I think the aero between wheels is firstly overrated and secondly quite misunderstood. especially cross wind stability. However the weight is something that any individual will feel. That weight is concentrated on the outside of the wheels and accelerating is what what takes the power. The only other big difference is the quality of the hub. The rolling friction is not insignificant at low speeds.
have to agree areo wheels are very much in the marginal gains and that's putting kindly and you have to be at the right angle to really make use of the sail effect and vis versa. And i have found the same with bearings which a simple roll down test confirms.
Also unfortunately Jeff just dismissed the second run entirely which showed how much time variance wind and body position changes make in a relatively flat and open course like this. I bet if he had done 3 runs with each wheelset and compared the results, the difference would not be statistically significant. On the other hand, I love my cheap Elitewheels MARVELs, which are priced similarly to the ICANs. Would love to see a Hambini review about these or the cheaper steel spoke WInspace Lún wheelset.
@@HUNHali Exactly, Jeff showed us leaving from the parking lot 3 times and times were within 5 seconds, and the faster run was 1W higher (0.36%) for 5 seconds faster (0.66%). The faster run (12:14) is the outlier. Why was it faster with less power I liked the attempt to average the data, but still is not enough data to draw conclusions. One rider, one bike, one power model (constant 276w), one road, 4 samples. Even Cam Nicholls' tests are limited.
The good news is you can get ~50mm Chinese carbon wheels at a lot closer to 1.4kg than 1.8kg at a similar if slightly higher pricepoint. Winspace Lun 45s retail for $800, ~1450g; Farsports Kaze 45s at $770, ~1455g; LightBicycle Falcon AR46 at $700, ~1410g. 1.8kg for the ICANs just seems exceptionally heavy.
Aluminum wheels vs cheap carbon sounds like a great comparison test. Other tests ideas: Aero handlebars vs round bars. IIRC Specialized said the most aero gains between the tarmac SL6 and SL7 was in the handlebars. It's one of the first surfaces the air hits so making it aero makes sense for maximum gains. So how much difference do aero handlebars make? Narrow (36cm?) handlebars vs normal width bars. Seemed to be a trend for people to do this, but is it really worth it?
As someone who has switched from round bars vs. aero bars on a climbing bike (for comfort + I race stages/crits and I'm not rich so wanted some advantage over round bars) They made a world of a difference. I can get in a lot more aggressive of a position - I also added budget-ish aero wheels American classic 420 aero and they both are night and day different.
handlebar gains are really in the width. if you go from a 42 to a 38 you will definitely notice a difference in your average speed. same way tt bars give you about a 1-2mph speed boost
Thank u so much jeff for creating this kinds of videos. To me as a cyclist, this helps me in budgeting my money on my bike upgrades, to know the benefits of these wheels are really a great help.
About the crosswinds. I bought a set of old, maybe cheap 52mm carbon wheels last spring and one of my first rides was through a mild storm. Of course, they would catch wind and riding was really difficult. I felt my side abs after that because I had to balance myself all the time and I wasn't used to that coming from Zwift in the winter. In the summer I bought another lighter bike which came with very light 25mm aluminum wheels from Mavic. It so happened that I rode that same bit from the other ride through another mild stormy day and there was barely any difference in catching crosswinds. I just wanted to share that because it seems that those more expensive, more RnD wheels seem to be a nice-to-have.
You’ll also notice when the whole rim vs disc brakes jabber was going on. That the only valid argument was that disc stopped better in the rain, vs carbon rim brakes. But conveniently they never compared disc to aluminum rim brakes. Also knowing very few ride their bikes in the rain.
Typically the Chinese brands offer a “standard” carbon rim and a “lightweight” carbon rim. It would be interesting to see a comparison of a Rovals versus a Chinese wheel set that is the same weight at the Rovals.
I have a pair of vision metron 40s for quite a while now and it does the job pretty well but my front wheel warped and I bought an unbranded chinese front rim as a temporary replacement and quality wise it's uncanny Idk if they're gonna hold up tho (If I'm gonna transplant the decals from my metron to the chinese rim you wouldn't be able to tell the difference lmaoo)
I recently upgraded from Fulcrum aluminum wheels to Roval C38 entry level carbon and the biggest immediate takeaway is the ease at maintaining speed. Can't wait to see the next vid on this!
I got a pair of Mercury S5s for my race bike early in 2019 and they've been perfect the last 3 years (9,663 miles). They're MSRP is 1200 but i got them on sale for $900. They're made in the US and honestly are a pretty nice set (1600g). I'm a low weight rider at around 140lbs and 5'4" and while crosswinds aren't fun, they're manageable. I agree with you Jeff, the 1000-1500 mark is a really good compromise. Still a chunk of money but no need to spend $2500 on a set.
Agree on the Mercury quality for value...I always question when a markdown from MSRP is so large, but as a non-racer I took the value and found a wonderful difference from my stock aluminum wheelset on my Giant Defy.
I’ve been riding with ICan since 2020 on my TT bike. I’ve done 3 70.3 races with them among other races and long rides. I paid $800 for my wheels and I’ve had no significant issues with them. Great video. I was researching upgrading my wheels but I don’t think I need to after watching this :)
but actually... i'm trying to figure out a way to safely do this. open to hearing any suggestions! In this case even peaking down once at the FAT clx50 front rim would immediately give it away.
I'd love to see an aluminum vs. cheap carbon wheel test. I'm looking at buying a set of wheels for group road rides/races that will go on my gravel bike. Great job with the videos! gearing up mentally to jump back into road racing after years away, and the strategy and play-by-play videos are excellent. cheers!
I can tell you that I have a 38mm set of Super Team chinese carbon wheels on my road bike that I paid less than $300 for and I've got about 10,000 miles on them and they are still super true and look great. They have several different depths and color choices, and their customer service is great. But read all the reviews for yourself and you'll see. You can buy them right from Amazon or you can wait and buy them from China. But you won't be disappointed.
@@shepshape2585 those superteam wheels are also made and sold by many other Chinese sellers without decals and I have 1 set that feels and rides as if it's bombproof. It's heavy yes but feels extremely solid and have not needed to true yet and I hammer it hard on ramps and under pass bridges. I will say this...light wheels isn't always better, for the non racers out there whose weight is heavy I strongly suggest to not purchase super light wheels...
These are interesting videos. Back in my day we used to do this kind of test coasting down a hill and timing our runs (to test TT position). We didn’t have power meters so it was a good way to do multiple runs consistently
I went from aluminum wheels to low end carbon and felt a massive improvement. I got slightly less cheap carbon wheels this past year ($469 60mm rim wheels from Elite) and I also switched to TPU tubes and I noticed a big change for the better. I'm on my third set of cheap carbon wheels in a 6-ish year period, but I think if I was using disc wheels I would have invested in something in the 800-1000 range.
For the subjective attributes and the real-world race performance, have you considered doing a "blind taste test" at your Alviso criteriums? Tape over the logos and have a friend mount a random pair to your bike (don't look too closely!). Do that for a couple races, and at the very end, have your friend reveal what was what. Much less sciencey, but it would be thoroughly entertaining!
IO was thinking the same thing! You can easily be swayed even if you think you are not. Simply knowing which wheels are which during the test can influence how you think they "feel". I would for sure have them taped up and hidden by the other guy and do 4 runs the same without knowing which wheels are which.
For me the biggest hesitation in going with the lower-end option is always the quality control, reliability and durability issues. In addition, the warranty (breakage) is also always a big factor. If I only had $500 to spend I would likely try to find the highest quality aluminum wheels I could at that price.
@@robertradowick380 this was always my fear. descending at 40 mph and a wheel goes pop. I have more trust in my zipp or enve even if i might have heavily overpaid....
I agree, I've an expensive set of carbon wheels, two events missed due to the freehub failing, and a broken spoke on the front wheel after ~ 2000km. Quality is worth it
I weigh 200lb and even though I have owned several carbon wheelsets in the past, I have found that a sturdy aluminum wheelset has been my best option. I also don't race and have zero KOMs 😂
The compatibility of the rim to tire size could at least partially explain the increased drag and lower stability of the ICAN. To maintain smooth flow around the airfoil shape especially in crosswinds, the rim should be larger than the tire (105% as large ideally). In this test, the Roval CLX50 is 29.4mm wide, while the ICAN Alpha 50 is 24.8mm. It seems that both were tested with a Grand Prix 5000 28mm tire, which is a much better aerodynamic fit for the Roval. More expensive brands like Roval were quicker to implement wider rims, but now budget brands are catching up and you can get $500 wheelsets that are 28 or 29mm wide.
Stock aluminum wheels vs upgraded alloy vs up to $1500 carbon would be good, too. Rationale: HED Ardennes alloy wheel for $900 vs a $1200ish carbon setup would be very close, though you’d have to pick between a low profile or deeper carbon wheel depending whether you’re trying to capture aero benefits of entry carbon vs high end alloy
noticed that the disc rotors used are different. some rotors dissipate heat quicker by generating more turbulence which creates aerodynamic drag. might want to keep that as a constant.
I love how you followed the natural progression of cost basis Vs needs Vs wanting to buy slightly higher end wheels. The fact you end up in exactly the same place as I did $1k to $1,500 is reassuring. A few companies have wheels on sale in that price range and some even have great warranties. Excellent review & thanks for all the great info.
Late to the party, but super interesting! What I'm taking from this is lighter / more expensive wheels for crits where you're constantly slowing down and speeding up and need to accelerate over and over, and heavier / cheaper wheels for TT or flat-ish triathlons where you're riding at a relatively constant speed throughout. In fact heavier wheels will make it easier to maintain a higher speed, if the weight is in the rims anyway....
I have three sets ICANs. A disc, rim brake set and a fixie set. I live in a high cross and headwind area. These are 40's in front and 50's in the back. I've been very happy with them so far and average 7,000 miles a year. They come with quality bearings. I've been in two 25 mph bike race crashes and the wheels survived better than I did. Rolling weight does affect acceleration, without a doubt.
I am heavy rider live in hilly region. One difference is after a super heavy steep hill descent. The cheaper wheel will have slight off on the rotor causing some rotor rubbing, but as it gets cooler later on it resume back. Not sure if that is just the stress on the hub it can't handle or is it the heat. I had a lot of hills here that needs this type of braking effort to bring it to a stop.
Yes! Testing alu / carbon would be very cool! I have the Giant Contend AR 1 which I always explain to people as the alu endurance version of the TCR. (I know that's not correct and it's a lot closer to the giant defy but it looks a bit like older alu TCR's). So I would love to see a comparison between alu/cf bikes.
I can attest to those crosswinds when you are 130lb rider, although I'm not a new rider. I have a pair of Reynolds 50mm wheels and even those give me a fit in the crosswinds. I would love to see how a good pair of Zipps or even the Shimano ones do out on the road.
303s measure pretty poorly with crosswinds, i know that. There is a trend coming up the ranks of different size and shape rims front and back, U shape, shallower and wider on the front and V shaped, deeper for the rear. Supposedly meant to combat side winds. My Parcours Ronde do very well in crosswinds, i was out in 32mph gust the other day the steering was unaffected it was me the wind was pushing against.
I have the shimano ultegra c50. I‘m 82kg and you can definitely feel the crosswinds (especially compared to the 23mm rims I had before) but as long as you have your hands on the handlebar it’s no problem at all
Have just begun investigating carbon wheels. Didn't know there were so many lower cost options from quality manufacturers. BTW, love my Fulcrum Racing Zero aluminum wheels. Absolutely bomb proof.
I've got a set of 38mm rim brake ican wheels. They weigh 1300 grams and work good for me. I don't think you need deep section wheels personally but thats subjective. I don't think any wheels should cost over 2000 bucks but I also don't think a bike should cost over 10000 bucks. The bike industry is getting out of control with the pricing of anything bike related these days. People need to start putting their foot down and stop paying these outrageous prices on bike things. All the big name bikes are made in the same factories as the so called "Chinese carbon" bikes and yet the "Chinese carbon" is over 4 times cheaper? And guess what, the Chinese companies still make money on these products. That just shows you how greedy the big brands are these days.
I'm with Jeff, (road) tubeless sucks! :D As for the differences, the weight and the "mullet" design are two major changes, in favor of the CLX 50s. And I COMPLETELY agree that the $1,000 - $1,500 price range is the sweet spot. Along with the ones Jeff mentioned, Scribe, Hunt, Reynolds, Fast Forward, Fulcrum... all of these brands offer great wheelsets in this range.
Yeah, tubeless is too much of a hassle for road bikes. Great when it works, but when tubeless fails it's a hot mess. Rather just put a new tube in and move on
@@fkrr5 tubless very rarely fails though. After years, I've to put in a tube once between two bikes. It wasn't even a "hot mess". I simply put in a tube and went on.
I got a pair of 28mm deep lightweight alloy hoops from Hunt with aero spokes, and they're great. I live between the mountains and the ocean, so there's always tons of wind and hills not to mention terrible road surfaces, and they perform excellently year round. They're not quite as purely aero as a pair of 50s would be, but with all the strong crosswinds we get here, I don't think deeper wheels would be much fun to ride on. They were also less than a grand in CAD funny money.
Subscribed. Look forward to seeing the same test done with cheap carbon wheels versus aluminum. Comparing acceleration will be interesting too. Thanks for doing these.
I have two sets of Superteam 50mm carbon wheels. I have thousands of miles on them and I’ve had zero problems. The first set is five years old the other set is three years old.
I have some 50mm light bicycle wheels that are way less stable in crosswinds than the Enve ses 7.8 I replaced them with. The big companies really do know something about real world wind conditions.
I love these videos, especially how you're always trying to be very objective. Already waiting for that alum vs cab comparison, since I'm thinking about getting my first carbon wheelset. Also, I would like to see a comparison in tires performances, like Vittoria vs Continental, and so on.
I run an ICAN mullet 50/60 with the lighter layup. the alphas are the heaviest layup. Mine are 30mm outer width. I run a 26 up front and a 32 rear. Mine were like $800. No crosswind control issues here on windy cape cod. 140 lbs. I ride with a guy that has those Rovals and they make a magical noise going through the air. something is special about the Roval air flows.
The REAL sweet spot was that I picked up a Roval CLX 60 rear wheel from a friend when he forgot to pack his front wheel after a group ride and drove over it while backing out of the parking lot. He just bought new rims because they were insured and he gave me the rear one for free. I bought the matching front wheel from Pro's Closet for 500 bucks. A set of Rovals for the price of a set of Icans.
Great content, how about high quality aluminum wheel versus entry-level quality shallow carbon wheels? That’d be great to see how a newbie would benefit with new carbon wheels that were 35mm or less!
I’ve been using some 500$ csc wheels for over 3 yrs and I have no issues keeping up with guys on on zips and Princeton wheels and I keep up with them with no issues best 500$ spent wouldn’t spend more then 1000k for some carbon wheels to me there pretty much all the same and the gains that are gained threw those more expensive wheels probably won’t be felt by the avg rider.
At 130lbs I bought some $400 amazon carbon wheels and have over 3,500 miles on them with no issues. Rim brake style and no wear on the braking surface either. So far so good $$$
After two years my ican hubs needed to be replaced. I put some nieces hubs on and this is my second year since then. At least 20k miles on them. 10k since new hubs. I don’t race, but do long group rides and centuries. These are perfect. When I raced I had high end wheels until a crash destroyed them. Then went cheap until I retired from races.
My Cervelo came stock with DTSwiss 1600 spline alu 32mm depth. The fitter said I would be surprised and generally, I am quite happy as I am really an old dude who likes to ride and do some fondos, but the eye is always attracted to the carbon little deeper setup and the new reserve stuff (keep it in the family) is appealing. I saw the $500 carbon vs. stock alu...that isn't even an upgrade so more a stock vs. $1500 wheels that is where it is interesting.
9:15 I'd add Hunt Aerodynamicist wheels to the list of wheels in the "sweet spot." $1100, 1500 g, lifetime crash replacement, and a freehub so loud that people think you have Chris King hubs (although I think they offer a quieter option now).
Just for giggles sometime: it would be fun to see a comparison of top-of-the-line 1980s race wheels with contemporary race wheels. I know it would be really hard to do with a rear wheel because of reasons but, even if you just swapped in a front wheel. Say, a 28 hole Mavic SSC rim laced three cross with DT 15 gauge spokes to a Campy front hub with a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular mounted…
As someone who was riding in the 1980 I can assure you that quite likely the results would be that the 1980 tech is beating modern stuff. Modern construction is mainly not only about better performance but about marketing, reducing general manufacturing costs and in esp. manual labor.
Very interested in these comparison videos as I’m looking to buy my first set of carbon wheels with an eye toward getting into crit racing and possibly longer road stuff. Think you do these testing and recommendation vids better than just about anybody.
At 205 lbs and still seeing steady gains through training I have a lot of things that I can focus on before worrying about upgrading from my used Zipp 404s that I got for under $500
I've owned two sets: 55" carbon composite ($800/set) and 47" full carbon ($2k) from different, well-known brands. It's probably the extra depth and materials but the 55s were like sails. I wouldn't ride in 20mph+ gusts. The 47s are better in every regard, even a little faster. Whether that's because of the wheels themselves or my confidence, they're worth every penny.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 TLR is 1299.99$ for the front wheel. A wheelset is more expensive, more than double that price (rear wheel is more expensive than the front wheel)!
I'm not into the roadie stuff but this is good content and I think it also applies very well to mountain bike wheels. The stats, the explanations and the tech are all very familiar. Longevity is the biggest issue for mtb, especially on rocky trails but for an XC whip I dont see much difference. Nice work
very interested by your next test (alu vs carbon). Also the 1% diiference you got probably come from the weight difference only (400gr) and not the profile of the wheel itself... You should study this very smart interactive calculator which show relation between wattage, weight, Frontal area, grade of hill, wind... The tool is available by googling : "An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed"
@Norcal Cycling you should’ve had a blind test of each wheel set. I think you consciously rode the rovals harder already knowing how good of a wheel they are. Maybe placing tape over the decals or something so you wouldn’t be biased for one wheel set or the other.
I think the a fair amount of the difference between how the wheels feel in crosswinds is familiarity. You've ridden the Roval wheels long enough to know what you can ignore and what you have to account for.
got some aeolous comp5 alloy rim brake, very very good and got some elitewheels marvel coming. the middle gound is perfect. the difference to quite good aluminum wheels is not insane, but very noticable.
Well the bontragers on my new trek are medium end and can with a hop in the rim. I had the shop true it and it’s still there. So qc like you said is a thing. This winter some new wheels are in the plan.
I have the ican aero 40, which come in at 1400. I payed 700 for them shipped. The wheels feel much more stable than a 50 in a different brand I own. I choose the ican b/c of the weight and price. I'm not rich and if I was I still wouldn't pay 2500 for a wheelset. Don't forget we're adults paying lots of money for plastic toys
i have the roval cl50's. i just couldn't justify the clx cost. i can tell you now they are great and pretty bullet proof. after two hard crashes they are still going strong. after thousands of miles im wondering when I should do some maintenance to the hubs. ive added more grease to the hubs but never really taken everything apart to clean everything.
Yes mate 👏 .. thanks for the vid... looking forward to your ali vs carbon. ... obvs the weight is gonna be the biggie... literally yesterday upgraded my cx/gravel bike (wheels) desperate for some carbon but the only stock wheels i could buy were mavic cross rides think its mtb wheel but its only 900g without the cassete heads gone... bring the next vid fast fella cheers 🍻 from the british gravel champs
Definitely like the idea comparing aluminum vs carbon wheels. Especially with some acceleration stuff. Very curious to see the results! I want to know if I should get some carbon wheels or not and drop the money on them or just ride some decent aluminum wheels.
I never even noticed crosswind before when using MTB, only when shifting to road bike with 25mm tyres did it get a bit scary being blown all around the road when it got windy.
I love the idea of seeing the difference between aluminum and base level carbon wheels. IMO, the majority of riders out there aren't trying to eek out every watt of power from their rigs. They just want to ride and not get dropped from the group. In all reality, $2500 wheels are 2.5x more than the cost of the bike. There's that necessity/dollar ratio.
Last winter I got some Farsport wheels with DT350 disc brake hubs, with sapim spokes and 40x30 (24mm internal rim width) rim with complete package wieghing 1390 grams. They were something like $725 delivered. They are awesome and are bomb proof.
10 years ago I bought some Farsports 50 mm carbon wheels with their cheaper Novatec rim brake hubs. I've probably averaged between 8k and 10k kilometres each year. I weigh 72 kg so I'm no lightweight not heavyweight. Here's my experience with them: -No maintenance. -No bearing or spoke replacements. - Brake surface still sound. -No truing required. They have been a revelation.
So, redo the test except pour on the power for 15 seconds, coast for 15 seconds, repeat until course is done. :) I banged up my wheel past the point of repair back in 2021. No shop within 100 miles of me had any wheels except one place that had some 1700 dollar roval wheels. My bike new was 1900. I bought those wheels anyway just to keep riding. What a difference it made. Comfort up. Speed up. I'd always wondered how much speed could I buy with new wheels? For me, over a 50 mile ride, 1700 bucks increased my average speed by about 3 mph. I was old, fat, and slow. Now I'm old, fat, and kinda slow.
Great video - would have liked to see data for the difference in power for acceleration / climbing. I ride Zipp 303s on my Pinarello and SuperTeams on my Cannondale, and actually prefer the feel of the Superteam wheels, but it's very subjective. I am about 0.5 MPH faster at the same power on the Pinarello, but it's more than just the wheels being different between the 2 bikes.
I picked up a pair of Topolino wheels with carbon and kevlar spokes / hub with aluminum rims and the front was significantly lighter than my aero carbon wheel (no name) that I had. Best $150 I've spent on a bike part. It'd be interesting to see how a $1000-1500 wheel from the 2000s compares to a $1000-1500 wheel of the 2020s
I am thrilled with my Ryet carbon wheels for $430. They weigh just under 1600 grams and have ceramic bearings. As a non racer the idea of paying 3 to 6 times more for a premium brand is unthinkable. Only question is their durability and you can hardly test that. My other wheelset is Hunt alloy, about the same price and weight. I can't really compare their performance because the Hunts have gravel tires and the Ryets have road rubber.
New to crits.. but the lightest shallow alloys you can. Not aerodynamic, but you’ll be drafting a lot and the last 200 meters is all you need. Also, buy something you can afford to crash. Getting skinny will also help a lot. Less mass= faster acceleration
Jeff, you make a lot of valid points about the feel and aerodynamics of the more expensive wheels, but you are mistaken about weight being a factor. Rotational weight makes literally no difference whether on a climb, during a time trial, or during a crit. Now of course several pounds would make a difference, but we're only talking about 400 or 500 grams. To back up this statement, I refer you to a GCN video where they talked to an engineer who specializes in aerodynamics and he goes over everything. If you want to skip to the part about rotational weight during a crit, skip to the 10:00 mark. Again, the way the wheels perform in the wind and their aerodynamics do make very small differences, but for those spending big money on lighter wheels because they think they're buying speed, they would be better off spending it elsewhere (or ideally not spending it at all and just training harder). Here is the link: th-cam.com/video/0QDnUkUaQfk/w-d-xo.html
Weight is less of an issue if you get your wheels rolling once and go at a given speed without braking for a while. If you have to slow down and accelerate again frequently weight does matter a lot and a metric pound on the wheels makes a huge difference.
After riding alumimum entry level rims for 2 years, I bought my first carbon rim 404 fc, and then dt swiss 1100 50/62. TBH, carbon rim itself is usually very stiff, but the spoke layout, spoke building quality, and hub choices often make more differences into the equation of: whether a carbon rim rides comfortable, stiff, responsive, etc. Tire width and whether running tubeless also makes great difference. Anyways, I'd say the rim depth and inner width are the most important parameter for me when buying carbon rims, brand wise, I do prefer brands that produces reliable products. In terms of weight, it is not that important after all because when you are saving weight, brands usually trade the durability. DT180 vs DT240 is a great example as roval would rather just use DT240 on their top models than DT180.
The additional sprint power needed for 400g on the rim is single digit Watts. We can feel the inertia in our hands but it's not really a meaningful difference. And if anything the additional inertia would mean you carry (a very little) more speed as you coast.
I think the aero between wheels is firstly overrated and secondly quite misunderstood. especially cross wind stability. However the weight is something that any individual will feel. That weight is concentrated on the outside of the wheels and accelerating is what what takes the power. The only other big difference is the quality of the hub. The rolling friction is not insignificant at low speeds.
have to agree areo wheels are very much in the marginal gains and that's putting kindly and you have to be at the right angle to really make use of the sail effect and vis versa. And i have found the same with bearings which a simple roll down test confirms.
Also unfortunately Jeff just dismissed the second run entirely which showed how much time variance wind and body position changes make in a relatively flat and open course like this. I bet if he had done 3 runs with each wheelset and compared the results, the difference would not be statistically significant.
On the other hand, I love my cheap Elitewheels MARVELs, which are priced similarly to the ICANs. Would love to see a Hambini review about these or the cheaper steel spoke WInspace Lún wheelset.
Your favourite five year old #Hambini #eng
@@HUNHali Exactly, Jeff showed us leaving from the parking lot 3 times and times were within 5 seconds, and the faster run was 1W higher (0.36%) for 5 seconds faster (0.66%). The faster run (12:14) is the outlier. Why was it faster with less power
I liked the attempt to average the data, but still is not enough data to draw conclusions. One rider, one bike, one power model (constant 276w), one road, 4 samples.
Even Cam Nicholls' tests are limited.
Was that double negative in the last sentence intentional?
The good news is you can get ~50mm Chinese carbon wheels at a lot closer to 1.4kg than 1.8kg at a similar if slightly higher pricepoint. Winspace Lun 45s retail for $800, ~1450g; Farsports Kaze 45s at $770, ~1455g; LightBicycle Falcon AR46 at $700, ~1410g. 1.8kg for the ICANs just seems exceptionally heavy.
I always thought my wheels were slow then I got a power meter and just turns out I just don’t put out as much power as I thought.
Aluminum wheels vs cheap carbon sounds like a great comparison test.
Other tests ideas:
Aero handlebars vs round bars. IIRC Specialized said the most aero gains between the tarmac SL6 and SL7 was in the handlebars. It's one of the first surfaces the air hits so making it aero makes sense for maximum gains. So how much difference do aero handlebars make?
Narrow (36cm?) handlebars vs normal width bars. Seemed to be a trend for people to do this, but is it really worth it?
As someone who has switched from round bars vs. aero bars on a climbing bike (for comfort + I race stages/crits and I'm not rich so wanted some advantage over round bars) They made a world of a difference. I can get in a lot more aggressive of a position - I also added budget-ish aero wheels American classic 420 aero and they both are night and day different.
handlebar gains are really in the width. if you go from a 42 to a 38 you will definitely notice a difference in your average speed. same way tt bars give you about a 1-2mph speed boost
They just did one of those
@@sugashack7420 what is the title of the video? I can't find it
Keep in mind it is also mainly their marketing team telling you that you now need a aero handlebar...
Thank u so much jeff for creating this kinds of videos. To me as a cyclist, this helps me in budgeting my money on my bike upgrades, to know the benefits of these wheels are really a great help.
About the crosswinds. I bought a set of old, maybe cheap 52mm carbon wheels last spring and one of my first rides was through a mild storm. Of course, they would catch wind and riding was really difficult. I felt my side abs after that because I had to balance myself all the time and I wasn't used to that coming from Zwift in the winter. In the summer I bought another lighter bike which came with very light 25mm aluminum wheels from Mavic. It so happened that I rode that same bit from the other ride through another mild stormy day and there was barely any difference in catching crosswinds. I just wanted to share that because it seems that those more expensive, more RnD wheels seem to be a nice-to-have.
I didn't Even understand your point
Love these wheel testing videos. Definitely wanna see the aluminum vs entry level next :)
They won’t do it because they know , it wouldn’t have made any noticeable difference
You’ll also notice when the whole rim vs disc brakes jabber was going on. That the only valid argument was that disc stopped better in the rain, vs carbon rim brakes. But conveniently they never compared disc to aluminum rim brakes. Also knowing very few ride their bikes in the rain.
Typically the Chinese brands offer a “standard” carbon rim and a “lightweight” carbon rim. It would be interesting to see a comparison of a Rovals versus a Chinese wheel set that is the same weight at the Rovals.
I was wondering the exact same thing.
I have a pair of vision metron 40s for quite a while now and it does the job pretty well but my front wheel warped and I bought an unbranded chinese front rim as a temporary replacement and quality wise it's uncanny Idk if they're gonna hold up tho (If I'm gonna transplant the decals from my metron to the chinese rim you wouldn't be able to tell the difference lmaoo)
Vitesse Aluminum rims , very low cost
I recently upgraded from Fulcrum aluminum wheels to Roval C38 entry level carbon and the biggest immediate takeaway is the ease at maintaining speed. Can't wait to see the next vid on this!
Wait till you use some nice rim brake wheels mate.
I got a pair of Mercury S5s for my race bike early in 2019 and they've been perfect the last 3 years (9,663 miles). They're MSRP is 1200 but i got them on sale for $900. They're made in the US and honestly are a pretty nice set (1600g). I'm a low weight rider at around 140lbs and 5'4" and while crosswinds aren't fun, they're manageable. I agree with you Jeff, the 1000-1500 mark is a really good compromise. Still a chunk of money but no need to spend $2500 on a set.
Agree on the Mercury quality for value...I always question when a markdown from MSRP is so large, but as a non-racer I took the value and found a wonderful difference from my stock aluminum wheelset on my Giant Defy.
DT Swiss PR 1600 32mm deep, about as fantastic prebuilt alloy wheelset you can get. I've been dropping carbon boys on my pair for over a year now.
I’ve been riding with ICan since 2020 on my TT bike. I’ve done 3 70.3 races with them among other races and long rides. I paid $800 for my wheels and I’ve had no significant issues with them.
Great video. I was researching upgrading my wheels but I don’t think I need to after watching this :)
Would've been interesting to see a blind test.
Yes! blindfolded Jeff riding 5 miles is the next Video!
but actually... i'm trying to figure out a way to safely do this. open to hearing any suggestions! In this case even peaking down once at the FAT clx50 front rim would immediately give it away.
@@NorCalCycling tape a cardboard box to your handlebars so you can't see the front wheel
@@NorCalCycling a blacked out Elizabethan collar, maybe...🤣
Just don’t look down? 😂
I'd love to see an aluminum vs. cheap carbon wheel test. I'm looking at buying a set of wheels for group road rides/races that will go on my gravel bike. Great job with the videos! gearing up mentally to jump back into road racing after years away, and the strategy and play-by-play videos are excellent. cheers!
I can tell you that I have a 38mm set of Super Team chinese carbon wheels on my road bike that I paid less than $300 for and I've got about 10,000 miles on them and they are still super true and look great. They have several different depths and color choices, and their customer service is great. But read all the reviews for yourself and you'll see. You can buy them right from Amazon or you can wait and buy them from China. But you won't be disappointed.
@@shepshape2585 those superteam wheels are also made and sold by many other Chinese sellers without decals and I have 1 set that feels and rides as if it's bombproof. It's heavy yes but feels extremely solid and have not needed to true yet and I hammer it hard on ramps and under pass bridges.
I will say this...light wheels isn't always better, for the non racers out there whose weight is heavy I strongly suggest to not purchase super light wheels...
Cheap carbon vs. High end aluminum
No problems from my cheap $500 Chinese wheels
Aluminum versus CF wheels for amateur posers.
These are interesting videos. Back in my day we used to do this kind of test coasting down a hill and timing our runs (to test TT position). We didn’t have power meters so it was a good way to do multiple runs consistently
Now the quality and dedication is grown so much on this channel. Amazing shoots, thanks for that! Enjoying your channel even more!!!
I went from aluminum wheels to low end carbon and felt a massive improvement. I got slightly less cheap carbon wheels this past year ($469 60mm rim wheels from Elite) and I also switched to TPU tubes and I noticed a big change for the better. I'm on my third set of cheap carbon wheels in a 6-ish year period, but I think if I was using disc wheels I would have invested in something in the 800-1000 range.
Same
Placebo effect BS for amateur posers. 😀
I'm thinking about going carbon but three sets in a six year period is way more than I want to spend
Yeah it's a tough choice :(
For the subjective attributes and the real-world race performance, have you considered doing a "blind taste test" at your Alviso criteriums? Tape over the logos and have a friend mount a random pair to your bike (don't look too closely!). Do that for a couple races, and at the very end, have your friend reveal what was what. Much less sciencey, but it would be thoroughly entertaining!
Unfortunately, the freehub sound and especially the weight, will most likely give away very quickly what wheel you are riding...
IO was thinking the same thing! You can easily be swayed even if you think you are not. Simply knowing which wheels are which during the test can influence how you think they "feel". I would for sure have them taped up and hidden by the other guy and do 4 runs the same without knowing which wheels are which.
@@l.d.t.6327 How do you expect to feel the wheels by the weight while riding? You won't notice this difference at all.
@@michadebicki6534 I switched wheels this year and new set is about 400g lighter and you can easily notice the difference
@@michadebicki6534 it is easy to tell that much difference in weight
For me the biggest hesitation in going with the lower-end option is always the quality control, reliability and durability issues. In addition, the warranty (breakage) is also always a big factor. If I only had $500 to spend I would likely try to find the highest quality aluminum wheels I could at that price.
This guy gets it. $500 wheels are great on any given day... Until they take you to the dentist.
@@robertradowick380 this was always my fear. descending at 40 mph and a wheel goes pop. I have more trust in my zipp or enve even if i might have heavily overpaid....
@@toshman696969 It's easy to move wheels from bike to bike. Makes sense to buy something that will last.
There are some nice aero aluminium wheels out there for a cheaper budget however it’s the weight which lets these down
I agree, I've an expensive set of carbon wheels, two events missed due to the freehub failing, and a broken spoke on the front wheel after ~ 2000km. Quality is worth it
I weigh 200lb and even though I have owned several carbon wheelsets in the past, I have found that a sturdy aluminum wheelset has been my best option.
I also don't race and have zero KOMs 😂
It is still awesome to have you out on the roads on a bike :)
Thanks for the hard work minimizing the variables to quite the duchess. Thanks for all the preproduction and post-production work. Great video 👍
I’d love to see a comparison of low-end carbon versus aluminum. I’m currently mulling over that decision.
Go alu. It's a nobrainer.
I went from a heavy shimano wheel to superteam carbon wheels, i paid just over 400 with tax, best bike upgrade I’ve ever done
The compatibility of the rim to tire size could at least partially explain the increased drag and lower stability of the ICAN. To maintain smooth flow around the airfoil shape especially in crosswinds, the rim should be larger than the tire (105% as large ideally). In this test, the Roval CLX50 is 29.4mm wide, while the ICAN Alpha 50 is 24.8mm. It seems that both were tested with a Grand Prix 5000 28mm tire, which is a much better aerodynamic fit for the Roval.
More expensive brands like Roval were quicker to implement wider rims, but now budget brands are catching up and you can get $500 wheelsets that are 28 or 29mm wide.
Stock aluminum wheels vs upgraded alloy vs up to $1500 carbon would be good, too.
Rationale: HED Ardennes alloy wheel for $900 vs a $1200ish carbon setup would be very close, though you’d have to pick between a low profile or deeper carbon wheel depending whether you’re trying to capture aero benefits of entry carbon vs high end alloy
All metals used in the bike industry are alloy.
noticed that the disc rotors used are different. some rotors dissipate heat quicker by generating more turbulence which creates aerodynamic drag. might want to keep that as a constant.
I love how you followed the natural progression of cost basis Vs needs Vs wanting to buy slightly higher end wheels. The fact you end up in exactly the same place as I did $1k to $1,500 is reassuring. A few companies have wheels on sale in that price range and some even have great warranties. Excellent review & thanks for all the great info.
Late to the party, but super interesting! What I'm taking from this is lighter / more expensive wheels for crits where you're constantly slowing down and speeding up and need to accelerate over and over, and heavier / cheaper wheels for TT or flat-ish triathlons where you're riding at a relatively constant speed throughout. In fact heavier wheels will make it easier to maintain a higher speed, if the weight is in the rims anyway....
I have three sets ICANs. A disc, rim brake set and a fixie set. I live in a high cross and headwind area. These are 40's in front and 50's in the back. I've been very happy with them so far and average 7,000 miles a year. They come with quality bearings. I've been in two 25 mph bike race crashes and the wheels survived better than I did.
Rolling weight does affect acceleration, without a doubt.
I am heavy rider live in hilly region. One difference is after a super heavy steep hill descent. The cheaper wheel will have slight off on the rotor causing some rotor rubbing, but as it gets cooler later on it resume back. Not sure if that is just the stress on the hub it can't handle or is it the heat. I had a lot of hills here that needs this type of braking effort to bring it to a stop.
Thanks so much for making this! It was definitely highly requested in the comment section of previous videos by many :)
Yes! Testing alu / carbon would be very cool! I have the Giant Contend AR 1 which I always explain to people as the alu endurance version of the TCR. (I know that's not correct and it's a lot closer to the giant defy but it looks a bit like older alu TCR's). So I would love to see a comparison between alu/cf bikes.
I can attest to those crosswinds when you are 130lb rider, although I'm not a new rider. I have a pair of Reynolds 50mm wheels and even those give me a fit in the crosswinds. I would love to see how a good pair of Zipps or even the Shimano ones do out on the road.
303s measure pretty poorly with crosswinds, i know that. There is a trend coming up the ranks of different size and shape rims front and back, U shape, shallower and wider on the front and V shaped, deeper for the rear. Supposedly meant to combat side winds. My Parcours Ronde do very well in crosswinds, i was out in 32mph gust the other day the steering was unaffected it was me the wind was pushing against.
I have the shimano ultegra c50. I‘m 82kg and you can definitely feel the crosswinds (especially compared to the 23mm rims I had before) but as long as you have your hands on the handlebar it’s no problem at all
Have just begun investigating carbon wheels. Didn't know there were so many lower cost options from quality manufacturers. BTW, love my Fulcrum Racing Zero aluminum wheels. Absolutely bomb proof.
I've got a set of 38mm rim brake ican wheels. They weigh 1300 grams and work good for me. I don't think you need deep section wheels personally but thats subjective. I don't think any wheels should cost over 2000 bucks but I also don't think a bike should cost over 10000 bucks. The bike industry is getting out of control with the pricing of anything bike related these days. People need to start putting their foot down and stop paying these outrageous prices on bike things. All the big name bikes are made in the same factories as the so called "Chinese carbon" bikes and yet the "Chinese carbon" is over 4 times cheaper? And guess what, the Chinese companies still make money on these products. That just shows you how greedy the big brands are these days.
I'm with Jeff, (road) tubeless sucks! :D As for the differences, the weight and the "mullet" design are two major changes, in favor of the CLX 50s. And I COMPLETELY agree that the $1,000 - $1,500 price range is the sweet spot. Along with the ones Jeff mentioned, Scribe, Hunt, Reynolds, Fast Forward, Fulcrum... all of these brands offer great wheelsets in this range.
Yeah, tubeless is too much of a hassle for road bikes. Great when it works, but when tubeless fails it's a hot mess. Rather just put a new tube in and move on
@@fkrr5 tubless very rarely fails though. After years, I've to put in a tube once between two bikes. It wasn't even a "hot mess". I simply put in a tube and went on.
I got a pair of 28mm deep lightweight alloy hoops from Hunt with aero spokes, and they're great. I live between the mountains and the ocean, so there's always tons of wind and hills not to mention terrible road surfaces, and they perform excellently year round. They're not quite as purely aero as a pair of 50s would be, but with all the strong crosswinds we get here, I don't think deeper wheels would be much fun to ride on. They were also less than a grand in CAD funny money.
Subscribed. Look forward to seeing the same test done with cheap carbon wheels versus aluminum. Comparing acceleration will be interesting too. Thanks for doing these.
I like your Wheel testing videos so much, i need a new pair and your videos help me to decide what I need and what not, thank You!
I have two sets of Superteam 50mm carbon wheels. I have thousands of miles on them and I’ve had zero problems. The first set is five years old the other set is three years old.
Superteams....yup have set as well...fast wheels, but my rear makes noise like the spoke tension isn't right even though they have been checked
superteams are the best cheap wheels. I use those at crit racings and they feel good
@@poxm ll be my next upgrade
I have some 50mm light bicycle wheels that are way less stable in crosswinds than the Enve ses 7.8 I replaced them with. The big companies really do know something about real world wind conditions.
If I want a 50 mm deep front rim, it's DT Swiss ARC or nothing for me. This may be the only expensive brand I'd be willing to buy.
I love these videos, especially how you're always trying to be very objective. Already waiting for that alum vs cab comparison, since I'm thinking about getting my first carbon wheelset. Also, I would like to see a comparison in tires performances, like Vittoria vs Continental, and so on.
I run an ICAN mullet 50/60 with the lighter layup. the alphas are the heaviest layup. Mine are 30mm outer width. I run a 26 up front and a 32 rear. Mine were like $800. No crosswind control issues here on windy cape cod. 140 lbs. I ride with a guy that has those Rovals and they make a magical noise going through the air. something is special about the Roval air flows.
Very solid advice at the end. As all cyclist, I always get the urge to upgrade but I like spending the luxury upgrades on tech instead.
Jeff, Jeff! Rule 49: Keep the rubber side down.
Wheels are easier to change with the bike the right way up!
The REAL sweet spot was that I picked up a Roval CLX 60 rear wheel from a friend when he forgot to pack his front wheel after a group ride and drove over it while backing out of the parking lot. He just bought new rims because they were insured and he gave me the rear one for free. I bought the matching front wheel from Pro's Closet for 500 bucks. A set of Rovals for the price of a set of Icans.
Great content, how about high quality aluminum wheel versus entry-level quality shallow carbon wheels? That’d be great to see how a newbie would benefit with new carbon wheels that were 35mm or less!
I’ve been using some 500$ csc wheels for over 3 yrs and I have no issues keeping up with guys on on zips and Princeton wheels and I keep up with them with no issues best 500$ spent wouldn’t spend more then 1000k for some carbon wheels to me there pretty much all the same and the gains that are gained threw those more expensive wheels probably won’t be felt by the avg rider.
At 130lbs I bought some $400 amazon carbon wheels and have over 3,500 miles on them with no issues. Rim brake style and no wear on the braking surface either. So far so good $$$
After two years my ican hubs needed to be replaced. I put some nieces hubs on and this is my second year since then. At least 20k miles on them. 10k since new hubs. I don’t race, but do long group rides and centuries. These are perfect. When I raced I had high end wheels until a crash destroyed them. Then went cheap until I retired from races.
Would be really cool to see an aluminium wheels like the Campagnolo Zonda !
Excellent topic, and excellent video. Yes, please do the carbon vs aluminum video next, for all of the tech nerds out there 😄
My Cervelo came stock with DTSwiss 1600 spline alu 32mm depth. The fitter said I would be surprised and generally, I am quite happy as I am really an old dude who likes to ride and do some fondos, but the eye is always attracted to the carbon little deeper setup and the new reserve stuff (keep it in the family) is appealing. I saw the $500 carbon vs. stock alu...that isn't even an upgrade so more a stock vs. $1500 wheels that is where it is interesting.
Or maybe Specialized are just ripping us off with $10k bikes and $2k wheels...
9:15 I'd add Hunt Aerodynamicist wheels to the list of wheels in the "sweet spot." $1100, 1500 g, lifetime crash replacement, and a freehub so loud that people think you have Chris King hubs (although I think they offer a quieter option now).
I can vouch for the durability of Ican wheels. I’ve crashed mine hard twice and they’re still fine
Just for giggles sometime: it would be fun to see a comparison of top-of-the-line 1980s race wheels with contemporary race wheels. I know it would be really hard to do with a rear wheel because of reasons but, even if you just swapped in a front wheel. Say, a 28 hole Mavic SSC rim laced three cross with DT 15 gauge spokes to a Campy front hub with a Vittoria Corsa CX tubular mounted…
As someone who was riding in the 1980 I can assure you that quite likely the results would be that the 1980 tech is beating modern stuff. Modern construction is mainly not only about better performance but about marketing, reducing general manufacturing costs and in esp. manual labor.
I have a set of gravel carbon wheels from Scribe! I love them! Oh, and they are half the price of my Roval CLX 32s.
Very interested in these comparison videos as I’m looking to buy my first set of carbon wheels with an eye toward getting into crit racing and possibly longer road stuff. Think you do these testing and recommendation vids better than just about anybody.
Hunt 34 Aero Wide Disc Alloy - AMAZING set of alloy wheels! Woudl be cool to see how these stack up against cheap carbons.
I look forward to your AL vs C comparison.
At 205 lbs and still seeing steady gains through training I have a lot of things that I can focus on before worrying about upgrading from my used Zipp 404s that I got for under $500
I've owned two sets: 55" carbon composite ($800/set) and 47" full carbon ($2k) from different, well-known brands. It's probably the extra depth and materials but the 55s were like sails. I wouldn't ride in 20mph+ gusts. The 47s are better in every regard, even a little faster. Whether that's because of the wheels themselves or my confidence, they're worth every penny.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the Bontrager Aeolus RSL 51 TLR is 1299.99$ for the front wheel. A wheelset is more expensive, more than double that price (rear wheel is more expensive than the front wheel)!
I'm not into the roadie stuff but this is good content and I think it also applies very well to mountain bike wheels. The stats, the explanations and the tech are all very familiar. Longevity is the biggest issue for mtb, especially on rocky trails but for an XC whip I dont see much difference. Nice work
"I'm not into the roadie stuff "
*SKIP*
I need this comparison! Looking forward to it!
I wonder how the Elite-wheels of 1150,- stack up against these rovals. I have the gravel Drive version, and they feel fantastic.
Hunt wheels are also awesome for great quality, aero, heaps of width, spoke (Alloy or Carbon) and bearing options and moderate prices...
Were you get this 50 mm deep 1800 g heavy ican wheels??? The wheels i see on the web side are all around 1500 or less...
very interested by your next test (alu vs carbon). Also the 1% diiference you got probably come from the weight difference only (400gr) and not the profile of the wheel itself... You should study this very smart interactive calculator which show relation between wattage, weight, Frontal area, grade of hill, wind... The tool is available by googling : "An interactive model-based calculator of cycling power vs. speed"
That instability he was experiencing in the crosswind would have slowed him some too
@Norcal Cycling you should’ve had a blind test of each wheel set. I think you consciously rode the rovals harder already knowing how good of a wheel they are. Maybe placing tape over the decals or something so you wouldn’t be biased for one wheel set or the other.
All tests were performed at the same power
I think the a fair amount of the difference between how the wheels feel in crosswinds is familiarity. You've ridden the Roval wheels long enough to know what you can ignore and what you have to account for.
got some aeolous comp5 alloy rim brake, very very good and got some elitewheels marvel coming. the middle gound is perfect. the difference to quite good aluminum wheels is not insane, but very noticable.
+1 Make the Aluminum vs. Entry level Carbon vid Jeff. Also open to any middle tier value for money aluminum wheels
love these comparisons of somewhat affordable gear and luxury items!
Well the bontragers on my new trek are medium end and can with a hop in the rim. I had the shop true it and it’s still there. So qc like you said is a thing. This winter some new wheels are in the plan.
the wheels are the newer rapide clx and not the clx50, right?
Very curious about acceleration tests!
I have the ican aero 40, which come in at 1400. I payed 700 for them shipped. The wheels feel much more stable than a 50 in a different brand I own. I choose the ican b/c of the weight and price. I'm not rich and if I was I still wouldn't pay 2500 for a wheelset. Don't forget we're adults paying lots of money for plastic toys
i have the roval cl50's. i just couldn't justify the clx cost. i can tell you now they are great and pretty bullet proof. after two hard crashes they are still going strong. after thousands of miles im wondering when I should do some maintenance to the hubs. ive added more grease to the hubs but never really taken everything apart to clean everything.
CL versión I guess are far better that CLX. At least in real life not on the paper, no need to upgrade.
Yes mate 👏 .. thanks for the vid... looking forward to your ali vs carbon. ... obvs the weight is gonna be the biggie... literally yesterday upgraded my cx/gravel bike (wheels) desperate for some carbon but the only stock wheels i could buy were mavic cross rides think its mtb wheel but its only 900g without the cassete heads gone... bring the next vid fast fella cheers 🍻 from the british gravel champs
Definitely like the idea comparing aluminum vs carbon wheels. Especially with some acceleration stuff. Very curious to see the results! I want to know if I should get some carbon wheels or not and drop the money on them or just ride some decent aluminum wheels.
I don’t race but I bought some ULTEGRA C36 carbon wheels and love them.
Running them on my Specialized Roubaix Comp 2021 👍🏻
I never even noticed crosswind before when using MTB, only when shifting to road bike with 25mm tyres did it get a bit scary being blown all around the road when it got windy.
I love the idea of seeing the difference between aluminum and base level carbon wheels. IMO, the majority of riders out there aren't trying to eek out every watt of power from their rigs. They just want to ride and not get dropped from the group. In all reality, $2500 wheels are 2.5x more than the cost of the bike. There's that necessity/dollar ratio.
Last winter I got some Farsport wheels with DT350 disc brake hubs, with sapim spokes and 40x30 (24mm internal rim width) rim with complete package wieghing 1390 grams. They were something like $725 delivered. They are awesome and are bomb proof.
10 years ago I bought some Farsports 50 mm carbon wheels with their cheaper Novatec rim brake hubs.
I've probably averaged between 8k and 10k kilometres each year. I weigh 72 kg so I'm no lightweight not heavyweight.
Here's my experience with them:
-No maintenance.
-No bearing or spoke replacements.
- Brake surface still sound.
-No truing required.
They have been a revelation.
@@The123fiona Awesome. Yes great stuff.
with the Rovals you also get their warranty and crash replacement, AFAIK ican doesn't have crash replacement.
So, redo the test except pour on the power for 15 seconds, coast for 15 seconds, repeat until course is done. :)
I banged up my wheel past the point of repair back in 2021. No shop within 100 miles of me had any wheels except one place that had some 1700 dollar roval wheels. My bike new was 1900. I bought those wheels anyway just to keep riding. What a difference it made. Comfort up. Speed up. I'd always wondered how much speed could I buy with new wheels? For me, over a 50 mile ride, 1700 bucks increased my average speed by about 3 mph. I was old, fat, and slow. Now I'm old, fat, and kinda slow.
Great video - would have liked to see data for the difference in power for acceleration / climbing. I ride Zipp 303s on my Pinarello and SuperTeams on my Cannondale, and actually prefer the feel of the Superteam wheels, but it's very subjective. I am about 0.5 MPH faster at the same power on the Pinarello, but it's more than just the wheels being different between the 2 bikes.
I picked up a pair of Topolino wheels with carbon and kevlar spokes / hub with aluminum rims and the front was significantly lighter than my aero carbon wheel (no name) that I had. Best $150 I've spent on a bike part.
It'd be interesting to see how a $1000-1500 wheel from the 2000s compares to a $1000-1500 wheel of the 2020s
I am thrilled with my Ryet carbon wheels for $430. They weigh just under 1600 grams and have ceramic bearings. As a non racer the idea of paying 3 to 6 times more for a premium brand is unthinkable. Only question is their durability and you can hardly test that. My other wheelset is Hunt alloy, about the same price and weight. I can't really compare their performance because the Hunts have gravel tires and the Ryets have road rubber.
Let's see a carbon handlebar stem vs stock comparison video!
New to crits.. but the lightest shallow alloys you can. Not aerodynamic, but you’ll be drafting a lot and the last 200 meters is all you need. Also, buy something you can afford to crash. Getting skinny will also help a lot. Less mass= faster acceleration
Jeff, you make a lot of valid points about the feel and aerodynamics of the more expensive wheels, but you are mistaken about weight being a factor. Rotational weight makes literally no difference whether on a climb, during a time trial, or during a crit. Now of course several pounds would make a difference, but we're only talking about 400 or 500 grams. To back up this statement, I refer you to a GCN video where they talked to an engineer who specializes in aerodynamics and he goes over everything. If you want to skip to the part about rotational weight during a crit, skip to the 10:00 mark. Again, the way the wheels perform in the wind and their aerodynamics do make very small differences, but for those spending big money on lighter wheels because they think they're buying speed, they would be better off spending it elsewhere (or ideally not spending it at all and just training harder). Here is the link:
th-cam.com/video/0QDnUkUaQfk/w-d-xo.html
Weight is less of an issue if you get your wheels rolling once and go at a given speed without braking for a while. If you have to slow down and accelerate again frequently weight does matter a lot and a metric pound on the wheels makes a huge difference.
@@einundsiebenziger5488 Watch the video
After riding alumimum entry level rims for 2 years, I bought my first carbon rim 404 fc, and then dt swiss 1100 50/62. TBH, carbon rim itself is usually very stiff, but the spoke layout, spoke building quality, and hub choices often make more differences into the equation of: whether a carbon rim rides comfortable, stiff, responsive, etc. Tire width and whether running tubeless also makes great difference.
Anyways, I'd say the rim depth and inner width are the most important parameter for me when buying carbon rims, brand wise, I do prefer brands that produces reliable products. In terms of weight, it is not that important after all because when you are saving weight, brands usually trade the durability. DT180 vs DT240 is a great example as roval would rather just use DT240 on their top models than DT180.
The additional sprint power needed for 400g on the rim is single digit Watts. We can feel the inertia in our hands but it's not really a meaningful difference. And if anything the additional inertia would mean you carry (a very little) more speed as you coast.
Great idea about carbon vs aluminium test. Just what I need to select my next new bike
Interesting how the Roval with the the wider rim sides violates the Rule of 105, commonly thought to rule the interface between tire and rim.
Favorite cycling channel on TH-cam. Keep up the awesome work!!
Just to clear something in the video, 9:58 that's the price only for the front wheel. The whole wheelset is around 2500$
Not always about need, or does it improve performance, sometimes, it just feels wonderful to have the best, and know it.