i loved the scene when diane looked in the mirror in her new vietnamese clothes and talked about how she felt like she was wearing a costume and she felt like a tourist. that hit HOME. no one ever talks about what it feels like to be cut off from your heritage like that.
I feel like not only did it represent a heritage cut-off but also that sometimes you feel like you dont belong anywhere; that youre a tourist no matter where you are.
Oh my god! Yes, I feel the same way! I'm half hispanic, but I look completely white. I find it hard to be around my relatives from the hispanic side of my family because I look and act so differently from them. It was so accurate in the show even if it wasn't exactly the same.
V for Verbatim I can relate. Both my parents are Filipinos but I was born in the US. Most of my cousins know Tagalog and I can barely learn a new language. When I went to the Philippines, I felt the same as Diane. Even if my brothers accepted it already, it just gets lonely for me.
Same. Not exactly the costume bit, I wore a lot of cultural clothes as a kid and even now, but visiting Pakistan feels like tourism. Half of my family is there, I recognise the food but can't name all of them, can't speak the language (I'm REALLY bad at learning languages), don't know the culture very well. It's depressing, since I want to connect with it but don't know how
did you also notice how BoJack complains early in the season about a script being too long, that shows are a visual medium and you need more than just a ton of dialogue which followed up with the eulogy episode of all things?
Honestly, the eulogy for me was the best. Despite him pretty much hiding his emotions he opened up one time and you can pretty much feel it in his words. Unfortunately.. he wasn't in the right room and I always wondered what if, all his friends heard him for the first time open up and show his vulnerability.
Even bojack didnt really understand how he felt, because despite hating her, he still wanted to connect. In the end, he realizes now he will never get that chance. in the episode after he continues not wanting to talk about the death of his mother but clearly does, but doesnt know how.
A really bleak thing that no one considers about Free Churro is that because the entire episode is set in the wrong funeral, this means that Bojack actually missed Beatrice's funeral and whatever character growth he had was inconsequential because he made it all to strangers.
I for one think that episode was liberating, he never really got to say those things to his mother for real, and when he tried to do it, she wasn't on her own mind.
@@henrikanchelia64 I agree it was liberating, but was it productive? Whatever personal growth he made is undone by how he refers to his mother's death purely to soothe his ego with sympathy, as well as him rejecting therapy to go back to drinking comfortably
@@matthewsonne4675 it wasn't lost, personally I thought him the musician and one or two hospital staff would be the only ones there. he got a huge weight off his chest
In the therapist episode, The therapist says to Diane live your life like a candle in the wind which is an Elton John song written for princess Diana after she passed away so that last scene of the season is even more suspicious now
Holy shit! I mean it could have been just been a joke in reference to making her Diana in the confidentiality name switch, but the last scene with her going into the tunnel could be referencing princess Diana's car accident also happening in a tunnel. Ofc something like this would happen as soon as there's a glimmer of hope for Bojack attaining a somewhat stable life.
I think the reason Bojack doesn't say "I love you, too." back to Hollyhock is because he doesn't know how yet. For the first time he has family that truly loves him and it could be difficult for him to say it back. Not because he doesn't love her, but because of the abuse he suffered and the anxieties that come with it make it difficult to say something so genuine and kind. But that's just a theory a game theory
I think it's that plus it's a totally new concept for him, so he isn't sure how to respond. I doubt his parents have ever said that they loved him, and now here's someone suddenly saying it to him so casually. It probably made him feel strange for a number of reasons.
I'm going to speak from my own experience for a second and say that I think you hit the nail on the head. My family have a very hard time being openly affectionate with each other and it really degrades your ability to trust people. After getting out of there and being around other people I started to realise that I didn't know how to "do" affection normally. Like Bojack, I would either go full-on and spill all my feelings to them, even if we weren't close enough for it to be appropriate (like with Wanda initially) or I would go stone-cold, both because I wanted to protect myself and because I didn't know how to express that affection at all. Then, when someone like Holly comes along who is relatively well-adjusted and expresses affection appropriately, it's like, well what am I supposed to do? How do I respond without getting it wrong? So you do what you feel comfortable with. Bojack wasn't able to say I love you, but when Holly walked off and waved goodbye he smiled and waved goodbye back, and Holly seemed pleased. That's about as much as Bojack can handle, but it's his first step into practicing healthy relationships.
The fascinating thing about Season 5 is how it kinda challenged the themes of previous seasons. BoJack has done some genuinely, objectively terrible things. Yet, many of us root for him to find happiness and redemption, because if he could get better, so could the rest of us. But Season 5 kinda calls us out for rooting for him. "Really? You're rooting for THIS guy? After all the people he's hurt? After all the people he continues to hurt?" It's enough to make me wonder - not only if BoJack COULD get better but, if he even DESERVES to be better.
I think the show is eschewing the concept of "deserve" in the first place. It's like Stefani was saying to Diane, the point of being better is doing better by both others and yourself; it's not a test. And then what Diane was saying to Bojack about there being no good guys and bad guys, just guys, how he uses being a bad guy as an excuse for his behavior. Honestly, I'd been waiting for the show to get into this for a long time. I didn't think of it like that, exactly, but I think one of Bojack's main problems is that he believes that he's fundamentally flawed and can't do better; he keeps screwing up in part because that's what he expects from himself. When people judge him and treat him like he's a terrible person, like he "deserves," what does that really accomplish? It just reinforces that idea that he's bad, and he just keeps on hurting people. On the other hand, he seems to make real progress when people help him because they care about him. My own value system is based largely on the idea that people have value just for being alive and thinking and having feelings -- that's why it's bad when we hurt each other in the first place. When someone who does something bad hurts, too, it doesn't make anything better, it's just one more person suffering. Like, what Diane was saying with Sarah Lynn? One of the issues I had with what she was saying there is, it's not a contest. Yes, Bojack was also wrong to say that he's the real victim, but... Honestly, I think they were both missing the point. Sarah Lynn's death was just awful all around. I think it's part of the reason Bojack continues to screw up. Not to mention, when someone is hurting, it hurts the people they care about. Say that Bojack got what he "deserves," and he killed himself, or died from an overdose, or... What would that do to his friends? Especially Diane. She's not in a good place, and considering how much of themselves she and Bojack seem to see in each other... I think the show's done a pretty good job of portraying that suffering tends to magnify, in that someone who's miserable will make those around them miserable. Time is a major theme in the series -- it portrays people getting into ruts within their own lifetimes, and also people inherit the mistakes of previous generations. The show is largely about breaking the cycle, and that has to be done on the individual level. Well. "Individual" is the wrong word, since I think it does a good job of showing that you can't do it by yourself, you need help from others with different personalities and ways of thinking. I think Bojack kind of touched on this in Free Churro, when he was talking about how he and his parents all understood each other, but they didn't know how to how to help each other. They were just too similar. That's why... The cycle can't be broken just by starting a new generation, because it's impossible to avoid the parent's issues. Even Princess Carolyn, who turned out much different from her mother, has life-defining baggage there. You know... since this show talks so much about cultural issues, I think another theme is how culture influences people, but how culture is made up of individuals and their relationships to each other. Nothing can change without change on the individual level... So this idea of trying to give someone what they deserve, punishment for the sake of punishment, brings us all down. Accountability and correction are one thing, but when it becomes vitriolic... It gets back to this idea that we should try to help other people for their own sakes as well. ...So that kind of got away from me. I swear, though, Bojack Horseman is Literature with a capital L.
Great review dude. The only thing I'd disagree with is that I don't think Mr Peanutbutter gets tired of his partners when they become more mature, they get tired of him.
Agreed. Each of his wives eventually outgrew him, yes, even Diane. Neither was blameless in the relationship, but Mr. Peanutbutter is more about fun than actual adult life.
"Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change." Those wacky heterosexuals, right? Always with the group conformity.
I don't even agree that his partners get "more mature", I mean, they throw tantrums because he socializes with other people at parties.. That's one of the most childish things someone can do! I think he chooses insecure women, whether they express that through being too controlling, like in the case of his first 2 wives, or by having hang ups about their incomes. Mr. PB keeps insisting on how he wants diane to feel like it is THEIR home, yet he chooses partners whose income brackets are going to make it so that Mr. PB is the main provider and they are long for the ride, mostly in the case of diane and pickles.
There were several moments in this season where I felt they were talking directly to the audience about toxic fanboyism. Those parts where they talked about glorifying crappy behavior and bad people could have just as easily applied to Rick and Morty or Breaking Bad.
Spoilers for the ending of Breaking Bad: Someone, here or in Reddit commented about how awful killing Bojack would be for the end of the show because that would make him look like a martyr and that immediately reminded me of Breaking Bad. Shit.
Yeha like how the Rick and Morty episode about how it's bad that Rick thinks he's too good for therapy and how he's an asshole for not wanting to be a good person just became "PICKLE RIIIIIIICK"
but thats kinda different for breaking bad. So many people root and sympathize for the walter because hes is a sympathetic character. if it were say, someone who inst respectable or someone who most people wouldnt sympathize with even tho theyre doing it for the same reasons walter white was, they wouldn't be getting glorified.
It's actually brilliant that Diane made that conversation into a scene in Philbert, because now the recording has no power. They will just say it was an early take of the scene.
Diane has zero interest in helping bojack out there. she's being petty and shitty like she is and that's a brilliant fix but honestly i think PC would've come up with it to save bojack
@@lordsxman the Emmys and all the other award shows like that they don't care if the show is good or bad they just want a lot of money from behind the scenes to pay for the Emmy
I honestly asked the same question in respect to Tatiana Maslany of Orphan Black. She finally won for the fifth/last season. Hopefully season 5 is the charm for BoJack.
To be honest, Diane is the character that impressed me the most in this season, as much as bojack. I mean, look at her: tries to run away. Cut her hair. Wear super-colored clothes. Cries her heart out. In the last episode we see her naked for quite a long time, considering her character, and she smokes. She doesn't have a family, she doesn't have a friend, she got divorced and can't even control herself anymore with mr. Peanutbutter. People at work won't even listen to her, when she tries to tell something to the world, she needs Bojack to do it, because no one would listen to her. And everything that happened her, just built up from the previous seasons..
Wow that's really true actually, I never considered how alone she was that season. She's always been a cool character to me, regardless of what some people say cough cough ^ that person above my reply
Diane is in a dark place but unlike the other characters she doesn’t really have anyone to drive her to rehab, mayebe Roxie? I think she is headed for a very dark place ala the tunnel
she's been trying to carry the world on her shoulders and as seen with mr peanut butter shes breaking under her own pressure, with no one to catch her. hopefully she won't commit suicide.
7:45 Mr.Peanutbutter problem isn't that HE tires of his women when they become older. Its that THEY are the ones who get tired of him because of his unfocused nature prone to being carried away with these crazy childlike ideas which he puts all his energy into. It's like marrying a magic pixie dream girl because her dreamy childlike wonder makes you rekindle your passion for life only to find yourself to be stuck with a immature partner that can't hold a serious responsability because their carefree nature makes them unreliable. He is simply immature and unfocused which is fun for younger ladies but horrible qhen you want stability and reliablity. The REAL kicker is that Mr.PB shows he is maturing a little. Which makes him worried that might bring conflict with Pickles since she is much like his old self that he seems to be slowling leaving behind. That is the real drama. He is becoming more serious while trying to maintain a relationship based on carefree fun. Tragic.
What's even more tragic is that he cheated on Pickles with Diane, by sleeping with her one night. Diane convinces him to tell her the truth, but she's too nice and innocent (complete with literal puppy eyes) to handle such a horrible truth. Now, Mr. P is trapped in a relationship based on a lie. Poor dog guy, he's my favorite character aside of Todd.
Its gonna be gut wrenching when this marriage comes crashing down I wonder how diane will take it when she finds out those two are getting married.....
The guy has sex with Diane, decides to get back together with her, and after realizing that this is not going to happen and being convinced of telling the truth to Pickles he suddenly decides to hide it from her and ask for her hand in marriage on a whim? She is definitely gonna call him out on it, question if that is what he really wants, to which he is probably going to respond on a really indecisive (but completely sincere) manner, then the two are going two fight and probably end up having sex again...Well, assuming she doesn't die on that tunnel or anything. Mark my words. We will find out if they are correct in about a year from now ;)
I like how the Vietnam episode is an anti-"Stella got her groove back" narrative. In the early 00s I remember that 'Eat, Pray, Love' movie and thinking it was godawful. The way they romanticize a sad white woman with first world problems using the third world as some mystical, fetishized adventure ground for her to find herself in. A lot of movies I suspect are funded by travel companies. So I like that even though Diane is Vietnamese, going to Vietnam doesn't magically fix her or lead to an important epiphany she couldn't have had by say, going to a park in LA. It's like the manic pixie dream girl trope but applied to places instead of characters. Glad they had such a realistic and mature take on that.
Bojack Horseman is the best thing on TV right now and the first thing I think of when I hear the term "cutting-edge comedy". I think this season added an extra meta layer where the show was talking to the audience about itself (cue Flip the megalomaniac writer, comments on glorifying Philbert=Bojack's behaviour, explicitly mentioning the B plot, guy holding "stop pausing and watch the show" sign as an Easter Egg in the PC-centered episode) which complicated things and made all the layers of meaning harder to parse. I 'm not sure I loved this direction, at least not on first watch, but I did love everything else about this season as ever. The eulogy episode stands out as truly memorable and groundbreaking. I've already seen a few reviews of it but one thing I really liked which I didn't see mentioned was the fact that Bojack doesn't say a word while his dad goes on an endless spiteful rant in the cold open flashback, which we can imagine was the case for most of the time that he lived with his parents, and now that they're dead he realizes it's finally his turn to speak.
The cold open was great, I mean, it showed us a very selfish Butterscotch, most parents ask their children how their day was on the way home, but Butterscotch was me, my troubles, my legacy. We knew he was somewhat like this but we never had seen this in all its Glory...
What I thought about this season is that Diane realized how similar she is to BoJack, that's why she acted like that. You're right, Diane could acted differently about the past of BoJack, but she thinks of herself as a moral authority but Diane is as toxic as her friend: she snapped in the worse way when BoJack told her they're the same, she slept with Mr Peanutbutter, knowing it was wrong and left all the weight to Mr. Maybe the last scene resemblance that she's finally going under to that place BoJack wants to leave. (Sorry my english)
@Michael Hewitt-Clarke I don't think hate her is "absolutely" fair. She made a "wake-up" to BoJack, and he needed it to finally take responsibility: he was avoiding his mistakes, the pain (physical and emotional) and not really moving on; but the way and her reasons weren't the best (she just exposed BoJack). She's a very toxic character that isn't taking the responsibility for her acts in the way she ask to BoJack to take responsibility for his own. I really think that the words of BoJack pierced her very deeply, and the scene of the tunnel graphics that: she touched bottom.
I kinda don't understand how people can sympathize with Bojack and hate Diane. I mean, yeah, she's self-righteous, but it's also clear how much she dislikes herself. She often comes across as very childish to me, and... Yeah, in the usual sense, but that's not quite how I mean it. She seems to me like she feels very small, lost, and vulnerable. If the show were making her out to be the good guy in all this, I'd probably hate her, too, but that's not the case. I think one of the main differences between Bojack and Diane, perhaps THE main difference, is that Diane has a more moral mindset and cares more about doing right. Bojack reacts to his own failings with this idea of, it's ok to be selfish and bad, because everyone else is, whereas Diane tries to justify her own actions so she can still think of herself as a good person. Neither of them succeed very well; they both feel like they're bad, broken people, but... In the end, I think they're both just trying to live with themselves.
@@Hakajin I agree and I can't justify BoJack nor even forgive him for his actions. In the season, when he tried to fakes a feminist posture, he seems to understand that, as a viewer you can relate, in a certain level, with a character (mostly, male characters: the narrative fluids because/through him) but you can't normalize the actions out of pity or emphaty, the character has to take responsibility for those actions and face the truth: maybe you are responsible for your own happiness (how is been propose in the show) and living is meaningless (+ all the existentialism); but you still live in society, what it means our bodies are in constant acts of performance, political performance, and above all, WE decided living in society, what means our actions have consequences, and that is realize the existence of the Other. Why I bring this? Maybe because I think that's one of the mayor differences between BoJack and Diane in the beginning of the series: Diane understood that and gave her a moral advantage; BoJack, on the other hand, thinks he doesn't need people, he lives in solitude and despair, avoids responsibility, blah blah. Now, BoJack (finally) wants to take responsibility what it means confront all the terrible things he did and face society, but Diane is going to the other side. I really think that Diane knows she's becoming, in a way, like BoJack: the failures, frustration, loneliness and disappointment are consuming her to the point of not thinking in the consequences of her actions. And, maybe she is projecting in BoJack, because she thinks if he finds redemption, she could find redemption too; if he finds happiness, she'll find it too. I don't know, maybe this "analysis" doesn't make sense at all, I just came with this idea when I read yours. I hope it makes sense.
I see what you're saying. I'm coming at things from a Deterministic point of view, though. That is, every action, thought, and feeling comes out of genes and environment. The other option is that it's all random, but that's not free will. The self cannot be self-determining, because that's circular. I mean, I still believe in free will of a kind, because we kind of are the forces that make us who we are; therefore, to say that we have no free will because they control us is like saying we have no free will because we control us, it makes no sense. Even so, looking at it from that perspective, this idea of personal responsibility based on a self that can act independently is null and void. So, what does this mean in practical terms? You can't equate people to simple physical forces, because we are sentient, we do have feelings. That's what makes our actions matter. We're also too complex and influenced by too many variables to predict our behavior, so, even if we know we live in a deterministic system, that knowledge doesn't do much to change our day-to-day behavior. What it means for me is that I tend to think of things less in terms of things like "deserve" and "justify," and more in terms of "cause and effect." That is, what actions serve the best outcome? Holding someone accountable, helping them become better people, even punishment that corrects or protects, are all good things. But those aren't mutually exclusive to sympathy and forgiveness. Of course, it's hard to change how you feel, too. I have a certain emotional detachment where I tend not to get angry when I hear about the kind of things Bojack does. On the other hand, despite having mostly positive feelings about myself, I have a strong sense of guilt and shame when I screw up, or even when there's just a misunderstanding (though I know myself very well, in the moment, I tend to feel about myself the way I feel like other people feel about me). As a result, I sympathize a lot with those emotions. And that's why it's easy for me to forgive characters like Bojack and Diane. When they keep screwing up, I hate it for them, too.
The strangling scene is based on a real event, by the way. While filming "Der Blaue Engel" ("The Blue Angel") Emil Jannings almost really choked Marlene Dietrich, because he was jealous or her stealing the show or something like that...
Well, imdb and Wikipedia don't say that specifically, but I swear I read it somewhere ;) And what those sources do (!) say definitely doesn't contradict it; it says there that he was jealous of the attention director Josef von Sternberg gave Dietrich (Sternberg and her began a love affair during filming), causing him to throw tantrums on set etc,. mostly (probably) because he felt (and turned out to be right, which makes for a special irony as the film is about the downfall of an older man caused by a young woman) how his career was going downhill while Dietrich's (like Gina's) was just starting. Imdb also says he "once threatened to choke the leading lady" and there is a scene in which his character almost strangles Dietrich's to death, which I imagine went down pretty much like that Bojack scene (except, of course, Jannings was doing it quite conciously, not mistaking himself for the character under drug influence :D )
Can't find the scene on TH-cam if that's what you mean. Maybe just watch the movie? Or are you referring to some kind of outtake / "blooper reel"? I doubt that exists for such an old movie or if so I guess it'll be very hard to come by (?)...
Had trouble finding any info on this. But while looking into it, I found this fascinating article about what's called "The Blue Angel Syndrome" that I think is very relevant to Bojack. “The Blue Angel Syndrome, in which patients exhibit pathological infatuation and behavior that is repetitively self-destructive, as they sacrifice themselves and their own best interests. [...] He speaks of people doing profound wrong, even though they know it is wrong." Sounds like Bojack to me! www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/11/the-blue-angel-syndrome
I think the scene where Diane has bojack talking about what happened in New Mexico was also a way to salvage his career if that tape ever got out, because if it does they can always say it was a scene from the show. She saved his butt while tearing him a new one. At least that's how I saw it
Bojack the Feminist was my favorite episode of the season, for it asked a very uncomfortable question I'm afraid to answer. What are we willing to forgive.
and thats a really good question when we look at like society as a whole. Each of us as individuals determine what were each willing to forgive, but then we have to live in a world with each other where we dont draw the same boundaries and when things like the hank Hippopopalous thing happened and mr. pb's reaction to it, it makes for a lot of division and the people who should get punished by society dont or not effectively enough because of so many differing boundaries. People who should be filtered out to be punished by society slip through the cracks because of the brokenness of not having a universally agreed upon boundary. And this obviously has real world consequences but by extension, thats the consequence of not thinking as a hive mind and having the freedom of individuality and freedom of opinion. Thats the consequence of everyone answering that question differently.
The bojack feminist was definitively one of the most unrealistic interpretations of how we 'forgive' celebrities because we don't. These Twitter tirades are self evident I think these political episodes always miss the mark and end up being one sided and occasionally moronic. That's just how I interpret them though.
@@zecrocodile3374 meaningless year late reply here lmao but while cancel culture is definitely toxic, when it really matters ( think of literal predators like Tony Lopez ), it Donets work- the people still have a platform. Commit a crime, make apology video saying you’ve changed, take a break and then you can hop right back into things
@@zecrocodile3374 okay? Louis CK has sold out shows, movie directors that molest kids still get movies given to them, tons of famous ppl get "cancelled" and then forgiven all the time. You have been completely fooled to think twitter "cancelled" is somehow different.
I feel like you should have touched more on Mister Peanutbutter and Pickles. I think they have an interesting dynamic, and the fact he cheated, and the fact he seemed to be getting tired of her and her mirroring the things he did to his ex’s at the Halloween parties at the show launch, and the fact that instead of telling her he cheated, he proposed. It’s a very interesting subarc that I think should be discussed :)
yeah, mr pb getting to be in the position his ex-wives had been in when they're together with him is interesting. but the fact that he ended up proposing to pickles encapsulated his stagnated maturity, and while that was dreadfully disappointing to see in him, i appreciate that the writers wrote it this way. we're told that alas, after all these partnerships, he's reverting to old ways yet again. i believe it will change come season 6 though.
Also, watch the way diane crushes the cigarette in the end of the show and,in your head, say "goodbye bojack" with her voice. Thats what it is. I dont think shes going to die like princess diana, rather, that tunnel is literally a tunnel of out LA. Theres nothing good left. Bojack amd MrPB are a mess, PC has letdown diane so many times, her job makes a hypocrite. Shes going to run away like bojack did
Or like Whiskers said and did! _“Only after you give up everything can you begin to find a way to be happy”_ I don’t think it means her death but rather her moving away and cutting ties with Bojack and LA in general
The only disappointment I had with this season was the lack of closure for Todd's asexual storyline. It sort of just got hijacked by the sex robot. I was expecting him to meet someone new or realise something about himself. I was half expecting him and PC to have some sort of revelation based on what the therapist said about their relationship being uniquely functional other than the cheese string thing. A functional relationship without a sexual element.
The sex robot was kind of a heavy handed way of presenting Todd grappling with the concept of sex. Its all through a comedic lens but think about how he grows more and more irritated by it the more he tries to put up with it. I'm not asexual myself but I'm sure someone who cant really get the appeal of sex would get frustrated by how prominent sex and sexuality can be. At least, that's how I felt.
Simacan you're right, I'm asexual, and it can be very frustating because sex is a normal thing that almost everyone does and likes and finds normal. Even most relationships are fueled by the notion of sex and that's very hard for an asexual to convey and adapt to.
I think Todd learned and grew a lot in this season. Not only has he almost completely severed his toxic relationship with Bojack, he is focusing on healthier friendships like with PC. Last season he struggled with accepting he was asexual, now that he has accepted it, he is learning what it means to *be* asexual. I felt like his big realization for the season was the fact that you can't date someone else *just* because they're asexual. He got together with that axolotl chick, but found they had different priorities in life. He loves spending time with Emily, but he can't be everything she needs from a boyfriend. So it may seem like two steps forward and one step back, but I hope in the next season Todd learns how to consolidate his sexuality with his affections.
The one thing I noticed about this season that I felt wasn't present in other season is that this season pointed a mirror at the audience and said "These people do bad things, and that's not OK, it's just real." So for everyone that identified with a character they had to take a hard look at themselves instead of vicariously living through the plot and thinking "Ya, but they'll get better right?" Edit: I include myself in this of course. I identify with Mr. Peanutbutter and realizing that I keep younger friends because I've had a hard time growing up hurt, a lot.
I am happy that Season 5 is still going strong with Bojack Horseman and is keeping things intense. I always get scared after a few seasons of something because the creators might get full of themselves. Which makes me so happy they are not falling in this. All these moments where the show knows itself makes this so much more fun to watch. The negative are rather minor and are purely based on personal taste. Episode 6 was probably my favorite episode due to how powerful just every line was. Just seeing Bojack telling how much he hates his mom while still hoping for that one glimmer of love...... Dear god was that just depressing. Honestly I'm happy that I can get excited with this and not be let down after 5 seasons. I'm also happy that this show can make me care for these guys. I never thought I could ever care for a person like Bojack. The absolute biggest Asshole. Whoops.... Kinda was just talking about only Bojack and not this video which really told well about every episode and giving your own feels to every episode. Can't wait for the analyze of the OP because you did point this out that went over my head. So yeah..... I do love your work and wish the best of luck for you.
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. I agree with you I'm really happy BoJack is still going strong, it's so consistently great! Hope ya enjoy my upcoming BoJack vids
When I first watched free churro my phone glitched and it was just a black screen so I thought it was just the perspective from inside a closed casket for like 80% of the episode... Actually worked on some level LOL
It was so, so great! I'm so impressed with how consistently excellent the show has been. I think my gut says that my favorite season is Season 4, but I'm about to do a series rewatch so who knows how I'll feel after that.
The tape that Ana Spanikopita plays for Diane was a recording (accidentally) made by Heather the manatee in episode 301. When Ana said she was "handling it," I wonder how, exactly, she got her hands on that tape? And Heather was never seen again. I think you might have misunderstood Diane when she explained about the age of Mr. Peanutbutter's girlfriends/wives. It's not that HE gets tired of THEM when they become less fun. It's that THEY were young and grew up, and he never does. THEY always leave HIM. Even after he leaves Diane, he hasn't, in his heart, actually let her go. What REALLY hurts between Bojack and Hollyhock is the physical aspect. Over and over, he wants to reach out and make physical contact, but he always stops himself. In the car, he reaches out, and can't let himself touch her. The same thing happened last season, when they were standing by his pool. That little physical bit says so much.
She's most likely just going to be "dead" to the story, as in she won't be a regular in episodes anymore. If that's what it is, I feel like Diane has more or less finished her story, even if its on a bitter note.
I honestly believe season 5 it's just prepping us for season 6 cuz I think itll be its last and final season for the show. I also know that episode 11 he was stupid enough to make an actual phone call to Charlotte when she made good on her word that she will get him if he ever tried to contact her or her family again. I also believe that season 6 will bring back Charlotte and Penny along with the backstory of Bojack sister on how she found her mom. All the episodes for season 5 it's just foreshadowing for season 6. And I truly believe that season 6 will not just be the end of the show but to the end of some of the characters..
@@Jim-so3zm what do you want to see in season 6? For me personally I would like to see how Bojack will react if he ever saw Pennu again. I would like to see Hollyhock in college and how she deals with being related to Bojack. I do fear that the show will turn more into a sitcom then a dark comady. I'm following the story and want to see how it ends.
My reservations with Dianne is that she takes herself to be the "moral authority" However she doesn't hold herself to the responsible for her actions in the same way that she expects Bojack and the world to do the same, hence, She's an extremely toxic character. Her actions and reasoning although right are far from optimal. She couldn't handle when Bojack told her she was just like her, talk about the truth burns...Sadly she doesn't have anybody to take her to rehab or a her place of refuge, and she lowkey gave up her therapist of 7 years. She steadily been spiraling into a sunken place. Over the course of the season she never unpacked her boxes (about 6 months or so). I think her driving into that tunnel at the end could hold many implications. 1. that she's reached rock bottom dwelling into her "dark place" with no uncertainty of where she's going or what's on the other side, 2. It could mean that Diane's figuratively"dead" to the show and she won't have much weight or presence to the future seasons... Man what a show Bojack sheeesh
The fact that you say that she isint be responsible for her actions actually shows up near the end. She says she is a hypocrite for what she does, slandering people online but at the same time being a role model. She knows shes contradicting herself
Diane has never been purposefully harmful to anyone in the show. Bojack litterally burns charity money for fun. I would she is right not to want to be compared to him.
Ya know this didn't even properly process for me. I knew he was having a freak out and probably withdrawal symptoms when he didn't have any more pain pills, but I totally didn't put together that he purposely got in the accident to get more.
@@Johnny2Cellos really? I'm surprised. It was pretty clear to me at the time, since he was desperately licking the bottom of a pill bottle immediately before. He reasoned that if he couldn't get his pain meds another way, he intentionally gets into an accident in order to get ahold of the drugs. Honestly, the whole season I was waiting to see who would drop the fbomb. I thought it was for sure going to be Diane, then briefly worried it would be Hollyhock. I don't know how I feel about them doing the predictable thing and having it be Gina. They handled it well. It was very emotional in a terrible way, and really pressed the whole feminism angle. Since it became a choice between hurting Gina's career simply because the sexist institutes in place would guarantee that she would be remembered as the woman Bojack choked and not the actress. Which is made even worse because the company tanked and Philbert died right after that....I hope Gina is okay. But Gina was also a one off character. So it's both good and bad that she was the one this season. Although, I would love it for all the characters we met this season stay staples in the story. Especially the birth mother of PC'S new baby. I think she's interesting, and there is no reason why PC shouldn't involve her in the baby's life.
I love this show so much but I hate people's reaction to Diane... - Male character does terrible things - Female character calls male character out for doing terrible things - viewers: omg I HATE her!
AGREED. Diane doesn't always do the right thing and does things I disagree with, but seeing so many "I hate Diane" comments has been really disheartening, especially given the things BoJack did this year.
I think it’s less to do with gender, and more to do with the manipulative way in which Diane treated Bojack in the INT. SUB episode. Yeah Bojack is a terrible person (“You shouldn’t like Philbert...”) that’s the point of the show; but what Diane did is not lessened by the actions of other male characters. She forced a tormented alcoholic with a history of bad decision making and trauma to recite a taped conversation describing one of the worst things he’s ever done. Even considering that she didn’t understand what it was properly, she did so out of *spite* and not out of some semblance of wanting Bojack to “be better”. This isn’t about sexism or politics; it’s about a serious dick move made by Diane. Had she directly asked Bojack or confronted him about it properly like she does later in the season there would be no “omg I HATE her!”, it’s the manner in which she did it that matters. Regardless, we’re not meant to normalise theses characters, we’re meant to follow the story and I can’t wait till next season.
i personally love Diane, her character, but she has made some shit, expecting the best always from herself and others damages her and her close ones, and even when she tries to help, she talks like it's not out of pure care about the other, i don't know if bc accepting that makes her feel vulnerable, or actually thinks like that. However, i agree that there's way more hate than i expected, precisely because in the end, SHE IS THE ONE that gets Bojack some help, and stays close, with all her shit and his shit, she wants Bojack get better, to be better. I think most of the hate over her is from people that criticize her actions, even though those people criticize like her, expecting the best and anything else is bad
I personally feel like Diane is like a foil to Bojack. Both do bad things and try to find escapes (Bojack with drugs and sex, Diane with politics), but they differ in how they view themselves. Bojack acknowledges that he's done bad things and doesn't try to defend himself. He knows he's a bad person with little hope of bettering himself. Diane likes to deny that she is the problem, getting mad at or blaming others (like she did with PB in earlier seasons). She has a sense of self righteousness about her, despite everything she's done. She's like bojack with a sense of superiority. This season was good for her, showing her coming to understand that she's like Bojack whether she likes it or not.
@@fraserbrown1511 BoJack has been manipulative too. Sabotaging Todd's space opera, trying to wreck Diane's marriage just to name a few. And he keeps on being forgiven by the audience no matter what. Feels eerily similar to a point recently hammered home. I don't hate BoJack though and I don't love Diane. They're not good guys, but they're not bad guys either. They're just guys that does good sometimes and bad other times. Although BoJack definiately does more bad than Diane so I do feel she got an unfair amount of hate after this season.
This reminds me of the quote Kelsey had when describing Bojack’s behavior on set with Wanda in season 2, “He got famous in his twenties, so he’ll be stuck at that age for the rest of his life.” I think this relates to Mr. Peanutbutter who clearly puts in more forethought to engaging in schemes/projects with Todd than listening to his partner and learning to adapt to her needs/desires. He seems to follow a similar big gesture pattern to try to get his partners to love him back but they get overwhelmed and weirded out by it, and the cycle continues.
I absolutely adored this season of Bojack for all the reasons you listed. It's astonishing that the show can be this poignant and this sharp! Here are my predictions for Season 6: the arc for Season 6 is going to be centered around Bojack's time spent in rehab. He's going to run into a bunch of wacky new characters as he often does and he's going to be incredibly difficult to work with right from the get go because he actively deflects any difficult questions. Mr. Peanut Butter is preparing for his and Pickles' wedding. Diane gets upset with him because he said he would tell Pickles about his affair, but PB would rather keep up his charade that he's a nice and loyal guy who can never do his loved one wrong because he isn't mature enough to deliver or handle hard news. The season ends with Mr. Peanut Butter finally being ratted out (my guess is Diana finally rats him out via girl croosh takedown) and this time he loses his girlfriend without even being married to her yet and now he has to live with being a figure of controversy, which he is not used to because he's used to being the guy everybody likes. this arc of development is set up for the next season. Princess Carolyn is caring for her child which she finds difficult because she's a single mother balancing her home life with her work life. She gets completely overwhelmed and starts putting her child through daycare and is now being pulled in every direction. Ralph Stilton is still in her life and offers to help her take care of the baby by being a stay at home dad, but she's too stubborn to let him back in. She's convinced that she can do it on her own and feels like she has to, maybe as an internal need to prove to her mom that she doesn't need a man in her life to be secure. Maybe this ends in heartbreak. Maybe she slips up and child services takes her adopted child away. I know that's really grim and I'm not saying I WANT it to go that way, but knowing this show it'll probably result in something crazy like that. Todd is up to his usual wacky bullshit. Maybe some kind of sub plot involving his asexuality? idk. Maybe have one episode early season where Hollyhock visits Bojack in rehab. She gives Bojack encouragement to keep going and inspires him to get better, and Bojack shows hope for progress by finally returning Hollyhock's "I love you". Maybe near the finale have Charlotte hunt Bojack down to tare him a new one. Maybe she finds out about the time Bojack called her house pretending to be a cable survey because her husband told her about it and how weird the questions were. Maybe she watches Philbert and finds out about the Submarine bit, and she thinks Bojack used his personal story to influence the script. Worse over she sees his speech at the premiere talking about how flawed characters in TV shows show the world it's okay and normal to be as flawed as they are and she thinks that's him excusing himself for what he did. She finds him just as he comes out of rehab, hopeful for the first time in his life, and really lets him have it. Maybe she says "You think this makes up for all the shit you did?! You think because you're finding help that means everything is going to be better now?!" And she basically undoes all the healing Bojack did. Maybe have the season end on a high note like pretty well every season has. Maybe what Bojack did to Penny has finally been made public knowledge. But maybe . . in a surprise twist . . . Penny makes a public statement saying she forgives him. Maybe she demonstrates once and for all that some scars CAN heal . . . and she takes it upon herself to be stronger than the pain caused to her. And maybe that restores hope for Bojack. I know I'm speculating a lot and I wrote out an essay basically, but I LOVE speculating about where a series is going.
Season 4 killed Diane for me and somehow this season brought her back and killed her again. I understand that BoJack played a role in Sarah Lynn's death but this whole season is about accountability. Sarah Lynn was 31, only sobered up to get higher when she continued drugs and it was her idea to do heroin. BoJack told her it was a bad idea until SHE convinced HIM to do it. And Diane had no right calling out BoJack like that and reminding him of something that's deeply hurt him
There's absolutely blame to be placed on Sarah Lynn, but also remember that she was completely sober when BoJack came around her place to go on that massive binge/bender. Again, I don't think Diane did the right thing calling him out like that, but I don't think she "had no right" to talk to him about it.
+Jessy Weeks But she was clean. Bojack enabled her. Diane should bring it up. We've seen that PC won't do anything to stop the problem she'll only try to fix it afterwards. Who else is close enough to bojack to reprimand him? MPB is not close enough. Todd is gone PC downplays serious problems/ fixes it after. Beatrice and Butterscotch are dead. Hollyhock has trauma and got pushed away. Diane was that last line of conscious. And now she's gone. Bojack going to have to face Bojack now. I wonder if this show will end with him getting arrested.
But diane wants Bojack to be accountable, just as you said. He wasnt being accountable at all, in his head he cant change and its not his fault hes shitty, he just is. Diane was calling bojack out on his bullshit dude. It IS your fault, you are the one doing these shitty things. Just like Todd said last season. I even think she wasnt hard enough, bojack is SUCH shitfuck. Love him tho, I mean I want him to get better and I hope rehab will help. Diane and PC were the best this season
I dont see why people say season 4 killed Diane for them because I saw it coming from a mile away. I recently rewatched the series and it was more apparent. They just didn't work together. Diane doesnt know what she wants, doesnt know how to be happy and PB kept trying to make her happy, buying her things, without thinking to much because he never had any experience what she was going through. Also I'm pretty sure she also tired some of his zany antics . Now season 5 DEFINITELY killed Diane for me, I was kinda hoping that at least she could understand and some point get him help but she only lashed out at him and made him spiral worse.
The final shot of every season before this was showing Bojack at a point of change (that he wouldn't follow through on). In this one we focus on Diane watch Bojack enter rehab (without looking back to see her wave), stomp out a cigarette, then take a deep breath before driving off. Then before she drives into the tunnel, the sun comes out from behind the clouds with an effect that looks oddly similar to the "light from heaven" Bojack saw in the episode before. Add in the princess Diana comparisons and I'm extremely terrified for how next season will play out
Here's the thing about Bojack wanting to come clean to the world though. In my eyes it's just another one of his grand gestures to make up for the shitty things he's done, which he admits he constantly does in the eulogy. The real growth in his character I think comes from his ending, because even though yes, going to rehab is also a grand gesture, it's different because he absolutely has to commit to it and make a change, and also because he's truly doing it for himself, as he realizes that this time there is no winning back the people he drove away with his terrible actions by doing something good. And I'm glad the season ended that way, because if Diane did post the takedown like he asked, he'd either spend the rest of his life doing nothing but feeling shitty about himself, or rationalizing his bad behavior and blaming it on others, in both scenarios unable to get another acting job or really go out in public at all and connect with others ever again.
Seeing PC try to downplay the events and seeing how naive Bojack was, really reminded me of that scene with Bojack’s mom where he comforts her by telling them they’re in Michigan or something but there were great callbacks to other moments of the show.
If Diane dies, that’s it for me. The show is way too depressing as it stands now, and one of the few glimmers is the friendship between Bojack and Diane. Without that, it’s just a bunch of sad characters doing shitty things. Cool review, by the way. You really seem to love Princess Carolyn. I personally think she’s biting off more than she can chew with the baby.
Bojack trying to strangle Gina truly broke my heart. The truth is that we DO wanna believe he'll be better. He has the potential to being a good person but he just can't get his shit together
Haven't anyone noticed Bojack is really on his own for the very first time, he has no girlfriend (Gina), no best buddy (Todd hasn't even talked to him other than as the executive of WTIIN.com?), even Princess Carolyn, she's moved on a new stage in her life...and the stuff with Diane... She's not his friend, after the premiere incident i'd check twice before to trust her anything, she just drove him to the Rehabilitation Center to get rid of him and get some space for herself.
He's been mostly alone for a couple seasons now. By the end of Season 3 he had alienated everyone in his life, and that's when Todd left his house too. In Season 4 if it weren't for Hollyhock, Beatrice and Tina moving in he would have been completely alone, and by the end of the season they were all gone again. Then this season he was alone, then started seeing Gina and had a good thing going, and then blew that monumentally. This is really illustrated well in the opening sequences, I've got videos dissecting those too if you wanna check 'em out! I really hope BoJack learns to let people back into his life and keep them there.
I don't think he is alone because there is still one person who never gave up on him. Mr.Peanutbutter. I mean since Mr.Peanutbutter is feeling guilty about something he did that he is not proud of and well Mr. Peanutbutter is genuinely the closest thing to a hero the series has. I mean he is the only one who ran in to stop Bojack from strangling Gina. He even saved Bojack's life in an earlier episode. He is the one person who forgives Bojack and hears everyone out. He has only snapped at Bojack once and other than that brief rivalry they had he has been a genuinely good friend and seems to believe that even a person like Bojack can change. That one time where Mr. Peanutbutter is hosting a show and looks like he is going to chew out Bojack he does the unexpected and genuinely forgives him even after Bojack made a move on his then wife Diane.
Did anyone else pick up on the way that they used Philbert? Playing philbert is bojack just basically playing himself, and the whole season, he try’s to deny that they are the same, intel the 11th episode when he and the audience can’t tell him and philbert apart. This is what led him to having the pill addiction, he had to relive his mistakes and really look at himself, and the pain was to much for him. That’s what the balloon represents, it’s him trying not to look at himself, the self philbert represents. That is why this whole season we see him try and try to fix himself, so he can truly get better. But he fails and then try’s to hide behind his addiction, intel the end of the show where he actually does the right thing.
Maybe the next season will be him in rehab and then also what's going on the outside and then maybe a couple episodes in he gets out and trys to be better but the influences and cravings come back and e fucks up.... Again.
In episode 1, Princess Caroline tells Bojack that at the end of the shoot, that takes off the custome, but at the end of the season he takes the character with him to the real life. (forgive my bad English)
Thanks! So glad you enjoy them :) Hope ya dig this review. I'll have my Intro analysis out tomorrow AM! And probably some more BoJack vids over the next week or two
One of my favorite scenes in the show involves the sex robot when Todd is getting interviewed about it. Todd: Mr. Fondle is a sex robot, and should not be the CEO of any company. Interviewer: you're speaking metaphorically, right? Todd: ...No...
Diane’s behaviour in that scene when she blows up on Bojack about all the shit he’s done because she acts very entitled and like she’s so morally superior. I think she’s just projecting her own guilt unto him. But I’m glad she was still there for Bojack in the end.
For some reason I wasn't as excited for this season as I was for previous seasons, maybe because my mind is in a better place. However, despite starting off somewhat slow for me the season went left real quick. I was not disappointed. Always love the uniquely framed episodes and glad to see the writers are willing to experiment and really push the boundaries. I think that's what makes this show so amazing. I think my favorite episode was the Halloween party, mostly because it lead up to the point of Todd staying at BoJack's. I'll have to rewatch it to really take it in.
I feel like the tunnel scene was a metaphor for the death of the old Diane which is why she's portrayed as princess Diana, as season 6 she changes in order to help her own mental health and move forward with her life
Bojack's biggest problem is that he hasn't forgiven himself, don't get me wrong he has a lot a LOT of other issues to deal with, but he always talks of himself as a toxic person and even has accepted that his crap of a childhood is not an excuse, i think that yeah he knows he's bad and is trying to change for the better but that deep down he doesn't think he deserves redemption or happiness
One thing, I really liked the one with the Halloween parties. But, I couldn't shake the ageist implication that middle aged women are shrews and nags and only younger women are fun at parties. Diane thinks that about herself and she's wrong. But Mr. Peanutbutter's behavior is the real issue. He's so committed to positive thinking he runs away from anything negative. Instead of working on his relationships, he would rather jump to a new one. That's depressing to see. It was so painful to me to see him propose to Pickles when he was clearly intending to break up with her, but lacked the heart to follow through. That weakness, inability to deliver bad news, is something he can't have a great relationship until he grows out of. I think he'll see that he's gotten more mature over time as well as his ex-wives did. Maybe it's just a dog thing.
Rachael Lefler ugh! That’s gonna backfire so badly next season. I really want to know why he is the way he is in that he simply cannot allow himself to be negative even if it’s for the greater good. It’s gotta be a really good reason. Smh. Another doomed marriage. Hopefully Pickles will say no.
this is a concisely written perspective on the faults of mr peanutbutter's blind optimism or escapist tendencies and how they affect his relationships :) i was sure the writers were setting mr pb up for some breakthrough until he went down on one knee.. it was such a disappointing moment! he does need to learn to deliver "bad news".
How to forgive BoJack? Remember how Herb couldn't forgive BoJack, but still lived his life? Maybe that's how the series will end. BoJack can't fix everything he's done with a big gesture. The series could end with us, and BoJack's victims, not forgiving BoJack, but still living happy lives. That would also fit with us saying goodbye to the series, goodbye to BoJack Horseman.
Mr Peanutbutter didn't get tired of his women. They got tired of him. The only one he was unfaithful with, which was WILDLY out of character for him, was Pickles Aplenty.
I think that Bojack being willing to go to rehab and better himself is enough to redeem him for the strangling scene. Finally, he is going to try and get better as a person. I'm really excited for season 6.
Excellent recap review! I personally love season 5. Great writing for tying back stories together. I guess you could say that Bojack turned into Vince Wagonner from episode 4. And they framed Vince to be unforgivable. Oof. Tough time for Bojack...
Hey, I saw all your reviews, and I felt that they were as good as the show. Now, every time I feel like watching Bojack, I am going to watch the reviews.
Um it was NOT princess caroyln's fault for Bojack's accident on set. That was completely his own fault but he blames her for that. She did not "neglect" her job she took personal days which should have been perfectly acceptable.
She did neglect her job. She missed out on calls from bojack and the writer dude although bojack was responsible it was still PC's job to ensure her employees don't do stupid harmful shit.
I loved this season so much. The best thing about it is that it had way more character driven drama than before. You learn more about how the characters do what they do and that is something I always wanted to see more of in the show. But because of this choice, not a lot of story actually happens but I'm happy with what we got. I really enjoyed the season and I hope the next one comes soon
That episode with the serious drug trip. Jesus, that was dark. I mean, I know Bojack has done some bad things but assault? That's just . . . wow. But at least he's going to rehab. It's more than I can say for Rick from Rick and Morty. Yeah, I don't like Rick and Morty to this god tier level people put it at. It's funny but Rick just refuses to grow as a person and seems to ignore the fact that actions have consequences. It's why I like Bojack Horseman more, I mean he is still a pretty horrible person but at least he's trying to be better.
The Hollyhock episode hurt me right in the feels man seeing her want to just spend time with Bojack and the events that follow are just heartbreaking . Man I just want to rebinge the whole season again after this review awesome job man .
I will always miss Vincent Adultman and I hope he shows back up at some point haha. I think we can assume Hollyhock has some sort of relationship with Henrietta now, I do hope we see it in the future
I personally get pissed about Dianne coming at Bojack about what he did in the past as hard as she did. I do understand where its coming from after Bojack went on stage saying that "Philbert Teaches us its okay to be bad". Considering all of what he did. I mean her coming at him as hard as she did, reminded him that being bad isn't okay. However, staying trapped in the past in which you cannot change isn't okay either. Dianne doesn't understand that Bojack does need to move on, but in a healthy way. He needs to change and forget the things that happened that cant be changed. He should focus on what can be changed now. Use the past and its guilt as motivation to be better. His guilt will lighten up in the end if he's making an effort to change. The way he angrily refers to himself in 3rd person shows how much he hates himself. He doesn't attach himself with his own identity by simply saying me or I. Dianne leaving Bojack hurt him badly. Bojack hurt her in saying that she taught Bojack its okay to be bad through the memoir she wrote about Bojack. Also, Bojack loves Dianne or loves what she provides for him emotionally. In the Therapy episode he mimics her by seeing a therapist. Dianne leaving, means Bojack lost something meaningful to him. Love and emotional stability. And yes... Bojack is the Victim. Victim of past guilt. Everyone moved on, and hes still stuck with that he did.
i think this guilt thing is precisely the crux of todd's confrontation with bojack in season 4 and diane's this season-- the 2 major fissures between bojack and the friend closest to him at that point in time. the point is that the massive, burdensome guilt which bojack carries cannot be the be-all and end-all of his attempts at correcting past wrongs. he has to make himself accountable for making the effort to go beyond that, meaning he has to stop making use of his emotional baggage and history with abuse (as both victim and perpetrator) to excuse his behaviour. that will never happen unless he realises that that point will merely be the baseline if he manages to reach it, and he will have to constantly hold himself to some standard; and without expecting deliberate praise or acknowledgement (not that it will be unearned) for this is basic decency. his argument with diane shows us that mentally he has not even reached that point, despite what seems like progress, on the outside, to us. he has not broken away from narcissistic rationalisation of the consequences of his actions, whether in history or present. yes, he is a victim alright, of his upbringing, but by centering this aspect of himself so stubbornly within his relationships with other people, we see that in turn he appears dismissive of how HE victimises those closest to him. he HAS to move past the guilty phase already in order to genuinely shoulder responsibility for the damage he has caused so many people. in todd's words "you cannot keep doing shitty things and apologising for them as if it makes everything okay." in diane's words "(bojack: i am asking to be held accountable) it's not going to happen. whatever you put in that story, no one is gonna 'hold you accountable'. you need to take responsibility for yourself." to clarify though, i do think what diane did on set was horrible. venting her frustration and dissatisfaction with bojack by exploiting her knowledge of that audio recording (essentially her presumptions about the incomplete picture she has of "a girl" and bojack, and without clarifying it with bojack himself) and using it against him in this way, without him knowing what's to come.
so for some reason youtube is convinced that I have a baby and I get nonstop diaper ads, and one of the, I think it's for loves, has the person who voices ana spanakopita and it messes with me every time.
Are you... me? You look similar to myself in my 20's I was confused for a second there lol, anyway, this season was incredibly solid. I don't think anything could reach the mindfuckery of last season, especially for the fact that you can rewatch season 4 immediately after your first viewing and you get a completely different narrative. That was Godtier writing and story telling. This season felt more inline with the other seasons, which is basically some of the best entertainment ... ever. The eulogy episode was fantastic though I think it lost a bit of its... OMG factor because there's a series called Horus and Pete where Laurie Metcalf does essentially the exact same thing with the structure of the monologue. Still absolutely A++++, but I feel like had I not seen something like that recently, I'd have flipped my shit about how amazingly unique it was.
Great review! This is an awesome show, one of my favorites, and often brilliant, especially after season 1. The "Free Churros" episode is now among my most favorite tv show episodes ever, was just so authentic, honest feeling, if also tear jerking. I missed the possible foreshadowing about Diane's future, but I hope it's wrong. I really like her character, despite her flaws, but I like so many characters on this show. Bojack himself has done some pretty horrible things already, and the choking will be hard to forgive, can't say I like his character at this point, but it's hard not to root for him to improve, and hopefully do something to make up for his actions. It's funny, and impressive that a strange cartoon comedy/drama about Hollywood people with so many animal headed characters can feel more real and authentic than most live action shows I've seen.
Diane is pretty much the only character to not successfully introspect and face her flaws or the fact that her destructive nature negatively affects the people in her life. The deepest she goes is "my life sucks, I'm broken". If it wasn't for her spiteful behavior, I believe that BoJack would have had a more positive and good year, and if she dies while the people she hurt still believe that she's blameless and good, that would be unfortunate. Good story-telling, maybe, to see how they react to it, but Diane, more than anybody else, needs redemption through some actual introspection, apologies, and attempts at showing any empathy, if the writers don't actually believe that she was in the right and justified in the way she treats people.
OMG thank you! I've so many poor Diane posts. She's just as bad as Bojack was in n previous seasons. She's the most toxic character in the show because she always thinks she's right.
I don't really see that; PB is only starting to realize something might even be wrong with him and the last scene he was in season 5 was him proposing to pickles instead of acting like a mature adult(the guy is is in his late forties to early fifties). Carolyn didn't address her problems. She just adopted s baby after having been basiclly the way she is now is going have it the baby won't have a childhood it deserves-and she doesn't seem to have planned to change her ways either.
Without Diane Bojack is still Bojack. He is miserable because of how he is-because what he chooses to do, take Diane out of the picture he's no worse than before he met her.
She has hurt him. He has also hurt her. Neither party as been totally kind to each other, there are times where they are mean even cruel to one another. But they both do far more damage to themselves than to each other. Seriously, before Diane Bojack was objectively no worse off than he was after all the years they've had a relationship. Bojack is miserable because of Bojack's actions-no one is forcing to do any of the bad stuff he routinely does. Seriously, no one forces the liquor he consumes down his throat. No one forces him to break the law. No one forces himself and others in danger when he goes on a bender=Bojack is responsible for Bojack's misery
I think Bojack trying to get Diana to publish an expose on him calls back to then Todd confronted Bojack: You can't keep doing terrible things and expect everything to be okay because you feel bad about it.
True but considering what she knew is hard not to see how BoJack did himself no favor. He refuse to talk about it for so long and after he almost kill his co star you have to be very naive to take his word for at face value.
I think the show runners wanted to show Bojack being the good guy in the fight. He's the one actually growing as a person and handling the situation as an adult. Diane is supposed to realize she isn't so different from Bojack next season. She is intentionally portrayed as more unlikeable.
Sass disagree. I feel like the creators mostly just portray the events in all their complexity and leave it for the viewer to decide. So much of it is subjective, like how for instance I disagree with the idea that Bojack is meant to be viewed as the good guy. I feel like the point is we were supposed to question whether he's even the good guy this season. I love how much it varies from person to person though
How awful of Diane to force a guy to relive that moment when he almost slept with his best friend's daughter. Really a terrible woman. Bojack attempt to get better were : trying to drink less. He then became an addict that put his younger sister in danger. And choke his girlfriend. Why is given a pass on that ?
Amazing video, just wanna point out that for me one of the most heart breaking part was after they did the show that got bojack off the hook for the strangling video. The show still got cancelled
mac demarco and mac miller are two different people
WOW I am the dumbest person
@@Johnny2Cellos at least you notice also mac demarco is fuego
Lol when he said that I got very confused and scared tht mac demarco passed away
I'm sorry! I'm a monster!
i had a heart attack i thought demarco died omg
i loved the scene when diane looked in the mirror in her new vietnamese clothes and talked about how she felt like she was wearing a costume and she felt like a tourist. that hit HOME. no one ever talks about what it feels like to be cut off from your heritage like that.
I feel like not only did it represent a heritage cut-off but also that sometimes you feel like you dont belong anywhere; that youre a tourist no matter where you are.
Oh my god! Yes, I feel the same way! I'm half hispanic, but I look completely white. I find it hard to be around my relatives from the hispanic side of my family because I look and act so differently from them. It was so accurate in the show even if it wasn't exactly the same.
V for Verbatim I can relate. Both my parents are Filipinos but I was born in the US. Most of my cousins know Tagalog and I can barely learn a new language. When I went to the Philippines, I felt the same as Diane. Even if my brothers accepted it already, it just gets lonely for me.
Same. Not exactly the costume bit, I wore a lot of cultural clothes as a kid and even now, but visiting Pakistan feels like tourism. Half of my family is there, I recognise the food but can't name all of them, can't speak the language (I'm REALLY bad at learning languages), don't know the culture very well. It's depressing, since I want to connect with it but don't know how
@@v4verbatim white hispanics who feel disconnected from their culture gang 🤜🤛
I can't believe I missed the "choking women is wrong" thing, holy shit.
Orange-Juice omg I forgot about that other scene
Orange-Juice In The Squawk’s audience, the ‘Old Hens’ in The Squawk is a play on older women who watch shows like The View
It tends to happen when we watch all the episodes in a row.
Wow I forgot about that, jesus
Cruel irony my friend...
did you also notice how BoJack complains early in the season about a script being too long, that shows are a visual medium and you need more than just a ton of dialogue which followed up with the eulogy episode of all things?
*this was a sensational season of television*
Matthew Masucci and it wasn’t even on television!
Honestly, the eulogy for me was the best. Despite him pretty much hiding his emotions he opened up one time and you can pretty much feel it in his words. Unfortunately.. he wasn't in the right room and I always wondered what if, all his friends heard him for the first time open up and show his vulnerability.
Free Churro was the best episode. Replayed it over and over again.
The first line in this ep is "Yes, yes, I see you." That's what his dad said to him.
Yeah, it was a great episode. Funny, deep, and emotionally strong. I do wish it was in the right room tough. Other than that it was perfect.
The thing is, nobody would probably actually be at the funeral besides everyone bojack already knows, and they all know how he feels already
Even bojack didnt really understand how he felt, because despite hating her, he still wanted to connect. In the end, he realizes now he will never get that chance. in the episode after he continues not wanting to talk about the death of his mother but clearly does, but doesnt know how.
A really bleak thing that no one considers about Free Churro is that because the entire episode is set in the wrong funeral, this means that Bojack actually missed Beatrice's funeral and whatever character growth he had was inconsequential because he made it all to strangers.
I for one think that episode was liberating, he never really got to say those things to his mother for real, and when he tried to do it, she wasn't on her own mind.
@@henrikanchelia64 I agree it was liberating, but was it productive? Whatever personal growth he made is undone by how he refers to his mother's death purely to soothe his ego with sympathy, as well as him rejecting therapy to go back to drinking comfortably
I think it was commentary how eulogy are not for the dead but for our selves to cope with lost.
@@matthewsonne4675 it wasn't lost, personally I thought him the musician and one or two hospital staff would be the only ones there. he got a huge weight off his chest
FYI; Jack-In-The-Box is giving away free Churro's.. for real. You don't even have to say your mom died.
In the therapist episode, The therapist says to Diane live your life like a candle in the wind which is an Elton John song written for princess Diana after she passed away so that last scene of the season is even more suspicious now
Oh shiiiiiiit, this is a GREAT catch. Thanks for commenting!
Holy shit! I mean it could have been just been a joke in reference to making her Diana in the confidentiality name switch, but the last scene with her going into the tunnel could be referencing princess Diana's car accident also happening in a tunnel. Ofc something like this would happen as soon as there's a glimmer of hope for Bojack attaining a somewhat stable life.
I really hope this is not true because it would kill me
@@ColdheartDunther you, me, BoJack, Mr Peanut butter, PC and Todd would all be very sad
LOL stable. Get it? because he's a horse and horses live in stables. Do you get it? Please tell me you get it.
I think the reason Bojack doesn't say "I love you, too." back to Hollyhock is because he doesn't know how yet. For the first time he has family that truly loves him and it could be difficult for him to say it back. Not because he doesn't love her, but because of the abuse he suffered and the anxieties that come with it make it difficult to say something so genuine and kind. But that's just a theory a game theory
I agree!
I think it's that plus it's a totally new concept for him, so he isn't sure how to respond. I doubt his parents have ever said that they loved him, and now here's someone suddenly saying it to him so casually.
It probably made him feel strange for a number of reasons.
I'm going to speak from my own experience for a second and say that I think you hit the nail on the head. My family have a very hard time being openly affectionate with each other and it really degrades your ability to trust people. After getting out of there and being around other people I started to realise that I didn't know how to "do" affection normally. Like Bojack, I would either go full-on and spill all my feelings to them, even if we weren't close enough for it to be appropriate (like with Wanda initially) or I would go stone-cold, both because I wanted to protect myself and because I didn't know how to express that affection at all.
Then, when someone like Holly comes along who is relatively well-adjusted and expresses affection appropriately, it's like, well what am I supposed to do? How do I respond without getting it wrong? So you do what you feel comfortable with. Bojack wasn't able to say I love you, but when Holly walked off and waved goodbye he smiled and waved goodbye back, and Holly seemed pleased. That's about as much as Bojack can handle, but it's his first step into practicing healthy relationships.
Very well put.
The only people I remember him saying “I love you” to are Princess Carolyn and Sarah Lynn.
The fascinating thing about Season 5 is how it kinda challenged the themes of previous seasons. BoJack has done some genuinely, objectively terrible things. Yet, many of us root for him to find happiness and redemption, because if he could get better, so could the rest of us. But Season 5 kinda calls us out for rooting for him. "Really? You're rooting for THIS guy? After all the people he's hurt? After all the people he continues to hurt?" It's enough to make me wonder - not only if BoJack COULD get better but, if he even DESERVES to be better.
I love this comment, great analysis.
I think the show is eschewing the concept of "deserve" in the first place. It's like Stefani was saying to Diane, the point of being better is doing better by both others and yourself; it's not a test. And then what Diane was saying to Bojack about there being no good guys and bad guys, just guys, how he uses being a bad guy as an excuse for his behavior. Honestly, I'd been waiting for the show to get into this for a long time. I didn't think of it like that, exactly, but I think one of Bojack's main problems is that he believes that he's fundamentally flawed and can't do better; he keeps screwing up in part because that's what he expects from himself. When people judge him and treat him like he's a terrible person, like he "deserves," what does that really accomplish? It just reinforces that idea that he's bad, and he just keeps on hurting people. On the other hand, he seems to make real progress when people help him because they care about him.
My own value system is based largely on the idea that people have value just for being alive and thinking and having feelings -- that's why it's bad when we hurt each other in the first place. When someone who does something bad hurts, too, it doesn't make anything better, it's just one more person suffering. Like, what Diane was saying with Sarah Lynn? One of the issues I had with what she was saying there is, it's not a contest. Yes, Bojack was also wrong to say that he's the real victim, but... Honestly, I think they were both missing the point. Sarah Lynn's death was just awful all around. I think it's part of the reason Bojack continues to screw up. Not to mention, when someone is hurting, it hurts the people they care about. Say that Bojack got what he "deserves," and he killed himself, or died from an overdose, or... What would that do to his friends? Especially Diane. She's not in a good place, and considering how much of themselves she and Bojack seem to see in each other...
I think the show's done a pretty good job of portraying that suffering tends to magnify, in that someone who's miserable will make those around them miserable. Time is a major theme in the series -- it portrays people getting into ruts within their own lifetimes, and also people inherit the mistakes of previous generations. The show is largely about breaking the cycle, and that has to be done on the individual level. Well. "Individual" is the wrong word, since I think it does a good job of showing that you can't do it by yourself, you need help from others with different personalities and ways of thinking. I think Bojack kind of touched on this in Free Churro, when he was talking about how he and his parents all understood each other, but they didn't know how to how to help each other. They were just too similar. That's why... The cycle can't be broken just by starting a new generation, because it's impossible to avoid the parent's issues. Even Princess Carolyn, who turned out much different from her mother, has life-defining baggage there.
You know... since this show talks so much about cultural issues, I think another theme is how culture influences people, but how culture is made up of individuals and their relationships to each other. Nothing can change without change on the individual level... So this idea of trying to give someone what they deserve, punishment for the sake of punishment, brings us all down. Accountability and correction are one thing, but when it becomes vitriolic... It gets back to this idea that we should try to help other people for their own sakes as well.
...So that kind of got away from me. I swear, though, Bojack Horseman is Literature with a capital L.
it's called repeating what creators said in interview lol
@@Hakajin of course Bojack thinks of himself as the bad guy and flawed, think about what Beatrice told him in episode 13
really insight fully
You forgot about
The seasonal F-bomb said by Gina after she was choked
Oh, fish!
@@Yoseqlo1 I've grown attached to saying this. Princess Carolyn is one of my favorite characters of the show, of any show actually.
"What the fuck is wrong with you?!"
Oh god... it's hard to watch and it's disturbing.
@@Yoseqlo1 Oh, fuck!
Great review dude.
The only thing I'd disagree with is that I don't think Mr Peanutbutter gets tired of his partners when they become more mature, they get tired of him.
Agreed. Each of his wives eventually outgrew him, yes, even Diane. Neither was blameless in the relationship, but Mr. Peanutbutter is more about fun than actual adult life.
"Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change. "
@@dangerguy32 so true
"Men marry women with the hope they will never change. Women marry men with the hope they will change."
Those wacky heterosexuals, right? Always with the group conformity.
I don't even agree that his partners get "more mature", I mean, they throw tantrums because he socializes with other people at parties.. That's one of the most childish things someone can do! I think he chooses insecure women, whether they express that through being too controlling, like in the case of his first 2 wives, or by having hang ups about their incomes. Mr. PB keeps insisting on how he wants diane to feel like it is THEIR home, yet he chooses partners whose income brackets are going to make it so that Mr. PB is the main provider and they are long for the ride, mostly in the case of diane and pickles.
There were several moments in this season where I felt they were talking directly to the audience about toxic fanboyism. Those parts where they talked about glorifying crappy behavior and bad people could have just as easily applied to Rick and Morty or Breaking Bad.
Spoilers for the ending of Breaking Bad:
Someone, here or in Reddit commented about how awful killing Bojack would be for the end of the show because that would make him look like a martyr and that immediately reminded me of Breaking Bad. Shit.
Yeha like how the Rick and Morty episode about how it's bad that Rick thinks he's too good for therapy and how he's an asshole for not wanting to be a good person just became "PICKLE RIIIIIIICK"
@@Sweetlovewhit91 Yeah, nobody is taking the emmys seriously anyway
but thats kinda different for breaking bad. So many people root and sympathize for the walter because hes is a sympathetic character. if it were say, someone who inst respectable or someone who most people wouldnt sympathize with even tho theyre doing it for the same reasons walter white was, they wouldn't be getting glorified.
It's actually brilliant that Diane made that conversation into a scene in Philbert, because now the recording has no power. They will just say it was an early take of the scene.
Dagnie woah didn’t think like that
Dude holy shit woah
That's brilliant
Jesus, brilliant shit right there.
Diane has zero interest in helping bojack out there. she's being petty and shitty like she is and that's a brilliant fix but honestly i think PC would've come up with it to save bojack
Someone explain to me why BoJack has NO Emmys. This show is BRILLIANT!!
This is truly the greatest question of all
I know Right?!?!?!
@@lordsxman the Emmys and all the other award shows like that they don't care if the show is good or bad they just want a lot of money from behind the scenes to pay for the Emmy
I honestly asked the same question in respect to Tatiana Maslany of Orphan Black. She finally won for the fifth/last season. Hopefully season 5 is the charm for BoJack.
It's animation. And as everyone knows, animation doesn't win awards.
To be honest, Diane is the character that impressed me the most in this season, as much as bojack.
I mean, look at her: tries to run away. Cut her hair. Wear super-colored clothes. Cries her heart out. In the last episode we see her naked for quite a long time, considering her character, and she smokes. She doesn't have a family, she doesn't have a friend, she got divorced and can't even control herself anymore with mr. Peanutbutter. People at work won't even listen to her, when she tries to tell something to the world, she needs Bojack to do it, because no one would listen to her.
And everything that happened her, just built up from the previous seasons..
She suck in season 5. Come on Netflix...
Wow that's really true actually, I never considered how alone she was that season. She's always been a cool character to me, regardless of what some people say cough cough ^ that person above my reply
Diane is in a dark place but unlike the other characters she doesn’t really have anyone to drive her to rehab, mayebe Roxie? I think she is headed for a very dark place ala the tunnel
Sardonicus I wish she had too! they didn’t make a big deal of it but she lost her therapist of like 8 years his season too.
she's been trying to carry the world on her shoulders and as seen with mr peanut butter shes breaking under her own pressure, with no one to catch her. hopefully she won't commit suicide.
@@evilovesperry I really hope not. She is my favourite, but this season was really tough to her
@@fele09 i just feel like i'm in the same boat as her. and while trying to ignore it I know how it ends
Enlightened Perry What weight was she carrying? She's the cause of all the shit she's going through.
They made a "you have to be really smart to understand Philbert" joke
is that a rick and morty joke or something?
Zeynep Engin ye
It's confusing and daring, which means it must be a good show!
To be honest you need a pretty high iq to understand the humor of Philbert
7:45 Mr.Peanutbutter problem isn't that HE tires of his women when they become older. Its that THEY are the ones who get tired of him because of his unfocused nature prone to being carried away with these crazy childlike ideas which he puts all his energy into.
It's like marrying a magic pixie dream girl because her dreamy childlike wonder makes you rekindle your passion for life only to find yourself to be stuck with a immature partner that can't hold a serious responsability because their carefree nature makes them unreliable.
He is simply immature and unfocused which is fun for younger ladies but horrible qhen you want stability and reliablity.
The REAL kicker is that Mr.PB shows he is maturing a little. Which makes him worried that might bring conflict with Pickles since she is much like his old self that he seems to be slowling leaving behind.
That is the real drama. He is becoming more serious while trying to maintain a relationship based on carefree fun. Tragic.
What's even more tragic is that he cheated on Pickles with Diane, by sleeping with her one night. Diane convinces him to tell her the truth, but she's too nice and innocent (complete with literal puppy eyes) to handle such a horrible truth. Now, Mr. P is trapped in a relationship based on a lie. Poor dog guy, he's my favorite character aside of Todd.
Yeah. He is my favorite too. :(
Its gonna be gut wrenching when this marriage comes crashing down I wonder how diane will take it when she finds out those two are getting married.....
The guy has sex with Diane, decides to get back together with her, and after realizing that this is not going to happen and being convinced of telling the truth to Pickles he suddenly decides to hide it from her and ask for her hand in marriage on a whim? She is definitely gonna call him out on it, question if that is what he really wants, to which he is probably going to respond on a really indecisive (but completely sincere) manner, then the two are going two fight and probably end up having sex again...Well, assuming she doesn't die on that tunnel or anything. Mark my words. We will find out if they are correct in about a year from now ;)
So true
I like how the Vietnam episode is an anti-"Stella got her groove back" narrative. In the early 00s I remember that 'Eat, Pray, Love' movie and thinking it was godawful. The way they romanticize a sad white woman with first world problems using the third world as some mystical, fetishized adventure ground for her to find herself in. A lot of movies I suspect are funded by travel companies. So I like that even though Diane is Vietnamese, going to Vietnam doesn't magically fix her or lead to an important epiphany she couldn't have had by say, going to a park in LA. It's like the manic pixie dream girl trope but applied to places instead of characters. Glad they had such a realistic and mature take on that.
I agree with this so hardcore. I was thinking the same thing but you put it into words so much better
I hope with the child, PC re-hires Juda to help out with her duties again. I loved him.
Me too his voice was super calming
Fuck yes, broke heart when she fired him
Juda's the best!
@@themanchilddjplayer1598 I would kill for a "help-going-to-sleep" podcast narrated by his voice actor!
She did!
Bojack Horseman is the best thing on TV right now and the first thing I think of when I hear the term "cutting-edge comedy".
I think this season added an extra meta layer where the show was talking to the audience about itself (cue Flip the megalomaniac writer, comments on glorifying Philbert=Bojack's behaviour, explicitly mentioning the B plot, guy holding "stop pausing and watch the show" sign as an Easter Egg in the PC-centered episode) which complicated things and made all the layers of meaning harder to parse. I 'm not sure I loved this direction, at least not on first watch, but I did love everything else about this season as ever.
The eulogy episode stands out as truly memorable and groundbreaking. I've already seen a few reviews of it but one thing I really liked which I didn't see mentioned was the fact that Bojack doesn't say a word while his dad goes on an endless spiteful rant in the cold open flashback, which we can imagine was the case for most of the time that he lived with his parents, and now that they're dead he realizes it's finally his turn to speak.
The cold open was great, I mean, it showed us a very selfish Butterscotch, most parents ask their children how their day was on the way home, but Butterscotch was me, my troubles, my legacy. We knew he was somewhat like this but we never had seen this in all its Glory...
What I thought about this season is that Diane realized how similar she is to BoJack, that's why she acted like that. You're right, Diane could acted differently about the past of BoJack, but she thinks of herself as a moral authority but Diane is as toxic as her friend: she snapped in the worse way when BoJack told her they're the same, she slept with Mr Peanutbutter, knowing it was wrong and left all the weight to Mr. Maybe the last scene resemblance that she's finally going under to that place BoJack wants to leave.
(Sorry my english)
@Michael Hewitt-Clarke I don't think hate her is "absolutely" fair. She made a "wake-up" to BoJack, and he needed it to finally take responsibility: he was avoiding his mistakes, the pain (physical and emotional) and not really moving on; but the way and her reasons weren't the best (she just exposed BoJack). She's a very toxic character that isn't taking the responsibility for her acts in the way she ask to BoJack to take responsibility for his own. I really think that the words of BoJack pierced her very deeply, and the scene of the tunnel graphics that: she touched bottom.
@@MissLolaRaven excellent analysis
I kinda don't understand how people can sympathize with Bojack and hate Diane. I mean, yeah, she's self-righteous, but it's also clear how much she dislikes herself. She often comes across as very childish to me, and... Yeah, in the usual sense, but that's not quite how I mean it. She seems to me like she feels very small, lost, and vulnerable. If the show were making her out to be the good guy in all this, I'd probably hate her, too, but that's not the case. I think one of the main differences between Bojack and Diane, perhaps THE main difference, is that Diane has a more moral mindset and cares more about doing right. Bojack reacts to his own failings with this idea of, it's ok to be selfish and bad, because everyone else is, whereas Diane tries to justify her own actions so she can still think of herself as a good person. Neither of them succeed very well; they both feel like they're bad, broken people, but... In the end, I think they're both just trying to live with themselves.
@@Hakajin I agree and I can't justify BoJack nor even forgive him for his actions. In the season, when he tried to fakes a feminist posture, he seems to understand that, as a viewer you can relate, in a certain level, with a character (mostly, male characters: the narrative fluids because/through him) but you can't normalize the actions out of pity or emphaty, the character has to take responsibility for those actions and face the truth: maybe you are responsible for your own happiness (how is been propose in the show) and living is meaningless (+ all the existentialism); but you still live in society, what it means our bodies are in constant acts of performance, political performance, and above all, WE decided living in society, what means our actions have consequences, and that is realize the existence of the Other. Why I bring this? Maybe because I think that's one of the mayor differences between BoJack and Diane in the beginning of the series: Diane understood that and gave her a moral advantage; BoJack, on the other hand, thinks he doesn't need people, he lives in solitude and despair, avoids responsibility, blah blah. Now, BoJack (finally) wants to take responsibility what it means confront all the terrible things he did and face society, but Diane is going to the other side. I really think that Diane knows she's becoming, in a way, like BoJack: the failures, frustration, loneliness and disappointment are consuming her to the point of not thinking in the consequences of her actions. And, maybe she is projecting in BoJack, because she thinks if he finds redemption, she could find redemption too; if he finds happiness, she'll find it too.
I don't know, maybe this "analysis" doesn't make sense at all, I just came with this idea when I read yours. I hope it makes sense.
I see what you're saying. I'm coming at things from a Deterministic point of view, though. That is, every action, thought, and feeling comes out of genes and environment. The other option is that it's all random, but that's not free will. The self cannot be self-determining, because that's circular. I mean, I still believe in free will of a kind, because we kind of are the forces that make us who we are; therefore, to say that we have no free will because they control us is like saying we have no free will because we control us, it makes no sense. Even so, looking at it from that perspective, this idea of personal responsibility based on a self that can act independently is null and void.
So, what does this mean in practical terms? You can't equate people to simple physical forces, because we are sentient, we do have feelings. That's what makes our actions matter. We're also too complex and influenced by too many variables to predict our behavior, so, even if we know we live in a deterministic system, that knowledge doesn't do much to change our day-to-day behavior. What it means for me is that I tend to think of things less in terms of things like "deserve" and "justify," and more in terms of "cause and effect." That is, what actions serve the best outcome? Holding someone accountable, helping them become better people, even punishment that corrects or protects, are all good things. But those aren't mutually exclusive to sympathy and forgiveness.
Of course, it's hard to change how you feel, too. I have a certain emotional detachment where I tend not to get angry when I hear about the kind of things Bojack does. On the other hand, despite having mostly positive feelings about myself, I have a strong sense of guilt and shame when I screw up, or even when there's just a misunderstanding (though I know myself very well, in the moment, I tend to feel about myself the way I feel like other people feel about me). As a result, I sympathize a lot with those emotions. And that's why it's easy for me to forgive characters like Bojack and Diane. When they keep screwing up, I hate it for them, too.
The strangling scene is based on a real event, by the way. While filming "Der Blaue Engel" ("The Blue Angel") Emil Jannings almost really choked Marlene Dietrich, because he was jealous or her stealing the show or something like that...
Wow, that's insane! Thanks for posting this, I had no idea.
Well, imdb and Wikipedia don't say that specifically, but I swear I read it somewhere ;) And what those sources do (!) say definitely doesn't contradict it; it says there that he was jealous of the attention director Josef von Sternberg gave Dietrich (Sternberg and her began a love affair during filming), causing him to throw tantrums on set etc,. mostly (probably) because he felt (and turned out to be right, which makes for a special irony as the film is about the downfall of an older man caused by a young woman) how his career was going downhill while Dietrich's (like Gina's) was just starting. Imdb also says he "once threatened to choke the leading lady" and there is a scene in which his character almost strangles Dietrich's to death, which I imagine went down pretty much like that Bojack scene (except, of course, Jannings was doing it quite conciously, not mistaking himself for the character under drug influence :D )
Is there video?
Can't find the scene on TH-cam if that's what you mean. Maybe just watch the movie? Or are you referring to some kind of outtake / "blooper reel"? I doubt that exists for such an old movie or if so I guess it'll be very hard to come by (?)...
Had trouble finding any info on this. But while looking into it, I found this fascinating article about what's called "The Blue Angel Syndrome" that I think is very relevant to Bojack.
“The Blue Angel Syndrome, in which patients exhibit pathological infatuation and behavior that is repetitively self-destructive, as they sacrifice themselves and their own best interests. [...] He speaks of people doing profound wrong, even though they know it is wrong."
Sounds like Bojack to me!
www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2016/11/the-blue-angel-syndrome
I think the scene where Diane has bojack talking about what happened in New Mexico was also a way to salvage his career if that tape ever got out, because if it does they can always say it was a scene from the show. She saved his butt while tearing him a new one. At least that's how I saw it
Wow that's a great pick up
That's what I was thinking too! I was hoping someone would point it out
Bojack the Feminist was my favorite episode of the season, for it asked a very uncomfortable question I'm afraid to answer. What are we willing to forgive.
and thats a really good question when we look at like society as a whole. Each of us as individuals determine what were each willing to forgive, but then we have to live in a world with each other where we dont draw the same boundaries and when things like the hank Hippopopalous thing happened and mr. pb's reaction to it, it makes for a lot of division and the people who should get punished by society dont or not effectively enough because of so many differing boundaries. People who should be filtered out to be punished by society slip through the cracks because of the brokenness of not having a universally agreed upon boundary. And this obviously has real world consequences but by extension, thats the consequence of not thinking as a hive mind and having the freedom of individuality and freedom of opinion. Thats the consequence of everyone answering that question differently.
The bojack feminist was definitively one of the most unrealistic interpretations of how we 'forgive' celebrities because we don't. These Twitter tirades are self evident
I think these political episodes always miss the mark and end up being one sided and occasionally moronic. That's just how I interpret them though.
"The Showstopper" is my favorite episode of the season, guess how dark and messed up this episode is, and the ending of left me speechless.
@@zecrocodile3374 meaningless year late reply here lmao but while cancel culture is definitely toxic, when it really matters ( think of literal predators like Tony Lopez ), it Donets work- the people still have a platform. Commit a crime, make apology video saying you’ve changed, take a break and then you can hop right back into things
@@zecrocodile3374 okay? Louis CK has sold out shows, movie directors that molest kids still get movies given to them, tons of famous ppl get "cancelled" and then forgiven all the time. You have been completely fooled to think twitter "cancelled" is somehow different.
I feel like you should have touched more on Mister Peanutbutter and Pickles. I think they have an interesting dynamic, and the fact he cheated, and the fact he seemed to be getting tired of her and her mirroring the things he did to his ex’s at the Halloween parties at the show launch, and the fact that instead of telling her he cheated, he proposed. It’s a very interesting subarc that I think should be discussed :)
You're right I did not focus on Mr. PB nearly enough in this review! There was a lot to talk about but I neglected that storyline
Johnny 2 Cellos perhaps a follow up video delving into it? I would be very interested in hearing your thoughts!
yeah, mr pb getting to be in the position his ex-wives had been in when they're together with him is interesting. but the fact that he ended up proposing to pickles encapsulated his stagnated maturity, and while that was dreadfully disappointing to see in him, i appreciate that the writers wrote it this way. we're told that alas, after all these partnerships, he's reverting to old ways yet again. i believe it will change come season 6 though.
@@Johnny2Cellos I hate Pickles!
Also, watch the way diane crushes the cigarette in the end of the show and,in your head, say "goodbye bojack" with her voice. Thats what it is. I dont think shes going to die like princess diana, rather, that tunnel is literally a tunnel of out LA. Theres nothing good left. Bojack amd MrPB are a mess, PC has letdown diane so many times, her job makes a hypocrite. Shes going to run away like bojack did
Or like Whiskers said and did! _“Only after you give up everything can you begin to find a way to be happy”_ I don’t think it means her death but rather her moving away and cutting ties with Bojack and LA in general
you nailed it
like fa real. i want more of diane and guy.
You were right she went to Chicago
@@Thrna_1 She did the right thing to leave LA because Los Angeles is a tar pit.
The only disappointment I had with this season was the lack of closure for Todd's asexual storyline. It sort of just got hijacked by the sex robot. I was expecting him to meet someone new or realise something about himself. I was half expecting him and PC to have some sort of revelation based on what the therapist said about their relationship being uniquely functional other than the cheese string thing. A functional relationship without a sexual element.
The sex robot was kind of a heavy handed way of presenting Todd grappling with the concept of sex. Its all through a comedic lens but think about how he grows more and more irritated by it the more he tries to put up with it.
I'm not asexual myself but I'm sure someone who cant really get the appeal of sex would get frustrated by how prominent sex and sexuality can be. At least, that's how I felt.
You read my mind.
Simacan you're right, I'm asexual, and it can be very frustating because sex is a normal thing that almost everyone does and likes and finds normal. Even most relationships are fueled by the notion of sex and that's very hard for an asexual to convey and adapt to.
I think Todd learned and grew a lot in this season. Not only has he almost completely severed his toxic relationship with Bojack, he is focusing on healthier friendships like with PC. Last season he struggled with accepting he was asexual, now that he has accepted it, he is learning what it means to *be* asexual.
I felt like his big realization for the season was the fact that you can't date someone else *just* because they're asexual.
He got together with that axolotl chick, but found they had different priorities in life. He loves spending time with Emily, but he can't be everything she needs from a boyfriend. So it may seem like two steps forward and one step back, but I hope in the next season Todd learns how to consolidate his sexuality with his affections.
i hope they pick up on emily and todd next season and give them some proper development
The one thing I noticed about this season that I felt wasn't present in other season is that this season pointed a mirror at the audience and said "These people do bad things, and that's not OK, it's just real." So for everyone that identified with a character they had to take a hard look at themselves instead of vicariously living through the plot and thinking "Ya, but they'll get better right?"
Edit: I include myself in this of course. I identify with Mr. Peanutbutter and realizing that I keep younger friends because I've had a hard time growing up hurt, a lot.
I am happy that Season 5 is still going strong with Bojack Horseman and is keeping things intense. I always get scared after a few seasons of something because the creators might get full of themselves. Which makes me so happy they are not falling in this. All these moments where the show knows itself makes this so much more fun to watch. The negative are rather minor and are purely based on personal taste. Episode 6 was probably my favorite episode due to how powerful just every line was. Just seeing Bojack telling how much he hates his mom while still hoping for that one glimmer of love...... Dear god was that just depressing.
Honestly I'm happy that I can get excited with this and not be let down after 5 seasons. I'm also happy that this show can make me care for these guys. I never thought I could ever care for a person like Bojack. The absolute biggest Asshole.
Whoops.... Kinda was just talking about only Bojack and not this video which really told well about every episode and giving your own feels to every episode. Can't wait for the analyze of the OP because you did point this out that went over my head. So yeah..... I do love your work and wish the best of luck for you.
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words. I agree with you I'm really happy BoJack is still going strong, it's so consistently great! Hope ya enjoy my upcoming BoJack vids
When I first watched free churro my phone glitched and it was just a black screen so I thought it was just the perspective from inside a closed casket for like 80% of the episode... Actually worked on some level LOL
HAHA that is actually incredible
@@Johnny2Cellos Fall and pray to the NXT champion, you bastard!
7:35 he's a dog, and it's tough to teach an old dog new tricks***
This was the best season. I think it never hit a single low and was always on the high! Free Churro is on my top 3 episodes of Bojack now
It was so, so great! I'm so impressed with how consistently excellent the show has been. I think my gut says that my favorite season is Season 4, but I'm about to do a series rewatch so who knows how I'll feel after that.
Its boring the eternal "im so unhappy" drama is
Side note to all this commentary - your hair looks so soft. 😍
Hahaha, you're not wrong :)
Peanut butter doesn't get tired of his exes, they grow up and get tired of him because he is stagnant.
The tape that Ana Spanikopita plays for Diane was a recording (accidentally) made by Heather the manatee in episode 301. When Ana said she was "handling it," I wonder how, exactly, she got her hands on that tape? And Heather was never seen again.
I think you might have misunderstood Diane when she explained about the age of Mr. Peanutbutter's girlfriends/wives. It's not that HE gets tired of THEM when they become less fun. It's that THEY were young and grew up, and he never does. THEY always leave HIM. Even after he leaves Diane, he hasn't, in his heart, actually let her go.
What REALLY hurts between Bojack and Hollyhock is the physical aspect. Over and over, he wants to reach out and make physical contact, but he always stops himself. In the car, he reaches out, and can't let himself touch her. The same thing happened last season, when they were standing by his pool. That little physical bit says so much.
Omg I really hope nothing bad happens to Diane, they can't just kill her off like that
We just watched Bojack choke his girlfriend out... After he mentioned the Princess Diana bit, I wouldn't be shocked.
She's most likely just going to be "dead" to the story, as in she won't be a regular in episodes anymore. If that's what it is, I feel like Diane has more or less finished her story, even if its on a bitter note.
If she has to die, I hope at least they show some respect and don't kill her off-camera.
they can.. and if they did. It would show that the writers are not afraid to kill off a character to tell the story.
when did she died? as far as i remember the season ended up with her driving a car (my memory is shit tho)
Season 5: darkest season of television to date
Season 6: hold my suicide note
I honestly believe season 5 it's just prepping us for season 6 cuz I think itll be its last and final season for the show. I also know that episode 11 he was stupid enough to make an actual phone call to Charlotte when she made good on her word that she will get him if he ever tried to contact her or her family again. I also believe that season 6 will bring back Charlotte and Penny along with the backstory of Bojack sister on how she found her mom. All the episodes for season 5 it's just foreshadowing for season 6. And I truly believe that season 6 will not just be the end of the show but to the end of some of the characters..
There's definitely going to be character deaths. In my view it's almost certain that Diane, Bojack and PB will die.
Really? I can't see them killing off Mr Peanutbutter.
bluesira It's always the one you least expect is my way of thinking about it.
@@bluesira it is hard to see that but at the same time it is not that surprising since mr. Peanut butter has a hard time dealing with grief.
@@Jim-so3zm what do you want to see in season 6? For me personally I would like to see how Bojack will react if he ever saw Pennu again. I would like to see Hollyhock in college and how she deals with being related to Bojack. I do fear that the show will turn more into a sitcom then a dark comady. I'm following the story and want to see how it ends.
My reservations with Dianne is that she takes herself to be the "moral authority" However she doesn't hold herself to the responsible for her actions in the same way that she expects Bojack and the world to do the same, hence, She's an extremely toxic character. Her actions and reasoning although right are far from optimal. She couldn't handle when Bojack told her she was just like her, talk about the truth burns...Sadly she doesn't have anybody to take her to rehab or a her place of refuge, and she lowkey gave up her therapist of 7 years. She steadily been spiraling into a sunken place. Over the course of the season she never unpacked her boxes (about 6 months or so). I think her driving into that tunnel at the end could hold many implications. 1. that she's reached rock bottom dwelling into her "dark place" with no uncertainty of where she's going or what's on the other side, 2. It could mean that Diane's figuratively"dead" to the show and she won't have much weight or presence to the future seasons... Man what a show Bojack sheeesh
The fact that you say that she isint be responsible for her actions actually shows up near the end. She says she is a hypocrite for what she does, slandering people online but at the same time being a role model. She knows shes contradicting herself
@@5h3nn0ng yes she Is showing progress which is not taken for granted... we'll have to see where this goes
@@cococowboah excellently stated. I can relate as well. She's growing on me as well...
yeah Bojack Bojack Bojack!!!
Diane has never been purposefully harmful to anyone in the show. Bojack litterally burns charity money for fun. I would she is right not to want to be compared to him.
Nice Video it's crazy how I don't hear people talk more about how bojack was willing to almost kill himself to get drugs bojack is probably suicidal
Ya know this didn't even properly process for me. I knew he was having a freak out and probably withdrawal symptoms when he didn't have any more pain pills, but I totally didn't put together that he purposely got in the accident to get more.
@@Johnny2Cellos really? I'm surprised. It was pretty clear to me at the time, since he was desperately licking the bottom of a pill bottle immediately before. He reasoned that if he couldn't get his pain meds another way, he intentionally gets into an accident in order to get ahold of the drugs.
Honestly, the whole season I was waiting to see who would drop the fbomb. I thought it was for sure going to be Diane, then briefly worried it would be Hollyhock. I don't know how I feel about them doing the predictable thing and having it be Gina. They handled it well. It was very emotional in a terrible way, and really pressed the whole feminism angle. Since it became a choice between hurting Gina's career simply because the sexist institutes in place would guarantee that she would be remembered as the woman Bojack choked and not the actress. Which is made even worse because the company tanked and Philbert died right after that....I hope Gina is okay.
But Gina was also a one off character. So it's both good and bad that she was the one this season.
Although, I would love it for all the characters we met this season stay staples in the story. Especially the birth mother of PC'S new baby. I think she's interesting, and there is no reason why PC shouldn't involve her in the baby's life.
I love this show so much but I hate people's reaction to Diane...
- Male character does terrible things
- Female character calls male character out for doing terrible things
- viewers: omg I HATE her!
AGREED. Diane doesn't always do the right thing and does things I disagree with, but seeing so many "I hate Diane" comments has been really disheartening, especially given the things BoJack did this year.
I think it’s less to do with gender, and more to do with the manipulative way in which Diane treated Bojack in the INT. SUB episode. Yeah Bojack is a terrible person (“You shouldn’t like Philbert...”) that’s the point of the show; but what Diane did is not lessened by the actions of other male characters. She forced a tormented alcoholic with a history of bad decision making and trauma to recite a taped conversation describing one of the worst things he’s ever done.
Even considering that she didn’t understand what it was properly, she did so out of *spite* and not out of some semblance of wanting Bojack to “be better”.
This isn’t about sexism or politics; it’s about a serious dick move made by Diane. Had she directly asked Bojack or confronted him about it properly like she does later in the season there would be no “omg I HATE her!”, it’s the manner in which she did it that matters.
Regardless, we’re not meant to normalise theses characters, we’re meant to follow the story and I can’t wait till next season.
i personally love Diane, her character, but she has made some shit, expecting the best always from herself and others damages her and her close ones, and even when she tries to help, she talks like it's not out of pure care about the other, i don't know if bc accepting that makes her feel vulnerable, or actually thinks like that. However, i agree that there's way more hate than i expected, precisely because in the end, SHE IS THE ONE that gets Bojack some help, and stays close, with all her shit and his shit, she wants Bojack get better, to be better. I think most of the hate over her is from people that criticize her actions, even though those people criticize like her, expecting the best and anything else is bad
I personally feel like Diane is like a foil to Bojack. Both do bad things and try to find escapes (Bojack with drugs and sex, Diane with politics), but they differ in how they view themselves. Bojack acknowledges that he's done bad things and doesn't try to defend himself. He knows he's a bad person with little hope of bettering himself. Diane likes to deny that she is the problem, getting mad at or blaming others (like she did with PB in earlier seasons). She has a sense of self righteousness about her, despite everything she's done. She's like bojack with a sense of superiority. This season was good for her, showing her coming to understand that she's like Bojack whether she likes it or not.
@@fraserbrown1511 BoJack has been manipulative too. Sabotaging Todd's space opera, trying to wreck Diane's marriage just to name a few. And he keeps on being forgiven by the audience no matter what. Feels eerily similar to a point recently hammered home.
I don't hate BoJack though and I don't love Diane. They're not good guys, but they're not bad guys either. They're just guys that does good sometimes and bad other times. Although BoJack definiately does more bad than Diane so I do feel she got an unfair amount of hate after this season.
This reminds me of the quote Kelsey had when describing Bojack’s behavior on set with Wanda in season 2, “He got famous in his twenties, so he’ll be stuck at that age for the rest of his life.” I think this relates to Mr. Peanutbutter who clearly puts in more forethought to engaging in schemes/projects with Todd than listening to his partner and learning to adapt to her needs/desires. He seems to follow a similar big gesture pattern to try to get his partners to love him back but they get overwhelmed and weirded out by it, and the cycle continues.
This is on the nose but I appreciated that Gina got to sing a showstopper during the episode of that name.
I absolutely adored this season of Bojack for all the reasons you listed. It's astonishing that the show can be this poignant and this sharp!
Here are my predictions for Season 6:
the arc for Season 6 is going to be centered around Bojack's time spent in rehab. He's going to run into a bunch of wacky new characters as he often does and he's going to be incredibly difficult to work with right from the get go because he actively deflects any difficult questions.
Mr. Peanut Butter is preparing for his and Pickles' wedding. Diane gets upset with him because he said he would tell Pickles about his affair, but PB would rather keep up his charade that he's a nice and loyal guy who can never do his loved one wrong because he isn't mature enough to deliver or handle hard news. The season ends with Mr. Peanut Butter finally being ratted out (my guess is Diana finally rats him out via girl croosh takedown) and this time he loses his girlfriend without even being married to her yet and now he has to live with being a figure of controversy, which he is not used to because he's used to being the guy everybody likes. this arc of development is set up for the next season.
Princess Carolyn is caring for her child which she finds difficult because she's a single mother balancing her home life with her work life. She gets completely overwhelmed and starts putting her child through daycare and is now being pulled in every direction. Ralph Stilton is still in her life and offers to help her take care of the baby by being a stay at home dad, but she's too stubborn to let him back in. She's convinced that she can do it on her own and feels like she has to, maybe as an internal need to prove to her mom that she doesn't need a man in her life to be secure. Maybe this ends in heartbreak. Maybe she slips up and child services takes her adopted child away. I know that's really grim and I'm not saying I WANT it to go that way, but knowing this show it'll probably result in something crazy like that.
Todd is up to his usual wacky bullshit. Maybe some kind of sub plot involving his asexuality? idk.
Maybe have one episode early season where Hollyhock visits Bojack in rehab. She gives Bojack encouragement to keep going and inspires him to get better, and Bojack shows hope for progress by finally returning Hollyhock's "I love you".
Maybe near the finale have Charlotte hunt Bojack down to tare him a new one. Maybe she finds out about the time Bojack called her house pretending to be a cable survey because her husband told her about it and how weird the questions were. Maybe she watches Philbert and finds out about the Submarine bit, and she thinks Bojack used his personal story to influence the script. Worse over she sees his speech at the premiere talking about how flawed characters in TV shows show the world it's okay and normal to be as flawed as they are and she thinks that's him excusing himself for what he did. She finds him just as he comes out of rehab, hopeful for the first time in his life, and really lets him have it. Maybe she says "You think this makes up for all the shit you did?! You think because you're finding help that means everything is going to be better now?!" And she basically undoes all the healing Bojack did.
Maybe have the season end on a high note like pretty well every season has. Maybe what Bojack did to Penny has finally been made public knowledge. But maybe . . in a surprise twist . . . Penny makes a public statement saying she forgives him. Maybe she demonstrates once and for all that some scars CAN heal . . . and she takes it upon herself to be stronger than the pain caused to her. And maybe that restores hope for Bojack.
I know I'm speculating a lot and I wrote out an essay basically, but I LOVE speculating about where a series is going.
Season 4 killed Diane for me and somehow this season brought her back and killed her again. I understand that BoJack played a role in Sarah Lynn's death but this whole season is about accountability. Sarah Lynn was 31, only sobered up to get higher when she continued drugs and it was her idea to do heroin. BoJack told her it was a bad idea until SHE convinced HIM to do it. And Diane had no right calling out BoJack like that and reminding him of something that's deeply hurt him
There's absolutely blame to be placed on Sarah Lynn, but also remember that she was completely sober when BoJack came around her place to go on that massive binge/bender. Again, I don't think Diane did the right thing calling him out like that, but I don't think she "had no right" to talk to him about it.
+Jessy Weeks But she was clean. Bojack enabled her. Diane should bring it up. We've seen that PC won't do anything to stop the problem she'll only try to fix it afterwards. Who else is close enough to bojack to reprimand him?
MPB is not close enough.
Todd is gone
PC downplays serious problems/ fixes it after.
Beatrice and Butterscotch are dead.
Hollyhock has trauma and got pushed away.
Diane was that last line of conscious. And now she's gone. Bojack going to have to face Bojack now. I wonder if this show will end with him getting arrested.
But diane wants Bojack to be accountable, just as you said. He wasnt being accountable at all, in his head he cant change and its not his fault hes shitty, he just is. Diane was calling bojack out on his bullshit dude. It IS your fault, you are the one doing these shitty things. Just like Todd said last season. I even think she wasnt hard enough, bojack is SUCH shitfuck. Love him tho, I mean I want him to get better and I hope rehab will help. Diane and PC were the best this season
Diane doesn't know Sarah Lynn got sober only to get super high again after that, right?
I dont see why people say season 4 killed Diane for them because I saw it coming from a mile away. I recently rewatched the series and it was more apparent. They just didn't work together. Diane doesnt know what she wants, doesnt know how to be happy and PB kept trying to make her happy, buying her things, without thinking to much because he never had any experience what she was going through. Also I'm pretty sure she also tired some of his zany antics . Now season 5 DEFINITELY killed Diane for me, I was kinda hoping that at least she could understand and some point get him help but she only lashed out at him and made him spiral worse.
The final shot of every season before this was showing Bojack at a point of change (that he wouldn't follow through on). In this one we focus on Diane watch Bojack enter rehab (without looking back to see her wave), stomp out a cigarette, then take a deep breath before driving off. Then before she drives into the tunnel, the sun comes out from behind the clouds with an effect that looks oddly similar to the "light from heaven" Bojack saw in the episode before. Add in the princess Diana comparisons and I'm extremely terrified for how next season will play out
That's why season 6 picked up immediately after season 5 ended.
Here's the thing about Bojack wanting to come clean to the world though. In my eyes it's just another one of his grand gestures to make up for the shitty things he's done, which he admits he constantly does in the eulogy. The real growth in his character I think comes from his ending, because even though yes, going to rehab is also a grand gesture, it's different because he absolutely has to commit to it and make a change, and also because he's truly doing it for himself, as he realizes that this time there is no winning back the people he drove away with his terrible actions by doing something good. And I'm glad the season ended that way, because if Diane did post the takedown like he asked, he'd either spend the rest of his life doing nothing but feeling shitty about himself, or rationalizing his bad behavior and blaming it on others, in both scenarios unable to get another acting job or really go out in public at all and connect with others ever again.
Seeing PC try to downplay the events and seeing how naive Bojack was, really reminded me of that scene with Bojack’s mom where he comforts her by telling them they’re in Michigan or something but there were great callbacks to other moments of the show.
If Diane dies, that’s it for me. The show is way too depressing as it stands now, and one of the few glimmers is the friendship between Bojack and Diane. Without that, it’s just a bunch of sad characters doing shitty things.
Cool review, by the way. You really seem to love Princess Carolyn. I personally think she’s biting off more than she can chew with the baby.
The only review that matters bless you sir
🙏🙏🙏
Bojack trying to strangle Gina truly broke my heart. The truth is that we DO wanna believe he'll be better. He has the potential to being a good person but he just can't get his shit together
Haven't anyone noticed Bojack is really on his own for the very first time, he has no girlfriend (Gina), no best buddy (Todd hasn't even talked to him other than as the executive of WTIIN.com?), even Princess Carolyn, she's moved on a new stage in her life...and the stuff with Diane... She's not his friend, after the premiere incident i'd check twice before to trust her anything, she just drove him to the Rehabilitation Center to get rid of him and get some space for herself.
He's been mostly alone for a couple seasons now. By the end of Season 3 he had alienated everyone in his life, and that's when Todd left his house too. In Season 4 if it weren't for Hollyhock, Beatrice and Tina moving in he would have been completely alone, and by the end of the season they were all gone again. Then this season he was alone, then started seeing Gina and had a good thing going, and then blew that monumentally. This is really illustrated well in the opening sequences, I've got videos dissecting those too if you wanna check 'em out! I really hope BoJack learns to let people back into his life and keep them there.
I don't think she was getting rid of him, I think she's blinded by a hero complex.
I don't think he is alone because there is still one person who never gave up on him. Mr.Peanutbutter. I mean since Mr.Peanutbutter is feeling guilty about something he did that he is not proud of and well Mr. Peanutbutter is genuinely the closest thing to a hero the series has. I mean he is the only one who ran in to stop Bojack from strangling Gina. He even saved Bojack's life in an earlier episode. He is the one person who forgives Bojack and hears everyone out. He has only snapped at Bojack once and other than that brief rivalry they had he has been a genuinely good friend and seems to believe that even a person like Bojack can change. That one time where Mr. Peanutbutter is hosting a show and looks like he is going to chew out Bojack he does the unexpected and genuinely forgives him even after Bojack made a move on his then wife Diane.
I agree with funnyblog. He still has Mr. Peanutbutter
lol what time is it now dot com, but i couldn't find the link to watch Philbert
Did anyone else pick up on the way that they used Philbert? Playing philbert is bojack just basically playing himself, and the whole season, he try’s to deny that they are the same, intel the 11th episode when he and the audience can’t tell him and philbert apart. This is what led him to having the pill addiction, he had to relive his mistakes and really look at himself, and the pain was to much for him. That’s what the balloon represents, it’s him trying not to look at himself, the self philbert represents. That is why this whole season we see him try and try to fix himself, so he can truly get better. But he fails and then try’s to hide behind his addiction, intel the end of the show where he actually does the right thing.
PC had a new baby instead of BH. This will kill BH. She will not be there for him when he reds her, cause she has a new priority be 1.
Maybe the next season will be him in rehab and then also what's going on the outside and then maybe a couple episodes in he gets out and trys to be better but the influences and cravings come back and e fucks up....
Again.
And then PC is not there to get him out of the sticky situation. And he dies.
@Sentient Block 60 jodita
I have a feeling her kid will be named Amelia (after Amelia Aerheart)
or Ruthie!!
In episode 1, Princess Caroline tells Bojack that at the end of the shoot, that takes off the custome, but at the end of the season he takes the character with him to the real life. (forgive my bad English)
Yesssssssss!!! Love your bojack and review videos
Thanks! So glad you enjoy them :) Hope ya dig this review. I'll have my Intro analysis out tomorrow AM! And probably some more BoJack vids over the next week or two
I love this show so fuccing much because it makes me laugh histerically and cry histerically at the same exact time 😭😭😂
One of my favorite scenes in the show involves the sex robot when Todd is getting interviewed about it.
Todd: Mr. Fondle is a sex robot, and should not be the CEO of any company.
Interviewer: you're speaking metaphorically, right?
Todd: ...No...
Diane’s behaviour in that scene when she blows up on Bojack about all the shit he’s done because she acts very entitled and like she’s so morally superior. I think she’s just projecting her own guilt unto him. But I’m glad she was still there for Bojack in the end.
Oh god Hollyhock not saying I love you back in the final season hurts even more now.
Oh no! The truth hurts!!! Well, you have to tell the truth you know...
For some reason I wasn't as excited for this season as I was for previous seasons, maybe because my mind is in a better place. However, despite starting off somewhat slow for me the season went left real quick. I was not disappointed. Always love the uniquely framed episodes and glad to see the writers are willing to experiment and really push the boundaries. I think that's what makes this show so amazing. I think my favorite episode was the Halloween party, mostly because it lead up to the point of Todd staying at BoJack's. I'll have to rewatch it to really take it in.
I really like your season breakdowns. Literally helps me better understand this show as complex as it is.
Thank you! That means a lot. There's still plenty of stuff I miss though, this show is too damn smart!
Princess Carolin is hands down my favorite character.
I feel like the tunnel scene was a metaphor for the death of the old Diane which is why she's portrayed as princess Diana, as season 6 she changes in order to help her own mental health and move forward with her life
The beginning of the end indeed.
Also that set the stage for the final season which I stopped watching. The heart and soul of Netflix is gone...
Bojack's biggest problem is that he hasn't forgiven himself, don't get me wrong he has a lot a LOT of other issues to deal with, but he always talks of himself as a toxic person and even has accepted that his crap of a childhood is not an excuse, i think that yeah he knows he's bad and is trying to change for the better but that deep down he doesn't think he deserves redemption or happiness
You also forgot how awesome the Meow Meow Fuzzyface part in the drug seeking episode was
One thing, I really liked the one with the Halloween parties. But, I couldn't shake the ageist implication that middle aged women are shrews and nags and only younger women are fun at parties. Diane thinks that about herself and she's wrong. But Mr. Peanutbutter's behavior is the real issue. He's so committed to positive thinking he runs away from anything negative. Instead of working on his relationships, he would rather jump to a new one. That's depressing to see. It was so painful to me to see him propose to Pickles when he was clearly intending to break up with her, but lacked the heart to follow through. That weakness, inability to deliver bad news, is something he can't have a great relationship until he grows out of. I think he'll see that he's gotten more mature over time as well as his ex-wives did. Maybe it's just a dog thing.
"Ageism" 🤣
Gosh that scene in the restaurant made me so angry at Mr. Peanutbutter!
Yeah, me too! I was like no, what are you doing?
Rachael Lefler ugh! That’s gonna backfire so badly next season. I really want to know why he is the way he is in that he simply cannot allow himself to be negative even if it’s for the greater good. It’s gotta be a really good reason. Smh. Another doomed marriage. Hopefully Pickles will say no.
this is a concisely written perspective on the faults of mr peanutbutter's blind optimism or escapist tendencies and how they affect his relationships :) i was sure the writers were setting mr pb up for some breakthrough until he went down on one knee.. it was such a disappointing moment! he does need to learn to deliver "bad news".
How to forgive BoJack?
Remember how Herb couldn't forgive BoJack, but still lived his life? Maybe that's how the series will end. BoJack can't fix everything he's done with a big gesture. The series could end with us, and BoJack's victims, not forgiving BoJack, but still living happy lives. That would also fit with us saying goodbye to the series, goodbye to BoJack Horseman.
Watching this before starting season 6 WHOOP WHOOP
Mr Peanutbutter didn't get tired of his women. They got tired of him. The only one he was unfaithful with, which was WILDLY out of character for him, was Pickles Aplenty.
I think that Bojack being willing to go to rehab and better himself is enough to redeem him for the strangling scene. Finally, he is going to try and get better as a person. I'm really excited for season 6.
What a great and thorough review. My fav episodes are the underwater episode and his mom's funeral.
Excellent recap review! I personally love season 5. Great writing for tying back stories together. I guess you could say that Bojack turned into Vince Wagonner from episode 4. And they framed Vince to be unforgivable. Oof. Tough time for Bojack...
Man when BoJack choked his gf I was truly astounded. I was like “oh my god he actually tried to kill her” and that rly fucked me up too fr
This was so interesting ,, great review:) this season fu**** me UP
Hey, I saw all your reviews, and I felt that they were as good as the show. Now, every time I feel like watching Bojack, I am going to watch the reviews.
This is THE HIGHEST COMPLIMENT. Thanks so much for watching and commenting!
Um it was NOT princess caroyln's fault for Bojack's accident on set. That was completely his own fault but he blames her for that. She did not "neglect" her job she took personal days which should have been perfectly acceptable.
She did neglect her job. She missed out on calls from bojack and the writer dude although bojack was responsible it was still PC's job to ensure her employees don't do stupid harmful shit.
I loved this season so much. The best thing about it is that it had way more character driven drama than before. You learn more about how the characters do what they do and that is something I always wanted to see more of in the show. But because of this choice, not a lot of story actually happens but I'm happy with what we got. I really enjoyed the season and I hope the next one comes soon
That episode with the serious drug trip. Jesus, that was dark. I mean, I know Bojack has done some bad things but assault? That's just . . . wow. But at least he's going to rehab. It's more than I can say for Rick from Rick and Morty. Yeah, I don't like Rick and Morty to this god tier level people put it at. It's funny but Rick just refuses to grow as a person and seems to ignore the fact that actions have consequences. It's why I like Bojack Horseman more, I mean he is still a pretty horrible person but at least he's trying to be better.
The Hollyhock episode hurt me right in the feels man seeing her want to just spend time with Bojack and the events that follow are just heartbreaking . Man I just want to rebinge the whole season again after this review awesome job man .
Only compliant/question I have is what happened with Henrietta? Also kind of disapointed for no Vincent Adultman.
I will always miss Vincent Adultman and I hope he shows back up at some point haha. I think we can assume Hollyhock has some sort of relationship with Henrietta now, I do hope we see it in the future
Have been waiting for the BJ S5 AND your review for a whole year! Great work! Now I start worrying about Diane entering that tunnel.
Season 5 episode 6 is one of the best episodes of the show, period.
Joel Robinson Agreed
Wow. I'm so happy I found your channel! Super insightful and fluid - just a joy to hear. Keep it up!
I personally get pissed about Dianne coming at Bojack about what he did in the past as hard as she did. I do understand where its coming from after Bojack went on stage saying that "Philbert Teaches us its okay to be bad". Considering all of what he did.
I mean her coming at him as hard as she did, reminded him that being bad isn't okay. However, staying trapped in the past in which you cannot change isn't okay either. Dianne doesn't understand that Bojack does need to move on, but in a healthy way. He needs to change and forget the things that happened that cant be changed. He should focus on what can be changed now. Use the past and its guilt as motivation to be better. His guilt will lighten up in the end if he's making an effort to change.
The way he angrily refers to himself in 3rd person shows how much he hates himself. He doesn't attach himself with his own identity by simply saying me or I.
Dianne leaving Bojack hurt him badly. Bojack hurt her in saying that she taught Bojack its okay to be bad through the memoir she wrote about Bojack. Also, Bojack loves Dianne or loves what she provides for him emotionally. In the Therapy episode he mimics her by seeing a therapist. Dianne leaving, means Bojack lost something meaningful to him. Love and emotional stability.
And yes... Bojack is the Victim. Victim of past guilt. Everyone moved on, and hes still stuck with that he did.
i think this guilt thing is precisely the crux of todd's confrontation with bojack in season 4 and diane's this season-- the 2 major fissures between bojack and the friend closest to him at that point in time. the point is that the massive, burdensome guilt which bojack carries cannot be the be-all and end-all of his attempts at correcting past wrongs. he has to make himself accountable for making the effort to go beyond that, meaning he has to stop making use of his emotional baggage and history with abuse (as both victim and perpetrator) to excuse his behaviour.
that will never happen unless he realises that that point will merely be the baseline if he manages to reach it, and he will have to constantly hold himself to some standard; and without expecting deliberate praise or acknowledgement (not that it will be unearned) for this is basic decency. his argument with diane shows us that mentally he has not even reached that point, despite what seems like progress, on the outside, to us. he has not broken away from narcissistic rationalisation of the consequences of his actions, whether in history or present. yes, he is a victim alright, of his upbringing, but by centering this aspect of himself so stubbornly within his relationships with other people, we see that in turn he appears dismissive of how HE victimises those closest to him. he HAS to move past the guilty phase already in order to genuinely shoulder responsibility for the damage he has caused so many people.
in todd's words "you cannot keep doing shitty things and apologising for them as if it makes everything okay."
in diane's words "(bojack: i am asking to be held accountable) it's not going to happen. whatever you put in that story, no one is gonna 'hold you accountable'. you need to take responsibility for yourself."
to clarify though, i do think what diane did on set was horrible. venting her frustration and dissatisfaction with bojack by exploiting her knowledge of that audio recording (essentially her presumptions about the incomplete picture she has of "a girl" and bojack, and without clarifying it with bojack himself) and using it against him in this way, without him knowing what's to come.
so for some reason youtube is convinced that I have a baby and I get nonstop diaper ads, and one of the, I think it's for loves, has the person who voices ana spanakopita and it messes with me every time.
Are you... me? You look similar to myself in my 20's I was confused for a second there lol, anyway, this season was incredibly solid. I don't think anything could reach the mindfuckery of last season, especially for the fact that you can rewatch season 4 immediately after your first viewing and you get a completely different narrative. That was Godtier writing and story telling. This season felt more inline with the other seasons, which is basically some of the best entertainment ... ever.
The eulogy episode was fantastic though I think it lost a bit of its... OMG factor because there's a series called Horus and Pete where Laurie Metcalf does essentially the exact same thing with the structure of the monologue. Still absolutely A++++, but I feel like had I not seen something like that recently, I'd have flipped my shit about how amazingly unique it was.
You mean there’s a similar episode or that the whole show is like that? (If it’s an episode, which?)
Actually in season 3 episode 2, there was a scene where Diane was talking to her mother and you could see her father alive, however he had no lines
6:38 he refused to talk to her about himself, im with Diane on this point
That Eulogy episode had me crying. I relate so hard.
Season 5 was pretty good, but season 4 was the best season by far. Hard to beat it
Season 4 episode 2 and 11 are my favorite s
Never left Bojack's house for seven years. He finally did that in season three.
I love this show
oh hi I love your vids :)
Me too bro u seen season 6 ?
Great review! This is an awesome show, one of my favorites, and often brilliant, especially after season 1. The "Free Churros" episode is now among my most favorite tv show episodes ever, was just so authentic, honest feeling, if also tear jerking. I missed the possible foreshadowing about Diane's future, but I hope it's wrong. I really like her character, despite her flaws, but I like so many characters on this show. Bojack himself has done some pretty horrible things already, and the choking will be hard to forgive, can't say I like his character at this point, but it's hard not to root for him to improve, and hopefully do something to make up for his actions. It's funny, and impressive that a strange cartoon comedy/drama about Hollywood people with so many animal headed characters can feel more real and authentic than most live action shows I've seen.
Diane is pretty much the only character to not successfully introspect and face her flaws or the fact that her destructive nature negatively affects the people in her life. The deepest she goes is "my life sucks, I'm broken". If it wasn't for her spiteful behavior, I believe that BoJack would have had a more positive and good year, and if she dies while the people she hurt still believe that she's blameless and good, that would be unfortunate. Good story-telling, maybe, to see how they react to it, but Diane, more than anybody else, needs redemption through some actual introspection, apologies, and attempts at showing any empathy, if the writers don't actually believe that she was in the right and justified in the way she treats people.
OMG thank you! I've so many poor Diane posts. She's just as bad as Bojack was in n previous seasons. She's the most toxic character in the show because she always thinks she's right.
I don't really see that; PB is only starting to realize something might even be wrong with him and the last scene he was in season 5 was him proposing to pickles instead of acting like a mature adult(the guy is is in his late forties to early fifties). Carolyn didn't address her problems. She just adopted s baby after having been basiclly the way she is now is going have it the baby won't have a childhood it deserves-and she doesn't seem to have planned to change her ways either.
Without Diane Bojack is still Bojack. He is miserable because of how he is-because what he chooses to do, take Diane out of the picture he's no worse than before he met her.
Servo Augusta She's gone out of her way to hurt him several times.
She has hurt him. He has also hurt her. Neither party as been totally kind to each other, there are times where they are mean even cruel to one another.
But they both do far more damage to themselves than to each other. Seriously, before Diane Bojack was objectively no worse off than he was after all the years they've had a relationship. Bojack is miserable because of Bojack's actions-no one is forcing to do any of the bad stuff he routinely does. Seriously, no one forces the liquor he consumes down his throat. No one forces him to break the law. No one forces himself and others in danger when he goes on a bender=Bojack is responsible for Bojack's misery
I think Bojack trying to get Diana to publish an expose on him calls back to then Todd confronted Bojack: You can't keep doing terrible things and expect everything to be okay because you feel bad about it.
I think diane went a little to far when confronting Bojack.
True but considering what she knew is hard not to see how BoJack did himself no favor. He refuse to talk about it for so long and after he almost kill his co star you have to be very naive to take his word for at face value.
I think the show runners wanted to show Bojack being the good guy in the fight. He's the one actually growing as a person and handling the situation as an adult. Diane is supposed to realize she isn't so different from Bojack next season. She is intentionally portrayed as more unlikeable.
Sass disagree. I feel like the creators mostly just portray the events in all their complexity and leave it for the viewer to decide. So much of it is subjective, like how for instance I disagree with the idea that Bojack is meant to be viewed as the good guy. I feel like the point is we were supposed to question whether he's even the good guy this season. I love how much it varies from person to person though
How awful of Diane to force a guy to relive that moment when he almost slept with his best friend's daughter. Really a terrible woman.
Bojack attempt to get better were : trying to drink less. He then became an addict that put his younger sister in danger. And choke his girlfriend. Why is given a pass on that ?
TheFiresloth
Diame was just bringing up shit that had nothing to do with her. She was blaming and accusing Bojack with no?knowledge of his side.
Amazing video, just wanna point out that for me one of the most heart breaking part was after they did the show that got bojack off the hook for the strangling video.
The show still got cancelled