Mormonism is so much more fun when you are on the outside looking in. I love how wild the disciplinary trial of John W. Taylor was. I highly doubt that other church "courts" have been interrupted with a surprise "revelation" from a previous prophet. This is awesome. I wish I could have been present for this high stakes meeting. I also find it hilarious that John W. Taylor pleaded the 5th at least a few times during his disciplinary trial. Has anyone successfully pleaded the 5th during a recent church disciplinary trial? Is it just me, or do a lot of Mormons (historically and presently, especially in the U.S.) seem pretty selective when it comes to "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (see 12th Article of Faith)?
Really appreciate your unbiased account, history is complicated , interesting indeed that Bro, Taylor's blessings were reinstated. To me that speaks volumes.
Tom Green related the following in 2020 about how the Trial of John W. Taylor was made public: "... here's what I heard about how the Trials of Cowley & Taylor became published. Fred Collier told me how late one night he and Knut Knuteson went to visit J. Max Anderson at Max’s home on Range Road in Salt Lake City. As they sat in Max’s office, Max was showing them a transcript of the Mathias F. Cowley trial and the John W. Taylor trial. Fred begged Max to let him have a copy, but Max said no. Max said that he was very lucky himself to be entrusted with it and he didn’t dare let it out of his hands lest he lose his own access to records. Then, Max went out into his backyard to move his sprinklers. Fred told Knut that we need to have access to these transcripts. ... So, they grabbed the transcripts and bolted out the front door. This was past midnight, but they found an all-night grocery store with a coin-operated photocopy machine. They hurriedly pumped in coins until they had copies of all transcripts. Then they drove to Fred’s home. Fred said that the phone was ringing when they came in. It was Max, and Fred said he was very angry. Very, VERY angry! He demanded that Fred bring those back immediately or the police would be called. So Fred drove right back to Max’s. He told Max, possibly ingenuously, “But Max, I knew you’d want us to have a copy and so you went outside turning your back so that we could go make copies but you’d still have plausible deniability that you had allowed it.” Robert Black got Fred to let him publish them. Robert put them out in a pamphlet from “The Mormon Underground Press.” It’s logo on the back of the pamphlet shows a little tunnel going below ground where a printer in a little cave was working his press. This is probably the first time these had been published."
That is very intriguing. Makes me wonder who gave him permission/authority in the first place and who else is passing out authority to these other people…
So i used to pay about 500 or $600 a month in tithing. I’m going to give you guys from this point forward the amount of money the church would’ve given the poor from my Offering. Maybe a little bit more because that’s a pretty small amount. Think about that people.
A good treatment of John W. Taylor's saga is in "Rocky Mountain Empire" written by his son, Samuel Taylor. Samuel also wrote the original story that became the Disney movie "The Absent Minded Professor."
Very interesting and educational. What a mess all of these men were in. Great job on being unbiased. Sad that some has to be the scapegoat. So was the church split?
Yes, but the split came long before, when B.Young became the de facto leader and brought the majority of the (Mormon) church west. What is notable, is the wife of J.Smith, Emma, stayed behind and became a member of the splinter group named the Reorganized Church... RLDS.
@@bobwilkinson1217 For one thing, none of them lied about it, as did Smith to his dying day, (and the church for 170 years) even sending an apostle to the UK to lie to the converts there about polygamy. In fact, got to give Young credit; rabidly racist, slavery approving, God is Adam teaching scoundrel that he was. He was one of the few "prophets" who was up front about polygamy. Second, none of those old testament guys were breaking any laws. Smith was in violation of Illinois bigamy law. Thirdly, so you get your moral leadership from the old testament? So I guess it is OK to have had your wife stoned to death and thrown on her fathers doorstep if she wasn't a virgin when you married her. I guess human slavery is OK, and you can kill your slaves so long as they take a few days to die. You can also kill someone for working on the Sabbath, and morally at least (though it may cause some diplomatic inconveniences) I guess the Israeli's can kill every west bank man, woman, child, animal (though perhaps keep the young women virgins for sex slaves) because they are the enemies of the Jews and on the land God promised the Jews. After all, God either permitted or commanded mass slaughter on numerous occasions. Fourth, "we never disparage them," who is "we"? Finally, it is highly debatable these people even existed. Israeli historians and archeologists for example have almost universally accepted the fact that there was no exodus of Jews from Egypt, no wandering in the desert, and probably no Moses. So tell me Bob, is the earth only 7,000 years old?
@@bobwilkinson1217 - I love how LDS justify their wicked past by pointing out how other people did it. If someone took your current wife and married her, and they said “our Prophet Joseph Smith did it” … would you accept that?
Christian nationalism drove the insurrection: Fanatical, extreme religious faith wasn't incidental to last yr's assault: It was a central driving force By KATHRYN JOYCE Salon
Well of course. Why though do your need $ 20K ain’t a lot. Still why? It’s online so that should reduce cost considerably. He need a 2nd income and would rather do this and get a lil $ from it? I don’t like the vagueness.
Time and effort should be compensated. I’d guess these vids pull minimum 20 hrs a week to research, record/edit and deal with tech stuff. I watch for interest though mostly RFM and donate $5/month. Hardly anything to me. If all the subscribers would donate 5 bucks a month all the podcasters under the Mormon Discussions umbrella could be compensated for their time and effort. Don’t be a taker, give something back
![Getting Your Own Planet In Mormonism [Mormonism Live 205]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ejwjHLJY0Cw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Getting Your Own Planet In Mormonism [Mormonism Live 205]](/img/tr.png)
"Teach them correct principles, let them govern themselves!"
Each of us must rule ourselves in accordance to Gods desires for us.
Mormonism is so much more fun when you are on the outside looking in. I love how wild the disciplinary trial of John W. Taylor was. I highly doubt that other church "courts" have been interrupted with a surprise "revelation" from a previous prophet. This is awesome. I wish I could have been present for this high stakes meeting. I also find it hilarious that John W. Taylor pleaded the 5th at least a few times during his disciplinary trial. Has anyone successfully pleaded the 5th during a recent church disciplinary trial? Is it just me, or do a lot of Mormons (historically and presently, especially in the U.S.) seem pretty selective when it comes to "obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (see 12th Article of Faith)?
@Absalom I will take your word for it. I already spend way too much time on the silliness of Mormonism, since I was raised Mormon.
John W. Taylor died October 10, 1916, in Forest Dale, Salt Lake City, UT. He was 58. May he rest in Peace.
Really appreciate your unbiased account, history is complicated , interesting indeed that Bro, Taylor's blessings were reinstated. To me that speaks volumes.
Bro Taylor appears to be a man of principle.
Seeing as how I am a direct descendant of Matthias Cowley, this one hits close to home.
Tom Green related the following in 2020 about how the Trial of John W. Taylor was made public:
"... here's what I heard about how the Trials of Cowley & Taylor became published. Fred Collier told me how late one night he and Knut Knuteson went to visit J. Max Anderson at Max’s home on Range Road in Salt Lake City. As they sat in Max’s office, Max was showing them a transcript of the Mathias F. Cowley trial and the John W. Taylor trial. Fred begged Max to let him have a copy, but Max said no. Max said that he was very lucky himself to be entrusted with it and he didn’t dare let it out of his hands lest he lose his own access to records. Then, Max went out into his backyard to move his sprinklers. Fred told Knut that we need to have access to these transcripts. ... So, they grabbed the transcripts and bolted out the front door. This was past midnight, but they found an all-night grocery store with a coin-operated photocopy machine. They hurriedly pumped in coins until they had copies of all transcripts. Then they drove to Fred’s home. Fred said that the phone was ringing when they came in. It was Max, and Fred said he was very angry. Very, VERY angry! He demanded that Fred bring those back immediately or the police would be called. So Fred drove right back to Max’s. He told Max, possibly ingenuously, “But Max, I knew you’d want us to have a copy and so you went outside turning your back so that we could go make copies but you’d still have plausible deniability that you had allowed it.” Robert Black got Fred to let him publish them. Robert put them out in a pamphlet from “The Mormon Underground Press.” It’s logo on the back of the pamphlet shows a little tunnel going below ground where a printer in a little cave was working his press. This is probably the first time these had been published."
That is very intriguing. Makes me wonder who gave him permission/authority in the first place and who else is passing out authority to these other people…
So i used to pay about 500 or $600 a month in tithing. I’m going to give you guys from this point forward the amount of money the church would’ve given the poor from my Offering. Maybe a little bit more because that’s a pretty small amount. Think about that people.
Good idea.
I really enjoyed this. Mind if I link it to the website I'm making about the 1886 revelation?
I’m following you! Very interesting!
A good treatment of John W. Taylor's saga is in "Rocky Mountain Empire" written by his son, Samuel Taylor. Samuel also wrote the original story that became the Disney movie "The Absent Minded Professor."
Where can I read this
mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/John-W.-Taylor-Trial.pdf
I understand now that is is a neutral non biased discussion. I’m sorry if my comments are forward from here on out.
Very interesting.
Very interesting and educational. What a mess all of these men were in. Great job on being unbiased. Sad that some has to be the scapegoat. So was the church split?
Yes, but the split came long before, when B.Young became the de facto leader and brought the majority of the (Mormon) church west.
What is notable, is the wife of J.Smith, Emma, stayed behind and became a member of the splinter group named the Reorganized Church... RLDS.
Blessings
Dublan,Chihuahua accent on the last syllable not Dublin in Ireland.. In reference to Bishop Robinson. Colonia Dublan
I dont think Emma liked polygamy.
She was threatened with being "destroyed." That couldn't have felt very nice. --D&C 132
Welcome to the psychotic world of Mormonism.
How does counterfeiting play a part in all the business dealings?
So the church just sweeps things under rug?
Yup and then they deny the rug exists at all!
Mathias - Ma Thy Us
The good old boys just couldn’t give up the gals….creepy 😬
Along with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and other ancient covenant people. But we never disparage them, right?
@@bobwilkinson1217 For one thing, none of them lied about it, as did Smith to his dying day, (and the church for 170 years) even sending an apostle to the UK to lie to the converts there about polygamy. In fact, got to give Young credit; rabidly racist, slavery approving, God is Adam teaching scoundrel that he was. He was one of the few "prophets" who was up front about polygamy. Second, none of those old testament guys were breaking any laws. Smith was in violation of Illinois bigamy law. Thirdly, so you get your moral leadership from the old testament? So I guess it is OK to have had your wife stoned to death and thrown on her fathers doorstep if she wasn't a virgin when you married her. I guess human slavery is OK, and you can kill your slaves so long as they take a few days to die. You can also kill someone for working on the Sabbath, and morally at least (though it may cause some diplomatic inconveniences) I guess the Israeli's can kill every west bank man, woman, child, animal (though perhaps keep the young women virgins for sex slaves) because they are the enemies of the Jews and on the land God promised the Jews. After all, God either permitted or commanded mass slaughter on numerous occasions. Fourth, "we never disparage them," who is "we"? Finally, it is highly debatable these people even existed. Israeli historians and archeologists for example have almost universally accepted the fact that there was no exodus of Jews from Egypt, no wandering in the desert, and probably no Moses. So tell me Bob, is the earth only 7,000 years old?
@@zachgarver7922 my thoughts exactly.
@@zachgarver7922 AMEN!!!
@@bobwilkinson1217 - I love how LDS justify their wicked past by pointing out how other people did it. If someone took your current wife and married her, and they said “our Prophet Joseph Smith did it” … would you accept that?
Well Done.
Did I hear it correctly that John W Taylor married his typewriter ?
:-)
His secretary.
Twice
He married his typewriter after he divorced his blackboard er.
Hahaha all I can picture is Steve Carrell saying “I love lamp.”
Follow the money in Mormonism
Follow the money in anything
Christian nationalism drove the insurrection: Fanatical, extreme religious faith wasn't incidental to last yr's assault: It was a central driving force By KATHRYN JOYCE Salon
Get a job, Jethro. And when BLM/Antifa starts burning down neighborhoods again, do your part to prevent it.
I do appreciate the vids/pod casts. However why does it actually need $ support?
Well of course. Why though do your need $ 20K ain’t a lot. Still why? It’s online so that should reduce cost considerably. He need a 2nd income and would rather do this and get a lil $ from it? I don’t like the vagueness.
Man… you need a real job. I need my money
what money did you spend? these videos are free. Why is my exposing Mormonism getting under your skin?
@@MormonDiscussion Bill. You're awesome. You and RFM have helped me so much.
Time and effort should be compensated. I’d guess these vids pull minimum 20 hrs a week to research, record/edit and deal with tech stuff.
I watch for interest though mostly RFM and donate $5/month. Hardly anything to me. If all the subscribers would donate 5 bucks a month all the podcasters under the Mormon Discussions umbrella could be compensated for their time and effort.
Don’t be a taker, give something back