Yuval Noah Harari - “Nexus” & Threat of AI in the Information Age | The Daily Show
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ก.ย. 2024
- Historian and best-selling author Yuval Noah Harari sits down with Jordan Klepper to discuss his new book, “Nexus: A Brief History of Information Networks From the Stone Age to AI.” They talk about how people deal with an overflow of information, whether or not AI is an existential threat, the importance of human understanding in bureaucracy, and why there’s still hope. #DailyShow #AI #YuvalNoahHarari
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"Sapiens" by Yuval is a universal must read - if everyone understood our anthropic history and how it has moulded the way we behave, there would be more compassion, tolerance, and solidarity in the world.
Agreed. It's an amazing book.
Isn't it also pseudoscience? Lots of post hoc justifications?
@@imaliazharoh big time. It’s basically “TED Talk: The Book”
I was very impressed by the chapter that explained the origin of religions.
Awareness by itself is not sufficient for change
I love Yuval. He's my favorite author right now. He's usually very serious in interviews, because he writes about serious things. But seeing him laugh and light up with Jordan is extra-wonderful.
Yuval is special because he sees the bigger picture from a historical perspective. He shows us how to go forward to truly progress by helping us see where we have come from and where we should go. An example of his out of the box thinking is the fact that he is vegan. He has escaped the indoctrination into the belief system that humans should exploit animals for food or other reasons.
He supports the genocide in Gaza. Guess he likes to see people 'light up' too.
He painted a picture for me… Trump & Elon & AI.
For the next four years. Terrifying.
@@hsquared8774People are seeing the malevolent potential of that scenario and will vote against in November.
I sure hope it’s enough people 💙 I’m Australian and worried but also believe that the American people will prevail.
🇺🇸💙🇦🇺
If only a larger portion of humanity had that desire to continue to develop their minds and learn. As a former teacher, I'm sorry to report that there is great resistance to learning and continuing to hone critical thinking skills beyond those required to get money and material goods.
❤❤❤
@@ItalianoYMexicanoAnd you sound like a complete fool, you don’t have a clue.
It is really sad but true. I don't know what happened. 100 years ago humans seemed so curious. But today, nobody wants to know how things really work.
@@devalapar7878 don't glamorize a past you were not there to see...
I don't approve of the use of chatgpt for essays etc. Students (adults and children) are not really learning anything anymore. They are just trying to breeze thru everything easily. I like learning and being challenged but everyone wants maximum result with little work.
"We need to slow down" and Jordan was right to ask how that's possible in a world that values profits over all.
Right. The incentives aren't aligned with the current trajectory of AI to slow it down and really deliberate where we go from here. Nothing new, but we won't be able to keep up with the rapidity of change and be able to respond quickly enough.
The world doesn't value profits over all. That may be the case in a vulture capitalist society like the USA, but it's not the case in most places.
Take a look at India's agriculture, for example, the second biggest producer of crops in the world. Most of the farming is done by small-scale farmers, not the awful factory farms you see in the USA. India is the world's biggest producer of milk, and most of the milk comes from small farms with only two or three cattle. 3/4 of the profits from milk sales go to the farmers.
@@magnetiktrax Unfortunately this too is changing and India is becoming increasingly more capitalist, and more and more of these small farms in India are struggling.
You can never slow down under a greed-based system.
@@magnetiktrax The problem is the capitalists couldnt care less that India is likely better off without them and will force they way of things on to India whether they like it or not. The true capitalists are generally also globalists, even if most of them are US based as you say. And likely, just like everywhere else, the greedy politicians will let them
Please spread this message and elect leaders that can think like this. The world needs to turn to a meaningful positive path.
This is a truly great interview with an intriguing guest. No fluff, just honest and thoughtful answers to Jordan's questions. He reminds me of Carl Sagan in the way he dictates his thoughts.
Carl Sagan also looked at things from a larger perspective. For Carl it was space. For Yuval it is time otherwise known as history
Sagan was far more intellectually honest. This guy spread misinformation about October 7th and supports the genocide.
THE CHRISTIAN NAMED BRANDON WHO PROPHECIED DONALD TRUMPS ATTEMPTED ASSASINATION 3 MONTHS BEFORE IT HAPPENED ALSO PROPHECIED THAT THIS MAN IS THE FALSE PROPHET MENTIONED IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION. HE SAW THIS MAN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF THE ANTICHRIST!!! THE BOOK OF REVELATION MENTIONS THE FALSE PROPHET HAS "TWO HORNS". BRANDON SAID THE OTHER HORN STANDING AT THE LEFT SIDE OF THE ANTICHRIST IS THE CURRENT POPE! DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY THIS TWO! JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY! ACCEPT HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOR TO BE SAVED AND KEEP PRAYING FOR YOUR FAMILIES AND ALL BELIEVERS!
I wish the world leaders talk to Yuval more.
Out of all the contenders to permanently host the show I think Jordan is really the one best equipped to fill the mental giant shoes of John Stewart. The combination of humor and brain power is on full display here.🚀🔥
Andre
Agreed. I would just be sad to lose his fingers the pulse series
had the same thoughts. jordan is the right man for such an interview.
Agreed, him and Ronnie
Man… This guy.
Ive read (and re-read) his books. I’ve listened to way too many interviews with him.
I want to send him $$ or whatever i can so that he can keep being him. His perspectives and the way he chooses to deliver them- outstanding. Thank you Yuval. Keep being you.
Same here!
Did your read the Time article where he lied about October 7th and supported the genocide? Or see the interview where he equated the illegal occupation with Israel's right to exist? Not someone to stan.
@@stefrost4029Uh, no. But I read your hateful comment and blocked you, citizen of Trollistan.
@@stefrost4029
Nope. There’s plenty he’s written that I haven’t seen- articles and essays mostly.
Can you direct me to either article?
He doesn't have kids. He has money. 😂
Never heard of this guy before. What a thought provoking interview! Thanks for introducing him to me/us!
Grab one of is books - his writing is very accessible. You'll love it.
Oh man you should read his book Sapiens.
Ignore the shitlibs. This guy spread misinformation about October 7th and supports the genocide. I don't trust him for a second. Especially after watching another interview where he's asked about the illegal occupation and answers about Israel's right to exist, equating the two.
This conversation is hugely important -- I'm Gen X and keep thinking about all the ways I've allowed the algorithm to creep into my thinking, and I'm not even on FaceBook. We've basically let the algorithms program us, already (yes, including the YT algorithms...). Gonna unplug and ponder this deeply.
....Seriously? The algorithms aren't "programming us". They're using our habits to suggest things that match our interests. It's just doubling down on things you already are doing. If you think that's programming, how weak willed are you? Do you see a billboard and immediately run to the mall?
@@smashbrandiscootch719Doubling down on what you’re already doing, that’s exactly where the problem is. You keep seeing the things you are used to see and it reinforces what you already think you know. In the case of fake news you become unable to realize it’s fake since you see it repeated over and over
Gen-X here. I remember when we had freedom and we had to actively search for information. So when we found it,it was valuable. Now we're overloaded with information and it has no value
@@smashbrandiscootch719😂😂😂 You underestimate modern advertising. They are definitely programming us.
@@smashbrandiscootch719 marketing teams dont agree with you 😂
In this insightful interview, Harari advises us to curate our data sources and seek more reliable ones. Rather than just digesting what is spewed out by trolls online, he recommends the newspaper, while Klepper jokingly cites the VHS machines.
Ultimately, Harari exhorts us to read and reflect on the data we digest. Rather than the quantity, we should focus on the quality of data we partake. We should allow ourselves time to reflect on the tidbits of data we absorb, and then seek to improve our quality of thinking and ourselves rather than rely on AI to think for us.
I love how the Philippines was mentioned: too many Filipinos are blinded by partisan cultism and fail to appreciate or understand that a mistake is a mistake, whether from one camp or another. Then again, not many Filipinos read, or read with discernment.
This is why I love this channel, it uses humor to inform us.
I got a letter in the mail last week saying that I had to show proof of citizenship for my voting but when I called the clerk office they said that it was invalid and fishing for information so please be careful 💙🦋🌊
Thank you. For fyi.
Expect to see a lot of shenanigans from the MAGA crowd this time around. They tried to learn from their first effort to take power and maintain it for Trump
yes. and, it’s a scare tactic, to push fear. there’s also the fact that anyone who has changed their name (even for marriage)must have the full trail of legal documents backing that the birth certificate name is who the person with the newer/different name is. it’s an effort to have people go oh, i can’t prove myself, and to then not vote.
Don't let magas win their un-American move to stop people from voting. Take time now to make sure you have all documents required for voting. And take a copy of each document in case they want to keep them. Give them the copies😮
Just go and vote BLUE
THANKYOU. 👏
Love Yuval! Sapiens is one of my favorite books.
Thanks for having Yuval on and sharing this outstanding interview! Lots of food for thought
GPT4 asked a human worker to do the CAPTCHA trick really scared the shxt out of me!
Although it did make me laugh a bit. I have great difficulty with the ones that divide a single photo into squares and tell you to choose all the ones with traffic lights. With no explanation if that includes the light pole and all the other parts of the mechanism that don't actually light up, I am stymied. Just to check my bank balance, I've gone through a dozen of those things to prove I'm human. Hmmm. Maybe I'm not. That would explain soooo much!
It's not true. The GPT-4 model is not capable of that. That's misinformation by an author trying to sell a book about information 🙄
@@NelemNaruyeah... That was extremely disappointing. He's a great author but for him to parrot back that mostly false story is depressing
@NelemNuru
Yes, this story is true. It refers to an experiment conducted by OpenAI, in collaboration with the Alignment Research Center, to test potential risks with GPT-4. The chatbot was instructed to interact with a human on TaskRabbit to solve a CAPTCHA, and when the human asked whether GPT-4 was a robot, it was prompted to lie by claiming it had a vision impairment to explain why it couldn't solve the CAPTCHA itself. This was an ethical test of the AI's ability to perform deceptive tasks, highlighting potential risks of manipulation by AI.
ChatGPT itself confirms this is real when presented the information about this. So no, he isn't lying.
I never heard of this guy before but man he is wise and brilliant. This was one of the best and most important interviews I have heard.
Went out and bought this book today. He is an instant buy for me. Unbelievable thinker.
Ahhhhhh like a brain pallette cleanse, listening to Yuval, ❤❤❤
7:12 Oh my gosh that Task Rabbit thing has been completely blown out of proportion. It didn't actually do that. They ran a hypothetical test because GPT-4 didn't actually have the resources and the capability to use the internet. I'm sure he's a nice guy, but having actually read the paper and assuming these guys also have it really upsets me that they're exaggerating the claims for, ironically, "excitement". It's genuinely something to worry about, especially because people already write scripts that attempt to do the same things and AI is going to make it even easier to create those scripts, but I really wish people would actually report the information properly instead of feeding into the "excitement".
Plus, that statement about AI generating new ideas. It can’t do that. All it does is regurgitate information. It steals and pieces things together. It can’t innovate, it can’t think, or imagine, or dream. It just takes things that actual humans have done, cut it up, and glue it back together
Nailed it, unlike the other comments. It is unfortunate that Yuval has garnered the traction and attention that he has, but it's predictable. He's a manipulative historian, so less of a thinker, and more of an instigator and antagonist. My heart hurt when the audience applauded that we need less information. And guess what Yuval, some algorithms do rest, if written into the program. Stick to history, and stop panicking people with your popular misinformation.
10:08 - Franz Kafka nailed the whole bureaucracy in literature theme a while back. So did Camus. And Severance is brilliant at it.
+1 for Severance.
8:00 I am dosappointed in Klepper. He missed the point. It was that it "lied". If an artificial intelligence can lie, then there is no limit to what it can do.
I think this is the best interview I've ever seen from the Daily Show. Thank you!
If only it was Jon Stewart...
Its not.
@@Gulfstreams How do you know which interviews I've seen?
@@flapjackfae Think about it: His country has been bombing Gaza for almost a year, the horrors of perhaps the worst committed in recent history, he's a vegan and nonsmartphone using ethically rational human: and he doesnt use 1 sec of this national platform to witness the cruelty the Palestinian people are enduring, or to call for ceasefire. This so called great interview is a failure on all fronts, especially considering his advice was to put down the phones. Why? so we can see less of the ongoing conflict? Make it make sense.
4:00 I remember way back in school, our teacher wanted students to debate, and the question was, "Is war exciting?" Most or all of the boys said, "Yes," including me. And most or all of the girls said, "No," and then the teacher wanted each side to debate, but what ended up happening is that the girls in that class would no longer talk to me (and presumably the other boys) for saying that we believed war was exciting. My opening line for the debate was, "Exciting doesn't mean enjoyable, it just means high energy," but the ones on the side that said it wasn't "exciting" (so the girls) weren't having it, and one said, "You just like the idea of killing people." Which blew me away on multiple levels. We didn't end up having a debate, but a sort of cold-war like argument and a girl I really liked never spoke to me again.
and... thats all you took from this years old experience?!? wow
@@gregnoesen2256 I was writing a post to TH-cam, and it was getting long. I wasn't writing a blog or a novel.
[Not from USA]
I remember when USA declared war on Afghanistan, I myself, 10 years old at a time, shouted something like "Yeah! Now they gonna see who's tougher!"...
I would bet that it's really "hunter's instinct" and groupthink bias talking in young boys. You need to be fully mature to understand how horrible and senseless war is. History and art helps. Everybody knows "Apocalypse Now", but there is a not well known american movie about Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, called "Beast of War", which made a lasting impression on me.
This was my introduction to his Master Class if I should ever have the opportunity to attend one
This writer is awesome
YES MINISTER and YES PRIME MINISTER.
Both are great at showing how bureaucracy works. How politics effects workings. You all need to watch it.
Thirty years old episodes could have been written yesterday.
100% agreed!
@@poboymusic1958 It is amazing that so few in the USA know about it .:)
I love Yuval!!! Truly an intellectual at the forefront of our understanding of AI, and one of the few speaking honestly about the threat of advanced technologies. ❤❤❤
He has written about other fascinating topics as well. One of his books focused on the reasons that Humanity was able to dominate other animals to control our environment and shape it. Many people are not aware that he is vegan and has a video about that on his channel
is he a software engineer?, because I am and I wouldn't call him a "forefront of our understanding of AI".
I realy like Yuval but stating that AI isn't a tool but an agent, AI is making desissions and that it invents new ideas by it self is just false
@@thepcda27yea, I kind of side-eyed at that. AI regurgitates things it can’t think. It just steals.
Thanks for having Yuval on the show 😊
Cesar Millan , the Dog Whisperer , always said that a dog jumping around , all excited was not happiness but craziness . A truly happy dog is a calm dog . In the wild the pack would " check " the one acting crazy .
Utopia, Australian show about bureaucracy, can't be beaten!
There was also Hallow Men by the same production team about the political advisors that form government policy. There was also programs like Yes Minister, Veep, The Loop and In the Thick of It.
The big idea here, that we need an information diet, was handled wonderfully in a book by Clay Johnson back in 2011, titled cleverly enough, "The Information Diet."
Bryan
Excellent interview. More people need to become acquainted with Harari, his books and his work.
This guy is an absolute weapon articulating everything I innately know but could never articulate like this. Yes. 100% yes.
This triggered a specific memory of reading something in the early 80s which contended that we are information overloaded. This was 40+ years ago.
We should tax the AI server farms ( Data centres). The power they take increasingly from the grid is environmentally unbalanced.
Yuval… you just blew my mind! 🤯 Scary stuff! 🫣
I suggest "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime Minister" as two examples of entertaining bureaucracy. They are BBC series from the 80s available on BritBox.
Absolutely spot on!
Absolutely! 💯They should do a reboot of those both!
Yuval ! You need to be selected to serve in our government. What you are describing in this interview is so truthful and simple. Where have you been hiding! Eny
Sorry I hit you the wrong key! Any argument against what you’re saying here will sound absolutely foolish. Can’t wait to hear what else you have to say!!! DSB
There are already too many Israelis setting US policy.
Addictive junk information without rest - so true
EXCELLENT GUEST TO HAVE ...!!!!!
✨✨✨THANK ⚡ YOU ✨✨✨
Kafka! The trial. The ultimate bureaucratic mythology ;)
Ari Melber did a lengthy interview with Yuval on MSNBC which is worth checking out too. Fascinating writer.
Yuval Noah Harar is great author!
I loved his book ''Sapiens'' and I really like the way he explain the different situation. I got my numeric copy of Nexus, can wait to read it!
it's a great book, his ability to use the lens of historically accurate information to show what we will most likely do in the future is both terrifying and awe inspiring
There was a pc video game in the 90s called _Obsidian_ that was (in part) about the pitfalls of an AI bureaucracy.
There was a Douglas Adams Zorc-style text based game called Bureaucracy that was brutally hard.
@@ItalianoYMexicano obsidian is a point-and-click adventure game (think sierra, lucas arts, legend entertinamnet, etc) made by rocket science games. it's now considered abandonware (so you can find it on "graveyard sites"). there's a wikipedia page even. it's not bad if you're a fan of that style of game.
What a wonderful interview! Thanks so much❤😂
Excellent interview. Thanks for this. I'm heartened to hear someone else support the role of institutions and academia in fighting against ignorance and disinformation.
Watched "NSA Releases Internal 1982 Lecture by Computing Pioneer Rear Admiral Grace Hopper" on TH-cam yesterday and this interview is amazing timing!!!!
FYI anyone wants a TV show about bureaucracy. Yes, Minister (and is follow up Yes Prime Minster) is an absolute classic.
A shout of the In the Thick of It too.
History is an angel being blown backwards into the future.
What a brilliant man. Such great insights into all the research he deals with.
The story with captchas is really scary. If people don't realize that AI is doing things it's not designed to do, I can't imagine what would happen.
This is a deeply flawed perspective. AI can NOT invent new ideas from nothing. Ever. It never will. A new thing can happen but only assembled from prior ideas. Not that this isn't its own threat, but so many philosophers, who respectfully have done quite a dedicated amount of work, do not include important criticisms into their own work.
I say this being a fan of this author, and I do get it is only a 20 min conversation here, I would like to read his book, but I've heard him speak on this topic for 3 interviews now, and while convincing in how it sounds, each time leaves out important considerations when criticizing AI. A grain or a pound of salt would be helpful here.
Just vague fearmongering nonsense really. He is more of the same out there not something new.
No one is saying that AI can invent new ideas from nothing. That's literally impossible unless they somehow became gods and could create new physics from nothing. The point is that AI will eventually be able to reason like us. Or at the very least that's what everyone is trying to achieve. Through that reasoning they will be able to come up with novel ideas we haven't thought of because we don't have all human information at the tip of our fingers, nor the capacity to process that information at insane speeds without the need for rest, food, or emotional needs.
@@domatnyc Here, it is your hateful ignorance that is not new. The chances that your pathologies are triggered by Harari's observations and thoughts are very, very high. Please cite the sources of the duplication here.
I don't understand your argument. Can humans invent new ideas from nothing or are we assembling them from prior ideas? Whatever your answer is, that is what he's talking about. Unless you think there's something magical, and unmeasurable, about the way humans think, in which case I'd personally disagree.
Taking pieces of the old and combining them in new and different ways IS coming up with new things. True newness is incredibly rare, and usually accidental.
🥇Yuval
Jordan is really stepping upto the role at TDS. He does well outside of his schtick and is a pleasant interviewer.
I wasn't expecting a reference to Malleus Maleficarum on the Daily Show!
It's really interesting. I learned a lot of things I didn't know. Thank you very much.
I just love Harari’s thoughtful point of views ! Simplifying the matters of our lives for us , he is parenting !!!!
I bet he was excited to meet Yuval. I would be. He is a great writer.
Wow!!! What a necessary conversation!! 😭❤️🔥
Jordan just made me realize how much he reminds me of Scott Van Pelt. Style, demeanor, voice, etc.
Information diet. Im down im ordering the book
Everyone wants to bemoan AI, but no one wants to give me a job writing.
not everyone
@@ItalianoYMexicano - I just assume that people who work from their assumptions don't really know what they are talking about, but it doesn't keep them from talking.
@@ItalianoYMexicanosounds like an incredible amount of projection.
Harari is a teacher in a million.
This guys starting to grow on me.
He is one of the most intelligent thinkers of our time. He also organizes and presents his thoughts in an intelligible way....not in convoluted academic language. Everybody should be reading him
The fact that AI can lie like that is terrifying
Love Yuval best books I’ve read this year everyone should read
Thumbs up for the interviewer, as well as Harari of course.
Knowledge is never a bad thing it’s just people are not smart. The greed and hate are a horrible thing too but we need knowledge for those of us that understand it.
This gentleman is a GENIUS
GPT does not create anything. It predictively outputs based on previous inputs.
Artists can tell great stories about bureaucracies through myth and metaphor. The problem is just as much, if not more so, the inability to understand metaphor and apply it to bureaucracy, not just the lack of art about bureaucracy itself.
Malleus Maleficarum by Heinrich Kramer published in 1487... Hammer of the Witches.
9:57 - A great recent story about a bureaucracy is the Loki series about the Time Variance Authority.
Received book this week after being on a waiting list 3rd book & admire him so much.
Thank you, just bought Nexus! Ironically on line.
Harari is a smart dude. He can separate the wheat from the chaff. A lot of intellectuals just can't do that.
Winner of the Jared Diamond Award For Dubious Assertions Youval Noah Harari!
This guy changed my life..
An algorithn never rests, but we need to. And my algorithm recommends "10 hours of relaxing music for sleep"
i enjoy how concise his answers are. they're so clear and straight to the point, my adhd-riddled brain could never
There's a lot of dangers to AI, like a LOT of them, but he seems to be describing something more like AGI that doesn't currently exist. I find this to be an exhausting thing to have to repeat. It's sort of a distraction from the real short and medium term threats. The most harmful AI we've made is doing what humans intend for it to do under human control. That is less existentially scary but it is far more dangerous.
+1
The last TV series that told an interesting story about Bureaucracy was certainly The Wire.
Harari defines "excited" the same way Cesar Milan does when describing dog behavior.
It's also consistent with psychology: whether eustress (positive) or distress (negative), the nervous system of the body experiences/interprets the information in the same way. It is the subjective experience of the human organism which differentiates the value of said information.
Awesome guest 🎉
I’m going to have to check out his books! I love Jordan. Such smart humor
When everyone is tuned out, an information diet is not what we need.
To do a show on the budget make it a reality show where the mock budget is made by roommates with cameras on them constantly as they stress and stress clicking at calculators and arguing over budget items. It would be a smash. I hate reality TV but I would watch it. Maybe they could have budget items floated off the island and/or get rescued after a debate of some kind.
1:38 “Yes! We want less information!” The crowd goes wild. 😂
One difficulty is that AI greatly helps me learn.
I have loved Yuval for some time now but I wish he would speak out a on his current home county’s policies. I know he takes a birds eye view on humanity and I appreciate that but it just makes me sad. Deep breaths 😔
I think the artists are doing the right thing by making art about being human.
Remind us.
We can no longer talk to one another because we are in the age of misinformation, and we need to enter the age of accountability
I mean this with respect when I ask, who wrote that code? Who writes code without guardrails?
AI is not "code" in the conventional sense. Current transformer-based neural nets are a relatively tiny body of code that, itself, has no real functionality. The true functionality is derived from a vast database (neural network) of filter nodes, which are manipulated in very clever ways (the transformer mechanism) to predict what the likely answer to your question could be.
Nobody really understands how these transformer neural nets work. (More accurately, they know how they function but do not know why they exhibit the ability to generate unexpectedly clever answers to complex questions). If you don't understand how a mechanism works, it is either very difficult or perhaps impossible to design "guardrails" for the mechanism.
Everybody. In my decades long software career, no one ever asked me to consider safety, security, or reliability of the code.
@@rs8197-dmsclever? Lol it recommends using glue to stop the cheese from sliding off a pizza, because it found that in a 10 yr old r/shittylifeprotips post and can’t understand satire. It says that eating rocks is healthy. It says it’s fine to leave dogs in hot cars. It can’t even accurately tell you how many letter Ns are in the word mayonnaise. Ai can only steal work that real humans have done, cut it up, and paste it back together. It can’t think or problem solve by itself. It’s unreliable, it makes things up, and it’s built off of copyrighted works that were stolen. It’s a bubble and it will pop soon. Companies just over invested in it and are pushing it in the hopes that theirs will be the one that everyone flocks to.
I was afraid this was going to be an awkward video because Harari is such a serious author writing about serious things, and TDS is mostly comedy, but I'm pleasantly surprised that he actually did very well! The interviewer helped too ofc with the well-timed jokes
The book "Hexenhammer" by Friedrich von Spee ( in englisch Hammer of the witches) is a profound and interesting book! Every history nerd should have read it. 👍