Are Expensive Carbon Wheels Worth it?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- 20% off Stages Powermeters + accessories, USE CODE "NCC20" at checkout.
stagescycling....
Cycling computer: bit.ly/3nCPOhV
Handlebars:
Front GoPro: amzn.to/3mmzBh7
GoPro/computer dual mount (front): bit.ly/3Bossl0
Rear GoPro: amzn.to/3EoCDb0
GoPro saddle mount (rear): bit.ly/2ZGJtdh
Tires (racing): bit.ly/3Gpz71Q
Tires (training): bit.ly/3jMo88Y
Helmet: bit.ly/2ZtqnH2
Shoes: bit.ly/3nCFuXc
Sunglasses: bit.ly/3CrYyxh
Indoor trainer: bit.ly/3mocfb1
Performance Bike helps support this channel: bit.ly/3EnmWkr
Stay updated with weekly bike racing commentary, tips, and strategy by subscribing:
bit.ly/2wUTrJd
My Strava:
/ strava
Instagram:
/ norcal.cycling
Send Coaching and Collaboration related questions to:
jeff@norcal-cycling.com
![[UNCUT] “บอสณวัฒน์” ลากไส้!! ใครหนุนหลัง "แม่ตั๊ก ป๋าเบียร์" I คนดังนั่งเคลียร์ I 30 ก.ย. 67](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QlD7mU2KKRk/mqdefault.jpg)
I always thought my wheels were slow then I got a power meter and just turns out I just don’t put out as much power as I thought.
I do love my CLX50's... but they came preinstalled on my S-Works Tarmac, so I'll admit they weren't a conscious decision.
Hi Jeff thx for the interesting content ! I am asking myself a different question about road wheels but similar to your : I am ridding now with Bontrager Aeolus RSL 37mm (with ceramic bearings) and I was wondering if they are slower of faster than the Bontrager Aeolus 50mm (not RSL meaning not ceramic)... Thx for the advice ;-) Have a nice day !
Hi, I'm not Jeff but... Deeper wheels of the same profile are going to be faster at race speed, since aero benefits are much more significant than fraction of a Wat per bearing saved (comparing mid-tier steel hub bearings to ceramic maybe 0,5W, top steel vs top ceramic is essentially no difference in drag, yet cheaper). You could calculate the exact break point but I think we could easily assume that above 15mph aero difference of 13mm is superior to usual ceramic gains (which would be dura ace to ceramic speed at around 0.35W).
@@simonRt I think the delta (in watts) is around 0.25 the rim depth difference at 30kmh. So a 13mm deeper rim saves you just over 3 watts at 30kmh.
I think the aero between wheels is firstly overrated and secondly quite misunderstood. especially cross wind stability. However the weight is something that any individual will feel. That weight is concentrated on the outside of the wheels and accelerating is what what takes the power. The only other big difference is the quality of the hub. The rolling friction is not insignificant at low speeds.
have to agree areo wheels are very much in the marginal gains and that's putting kindly and you have to be at the right angle to really make use of the sail effect and vis versa. And i have found the same with bearings which a simple roll down test confirms.
Also unfortunately Jeff just dismissed the second run entirely which showed how much time variance wind and body position changes make in a relatively flat and open course like this. I bet if he had done 3 runs with each wheelset and compared the results, the difference would not be statistically significant.
On the other hand, I love my cheap Elitewheels MARVELs, which are priced similarly to the ICANs. Would love to see a Hambini review about these or the cheaper steel spoke WInspace Lún wheelset.
Your favourite five year old #Hambini #eng
@@HUNHali Exactly, Jeff showed us leaving from the parking lot 3 times and times were within 5 seconds, and the faster run was 1W higher (0.36%) for 5 seconds faster (0.66%). The faster run (12:14) is the outlier. Why was it faster with less power
I liked the attempt to average the data, but still is not enough data to draw conclusions. One rider, one bike, one power model (constant 276w), one road, 4 samples.
Even Cam Nicholls' tests are limited.
Was that double negative in the last sentence intentional?
Or maybe Specialized are just ripping us off with $10k bikes and $2k wheels...
The good news is you can get ~50mm Chinese carbon wheels at a lot closer to 1.4kg than 1.8kg at a similar if slightly higher pricepoint. Winspace Lun 45s retail for $800, ~1450g; Farsports Kaze 45s at $770, ~1455g; LightBicycle Falcon AR46 at $700, ~1410g. 1.8kg for the ICANs just seems exceptionally heavy.
Would've been interesting to see a blind test.
Yes! blindfolded Jeff riding 5 miles is the next Video!
but actually... i'm trying to figure out a way to safely do this. open to hearing any suggestions! In this case even peaking down once at the FAT clx50 front rim would immediately give it away.
@@NorCalCycling tape a cardboard box to your handlebars so you can't see the front wheel
@@NorCalCycling a blacked out Elizabethan collar, maybe...🤣
Just don’t look down? 😂
tubeless sucks!? Enjoy your flats!! I'm never going back!!
funny, I agree with Jeff, tubeless sucks.
I'm spoiled with great roads here in Colorado. I run latex tubes and Conti GP5K and haven't flatted in a few years, riding 4-5 days a week.
Typically the Chinese brands offer a “standard” carbon rim and a “lightweight” carbon rim. It would be interesting to see a comparison of a Rovals versus a Chinese wheel set that is the same weight at the Rovals.
I was wondering the exact same thing.
Aluminum wheels vs cheap carbon sounds like a great comparison test.
Other tests ideas:
Aero handlebars vs round bars. IIRC Specialized said the most aero gains between the tarmac SL6 and SL7 was in the handlebars. It's one of the first surfaces the air hits so making it aero makes sense for maximum gains. So how much difference do aero handlebars make?
Narrow (36cm?) handlebars vs normal width bars. Seemed to be a trend for people to do this, but is it really worth it?
As someone who has switched from round bars vs. aero bars on a climbing bike (for comfort + I race stages/crits and I'm not rich so wanted some advantage over round bars) They made a world of a difference. I can get in a lot more aggressive of a position - I also added budget-ish aero wheels American classic 420 aero and they both are night and day different.
handlebar gains are really in the width. if you go from a 42 to a 38 you will definitely notice a difference in your average speed. same way tt bars give you about a 1-2mph speed boost
They just did one of those
@@sugashack7420 what is the title of the video? I can't find it
Keep in mind it is also mainly their marketing team telling you that you now need a aero handlebar...
At 130lbs I bought some $400 amazon carbon wheels and have over 3,500 miles on them with no issues. Rim brake style and no wear on the braking surface either. So far so good $$$
For the subjective attributes and the real-world race performance, have you considered doing a "blind taste test" at your Alviso criteriums? Tape over the logos and have a friend mount a random pair to your bike (don't look too closely!). Do that for a couple races, and at the very end, have your friend reveal what was what. Much less sciencey, but it would be thoroughly entertaining!
Unfortunately, the freehub sound and especially the weight, will most likely give away very quickly what wheel you are riding...
IO was thinking the same thing! You can easily be swayed even if you think you are not. Simply knowing which wheels are which during the test can influence how you think they "feel". I would for sure have them taped up and hidden by the other guy and do 4 runs the same without knowing which wheels are which.
@@l.d.t.6327 How do you expect to feel the wheels by the weight while riding? You won't notice this difference at all.
@@michadebicki6534 I switched wheels this year and new set is about 400g lighter and you can easily notice the difference
@@michadebicki6534 it is easy to tell that much difference in weight
Jeff, Jeff! Rule 49: Keep the rubber side down.
Wheels are easier to change with the bike the right way up!
I'd love to see an aluminum vs. cheap carbon wheel test. I'm looking at buying a set of wheels for group road rides/races that will go on my gravel bike. Great job with the videos! gearing up mentally to jump back into road racing after years away, and the strategy and play-by-play videos are excellent. cheers!
I can tell you that I have a 38mm set of Super Team chinese carbon wheels on my road bike that I paid less than $300 for and I've got about 10,000 miles on them and they are still super true and look great. They have several different depths and color choices, and their customer service is great. But read all the reviews for yourself and you'll see. You can buy them right from Amazon or you can wait and buy them from China. But you won't be disappointed.
@@shepshape2585 those superteam wheels are also made and sold by many other Chinese sellers without decals and I have 1 set that feels and rides as if it's bombproof. It's heavy yes but feels extremely solid and have not needed to true yet and I hammer it hard on ramps and under pass bridges.
I will say this...light wheels isn't always better, for the non racers out there whose weight is heavy I strongly suggest to not purchase super light wheels...
Cheap carbon vs. High end aluminum
No problems from my cheap $500 Chinese wheels
Aluminum versus CF wheels for amateur posers.
I wouldn’t even pay $500 for a fucking wheel lol
I’d love to see a comparison of low-end carbon versus aluminum. I’m currently mulling over that decision.
Go alu. It's a nobrainer.
I went from a heavy shimano wheel to superteam carbon wheels, i paid just over 400 with tax, best bike upgrade I’ve ever done
I've got a set of 38mm rim brake ican wheels. They weigh 1300 grams and work good for me. I don't think you need deep section wheels personally but thats subjective. I don't think any wheels should cost over 2000 bucks but I also don't think a bike should cost over 10000 bucks. The bike industry is getting out of control with the pricing of anything bike related these days. People need to start putting their foot down and stop paying these outrageous prices on bike things. All the big name bikes are made in the same factories as the so called "Chinese carbon" bikes and yet the "Chinese carbon" is over 4 times cheaper? And guess what, the Chinese companies still make money on these products. That just shows you how greedy the big brands are these days.
Love these wheel testing videos. Definitely wanna see the aluminum vs entry level next :)
They won’t do it because they know , it wouldn’t have made any noticeable difference
You’ll also notice when the whole rim vs disc brakes jabber was going on. That the only valid argument was that disc stopped better in the rain, vs carbon rim brakes. But conveniently they never compared disc to aluminum rim brakes. Also knowing very few ride their bikes in the rain.
Sorry man, I have two sets of Superteam wheels ( cost around $500 each) one for road and tarmac riding 45mm deep (20 width internal)
and another for gravel 38mm deep and 24mm internal ...
I don't see any reason to pay 2,500 for something liek , you have Ican, or Superteam or some of these other manufacturers can do for much much less.
I weigh 200lb and even though I have owned several carbon wheelsets in the past, I have found that a sturdy aluminum wheelset has been my best option.
I also don't race and have zero KOMs 😂
It is still awesome to have you out on the roads on a bike :)
For me the biggest hesitation in going with the lower-end option is always the quality control, reliability and durability issues. In addition, the warranty (breakage) is also always a big factor. If I only had $500 to spend I would likely try to find the highest quality aluminum wheels I could at that price.
This guy gets it. $500 wheels are great on any given day... Until they take you to the dentist.
@@robertradowick380 this was always my fear. descending at 40 mph and a wheel goes pop. I have more trust in my zipp or enve even if i might have heavily overpaid....
@@toshman696969 It's easy to move wheels from bike to bike. Makes sense to buy something that will last.
There are some nice aero aluminium wheels out there for a cheaper budget however it’s the weight which lets these down
I agree, I've an expensive set of carbon wheels, two events missed due to the freehub failing, and a broken spoke on the front wheel after ~ 2000km. Quality is worth it
I honestly think 30 seconds over 25 minutes is a lot. That’s a minute over an hour or 2 minutes over 2 hours. Which is a decent amount of time for my buddies to be waiting for me. (Of course amplified by any further efficiencies in real riding conditions)z
I’ve been using some 500$ csc wheels for over 3 yrs and I have no issues keeping up with guys on on zips and Princeton wheels and I keep up with them with no issues best 500$ spent wouldn’t spend more then 1000k for some carbon wheels to me there pretty much all the same and the gains that are gained threw those more expensive wheels probably won’t be felt by the avg rider.
DT Swiss PR 1600 32mm deep, about as fantastic prebuilt alloy wheelset you can get. I've been dropping carbon boys on my pair for over a year now.
Were you get this 50 mm deep 1800 g heavy ican wheels??? The wheels i see on the web side are all around 1500 or less...
Only agree with the ride experience on Roval, and that marginal gain.
On a race, the marginal gain is even less important, cause it take part only in the solo ride part, other gain will be taked on less fatige.
I can attest to those crosswinds when you are 130lb rider, although I'm not a new rider. I have a pair of Reynolds 50mm wheels and even those give me a fit in the crosswinds. I would love to see how a good pair of Zipps or even the Shimano ones do out on the road.
303s measure pretty poorly with crosswinds, i know that. There is a trend coming up the ranks of different size and shape rims front and back, U shape, shallower and wider on the front and V shaped, deeper for the rear. Supposedly meant to combat side winds. My Parcours Ronde do very well in crosswinds, i was out in 32mph gust the other day the steering was unaffected it was me the wind was pushing against.
I have the shimano ultegra c50. I‘m 82kg and you can definitely feel the crosswinds (especially compared to the 23mm rims I had before) but as long as you have your hands on the handlebar it’s no problem at all
I tell all beginner crit racers to do the following 1. buy an aluminum framed bike like a caad. 2. Buy alloy wheel sets that are lightweight and shallow. They are easy to replace because they won’t cost a lot and they are also much harder to ruin. No, they aren’t aerodynamic, but the beginner crit racers are going to be drafting a lot. The only time it’s gonna matter is the final 200 m when they go out for some sort of a sprint and it won’t be long enough time to take a vantage of aerodynamics. I also tell them
To lose 20 lbs. everyone is overweight these days.
About the crosswinds. I bought a set of old, maybe cheap 52mm carbon wheels last spring and one of my first rides was through a mild storm. Of course, they would catch wind and riding was really difficult. I felt my side abs after that because I had to balance myself all the time and I wasn't used to that coming from Zwift in the winter. In the summer I bought another lighter bike which came with very light 25mm aluminum wheels from Mavic. It so happened that I rode that same bit from the other ride through another mild stormy day and there was barely any difference in catching crosswinds. I just wanted to share that because it seems that those more expensive, more RnD wheels seem to be a nice-to-have.
I have the ican aero 40, which come in at 1400. I payed 700 for them shipped. The wheels feel much more stable than a 50 in a different brand I own. I choose the ican b/c of the weight and price. I'm not rich and if I was I still wouldn't pay 2500 for a wheelset. Don't forget we're adults paying lots of money for plastic toys
The front rim is not aerodynamic by any means or measurement. This is just advertising brainwash
chinese wheels are why some of the lower level races are so dangerous nowadays. bunch of zwifters who have never been in a fast bunch throw these on and show up to their local race then cant handle their bike, let alone with shallow rims on.
Would be really cool to see an aluminium wheels like the Campagnolo Zonda !
I got a pair of Mercury S5s for my race bike early in 2019 and they've been perfect the last 3 years (9,663 miles). They're MSRP is 1200 but i got them on sale for $900. They're made in the US and honestly are a pretty nice set (1600g). I'm a low weight rider at around 140lbs and 5'4" and while crosswinds aren't fun, they're manageable. I agree with you Jeff, the 1000-1500 mark is a really good compromise. Still a chunk of money but no need to spend $2500 on a set.
Agree on the Mercury quality for value...I always question when a markdown from MSRP is so large, but as a non-racer I took the value and found a wonderful difference from my stock aluminum wheelset on my Giant Defy.
I went from aluminum wheels to low end carbon and felt a massive improvement. I got slightly less cheap carbon wheels this past year ($469 60mm rim wheels from Elite) and I also switched to TPU tubes and I noticed a big change for the better. I'm on my third set of cheap carbon wheels in a 6-ish year period, but I think if I was using disc wheels I would have invested in something in the 800-1000 range.
Same
Placebo effect BS for amateur posers. 😀
I'm thinking about going carbon but three sets in a six year period is way more than I want to spend
Yeah it's a tough choice :(
I'm with Jeff, (road) tubeless sucks! :D As for the differences, the weight and the "mullet" design are two major changes, in favor of the CLX 50s. And I COMPLETELY agree that the $1,000 - $1,500 price range is the sweet spot. Along with the ones Jeff mentioned, Scribe, Hunt, Reynolds, Fast Forward, Fulcrum... all of these brands offer great wheelsets in this range.
Yeah, tubeless is too much of a hassle for road bikes. Great when it works, but when tubeless fails it's a hot mess. Rather just put a new tube in and move on
@@fkrr5 tubless very rarely fails though. After years, I've to put in a tube once between two bikes. It wasn't even a "hot mess". I simply put in a tube and went on.
Jeff, you make a lot of valid points about the feel and aerodynamics of the more expensive wheels, but you are mistaken about weight being a factor. Rotational weight makes literally no difference whether on a climb, during a time trial, or during a crit. Now of course several pounds would make a difference, but we're only talking about 400 or 500 grams. To back up this statement, I refer you to a GCN video where they talked to an engineer who specializes in aerodynamics and he goes over everything. If you want to skip to the part about rotational weight during a crit, skip to the 10:00 mark. Again, the way the wheels perform in the wind and their aerodynamics do make very small differences, but for those spending big money on lighter wheels because they think they're buying speed, they would be better off spending it elsewhere (or ideally not spending it at all and just training harder). Here is the link:
th-cam.com/video/0QDnUkUaQfk/w-d-xo.html
Weight is less of an issue if you get your wheels rolling once and go at a given speed without braking for a while. If you have to slow down and accelerate again frequently weight does matter a lot and a metric pound on the wheels makes a huge difference.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 Watch the video
I wonder how the Elite-wheels of 1150,- stack up against these rovals. I have the gravel Drive version, and they feel fantastic.
Stock aluminum wheels vs upgraded alloy vs up to $1500 carbon would be good, too.
Rationale: HED Ardennes alloy wheel for $900 vs a $1200ish carbon setup would be very close, though you’d have to pick between a low profile or deeper carbon wheel depending whether you’re trying to capture aero benefits of entry carbon vs high end alloy
All metals used in the bike industry are alloy.
ICAN's outer width is 25 mm they are not meant to be used with 28 mm tires so it's not fair test. You are comparing airfoil with a bulb .
Yes i'm surprised he pointed that out on the Roval but didn't think to pick 105% tyres for the ICANs?
I have two sets of Superteam 50mm carbon wheels. I have thousands of miles on them and I’ve had zero problems. The first set is five years old the other set is three years old.
Superteams....yup have set as well...fast wheels, but my rear makes noise like the spoke tension isn't right even though they have been checked
superteams are the best cheap wheels. I use those at crit racings and they feel good
@@poxm ll be my next upgrade
the wheels are the newer rapide clx and not the clx50, right?
bro try it in elite wheels bro you will be amazed instea of i can same price but lighter more aero
I have some 50mm light bicycle wheels that are way less stable in crosswinds than the Enve ses 7.8 I replaced them with. The big companies really do know something about real world wind conditions.
If I want a 50 mm deep front rim, it's DT Swiss ARC or nothing for me. This may be the only expensive brand I'd be willing to buy.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 TLR is 1299.99$ for the front wheel. A wheelset is more expensive, more than double that price (rear wheel is more expensive than the front wheel)!
0-40 mph sprints, do about 10 passes with each set of wheels.
These are interesting videos. Back in my day we used to do this kind of test coasting down a hill and timing our runs (to test TT position). We didn’t have power meters so it was a good way to do multiple runs consistently
I'd love to Farsport wheels which are 1370g for 45mm depth with DTSwiss 240 hubs for around $1000 vs the Roval high end wheel set.
For me they perform pretty well in cross winds, but I never actually rode Rovals, so maybe I just don't know what actually great means in cross winds
Let's see a carbon handlebar stem vs stock comparison video!
Tubeless does suck
Thank u so much jeff for creating this kinds of videos. To me as a cyclist, this helps me in budgeting my money on my bike upgrades, to know the benefits of these wheels are really a great help.
Very interested in these comparison videos as I’m looking to buy my first set of carbon wheels with an eye toward getting into crit racing and possibly longer road stuff. Think you do these testing and recommendation vids better than just about anybody.
I would LOVE to see the difference between high end aluminum and low end carbon. Ive been deciding between a canyon ultimate al7 vs sl7 for awhile now - both 105 only diff is aluminum vs cheaper carbon. thank you!
mainly it will be riding comfort allowing for more power I would imagine. I road an aluminum frame for years and never thought a carbon frame would make a difference. Not only does the weight make a difference, it reduces a lot of road vibration. If you can I would buy carbon
Very curious about acceleration tests!
I can vouch for the durability of Ican wheels. I’ve crashed mine hard twice and they’re still fine
If you pay $2500 for a 1400g wheel set, punch yourself in the head a few times.
I recently upgraded from Fulcrum aluminum wheels to Roval C38 entry level carbon and the biggest immediate takeaway is the ease at maintaining speed. Can't wait to see the next vid on this!
Wait till you use some nice rim brake wheels mate.
Test the allez against the tarmac
Just for giggles sometime: it would be fun to see a comparison of top-of-the-line 1980s race wheels with contemporary race wheels. I know it would be really hard to do with a rear wheel because of reasons but, even if you just swapped in a front wheel. Say, a 28 hole Mavic SSC rim laced three cross with DT 15 gauge spokes to a Campy front hub with a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular mounted…
As someone who was riding in the 1980 I can assure you that quite likely the results would be that the 1980 tech is beating modern stuff. Modern construction is mainly not only about better performance but about marketing, reducing general manufacturing costs and in esp. manual labor.
Have just begun investigating carbon wheels. Didn't know there were so many lower cost options from quality manufacturers. BTW, love my Fulcrum Racing Zero aluminum wheels. Absolutely bomb proof.
Great content, how about high quality aluminum wheel versus entry-level quality shallow carbon wheels? That’d be great to see how a newbie would benefit with new carbon wheels that were 35mm or less!
Spending more than 1200-1400 on a set of wheels will gain you absolutely nothing more than brand bragging rights.
The compatibility of the rim to tire size could at least partially explain the increased drag and lower stability of the ICAN. To maintain smooth flow around the airfoil shape especially in crosswinds, the rim should be larger than the tire (105% as large ideally). In this test, the Roval CLX50 is 29.4mm wide, while the ICAN Alpha 50 is 24.8mm. It seems that both were tested with a Grand Prix 5000 28mm tire, which is a much better aerodynamic fit for the Roval.
More expensive brands like Roval were quicker to implement wider rims, but now budget brands are catching up and you can get $500 wheelsets that are 28 or 29mm wide.
It seems that the more expensive wheelset gives you better QUALITY of ride (there's something that ROVAL did right in engineering the wheels to handle the crosswinds, that the cheap wheels didn't). This justifies the cost of the wheel. Then they have to TELL us that they did better quality and that "telling us" is their MARKETING which costs more money. I wouldn't pay for a 1% marginal gain in speed, but I would pay for QUALITY, RELIABILITY, and CONFIDENCE in the company to BACK UP their product. Love your channel. - Cycling in Southern California.
I look forward to your AL vs C comparison.
i have the roval cl50's. i just couldn't justify the clx cost. i can tell you now they are great and pretty bullet proof. after two hard crashes they are still going strong. after thousands of miles im wondering when I should do some maintenance to the hubs. ive added more grease to the hubs but never really taken everything apart to clean everything.
CL versión I guess are far better that CLX. At least in real life not on the paper, no need to upgrade.
I think these weren’t the CLX50s, the logos on the wheels show they’re the Rapide CLX wheelset which are 51/60 rim depth
noticed that the disc rotors used are different. some rotors dissipate heat quicker by generating more turbulence which creates aerodynamic drag. might want to keep that as a constant.
Jeff: 250 watts average, because i am out of shape today..
Me: looking at my 140 watts average 😂😂😂
It would be fun if someone riding the $2,500 wheels got defeated by the one using the $500 wheels🙄
Middle ground.. that would be my Yoeleo C50’s. Done about 60 races in them without issues except a broken spoke after one of my handful of crashes.
I'd love to see Aluminum vs Carbon! I wish I could help out (I live in Evergreen)...I have Campy Ultra Shamals...but they're rim brake. Maybe if you can find someone with entry level Carbon rim brake wheels?
LOL $500 wheel set is cheap? My 'upgrade' alloy wheelset costs around $200 and I feel like I improved my ride a lot. 32mm shallow rim-brake rims. I love my Mavic Cosmic SLR wheels. They look great, feel solid and kept perfectly true after several hundred miles of riding. To each their own 😉
Thanks for your videos. Just an idea, I would like to see a similar comparison between aluminum frame (from known popular brands) vs Carbon entry level frames (also from known brands), in terms of comfort, handling, performance, etc… is worthy to spend a bit more? Or is it worthy an upgrade? For example, trek emonda ALR 5 vs Emonda SL 6, or trek Domane for endurance category, cannodale synapse, or Specialized Diverge for gravel category, all of these bikes models offer versions in Aluminum and entry level Carbon fiber.
heck, dan bingham had 18,000 pound handlebars on his world hour record. lady who won UCI world road championship had $1000 SOCKS... so you can buy an advantage given sufficient funds. which sucks. in japanese keiren racing it is all STANDARDIZED parts/bikes. more fare
Here's another way. Don't buy wheel sets. Buy good rims. Quality hubs. And get them built up for you by a great wheel builder.
Thank you for doing repeated rides :)
Cycling weekly made a wind tunnel and real world test on different kinds of aero wheels. Turns out the Roval was a huge shocker and big upset during the test. Why? Because it is so "expensive" and it performed poorly. Doesn't even come close to the so called "big guns" like Enve, HED, ZiPP and the new product brand KNIGHT thst outperformed Roval big time! The dissappintment is why roval is so expensive and yet it performs poorly.
the subjective commentary is too much for me imo... but Im biased and think spending $2k+ on wheels is silly. Still, it would be interesting to see a 'blind placebo' on this.
Yes please, aluminum wheels versus cheap carbon wheels with some accelerations for your next test!!d
A lot of unsupported assertions and assumptions being made in the opening of this video.
1. Assuming that wind-tunnel testing inevitably creates a superior product. It doesn’t. It only guarantees that a wheel was tested in a controlled environment for a limited amount of variables.
2. Greater Crosswind stability in more expensive wheels. This is a claim, not a fact. And difficult to test for.
3. Lighter will definitely be faster. Except it WONT for 99% of riders. It will FEEL different, but a difference of 300g will be negligible to overall speed in most circumstances. Most of us aren’t crit racers. Most of us ride for pleasure and fitness.
4. More expensive brand name wheels have better quality control or superior manufa. JUST. NOT. TRUE. I refer you to Hambini’s channel…
Subjective experience of “feel” is notoriously susceptible to confirmation bias. Best way to eliminate that is a double blind test.
Elite Drive 50D. $1000 and 1300 or so grams. Killer!
$ 2000 different for 500 gram only? damn I choose ICAN definitely. Right now I use brand "ELITE" for Carbon Wheelst 60mm and they are very good and fast, I use them for almost 2 years and still fast without any issues, my weight is 105 Kg btw, pretty overweight hahahaha......
I really confuse why big companies give a very high price for carbon wheelset while they have a strong rivals such as china brand with a good quality too. Too much different while a lot of cyclists around the earth dont have that much of money.
Hah! I got some 400.00 chinese carbon rim wheels, they weigh exactly the same as a basic set of DT-Swiss aluminum rim wheels. to the gram....................beware of aero-tested parts, it can really vary depending on who tests it and who is paying.
My 400.00 wheels do work just fine, have needed 0 attention.
Sage advice, with perspective to boot. I'd be interested in the difference in cheap carbon wheels vs aluminum rims strictly for academic purposes. Myself, I'll spend the $1,500 and purchase the most bang for my buck .....
Jeff, any thoughts on the new Rapide CL II? Looks like it follows the trickle down idea, but perhaps just outside the $1,500 budget, but otherwise has all the aero tech from the more expensive CLX?
certainly appears that way, but i haven't tried them so i'd only be speculating. I used the CL50 (I) for a couple years which were/are fantastic.
The math on how acceleration would amplify small weight differences among wheels is a bit shady. While 400 g sounds like a major weight penalty for a wheelset (~25% heavier!), you need to factor in the weight of the bike and the rider, which are also being accelerated. Assuming a 7 kg bike and 68 kg rider, that extra 400 g amounts to ~0.5% weight difference. I'd argue that's well within the margin of error of your testing protocol. And no, the fact that this is 'rotating weight' doesn't amplify the effect in any meaningful way. That's just 2010s marketing speak.
My Superteams, weigh 7 grams less than my ZIPP 404's and cost $1876 less per pair. You are already bias in that you bought the Rovals, and you need to justify that expense. Also, paired them up against a heavier wheel, try finding a cheap 50mm of the same weight. But at the same time you are comparing cross wind performance which happens how much in a Crit???
I think to be fair the aluminum wheel should be the same weight as carbon. Something like the hunt gravel race wheelset that is 1400 grams vs a decent gravel carbon that is within 100 grams + or -?
First run 12:36 @ 276w
Second run 12:31 @277w
Third run 12:14 @ 276w
Fourth run 12:36 @ 276w
Average first and fourth run 12:36
Average second and third run 12:22
The difference is 14 sec between the wheels, not 27 sec. Why bother with doing 4 runs if you're not even going to use the average numbers.
Also, 12:36 - 12:14 is not 27 sec, it's 24.
Also, why are we not discussing the second run outlier.
If you're going to be scientific about it, then do the science correct. I give you a C- on this project.
Your bias is showing.
Yoeleo Pilots 50mm - 1350 gram, winspace hyper 50mm - 1400 gram. Lighter and quality vs the roval mid/low end. I don't think it's worth the extra money for north American brans unless you are really good or really rich.
Garbage review…save yourself $2000 usd & purchase the non branded rims with some of the saving spent on hub/bearing upgrades…
Test the HUNT RACE AERO WIDE WHEELSET alloy wheels, cost 550 usd and weigh 1450g. Would love to hear your thoughts
how exactly does a lighter, more expensive wheel make cross wind stability (genuine question). All I can think is how the carbon flexes laterally...and carbon is fairly stiff. maybe the spokes?
I bougtht 1400$ handmade 48mm carbon wheels (Duke rims). they are light (a little bit over 1400g), fast and usable for all conditions.
very interested by your next test (alu vs carbon). Also the 1% diiference you got probably come from the weight difference only (400gr) and not the profile of the wheel itself... You should study this very smart interactive calculator which show relation between wattage, weight, Frontal area, grade of hill, wind... The tool is available by googling : "An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed"
That instability he was experiencing in the crosswind would have slowed him some too
This comparison is still subjective. I am no longer a racer, I just do long rides....the $500 will work for me....
Omg jeff. Extremely good idea. For your “low end carbon” could you purchase a chinese made frame and compare to one of the best aluminium bikes caad 13? If you say gc performance’s videos(not sure if you heard of him) He build a fake chinese pinarello for less than 3k. Could you maybe find someone who has that kind of fake chinese carbon frame and compare it with the real deal? For example a fake chinese venge and your actual venge with exactly the same setup?
Speed cost money how fast do you want to go. 🤑
For $500 those ICANs are probably exceptional performance for the money over a stock set of Aluminum wheels.
Arrrr, he turned his bike upside down to change wheels! On gravel! Scratches, so many scratches! Also just hold 250w over 4 runs...yeah like most of can't even hold that for an hour 😕