You Won't Believe How Much Money I Save With My Cheap Nissan Leaf?
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#Nissan #Leaf #EV
We've owned a Chevy Bolt EV since January 2017. We've got solar on our home shortly after, so mostly we drive on sunshine. Last Fall, at about 62,000 miles, GM replaced the battery at no charge to us. GM changed the battery due to a recall for potential fire risk. At that point we had not noticed any battery range degradation. The new battery is slightly larger so we have even greater range, ~260 miles EPA rated. We have over 71,000 miles now and we charge it almost exclusively at home using a level 2 charger (220 volt AC). We have driven our Bolt on several long road trips, the longest was 2,000 mile RT to Texas. Our only maintenance costs have been tires, windshield wipers and cabin air filter. We have reservations for a Rivian R1S and a Chevy Silverado EV, whichever we get first will replace our other vehicle, a Chevy Colorado. We love our EV.
EVs are awesome, aren’t they? :)
Interesting my neighbors towed there Leaf from Colorado to South Carolina and after a bit of a reality check HERE bought a Fossil car to supplement it on Trips
@@tommays56 it’s the car, how you plan trips, and if your okay taking 30 min every so often. You cannot take the direct route(most 10 hr trips add 15 mins from this) then add 30 min charge 3 times add another 1 hr 30 mins. So it matters what kind of trip person you car. If your okay being more relax and taking your time ev is fine with a little bit of planning if you rush and want to get point a to b as fast as possible it isn’t the best option. All this is mute for Tesla since the charge network is resale good.
@@richardmenz3257 90% of people dont need range. Solution when going on trips - just rent a car
I can say the same about my 2019 Bolt Premier. About 80K miles on it now, extremely reliable, ridiculously cheap to operate, great range, 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, bird's eye view cameras, built-in battery management system - really, the only thing I could wish for is a moonroof.
Hope to drive my Bolt for as long as I can. It's a masterpiece.
I like how Nathan strikes me as an off-road and bigger vehicle kind of guy, but he’s also out here advocating for the Leaf. I think the Leaf and others like it make a ton of sense for around-town. Great video!
It is SO EASY to take care of the battery pack in a Nissan Leaf. With what we've learned over the last 12 years there's no reason to experience premature capacity loss. Nearly all of those owners experiencing issue with capacity loss have been their own worst enemy. There are well known scenarios that raise battery core temperatures into the red zone where damage occurs (core temperatures typically above 115F). Driving for extended periods above 80 mph can significantly raise core temperatures. DCFC (rapid chargers), will significantly raise core temperatures. Doing these two things combined with ambient temperatures above 95F (think Arizona daytime highs of over 110F), and you begin to significantly affect battery capacity. Indeed, many of the owners that experienced premature capacity loss where from Arizona and admitted to routinely driving over 80 mph and frequently using DCFC charging stations. Owners that live in more temperate climates and drive their Leafs at more normal speeds greatly reduce the incidence of premature capacity loss. Charging only at home using Level 1 (120V) or Level 2 (240V) chargers will also aid in greatly extending battery life.
Keep in mind as well that the early Leaf batteries were very small at only 24kWh and 30kWh. Being so small meant they needed to be "fully" charged each time and charged far more often in order to get any usefulness out of the vehicle. Both of these actions increase the rate of capacity loss. Some owners were charging two or more times each day which quickly exhausted the number of charge cycles they were designed to endure. SIZE MATTERS when it comes to EV battery life. I have two Leafs, a 2015 SV and a 2019 SV Plus. My 2015 has 65k miles and the battery still has 84% of its original capacity (SOH). It never gets driven above 75 mph and is always charged at home. My 2019 has the much larger 62kWh battery and after 30k miles is still showing 95% SOH. The 2019 SV Plus only needs to be charged once a week which should help the battery last well beyond 200,000 miles.
@@Tron-Jockey explains why my 2013 has gone from 70+max to 50-60max in the three year's I've had it: three oregon summers and charging up to four times in a day while doing grubhub. at least I didn't fast charge or go over 80mph haha
I live with my two adult sons...they keep telling me that the first gen Leaf is an ugly car!...I really disagree, I think it has "character"...and I soon will be purchasing a first gen model...for well under 10 grand...the newer Leafs are better cars, but they are pricey, around 35 grand!..For an old guy like me, who drives maybe 70 miles a week (I am retired!). this vehicle will be perfect for me. There are quite a few, low-mileage first gen Leafs for sale in my area...it's amazing how most folks really do not put many miles on them! So, battery life will not be a major problem, for a long time.
I have a 2018 LEAF with 15,000 miles on it. It has been fast charged exactly once in its life (before I bought it) and I still get the rated 150 miles of range from it. It cannot be overstated how fast charging the LEAF shortens its battery life. Another worthy point is don't charge the battery when it's hot. I use the charge timer to have a full battery by morning when I need to leave for work and that gives the battery time to cool off when I get home. The timer also makes sure my battery is warm in the morning when I leave for work on cold NE Ohio days. I love my little LEAF. With solar on the house, it's as if gas became free. Oh, and I don't miss gas stations one little bit.
It might be worth your while to buy a $12 OBDII sensor and run LeafSpy. I thought I had only charged my Leaf at L3 five or six times over the seven years of the new battery, but it shows 154 DC charge events (and over 6300 L1/L2 charges.) I know I have the 6.6kW charger...maybe sometimes it finds an L2 source so overpowered that it reads it as an L3 charge.
LeafSpy sure put the lie to the car telling me it had three miles of range...by showing me there was still 26% of a charge.
Also, a yearly L3 charge will break the "stalactites" that form in the batteries; it also gives me 2-4 miles of range back at the same 80% charge (according to the Guess-o-meter.)
FWIW, I have a 2011; Nisan replaced the battery seven years ago under the Klee class action. My little science-projectmobile has been closely scrutinised.
Can you tell me how you charged your leaf with solar? Did you use direct DC charging or did you just use the AC house plug?
@@jimbo7577 I have 12 KW of panels on the roof integrated with the house. I have a level 2 charger on the house. (Actually we have 2 level two chargers and two EVs now) For the best versatility with solar I like the OpenEVSE because I can control the charge rate through MQTT over wifi to make the best use of my solar.
@@ericapelz260 good info, thank you for the response 👍
Yeah, and when you drive your leaf by a pedestrian you are no longer literally killing them. Ice Motorists are especially harmful to pedestrians, and anything with lungs, if they have an old vintage vehicle, or a giant diesel truck, like so many people are fond of.
I really don't get paying $100,000 for a humongous diesel truck I don't need. I'm pretty sure this is a simulation, cause reality has become off the charts absurd.
It is SO EASY to take care of the battery pack in a Nissan Leaf. With what we've learned over the last 12 years there's no reason to experience premature capacity loss. Nearly all of those owners experiencing issue with capacity loss have been their own worst enemy. There are well known scenarios that raise battery core temperatures into the red zone where damage occurs (core temperatures typically above 115F). Driving for extended periods above 80 mph can significantly raise core temperatures. DCFC (rapid chargers), will significantly raise core temperatures. Doing these two things combined with ambient temperatures above 95F (think Arizona daytime highs of over 110F), and you begin to significantly affect battery capacity. Indeed, many of the owners that experienced premature capacity loss where from Arizona and admitted to routinely driving over 80 mph and frequently using DCFC charging stations. Owners that live in more temperate climates and drive their Leafs at more normal speeds greatly reduce the incidence of premature capacity loss. Charging only at home using Level 1 (120V) or Level 2 (240V) chargers will also aid in greatly extending battery life.
Keep in mind as well that the early Leaf batteries were very small at only 24kWh and 30kWh. Being so small meant they needed to be "fully" charged each time and charged far more often in order to get any usefulness out of the vehicle. Both of these actions increase the rate of capacity loss. Some owners were charging two or more times each day which quickly exhausted the number of charge cycles they were designed to endure. SIZE MATTERS when it comes to EV battery life. I have two Leafs, a 2015 SV and a 2019 SV Plus. My 2015 has 65k miles and the battery still has 84% of its original capacity (SOH). It never gets driven above 75 mph and is always charged at home. My 2019 has the much larger 62kWh battery and after 30k miles is still showing 95% SOH. The 2019 SV Plus only needs to be charged once a week which should help the battery last well beyond 200,000 miles.
UPDATE, Spring 2024: It's also been shown that leaving the Leaf at 100% charge affects the aging rate of the battery. I used to put my 2016 on the charger as soon as I got home from work. This would replenish the 15kWh used during the day in about 3 hours then sit at 100% for about 10-12 hours every night. I would also put the Leaf on the charger when I got home on Friday evenings and leave it there until Monday morning. Overnight affects are tiny but cumulative. The effects from sitting at 100% over an entire weekend (every weekend) are a lot worse. I now charge to 100% only when I intend to use the vehicle immediately. I believe this has greatly slowed the rate of degradation.
Other things that help are charging at night when the temperature is cooler, and not leaving it fully charged for extended periods. I have a charging schedule set in my car (not a Leaf) so it always charges overnight, unless I need to override it and have it charge sooner for some reason. If your car doesn't have the ability to set a schedule, there are some EVSE chargers that support scheduling. If I know I'm not going anywhere the next day, I won't even plug it in.
2016 Leaf owner here. Car just hit 75k and I finally lost the first bar on the battery. 99% charged at home at 240V.
@@bobbbobb4663 - Excellent. That further verifies that Nissan has corrected their battery chemistry issues. The 2016 Leaf was found to have a BMS software bug that incorrectly reported accelerated capacity loss. Glad to see that the chemistry itself was not the culprit.
@@Tron-Jockey Thanks for the info. I’ve had all recalls done on the car so I am running the new software (whenever they fixed it).
We have a 2013 Leaf (exact same color as yours and also sans-hubcaps, which really upsets my wife) which we bought for $10k in 2015 and it had 19k miles at the time. It now has 66k miles and the range has decreased from 84 miles when new to us down to about 70 miles today in warm weather. Don't talk to me about the range when cold. It's terrible. But it's been absolutely wonderful to have as a daily runabout and we put an estimated 90% of our annual miles on it, keeping a Subaru Outback on standby for longer trips. It's been one of the best purchases we've ever made. Zero mechanical issues to date, and I've only replaced tires, windshield wipers, and 12v batteries. It seemed to eat those like candy there for a while until they did a software update a couple of years ago, and it's been much better since then.
Noel, during the winter I trickle charge my 12 v battery twice a month or so, during the summer I do it every 5/6 weeks. If these older L.E.A.F.'s had CCS, oh the pleasure it would bring...(ours is a 2016 SL 30)
I'm about 3 minutes into your video which I'm enjoying and will continue watching but.. I feel like I wanna say "dude!, the very reason I was able to buy a 2013 Leaf SV for the insanely low price of $6,995 back in 2016 was because people didn't want them, now you're trying to help them understand why they should get one. Soon there won't be any good deals left." Although I know this to be true, I too have encouraged others to purchase one of these inexpensive, entry level EV's. I've had mine for six years now, the range is down to about 60 miles now (more than enough for my daily commute) and in those 6 years the only thing I've needed to purchase is tires (they where almost new when I bought it, I'm on my third set), and wipers (I'm on my 5th set). That's it! Heck even the brakes are still factory thanks to the regenerative braking.
I don't know how much money this car has saved me over the years (no smog checks, no oil changes, no belts, no hoses, no radiator, no transmission, the list goes on) and more importantly.. NO GAS!
ZERO emissions!! Heck, zero maintenance!
Maybe you'll get into it later in the video but the one thing I tell people though you really have to experience it for yourself is just how much fun it is to drive this car! I'm in my 60's and I've owned a lot of cars but this is by far my favorite! It's also the ugliest car I've ever owned but once I'm in the driver seat I forget about that. All that torque can sure be a lot of fun, especially when the light turns green!
NOT ugly . . . . . cute ! Love my 2015 Leafster . take care, rh
I really enjoy hearing about THIS car. More affordable EVs are far more interesting than the usual SUV EVs that have more infotainment than actual usefulness. Mahalo for this report!
I just hope folks watching this don't get the wrong ideas about all evs losing their range like this cause the Nissan lacked liquid cooling.
I've had my Chevrolet Spark EV since October 2019. It was a lease return. I got it with 13,649 miles. I paid $8828 for it. The battery range sucks in the winter (54 miles). Pretty good in the summer (100 miles). The battery degradation is very minimal since I got it 15,000 miles ago. I do fast charge it at the local Chevrolet dealer ( 22 KW) up to 90%.
I wish that people could really try these vehicles out. I absolutely just love the car. It is quick, easy to park and gets great miles/kw when under 35 mph.
Yup, nearly anything else will have better battery life just from active thermal management. Still love my 2018 LEAF, though.
I just sold my 2013 leaf that I had for the past six years for $2k more than I paid for it. Car was flawless with zero issues or needs. Icing on the cake is I charged it for free for the last 4 years. Essentially a nearly free car.
Hearing someone taking advantage of free charging makes my day. There should be more free charging.
what did you sell it for
@@CloroxBleach-hi6jd $10,500
@@acamilop pretty impressive considering the market for those is much lower than that
@@CloroxBleach-hi6jd I sold it last summer during the peak. Timing was perfect.
The Leaf was the best run around town car that I bought. Saves so much money compared to driving a truck.
This example is exactly what I was thinking. Your daughter does not have to pay for gas or electricity (when charging at home). This gives her freedom or more money for other things. People in England have put 62KW batteries in their Leafs after 10 years and more than doubled range.
This is the way to do it to save on gas. Not buying a new $60k car to "save" on gas.
Older Leaf's are about the only cheap used EVs you can get. Early Bolts are probably reasonable. Other cheap EVs are rare since most EVs are either Tesla's or recently released higher end models from the last couple years. Used Tesla's cost more than a brand new one. Obviously, there's a reason an old Leaf is cheap. 75 miles of range.
@@Josh-179 Kia Soul EVs are often overlooked but suffer the same limitations as the Leaf
you are crazy, you can grab one used for 6-8K
Unless you are already in the market for a $60k car…..
New Leaf is only $30K!
I inherited a 2015 Leaf. My old man bought it a couple years ago and I was uninterested because of the range. Now he cant drive anymore and it's mine. I have to say I love this car. Got 220v in my garage and it charges fast. I work 10 miles away and rarely have to drive more then 15 miles away. I got an ICE vehicle for longer trips. But I got to say this is fine for most around the town trips and I only put gas in my ICE vehicle maybe once every three months now. Before the leaf it was like once a week 50 bucks for the super unleaded my turbo car requires. The leaf is surprisingly fast too. I really like this car for what it is.
Hi I have question.. planning to buy leaf 2013, with 4 white bars (2 red ones) left.. will it last 2 years? I'm a college student and won't drive that much .. just around Los Angeles
I have my Nissan Leaf 2013 that I bought in 2014. Saved hundreds of thousands of dollars.
Nate, glad to see the update. My wife and I own a 2016 SL, 30 kWh. We love the car. 54k miles on it, only purchased a set of tires, and wiper blades, we are down 3 bars, as soon as the 4th drops we will be going in for our warranty repair. They do not make the 30 kWh battery any longer, so they will update it with the 40 kWh unit. About 160 miles range when new. I will definitely let you know when and how that works out. We love our "nerdy' car as we have been told it looks odd. Only the headlights I would change!! 2 weeks ago when gas hit $5 a gallon did we start getting questions on the car. Twice in one day. Never happened in 3.5 years. When we first got it with15k miles, the battery was like new, it was rated for 107 miles per charge. Just driving around town without heat or AC, no highway driving, we would get 140 miles on a charge. Less then $3 for electricity plugged in at home. It's odd, just about every 10k miles a bar drops off, 1st time was at 30k EXACTLY. I was driving, I hit 30k, drove a few more miles, shut off the car, went into the store, came out, started it (turned on) and boom, a bar was gone. Nothing more of a gut punch when the first one drops.
Similar events happened to my 2016 leaf sv on 2 occasions, I’ve had battery pack replaced twice all under warranty. Second time was June 2021 and so far no bars have been lost. Cross my fingers😆
@@misterg4059 I'm curious Mister G, what size pack was installed in June 2021? What is the range now?
@@jimclay1969 I don’t know battery size but the day I picked up at universal Nissan it read 158 miles of range but quickly dropped to 138 miles. Today it ranges from 132-138 when fully charged but quickly drops to 128 once a/c is turned on. My a/c is blowing hot air though and I’m procrastinating on taking to stealership 😆
@@misterg4059 Thank you. Sounds like they did in fact replace it with the 40 kWh battery. Have you ever used leaf spy on this ? Thanks for the quick reply this morning and hopefully years of enjoyment from this new unit
@@jimclay1969 leaf spy? I don’t know what that is but I’ll look into it. Thanks
I appreciate how Nathan is an all around car guy, not someone stuck in a niche. It's a good video about the old Leaf model. It is limited, can be inconvenient, is not anywhere near the range and battery longevity of newer EVs...BUT...dang they're cheap right now. And when your car is getting 10-15mpg in stop and go traffic as you take an hour to move 10-20 miles, that Leaf is great! If you don't have that kind of commute, that's great, the fewer people who suffer through that the better.
Nathan. Studies have shown that cold weather does not degrade the battery long term. It simply reduces range. Hot weather is a different story if your battery is air cooled. Modern electric cars do not have these issues, which is why you are now getting long warranties on the battery. The 2016 Leaf is an extreme scenario.
Kyle at Out of Spec has a Model 3 with over 100,000 miles and DC fast charges A LOT and saw only 1% degradation per year I think.
Bought my 2012 Leaf in Jan 2017 for $8500. Made sure I found one that was originally late off the lot and still had battery warranty. Found one with 10k miles and 9 months remaining with 3 bars down in capacity. Lost the 4th bar 3 months and 4k miles layer so Nissan replacement was free. After that the next two years I put on 40k miles plugging in to a 110v outlet at home. I still have it, my wife drives it on her under 5 mile commute to work while I drive my longer range EV. I could turn around and sell that Leaf for more than I paid for it now, great little car.
Not a full EV, but even at 10 years old I can regularly get over the EPA rated range for my 2012 Chevy Volt. Spent $75 (Canadian $) on gas since March because I drive further occasionally, but even when I do use gas I am able to get 42-43mpg.
I have a 2011 Japanese-made Leaf since August 2010. Since then, we proudly owned and driven it. Last 14 years, it had ZERO problems. 6 months ago, when it was around 260,000 km, the battery was very degraded, and we wanted to see the options to buy a new leaf or a newer year model leaf or just replace the battery. All new leaf and newer model leaves are made in the US, and workmanship and craftmanship quality are not even near to Japanese made. We have to admit that. Japanese-made is very well made. Anyway, we ended up getting a new battery. We found a 62 KW battery with some additional modifications, like shocks and spring replacement since e62 Kw is much heavier; now our leaf has a second life with a 450 km single charge. If you can find a Leaf 2011-2012, Japanese made with NBOT beat up so much, buy it and replace the battery; you won't regret it. I don't understand people spending 80K-90K on new EV cars and making car payments every month. Thats crazy. Do you wanna save money or waste money? Ask yourself that question.
that is exactly why i bought a used Chevy Bolt one year ago and not the Nissan leaf.. the battery is thermally controlled in the bolt. A bolt battery with 100,000 miles on it will have at MOST 8-10% loss of range.
Even better - the Bolt will probably have a new battery in it if it's had the recall done. For those of use outside the US though...the LEAF is the only option.
We bought a 2011 Leaf SL new...with CHaDeMo charging stock...by buying the floor model. In 135,000 km (85K miles,) we've put on two sets of tyres and wiper blades, an air filter, and a bottle of blue coolant. When petrol was $3.11/gal, it cost 86% less per mile than our PT Cruiser. Nissan put a new battery in seven years ago, and it's at 68% SOH. I still get 50+ miles out of an 80% charge, and 97% (200 GIDs) gets over 70 miles, and that's with a 40-mile freeway run. It also cost 60% less than the Tesla S (the only other production EV at the time.)
I sure hope I can get another battery for it, now that Nissan cancelled my order $12K for a 40kWh replacement. (Stupid Ariya.)
This gives people an idea about alternative vehicle options. It’s not the family trip vehicle but it’ll work for most commutes. Also it beats an electric scooter on a hot summer day.
I love my electric scooter for these hot days. Riding in 100 degrees feels good when the wind is hitting you. I used to ride a bike and would be a sweaty mess. Now nice and cool. Maybe you just need a faster scooter ;)
@@TheAdventureAuto lol yeah I got one of those too. It replaces my car for shorter commutes or going around town with the kid in front.
@@adamchoi8136 I bet your kid loves the 40mph wind on a warm day. Scooters are the best.
All this battery degradation is actually really a problem of the Nissan Leaf. And perhaps the earliest Mitsubishis. All the other EVs don't have this problem, or at least not that sever.
For example, a 2017 Ioniq or Bolt will have near 100% battery capacity.
But the upside is that older Leafs like this one, are capable of having their battery packs refurbished for around the same cost as fitting a clutch to an ICE car..... It can make these older Leafs a good buy if you get one cheap.....
@@Brian-om2hh Here in the Netherlands there is a company that adds batteries in the cargo space and can exchange the original battery for a newer one. So a 24kWh Leaf can become a 80kWh Leaf!
I have a 2017 Leaf S, and my experience mirrors everyone else's. No trouble with it, some battery degradation, and just love not going to a gas station. How long does it take to charge? About 10 seconds, plug it in before bed. My only advice, don't get the base S. It doesn't allow you to easily charge to a set %, so I end up charging to 100% often. And while it has heated seats, no heated steering wheel. Considering the range hit it has in the cold, and the heater doesn't get real hot, a heated steering wheel with seats would be fine in 40-50⁰ weather without running the main heater much, preserving range. And hopefully the SV and SL have a better radio, the radio in the S is hot garbage. For spoken word only.
And where do you think the power/electricity comes from genius. Its comes from Coal, Gas or Nuclear all carbon based. Are they not teaching that in Communist High School anymore. Also the chemicals in that battery have to be mined in Africa. More destruction and death to people who have to go down into those places to risk their lives for a few dollars so that you can look cool and talk out through your ass. You have officially been conned with yr S heap 🤭
The 2 Nissan Leafs I see in my area look exactly the same...grey with no hubcaps...glad you're enjoying it Nathan!! Save on gas!!😃
Another thing that helps prevent battery degradation in first-gen Leafs is to NOT plug in immediately after arriving home, but let the battery cool down for at least 30 minutes before plugging in.
I had a 2012 Leaf and a 2012 Focus Electric (both had pretty bad degradation). The leaf had no liquid cooling system for the battery but the Focus did. I currently have a 2012 Rav4 EV which is liquid cooled. I am still able to get 120 miles at 80% capacity which is more than it claimed new (best not to charge over 80%). This depends on the driver and conditions of course. I always slow charge with the cars stock charger. Although this was considered a compliance car, Toyota and Tesla (battery and motor) did a great job.
The "guess o meter" in the Leaf and Focus Electric were not very accurate; whereas, the Rav4 seems to be right on most of the time.
Thanks TFLEV for the great content!
I’ve never heard of a RAV4 EV. I know there’s the Prime that just came out but a 2012 RAV4 EV????
This is news to me
@@ashrafc7794 Yeah it was only sold mostly in California look up the Hyundai ioniq electric it’s a very good cartoon on that one and did a review on my channel
Toyota worked with Tesla to convert their Rav4 to an ev for the California market. They only made a few thousand from 2012-2014.
I have a 2014 Nissan Leaf that I brought it in 2016 for NZ$18k it had 26,000km, 6 years later it has done 117,000km and with today's fuel price in my country our old ICE vehicle would cost me around $150 per week as our fuel price is $3 per lt or $11.40 per US gallon vs just $15 with 14 cents per kwh.
The only service it has had is the gear reduction fluid changed when I got the EV and again at 100,000km, as well as the cabin filters which I did myself.
So in my country and at $135 per week cost savings over 6 years is an eye watering saving of $42k in fuel savings alone!
Yes it's battery health is down to 74% battery health or around 15kwh from the original net capacity of 21 kwh true capacity (24kwh gross) but wow $40k saved which is not bad for an 8 year old EV.
I also abuse the battery always charge to 100% and charge every single day.
I am in the same boat. Least expensive way to get around the county. Windshield wiper broke and tires wore out. Thats it!
My wife has been driving her 2015 Leaf for 7 years now, and I have a Bolt. We have saved a ton of money driving both cars.
Her leaf still has about 80% battery capacity but it can drive across the metro area in winter still.
Its the easiest car in the world to drive and maintain though.
we love our Leafs. Our 3 year old Leaf Pluses still show well over 200 miles of range.
No Leaf has had a battery fire ! When your battery needs replacing.. the 40KwHour battery will fit right in and it will double or tripple your range... and last longer too. You old battery will be worth a couple of thousand bucks... which will help with the cost of the new one ( probably from a wrecked low mileage leaf). The car will probably go 1 million miles. So, with 130 miles of range.. it will be a whole new ballgame.
I had a '15 Leaf SL. I loved it and never had to pay to charge it. I was a tech at a Nissan dealer and charged it at work. Had it for 2 years and my range was about 110 miles.
I also drive a used 2015 Nissan Leaf. It gets me to and from work plus some. The heated seats and heated steering wheel really help with range during the cold winter months here in Southern Oregon.
Thank you for this honest update/review. This is why I like you Nathan. Straight up, down to earth, no BS/exaggeration/coddling a vehicle. It is what it is. And this is 1 reason I have not run out to buy an EV for my garage.(amongst many other reasons) I am not in the flip it stage of life. It is more economical in the long run to NOT have disposable vehicles. I flipped a fair share of vehicles in my life that were supposed to be get me by's but, in the short term(and long)they cost me more money than just buying 1 good reliable vehicle.
The Nissan Leaf is one of the few exceptions and not the normal for electric cars. It was one of the few EV's to not have a thermal managed battery and it shows. EV's that do have a thermal managed battery (which the vast majority do) see very minimal battery degradation over time.
Cool! I just bought a 2019 LEAF SL Plus with only 7K on it. It is my first EV. Loving it!
Bravo, Nate! Your daughter has a great pops btw. 🤙🏼
In BC, Canada our residential rate for electrons is CAD9.5cents / kWh, rising to 14cents if you exceed a certain amount within your 60day billing cycle (Step rate they call it).
What’s the rate in Boulder?
Gasoline? Chevron regular today: $CAD 2.33/litre = $US 6.89/USGal
Diesel $CAD 2.46/litre = $US 7.28/USGal
I owned a 2013 S and a 2015 SV (wife totaled both). I loved them. Hyper miling was actually fun. They were our only cars for a period of time so anything 60 miles round trip (at 45 mph) was just doable. But I'm not going anywhere else. I test drove a Bolt when they first came out and it felt like I was stuffing myself into a model airplane. Very tight quarters and overwhelming dash (compared to the LEAFs). I want to go back to an electric but my current physical body requires a little more room than most offer. As well as pricing for longer ranged vehicles. I would go with a 2018 or newer LEAF since my driving requirements are much less than the 150-200+ mile range. I have a level 2 charging station (free) just 2 miles from my house. I get it to 80% bring her home and level 1 till full. Enjoy yours.
Tried to buy a Nissan Leaf last year before gas prices went nuts. Someone swiped it from us 20 minutes before we got to the dealer. It was only 8k. I lost big time. Still driving an Expedition Max as my daily at $5 a gallon.
I bought a Focus Electric last year so I could park my Expedition. GM cut prices on the Bolt. At these gas prices most of the payment will be covered by fuel savings.
got mine in 2011 an still loving it. everyone in the family always drove off with it, very popular with us
We got a used Leaf Plus, and taking all costs into account (including parking meters), after work mileage reimbursements, it turned into a net positive after 2 1/2 years. Of course, that was high-mileage of ~2000 miles a month, till we got an IONIQ 6 and the Leaf became our 2nd car.
2013 volt, 130k miles, zero degredation. getting 50 miles per charge now lol... use it every day all the time. put 30k miles on it in the last year and saved 2.5k in gas. paid 7k for it, now its apparently worth 8.5k. will pay for itself in about 18-24 months lol. getting over 1500 miles per 10 gal tank. zero range loss... i repeat, brand new my car gets like 32-38 miles of range lol. i expanded the 12v system with 4kwh of lifepo4 and added 200w of solar to the roof. solar paid for itself in a few months, battery will pay itself off by the end of the year.
Nissan will replace the battery if you lose 5 bars out of 12 during the warranty period. We bought a 2017 Leaf in April of 2020 with 38K miles that had only 7 bars of battery capacity. That car came with a 30KW battery new. I'm guessing it must have been fast charged frequently. Nissan replaced the battery with a 40KW battery at no charge and we've put almost 30K miles on the car in just less than 4 years. We still have 12 bars of battery capacity, but the range has dropped to about 145 miles on a full charge where it was about 170 when the battery was new. Of course, it depends on whether you stay on surface streets or use it on the highway, and the outside temperature plays a big part in the usable range. Fortunately, here in the Phoenix area it never gets as cold as it does in Boulder, CO. By charging during super off-peak hours (11:00 pm to 5:00 AM) my cost for fuel averages about 1.5 cents per mile, about 1/8th what I paid for fuel on my Mazda 3 which is a very similar sized car. The car has needed one rather expensive repair, we had to replace the Power Distribution Module at 52K miles and that was a bit over $4000. For some reason, this car seems to be hard on rear tires, we've bought two sets in 30K miles. Other than that it has been inexpensive to operate. It's been a good car for the purpose, which is a city car, with limited highway use. We've never fast charged it, and probably never will. If you have to pay 35 cents per Kw Hr. at a commercial charging station it's as expensive as buying gas at today's prices where regular gas is around $3.00.
I bought a used Kia Soul ev and have had similar experience (other than the drop in range) it’s been great!
kia is trash
Thanks for the review. Have you considered doing a video on what your options are on in replacing your battery? An example cost from Nissan, compared with a 3rd party option (New) compared to a used pack cost. I know Dorman products makes Hybrid batteries but do they make full size batteries too? How about cost of labor on battery change outs, is your general garage able to replace a battery or is that dealer only? Oh one more thing those early Leafs do have a oil in their 1speed trans that should be changed just a fyi. Thanks again on the video.
I think theres also companys that refurbish batteries by changing bad modules
We've got a 2015 Soul EV, which has similar battery issues to these older Leafs. Ours had a warranty battery replacement back in 2017 at 40k miles which worked great until this past year or so when our pack capacity/range has been steadily declining from around 80-85 miles range in March 2021 to about 40 miles today in June 2022. We got about 65k miles of good use out of the second pack though, and have about 75k since the pack was replaced. We recently spoke with the service folks at a local Kia dealer who advised us that remanufactured batteries are theoretically available for about $3000 parts cost, but they are on long backorders and have at least one customer who had been waiting since December for theirs (almost 6 months on backorder). According to the parts department at another local Kia dealer, they will only place orders for remanufactured packs based on service orders from Kia service departments.
We just picked up an old Leaf and use it to just run errands within 5 miles of the house or so. Saves us a ton on gas and we don't care if it gets door dinged in parking lots.
I have 2 Leafs we drive daily. One a 2014 and another 2020 long range.I love them much more than any of our past gas vehicles. We have taken our leaf on longer trips but its a pain and takes a lot more planning. Not because its electric, but strictly do to the phasing out of the Chadmo chargers. CCS and tesla are all over the place and charge faster. I would have prefered to have a bolt for longer range trips but when we bought it they were nowhere to be found near us.
I would like to pick up both the new Hummer EV and the Tesla Model S Plaid. However, My budget calls for me to drive my old Suzuki 200 back and forth to work...
Not sure about the Leaf.. buy the Prius I owned cooled/heated the battery from a Vent in back seat near the door.. SO if you don't use your AC (not working or trying to get better mileage) you will not be cooling your battery.. also the location on the Prius was easily covered by stuff in back seat or your dog laying over the vent.. again no cooling.
Rule of thumb is that gas car at 35 mpg will cost .14cents/mile and EV about .04cents/per mile (charging from home).. saving about $1200 a year (12,000 miles yr).
Of course if you have to replace the battery after warranty (8yrs) that will be 6-9000 dollars..
Good for you that your car is worth more than you paid for it..
I bought a 10 year old leaf for my daughter it has 9 bars and a real road range of about 80km/50miles which is way more than her daily commute.. The car just gets plugged in at the end of the day and charges to 80%(an option on the older models), and it's good for the next day. The car pays for itself out of the money that would have been spent on fuel. After 3 years it is a free car and saves us money. As long as the range is much more than the commute then there is no problem. I must add that where we live we don't get extremely cold or hot weather, which can cause a lot of battery problems for the old leaf.
Well, I hope you are able to sell you LEAF with a battery in need of replacement. Batteries ran anywhere from $6K to $15K, so if you cannot sell it then you must also figure out the overall cost of the LEAF itself plus sending it to the dump.
Nobody is questioning whether a cheap used Leaf will save you money on your local commuting. Very simple math. I did the same math for my used $15k Bolt EV, which is a superior vehicle to the Leaf in ALMOST every way - on top of that, I got a free new battery with a 8 year/100k warranty. Look for all the Bolts to pop up on the cheap over the next few years. It is like the geo metro of the 1st gen EV era, but way nicer and better than the metro could ever be.
Great review! Thanks for mentioning maintenance. I think it’s the most important feature for a daily driver or commuter car but so many people ignore maintenance when considering the benefits.
Yeah I wouldn’t count on that battery warranty and I wouldn’t recommend anyone buy an older leaf over a Prius. I bought my Mom a ‘13 leaf a few years ago from a Nissan dealership. I swear they did something shady to reset the battery calibration because it showed 10 bars on day 1 and quickly dropped to 5 bars over the next 6 months of warm weather, low mileage driving (my mom’s retired and only used the car for the grocery store and doctor’s appointments). So, we go to get the battery replaced and they say the battery has to show 1-4 bars for warranty coverage, and then they started talking about how it might be prorated and corporate might only cover a couple thousand of the $8500 (!!!) battery replacement since we were about to hit the last year of the 8 year warranty. We sold that car for $1k less than we initially paid and then bought her a 2014 Prius Plug-in with mediocre battery health for a steal. Then we took it straight to Toyota and they replaced the battery under warranty no questions asked. They even gave her a ‘21 Avalon as a loaner. That wonderful Prius PHEV is still getting 10 miles of all electric range (up to 60mph) and 60+mpg in hybrid mode to this day. My Mom always brags that she only fills up her gas tank once per season (90% of her trips are under 10 miles). Plus, it’s super versatile. My Mom is always antiquing and bringing home furniture in the Prius, and I borrow it for camping trips and my girlfriend and I can comfortably sleep on an air mattress in the back. So yeah, definitely check out a Prius or Prius Plug-in before falling for the Leaf’s cheap EV fallacy. $8500 battery replacement cost is more than the whole car is worth!
I completely agree! I’m a former Leaf owner.
People need to understand, these EV's are great for what they are intended for.. COMMUTING. They are not for everyone, you'll need a place (a house) to do overnight, 110v charging. This would be a problem for someone who lives in an apartment or something like that.
Actually, the Leaf battery is not air-cooled. It is in a sealed case, with a small fan that recirculates the air inside to keep all of the cells at a consistent temperature. Air cooled batteries will use air outside the battery to cool it, typically using air from inside the passenger compartment. Most Toyota hybrid batteries are cooled this way.
Lol thats still air cooled, its just natural convection vs forced convection, take a heat transfer class dummy.
@@ericschaefer7378 Hey Eric, how many heat transfer classes have you taken? Likely less than I have. How about keeping things civil, buddy? The unregulated heat transfer to and from the battery pack enclosure is not a controlled cooling system. Nissan does not get credit for natural convection, nor is the heat transferred from the Leaf pack by conduction to the BIW, nor the heat transferred by black body radiation. Should we call the Leaf pack “liquid cooled” because driving in the rain can cool the outside of the battery case? I don’t think so.
Great advice to have an EV as a primary car for most daily drives, even if that is short with an old one.
Trying to drive these big SUVs/4x4s in an economical way is useless. You are driving a very capable 2 ton vehicle, with the aerodynamics of a building, just to get yourself to some place that you could have probably used a bicycle for if roads were a little safer :D EVs are so much cheaper to drive, and they are nice and relaxing to drive as well.
I would buy a Bolt or an Ioniq (2017) so you can do pretty much all daily drives or even longer distances. Then you only need the big car if you actually need to haul stuff or go offroading or something. The amount of money saved is staggering.
Also noteworthy; Nissan built chademo as a bi-directional charger!!! Wayyy before it was cool, this car was revolutionary and underappreciated sadly. It is & will probably forever be the best car I've ever owned!
But bi-directionnal charging is a bad idea when the battery degrades so fast
@@pauld3327 In most circumstances I'd agree with you. However, I'm not a battery engineer or anything, but with these low C rates & plenty of buffer on both upper and lower limits voltage wise; I assure you Nissan planned for. And with such buffers, the batteries could have quite a long life with the slow C rates. But again, if anyone has an educated understanding further than I, please feel free to comment. Thank you! (Edited slightly due to thoughts from another battery discussion)..
Better update. I paid X for it and could expect to get Y for it now. thats part of true cost my friend.
I paid X for it and don't plan on selling it . . . . ever ! 2015 Leaf SV . Have owned since 2017 , original battery with 70 mile range at 10 bars . Has yet to be 'serviced' . No issues.
take care, rh
Great update! I'm happy to hear that the Leaf is working out well.
Petrol price 8.75 $/gal
Fast charging 86 c/Kwh
Tax included
I have a 2017 Hyundai Ioniq electric and I did a obd2 reading and my car state of health is at 100% still and I’m still getting right around 130 miles per charge even after five years It all comes down to battery technology I have a lithium polymer battery instead of a lithium ion people must do the research before buying electric cars to know the battery chemistry
They can just buy the 2017 Ioniq because it is one of the best. No more research needed. It will be the cheapest to drive for next 10 years. I have a Bolt from 2017 with 80.000miles and it is almost at 100% still. Both the Bolt and the Ioniq, are even better than Model 3 (which is good) in terms of battery degradation.
@@roland9367 nice its great to save money in these times we are in.
We call our '16 Leaf, The Grocery Getter. We plug it in at night and the next day we can drive around 100 miles. If we get low during the day we have a 220 volt charger that fills it up in about 1 1/2 hours. Bought it 2 years ago with 20,000 miles on it for 1/3 the price of new.
Our other car is a Honda Clarity Plug-In-Hybrid. It goes about 40 miles on all electric before the gas motor kicks in.Thats the long distance car that will get around 50 MPG on the highway.
All in all we spend about 40 bucks per month to charge our cars and travel between 1,000 and 1,200 miles.
So when people ask us what the best gas station in town is we say,
"Our garage!"
Our Leaf was totaled by a hit-and-run driver and now they are very hard to find for a reasonable price. But my wife are figuring out that we can share a car pretty easily and now we will be supplementing that with an e-bike which is even less expensive to run than the Leaf. No parking garage contract. No insurance.
I bought a 2013 Leaf SV in 2017 for $9k with 30k miles on. At 90k miles in December 2021 I finally had to get a battery upgrade. I spent just $4.5k and had an 80% SOH 30 KWh battery pack installed. Now my 2013 Leaf, that only had 75 miles when new, consistently goes 85-90 miles per charge!!
Even with the battery upgrade my Leaf has more than paid for itself just in "fuel" savings!
There are definitely FAR superior EVs out on the market now, but for the money a used Leaf is an excellent choice for anyone with a 15-20 mile commute, and unbeatable if you can afford to keep an ICE vehicle around for the road trips.
It might make a good series of shows to get a replacement battery with the newer 62 kWh battery from a crashed Leaf. Probably after the warranty is over.
Love it! thanks for sharing your experience. My 18 year old would be over the moon for her first car to be an EV. We live in a rural area and are able to charge at home, but need something with about 80-100 miles range in the winter (central Oregon).
Get her a cheap Chevy Bolt or even better, Volt!
fair review nathan, i was trying to find a chevy volt for cheap but no luck. i think 40 miles on electricity and the ability to road trip would be great.
I almost got a volt. But got a clarity PHEV instead.
I'll second what you're getting at in this. Our Leaf is a bit older than this one, bought used several years ago for ~8k. It basically paid for itself inside of a year with mileage reimbursement.
Now we drive a lot less, and we charge at home on a L2. I can see that over the last year we only charge about 30 Kwh/month. If we were paying for the electricity (we have solar/batteries), it would cost $2 a month. We're also in NoCo.
The next level to this kind of efficiency and savings... electric bikes and scooters. Our scooters are many many times cheaper to run when weather permits haha.
We all know MPG. Most here know MPGe, the distance an EV will go on the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gas (33.7 kWh). I think we should look at MPG$. This would take the $ cost of 1 gallon of gasoline & instead buy that amount of electricity with it!
I'm currently getting 439.55 MPG$
I live in SoCal + I have solar. When I take into account all the installation cost (purchase/installation, loan interest, etc) & the warrantied generation over 25 years, I'm only paying $0.06082 /kWh. My new-to-me BMW i3 is getting 4.2 miles/kWh & gasoline is $6.37 per gallon.
I know it is very situational, but that's a LOT of miles for the cost of 1 gallon of gasoline!
It's a good 2nd car. Have a longer range car as the main car. Now you can pick them up for 3 grand. That's not bad for an around town car even if it only has a range of 50 miles.
Dude! You might consider, since your car is set up for it, doing a lot of DC or 'fast' charging before the warranty expires.
Thanks for telling people about the Leaf. I have a similar experience. I’m thankful as I approach retirement to have inexpensive and paid off car. I also remember the video you made when you first got this car. Thanks!
In your comparison the other Nissan needed 4 refuels, your car would need about 16, to go the same distance maybe, if you got the 80 mile range, depending on weather could be more. That would take a long time to do, unless you are over night at home charging. A used hybrid is way better, unlimited range and most getting better than 50mpg, so the cost would come way closer, except for oil changes etc and way more reliable
I have a 2015 Mercedes Benz B250E electric, it has an EPA rated 87 miles of range. Drove it in 100 degree temp the other day and got 90+ miles. I average around 94 miles a charge. Some EV's have better battery conditioning than the Leaf. One reason the Used Leaf's price is so low and makes economical sense if it handles your milage needs.
Quick charging doesnt hurt the battery. Quick charging when battery temp is above 110F is what hurts it.
Case and point besides thats simply a fact: My 2017 has been quick charged to death and its holding up as well as some of the best 24kWh packs.
Bought a used 2016 Leaf SV with 23,490 miles. Battery capacity was a bit over 21kw out of the original total.
Today it has cost me almost nothing thanks to having solar, and replacing the tires which were starting to crack on the sidewalls. Getting 5.1 miles per kW. Battery has degraded just a tiny bit. Charging to 80% shows me having a range of almost 80 miles. Plan to keep it for another couple years. PS - What happened to the original wheels?
i have 2015 leaf that i got super cheap a few years ago to save up for an electric truck after my old commuter died... ive put a new 12v battery in my car so far, it is so amazingly cheap to drive, if it wasn't for the range id drive it longer than another few years. i guess one of the advantages of living in the pnw is that ive had zero battery degradation. i wish they would have had active battery managment versus the passive system
Outstanding video, not sexy but very useful information.
Very good info Nathan. Thanks a lot for the update.
At least you can still use your Leaf even with the degraded battery. If my engine or transmission goes out my range drops to zero and stays there until I fix it. Also, maybe this is why consumers want more range than typical EVs have. You can tell them "you don't need that much" based on what the car will do when it's new but maybe they are thinking ahead.
Yes, but with proper maintenance, engines and transmissions can last decades, far outliving a battery. What's more, failures on engines and transmissions are relatively cheap to fix, cheap relative to repairing or replacing a battery. You can go 30+ years on an original engines and transmission, with only minor repairs and routine service. No battery is going to last that long.
@@AkioWasRight We can't know that yet but LFP chemistry batteries could last 30 years or more but not many consumers want to drive 30 year old cars for other reasons than it still working.
@@frankcoffey It's not just about how many people keep their cars 30 years, it's about the balance of economics. You might keep your car for a few years, but then people will buy and repair it long after. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th owners of your vehicle create a market floor for you to resell the car, giving you more leverage to buy another vehicle.
Imagine if a battery is only good for 7-8 years before it is consider worthless to the market. Well, then that impacts your ability to trade-up to a newer vehicle. All the more reason cars should last as long as possible. It's why diesel engines have more resale than gas engine. It's why Toyotas have better resale value than KIA or BMWs, because Toyotas generally last longer.
I have a 2015 Nissan leaf with a 24 kW battery. So far I have lost one bar on the battery life. But I'm very diligent about only charging it to 80% to help extend that. I paid a little over 10,000 for it about 3 years ago with 25,000 miles on it. It's been a great car for driving around town. I've had zero maintenance issues with it other than rotating the tires.
Are you able to program the charging process to stop at 80%, or is it a matter of watching the charging status and pulling the plug (no pun intended) when 80% is achieved?
@@anthonyc1883 I have a juicebox pro and I can set it to stop charging at 80%. I just have to adjust the juicebox to the current state of charge on the leaf when I plug it in and then it will stop by itself.
@@laneyemmons4257 Good to know. Thanks. I'm interested in prolonging the battery life on my wife's Prius Prime which has an all-EV mode, but at only 31 miles of range I doubt she'll want anything other than a full charge.
@@anthonyc1883 the Prius Prime has a buffer built into the battery, if I remember correctly I believe a full charge is around 85% of the true pack capacity. So no need to worry about limiting the charge percentage, but pay attention to the screen when you turn off the vehicle to charge it in hot weather. Sometimes you’ll see a pop up asking to use the air conditioner to cool the battery when charging, always select “yes” before plugging it in when prompted. Keeping the battery cool will help it last longer.
@@anthonyc1883 the Prius Prime has blowers which keep the battery cool using cabin air so running the AC while driving in hot weather will keep you cool along with the battery! The biggest fault with the Nissan Leaf is that the battery is passively cooled, it doesn’t even have blowers like the Prius Prime.
Excellent commentary 👌
For people that prefer cash cars and their job is within 20mi, this isn't a bad vehicle to buy.
- I'm surprised Nathan hasn't put moon hubcaps on the Leaf lol.
I've been saying it for a long time. What the BEV market needs it's more affordable cars as the Nissan Leaf and Dacia Spring. Not expensive BEVs targeting the luxury market, with so many tech gimmicks, it looks as an iPad on wheels.
Cheap usually means limited range, which makes it a secondary vehicle for most people in the North American market. So if you’re buying two vehicles to fill your needs you don’t net a savings.
@@andrewsbbq if you need to travel longer distances, then use a Plug-in hybrid. Way more affordable and a smaller Carbon Footprint, than an expensive and heavy BEV with a large battery pack.
@@RogerM88 oh ok, so saturation of cheap low range BEVs is not what NA needs
Ev incentives should only be applicable for affordable cars. They should also be straight rebates for these.
A hybrid, whether it be plug-in or not, is cheaper than an EV, has lower running cost than a straight ICE car, and it has no range sacrifice, so why buy the EV?
The solution is hybrids, not more $30,000 EVs with limited range.
The leaf has the worst battery no active battery management. Good value
I’ve been thinking about buying an older Nissan leaf to replace my broken Toyota Prius I thought the older Nissan waves only the 50 miles on one charge but I think 80 Miles would be good for what I do
Bought a used Honda clarity PHEV a year ago. 47 miles electric range. I’ve used 8.00 in gas last 120 days. Boy did I luck out with this purchase.
I wake up everyday and jam metallica battery with lyrics, i can't help it. Upvoted!!!!
Very valuable information. I watched at 1.5 speed & Jason Alexander's Captain Kirk imitation comes to mind listening to you..:) Enjoyed your frankness and nuts & bolts approach. How about upgrading the battery which I have heard is often times done to increase range? Any thoughts on that?
Where i live in Canada avg price of electricity is 0.10kwh and gas after conversion and exchange is $6.30 gallon. So its a no brainer.
I save a lot of money with my 17’ Ioniq EV which still does its original range of 124 miles.
The VW eGolf, like the Leaf, lacks active battery cooling/heating. But the eGolfs haven't had much battery degradation due to a better BMS and cell chemistry.
We have the same car, same color. It’s an amazing city/ groceries/ dog car.
Owned 2 2011 and now 2018....best daily cars I've ever owned.
Find out your warranty deadline and abuse the batter to lose those next two bars. I've heard people who were under a year before the warranty expired and fast charged every day to get the battery to where Nissan would replace it. New battery gave them a 126-136 mile range.
In Valgary, I pay less then 10 cents/ kwhr. Fox for 65kwhr batt, is like only $7.00.
Battery isn't air cooled with conditioned air, rather using passive cooling. Essentially a battery that has a difficult time cooling when it gets hot and a significant negative related to Nissan Leafs, especially Gen 1 Leafs where battery degradation is significant in warmer climates.
Not a negative if one knows and accepts this, but most EVs on the market have an active (liquid) cooled battery to protect against high internal temperatures.
Do another video and plug in an OBDII and check the information of the car/battery with the LeafSpy.
My 30kWh Leaf has served me perfectly for the past year, also done about 20k miles and at 50k has a SOH at 82%...
And please, talking about range is giving every EV owner Goosebumps. With every ICE car, specially truck, you inform us of the tank size and the MPG. Do the same with the EVs, battery size (capacity or size x degradation) is the important information together with the consumption. Same as for the ICE car! Please RANGE is a VERY RELATIVE term at an EV! We all know you can do either 40 miles at full speed or 140 at 20mph.
Flywheel power generator work great .