I've been able to skip 9 gens and not really notice any difficulties with the work I'm doing in all that time. I'm only upgrading soon due to Windows support.
This is why my next new build will be targeting workstation and server hardware features. Full ECC for sure, though I have not settled on an RDIMM many channel (TR or Xeon) workstation, or a cheaper Epyc 4004 style.
I did a solid build in early 2013 and still chugging along .(Though no ECC so it's hard to judge the remaining life of the DIMMs and it started acting like mem errors may have increased.) I am hoping to stretch it one or two more gens maybe Zen6 or whatever intel comes up with when they finish building their new fab. Just to see if they workout some of the many signal integrity issues with v5 of the PCIe and DDR buses.
Try all the bypass checks in the windows registry via cmd before install. These limitations are artificial as to promote hardware sales.
@@MarcABrown-tt1fp I use Linux, my point was only about long lasting hardware. I am only due for an upgrade to get some new API standards that are required for a specific task that I need to do. Server/workstation hardware tends to have a lot more options in the firmware to cover long term changes in use patterns.
@@mytech6779 Oh thats cool. Not going to lie to you though, what Microsoft is doing is pretty wasteful. Considering linux myself.
@11:04 preach it like how it is!!! these manufacturers are smoking some dope with these pricey! absolutely insane
a white pcb? NOICE
Thing is, you know in the coming months which motherboard you'll see sitting Derbauers table when he makes videos, and it ain't going to be MSI, lol. I haven't upgraded since 12th gen so the 285K is on my shopping list, along with the Hero, and I think I'm going to go for 64Gb memory this time. I can't wait.
If I were you I’d just bought 14th gen cpu. Its your money ofc but for me sounds just like a huge waste.
overclockers love black because of black screens
That explains Gigabyte blue
😂🙏
I really hope they got those clock chips sorted out because they were the biggest limiting factor for overclocking DDR5 RDIMM modules on Xeon
10:20 I burst into laughter, more tech TH-camrs need to say this!!!
Also more DARN motherboard reviews, what happened to the others doing literally 0 motherboard reviews???
10:17 when Der8auer says „Or the Extreme” - he wakes Bixby up on my phone :)
You hacker!
Hey derbauer I love the white apex keep them white ps ASUS IS FUCKING CRAZY WITH THESE PRICES
Love the videos and appreciate how much you want what's best for the consumer, not the manufacturers. I wanted to ask a question if you have chance to respond. I have a Corsair iCue Link H170i AIO (420mm rad with 140mm fans) and as of right now, they aren't releasing a bracket offset. If I upgrade, I'd likely go with the 265k (aka, 15700k🤣) and wanted to ask if you think that would be sufficient cooling? If not, would you advise getting a new AIO that does have an offset bracket, or should I be okay with this AIO?
Have a good week & I look forward to your review of Arrow Lake next week.
So I take that as a form of protest against those motherboard prices you won't use them and go with an equally as good midrange board for your future content? Or is this just a one time complaint for show and then use the extreme boards anyway?
it depends on the video what I will use. It would be delusional to think that ASUS changes anything in their pricing if I don't use the Extreme or Hero board. I can still highlight my opinion on the price, no?
@@der8auer-en Naturally, use the boards as you see fit, what you have on hand and that best fit the content. My fear is mainly that when these boards get showcased people will also buy them (because you have shown them how to do something on a specific board) which in turn will incentivize Asus to create more of these crazy boards, which in the end benefits noone.
@@dotms5195that won’t happen.
Moving the clock closer to the RAM makes a lot of sense, what do you think the odds of the next standard being clock re-generation on the memory chip itself are?
They'd be costlier to produce and inefficient power-wise
@@kingeling why do you feel clock regeneration would be inefficient?
it wil probably happen with CAMM2.
The I/O of the Ace looks good, but bare in mind a lot of those 10G USB ports are via hubs.
divide by 2
Bear... bear in mind.
Literally *ALL* USB ports are hubs. The stated bandwidth is the maximum that port can pull with *ZERO* other devices using the controller.
That's why you can buy USB 10Gb/s cards that have 4 ports which occupy 4x PCE 3.0 lanes. Why would you need that when 1 lane (985MB/s) would do?
Because each port has a dedicated controller. That's why the cards are $100+ and normal 10Gb cards are $30.
You can't plug two devices into the 3.0 ports on the back of your motherboard and expect both to run at full speed.
Wouldn't the more accurate comparison be the Apex or Hero vs the ACE and hold off the Extreme comparison for when MSI release the Godlike which iirc hasn't been released at launch? It's worth pointing out it looks like the ACE dropped it's support for DP input to the TB4 controller which might sound insignificant but after using it has been a game changer for my setup. However it does look like the ACE added at least one additional USB controller over the 690/790, if not two
I'm all in on white motherboards. But it's not like I'm gonna pay more than $250 for one.
Yeah paid 315$ for my Nzxt b650e all white. The max I will pay and that was pushing my integrity. Looked at some Asrock and Asus high end mobos.. nope!
@@LprogressivesANDliberals Asrock is were it is at at the moment both on intel and AMD. best ram support and overall beefy components. Nzxt make pretty boards I really like the aesthetic but build wise they are mid still totally fine though.
black is better at radiating heat. Though this is mute if you have a glass side panel which will just reflect the long wave infrared right back to the board.
@@mytech6779 Radiative cooling is insignificant in a PC. lol. This ain't the space shuttle.
@@Ignisan_66 Best to leave the snark to people that actually have the knowledge to back it up.
Specifically the difference in the 4th power of the absolute temperature multiplied by the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and factoring in the emissivity coefficient.
For an ambient 30⁰c and heatsink of 80⁰c, black surface emissivity of 0.9 and white/metal surface averaging 0.3(polished aluminum is about 0.05), the difference is 2.42w per 100cm² (3.63w vs 1.21w), which is plenty to cool the voltage regulator for a 7w Promontory-21 chip (amd 650→870 mobos) and enough to take care of about ⅓ of the cooling of the chip its self.
The white mobo, estimating emissivity of 0.3 would need to be 140c to radiate the same power as the black mobo at 80⁰, or alternately the black surface could be 50⁰ and match the white at 80⁰. Similarly the black would be nearly 5.6w per 100cm² at 100⁰c.
A high absorption black coating on the inside of a conductive(metal) case panel would maximize this effect.
Or simply removing the side panel completely, though this would have strong side effects on the convective cooling flow.
With those prices why the won't just solder top CPU and RAM on the board?
gdziewojsko
for every CPU an other board, YOU ARE MAD !!
why you cry here ?????
"basically has everything I would ask for" - other than a PS/2 port to run God's Keyboard, the IBM Model M
they sell converters for that
This really pissed me off when I upgraded to AM5. Not only could I not run my Keyboard, but I had to dish out an extra $100 for more than 3 usb ports
@@macicoinc9363 Literally the cheapest motherboard on AM5 supports 8 USB ports, 4x 2.0 and 4x 3.X.
The original run of AM5 motherboards started with 8 and went to 12 on the back.
You won't find a PS/2 port... because it's not 1987. But, why are you lying about not having USB ports?
I like the silver heatsinks on the apex- black pcb with silver heatsinks would look really slick
How its not easy to tell if its CUDIMM or UDIMM? the CU ones has literally missing so many pins in the middle and on its sides only a blind man wont be able to tell apart....
wow how did I miss that :D Thanks!
BS, they have the same count
Great news with RAM, hopefully the benefits are actually confirmed
At 1400€ you can get a good gaming laptop that'll serve you for a long time. Asus is nuts.
why would you waste your money on a gaming laptop? they've always been bad value
No one buying a gaming laptop is THAT concerned about value. If they are, they should rethink their priorities. @@Kyomara1337
For the $6000 the Bang & Olufsen sound system in my car cost, I could have bought four of these.
What's your point?
@@tim3172point is that for 6000$ you could’ve build custom sound system that would’ve been much better
Yeah the prices are insane!
As long as they keep manufacturing B650E's i think we're gonna be fine. ASUS does paradoxically have some good value boards on the older chipsets just don't look at anything high end with them.
B650E is amd, these are z890 and is Intel 😅
I wouldn't put it past ASUS to discontinue B650E so they can force consumers to buy the "new" gen for +100 euros.
You do know they make less expensive motherboards right? The ASUS Strix Motherboards are less expensive and manufactured in greater numbers. Such that there are some left at the end of the product cycle - where they get price reductions and have incredible value.
The 5600 -> 6400 boost is a good indicator of how CUDIMM would scale, as it essentially cleans up and boosts the signal. So what you can get will directly correlate to what your motherboard is maxing out with on regular UDIMM. If your board won't run memory stable over 7200, you might achieve 8200 with CKD. 8000 would boost to 9133, and you would need a board already hitting 8400 to achieve 9600. At least that is my best guess.
Thank you for your best guess
CUDIMM is worth around 800MHz from what I've seen in analysis.
printer go brrr
either this or they make it out of cardboard and tin for 599$, take your pick
I got MSI MAG TOMAHAWK Wi-Fi Z790 motherboard for like 230€. 1400€ for a motherboard is pure robbery.
Seems many forgot the €1000 Kabylake Z270 boards 😂😂
What's up with the black oxide coating on the SMA jack? 12:08
@13:33 it has dual thunderbolt FIVE , not TB4. Even more expensive MSI godlike has "only" dual TB4.
The bandwidth difference betweeb TB 4 and 5 is insane but for 99.9% of userbase probably irrelevant anyway :D
Very few common mainstream PC gamers will be looking even once at motherboards in that high of a price range.
Most gamers even somewhat hobbyist PC builder types will still be looking at what is available for a MB with the most sought out features and good connectivity in the $350-$500 U.S.D. range price wise.
Same will go for the ddr5 enhanced memory with the onboard chipsets, depending on how the difference affects performance in real world gaming scenarios and what the difference in cost ends up being to utilize the higher performing modules to whether the value and performance uplift are worth the extra expense for the more middle of the road gamers.
Everything performance wise ends up with a diminishing return as far as cost to the added performance and there is a level that once cost goes past a certain point only a few will actually pay the added cost regardless.
The only question I have is: is this a one generation only socket?
2 at the minimum which is normal for intel. we won't see DDR6 at the earliest until Q3/4 2026 for consumers and wouldn't be surprised if it gets pushed into 2027 and only releasing DDR6 in the server market first.
Knowing Intel, this and a refresh
@@sirmonkey1985 consider the price of the board it's very appealing tbh...
I've actually been looking for a good white mobo for awhile now. I'm happy to see some finally. But yeah, the prices are insane!
Where’s the cat !
First GPU's and now motherboards, these prices are absolutely batshit crazy. What the hell kind of drugs are they on?
In the x570 era I got a dark hero for 500€ and it was so insane price wise that a week later I returned it, then I got an Unify-X for 450€ and now they want 800€ for an apex??
Even workstation and server mobos are cheaper wtf
Thanks Roman always great video's
Ppl cry about 1000€ motherboards untill the 5090 comes out at 2599€😂
The 5090 has tangible performance per dollar. Not just throwing money at imaginary benefits and white paint
5090 is rumored to be 5000 dollars
You 100% correct in pricing. Way beyound what I can afford. Surely gaming is not driving is absurd pricing.
I like the Apex being white? Also they had the regular Z790 Apex which was white last gen and then the Apex Encore was black.
It's meant to symbolize a Halo Product over the Encore which was a cash grab off the Apex board. Ram didn't go nearly as high, and VRM/Mosfets/Capacitor were all knocked way down - Buildzoids reviews of both boards as source.
@@nerdynumen Yeah I dunno why der8auer liked the Encore. I tried searching for his review of the Encore and I can only find him trying to tune some memory on it.
Chilling here without any worry running 6000 CL30 with my AM5 7000 CPU.
And they wonder why pc sales have slowed down 😂 yeah 1.4k for a motherboard is a throw up in the trash bin you aint getting my money anymore new gens 😂
I prefer the white color theme vs. the encore of last generation. if remembering correctly, z790 apex was white than once 14th gen refresh came, we had encore all black theme.
So 4x8 GB might become the new meta for Intel gaming PCs? As I can imagine this could boost memory bandwidth considerably compared to 2x16 GB using the 4x32 bit memory controller.
You misunderstood, all it does is break up the current 64bit dimm into two 32bit channels, it provides no raw bandwidth improvement over 2x64bit mode but the operations can be interleaved which can slightly reduce latency.
No. It is still externally 2 x 64 bit memory controller, which has internally 2 x (2 x 32 bit) channels. As Roman mentioned on the video, this does not increase memory bandwidth.
When I bought my z97 it was like 130€ and had some commodities (like the 7 segment display) that today you wouldn't even find in a 400€ motherboard 🤦🏻 this industry is fucked man
If this trend continues, motherboard vendors will next get rid of the CPU socket as it's taking too much space they could otherwise use for lighting, displays and fancy extruded aluminium blocks.
Price of new components is insane, my msi "b450 Tomahawk max" cost me 100 euro, now you can only get the cheapest a620 boards for a 100 euro. I run a r5 3600 at @4.2 GHz oc with the stock cooler, zero issues for gaming, though it gets a little hot running cinebench
under 5 mins
me too
Is this the new "first"?
Like, the first we have at home?
@@IIARROWS lol if i don't see it first i write this
Is that the Abados gate address (Stargate) tattooed on your Right arm? Or, is that an Egyptian symbol string?
I soo wish consumer grade system had quad channel memory
I'm very happy that I bought my B650E-I for 260 euros before they run out and the next gen launches at 350 euros.
TZ5CK, I believe C stands for CUDIMM and K for black since G.Skill uses a scheme for its DDR5 references where the color is the suffix.
I paid $979 cad for my Z890 Apex. It costs more than the 285K lol. Cant wait to get it this week
Nobody talks about the quad channel on 2 sticks, or the cooler offset ---- mobo prices. Definitely insane.
Was it the same? Going from PCIE gen 3 to gen 4 - were the mobos that much more expensive?
I have a few older mobos on display here. All ATX size, but the components have gotten smaller and the board is full of stuff now.
I think it took a whole GPU generation before gen4 made sense in terms of benchmarks, but only in select games and cases.
Gotta love insanely expensive motherboards using blocks of aluminum as VRM heatsinks rather than actual heatpipes and fins. Surface area? Who needs it?!
For general info.: Z890 motherboards start at £225 in the UK.
That is expensive but normal for a new chipset.
The lower-end prices will come down after 6-12 months.
ebridgewater
You never need fast memory ?
the CU DIMM version is more fancy
@@lucasrem CUDIMM is currently enthusiast-grade RAM, hence the high price of the motherboards and, presumably, RAM sticks when they are available.