Real World TEST: How Quickly Does The Rivian R1T Charge?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- ( tfl-studios.com/ ) Check out our new spot to find ALL our content, from news to videos and our podcasts! What is the Rivian R1T like to charge up in the real world? Tommy finds out in this test!
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#Rivian #R1T #Charging
15:00 I think that you might be approaching this problem backward. The question isn't "How long does it take to get from XX% to XX%?" The question is, "How much range (driving time) can I add XX minutes?" On road trips, there are three common break types: 1) Bathroom/Drink/Snack, 2) Meals, and 3) Overnight Stays. The first is typically 15 minutes or less, the second is typically 30 to 40 minutes, and the third is typically 8 to 10 hours.
As far as comfort levels are concerned, I would test from two levels: 10% battery and 50% battery. The first will normally represent a low fuel warning. The second will represent random stops for a bio break, meal, excursion, etc.
Combining the two factors would let you see how much can be added given different trip expectations and stop types. A bathroom break at low, a bathroom break at 50%. A meal break at low, a meal break at 50%. And the final question is, can it charge to full when spending the night at a hotel/motel with onsite L2 AC charging (typically 30 A to 32 A).
This is really a better assessment of the charge capabilities. My concern would be the actual usefulness of an off-road truck that’s electric. The concept is good but once you drive 50-75 miles away from the nearest gas, having a jerry can with 5 gallons gives a little peace of mind.
I do agree with what you said though, having taken my truck on road trips, what you suggested is a very true to life test.
@@felixfigueroa4036 The biggest adjustment people will need to make with EVs is how they use their energy differently than a gas truck. Just as it's been recently proven that EVs actually last longer when stranded on a frozen freeway than gas cars, when you're off roading, you're generally burning through "fuel" much slower than you would be in a gas car. The low-speed driving means most of these upcoming EV trucks could drive for hundreds of miles on low-speed dirt and gravel roads without ever needing to charge up.
@@newscoulomb3705 I understand your thinking but it's a touch flawed; the reason EVs proved to be more "efficient" or longer lasting when stuck in that frozen traffic jam is because they weren't "running" at all. They're only powering the climate control while sitting still. BUT if your EV is slow crawling or off roading, which requires the motors to move, they absolutely will use as much comparable juice as a gas vehicle doing the same slow crawl torque work to move similar weight. Just physics. Moving weight uses power. Sitting still in an EV, isn't running the motors.
@@rono33 This isn't correct. EVs are more efficient than ICEVs at all points, including off roading and rock crawling. No matter what, ICE vehicles always have about 70% to 80% "overhead" in that that much of their fuel is wasted as noise, vibration, and heat. Now, of the remaining ~25% of the energy that can be used for movement, their power trains are at least 20% less efficient than an EV reduction gear. An EV off roader will outlast an ICE off roader with an equivalent base range every time.
@@newscoulomb3705 I don’t mean to say that EVs are not as or more efficient, but you say EVs can go off-roading for “hundreds of miles” and connected that idea with the “proof” from the frozen traffic jam where they EVs weren’t really running or moving, which certainly does make them even more efficient in that sense, but EVs rated for 300-350 miles often lose about 15% of that real world tests due to their own types of losses, and that’s under very ideal conditions and opportunities of regen breaking, I don’t see how you can assume that the same EV‘s can go “hundreds” of miles off roading which is in fact less efficient (more work) on any power train. They may be more efficient, but until they get bigger batteries they are not going hundreds of miles off roading.
Thank you for creating TFLEV. I am looking forward to every video you put out. This one is great! A few things - Electrify America stations don't always deliver what they advertise. A 350kw station may never deliver over 150kw. I would look into this station and see if there's an issue. Second - A real world test would be to set a destination that is far beyond the trucks capacity and let the truck tell you where to stop and how much to charge. That's how nearly every EV owner drives their car.
Regarding Rivian receiving 73kwh but EA dispensing 84kwh, that’s from other processes that need electrons during charging (temp management, water cooled EA cable, etc). Tom Maloughney last month dedicated a video to this loss on his TH-cam channel. I consider him the charging Guru. Also, 10-80% would be great.
10-80% or 10-70% is a much better judge for travel time. I understand non-EV drivers being afraid, but they would quickly adapt and learn to trust the information given to them and feel comfortable lowering their expected arrival charge down to ~5-10%. Using a 20-80 charging curve will be a worthless metric that you do not want to be stuck with long term for TFLEV
@@shawnp4840 I agree that 10% - 70/80% would be good. Not sure I would call 20-80 “worthless” however. I would also be curious about the 80%-100%. My Audi eTron charges extremely fast to 100% because of it’s battery management system. I wonder how Rivian would compare to that.
But it's WAY more efficient than an internal combustion engine... From the AAA
Sadly, even with regular car maintenance such as a tune-up or an oil change, today's gasoline engines are only around 30 to 35 percent efficient, which means roughly 65 cents out of every dollar you spend on gas goes to waste.
I don't know, 11 kWh in 40 min seems like a LOT of power loss, something else is going on IMO.
Riviant say charging to 70 % is best for battery life and as shown battery is not happy while charging beyond ;) Great content Tommy. Also video with farm work, briliant. Waiting for range test, and off road if allowed ;)
Have you watched any of Bjorn Nyland's Range tests at 90 km/h (56 mph) and 120km/h (75 mph) and 1000 km (621 miles) time challenge tests? His methods seem to give fairly relevant real world results, so doing similar tests could be interesting. He also records the tyres used, temperature and precipitation as these can also affect range.
Bjorn is probably the best EV youtuber.
Good point...
Can you also do the Banana Box test👍😂
These guys won't work that hard lol. Would be nice though
Bjorn is brilliant, but his test is too taxing on his body so nobody is doing so…
@@Alex-is-a-daddy they have multiple people at tfl and it's just a 10-11 hour day. If not they could at least do the 120/90 tests
I just posted about this over on the Rivian forums, but wanted to mention it here too. I think you may have been hitting the same 350A charge limit that I hit during my 4000 mile Model S Plaid road trip with a CCS adapter. Some stations seemed to cap at 350A instead of the 500A CCS is capable of providing, and it seems to be a charge station manufacturer/software quirk. I DM'd TFL a recommended EVgo station near the EA one they used as a place to test/compare, since it has the brand new Signet units, which consistently gave me 500A during my trip. The Plaid and R1T have shockingly similar SoC/voltage profiles, and my curves were identical to this test when the station only gave 350A.
This. Hitting 151kW mid-curve makes total sense with a 350A limit on a 450V peak system.
I live in Australia..
I have a 1986 928 Porsche.. I just pull up to a petrol pump.. fill up and drive away.. and leave all the electric vehicles owners watching Netflix, whilst waiting.. for charging..
2.000 miles road trip, I get there a day before, and sit at the Bar Waiting.. 🤣
@@graemejohnson9025 Now imagine you have an economy car that will do the same thing for 1/2 the price in fuel costs and will be in the shop less than a 1/4 of the time the Porsche is. Factor in the savings of purchase price, parts, labor, tabs, insurance and taxi rides to and from a repair shop for having a hybrid economy vehicle and you are a winner. ;).
I have a 1964 1/2 Ford Mustang. It is a lovely, fun, old car. You couldn't convince me to drive it 2000 miles if gas was free. Thanks for saving us a seat at the bar, though.
@@WW-wf8tu ah that’s the funny thing.. my neighbour has a 10 year old Tesla, and he has been quoted 22 thousand dollars for a new battery..
My Porsche is 35 years old.. and I have spent only 8 thousand dollars for a engine balance and blueprinted.. in 35 years.. so? If the Tesla was 35 years old, it would have needed 2 battery replacement, so that is 44 thousand dollars..
Include the e waste of the old batteries.. and what you paid for battery change..
I haven’t spent 44 thousand dollars on Gasoline in 35 years.. you are being conned..
So I just did a quick calculation: based on your numbers, Tommy, it took you 41 minutes and $26.66 to gain 160 miles of range. I just Googled the average price of gasoline in Denver currently, and for regular grade I got $3.207 per gallon. My 2016 4Runner, which is certainly not renowned for excellent fuel efficiency, gets about 20 mpg average in mixed driving. So based on those numbers it would require 8 gallons of gasoline to get the same 160 miles of range, at a cost of $25.66. That's not only modestly cheaper, but the fill would've taken me 1/4 of the time and is widely available. A full fill of the 23 gallon fuel tank in my 4Runner would likely take 1/10 the time of an actual full charge of the R1T, I could obtain it basically anywhere, and I'd get about 450 miles of range from the fill. Until electric vehicles become more convenient (measured in time to charge and availability of charging) AND cheaper to "fuel", with a purchase price that is at least as low or less than their gasoline-burning equivalents, they just simply will not gain a foothold beyond the current purchaser demographic of those who can afford to be more concerned about image and/or environmental impact than they are of convenience and cost. One of the prime reasons EV's have the very modest support they currently have is that they are being hugely subsidized by government financial support, and that's not going to last forever, either.
We own a bolt and you are correct, the ONLY way to make an EV cheaper is to charge at home.
People need to understand that EV's are not for heavy commute drivers or road trips. If you just drive 50 miles a day then EV's are fine since you will charge at home. Also charging at home is cheaper than using these stations. It cost 0.31 kw to charge in a public charger. At home it would cost closer to 1/3 of that, for me example it's 0.12 cent kw.
With solar I think we pay 8 cents per kwh. And with the 220 V I can wake up everyday with 250 miles of range @80%. so it ends up being a lot cheaper. And to charge at a Tesla station I think it was about $6-8
@@projectedwinbrito I think people understand but politicians who are trying to force these on people don't understand
HI i know you said they don't compare you are right but this is a luxury/performance truck so the efficiency is not the best it could be it's a heavy truck but with than 700 hp you would have to compare the RAM TRX running cost it's like comparing a Toyota PIUS an a Mercedes Benz S class I personally have a e Golf and my running cost is way lower that a Rivian but I can't tow 11000 pounds and it not 4WD and also not a truck.
suggestions:
- document charging curve from 0-100% soc, then you can calculate any charge window
- document ambient temperatures
- track battery pack temperature
- document power losses and heater/ac behaviour (pre/after battery draw)
It would be interesting to see you guys figure out what's the optimum (time wise) method for covering 1,000 miles. 20-80%, drive till back to 20%, charge; 20%-60%, drive till back to 20%, charge; etc.
I would really appreciate seeing this too
It varies by vehicle but based on other videos I have seen typically you want to charge from about 10% and only charge enough to get to your next charger with about a 10% buffer. This maximizes the charging speed as much as possible. Make sure you arrive with a warm battery pack if possible.
Yeah.. agree more test are required specially since electrics are the next step that we all need to make so, is very good & useful for any future electric customers to know as much information as possible.. Would definitely be nice to have at least another ev (SUV-Truck) like Tesla X, (GMC Hummer EV, Ford-F150 lightning).. to compare them on same trip like charging time, energy consumed, distance cowered from 80% down to 20% at about same average speed, maybe latter also do the same test again but towing a small trailer (1500-3500 lb ) again just for comparison to see how quick a tow-cargo will drain the different types of batteries on same distance or same trip in same conditions..
@@poplaurentiu4148 I think we are a long way from practical towing with an EV. Range depletes significantly. TFL towed with a model X before and it was telling. You would be ok towing a trailer full of stuff from Home Depot to your house but towing a travel trailer or something would be impossible at the moment.
The lower the state of charge the faster the battery will charge. So 0-80% will not take much more time than 20-80%.
Well done. Surprised given those conditions it didn't get above 151. Tesla still dominates here but I think the Rivian model of drive to a destination, charge overnight, then go off-roading/adventuring works fine.
That "model" only works if all your destinations are ~250 miles away and have L2 chargers.
Interesting, I'm assuming you've done mostly highway miles (may be wrong) but the truck has regenerative braking to get back power if you didn't. My 1 ton SRW diesel truck gets ~20mpg on highway not towing but can tow 17K. For 154 miles that equates to roughly 7.7 gallons of diesel which is $3.30 right now (I don't live in CA). I also have large 20" rims with somewhat aggressive tires. That's $25.41 after-tax cost. If there's no line I can put 7.7 gallons in in about 5 minutes max. pump time (summer or winter). Let me know if I missed something. I based this comparison on what I saw in the video: Rivian start miles were 61, finish miles were 215. 154 miles added at $25.42 cost (pre-tax? shown on charger) Of course if you're charging at home it will be cheaper. Instead of $0.31/kwh you'll pay perhaps $0.11-0.13, much better deal. On the road costs and "pump time" don't seem to be too good. For all the electric hype I kind of hope I missed something in my calculations.
I was thinking the same thing after watch this. I can easily get 600+ miles of range in my ecoboost f150 (36 gallon tank). Even filling with premium the EV is not much cheaper to go the same distance. Add in the time waiting for charge and it’s even worse. Not here bashing EV trucks just giving a reality check.
it depends, everyone's situation is different, level 3 charging has always been expensive, besides the cost of charging, you also need to look at maintenance, cost of insurance, etc.
More of these. I would probably run mine down to 10% but 20-80 is good info too. The stadium analogy was spot on.
Tommy I liked your charging analogy of a stadium.
In terms of cost, please include efficiency numbers and home charging costs in your area. Afterall, most people would use them primarily with far cheaper electricity and have a 80 percent charge at the start of the day. 10% is the typical re - charge point for ev users. Fwiw: it would have cost me about $7.50 to charge for 160 miles. Roughly equal to a truck that gets 80 to 90 miles per gallon.
I put in 45.35 kw last night in my bolt. My current charge rate is .11 cent a kilowatt and I got somewhere in the 150 mile range. That being said it only cost me around $4.99 range. For me, it goes up to .12 a kw during summer but it's usually a lot more efficient for me, during those times. So, I'll call it even and round up to $5 for 150 miles of driving and of course home charging. Which for me, is roughly 98-99% of yearly charging.
Please figure in Initial cost of the EV ,hardly practical.
@@jayrichards3672 spent in the area of $500 for an at home charger and have had no maintenance fees other then tires/tire rotation and in cab filter every 20k-30k miles. Just hit 100k miles. I personally feel it's been very practical coming from 15+ years of gasoline cars. For me and how I drive mine throughout the year, it's very practical
The only true number that won't change for anyone is actual consumption. If he gives consumption numbers it should be an exceedingly easy calculation for anyone wanting to see what at home charging looks like. What he pays to charge at home only matters to his neighbors. There's very little value in that data, IMO.
@@coreyallen1090 cool 😎 works for you what EV Pickup are you driving?
I would love to see the Rivian loaded with 5 adults, an ATV in the back and do a full day somewhere, then report the battery usage. Real life scenarios…
They put over 5000 lbs on a trailer and tow it up the mountain in freezing temps in another video.
Not everyone is hauling a full cab of adults and a 750 pound ATV in the back, everywhere they go. Check out their towing tests
@@therealcdnuser they have a towing video.
@@LoboLakerGaming - True, but it gives us an idea if it’s a real truck or not. Range-wise. Otherwise it’s just an exaggerated claim. I saw the Ike Gauntlet and range is still a big issue when towing.
The tried testing it in Colorado and it lost steam with 5000 lbs and couldn’t complete the mountain pass
Great video. I’m looking forward to getting my RS1 in a few years. Pulling in into a charge station at between 10% and 20% and leaving at a 80% state of charge has worked well for me on my MME . No range anxiety.
Good analysis. Suggest that these tests be standardized for a summer and winter scenario. Every EV that you guys test needs to include the 10-80% (or the 20-80%) charge times at +20C (68F) and -10C (14F), as well as cruise range and tow ranges at those 2 temps. If you guys develop that rigorous process then I think you can put together a very valuable resource for potential buyers making decisions about switching to EV from ICE.
yea cause they can control the weather and temp
Tommy, Thanks for creating this channel. I found this video very helpful in gaining a better understanding of Rivian’s charging capabilities in a realistic road trip environment. I usually limit my lowest range threshold at 15%, given current charging infrastructure challenges, so I think your test parameters makes sense. Can’t wait for more vehicle tests as a comparison to see which vehicle performs best.
This was extremely helpful.
I think the major practical and psychological barrier to true mass adoption is getting performance in a test like this to sub-20min. Even though over 90% of most consumer's driving is local, I can't see myself flipping to an EV until charging stops on a long road trip are comparable to stopping at a service station to fuel up, have a bathroom break and grab a coffee.
Many of the TH-camrs I see doing regular road trips seem to agree that the "fastest" way is to charge to about 50% and drive down as low as you are comfortable before charging. The few trips I've taken I don't worry about an exact percentage but I disconnect when my charging speed drops below 100 kW as long as I have the range to hit the next charger. I figure anything lower than that isn't worth waiting for unless you absolutely have to.
You could just do a 0-100 to see the full charge curve. From there, we could extrapolate the 10-80, 20-80, etc.
I agree
I agree
I agree..Look to Bjorn and Out of spec for the generally accepted way of presenting charging info. It will also be cool if you can grab some BMS info from the car via OBD port so we can check the pack voltage and the current limits/ temps etc.
Or as close as possible but yea, definitely agree with this situation
Yes, this!
Start at under 10% (as the R1T has a big battery) and go up to where the charging speed starts to drop (can be seen on the display of the charger or car, usually right around 80% but not precisely as it is dictated by software of the BMS, here it seems to be pretty low at 67% SoC)
Or just do a charging curve from 1 or 2% up to 100 and record the whole curve so people can extrapolate what they want to know
Awesome video. All the tech reviews of the Rivian focus so much on the Frunck and the cubby hole. It’s nice to see actually real numbers and how it affects time money and mileage. Keep it up!!!
I hope to see Rivian update the charge curve to be more aggressive. This is an extremely conservative charging profile for such a large battery. Edit: see comment from Ryan Huber - this seems like a station issue.
Electrify America seems to have a lot of issues, I'm sure it's a station issue.
Imagine living in America somewhere, that has cyclones going through.. you get home from work, electric car has low batteries..
So you plug it in for overnight charge..
Cyclones hits at the middle of the night.. you are screwed to have a car to escape..
But the old gasoline car has a full tank..
@@graemejohnson9025 imagine getting home with a low gas tank… cyclone takes out the gas station… can’t go anywhere. That’s just an oddly specific concern
@@brandenflasch but yes, you can go to any gas station, and they have an emergency hand pump, to pump fuel.. all gas stations are required to have it..
They use it to bleed gases, when the underground tank is full..
So after a cyclone, you can go to your local gas station and hand pump fuel.. the petrol pump you plug hose from into your tank.. has a hand pump built in..
@@graemejohnson9025 I’ve never once heard of any gas station having or using a hand pump
$25 for 60% charge, ouch. That’s basically gas prices.
Yeah. Road trips you are basically back to gas prices. Not a bad thing considering what peak power cost to provide and also makes sure people don’t hog the chargers or stay longer than they need to.
@@fpartidafpartida yeah and the more EV’s in the road the worse it’s going to be.
Agreed. Not to mention the wait time.
@@tonyfrese287 But there will also be more chargers. So it kind of depends how good companies are at placing equipment in areas with most demand.
That’s actually very disappointing. The ability to quickly charge from 10% to 80% is important for road trips. Could you do one of these for a Tesla at a supercharger for comparison?
Thats also one session. It would take replication at other chargers to show that its the way the rivian charges or the conditions or charger it was using
@@mattbrew11 Good point. Owners forums will let us know soon if this is normal.
@@mattbrew11 Rivian caps out a 200 kW based on the spec. For most of the charge he was getting 160+, right? Unless the R1T can charge faster than spec (which I'm not saying it can't, I don't know), we can pretty safely conclude what best case charging scenarios look like, right? Charging at an even 200 would've pushed 40 minutes down to 30 based on that just going by the numbers shared.
This was certainly impacted by outside temp/battery temp.
We'll have to see how close to 200kw it gets in warmer or even slightly warmer climates. But ..good to know for planning if you live/travel in colder areas. Also agree with comment above about other charger comparisons (Tesla).
Hard to compare apples to oranges since R1T has a much larger battery with serious off-road chops (something my Tesla can't do). With that out of the way, 20-80% on my Model Y is pretty fast on v3 supercharger. I plug in, get a bathroom break, buy a cup of coffee, and the car is ready to go. Roughly ~ 15-20 minutes. Tom Moloughney (State of Charge TH-camr) sees about 30 minutes for Model 3/Y going from 0 to 80%.
Temperature is a speed killer and if that's a pre-production model it might now have the best charging plus I bet they'll continue to improve the charging rate via over the air software updates. I love the look of the Rivian and hope it's a massive success.
It would be interesting to have the manufacturer discuss the charge curve to see if this is expected. Dropping the charge rate to 50kw when you haven’t reached 80% yet. Other folks have said that ford pushed down a change in charge rate for the Mustang due to severe decrease in charge rate above 80%
This type of test is valuable Tommy, thank you very much
Its definitely expected. You are correct about the Mach E it falls off a cliff at 80%. I think that's the right thing to do to be honest because at that point you are clogging up chargers and charging slowly. However it can be an issue if you have a long stretch without chargers.
@@davva360 I believe it slows down at 80% to protect the health of the battery. 80% should be enough to get you to most fast chargers on your route and more chargers are being built every day. I wouldn't recommend using an EV for a long distance trip if you are going somewhere with a lack of chargers on the route.
I suggest: miles added in 30 minutes (i.e. a lunch stop). Starting at 20%.
A nice simple, easy to wrap your head around number that can be compared across all brands, and takes into account car efficiency, charge speed, battery size, curves, etc...
Great video! One suggestion is including comparisons to ICE powered vehicles, like comparing the R1T's 160 miles gained for $26 with how much it would cost to fill a Tacoma with gasoline for that same 160 miles.
And what is one's time worth? Towing? 🤞Yeah, I don't feel we're anywhere close to practical acceptance of EV"s
Was just about to suggest this exact idea. Great minds think alike.
I get pretty good MPG with my Tacoma since I drive mostly highway. For simplicity sake I'll say 20 MPG which would equal about 200 miles in 10 gallons. (Real world can be better or worse). At my current local prices, 10 gallons is about $33. We'll roughly estimate 8 gallons for 160 miles, which puts me at $26.40 to fill up 160 miles of range.
But, keep in mind that it is currently winter so that's pretty optimistic for my MPG. However, it's pretty easy to out-do that in the summer.
Not to mention it would take you, what, 2 or 3 mins to put those 8 gals/160 miles in the Tacoma?
@@jayrichards3672 Drive one, you will never go back. it would be like trading your cellphone for a wall phone, I guarantee you.
Tommy. I am not sure if you came up with that analogy of a stadium and charging but it was fantastic. Props.
When you started there was just over 60 miles remaining, and when done you had about 215 remaining. The cost was around $25 to charge for only 155 miles of range. My F150 with a 3.5 eco boost over all average is 20mpg, gas is around $3.00 per gallon and it would cost me about $23 to travel the same distance, and in 5 minutes not 41.
It's a road trip cost. Charging at home would be cheaper and 95 percent of most people's charging.
but your eco boost can't charge at home, or go off-road like this one does
Before Supercharger network maturity: We used to target 20%-%80 SOC sessions. Now that there are supercharger location every ~25 miles on the highway, I can regularly skip 1 or 2 suggested charging location and push on into the single digit SOC and 'unlock' much faster charging speeds. If you cant obtain the charging session data directly, I suggest mounting a camera timelapse filming the charging session to get more granular data points.
i think 10-80 is prob the best agreed upon range. however, still would like to see 0-100 and can extrapolate from there.
I think it's great you guys started a new channel specifically for EVs! Also I do love me some good graphs, thanks Tommy/TFL crew!
Charge every vehicle that you are testing from 0-80%. We can see the charge curve. Some vehicles underperforms at 20% like tesla. They have their peak rate from 0-20. others like the mustang, ioniq5 ev6 perform better above 20 because if you start if from zero currently they overheat at 50 and slowdown. Others like audi etron (suv) have same charge rate from 0-80. No matter when you plug. So do all of then 0-80 or 5-80 and we the viewer can have an idea what to do while roadtriping
Remember this is to provide info. Not to replicate roadtriping. Also when doing range test select a speed for all test and a tempeture for all vehicles 70° due HVAC hurts every EV. Running one with different settings like off of 60° would vary the results
I really appreciate these informative sessions. Thanks for not being one of those channels that only focuses on 0-60 times. Well done, TFL!
Really useful info on what exactly to expect when charging on the road. Excellent video, super suggest you keep up with these types of vids. Maybe do an ev charge challenge
Let me start by thanking you for doing this test /report.
Consider converting your range gained from the charge to a cost-based mpg equivalent using that charging service. Not only does it speak to the efficiency of the vehicle but also the pricing of your charging service plan.
Example-
So, 160 miles gained by the charge divided by $26.66 for the charge gives you 6.00 miles per dollar. Petrol here is about $3.25 per gallon. So, $3.25 per gallon times 6.00 miles per dollar gives you an equivalent cost-based efficiency of 19.5 mpg (meh). Don't forget any monthly plan fees from your charging service brings that 19.5 down even further.
I realize we can't /shouldn't put a price on preserving mother earth. I, however, assert that the ways in which we go about it should be done with eyes (and minds) wide open. The public sharing of real-world information, like that found in this video, helps inform our decisions. The better informed we are the less likely we will be misled (regardless of intent). If I am told something as fact by the media, or by a politician, or by a policeman, or by my friends, then I feel obligated to track down and understand the truth of that 'fact'.
My main takeaway from this report is that ~40 minutes of charging can give you 2-3 hours of additional road trip drive time. This gives me a good metric for comparison. On road trips I currently need to stop for petrol every 5-6 hours. So, a 14 hour trip could take me 17 1/2 to 18 3/4 hours with the R1T.
Cheers!
My question is… most electric power companies pricing is regulated by the government in each state. How long before the government allows them to raise rates due to the higher demand due to EV usage?
Also, consider road taxes. About 25% of what we pay at the pump is various taxes, fees and trades. That has to be added to something eventually.
So in time it will cost more to travel a mile on electricity than it did on gasoline.
@@AkioWasRight Maybe by not burning so much fuel, the increase in public health will translate to lower medical costs and we won't need that extra tax money.
@@directorjustin If that were even true, that's a real stretch.
If people want to be healthier, save money and reduce emissions, people could walk. But you'll never seen a EV activist walking to work.
@@directorjustin so, you’re one of those that think EV will reduce pollution and petroleum usage. Where do you think all the plastics we use comes from? Will the entire population move to the desert to live where solar is most effective? Oh, where there is no water? Lots to think about before everyone jumps on the green wave
Tommy. Good first charging video with the Rivian R1T.
I guess Rivian does not per heat the battery when
navigated to a DC FAST charger? If not, they need to copy Tesla and get that working. For me a 4 year EV driver a 15% arrival is good for me. Some of the kwh were used in the hvac in the cab.
I have absolutely zero experience with EV'S let alone the infrastructure required to recharge them so this is definitely helpful to me!
Awesome. This is the first real charging video I have seen of the Rivian. request doing another video from 10-80 %.
Interesting range. I also initially had thought 20-80% charge. However, I used to own a Nissan LEAF. 20% was as low as I'd want to go in that vehicle. But that car only have 80 mile range max, so 20% was roughly 16 miles.
I think with vehicles with bigger batteries and longer range could go lower than 20%. I think 20-50 mile range would be plenty. 10% would give you 30+ miles. You want enough margin to make it to another charger if you need to. If they're that close, I'd let it get down to closer to 10%.
Every EV driver should drive until the car stops under its own power to see how far they can go beyond 0%. Eliminates all range anxiety forever
I've been very much looking forward to the Rivian and am glad we have some real world examples to see
Tommy, thank you! Charging curves is what many of us have been waiting for, so thank you! EPA documents say the R1T has a max of 210 kWh, so disappointing your max was 151 kWh on a 350 DC fast charger. As others have said, if you could do a 0-100 and graph it, this would give a great visual of how best to road trip. Most likely, maybe 5%-60%. This is really where the Max pack would be better as you could potentially get ~ 51 more miles in that same 5-60% charging session. Also, disappointing is that the Rivian does not have the software to prep the battery in anticipation of stopping to charge.
It's 210 kW* and 151kW*. kWh is the stored energy unit and kW the energy rate.
Rivian is supposed to send out an update to allow the max 210 kw. I saw an article about it recently.
Rivian is updating software currently. Chill
Do you know if there are plans for charging stations that mirror a gas station? A place with covered place to charge, restrooms and convenient store. Maybe a place that has EV charging on one side of the retail building and the gas pumps on the other? I think that would make EV driving more appealing for road trips.
The infrastructure is going to develop, no doubt about it.
Hey Rivian engineer, "What's the battery size?" I'm NOT allowed to say! EPA rated at 316! Actually, minus 15% for 20 wheels, so 267... Thanks TFL, hopefully more tests to confirm Rivian actual production specifications. Please show the VIN of the R1T in video!!!
Interesting video. I was on the fence between the Rivian R1T and a Jeep Gladiator with it’s similar range and size. Using your channel to live vicariously while you still have access to the R1T.
I can live with the inconvenience of roadtrips in an EV for the massive benefit of daily home charging. Not visiting gas stations weekly is just delightful.
If you use the word “delightful” you are not a truck guy to begin with
@@YouYou-tg7qe if you think that, your sense of masculinity is delicate.
@@YouYou-tg7qe they didn’t say anything about trucks or being a truck guy they said ev
Thank you for sharing this video. I find all your EV videos super helpful for discovering what EV ownership might look like before I buy. I’m thinking of buying an EV for my next car and I want to as as informed as possible and I found the TFL videos to be the most informative. Thank you and keep up the good work!
What I’m most interested is that at 20% your range was ~65 miles and at 80% it was ~220 miles. That means on a highway trip, youre stopping every 155 miles. 155 miles at 75 mph takes just two hours. So every two hours youre stopping for 40 minutes to charge. Stopping every 2 hours is pretty far below the “I need to pee/eat” threshold of most people when on road trips… not the most convenient 🤔
Agree and can’t imagine what it would be with a trailer attached.
Great video Tommy, I love the new TFLEV channel and all the info you are supplying. This is very valuable information for motorheads that are interested in EV vehicles.
I think 10%-80% would be a reasonable range for a road trip. I've had an EV for 5 years and typically don't like going below 10% when I'm out and about.
For road trips one question that always seems to be a debate is whether it's fast to do many short charging stops or fewer longer charging stops. I suppose that would involve lots of variables but it would be interesting to see which method ends up making a road trip faster.
The variables are mainly charging speed (ideally the car would pre condition the battery), charger locations compatible with range (which depends on infrastructure, outside and battery temp, rain/snow etc and of course...), traveling speed of the vehicle.
For a model 3 the best speed is just over 100mph as it charges back up so fast. Obviously that speed is only legal here in Germany so that's not realistic for you guys in the US
Why not go by remaining range rather than battery percentage? I don't look for gas stations when the needle gets to 1/4 like it's 1995. I stop when the range is below 100 miles.
@@mechmat12345 just one example would be driving your EV in very slow traffic where it's super efficient. Based on the very low consumption your range estimate might be stil acceptable for you while your battery is dropping down to 1 or 2%. everything below 10% is pretty stressful for the battery. A battery doesn't car how far you might be able to go. A battery cares about its voltage not dipping too low, damaging the cells if done repeatedly. The battery percentage is an easy to understand, pretty accurate estimate of that battery voltage.
In an old EV, much like an old iphone, it might lead to an unexpected shutdown when you suddenly demand too much energy (which is usually restricted by the so called turtle mode, but theoretically)
Congrats on new channel and on the ranch purchase, looking forward to the week's worth of Rivian content.
Takeaway: These are great commuter vehicles, especially if you can charge at home, but not-so-great road trippers. Awesome content, though.
Why not get a smaller car (EV obviously) for commuting?!
That's a good way to bottom-line the EV debate.
@@anthonyc1883 yes he's technically correct but as the average person doesn't do 600 miles a day more than 4-6 times a year they will survive the additional hour per 600 miles of constant driving.
On the other hand, as @rick said, you won't be wasting time going to gas stations the other 360 days of the year
Se jménem Tomas a nálepkou České republiky na notebooku si troufám odhadnout, že mi budeš rozumět. Sleduju vás dlouho a děláte to skvěle. To předchozí video R1T natočené na jeden záběr bylo úžasné. Hodně štěstí s novým kanálem.
Tommy, I hear a lot about electric cars being cheaper to charge than to fill your car with gasoline. However, a quick calculation from your experience yields a $25 cost for 220 miles of use this equates to $8.8 per mile, a pretty big cost increase vs gas. My 4 Runner costs $7/mile. Best case, it’s the same cost as gas.
DC Fast charging is expensive - 2-3 times more than charging at home. If you exclusively charge at DC fast chargers the cost per mile will be fairly similar to a gas vehicle. Oh, and your calculation is off by a couple decimal points - that would be cents per mile, not dollars per mile.
@@steinwaymodelb It's cheaper to charge at home now. But when demand for electricity goes up because more EV charging, and when states start looking for revenue to cover lost road taxes, the cost per mile to run an EV will likely go up, way, way up.
Charge at home. It’s like $0.11kwh vs $0.31kwh in this video
You have backwards cents per mile is better. 25/220 = 0.11/mile But he says the real world range was 160 miles. So 25/160= .15/mile
@@steinwaymodelb I think you mean 8.8 miles per dollar. $8.8 per mile for 220 miles would cost $1936. It should be about 11.36 cents per mile.
Thanks for the video Tommy. I pre-ordered a Rivian in 2019 and await news of its production. So here's my question: Why 31¢ per kilowatt hour? The average cost per kilowatt hour in Tennessee is just under 11¢. A 200% mark-up (pricey delivery costs) may need to be reconsidered if we are to convince people to transition over to EVs in a timely manner. My ICE mid-sized SUV costs roughly 12¢ per mile to drive. Your charge for the Rivian was 16.6¢ per mile. That's an increase of 25% in energy costs over my ICE SUV. If I charge at home, the cost would be roughly $8.50 for the same 155 miles. I guess the moral of the story is to charge at home and avoid the charging centers if you can.
That's just the cost of using these dc fast chargers. They are not meant to be your primary energy source. Most people will charge at home. These would be used in road trips or trips to the store.
@@davidsullivan335 Ideally, yes David. I agree. However, let us not forget the majority of us who: live in apartments, park on the streets, rent, can't afford installing a charging station at home, and a host of other issues. Personally, I already installed a 240v hook-up in my garage. Eventually they will be as ubiquitous as a refrigerator. My point is that we need to think this through...and we're not. It reminds me of the time when everybody put microwave ovens in their homes and kept blowing the fuse. The infrastructure MUST be in place. Even the national power grid cannot support EVERYBODY charging their cars. I enjoy the TFL channels and I hope TFLEV will be used to address the EV issues that we all see coming down the pike. EV's are the future. No doubt about it. We just need to be prepared to support them.
Also, Tesla charges much closer to regular electric rates, other companies like ea overcharge
Have you tried adding a dongle to the OBD2 port? This usually gives you a lot more information than what the on-board computer will give you. Just like on an ICE vehicle.
Pretty sure OBD2 ports on EVs will become less and less prevalent. Tesla has moved away from them in the newest Model 3 (apparently) and the only information that an inspection station needs is VIN numbers and emissions status. Also, we’re reaching a point where the on-board computer’s “available info” should start to surpass anything coming from 25 year old port.
Does Rivian have a useful OBD2 port?
@@jaywhite1850 I thought they were required on all vehicles but maybe not on EVs?
Great stadium analogy
Something tells me with higher temps, we would see that charge rate closer to 200kW. I was parked next to one doing 190kW all the way to 75% in 55° weather.
There’s a few UK based EV tests which show the charge rate is significantly slower at low temperatures.
That was a Rivian accepting 190kW to 75%??
I know Porsche and Audi maximize how long they deliver high rate of charge, by having long buffers.
As someone with a Bolt EV I usually trust it to go down to 8%-10%. During desert summer trips I keep it higher as the charge rate drops significantly as the cooling system doesn't kick in below a certain SOC.
I typically go down to 10% on my tesla. I usually charge to 60% for the best speed.
Can you set the % to what it will be charged to?
@@zippy0n942 you can! I remember rivian stated up to 70% is best for battery but obviously it all depends on what you’re doing and how many chargers are in your area and along your route
Loved the Video, Yes I agree with many that 10% to 80% is the best traveling test. I want to stop the least number of times during my trip. Loved the graphs and I agree this is a great real world test and will continue watching them. I look forward to seeing all the other vehicle types including: current models from Tesla, GM, VW, Ford, etc.
Great video. I don’t own an EV, nor probably will anytime soon, but I really enjoy learning about them from your videos. Obvious to see how passionate you are about these vehicles and it shows in your content.
Caveman
A great start to getting a handle on this....and the truth or not of manufacturers claims...
It would be great to see a comparison to what the equivalent cost of gas would have been for the same amount of miles gained on the charge. I did one using 18 mpg at $3/gal and it came out to $26. The same you paid for electricity. 🤔
Do the same comparison for the most common recharge situation: plugging in to your home charger. $26 for the EV is for convenience, not electricity. I see a lot of comments about time, convenience, and money , but these are only factors for extended travel, not daily use. For daily use, the EV wins in each of these categories.
Yes elwctrifyamerica is expensive. And tesla is getting expensive aswell. EV are cheaper only on maintenance and when charging at home.
@@JuanMii24 100% agree, plus one this that isn't talked about often is location of "home". Depending on where you live, electric rates can differ significantly. I live in CT, and it costs about 20 cents per kw, ($3.30/gal gas) which would net someone less savings than living in a state with say 12 cents/kw costs and $3/gal gas.
@@rondavis3232 the video was based on a long travel situation so that is the reason for my comment.
@@jprock73 True. It's a good point. Have a great weekend.
Your charging session videos are very helpful.
Good job. I have been waiting for this kind of information for a while. The flat curve at the beginning shows that the battery is currently amp limited resulting in the even 140-151 kW range. Maybe if the battery was at a lower state of charge (5-10%), you might see a higher peak closer to 200kW. Or maybe the truck software limited the amps for now until they are more comfortable with the durability of the battery to dial up the amps. Considering how relatively low the C rate of this example is (peak of 1.1C), it is possible for the peak rate to be higher or the curve be longer pending on the durability and longevity indicators.
How in the world could you determine the battery is amp limited based on data from a single charging session? One truck, one charger, one set of environmental conditions, etc.
10%-80% is what I’d like to see. I am very glad you include the cost of charge.
Thank you Tommy! Great analysis of Rivian’s charging behavior. I watch all of your shows and enjoy them tremendously. Rivian looks like a beautiful truck. However it doesn’t look like it is efficient at all compared to Tesla. I understand it is apples to oranges but this makes me think whether a 100% electric truck is a good idea at this point. Too heavy and aerodynamically inferior. Too large battery can’t compensate for that. It makes the vehicle way too heavy, thus rendering it inefficient. Charging at Electrify America is not cheaper than gas too, if you add all the variables. It is actually more expensive. You don’t have to be a Tesla fan to realize that Tesla is far ahead in their solutions for automotive electrification. No wonder we still don’t have the Cybertruck operational. Until Tesla has a cheaper and more efficient battery pack for it, the Cybertruck will behave just like the Rivian - poorly.
Welcome to the world of trucks. You pay a price for utility. It someone is trading in a ICE truck for a Rivian they are going to see a massive improvement in efficiency.
Great info Tommy!
I think it's important to point out that most EV charging will be done at home at a much cheaper rate. As someone who owns two EVs, I can say the only time we've charged away from home is on a longer trip.
The convenience of charging away from home is not indicative of the normal cost of EV charging ownership.
So true.
But there are a lot of people that live in apartments or if you have drive habits like mine I get the benefit of home charging for the start of my trip but then I would be hit with the charging station costs.
@@erikfruits6733 you must have one hell of a commute.
Agree that EVs might not be right for everyone right now.
ARE THE DROP OFFS IN CHARGING SPEED DUE TO THE BATTERY BALANCING THE CELLS AT DIFFERENT PERCENTAGES?
No, balancing is a small factor the main factor is just how the battery chemistry works, lithium batteries really like being below 90% and if 80% even better. Same with the lows, 20% is where you start doing small amount of damage to the battery. Ideally for battery like you are only using 60% of the battery, but that bottom 20% is more damaging than the top 20%
The drop off in charging has to do the battery cell chemistry. If you charge faster when the cell closer to fully charged you have a better chance of damaging the battery. The battery manufacturer produces a allow charge curve for the battery which the auto manufacturer follows.
Hey Tommy. I strongly recommend you to go deep into TeslaBjorn channel where he is constantly testing and road tripping (1000km and more) different EVs in Norway. You will learn A LOT of stuff with him. Also you will see that one thing is what makers tell you and a different thing is the truth. For example, it is just not possible that you just drive to the charging station and get the maximum possible charging speed (for the percentage of charge of it). The battery temperature has to be within a certain range. That’s probably why you were getting 150 instead of 200 (unless the station was faulty). So, please, again, go and see a lot of Bjørn’s videos 🙂
Can you back the R1T into a garage door frame and see how the repair process goes? Curious how the parts availability goes and how long repair takes.
When you're road tripping, you're going to be showing up at the chargers with a really warm battery from it heating up while driving. I'm guessing because you went to Loveland the battery was not properly warm and preconditioned. Even if Rivian said there was nothing you needed to do, the charge rate clearly trended up as the battery heated.
I'd like to see a more accurate test with a warm battery pack from 10-80%.
Keep in mind I had been driving for well over an hour straight (and driving HARD) to get it down to 20. I even heard the fans kick on at one point driving to the charger
You’ll see in an upcoming towing video where we drained it to 15% on a towing road trip peak was also 150 kW
Wow, you guys weren’t kidding about the detail and thoroughness, excellent video and thanks for putting in the work Tommy! I am definitely interested in the Rivian R1S
Hi Tommy awesome job very glad to see EV channel big fan from CANADA.
I love you new EV videos they are full of so much information. Always knew that about those batteries but have never seen it broken down like that . Great job 👍
Thanks TFL EV for the rundown...this is pretty new to me and I appreciate you getting down the "nuts and bolts" (so to speak) of dealing with an EV. New subscriber and I'll be watching for new videos...keep it up!
Always great to get a real world charge video
Great video. I love the idea of an all electric vehicle, and there are several I'd love to own (like this Rivian). However, all I'm thinking about right now is sitting at a packed charging station, 10% battery left, no other stations nearby, and my kids are in the back absolutely flipping their shit... and I'm third in line. It's making my hair fall out just imagining it. For road trips... I'll be keeping the gas vehicle.
We're a long way off from having enough EVs on the road for that to be a real problem.
And fortunately there's never a wait for gas stations.
I think a poll about road trip behavior would be interesting. How many trips a year? How long per trip? How many miles do you go in a day? How many hours are you comfortable driving before taking a break? etc.
These are helpful. I was thinking of buying a Rivian next year. My biggest hesitation is the varying charge stations and issues I've seen. I'm lucky to be in CA where there are plenty of stations, but not all of them are fast charging. A lot of times, they are out of order or you simply can't reach the speeds as you ran into with this video.
I think a good video would be to go over some of the pitfalls there are in charging to watch out for when preparing to buy an EV vehicle. Especially a truck like this where you might take it camping and a charging station could be quite far away from where you're staying.
Overall I think EV really is the future and this is a great mid-size truck example
I wish you would have told us how far you actually got on that 80% while driving 75-80 mph on mountainous CO interstates. Hopefully in an upcoming vid. And man this is why Rivian didnt give you a truck for a while. You are the first to do this and it is not good for using the truck the way they are marketing it. I already did a lot of the calculations and based on mapping the distance of my trips and what I thought charging speed would be and determined that all of my offroad daytrips would become overnighters. You are confirming my calculations. And that doesnt even account for the even grippier tires I would put on it, other un- aerodynamic stuff I would put on it, and it loaded down.
1. I love the RT1 and hope to get one at some point .
2. In my opinion, great real world tests of the RT1 by TFL.
3. WTH with over $25 to get 160 miles. I was expecting a lot cheaper. My 2014 Ram Ecodiesel gets 26 mpg highway and 22 in mixed driving. I would pay $27 for the same range in mixed driving and about $23 for highway driving. These electric charging stations are making a killing.
4. Thanks for the info, but I need to understand more about the limited charging capacity of the charging stations not getting above 152 at separate stations.
We've done about five >1000 mile road trips with our Model X. In the winter I shoot for 20%, and in the summer I'm ok at 10-15%. Tesla has lots of superchargers. I can easily 'ride the charging curve' in the summer and charge fast and move on (15-25 m) but in the winter it slows down to 35-40m each stop.
EA has a long way to go to be Tesla in charging confidence. I'm never concerned pulling into a Supercharger if it's going to work. We currently have an ID.4 that is a car my college students use. They charge at the nearby EA because it's 'free' with the purchase of the car. There are so few of the EA chargers though, I keep hoping they'll get some more infra built but if you use something like ABRP your stops are more hair raising which is unfortuante. Since we got the X in 2019 Tesla has added at least 6 more stops on the route to our yearly family trip home every year since I first did it in Dec 2019.
Tesla has started a pilot program to open Superchargers to other manufacturers, but only in the Netherlands so far. IF that happens in the US in the next couple of years, I think range anxiety for EVs will be gone for all intents and purposes.
Hey Tommy! Really stoked to see an EV-centric TFL channel. This kind of stuff is great to see and there's just a handful of outlets that have any claim to being independent journalists working heavily in the EV space. I know it's a lot of work and time. Keep up the good work!
Here in Canada it cost me about $25 for 60-70 miles in my 2021 tundra. Gas is over $6 a gallon.
Hi Tommy
Thanks for the real-life look, including the 2x try needed to get charging.
- I too am in for 10-80% for a large batt vehicle like the R1T. 10% gets to next stop. 80% is the cliff on most EVs.
- For vehicle comparisons, probably need >1 session to build a base of average capability and eliminate situational ‘noise’ in the charge profile.
- Get tech usable on most EVs for more automated measure? It’d help sanity with what’ll be part of a set of routine tests….
Thank you for the real-life look at fast charging with the R1T. Greatly appreciated!!
No one seems to be comparing what really matters: how long does it take to add the same number of miles back? Battery sizes are different, efficiencies are different, and charging speeds are different and follow different curves. When we road trip we plug in, choose our next charge stop, then charge until the car says we can make our next planned stop with 20%. We typically go 100-150 miles between stops. My recommendation for a fair comparison across all EVs is to see how long it takes to add 120 miles on a battery starting at that safe 20%. A car that only charges at 50 kw but gets 4 miles/kWh would be faster than a car that charges at 75 kw but only gets 2 miles/kWh.
Tommy, another great info test. SUGGESTION: (I also like the 20-80 agreed) BUT if you widen the window say 10-90 or even from a low 5 like some daredevils, and chart it, a wider swath of viewers/travelers can estimate their own charge windows from and to any point. I know the battery temps and ramp up down may vary some when starting at 10 to 90 example, but charting the overall result should give more viewers an opportunity to figure their window, be it a bathroom break charge or a longer stop, whether they start from 10-50, or from 50 to 90 for a final long stretch, and so on.
The most important range test is called the FULL CHARGE -> PEE -> LUNCH -> PEE -> DINNER -> PEE - > SLEEP - TEST. As the name suggests, start from a full charge (maybe on road at 7 or 8am) and drive for a few hours, take say a 10 minute pee/charge break. Drive until lunch and take a 30 minutes break for lunch and charge. Back on road and one more 10 minute pee break in a few hours and then drive until 5pm or so for dinner. I would end my driving there but I think most seasoned long day drivers would get back on road and put a few more hours and maybe one more pee break before calling it a night at 9pm or so. Do you make it to a natural dinner time? How far did you go for day?
Saw a Rivian on the road yesterday. Surprised how small it was.
That charge port is located in wrong area. Any fender bender looks like would leave you chargeless unless there's another port
I find this content interesting even though I don't see myself longing for a EV anytime soon. If I'm on a road trip, I don't want to wait 40 minutes to charge my EV between stops.
The biggest barrier to full EV adoption is charging times. Outside of early adopters, the general public won’t want to hear that they’d have to stop for 30mins-1hr to charge on a trip vs fueling up in 5 minutes at a fuel station.
Great video for real world use. I think this information is all I needed to know about Electric vehicles. For longer trips the time to charge for minimal range is just not good. I feel that you cannot beat a combustion engine or even a hybrid for longer trips.
Not yet, not if you are in a hurry. Remember that a gas car requires you to be by the pump, any yime in bathroom/shopping/esting would be extra. I have found that a quick gas stop without my wife needing toilet and shopping is very uncommon in my road trips. Almost never stopped for less than 25-30 minutes.
In an EV you can connect and go do all that stuff, no need to stay by the vehicle, since it is a much safer process.
Definitely helpful! Keep them coming guys. Glad to see TFL has finally made friends with Rivian;)
You are spot on with the charging limitation. I'm on my second Tesla Model S and I've traveled all over the west from my home near Seattle and I've always stuck with Supercharge at 10%-20% rule on my trips. Tesla makes this easy with their Supercharger network. I have driven nearly 15 miles with 0% on my battery (unplanned, obviously) once. It was pretty interesting with all accessaries turned off and going about 45 mph on I-90.... :)
Very helpful info. I am waiting on a max pack & plan on doing road trips in the southwest (mostly desert areas) where ranges will be very important. Thanks.