Good video, but one physics correction. Around 4:20 (and 5:30) you say we maximize area under the curve with the haystack shape, which gives us the most force. That's not quite true. The area under the F vs t graph is work (aka energy). Work measured by the machine per stroke, and power comes from the rate at which that work is applied. Thus, if we are able to increase the amount of work (area under the force curve) at the same stroke rate, we have a higher power output and thus faster splits.
SO HELPFUL!!! I used this feature during Asensei’s Dark Horse program and learned A LOT!! My early arms on the catch showed up, my hip disengagement at times showed up and my early arm pull destroys the later half of my slope. I also used it on some pick drills to see the interactions better. Shane, you are awesome!!! Thank you!
I tried using the force curve on a 4x2000m session, it was a useful visual prompt to see when my stroke / curve started changing as I got tired making me concentrate on trying to rectify the change as much as I was able
I think this was a very informative video tutorial and I will use this graph to improve my rowing stroke as I aim to.get my first sub 7min 2000m row before I hit 50 years old. Thanks
I started watching your videos a couple of years ago. I need to watch (many) more of them. They are really targeting the right detail for people who want to improve their rowing both off and on the water. As a development coach of over 25yrs standing, yours are the only videos I feel I can recommend with confidence. That said, I need to challenge any aspects I find contrary to my current perception of rowing technique. On this occasion, I have to pick you up on two points: your most valiant attempt to explain the distinction between Force and Power and what the area under the (Force) curve on the Concept2 display monitor represents. Force = MA. Correct. Power = Work/Time but Work = Force x Distance, so Power = Force x (Distance / Time) or Force x Speed (strictly Velocity but who's checking?!). So, to increase Power, you can increase the Force (I prefer to refer to it as Resistance in a rowing context) or the Speed. Our slightly different explanations arrive at the same place but I find my version a bit more digestible for the beginners I often deal with. On the area under Force Curve, that's the Impulse (or change in Momentum) not, as you state in the video, the Force(!). As the Impulse represents the change in Speed (Velocity) of the Mass (i.e. the boat), this is what we want to maximise. Judging by the comments already submitted, you've succeeded by whatever means to explain well enough for most people's appreciation so let me not be churlish in this "correction". What you're doing is incredibly useful and I do support your work. Keep it coming!
We are about to buy our first erg for our garage gym! So excited! I have been watching your videos and instagramzingness for some time now. What’s great is not only have you helped me with my own rowing technique in CrossFit but as a coach, I get to spread your magic all around! And now, WE GET TO HAVE YOU AS OUR LITTLE COACH VIA THE FORCE CURVE! Oh man! It just can’t get any better than this! Now I’m dying to head back to the gym to play around a bit. Thank you so much! Hope Dark Horse heads to the Games next year...we’d love to see you in Vendor village etc!
I only recently began rowing (about 7 weeks ago). I've been watching your videos and trying to learn whatever I can. I am enthralled! I love how you dive into the physics of this (and I hated physics!!). It is helping me understand the relationship between myself and the machine a lot!!
I was on the rowing machine today, when are you supposed to row faster/put more power into it. Our challenge from the Personal trainers are row your fastest @ maximum performance in 3 minutes. Today I got 715meters but my top lead is 745m in 3 minutes
My coach turned me on to the force curve view, but didn't fully explain how to interpret the graph. This video was super helpful to understand how to use this tool. I love how focusing on the force curve gives you yet another thing to distract your mind from watching the clock or distance count down.
Fantastic video. I have that up by default now. I also know I need to work on my legs connecting/transitioning to my hips, there's a dip in the middle of my curve (I think that's what that means, I'll rewatch and take notes this time). It's so great to have form feedback during a row instead of "only" knowing I'm going too slow too fast too erratic. Thank you!
Brilliant! I use the force curve to stay consistent, just found out the shape of my curve is off. Visualizing the rowerg on the chart is brilliant. Makes it so much easier to understand what to adjust. Thanks!!
good explanation before I follow you on youtube I found rowing boring, but since I follow you I am already looking forward to the next session. rowing is a great workout, during the period when I can't practice my other sports. stay in shape by rowing machine
For over a year I have been using my warm up and cool downs to focus on my rowing technique, including my breathing. This has helped my force curve to basically look like a shorter haystack. I do have two areas where I have consistent changes in the curve. I'll start doing my warm ups and cool downs with the force curve as a guide. See how that helps in a few months.
I have this shown all the time when Rowing. I usually get the very large spike from over pushing with the legs. Then I try to fix things as I do workouts. Great information!
@ 7:26 "Because of the arms being basically the weakest part of the stroke." Which explains why, after rowing for more than three decades, my times have always sucked. (I'm 6'3", 230lbs and _know_ for sure that I should be capable of rowing 5,000m a lot faster than I traditionally have.) So thank you for your instructions here.
My haystacks can’t get a nice peek… it’s just a gentle slope. Drag is set around 4 . I just can’t find the spot. I always feel like I pull with my hands more than I drive/push with my feet
Thanks Coach! Great explanation on the Force Curve. I am going to check it out, as I am having trouble delivering good force per strok. A former Los Angeleno now in Shanghai, China.
Ditto. I just finished watching your excellent "drag factor explanation" video. This video is also outstanding. Is Concept2 throwing you a little coin? If not, they are getting a free ride on the back of your boat with your excellent explanations of some of the larger Concept2 mysteries.
Wow this was insanely helpful. I'm just getting into using the concept 2 at the gym. I've used it for years but just for brief warmups. I've learnt so much from your channel already (and also Training Tall).
Thanks for the video, very useful tips! I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, to put the machine on it's lowest drag factor possible, and work on your curve using that setting. Would you recommend that as helpful, or better to keep to your normal drag when ironing-out the flaws?
Absolutely! If you can impact your force curve on a low damper setting it will only benefit you in the long run and teach you to deliver power without depending on heavy drag.
You don't quite understand what you're talking about: the area under the force curve is work. The goal is not what you said, but to maximize (area under force curve) * stroke rate = Power.
This is correct. The only advantage to having a haystack curve without too long a tail and/or too high a peak (assuming a constant area under the curve and stroke rate for each) is that you get more of your body involved and fatigue mightn't play as substantial a role in your pieces. Also, perhaps a lesser chance of injury.
Me: 5'9", You: 6'5". My power = Your power. My split != Your split due to your height. So don't worry about those split times people, if you are short like me.
Is actual average force and peak force important? What are good targets? At the end of the day all that matters is drive length and stroke count? Everything else is related to efficiency. Is that correct? Newbie here.
Now I’m disappointed in myself! I’ve had a Concept2 for 22 years and while I know my form isn’t atrocious, I also know it’s not perfect. I just upgraded to a PM5 and have been following lots of these videos, thinking about joining online, but wondering if I’m too old (69) to do much better... Tonight I rowed with the force curve on for the first time and found that it’s got a smooth shape throughout, but it never peaks as high as the ideal “haystack” examples you showed. My curve climbs to just above the second mark, pretty much levels off for a while, then goes down again - so it’s lower and wider than the example shown in the video. I’m strong for a senior woman (bike 40 - 70 miles at 15.5 to 16.5 mph averages on a regular basis, etc.), but guess I’m still not applying good force against the foot rests...😕
I've been trying to work with this. Something that would help me would be if you could so a split screen of the force curve synchronised to you rowing. This way, I can slow the video down and see how your stroke differs from mine (which has a peak skewed sooner than midway of a haystack).
I just bought a Concept2 model D, though I knew right away that I would never be a pro at this sport because I'm too short - 5 feet 11, but I have a long torso and short legs. The leverage generated by long legs makes a crucial difference, but anyway, it never was one of my dreams to be a olympic rower, I use this machine to warm up before weight lifting sessions. Being strong with short legs is very good for judo, though, your gravity center being low, you're gonna be harder to move around. But the Concept2 is a great machine, I must just figure out a way to get the most of my strong - but short - legs!
Tbf, there are plenty of examples of olympic rowers on the shorter side, most notably the kiwi Double from 2012, who were about 6’ and 5’10” More current examples include Sam Meijer on the gb rowing team at around 5’10” or at a stretch, even Robbie manson, who is 6’2 and at the time everyone else in the Single scull A finals being around 6’6 or taller Weight/strength is much more important than sheer size, smaller rowers make up for height “leverage” by being much wider, or stronger Smaller rowers also make use of their bodies in a different way, you can see it most in single sculls, larger rowers looking much more upright and smooth, whereas smaller scullers at similar speeds seem to have much more “backswing” You’ve just gotta work out how to be fast for your body shape, but whether your strength comes from sheer size, or trained muscle size, you’ve gotta reach a certain strength no matter the height to be fast
re: "The leverage generated by long legs makes a crucial difference"; Your strong, short legs are an advantage. From a physics point of view, having longer limbs works against having more leverage. The torque required to resist a given force rises linearly with the length of the moment arm, so longer limbs work against generating more power. To see this in the real world, look at power lifters. Many of the best have _remarkably_ short limbs. Also consider former NBA player Manute Bol. He was something like 7'-7" but struggled to bench press 135lbs. Still, taller people do have advantages in rowing. These include longer stroke length and (mostly), they have a lot more muscle actuating their long bones. Yesterday I was checking out a video of an indoor 30 minute session by GB Olympic rowing team member Cam Buchan breaking his PR; 9,000M for that time. What blew my mind was that he covered ~14 meters per stroke. That's 40% more than I normally do. _____________________________________ BTW: an aside, with a long torso and short legs, you have great proportions for surfing.
I have the sharper curve and thought that was good because i was previously opening up too quick in the beginning part of Drive. I’ve watched a lot of your videos (all great!) and have been working on keeping my hip hinge until the end of the drive. However, from this video it sounds like you should open up your hips and get the back into it earlier in the leg drive?
From the point of view of physics and mathematics, the area under that curve is maximized if it is shaped like a rectangle, not a haystack. Practically, that requires: 1. First, very quick application of force at the beginning of the stroke. 2. Then even application of force for the remainder of the stroke. ... from the point of view of trying that with a real human, step number two would be challenging. The timing between the leg-drive dominant part and the hip-drive dominant part would have to be exquisite, as would the transition from the hip-drive dominant part to the final arms-drive dominant. The arms-drive would have to be very quick and forceful.
You are brilliant in the way you explain things. Is this only for those that have a Concept2 machine? I have a WaterRower M1 HiRise and it's brilliant for me. Will this information still work for such a machine? Thank you Dark Horse
Great teaching tool!!! well, all of your info is great...my haystack starts at approx. 70% up the left side, goes to 100% peak in middle, then tapers as your haystack does. my graph does not start near the zero mark on the left of the stack. Watts are 250-325- there are no peaks and dips- very smooth. Is this OK? or is there a change needed in stroke technique? thanks!
Thank you, this is excellent information. I've tried to use this in the past and never quite understood what I was seeing. Something that I noticed for myself is that I get spots on the curve (almost always at the beginning) where I'll miss a point or two. If I only had access to one rower, I might blame the LCD panel (PM5 monitor). However, it doesn't happen all the time, and it happens on different machines. It seems like something I'm doing. My curve isn't exactly symmetrical. It's skewed a little bit to the left (I'll work on this). Do you know what I could be doing to cause the missing points?
@@DarkHorseRowing I think that was it. Tonight I made a very focused effort on legs - hips - arms and the skew almost entirely went away, and the "nicks" did too. Thanks!
Great video, going to use your tips next time on the rower to help towards a sub17 5k :) thanks for all the advices and great videos on your channel! Brg jtands
I used this setting for the first time yesterday on a 6k rowing session. Found that my normal style looked like this: /\ Basically a very sharp cone. I try and row with a lot of leg power very explosively but not so much else. Feels like I perhaps should try and use my whole body more? When I tried to open up earlier and use my arms more I ended up with a graph that looked much more attractive. Pretty much exactly like shown in the video at 5m20s. A nice longer curve. One issue I had with my both graphs though. I have a very small nick in the beginning part of the curve. It's really small but it was consistently there. Any ideas what could be causing it? I couldn't fix it no matter what I tried.
Sometimes the nick can just be the machine attempting to draw a smooth line despite not having a high pixel rate, so it looks chunky simply because it can't draw a smooth enough line...could that perhaps be it?
Thanks for this video; Couldn't be more timely for me. Have just acquired an old Concept 2 without the monitor, so I do not have the benefit of a visual curve. In my current quest to learn, I feel my legs are not doing much except moving the seat back with minimal effort. When the chain catches , then I feel I have to work to continue the stroke. Please advise what I am doing wrong. Thx.
dek, there's really no way for me to be able to coach sight unseen. I would suggest purchasing a monitor to fix to the machine so you can make sure you're able to get feedback.
I just tried this. Oh noooo. I suck. I truly think my machine is broken. 😂😂😂😂😂 I cannot seem to get the force curve to look like yours. What does it mean if there is no curve? Pretty much a straight line. I can kind of get the curve to go up. Not as high as shown. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong.
Scarlett, with a flat line it's an all around indicator that you could be putting more force into the machine. I'd suggest working on some higher damper setting pieces as well as working really hard on your catch and brace position.
![ออกพรรษาน้ำตาหล่น - แอน อรดี [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PFZtOcY9ONA/mqdefault.jpg)
4 years of rowing and now I find out about this! Thank you!!
Good video, but one physics correction. Around 4:20 (and 5:30) you say we maximize area under the curve with the haystack shape, which gives us the most force. That's not quite true. The area under the F vs t graph is work (aka energy). Work measured by the machine per stroke, and power comes from the rate at which that work is applied. Thus, if we are able to increase the amount of work (area under the force curve) at the same stroke rate, we have a higher power output and thus faster splits.
SO HELPFUL!!! I used this feature during Asensei’s Dark Horse program and learned A LOT!! My early arms on the catch showed up, my hip disengagement at times showed up and my early arm pull destroys the later half of my slope. I also used it on some pick drills to see the interactions better. Shane, you are awesome!!! Thank you!
I tried using the force curve on a 4x2000m session, it was a useful visual prompt to see when my stroke / curve started changing as I got tired making me concentrate on trying to rectify the change as much as I was able
I think this was a very informative video tutorial and I will use this graph to improve my rowing stroke as I aim to.get my first sub 7min 2000m row before I hit 50 years old.
Thanks
I started watching your videos a couple of years ago. I need to watch (many) more of them. They are really targeting the right detail for people who want to improve their rowing both off and on the water.
As a development coach of over 25yrs standing, yours are the only videos I feel I can recommend with confidence. That said, I need to challenge any aspects I find contrary to my current perception of rowing technique. On this occasion, I have to pick you up on two points: your most valiant attempt to explain the distinction between Force and Power and what the area under the (Force) curve on the Concept2 display monitor represents.
Force = MA. Correct. Power = Work/Time but Work = Force x Distance, so Power = Force x (Distance / Time) or Force x Speed (strictly Velocity but who's checking?!). So, to increase Power, you can increase the Force (I prefer to refer to it as Resistance in a rowing context) or the Speed. Our slightly different explanations arrive at the same place but I find my version a bit more digestible for the beginners I often deal with.
On the area under Force Curve, that's the Impulse (or change in Momentum) not, as you state in the video, the Force(!). As the Impulse represents the change in Speed (Velocity) of the Mass (i.e. the boat), this is what we want to maximise.
Judging by the comments already submitted, you've succeeded by whatever means to explain well enough for most people's appreciation so let me not be churlish in this "correction". What you're doing is incredibly useful and I do support your work. Keep it coming!
This may be the best video on TH-cam
Wow, thank you!
We are about to buy our first erg for our garage gym! So excited! I have been watching your videos and instagramzingness for some time now. What’s great is not only have you helped me with my own rowing technique in CrossFit but as a coach, I get to spread your magic all around! And now, WE GET TO HAVE YOU AS OUR LITTLE COACH VIA THE FORCE CURVE! Oh man! It just can’t get any better than this! Now I’m dying to head back to the gym to play around a bit. Thank you so much! Hope Dark Horse heads to the Games next year...we’d love to see you in Vendor village etc!
We'll definitely consider it. I'm so happy you guys are picking one up. Maybe we'll see you inside our program, "The Crew" next.
I only recently began rowing (about 7 weeks ago). I've been watching your videos and trying to learn whatever I can. I am enthralled! I love how you dive into the physics of this (and I hated physics!!). It is helping me understand the relationship between myself and the machine a lot!!
I'm happy it helps. I always try to brush up on my physics before something like this too so I make sure I'm getting it all correct :)
I was on the rowing machine today, when are you supposed to row faster/put more power into it. Our challenge from the Personal trainers are row your fastest @ maximum performance in 3 minutes. Today I got 715meters but my top lead is 745m in 3 minutes
Solid! Just when I thought I had this machine down!
Just trying to blow up preconceived notions :)
My coach turned me on to the force curve view, but didn't fully explain how to interpret the graph. This video was super helpful to understand how to use this tool. I love how focusing on the force curve gives you yet another thing to distract your mind from watching the clock or distance count down.
Thank you! This is incredibly helpful. I love being able to work on improving my stroke.
Yes! So glad to have given you the tools.
The force curve and this video basically taught me how row with good form. Thanks!
Fantastic video. I have that up by default now. I also know I need to work on my legs connecting/transitioning to my hips, there's a dip in the middle of my curve (I think that's what that means, I'll rewatch and take notes this time). It's so great to have form feedback during a row instead of "only" knowing I'm going too slow too fast too erratic. Thank you!
Thank you!! Love this....it will help me fix my stroke before I help others fix their strokes.
That's it Lisa! Work on yourself so you can deliver greater value to those around you.
Brilliant! I use the force curve to stay consistent, just found out the shape of my curve is off. Visualizing the rowerg on the chart is brilliant. Makes it so much easier to understand what to adjust. Thanks!!
My force curve is the 3 optimal FC. Long and medium force.
good explanation before I follow you on youtube I found rowing boring, but since I follow you I am already looking forward to the next session. rowing is a great workout, during the period when I can't practice my other sports. stay in shape by rowing machine
For over a year I have been using my warm up and cool downs to focus on my rowing technique, including my breathing. This has helped my force curve to basically look like a shorter haystack. I do have two areas where I have consistent changes in the curve. I'll start doing my warm ups and cool downs with the force curve as a guide. See how that helps in a few months.
And then report back. I want to know how it impacts your performance.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Excellent tutorial. Thanks.
I have this shown all the time when Rowing. I usually get the very large spike from over pushing with the legs. Then I try to fix things as I do workouts. Great information!
Solid Shane. It's good to know where you fall and how you can work from there to achieve what you want to go for.
Thanks for the feedback. Working on ankle mobility to keep heels from popping up. I think this will add to my rowing times.
@ 7:26 "Because of the arms being basically the weakest part of the stroke." Which explains why, after rowing for more than three decades, my times have always sucked. (I'm 6'3", 230lbs and _know_ for sure that I should be capable of rowing 5,000m a lot faster than I traditionally have.) So thank you for your instructions here.
Great info! Really enjoy your videos- you always give me a chuckle.
Wow!!! I had no idea my machine had the power curve! I love your channel for many reasons.
Great! May the Force be with you
My haystacks can’t get a nice peek… it’s just a gentle slope. Drag is set around 4 . I just can’t find the spot. I always feel like I pull with my hands more than I drive/push with my feet
Thanks Coach! Great explanation on the Force Curve. I am going to check it out, as I am having trouble delivering good force per strok. A former Los Angeleno now in Shanghai, China.
Ditto. I just finished watching your excellent "drag factor explanation" video. This video is also outstanding. Is Concept2 throwing you a little coin? If not, they are getting a free ride on the back of your boat with your excellent explanations of some of the larger Concept2 mysteries.
Amazing set of information. Such an awesome video.
Back to basics sometimes right?
Very useful info indeed. Thank you.
Outstanding video thank you
May the force be with you!
Wow this was insanely helpful. I'm just getting into using the concept 2 at the gym. I've used it for years but just for brief warmups. I've learnt so much from your channel already (and also Training Tall).
Great video - thank you Shane!
Thanks for the video, very useful tips! I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, to put the machine on it's lowest drag factor possible, and work on your curve using that setting. Would you recommend that as helpful, or better to keep to your normal drag when ironing-out the flaws?
Absolutely! If you can impact your force curve on a low damper setting it will only benefit you in the long run and teach you to deliver power without depending on heavy drag.
Very helpful worth seeing again
Such good stuff!!!
You are the best 🎉 love all of your videos
You don't quite understand what you're talking about: the area under the force curve is work. The goal is not what you said, but to maximize (area under force curve) * stroke rate = Power.
This is correct. The only advantage to having a haystack curve without too long a tail and/or too high a peak (assuming a constant area under the curve and stroke rate for each) is that you get more of your body involved and fatigue mightn't play as substantial a role in your pieces. Also, perhaps a lesser chance of injury.
Me: 5'9", You: 6'5". My power = Your power. My split != Your split due to your height. So don't worry about those split times people, if you are short like me.
Use the force!
Hey thanks for the info... I'll give it a go 👍
You're very welcome!
Is actual average force and peak force important? What are good targets? At the end of the day all that matters is drive length and stroke count? Everything else is related to efficiency. Is that correct? Newbie here.
I needed this. Questions answered.
Don't you love when we answer a question before you even have to ask?
Eye opening. 🙏🏼
@4:21 More area not equal to more force, since force is the y-axis. I think it's more work your getting at (if the x-axis is stroke distance.)
Thank you!
Now I’m disappointed in myself! I’ve had a Concept2 for 22 years and while I know my form isn’t atrocious, I also know it’s not perfect. I just upgraded to a PM5 and have been following lots of these videos, thinking about joining online, but wondering if I’m too old (69) to do much better... Tonight I rowed with the force curve on for the first time and found that it’s got a smooth shape throughout, but it never peaks as high as the ideal “haystack” examples you showed. My curve climbs to just above the second mark, pretty much levels off for a while, then goes down again - so it’s lower and wider than the example shown in the video. I’m strong for a senior woman (bike 40 - 70 miles at 15.5 to 16.5 mph averages on a regular basis, etc.), but guess I’m still not applying good force against the foot rests...😕
I've been trying to work with this. Something that would help me would be if you could so a split screen of the force curve synchronised to you rowing. This way, I can slow the video down and see how your stroke differs from mine (which has a peak skewed sooner than midway of a haystack).
I just bought a Concept2 model D, though I knew right away that I would never be a pro at this sport because I'm too short - 5 feet 11, but I have a long torso and short legs. The leverage generated by long legs makes a crucial difference, but anyway, it never was one of my dreams to be a olympic rower, I use this machine to warm up before weight lifting sessions. Being strong with short legs is very good for judo, though, your gravity center being low, you're gonna be harder to move around.
But the Concept2 is a great machine, I must just figure out a way to get the most of my strong - but short - legs!
Tbf, there are plenty of examples of olympic rowers on the shorter side, most notably the kiwi Double from 2012, who were about 6’ and 5’10”
More current examples include Sam Meijer on the gb rowing team at around 5’10” or at a stretch, even Robbie manson, who is 6’2 and at the time everyone else in the Single scull A finals being around 6’6 or taller
Weight/strength is much more important than sheer size, smaller rowers make up for height “leverage” by being much wider, or stronger
Smaller rowers also make use of their bodies in a different way, you can see it most in single sculls, larger rowers looking much more upright and smooth, whereas smaller scullers at similar speeds seem to have much more “backswing”
You’ve just gotta work out how to be fast for your body shape, but whether your strength comes from sheer size, or trained muscle size, you’ve gotta reach a certain strength no matter the height to be fast
Well said!
re: "The leverage generated by long legs makes a crucial difference"; Your strong, short legs are an advantage. From a physics point of view, having longer limbs works against having more leverage. The torque required to resist a given force rises linearly with the length of the moment arm, so longer limbs work against generating more power. To see this in the real world, look at power lifters. Many of the best have _remarkably_ short limbs. Also consider former NBA player Manute Bol. He was something like 7'-7" but struggled to bench press 135lbs.
Still, taller people do have advantages in rowing. These include longer stroke length and (mostly), they have a lot more muscle actuating their long bones. Yesterday I was checking out a video of an indoor 30 minute session by GB Olympic rowing team member Cam Buchan breaking his PR; 9,000M for that time. What blew my mind was that he covered ~14 meters per stroke. That's 40% more than I normally do.
_____________________________________
BTW: an aside, with a long torso and short legs, you have great proportions for surfing.
Oh my.. I have a LOT to work on.. but this was really valuable information.. I can only improve! Lol
Great Heather! Commit to the process.
I have the sharper curve and thought that was good because i was previously opening up too quick in the beginning part of Drive. I’ve watched a lot of your videos (all great!) and have been working on keeping my hip hinge until the end of the drive. However, from this video it sounds like you should open up your hips and get the back into it earlier in the leg drive?
Thanks. Interesting. The video would have more displays with a different title
I just did your beginning workout video, my force on the machine though is only 65 and 85 peak. Am I just not ripping through the leg drive enough?
From the point of view of physics and mathematics, the area under that curve is maximized if it is shaped like a rectangle, not a haystack. Practically, that requires:
1. First, very quick application of force at the beginning of the stroke.
2. Then even application of force for the remainder of the stroke.
... from the point of view of trying that with a real human, step number two would be challenging. The timing between the leg-drive dominant part and the hip-drive dominant part would have to be exquisite, as would the transition from the hip-drive dominant part to the final arms-drive dominant. The arms-drive would have to be very quick and forceful.
You are brilliant in the way you explain things. Is this only for those that have a Concept2 machine? I have a WaterRower M1 HiRise and it's brilliant for me. Will this information still work for such a machine? Thank you Dark Horse
Great teaching tool!!! well, all of your info is great...my haystack starts at approx. 70% up the left side, goes to 100% peak in middle, then tapers as your haystack does. my graph does not start near the zero mark on the left of the stack. Watts are 250-325- there are no peaks and dips- very smooth. Is this OK? or is there a change needed in stroke technique? thanks!
Great Video! could you do the equivalent on the skierg?
Thank you, this is excellent information. I've tried to use this in the past and never quite understood what I was seeing. Something that I noticed for myself is that I get spots on the curve (almost always at the beginning) where I'll miss a point or two. If I only had access to one rower, I might blame the LCD panel (PM5 monitor). However, it doesn't happen all the time, and it happens on different machines. It seems like something I'm doing. My curve isn't exactly symmetrical. It's skewed a little bit to the left (I'll work on this). Do you know what I could be doing to cause the missing points?
Check the response I gave to Ratatosk80 above...do you think that could be the issue?
@@DarkHorseRowing I think that was it. Tonight I made a very focused effort on legs - hips - arms and the skew almost entirely went away, and the "nicks" did too. Thanks!
My curve looks like the right half of the haystack!
This was so useful. Determined I have a catch-focussed drive (apparently) with a long tail. Any suggestions? Do I need to strengthen my upper body?
Subbed
Great video, going to use your tips next time on the rower to help towards a sub17 5k :) thanks for all the advices and great videos on your channel! Brg jtands
Hope I can do this on PM4 machine!
Everything from PM3 and up.
Yep tried it today!@@DarkHorseRowing
I used this setting for the first time yesterday on a 6k rowing session. Found that my normal style looked like this: /\ Basically a very sharp cone. I try and row with a lot of leg power very explosively but not so much else. Feels like I perhaps should try and use my whole body more? When I tried to open up earlier and use my arms more I ended up with a graph that looked much more attractive. Pretty much exactly like shown in the video at 5m20s. A nice longer curve.
One issue I had with my both graphs though. I have a very small nick in the beginning part of the curve. It's really small but it was consistently there. Any ideas what could be causing it? I couldn't fix it no matter what I tried.
Sometimes the nick can just be the machine attempting to draw a smooth line despite not having a high pixel rate, so it looks chunky simply because it can't draw a smooth enough line...could that perhaps be it?
Thanks for this video; Couldn't be more timely for me. Have just acquired an old Concept 2 without the monitor, so I do not have the benefit of a visual curve. In my current quest to learn, I feel my legs are not doing much except moving the seat back with minimal effort. When the chain catches , then I feel I have to work to continue the stroke. Please advise what I am doing wrong. Thx.
dek, there's really no way for me to be able to coach sight unseen. I would suggest purchasing a monitor to fix to the machine so you can make sure you're able to get feedback.
Is that feature on the PM2 too?
Is the curve the same for the ski erg ?
Its not that is "wrong" or "right" It is more effective mechanic (power output) or its not
Nice! A world without Physics, just doesn't make sense!
whats the name of the song in the beginning
I just tried this. Oh noooo. I suck. I truly think my machine is broken. 😂😂😂😂😂 I cannot seem to get the force curve to look like yours. What does it mean if there is no curve? Pretty much a straight line. I can kind of get the curve to go up. Not as high as shown. I can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong.
Scarlett, with a flat line it's an all around indicator that you could be putting more force into the machine. I'd suggest working on some higher damper setting pieces as well as working really hard on your catch and brace position.