Fun fact: This was the start of a feud between Larsen and Peter David. Which was a part of a general animus between the Image guys and the always piss-and-vinegar soaked PAD, which included the ridiculous "debate" with Todd Mcfarlane. Very soon after the issue where Doc Ock beat The Hulk, Peter David wrote an issue of the Hulk as a direct response, wherein Hulk easily beats Doc Ock. Eric Larsen felt that was disrespectful and petty on the part of David. They exchanged some words via... I believe it was Comics Buyers Guide? It was really bizarre, especially reading it as a kid who couldn't imagine having the time to argue when you're living the dream of working in comics.
I had a few of the action figures from this series as a little kid and had no idea why spider man’s arm was like that or why he had a web blaster backpack thing going on so this was very helpful for closing that loop. Thanks fellas
One thing that never gets said enough about Larsen is his ability to produce high quality work on time and on a monthly basis. Check out the clips on youtube of him drawing sketches for fans- it looks almost exactly like his monthly work. It just pours out of him- ink to paper. I loved this series as a teen.
This was amongst the first Spider-Man stuff I ever read, collected in UK reprint anthologies along with Ditko, Saviuk and Sal Buscema stories. Hell of a variety, visually. Larsen was my favourite at the time, super dynamic and expressive. I remember there was a whole saga in Savage Dragon letter pages between him Peter David, part of it being David's problem with how easily Doc Ock beat the Hulk in this story.
Exactly what I was thinking about. I'd love to see the guys look at Incredible Hulk 396 when Peter David clapped back on Larsen when Doc Ock and Joe Fixit had a run-in. I seem to remember Jim saying that he dug the Joe Fixit stuff, plus you got a Punisher appearance with art by Keown. Maybe there's a chance!
I remember having this set. I got the first one , and I had to have the next ones. These were my go to for drawing Spidey. Larsen was my favorite artist for spider man
I absolutely loved (and still love) these issues. I don't think I ever seen art that pops off a page so much before, or since! Side note on the guest stars: I'm not sure about Deathlok, but Larsen noted that he wanted this to be a re-union of the new Fantastic Four (Spidey, Hulk, Ghost Rider, and Wolverine), but editorial would not allow him to use Wolverine, because he was already crossing over into too many other comics that month. I think it was editorial's choice to include new character, Sleepwalker, in his place. They even lampshade the missing Wolverine in the story by having Hulk quip that Wolverine was too busy with another team-up to attend the New FF reunion.
Great vid, great comics! Larsen repurposed the last page of SM#21 for Savage Dragon #25, with Star crashing through the skylight instead of Spidey - but they're both called Peter, so some of the dialogue even stays the same!
At around 7:30 Jim is talking about the continuous panels and looking for the term, Chris at Comic Tropes dropped a vid today, about the same time this one dropped discussing that very technique and settled on “the de Luca Effect”
I terms of the broken glass Spider-Man eyes, I don’t know if McFarlane invented it but I recall, I believe, with in the first two pages of issue two of Torment he drew him to have the broken glass with his costume all ripped up where from his nose to chin is exposed.
Colorful fun comic books. I had a lot of those growing up. Something about the layout and the colors being so bright and stuff remind me a lot of the Punisher war zone run from back then
I was there for Sleepwalker but mainly because I was a Bret Blevins mark. Also, could it be that 8-Ball was Marvel’s attempt at doing Dan Clowes right?
I loved Sleepwalker, man. I think you have to read that book like an intentional throwback, though. Love-letter to Silver Age type stuff. A character like 8-Ball really doesn’t make sense otherwise, but he’s still a lot of fun if you’re in the right mood.
Mcfarlane also did the broken eye gimmick in his run of Spiderman which came out before these issues, so possibly Larsen got the idea from there? I think it was done by Ron Frenz on his run of Amazing but I cant place it. Still a big Larsen fan to this day, but haven't read Savage Dragon since issue 185ish. Dragon was/is a better comic imo than Spawn ever was.
12:45 I may be off with this, but I think the design for Peter Parker from Spider-Man Unlimited (1999) was partly based on this version of Peter. With the early 90s Spider-Man the animated series, Peter was more beefy, but this is a slight build, still kind of scrawny-ish Petere. The hair though for Peter in Spider-Man Unlimited was bit more... of the time.
Seeing Professor Hulk, I gotta ask if you'll be able to cover Dale Keown's run that introduced the character. Maybe there's nothing worth revisiting, sometimes I got those nostalgia goggles on.
There's some old pulp magazines where millions of people died in the greater New York area every issue. Several of them were focused on villains as the title characters. I think one of those series was called 'The Octopus'. Deathlok had a deluxe mini series around 1990 (with a prequel story in an issue of Marvel Comics Presents) featuring some art by Butch Guice. Around 91-92 a short lived ongoing started featuring art by Denys Cowan. Sleepwalker's series started in 91, and was a fun and original take on 70s horror heroes. As for this storyline, I never picked it up, but a friend did, and he let me read his comics. A good suggestion for a future episode is to go over an issue of Incredible Hulk drawn by Jeff Purves. It was a short run, but it did have a two parter set on Jarella's World.
I'm pretty sure that, yes, the previous Sinister Six story (Return of the SInister Six also drawn by Larsen) is the first time Doctor Octopus wears the white suit. The reason Doc Ock is able to beat up Hulk like that was because he had upgraded to adamantium arms.
i like when Peter David clapped back on Erick Larsen in the pages of Incredible Hulk around this time. I think Eric was aiming for a position on Hulk monthly
21:40 I wondered back in the day if Larsen had Doc Ock humiliate the Hulk as a way to tweak Peter David. I recall that David responded by having the Hulk return the favor in a later issue of that book. (Embarrassed that I know this!)
Yes it's start a war between them, there is also a hulk comics later where betty sugest to wear a fin on his head and says he looks stupid everyone will say it's hulk with a fin on his head (savage dragon)
Chris from Comic Tropes has a really good episode on the how Marvel's editorial (particularly a very young Christopher Priest) fucked the original plans for Hobby all the way up. It was basically a massive pissing contest between Stern, DeFalco, Fingeroth, Priest, et al.
Doctor Octpus could take out Hulk and Spider-Man because he had adamantium tentacles! Only Sandman could touch him but he shot him with a glass canon which is super ill.
As a kid, I loved Mcfarlane, but over the years, I realised that Larsen was sooo much better! Drawing curvy women, stylized but characteristic and resemlance carrying and anatomically correct faces. I even prefer him today over Jim Lee, I think Larsen is more interesting, his characters and scenes have more three-dimensionality to them. Even his Wolverine is better looking to me than Lee's, although in this case, it's a close call. I can read all Larsen's Spiderman issues today.
I'd been reading the 3 spidey Comics for a few years when this came out and really didn't love it. Still, it was better than everything that came after.
I remember buying the first 2 chapters of this when it came out. When I saw Doc Ock knocking out the Hulk, I said, Well. This is crap... and have never bought an Erik Larsen comic since then.
![The Sinister Six [Spider-Man Comic Dub] - ASM Annual 1](/img/n.gif)
Erik Larsen's artwork in this is insane.
the dynamics and the display of action is mindblowing!
Fun fact: This was the start of a feud between Larsen and Peter David. Which was a part of a general animus between the Image guys and the always piss-and-vinegar soaked PAD, which included the ridiculous "debate" with Todd Mcfarlane.
Very soon after the issue where Doc Ock beat The Hulk, Peter David wrote an issue of the Hulk as a direct response, wherein Hulk easily beats Doc Ock. Eric Larsen felt that was disrespectful and petty on the part of David. They exchanged some words via... I believe it was Comics Buyers Guide? It was really bizarre, especially reading it as a kid who couldn't imagine having the time to argue when you're living the dream of working in comics.
I had a few of the action figures from this series as a little kid and had no idea why spider man’s arm was like that or why he had a web blaster backpack thing going on so this was very helpful for closing that loop. Thanks fellas
90s Larsen and Bagley are my iconic Spider-man art.
Some of my favorite comics from the 90s. I still have my issues of these. They were some of the first comics I bought as a collector.
That one page where J.F. Sebastian expo-dumps to Spidey, tho...
One thing that never gets said enough about Larsen is his ability to produce high quality work on time and on a monthly basis. Check out the clips on youtube of him drawing sketches for fans- it looks almost exactly like his monthly work. It just pours out of him- ink to paper. I loved this series as a teen.
Larsens art is exceptional! Love his run on Spider-man so much. Awesome vid as usual too boys! Love it
This was amongst the first Spider-Man stuff I ever read, collected in UK reprint anthologies along with Ditko, Saviuk and Sal Buscema stories. Hell of a variety, visually. Larsen was my favourite at the time, super dynamic and expressive. I remember there was a whole saga in Savage Dragon letter pages between him Peter David, part of it being David's problem with how easily Doc Ock beat the Hulk in this story.
Exactly what I was thinking about. I'd love to see the guys look at Incredible Hulk 396 when Peter David clapped back on Larsen when Doc Ock and Joe Fixit had a run-in. I seem to remember Jim saying that he dug the Joe Fixit stuff, plus you got a Punisher appearance with art by Keown. Maybe there's a chance!
I loved this run, and Hobgoblin looks awesome. That man drew his ass off on these.
The last issue was one of the handful of comics I had as a kid and believe me when I say I read that thing to oblivion!
These are my favorite comics! I love Larsen's art!
Remember these well from back in the day. Weapons Grade Larsen-ogenic!
Spider-man's broken glass eyes were also used by McFarlane in the fifth part of Torment. That was probably also not the first time it was used
Also an era where MJ’s hair is out of control & twice the size of her torso.
He pretty much drew her like he was drawing Starfire.
I remember having this set. I got the first one , and I had to have the next ones. These were my go to for drawing Spidey. Larsen was my favorite artist for spider man
I absolutely loved (and still love) these issues. I don't think I ever seen art that pops off a page so much before, or since! Side note on the guest stars: I'm not sure about Deathlok, but Larsen noted that he wanted this to be a re-union of the new Fantastic Four (Spidey, Hulk, Ghost Rider, and Wolverine), but editorial would not allow him to use Wolverine, because he was already crossing over into too many other comics that month. I think it was editorial's choice to include new character, Sleepwalker, in his place. They even lampshade the missing Wolverine in the story by having Hulk quip that Wolverine was too busy with another team-up to attend the New FF reunion.
Great vid, great comics! Larsen repurposed the last page of SM#21 for Savage Dragon #25, with Star crashing through the skylight instead of Spidey - but they're both called Peter, so some of the dialogue even stays the same!
At around 7:30 Jim is talking about the continuous panels and looking for the term, Chris at Comic Tropes dropped a vid today, about the same time this one dropped discussing that very technique and settled on “the de Luca Effect”
Your guys love for comics is so contagious
I feel like any page of this run would be awesome to own.
I terms of the broken glass Spider-Man eyes, I don’t know if McFarlane invented it but I recall, I believe, with in the first two pages of issue two of Torment he drew him to have the broken glass with his costume all ripped up where from his nose to chin is exposed.
One of the best Spidey artists and run...Erik Larsen at his finest!
Colorful fun comic books. I had a lot of those growing up. Something about the layout and the colors being so bright and stuff remind me a lot of the Punisher war zone run from back then
I was there for Sleepwalker but mainly because I was a Bret Blevins mark. Also, could it be that 8-Ball was Marvel’s attempt at doing Dan Clowes right?
I loved Sleepwalker, man. I think you have to read that book like an intentional throwback, though. Love-letter to Silver Age type stuff. A character like 8-Ball really doesn’t make sense otherwise, but he’s still a lot of fun if you’re in the right mood.
Almost all the guest appearances of superheroes in these issues also had their own on going series starting the same year (92).
Mcfarlane also did the broken eye gimmick in his run of Spiderman which came out before these issues, so possibly Larsen got the idea from there? I think it was done by Ron Frenz on his run of Amazing but I cant place it. Still a big Larsen fan to this day, but haven't read Savage Dragon since issue 185ish. Dragon was/is a better comic imo than Spawn ever was.
12:45 I may be off with this, but I think the design for Peter Parker from Spider-Man Unlimited (1999) was partly based on this version of Peter. With the early 90s Spider-Man the animated series, Peter was more beefy, but this is a slight build, still kind of scrawny-ish Petere. The hair though for Peter in Spider-Man Unlimited was bit more... of the time.
I'm pretty sure Erik has a LOT of fun on those pages. And I love him here, just Great.
Seeing Professor Hulk, I gotta ask if you'll be able to cover Dale Keown's run that introduced the character. Maybe there's nothing worth revisiting, sometimes I got those nostalgia goggles on.
There's some old pulp magazines where millions of people died in the greater New York area every issue. Several of them were focused on villains as the title characters. I think one of those series was called 'The Octopus'.
Deathlok had a deluxe mini series around 1990 (with a prequel story in an issue of Marvel Comics Presents) featuring some art by Butch Guice. Around 91-92 a short lived ongoing started featuring art by Denys Cowan.
Sleepwalker's series started in 91, and was a fun and original take on 70s horror heroes.
As for this storyline, I never picked it up, but a friend did, and he let me read his comics.
A good suggestion for a future episode is to go over an issue of Incredible Hulk drawn by Jeff Purves. It was a short run, but it did have a two parter set on Jarella's World.
fantastic run. picked these up a few years back
I'm pretty sure that, yes, the previous Sinister Six story (Return of the SInister Six also drawn by Larsen) is the first time Doctor Octopus wears the white suit. The reason Doc Ock is able to beat up Hulk like that was because he had upgraded to adamantium arms.
i like when Peter David clapped back on Erick Larsen in the pages of Incredible Hulk around this time. I think Eric was aiming for a position on Hulk monthly
Great to see these comics again.
21:40 I wondered back in the day if Larsen had Doc Ock humiliate the Hulk as a way to tweak Peter David. I recall that David responded by having the Hulk return the favor in a later issue of that book. (Embarrassed that I know this!)
Yes it's start a war between them, there is also a hulk comics later where betty sugest to wear a fin on his head and says he looks stupid everyone will say it's hulk with a fin on his head (savage dragon)
this was my JAM!!!
Chris from Comic Tropes has a really good episode on the how Marvel's editorial (particularly a very young Christopher Priest) fucked the original plans for Hobby all the way up. It was basically a massive pissing contest between Stern, DeFalco, Fingeroth, Priest, et al.
26:00 Rob Liefeld would Approve!
Doctor Octpus could take out Hulk and Spider-Man because he had adamantium tentacles! Only Sandman could touch him but he shot him with a glass canon which is super ill.
Nice
This is THE COMIC that got me into reading comics. I still prefer suit Doc Oc because of this story.
This run fucking rules, made me a Larsen fan
This is an incredible...channel
As a kid, I loved Mcfarlane, but over the years, I realised that Larsen was sooo much better! Drawing curvy women, stylized but characteristic and resemlance carrying and anatomically correct faces. I even prefer him today over Jim Lee, I think Larsen is more interesting, his characters and scenes have more three-dimensionality to them. Even his Wolverine is better looking to me than Lee's, although in this case, it's a close call. I can read all Larsen's Spiderman issues today.
I'd been reading the 3 spidey Comics for a few years when this came out and really didn't love it. Still, it was better than everything that came after.
Guys stop covering my most beloved period in comics there's literally too much content for me to consume hah
To this date I'm still sleeping on Eric Larsen Spiderman. I debating if I should get the comics or the omnibus
I remember buying the first 2 chapters of this when it came out. When I saw Doc Ock knocking out the Hulk, I said, Well. This is crap... and have never bought an Erik Larsen comic since then.
Peter David (who was in the middle of his long Hulk run) was just as pissed and was feuding with Erik about it...among many other things.
Just go to this run in my Spider-man readthrough, and this is borderline unreadable. Like, TERRIBLE! People actually liked this writing?