Update: I fully expect to be roasted alive by the Star Wars fandom, instead I got a ton of lengthy constructive criticism and civil discussions! You guys are awesome. --------------------- I know, after the death of the Jedi council, the arts of lightsaber aren't what it used to be, hence the blunt and unskilled fight scenes. I'd argue making the fights more satisfying to watch is more important that justifying the lore, but maybe that's just me. Come on, Kylo Ren stopped a blaster shot in mid-air. He can swing better than this.
From what I remember, Ben never really personally teached how Luke to swing his saber or at least not on screen. The only thing we saw Luke was him training with a flying droid shooting lasers at him. In Empire Strikes Back, for some reason, Luke sort of know how to swing his saber a bit, but just rough and clumsy, while Return of the Jedi, Luke really fight like a samurai. One reason I loved Return of the Jedi is that it has a samurai "Chanbara" feel to it. Especially the opening rescue of Han Solo where he single handedly defeated all of Jabbas henchmen.
@@hanchiman that's the thing, too. The the force is supposed to guild a Jedi in his fight. That's why Jedi sword fights look so graceful and effortless. Kylo Ren, despite being so sensitive to the force, never exhibits this. Sure, he can't control his emotions, but that doesn't seem to stop him from quietly assassinating pumpkin head by using the force. That's gotta take some good concentrations.
@@AccentedCinema To be honest, I don't have much interest with the Prequels or the Disney "sequels" much. Because it feels like a soulless Fan Service and only swing their "saber" around according to the choreography that the actors learned to remember when to swing. Even a cheap 1980's Hong Kong TVB Wuxia drama had better fight choreography. Like Andy Lau classic "Eagle and his Companion". Most HK Wuxia stunt people all have some form of martial art background
Definitely we need a lot of Asian cinema mentality here in the West. Jackie Chan's mentality of using anything and everything as a weapon. The key poses going on in sword fights. Less jump cuts to make it look like a fight when it just looks stupid. Saw a video that showed how Jackie Chan handles camera work in fights. And just overall a lot more patience with the pacing. We need to have the quiet before the storm, but even in a storm, there can be quiet moments before it picks back up again.
less jump cuts, if you can't do a sword sequence in one take then GTFO! i mean villain does some moves to push the hero back and hero counters pushing the hero back, end of sequence, then you cut not hero does a move cut villain does a move cut move cut move cut rinse repeat, it's retarded and you lose the geography of the fight..... also never use too many closeups, establish things in the wide frame and move in when needed to focus on a sequence or something else for dramatic effect, use the camera to surprise the audience....film from many angles etc don't just use a pretty set, if you have a cool looking scenery frakking use it.....the back of that red room shoulda been overlooking a supernova or something to make it more interesting, like Mass Effect's Illusive Man's office?? hell they coulda had the space battle or whatever in the background like ROTJ but instead of small ports the entire floor to ceiling is a port overlooking the space battle...... but no, just a generic shiny ass red and black room ugh
You want a best sword fight movie!? Go watch Samurai X Rurouni Kenshin Live action. After starwar franchise, this live action is a new king of sword fight action. Fast, strong and real. I suggest you should watch that movie.
Definitely a Jackie Chan style light saber fight will be amazing, those force guys can basically use force to handle everything nearby, using it at fight should be natural for them, and they can basically 'fly' using the force, so i was expecting they fight in air for la last movie.
Well represented sword fencing is not required for the fight scene to work. I think if movement and visual narrative are well done that is enough, well represented sword fencing is a well received extra.
@@exeacua well done movements and visual narratives are achieved when the following conditions are met: 1. At least the choreographer or director understands well how the body moves, and more importantly, how it should move during certain situations, techniques, etc, and know how to craft a scene using that. 2. When cameramen and editors understand how to capture such movements properly. Legit martial arts (not necessarily fencing) teach #1. This is why it's essential, at least for the choreographer or the director. Yes, well-represented sword fencing is not required for certain films, but the choreographer is still required to understand martial arts decently in order to deliver a choreography that matches the characters' skills, personality, situation, etc. In the case of Star Wars, Kylo Ren is not just some hoodlum who picked up a lightsaber. He trained for years under Luke, and then under Snoke. He shouldn't be fighting like he's some gangster with a baseball bat. There should be finesse in his movements, flavored by rage.
@@theflyingpunyo3696 light blade, important to keep youir distance at all costs, body armor rarely matters, seems like fencing would be important to me
@@dylanwight5764 I really like the duel on Empire Strikes Back for the sheer head games and environmental play between Luke and Vader. But TFM duel between Maul and the duo is definitely my second fave. The tension buildup from that electro-curtain hallway is how sword fights are done right!
@@BladeFitAcademy The duel in Empire is amazing for no other reason than it shows how effortless Vader is when fighting less skilled (in this case, unskilled) opponents. Some of his duels in the comics are more impressive though for that very reason -- he fight incredibly skilled but still lesser skilled opponents with ease. But yeah, the duel in Empire is amazing. You see how Vader really is the master duelist and why Jedi feared him so much.
The Rebels has no right being as good as it is. Even without watching clone wars and rebels it still manages to build the tension to amazing heights, and the buildup is the best I’ve seen anywhere
One point I'd bring up is that this is why Darth Maul is so beloved by much of the fanbase, despite showing up barely at all. He emotes heavily in the fight. Where everyone else is barely even acting in the fights, he paces and snarls and bares his teeth. I also loved your point about how, despite the OT choreography being just godawful, their understanding of tension and pacing made it work.
I appreciate the insight, but I don't think it's fair to critique Rey and Kylo's very raw, "baseball bat-swinging" styles by the same standards are the previous duels because of the context. Rey isn't formally trained. She knows how to fight because she's had a hard life where she probably had to street fight on an almost daily basis to get by. She learned the hard way, hence her style is crude and wild. Kylo was formally trained, but remember: he was trained by Luke Skywalker, who only had a few months of training from Yoda at the most, and therefore wouldn't hold a candle to previous generations. Plus, Luke taught Kylo as a member of a new Jedi Order which he mistakenly thought had no Sith rivals, so lightsaber training was probably given little emphasis compared to other uses of the force (telepathy, telekinesis, etc.). IMHO, the chaotic, undisciplined feel of the duels from the sequels is actually very appropriate, but that's just me.
GO BACK BEHIND YOUR THRONE OF... wood? You know what... I'll call it the Splinter Throne... sounds a little more intimidating... built from uncarved bo staffs... staves... is it bo staves or bo staffs? I feel like Shego is going to tell me that both are acceptable plural forms of the word staff.
@@TheLukeMonster Rey's lightsaber style is completely separate from that of fighting with her staff. She should be wielding her Saber as look taught her. Also Luke is an amazing lightsaber lightsaber duelist having beaten Darth Vader who was reconized as one of the best lightsaber wielders ever. On the second point Kylo was not only trained by Luke trained by Snoke for multiple years. His lightsaber skills should far exceed that of a novice
The rules for a good sword fight are the same as a good “Spaghetti” western gun fight; Long and deliberate period of tension being built with the promise of violence. Tension from the people watching or are present on the periphery of the fight A sudden explosion of _very_ brief but powerful violence A cacophonous silence to finish it off, to give the violence more weight.
@@dandydasyt4766 Just because it's better than another option doesn't mean it should be the only option. Slow, dramatic scenes like that are great, but when they're the _only_ action in a film that presents itself as an action film, they lose their impact. Imagine eating the same thing for breakfast every day for literal years.
It is such a small thing, but what you said about key poses completely blew my mind, I think I may have to look at my favourite Hong Kong fight scenes and action scenes in general in a completely different way!
You want realistic fight scenes with a bit of flash? Watch the Zatoichi series from the early days of film making. Those are fast, precise, cuts to basically kill your enemy. Also every fight scene had a purpose, which is why a lot of them end quickly. The don't focus on the fights, they focus on the point. You'll definitely love it
@@pedrokenzo4670 I would suggest Zatoichi's Vengeance, Zatoichi and the Chest of Gold, or Zatoichi's Revenge. Zatoichi and the Festival of Fire is probably the funniest, but it's sillier too. Zatoichi Meets the One-Armed Swordsman has a LOT of fighting, and is interesting as the One-Armed Swordsman fights like a wuxia character instead of a chanbara character. Interesting contrast. ALL of the Shintaro Katsu films are worth a watch BTW, so you can't really go wrong. The TV show is solid too.
animators of fighting games like to animate on key poses and even freeze on them - the hit-stop effect - to accentuate the power of these hits. look at street fighter and u ll get the idea
Disney should just hire the action choreographers of Rurouni Kenshin. However, some of my favorite Hollywood sword fights are in The Mask of Zorro (1998).
rurouni kenshin is interesting because it's not like most japanese sword films. a japanese sword fight is usually a long build up of anticipation, then a single moment of action, often where the characters are suddenly back to back and you can't tell which one of them is dead until they fall a moment later. rurouni kenshin's action is closer to hong kong style. this, i think, is because the choreographer, while japanese, was a long time member of donnie yen's stunt team. so he approached japanese style sword fighting from the perspective of a chinese action director, and the result is something totally fresh and unlike anything else. i can see how that parallels with star wars, because the prequel films tried to fuse the samurai sword style with the power of medieval europeal knight duels, and the fluidity of wushu, which also resulted in a very distinctive action style.
the mask of zorro is an interesting one because it feels like the last true hollywood swashbuckler. most fencing films in modern times have sort of been approached from the perspective that swashbuckers are lame and old fashioned. so you get movies like the count of monte cristo or the musketeer that are fencing movies which are trying NOT to be fencing movies, but trying to imitate other styles of swordfight. but the mask of zorro absolutely embraced its identity as a fencing swashbucker in the errol flynn tradition and nailed every second of it, in a way i'm not sure any film had done since the princess bride, or has done since
@@neomp5 Since you mentioned the the Princess Bride it made me realize that the somewhat comical duel between Indigo and Westly was more accurate in terms of a sword fight than the sequels had in any scene.
I think one of the best modern Star Wars duels has to be Obi Wan vs Darth Maul in Star Wars: Rebels. It fully captures the first point you were making, while also capturing the pace and lethality of the original Star Wars trilogy... while at the same time acknowledging the first encounter between the two swordsmen and showing the growth of one fighter, and the failure to grow from the other.
Kevin Griffith I was spell bound when I watched a dissection of that fight, it's probably the most realistic fight in the whole Star Wars series. It show cases the strength of the fights, the still youthfulness of Maul and the slowing speed of Kenobi. Next it plays out as former foes meeting again would, a knowledge of their moves. The mentality of the fight is also incomparable to other fights in the series. Even ROTS mustafar battle didn't carry a deep mentality of the duellists, it should of considering what Anakin did but it was lack lustre in its presentation. Unlike this short duel where the mental states of both fighters effected the fight, before when Kenobi was angry with maul he lost easy, it was calming down that won him the first time, he knows this and considering where he is at, after order 66 and caring for Luke from afar, it's more understandable for his slower movements and calmness. Maul didn't fight the first fight at all with rage or anger and he lost, I'd assume he was trying to overcome his enemy by focusing on his own emotions this time. Finally the consolidation at the end, Maul after everything has finally lost and is dying shares a moment with his old enemy and understanding between the two is made. It's by far one of the greatest on screen duels in the Star Wars series, it didn't need back flips or emotional outbursts throughout as previous ones (prequels and original) but a nice simpleness that conveys realism and core Star Wars. Bit of a rant but god be damned that's a great fight.
I feel like Clone Wars also captured the other point though. Like think of the Maul and Savage Opress vs Palpatine. That fight lasted a hot second but everyone who watched was on the edge of their seats because of well it was choreographed.
"There is no impact where the lightsaber touches" Here's why it works for lightsabers though: lightsabers and swords are two different beasts. Sure, they have some similarities, but the key differences they have make their use entirely different. Swords cut through things by acting as a force multiplier. The surface area of the cutting edge is so small that it exponentially increases the striking force put behind it. However, in order to function properly, it _needs_ that force it's multiplying in order to do any substantial damage. Otherwise, the most damage you'll get, assuming your opponent is unarmored, is a skin cut at best. Lightsabers, ironically, don't need this force in order to do some serious damage. The damage it does comes from the heat in the blade itself. As such, it doesn't matter if you hit the opponent with all you've got or with a love tap, because lightsabers don't have a love tap to begin with. With this in mind, and considering how skilled force sensitives are and how much training it takes to use a lightsaber in the first place, using low-powered jabs to conserve energy and even spinning in order to put pressure on your opponent are -good tricks- viable options in a lightsaber fight, provided the user knew what they were doing. This, if anything, makes the baseball swings in Force Awakens / Last Jedi even more fucking inexcusable.
Daniel Jackson what about the fact that the knife/dagger one guard is holding conveniently disappears so that Rey can win or the fact that she has no training whatsoever and beats highly trained( presumably since childhood)guards or the fact that she literally learns of the force and then is almost Yoda level 2 days later
When Lucas made the original he wanted the two sword behave like two magnet force-field - not to easy to move on each other, and the lightsaber's force-field behave like a sword in the water. Funny how he changed his mind at the prequels :)
Sword fights in movies do not behave like their real life counterparts too. The whole idea of a lightsaber/sword fight is to convince a movie-going audience what's going on between the characters (both in their fight and their internal conflict) with distinguishable visual cues, not to try to preemptively account for every detail some nerd will think of for their dEeP lOrE wookiepedia article. Sorry if that comes out abrasive, but whenever I see arguments like this it always feels like they're made to validate people more interested in Star Wars as just a setting than as a full-fledged storytelling vehicle.
Thank you for bringing attention to the Rurouni Kenshin live-actions, some of the best choreographed sword-fighting sequences out there imo (also a really good adaptation).
Seriously. For years I'd wanted to see more choreography that matched the style and cinematography of Crouching Tiger, and when those Kenshin movies came along they absolutely delivered. Incredible stuff.
Unlike regular swords, light sabers doesn't require force or weight to cut someone in half. So I'm sure precicion, and speed is more important than strength
Speed or rather proper technique is always more important in duel? Also, regardless weapon used, more strength = advantage assuming everything else being equal, that's physics.
Tho it's a "laser sword" the saber cannot cut effectively and is dependent on the strength of the wielder's swing. That's why the fights have so many spins and wide arcs.
Correct, which is why swinging one like a baseball bat is idiotic. It should be more like fencing, where you're really just trying to make solid contact with any small bit of the saber, since that will do immense damage even without a huge swing behind it. Additionally, since there is so much potential damage with so little force, swinging for the fences and leaving yourself open to a counter is doubly-idiotic.
No one ever brings this up but one of the greatest criticisms of the sequels how they clearly lack an Asian influence. Lucas was heavily inspired by Asian (particularly Japanese) films, aesthetics, and philosophy but you can tell JJ and Rain Johnson had no experience with Asian cinema or culture. It shows in not just the fights but also in the costumes and philosophies seen in the sequels.
Absolutely true. Lucas incorporated aspects of Asian cinematography, philosophy, and Stoicism; building a heart and purpose. The sequels rely on postmodernism. I wish I never learned that word but I seriously hate it. It's easy to tear down and far more difficult to build something worthwhile. I also love the costumes, design, and worldbuilding of Lucas' trilogies. That is another failing on the part of Disney. Man this is getting me down.
As he was talking about how a sword fight should flow, I remembered the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean, where Jack and will first fought in will's work place. Do you guys remember that scene, it was perfectly made.
I really appreciate how you didn't just dog the prequels or sequels, instead you brought out the problems in ALL lightsaber fights that I noticed subconsciously. With you putting it to words it really helped me. Great video
That's my biggest problem with Rey's fight scenes. It really looks like she's just swinging a baseball bat as was said in the video. At least the prequels did a good job showing how the lightness of the lightsaber makes for unique sword-style fights in this universe.
@@taylorallred6208 Well I think it's like that mainly because she has only had experience with a staff and when we are visually shown her transition from staff to saber in that one training session in TLJ, it's quite obvious she's still treating it like her staff. This makes absolute sense since the only weapon she has used to defend and keep herself alive all those years on Jakku was that staff, hence why she swings it more like a bat.
The sword fight in Kenshin is probably the best i've seen in modern cinematography. I love how the battle keeps moving from location to location and movement feels so smooth yet every hit seems to add a beat like a dance.
I think one of the key differences here is that Asian cinema tends to do the one camera angle which you can definitely feel the action vs. multiple angles that Western cinema often incorporates and can now be considered as cliche.
To play Devil's Advocate for a minute, the sequel trilogy did have one fight that I felt actually captured the classic "samurai western" style: Luke vs Kylo Ren. It had the build up, the explosive movement, Luke dynamically dodging instead of the usual baseball bat swinging, visual storytelling, etc. It was just a visually beautiful and interesting fight to me, even if Luke wasn't directly fighting back.
One of the reasons why I absolutely love the fight choreography of Rurouni Kenshin is because its so layered and it tells a story. Props to Kenji Tanigaki. Its not just all flashy moves and the wow factor. Many times in the fight scenes... case in point with Gein. Kenshin is at first overwhelmed. He's just dodging attacks and blocking but as the fight goes on he his whole being changes. He becomes a different person. In the anime, the change is marked when Kenshin's eyes turn golden. In the live action, Takeru does that change so subtly but its there. His movements are more focused, he's faster and starts to anticipate his opponents. There is almost a serene but deadly look to him as he reverts to his former self - to battousai. Another scene that takes on a symbolic nature is the fight with Saito. While less epic than the anime version, the filmakers went for a more symbolic nature. Kenshin refuses to draw his sword in defiance and as a promise to never kill again. In that scene is is wounded by his own sword (because the edge faces him). In that scene he allows himself to be wounded to control the manslayer rather than unleash it. Another fact that I love is that he isn't solely a swordsman. He's also a capable one-on-one fighter and he never wastes any opening. He goes in for the kill whether he goes for the knees to unbalance his opponents or incorporates throws. Another is the clever way of using the sheath as a weapon and for protection. In RRK lore, the sheath has great importance (watch the OVA) so it adds another dimension. I would even rank the fights in RRK higher than Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
At around 5:08 my fencer nerves began to kick in. You spoke about how the actions of one swordsman affected the other. This is similar to how in fencing you are trying to swiftly trick, parry, or overall trap the other in a non advantageous situation where they get stabbed. There is a reason why fencing isn’t as popular as it should be however, and that is the brute efficiency of the fencers is boring to watch if you aren’t a fencer yourself. Many times parry’s are done in such quick succession that the encounter happens in under a second before someone has been impaled. It leaves you with the “what just happened” feeling which isn’t ideal for on stage or on camera action. Slowing down the action to a swift jog rather than a sprint will take the audience through every step of the way, from each close call to the next.
to be perfectly honest, I am looking to make my own short star wars film and this gave me a ton of insight, I want to absorb as many lessons as I can to make my film up to the standards of everyone.
I love the sword fights in THE SWORD OF DOOM starring Nakadai Tatsuya and Toshiro Mifune (1966). They are filmed at wide camera angles, and the editing is kept down to a minimum where you can clearly see everything.
You explain so clearly what I have been complaining about for ages; we need more tension built up before the fight, we need more clarity in the shots and in the movements of the performers. I subscribed instantly.
I’m a sword nerd, and I learned to *actually* fight in the SCA and martial arts lessons. As an actual fighter, one of my favorite movie sword fights comes from The Princess Bride, with Wesley and Inigo in the ruins. Not only are the sword moves realistic, they talk about what they’re doing. The Princess Bride is at heart a comedic movie, but when the character talks about switching from one fighting style or stance to another, you can *see* it in their movements, and the banter in the fight really adds to the tension. Along with the fact the fight is fencing, which is mostly made up of quick thrusts and parries, it gives the feel that anyone could die at any minute. The choreography makes it so that one person is always retreating, and the other is advancing, like you see in real fencing matches, and the movement and utilization of terrain is super fluid and well done. And the tension is maintained throughout the fight by constantly adding to the stakes, talking about what they’re fighting for, where they came from, how they were raised, and especially the iconic “I’m not left handed” moment. It’s a really well written, well choreographed, well acted fight. (Also the entire movie is brilliant you should watch it)
One of my fave swords fights? Well not really a sword fight, more like a spear fight in the Akira Kurosawa movie "Hidden Fortress" where Mifune character has a spear duel with his rival who captured his princess. The duel was pretty intense, also spear always been Samurai main weapon but this weapon was never covered much in samurai movies. My second fave sword fight is actually Tsui Hark Blade a remake of One armed swordman. This whole movie was basically a deconstruction of Chinese Wuxia genre where most of these "legendary" fighters all rely on luck and dare. The final showdown was pretty realistic and brutal with no flying Chinese. My third was Takeshi Kitanos movie version of Zaitochi the Blind Swordman. He managed to add in some subtle but gory humour in his sword fight. Also the swordfights in every scene is quick and brutal. And then of course it is Yojimbo when Sanjuro singlehandedly defeated all the remaining gangsters in the final showdown.
@@thethirdjegs haha yeah I think the whole flying Chinese wire fu is partially to be blamed on TVB from Hong Kong as their Wuxia series based on Ying Yong novels have alot of "Jumping Qi technique". TVB used it so much wire fu is pretty common sight.
There was a decent knife fight scene in "Man from nowhere" where Won Bin and the Laotian guy go at it for 2 minutes. Pretty much just outclasses him and kills him quick.
I love how you can tell how old a movie is just by the phrase "duel with his rival who captured his princess." It's kind of sad that things like that don't really exist anymore.
I keep going back to Li mu Bai's lessons to Jen daily. In the first scene we can see examples of Li mu Bai, blocking Jen's moves before she makes it. But, pay close attention and you will see that Mu Bai uses the green destiny to control several of Jen's moves. Everything from the concept to it's implementation is perfect!
Best animated duel in Star Wars: Obi-Wan vs Maul on tatooine Best choreographed duel in Star Wars: Ani vs Obi on Mustafar Most Emotional duel: Empire Strikes Back Fight me
Ani vs Obi is TERRIBLY choreographed. So much over-movement, so much "aim for the sword", so much unnecessary distancing. How many shots do you see in the first two minutes of that duel that have them going for body or dominating blows? Once. You can say what you want about Force Awakens, but the Stormtrooper vs Finn was easily superior in technical achievement. You can see that those two were both going for the kill. Anakin vs Obi-Wan had them more concerned with clashing swords than they were in a duel to the death. Please.
Less than 20 seconds in and I’m already enjoying this. With the calm tone and the repetition, you sound like a long-suffering teacher patiently trying to correct a student’s bad habits. 😄👌
Most Hollywood fight scenes are 'all sound and fury, signifying nothing.' Contemporary slick choreo sprouted mostly from the influence of master Yuen Woo Ping, but with little understanding of why his style was so exhilarating decades ahead of the curve. When I first read of Matrix coming out, and saw that Ping was hired for choreo, THAT's when I got excited, knowing 'fuck, these guys are doing it right for a change.' One key component is STRATEGY within the fight, like a high speed chess game. A fight is always about deceiving (feinting) to lure the opponent off guard, and gain advantage. Not just bang on each until the good guy wins because he's the good guy. Opponents change position, style and offense/defense based in the reaction to the other, and you show this moment by moment shift in confidence on the performers' faces, which keeps the viewer engaged on an emotional level. But so much of lightsaber duels are just swinging to clash blades without even aiming for the other person (Highlander is worst about that). No strategy or intent. Another overlooked way of keeping a fight scene spontaneous and convincing is to have awkward moments, where the characters do not always execute every move with flawlessly planned precision (overused and unrealistic). Some of the best cinema sword fights are in Ridley Scott's first film, The Duellists. In one scene, the fighters get realistically TIRED rather quickly, and begin to stumble around and pause to regain a burst of strength. The only other time I've seen that is in the semi-humorous fight in They Live.
2:15 The pacing of this fight is so well done. I have never been the biggest fan of the sword fight being won with one stroke, though it can be great and really interesting. However, I hate constant clashing of swords. I am an epee fencer, and most touches, (a point, also used to describe a single round), have a few groups. Touches usually start with either an opening confrontation, which consists of multiple attacks and parries, and rarely is the end of the fight. In between confrontations, there are times of great tension, where the fencers simply move back and forth, with minimal blade contact and movement. Then, when someone sees an opportunity, or they are ready to enact a plan, they attack. Of course, during confrontations, it is often chaotic, and each fencer is trying their best to exploit the other's movements and weak spots. That is the basic outline of a touch, and then, finally, one or both fencers stab each other and the touch is over. The fight between Vader and Luke captures that feeling so well, it's just great, especially when compared to the ongoing confrontations of most fights in the prequels, where there is essentially zero tension because no one is doing anything but attacking, blocking, walking, jumping around, and perhaps saying a word for minutes on end.
I am going to re-watched the star wars movies to focus on these fights. I have watched countless Eastern movies and have always wondered why they were always so much better. Never broke it down like this
Great video, I really like the idea of drumming up tension and how the environment itself seems to respect the heaviness of a duel or an encounter. I've gotten to do some HEMA longsword fighting and there's a ton of different styles, but the biggest problem I see with some of the star wars fights is that they sometimes are just wacking each others light sabers for no reason, a block or a parry is to deflect a blow that is going to hurt you, but if you look at the fight around 4:25 between Obi Wan and Count Dooku, you will see some moments where even if obi wan just t poses, Dooku isn't in reach to hit him, in the ruroni kenshin fights every swing of the blade is with intention to hit the other person, and that feels more dangerous rather than like dancing.
All this talk about key poses reminds me so much about the criticisms regarding Mortal Kombat's animation specifically and the analysis on fighting game animations as a whole.
6:09 maul. because QG Jin is tiredn sweating and panting. i saw that since i was little. + obi wan saw that too, that's why he was tense. edit: oh and, QG jin's movement are slower and larger. he recover from a pary more slowly
Even though this kind of thing can be pulled off in a slightly different way in live action, Genndy Tartakovsky’s fight scenes in animation are amazing in their use of tension, even in the middle of a fight. People swinging swords is pretty chaotic and it might be harder to understand purely because of the movement and the chaos, and this is why genndy tartakovsky does his work in the way he does. His approach to showcasing movement and fight scenes is highly focused on silhouettes and striking poses. For him, it’s not just about letting tension build up prior to the fighting, (though he does this as well), but it’s pausing the action for a few frames at a time to show the pose the fighters are in now, and then releasing it to have them fight, and pausing it again to show the difference. The result is a high level of readability in the fight scene, and an overall very rhythmic nature to the fight. Edit: I didn’t realize you actually talked about this! Highly recognizable poses and silhouettes are exactly what I was talking about.
filming swordfighting scenes in Japan basically requires the actors to go through weeks of training in Tate(殺陣), I never really understood why it's such a big deal but watching your video made me understand why.
Easy ways of improving the newer star wars fight scenes Give each movement a goal and a reason to be there Clear up the fights so it’s clearer and it makes sense that everything happens the way it happens Give the fights weight- like there is something to gain or lose so there is tension Give the characters fighting skill and make them more careful
Thanks for the video I’m a huge d&d nerd and dungeon master and really really love hearing ppls opinion on sword fights and stuff like that I’m always looking for ways to improve my game as a dungeon master and a writer
I randomly saw Yojimbo on TV some late saturday night when visiting my parents. Having no expectations, it quickly grew on me and became one of my favorite movies of all time.
Fight scenes don't have to be long and drawn out, either. Especially in Japanese cinema, the actual combat can be quite brief -- the climax of the scene rather than the scene itself -- and it's just as dramatically effective.
And that's why the scene at the end of Empire worked so well. The actual fighting in that scene is very brief with tons of starts and stops, leaving plenty of room for dialog and even some silence.
I love your voice! There’s something so soothing about Asian people speaking the English language. You give each word more merit than an actual native speaker would.
Could not agree more, and was amazing to get your take and see some Eastern master piece fights in your discussion and analysis did not hurt either :P. Thank you for this and for all your content in 2019 here is to 2020 being even better for you, the channel, and thus us as well whom
For my money, Luke and Vader's fight in Empire is still the best live action lightsaber duel. The blocking, the movements, Vader's mocking Luke at the beginning with the one hand grip, it's just jammed packed with tension, character, and above all, impact. One of the best Western sword fights I've seen filmed as in, believe it or not, Ladyhawke between Rutger Hauer and Ken Hutchison. I've been binging on your content lately, AC, and I've enjoyed your perspective and commentary!
I don't really agree on stars wars characters light saber fights needing to emote in a fight, especially Jedi Knights, they're not suppose to give in to feelings, no feelings = lack of emotions. But a brilliant video nevertheless bravo, learned a lot.
Thx! I thought the video got a lot right but I think the way they build up tension in the fight btw Qui gon and Maul was perfekt. The low whispers, the lack of music, the concentraition on Qui gons face while the shot always comes back to Obi wan beeing seperated by the laser barrier. For me everything matched there.
While that is true. I don't think that's what he's trying to say. Since afterwards he says "Who's winning the fight?" There isn't really indication of who's winning so far since both have a blank expression or don't really show anything and Maul just kills Qui-Gon because he has too. For example, Anakin vs Obi-Wan. When both of them jump off the tower Anakin is still seen with full of energy and looks like he hasn't broken a sweat. While Obi-Wan is shown to be exhausted and catching his breath a bit. Indicating that the one winning the duel so far is Anakin. Which creates tension because by seeing Obi-Wan getting exhausted we know that if he doesn't figure out something soon he'll lose the duel and will die. Now if Obi-Wan just had a blank expression like Anakin did and looked like he was ready to go there wouldn't be any indication and it'd look like an equal duel and tension wouldn't rise to high until both clash their lightsaber one last before Obi-Wan jumps onto the high ground.
That's the Jedi way as writting and spoken by masters, but it always seemed to be more of a goal to aim for that was unattainable. It's not something any Jedi knight actually successfully achieved. Because I mean. Why would you write a movie about characters that belong to a faith that denies them emotion, and then place those characters in a Space Opera? It just wouldn't be a good movie. oh...
The only counterargument to "posing" is if you were choreographing a more realistic sword fight (or unarmed fight) where subtlety and nontelegraphic movement is key. It really depends on the intention and level of realism in the fight sequence. But even the more "realistic" fights tend to allow some "posing" to become more accessible to the audience. Realism is just another potential element to consider which of course can itself either compliment or detract from the narrative.
i agree. while the prequel films had better looking fights they are kinda cheesey looking back because its too rehearsed looking and overdramatic at times. same as the asian produced films. we still love them though but in a realistic sense when you're fighting for your life its not about looking good or having clear line of sight at all times. still great advice in this video about emotion and tension.
great points, but i do disagree with one thing you said when it comes to light sabers. the fight between yoda and dooku, where you said that the sabers should impact, i think one thing that makes that fight good, is that when you swing a lightsaber there shouldn't be that kind of force through the saber, like a real sword would have, since the blade of a lightsaber itself doesn't weigh anything. so i think it looks great, how quickly the hit eachother's swords and immediately goes for another swing. since a lightsaber only has to touch the opponent to do dmg, and not necessarily be slashed or stabbed into them
It is a good point. But as is, I feel like the sabers don't even touch. At least they don't FEEL like they do. One thing I didn't have time to touch upon is the inherent weakness of lightsaber sound design. They are iconic, yes. But I think the Yoda Dooku scene can be improved if each hit has a more distinct, contrasting sound. The buzzing of the lightsaber against the duller clash sound effect is never as sharp as metal clashing (or even the sparking clashing sound from the original trilogy). If the clash is a bit higher pitch, I think the scene will feel better.
@@AccentedCinema This fight was essentially a stunt double swinging his his prop at a green prompt (for the CGI to be added in post production). I feel that the Prequels were attempting to convey that Jedi are not supposed to be emotive. This falls directly in line with the Jedi Code and what the Order teaches it's students. Jedi are not to endorse emotion. They are to suppress it and focus on the task at hand. I believe that it reflected the dogmatic and pragmatic perspective the Jedi had in the Rise of the Empire era.
6:48 To be honest, the loser would be dead by that point in most of the other cases. It takes either major luck of major overpower to be able to end the fight without killing the opponent. So, the villain not killing the hero(ine) in similar occasions would come across as the villain being an idiot.
Congrats! As a Samurai and Star war´s movies lover, i could never put in words how frustrating the lightsabers duels seems to me, more dinamic than the original movies but... heartless.
Jedi and Sith have Force precognition, meaning they can anticipate their opponent's next move before it even happens. Hence the Prequel fights often look like a back and forth of attack and block, without much parrying. Jedi are also trained to not display emotion especially during fighting, that's why they look stoic while clashing blades with Sith. Sith wear their emotions on their sleeve, which is anger and hate. Look at Darth Maul and Anakin's faces during their fight with Obi-Wan, they look angry AF. The Sequel fights on the other hand look really amateurish. It may be intentional or the sword choreography is just that bad.
ReonMagnum I believe it’s intentional, because Rey isn’t a Jedi and she have melee experience but it’s not on some lightsaber form shit. Kylo isn’t even a Sith either. And we don’t know his true training with Luke and Snoke. Other than that I completely agree.
Rey has an excuse of being untrained but not Kylo. Jesus, that noob keeps overswinging his crossguard saber so much, that any trained swordsman would find an opening instantly. You don't need to overswing your lightsaber to look powerful, as Vader/Anakin proves.
What's great about comparing Star Wars duels to East Asian duels is that the Star Wars duels were actually supposed to be inspired by Samurai dueling, so this comparison works. Great video essay!
Asian action movies Always takes emotion and atmosphere into consideration. It reflects the character's spirit and makes a better scene. Hollywood still has a lot to learn
You’ve won my subscription and the fact that I adore the wonderful Asian cinematography and choreography of fight scenes. There will certainly be plenty more of the terrible, high speed paced fights that distorts how we view it, and then the clear cut action and precision that these fights emulate mostly from ancient, historic duels with melee weapons. Wonderful job!!
This is really insightful. Jedi however train to control emotions and outbursts... Sith however or Darkside users should definitely fight with emotion. Also Rey since she's not really a Jedi, she's an untrained force user.
@@RowinHaddick yeah but they cant see everything. even with the force it isnt how it would actually work. if you can see the future it doesnt matter if they over power you or parry well enough you still will fall back
Han SoloL The whole reason the Jedi were almost emotionless whiles duelling is why they are as strong as they are. They control their emotions as to not become reckless and almost give in to the force depending on their form. This is why Yoda thought Luke was going to lose to Vader and turn to the Dark side and why Anakin was turned. Keeping composure is key to them
@@donvalentino9822 even if your the most composed person but dont got the power to handle it, then you will be pushed down and have to roll ect. there is a few exceptions like the darth maul vs qui gon fight because he was strong enough he just got surprised attack. and young obi want did get pushed down. but the one about rey vs kylo?? i aint buying
I have never spotted the flaws you mentioned in SW fights by myself! Thanks! But to be completely honest, I have a few coins to toss there. Like some things not making sense from our point of view but making sense in-universe/ culture of the movies. Some people argue at a lot of MA movies: "Why the guy won´t kill other guy while is he laying on the ground? Why is he instead boasting about how superior he is or simply lets him to stand up?" Warrior culture. Just a little side note. Now a SW coin- it is said that Prequel movies ale "Jedi in their prime". Meaning most graceful and elegant. Duel between Anakin and Dooku is a little uptight but - In universe- it makes a perfect sense. Ani´s style is noted as stiff and grounded, while Dooku´s is more fencer-like (interesting fact is that it is supposed to be weak against Anakin´s style "Djem-So"). Or Obi-Wan being copletely on the defensive in his final duel with Anakin - It is after all defense oriented style vs offense oriented style: sort of like unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Again it makes sense in-universe but not to us. Oh and finally Yoda vs Dooku- Yoda´s in-universe style is supposed to be just like he has shown (a lot of acrobatics and offense) while Dooku is supposed to be more graceful and elegant (Dooku himself described its form as "finesse-artfulness and the economy of motion" in-universe). That being said you had many good points said ! Well done.
When watching the original trilogy, the inspiration from east asian cinema is tangible, clearly drawn from the cultural mythology of the samurai as warriors of legend. You can see this in the costume design, the names, the style of sword fighting. The newer films have none of these deeper roots. The directors have forgotten to even bother being inspired, except by the mantra "More, more, more!" Sub-par directors who do not understand subtlety, pacing, tension, contrast or the concept that less can sometimes be more. Especially Abrams. His films are rushed, exhausting sprints that barely allow for poignant moments between his flat characters. There is no room to breathe in the adrenaline high of running around and explosions that are his basic bitch blockbusters.
I can't really express my love for sword fighting. But as someone who wants to one day write and film sword fights. This video definitely expanded my knowledge and for that I thank you.
I think that while swordfight are really nice, they fail at being "violent" enough to cause tension or horror at the same time that make you see the beauty on them. That's why i belive that knife fight should be given a bigger oportunity. I think that with proper martial arts coreography you can see them in all of their glory as well as feeling tension of think that it will only take one more cut to end the fight. Or maybe i'm just envious because my country doesn't have martial arts with swords and only with knives...
Viendo esto me dieron ganas de ver una película con peleas de gauchos con facones. Tiene tanto potencial que no puedo creer que no haya alguna película en que aparezca la esgrima criolla.
Sophisticated martial arts exist with swords, especially european ones. Cinematic convention, creative steriliy, and pandering to the masses would mean such arts would never be utilized the to their full cinematic potential.
Just to elaborate on how emotion are shown in the maul vs obi wan and qui - gon fight ------------------------------------------------------ you have to remember that a Jedi is told to not show any emotion and for the side of the sith they were good duelist (just like Jedi) why try to swing as heavy as you can when it can just be parried or thrown to the side and leave their back or shoulders exposed for an easy kill. That's why maul and qui gon do a bunch of light strikes, ones in which don't leave them open which shows their experience and composure in heated battles. This changes when obi wan comes in, with the anger of maul killing his master, with strikes that have alot of force behind them. But maul is cocky and doesn't just finish him off and toys with him, but in the process is caught off guard. That shows alot of emotion in of itself, of an emotion ridden padiwan trying to get revenge, a cocky sith who toys with his pray who is killed just because of that, and a masterful Jedi who learnt for emotions to not get in the way of a life and death moment. ------------------------------------------------------ Not to mention how the music makes this scene have so much tension, when the laser gates go up, the music comes to a stop. With Obi-wan waiting in anticipation, maul pacing around striking at the gate showing his hidden anger just for a second, then Qui-gon turning of his lightsaber and just mediating ready for when the gate comes up and the battle continues.
@@Josephistry It's such a common cliche criticism that the prequel fights lack emotion because of the fast, controlled movements. But Lucas knew that would be a problem, so he edited in close ups to show the emotions. We see this in the choreography as well. Obi-Wan is barely in control during the duel, desperate, then scared, then absolutely furious. And the story of the duel is that it's Obi-Wan's learning to think and contemplate that wins the duel, and that just getting angry is a dead end. He breaks Maul's weapon, but makes a clumsy swing and Maul knocks him down for it.
@@Tareltonlives this video is basically, Big swing good, little swing bad. Pointing out examples only from Asia like they're the gods of film and nothing can compare to they're films.
The choreography shows a lot of the strategies, the emotional and physical conditions, and who is winning. Like in the Yoda-Sidious fight, it keeps swinging back and forth, and since Sidious is so expressive, you can tell when he's winning and losing. In the Obi-Wan vs Vader rematch on the Death Star, it's s sharp contrast to their first fight because they're older and wiser. they're pacing themselves, they're playing it safe, they're feinting and going in slow and subtle. I also disagree with the idea that a fight should be short. I think if there's enough buildup and stakes, and it's edited well, a fight can go on for a long time. That's why in all the good Star Wars movies, the longer fights are either intercut, or, in AOTC three short fights making up a single sequence. You can argue that a duel lasting more than a few seconds is unrealistic, but so is staring at each other for so long.
Update: I fully expect to be roasted alive by the Star Wars fandom, instead I got a ton of lengthy constructive criticism and civil discussions! You guys are awesome.
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I know, after the death of the Jedi council, the arts of lightsaber aren't what it used to be, hence the blunt and unskilled fight scenes.
I'd argue making the fights more satisfying to watch is more important that justifying the lore, but maybe that's just me. Come on, Kylo Ren stopped a blaster shot in mid-air. He can swing better than this.
From what I remember, Ben never really personally teached how Luke to swing his saber or at least not on screen. The only thing we saw Luke was him training with a flying droid shooting lasers at him. In Empire Strikes Back, for some reason, Luke sort of know how to swing his saber a bit, but just rough and clumsy, while Return of the Jedi, Luke really fight like a samurai. One reason I loved Return of the Jedi is that it has a samurai "Chanbara" feel to it. Especially the opening rescue of Han Solo where he single handedly defeated all of Jabbas henchmen.
@@hanchiman that's the thing, too. The the force is supposed to guild a Jedi in his fight. That's why Jedi sword fights look so graceful and effortless.
Kylo Ren, despite being so sensitive to the force, never exhibits this.
Sure, he can't control his emotions, but that doesn't seem to stop him from quietly assassinating pumpkin head by using the force. That's gotta take some good concentrations.
What are you, not a nerd?
Nothing takes precedence over justifying the lore for us nerds!
@@AccentedCinema To be honest, I don't have much interest with the Prequels or the Disney "sequels" much. Because it feels like a soulless Fan Service and only swing their "saber" around according to the choreography that the actors learned to remember when to swing. Even a cheap 1980's Hong Kong TVB Wuxia drama had better fight choreography. Like Andy Lau classic "Eagle and his Companion". Most HK Wuxia stunt people all have some form of martial art background
Maybe is a matter of taste or being acostummed to certain way of swordfight in film. For me the praetorian fight scene was really satisfying to watch.
"The target is blocked by this jackass" lmaooo that was so unexpected but he's so right
"break your character posture"
Sekiro aproves this
Did anyone asked for *Double Ichimonji?*
@@shira_yone lol
Time for Mikiri!
What's that-- a thrust? *So you have chosen death*
Did anyone said Posture ?!
* *High Monk enters the chat*
“Star Wars was meant to be a samurai western”
Yes! 100 percent yes!
Hey but not all U know
Sci fi fantasy samurai western
1000000% yes
Sci fi fantasy samurai western space opera
Star Wars was based heavily on Akira Kurosawa's "The Hidden Fortress"
Definitely we need a lot of Asian cinema mentality here in the West.
Jackie Chan's mentality of using anything and everything as a weapon.
The key poses going on in sword fights.
Less jump cuts to make it look like a fight when it just looks stupid. Saw a video that showed how Jackie Chan handles camera work in fights.
And just overall a lot more patience with the pacing. We need to have the quiet before the storm, but even in a storm, there can be quiet moments before it picks back up again.
No ples.
You know that Jedi are space wizards with supernatural abilities which explains some scenes
less jump cuts, if you can't do a sword sequence in one take then GTFO!
i mean villain does some moves to push the hero back and hero counters pushing the hero back, end of sequence, then you cut
not hero does a move cut villain does a move cut move cut move cut rinse repeat, it's retarded and you lose the geography of the fight.....
also never use too many closeups, establish things in the wide frame and move in when needed to focus on a sequence or something else for dramatic effect, use the camera to surprise the audience....film from many angles etc
don't just use a pretty set, if you have a cool looking scenery frakking use it.....the back of that red room shoulda been overlooking a supernova or something to make it more interesting, like Mass Effect's Illusive Man's office?? hell they coulda had the space battle or whatever in the background like ROTJ but instead of small ports the entire floor to ceiling is a port overlooking the space battle...... but no, just a generic shiny ass red and black room ugh
You want a best sword fight movie!? Go watch Samurai X Rurouni Kenshin Live action. After starwar franchise, this live action is a new king of sword fight action. Fast, strong and real. I suggest you should watch that movie.
Definitely a Jackie Chan style light saber fight will be amazing, those force guys can basically use force to handle everything nearby, using it at fight should be natural for them, and they can basically 'fly' using the force, so i was expecting they fight in air for la last movie.
*How to Film a Good Sword Fight:*
1. Have at least a decent amount of knowledge about (Sword) Fencing
2. Watch this video
Well represented sword fencing is not required for the fight scene to work. I think if movement and visual narrative are well done that is enough, well represented sword fencing is a well received extra.
@@exeacua well done movements and visual narratives are achieved when the following conditions are met:
1. At least the choreographer or director understands well how the body moves, and more importantly, how it should move during certain situations, techniques, etc, and know how to craft a scene using that.
2. When cameramen and editors understand how to capture such movements properly.
Legit martial arts (not necessarily fencing) teach #1. This is why it's essential, at least for the choreographer or the director. Yes, well-represented sword fencing is not required for certain films, but the choreographer is still required to understand martial arts decently in order to deliver a choreography that matches the characters' skills, personality, situation, etc.
In the case of Star Wars, Kylo Ren is not just some hoodlum who picked up a lightsaber. He trained for years under Luke, and then under Snoke. He shouldn't be fighting like he's some gangster with a baseball bat. There should be finesse in his movements, flavored by rage.
Not necessarily fencing, but ya
@@theflyingpunyo3696 light blade, important to keep youir distance at all costs, body armor rarely matters, seems like fencing would be important to me
One more step you forgot, you did! Need camera you do!
"Who is winning?"
Darth Vader: "You are beaten" 😜
Kenobi
What fight is it?
Vader
Thanks dad
He knows to take the high ground.
It's why it worked when Obi-Wan finally defeats Maul in Rebels
Low-key the best duel in Star Wars
@@Morgetiud Best animated duel at any rate. I still think the best duel is the showdown beteeen Maul versus Obi-Wan & Qui-Gon in Phantom Menace.
@@dylanwight5764 I really like the duel on Empire Strikes Back for the sheer head games and environmental play between Luke and Vader. But TFM duel between Maul and the duo is definitely my second fave. The tension buildup from that electro-curtain hallway is how sword fights are done right!
@@BladeFitAcademy The duel in Empire is amazing for no other reason than it shows how effortless Vader is when fighting less skilled (in this case, unskilled) opponents. Some of his duels in the comics are more impressive though for that very reason -- he fight incredibly skilled but still lesser skilled opponents with ease.
But yeah, the duel in Empire is amazing. You see how Vader really is the master duelist and why Jedi feared him so much.
The Rebels has no right being as good as it is. Even without watching clone wars and rebels it still manages to build the tension to amazing heights, and the buildup is the best I’ve seen anywhere
One point I'd bring up is that this is why Darth Maul is so beloved by much of the fanbase, despite showing up barely at all. He emotes heavily in the fight. Where everyone else is barely even acting in the fights, he paces and snarls and bares his teeth.
I also loved your point about how, despite the OT choreography being just godawful, their understanding of tension and pacing made it work.
Wasn't the guy playing Maul a trained swordsman too
Brilliant video mate! Sword nerd approves.
Oh my god!
Wow you both are here.
I appreciate the insight, but I don't think it's fair to critique Rey and Kylo's very raw, "baseball bat-swinging" styles by the same standards are the previous duels because of the context.
Rey isn't formally trained. She knows how to fight because she's had a hard life where she probably had to street fight on an almost daily basis to get by. She learned the hard way, hence her style is crude and wild.
Kylo was formally trained, but remember: he was trained by Luke Skywalker, who only had a few months of training from Yoda at the most, and therefore wouldn't hold a candle to previous generations. Plus, Luke taught Kylo as a member of a new Jedi Order which he mistakenly thought had no Sith rivals, so lightsaber training was probably given little emphasis compared to other uses of the force (telepathy, telekinesis, etc.).
IMHO, the chaotic, undisciplined feel of the duels from the sequels is actually very appropriate, but that's just me.
GO BACK BEHIND YOUR THRONE OF... wood?
You know what... I'll call it the Splinter Throne... sounds a little more intimidating... built from uncarved bo staffs... staves... is it bo staves or bo staffs? I feel like Shego is going to tell me that both are acceptable plural forms of the word staff.
@@TheLukeMonster Rey's lightsaber style is completely separate from that of fighting with her staff. She should be wielding her Saber as look taught her. Also Luke is an amazing lightsaber lightsaber duelist having beaten Darth Vader who was reconized as one of the best lightsaber wielders ever.
On the second point Kylo was not only trained by Luke trained by Snoke for multiple years. His lightsaber skills should far exceed that of a novice
The rules for a good sword fight are the same as a good “Spaghetti” western gun fight;
Long and deliberate period of tension being built with the promise of violence.
Tension from the people watching or are present on the periphery of the fight
A sudden explosion of _very_ brief but powerful violence
A cacophonous silence to finish it off, to give the violence more weight.
That gets monotonous quick
@@Tareltonlives hey, beats plot armor in terms of entertainment in my book
@@dandydasyt4766 Just because it's better than another option doesn't mean it should be the only option. Slow, dramatic scenes like that are great, but when they're the _only_ action in a film that presents itself as an action film, they lose their impact. Imagine eating the same thing for breakfast every day for literal years.
@@frankkennedy7618 I'm genuinely curious as to which influenced the other.
It is such a small thing, but what you said about key poses completely blew my mind, I think I may have to look at my favourite Hong Kong fight scenes and action scenes in general in a completely different way!
You want realistic fight scenes with a bit of flash? Watch the Zatoichi series from the early days of film making. Those are fast, precise, cuts to basically kill your enemy. Also every fight scene had a purpose, which is why a lot of them end quickly. The don't focus on the fights, they focus on the point. You'll definitely love it
@@daoyang223 Thanks man! I will check them out! Any one early Zatoichi film in specific?
@@pedrokenzo4670 I would suggest Zatoichi's Vengeance, Zatoichi and the Chest of Gold, or Zatoichi's Revenge. Zatoichi and the Festival of Fire is probably the funniest, but it's sillier too. Zatoichi Meets the One-Armed Swordsman has a LOT of fighting, and is interesting as the One-Armed Swordsman fights like a wuxia character instead of a chanbara character. Interesting contrast.
ALL of the Shintaro Katsu films are worth a watch BTW, so you can't really go wrong. The TV show is solid too.
@@lartrak Thank you for the recommendations!
animators of fighting games like to animate on key poses and even freeze on them - the hit-stop effect - to accentuate the power of these hits. look at street fighter and u ll get the idea
fantastic video xiongdi
Why are there so many youtubers in the comment section!?
ranton senpai
Ranton this isn't Shaolin Temple fight
@@raymundopedrola127 maybe because of its good quality?
So his name is xiongdi...
Disney should just hire the action choreographers of Rurouni Kenshin. However, some of my favorite Hollywood sword fights are in The Mask of Zorro (1998).
Yo! The staircase fight at the beginning is the best none Asian film sword fight EVER!!! Period!
rurouni kenshin is interesting because it's not like most japanese sword films. a japanese sword fight is usually a long build up of anticipation, then a single moment of action, often where the characters are suddenly back to back and you can't tell which one of them is dead until they fall a moment later.
rurouni kenshin's action is closer to hong kong style. this, i think, is because the choreographer, while japanese, was a long time member of donnie yen's stunt team. so he approached japanese style sword fighting from the perspective of a chinese action director, and the result is something totally fresh and unlike anything else.
i can see how that parallels with star wars, because the prequel films tried to fuse the samurai sword style with the power of medieval europeal knight duels, and the fluidity of wushu, which also resulted in a very distinctive action style.
the mask of zorro is an interesting one because it feels like the last true hollywood swashbuckler. most fencing films in modern times have sort of been approached from the perspective that swashbuckers are lame and old fashioned. so you get movies like the count of monte cristo or the musketeer that are fencing movies which are trying NOT to be fencing movies, but trying to imitate other styles of swordfight. but the mask of zorro absolutely embraced its identity as a fencing swashbucker in the errol flynn tradition and nailed every second of it, in a way i'm not sure any film had done since the princess bride, or has done since
@@neomp5 Since you mentioned the the Princess Bride it made me realize that the somewhat comical duel between Indigo and Westly was more accurate in terms of a sword fight than the sequels had in any scene.
Ninja assassin 2009 also have a good sword fight
I think one of the best modern Star Wars duels has to be Obi Wan vs Darth Maul in Star Wars: Rebels. It fully captures the first point you were making, while also capturing the pace and lethality of the original Star Wars trilogy... while at the same time acknowledging the first encounter between the two swordsmen and showing the growth of one fighter, and the failure to grow from the other.
Kevin Griffith exactly what I wanted to comment on - but you beat me to it!
Kevin Griffith I was spell bound when I watched a dissection of that fight, it's probably the most realistic fight in the whole Star Wars series.
It show cases the strength of the fights, the still youthfulness of Maul and the slowing speed of Kenobi.
Next it plays out as former foes meeting again would, a knowledge of their moves.
The mentality of the fight is also incomparable to other fights in the series. Even ROTS mustafar battle didn't carry a deep mentality of the duellists, it should of considering what Anakin did but it was lack lustre in its presentation. Unlike this short duel where the mental states of both fighters effected the fight, before when Kenobi was angry with maul he lost easy, it was calming down that won him the first time, he knows this and considering where he is at, after order 66 and caring for Luke from afar, it's more understandable for his slower movements and calmness. Maul didn't fight the first fight at all with rage or anger and he lost, I'd assume he was trying to overcome his enemy by focusing on his own emotions this time.
Finally the consolidation at the end, Maul after everything has finally lost and is dying shares a moment with his old enemy and understanding between the two is made.
It's by far one of the greatest on screen duels in the Star Wars series, it didn't need back flips or emotional outbursts throughout as previous ones (prequels and original) but a nice simpleness that conveys realism and core Star Wars.
Bit of a rant but god be damned that's a great fight.
Toby O'Neil full fat films?
Aryan Sharma yep that's him. Good break down there.
I feel like Clone Wars also captured the other point though. Like think of the Maul and Savage Opress vs Palpatine. That fight lasted a hot second but everyone who watched was on the edge of their seats because of well it was choreographed.
"There is no impact where the lightsaber touches"
Here's why it works for lightsabers though: lightsabers and swords are two different beasts. Sure, they have some similarities, but the key differences they have make their use entirely different.
Swords cut through things by acting as a force multiplier. The surface area of the cutting edge is so small that it exponentially increases the striking force put behind it. However, in order to function properly, it _needs_ that force it's multiplying in order to do any substantial damage. Otherwise, the most damage you'll get, assuming your opponent is unarmored, is a skin cut at best.
Lightsabers, ironically, don't need this force in order to do some serious damage. The damage it does comes from the heat in the blade itself. As such, it doesn't matter if you hit the opponent with all you've got or with a love tap, because lightsabers don't have a love tap to begin with. With this in mind, and considering how skilled force sensitives are and how much training it takes to use a lightsaber in the first place, using low-powered jabs to conserve energy and even spinning in order to put pressure on your opponent are -good tricks- viable options in a lightsaber fight, provided the user knew what they were doing.
This, if anything, makes the baseball swings in Force Awakens / Last Jedi even more fucking inexcusable.
@Mister Guy The video literally explains how key poses are doing that job just fine without making a fight look stupid...
Exactly. Sabers are just different than swords.
Daniel Jackson what about the fact that the knife/dagger one guard is holding conveniently disappears so that Rey can win or the fact that she has no training whatsoever and beats highly trained( presumably since childhood)guards or the fact that she literally learns of the force and then is almost Yoda level 2 days later
When Lucas made the original he wanted the two sword behave like two magnet force-field - not to easy to move on each other, and the lightsaber's force-field behave like a sword in the water. Funny how he changed his mind at the prequels :)
Sword fights in movies do not behave like their real life counterparts too. The whole idea of a lightsaber/sword fight is to convince a movie-going audience what's going on between the characters (both in their fight and their internal conflict) with distinguishable visual cues, not to try to preemptively account for every detail some nerd will think of for their dEeP lOrE wookiepedia article. Sorry if that comes out abrasive, but whenever I see arguments like this it always feels like they're made to validate people more interested in Star Wars as just a setting than as a full-fledged storytelling vehicle.
Thank you for bringing attention to the Rurouni Kenshin live-actions, some of the best choreographed sword-fighting sequences out there imo (also a really good adaptation).
The sword fights are just AMAZING in that movie. I hope the new Highlander does then as well.
The actors willingness to perform their own stunts gave the choreographer a lot of freedom, and it shows.
I love the trilogy.
@@LouisPorterJr wait there's a new Highlander movie?
One of the bests trilogy's in the decade
Seriously. For years I'd wanted to see more choreography that matched the style and cinematography of Crouching Tiger, and when those Kenshin movies came along they absolutely delivered. Incredible stuff.
Unlike regular swords, light sabers doesn't require force or weight to cut someone in half. So I'm sure precicion, and speed is more important than strength
Correct
Speed or rather proper technique is always more important in duel? Also, regardless weapon used, more strength = advantage assuming everything else being equal, that's physics.
Tho it's a "laser sword" the saber cannot cut effectively and is dependent on the strength of the wielder's swing. That's why the fights have so many spins and wide arcs.
@@kazuki_the_hyena8229 it's a freaking laser sword. If you lay it on your laps it should slice your legs in half.
Correct, which is why swinging one like a baseball bat is idiotic. It should be more like fencing, where you're really just trying to make solid contact with any small bit of the saber, since that will do immense damage even without a huge swing behind it.
Additionally, since there is so much potential damage with so little force, swinging for the fences and leaving yourself open to a counter is doubly-idiotic.
Don't forget when making a sword fight scene to hire Toshiro Mifune.
Somebody go resurrect him pronto.
100% agreed
No one ever brings this up but one of the greatest criticisms of the sequels how they clearly lack an Asian influence. Lucas was heavily inspired by Asian (particularly Japanese) films, aesthetics, and philosophy but you can tell JJ and Rain Johnson had no experience with Asian cinema or culture. It shows in not just the fights but also in the costumes and philosophies seen in the sequels.
Idk if this is true but imma like it anyways. Anyways, how are you doing ben ? I haven't seen you in a long time
Hello there
@@GoodLookingGentlemen hi
Absolutely true. Lucas incorporated aspects of Asian cinematography, philosophy, and Stoicism; building a heart and purpose. The sequels rely on postmodernism. I wish I never learned that word but I seriously hate it. It's easy to tear down and far more difficult to build something worthwhile. I also love the costumes, design, and worldbuilding of Lucas' trilogies. That is another failing on the part of Disney. Man this is getting me down.
As he was talking about how a sword fight should flow, I remembered the scene in Pirates of the Caribbean, where Jack and will first fought in will's work place. Do you guys remember that scene, it was perfectly made.
I remember that scene. I also liked the 3 way fight in the second movie (Jack, Will, Norrington). Very fun fight scene.
The fights in those movies are so much fun. Peak cinema lmao
I really appreciate how you didn't just dog the prequels or sequels, instead you brought out the problems in ALL lightsaber fights that I noticed subconsciously. With you putting it to words it really helped me. Great video
@9:51
"Hopefully, the saga ends on a high note..."
Me: Sorry to disappoint you there.
it ended on a high note in return of the Jedi and thats how im going to tell my kids
Lol
Hearing "Hopefully the saga ends on a high note" is sad like hearing "hopefully 2020 is better than 2019"
Aren't lightsabers energy based anyways? Why would they need to swing like it's heavy?
Apparently they got weight to it. Space magic to justify how the fights look.
Because the props themselves were actually quite heavy.
That's my biggest problem with Rey's fight scenes. It really looks like she's just swinging a baseball bat as was said in the video. At least the prequels did a good job showing how the lightness of the lightsaber makes for unique sword-style fights in this universe.
@@taylorallred6208 Well I think it's like that mainly because she has only had experience with a staff and when we are visually shown her transition from staff to saber in that one training session in TLJ, it's quite obvious she's still treating it like her staff. This makes absolute sense since the only weapon she has used to defend and keep herself alive all those years on Jakku was that staff, hence why she swings it more like a bat.
Actually been covered in the lore, the blade of plasma being contained in that certain length builds up a certain weight
The sword fight in Kenshin is probably the best i've seen in modern cinematography. I love how the battle keeps moving from location to location and movement feels so smooth yet every hit seems to add a beat like a dance.
I think one of the key differences here is that Asian cinema tends to do the one camera angle which you can definitely feel the action vs. multiple angles that Western cinema often incorporates and can now be considered as cliche.
To play Devil's Advocate for a minute, the sequel trilogy did have one fight that I felt actually captured the classic "samurai western" style: Luke vs Kylo Ren.
It had the build up, the explosive movement, Luke dynamically dodging instead of the usual baseball bat swinging, visual storytelling, etc. It was just a visually beautiful and interesting fight to me, even if Luke wasn't directly fighting back.
This just makes me appreciate even more how well done the rurouni kenshin movies are
The fact that a person can make more than 1 video of this quality makes me happy.
One of the reasons why I absolutely love the fight choreography of Rurouni Kenshin is because its so layered and it tells a story. Props to Kenji Tanigaki. Its not just all flashy moves and the wow factor. Many times in the fight scenes... case in point with Gein. Kenshin is at first overwhelmed. He's just dodging attacks and blocking but as the fight goes on he his whole being changes. He becomes a different person. In the anime, the change is marked when Kenshin's eyes turn golden. In the live action, Takeru does that change so subtly but its there. His movements are more focused, he's faster and starts to anticipate his opponents. There is almost a serene but deadly look to him as he reverts to his former self - to battousai. Another scene that takes on a symbolic nature is the fight with Saito. While less epic than the anime version, the filmakers went for a more symbolic nature. Kenshin refuses to draw his sword in defiance and as a promise to never kill again. In that scene is is wounded by his own sword (because the edge faces him). In that scene he allows himself to be wounded to control the manslayer rather than unleash it. Another fact that I love is that he isn't solely a swordsman. He's also a capable one-on-one fighter and he never wastes any opening. He goes in for the kill whether he goes for the knees to unbalance his opponents or incorporates throws. Another is the clever way of using the sheath as a weapon and for protection. In RRK lore, the sheath has great importance (watch the OVA) so it adds another dimension. I would even rank the fights in RRK higher than Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon.
At around 5:08 my fencer nerves began to kick in. You spoke about how the actions of one swordsman affected the other. This is similar to how in fencing you are trying to swiftly trick, parry, or overall trap the other in a non advantageous situation where they get stabbed. There is a reason why fencing isn’t as popular as it should be however, and that is the brute efficiency of the fencers is boring to watch if you aren’t a fencer yourself. Many times parry’s are done in such quick succession that the encounter happens in under a second before someone has been impaled. It leaves you with the “what just happened” feeling which isn’t ideal for on stage or on camera action. Slowing down the action to a swift jog rather than a sprint will take the audience through every step of the way, from each close call to the next.
Interesting.
great video. keep up the good work!
to be perfectly honest, I am looking to make my own short star wars film and this gave me a ton of insight, I want to absorb as many lessons as I can to make my film up to the standards of everyone.
Man, every day I just get reminded how great the original trilogy really is.
I love the sword fights in THE SWORD OF DOOM starring Nakadai Tatsuya and Toshiro Mifune (1966). They are filmed at wide camera angles, and the editing is kept down to a minimum where you can clearly see everything.
I wish Toshiro Mifune had accepted to roll as Obi Wan back in the day
But we wouldn't get the "hello there","it's over Anakin I have the high ground" and "so uncivilized"
You explain so clearly what I have been complaining about for ages; we need more tension built up before the fight, we need more clarity in the shots and in the movements of the performers.
I subscribed instantly.
Glad to see more people appreciating the Kenshin movies! This was an awesome video
I’m a sword nerd, and I learned to *actually* fight in the SCA and martial arts lessons. As an actual fighter, one of my favorite movie sword fights comes from The Princess Bride, with Wesley and Inigo in the ruins. Not only are the sword moves realistic, they talk about what they’re doing. The Princess Bride is at heart a comedic movie, but when the character talks about switching from one fighting style or stance to another, you can *see* it in their movements, and the banter in the fight really adds to the tension. Along with the fact the fight is fencing, which is mostly made up of quick thrusts and parries, it gives the feel that anyone could die at any minute. The choreography makes it so that one person is always retreating, and the other is advancing, like you see in real fencing matches, and the movement and utilization of terrain is super fluid and well done. And the tension is maintained throughout the fight by constantly adding to the stakes, talking about what they’re fighting for, where they came from, how they were raised, and especially the iconic “I’m not left handed” moment. It’s a really well written, well choreographed, well acted fight. (Also the entire movie is brilliant you should watch it)
One of my fave swords fights? Well not really a sword fight, more like a spear fight in the Akira Kurosawa movie "Hidden Fortress" where Mifune character has a spear duel with his rival who captured his princess. The duel was pretty intense, also spear always been Samurai main weapon but this weapon was never covered much in samurai movies.
My second fave sword fight is actually Tsui Hark Blade a remake of One armed swordman. This whole movie was basically a deconstruction of Chinese Wuxia genre where most of these "legendary" fighters all rely on luck and dare. The final showdown was pretty realistic and brutal with no flying Chinese.
My third was Takeshi Kitanos movie version of Zaitochi the Blind Swordman. He managed to add in some subtle but gory humour in his sword fight. Also the swordfights in every scene is quick and brutal.
And then of course it is Yojimbo when Sanjuro singlehandedly defeated all the remaining gangsters in the final showdown.
you got me laughing at no flying chinese.
but they're wuxia, so ...
@@thethirdjegs haha yeah I think the whole flying Chinese wire fu is partially to be blamed on TVB from Hong Kong as their Wuxia series based on Ying Yong novels have alot of "Jumping Qi technique". TVB used it so much wire fu is pretty common sight.
There was a decent knife fight scene in "Man from nowhere" where Won Bin and the Laotian guy go at it for 2 minutes. Pretty much just outclasses him and kills him quick.
@@hanchiman i think accented cinema had a video about wuxia and kungfu films
or was it another guy
I love how you can tell how old a movie is just by the phrase "duel with his rival who captured his princess." It's kind of sad that things like that don't really exist anymore.
I keep going back to Li mu Bai's lessons to Jen daily. In the first scene we can see examples of Li mu Bai, blocking Jen's moves before she makes it. But, pay close attention and you will see that Mu Bai uses the green destiny to control several of Jen's moves. Everything from the concept to it's implementation is perfect!
Best animated duel in Star Wars: Obi-Wan vs Maul on tatooine
Best choreographed duel in Star Wars: Ani vs Obi on Mustafar
Most Emotional duel: Empire Strikes Back
Fight me
Dude, you nailed it, no fight there.
the most emotional is Obi-Wan vs Maul on tatooine
The best Star Wars fight scene is the 2v2 from the SWTOR Cinematic trailers
Ani vs Obi is TERRIBLY choreographed. So much over-movement, so much "aim for the sword", so much unnecessary distancing. How many shots do you see in the first two minutes of that duel that have them going for body or dominating blows? Once. You can say what you want about Force Awakens, but the Stormtrooper vs Finn was easily superior in technical achievement. You can see that those two were both going for the kill. Anakin vs Obi-Wan had them more concerned with clashing swords than they were in a duel to the death. Please.
Obi vs maul is the best animated but just behind it i would put maul vs pre vizsla in clone wars. That figth is savage
Less than 20 seconds in and I’m already enjoying this. With the calm tone and the repetition, you sound like a long-suffering teacher patiently trying to correct a student’s bad habits. 😄👌
All the references you used in this video
is already a tell that you are truly a _Man of Culture_
Most Hollywood fight scenes are 'all sound and fury, signifying nothing.' Contemporary slick choreo sprouted mostly from the influence of master Yuen Woo Ping, but with little understanding of why his style was so exhilarating decades ahead of the curve. When I first read of Matrix coming out, and saw that Ping was hired for choreo, THAT's when I got excited, knowing 'fuck, these guys are doing it right for a change.'
One key component is STRATEGY within the fight, like a high speed chess game. A fight is always about deceiving (feinting) to lure the opponent off guard, and gain advantage. Not just bang on each until the good guy wins because he's the good guy. Opponents change position, style and offense/defense based in the reaction to the other, and you show this moment by moment shift in confidence on the performers' faces, which keeps the viewer engaged on an emotional level. But so much of lightsaber duels are just swinging to clash blades without even aiming for the other person (Highlander is worst about that). No strategy or intent.
Another overlooked way of keeping a fight scene spontaneous and convincing is to have awkward moments, where the characters do not always execute every move with flawlessly planned precision (overused and unrealistic). Some of the best cinema sword fights are in Ridley Scott's first film, The Duellists. In one scene, the fighters get realistically TIRED rather quickly, and begin to stumble around and pause to regain a burst of strength. The only other time I've seen that is in the semi-humorous fight in They Live.
2:15 The pacing of this fight is so well done. I have never been the biggest fan of the sword fight being won with one stroke, though it can be great and really interesting. However, I hate constant clashing of swords. I am an epee fencer, and most touches, (a point, also used to describe a single round), have a few groups. Touches usually start with either an opening confrontation, which consists of multiple attacks and parries, and rarely is the end of the fight. In between confrontations, there are times of great tension, where the fencers simply move back and forth, with minimal blade contact and movement. Then, when someone sees an opportunity, or they are ready to enact a plan, they attack. Of course, during confrontations, it is often chaotic, and each fencer is trying their best to exploit the other's movements and weak spots. That is the basic outline of a touch, and then, finally, one or both fencers stab each other and the touch is over. The fight between Vader and Luke captures that feeling so well, it's just great, especially when compared to the ongoing confrontations of most fights in the prequels, where there is essentially zero tension because no one is doing anything but attacking, blocking, walking, jumping around, and perhaps saying a word for minutes on end.
1970s/1980s: Star Wars had a fencing master instructing the actors
2000s: Star Wars had a choreography teacher instructing the actors
2010s: WTF?!
Drunken sword style
Andriv Livahf the MC is self trained and used staffs/clubs, then translates that to her lightsaber. So there’s clearly a reason for it
@@stanleylee3329 except by that metric, she should be losing her fights. Badly.
@@Snazzy12341 drunken sword style actually looks more coordinated
@@stanleylee3329 if you cant use a weapon dont use it. Why would anyone pick ub a light saber instead of a blaster if he can't use a light saber.
I've Loved Star Wars and All these Eastern Martial art and fighting movies and Yes this is something the the Disney Trilogy is severely lacking!
I am going to re-watched the star wars movies to focus on these fights.
I have watched countless Eastern movies and have always wondered why they were always so much better. Never broke it down like this
Great video, I really like the idea of drumming up tension and how the environment itself seems to respect the heaviness of a duel or an encounter. I've gotten to do some HEMA longsword fighting and there's a ton of different styles, but the biggest problem I see with some of the star wars fights is that they sometimes are just wacking each others light sabers for no reason, a block or a parry is to deflect a blow that is going to hurt you, but if you look at the fight around 4:25 between Obi Wan and Count Dooku, you will see some moments where even if obi wan just t poses, Dooku isn't in reach to hit him, in the ruroni kenshin fights every swing of the blade is with intention to hit the other person, and that feels more dangerous rather than like dancing.
All this talk about key poses reminds me so much about the criticisms regarding Mortal Kombat's animation specifically and the analysis on fighting game animations as a whole.
when fan made content is better than billionary company's content.
6:09 maul.
because QG Jin is tiredn sweating and panting. i saw that since i was little. + obi wan saw that too, that's why he was tense.
edit: oh and, QG jin's movement are slower and larger. he recover from a pary more slowly
Yeah, you can clearly see Qui-Gon is being pushed back, tired, and he gets one move in for every 4 by Maul.
Thank you for having so much of this revolve around the Kenshin trilogy - those movies are slept on and are phenomenal
Even though this kind of thing can be pulled off in a slightly different way in live action, Genndy Tartakovsky’s fight scenes in animation are amazing in their use of tension, even in the middle of a fight. People swinging swords is pretty chaotic and it might be harder to understand purely because of the movement and the chaos, and this is why genndy tartakovsky does his work in the way he does. His approach to showcasing movement and fight scenes is highly focused on silhouettes and striking poses. For him, it’s not just about letting tension build up prior to the fighting, (though he does this as well), but it’s pausing the action for a few frames at a time to show the pose the fighters are in now, and then releasing it to have them fight, and pausing it again to show the difference. The result is a high level of readability in the fight scene, and an overall very rhythmic nature to the fight.
Edit: I didn’t realize you actually talked about this! Highly recognizable poses and silhouettes are exactly what I was talking about.
Great content as always.
My favorite swordfight is the duel in Seven Samurais.
wide lens, lots of people
How about Starkiller v Vader
filming swordfighting scenes in Japan basically requires the actors to go through weeks of training in Tate(殺陣), I never really understood why it's such a big deal but watching your video made me understand why.
I LOVE Rurouni Kenshin!!!!! OMG this just makes me want to watch it again! 💖
I always love that moment when the combatants stare at each other before a sword fight... So good. *Chef kiss*
Easy ways of improving the newer star wars fight scenes
Give each movement a goal and a reason to be there
Clear up the fights so it’s clearer and it makes sense that everything happens the way it happens
Give the fights weight- like there is something to gain or lose so there is tension
Give the characters fighting skill and make them more careful
Thanks for the video I’m a huge d&d nerd and dungeon master and really really love hearing ppls opinion on sword fights and stuff like that I’m always looking for ways to improve my game as a dungeon master and a writer
One of my all time favorite fight scenes is the knife fight in Kill Zone. Just wanted to share it with everyone.
I randomly saw Yojimbo on TV some late saturday night when visiting my parents. Having no expectations, it quickly grew on me and became one of my favorite movies of all time.
Fight scenes don't have to be long and drawn out, either. Especially in Japanese cinema, the actual combat can be quite brief -- the climax of the scene rather than the scene itself -- and it's just as dramatically effective.
And that's why the scene at the end of Empire worked so well. The actual fighting in that scene is very brief with tons of starts and stops, leaving plenty of room for dialog and even some silence.
I love your voice! There’s something so soothing about Asian people speaking the English language. You give each word more merit than an actual native speaker would.
Thank you for your opinion Joe, we're glad you shared.
Could not agree more, and was amazing to get your take and see some Eastern master piece fights in your discussion and analysis did not hurt either :P. Thank you for this and for all your content in 2019 here is to 2020 being even better for you, the channel, and thus us as well whom
I enjoyed the fast paced prequel fight scenes. It was like a dance.
It’s funny cause people say that that’s why they hate them.
@@chase21592 I thought they got hate for the campy dialogue. Which is, by the way, the main reason I like the prequels!
Sam Hayes they got hate for quite a bit of things, the dialogue being one of them.
Another great essay - thank you!!
This was a great break down. Subscribed.
my favorite scene is come "Traitor scene", what a powerful action.
Ahhahahaha no
For my money, Luke and Vader's fight in Empire is still the best live action lightsaber duel. The blocking, the movements, Vader's mocking Luke at the beginning with the one hand grip, it's just jammed packed with tension, character, and above all, impact. One of the best Western sword fights I've seen filmed as in, believe it or not, Ladyhawke between Rutger Hauer and Ken Hutchison. I've been binging on your content lately, AC, and I've enjoyed your perspective and commentary!
I don't really agree on stars wars characters light saber fights needing to emote in a fight,
especially Jedi Knights, they're not suppose to give in to feelings, no feelings = lack of emotions.
But a brilliant video nevertheless bravo, learned a lot.
Thx!
I thought the video got a lot right but I think the way they build up tension in the fight btw Qui gon and Maul was perfekt.
The low whispers, the lack of music, the concentraition on Qui gons face while the shot always comes back to Obi wan beeing seperated by the laser barrier.
For me everything matched there.
@@ingmar2824 yeah damn it was epic af haha.
While that is true. I don't think that's what he's trying to say. Since afterwards he says "Who's winning the fight?" There isn't really indication of who's winning so far since both have a blank expression or don't really show anything and Maul just kills Qui-Gon because he has too. For example, Anakin vs Obi-Wan. When both of them jump off the tower Anakin is still seen with full of energy and looks like he hasn't broken a sweat. While Obi-Wan is shown to be exhausted and catching his breath a bit. Indicating that the one winning the duel so far is Anakin. Which creates tension because by seeing Obi-Wan getting exhausted we know that if he doesn't figure out something soon he'll lose the duel and will die. Now if Obi-Wan just had a blank expression like Anakin did and looked like he was ready to go there wouldn't be any indication and it'd look like an equal duel and tension wouldn't rise to high until both clash their lightsaber one last before Obi-Wan jumps onto the high ground.
That's the Jedi way as writting and spoken by masters, but it always seemed to be more of a goal to aim for that was unattainable. It's not something any Jedi knight actually successfully achieved.
Because I mean. Why would you write a movie about characters that belong to a faith that denies them emotion, and then place those characters in a Space Opera? It just wouldn't be a good movie.
oh...
The only counterargument to "posing" is if you were choreographing a more realistic sword fight (or unarmed fight) where subtlety and nontelegraphic movement is key. It really depends on the intention and level of realism in the fight sequence. But even the more "realistic" fights tend to allow some "posing" to become more accessible to the audience. Realism is just another potential element to consider which of course can itself either compliment or detract from the narrative.
i agree. while the prequel films had better looking fights they are kinda cheesey looking back because its too rehearsed looking and overdramatic at times. same as the asian produced films. we still love them though but in a realistic sense when you're fighting for your life its not about looking good or having clear line of sight at all times. still great advice in this video about emotion and tension.
great points, but i do disagree with one thing you said when it comes to light sabers.
the fight between yoda and dooku, where you said that the sabers should impact, i think one thing that makes that fight good, is that when you swing a lightsaber there shouldn't be that kind of force through the saber, like a real sword would have, since the blade of a lightsaber itself doesn't weigh anything.
so i think it looks great, how quickly the hit eachother's swords and immediately goes for another swing. since a lightsaber only has to touch the opponent to do dmg, and not necessarily be slashed or stabbed into them
It is a good point. But as is, I feel like the sabers don't even touch. At least they don't FEEL like they do.
One thing I didn't have time to touch upon is the inherent weakness of lightsaber sound design. They are iconic, yes. But I think the Yoda Dooku scene can be improved if each hit has a more distinct, contrasting sound.
The buzzing of the lightsaber against the duller clash sound effect is never as sharp as metal clashing (or even the sparking clashing sound from the original trilogy). If the clash is a bit higher pitch, I think the scene will feel better.
@@AccentedCinema This fight was essentially a stunt double swinging his his prop at a green prompt (for the CGI to be added in post production). I feel that the Prequels were attempting to convey that Jedi are not supposed to be emotive. This falls directly in line with the Jedi Code and what the Order teaches it's students. Jedi are not to endorse emotion. They are to suppress it and focus on the task at hand. I believe that it reflected the dogmatic and pragmatic perspective the Jedi had in the Rise of the Empire era.
I'm actually getting literally note of a lot of your videos, is really good to have this "how to" to learn about making histories
6:48 To be honest, the loser would be dead by that point in most of the other cases. It takes either major luck of major overpower to be able to end the fight without killing the opponent. So, the villain not killing the hero(ine) in similar occasions would come across as the villain being an idiot.
Congrats! As a Samurai and Star war´s movies lover, i could never put in words how frustrating the lightsabers duels seems to me, more dinamic than the original movies but... heartless.
Watched rurouni kenshin because of this and it 👏 was 👏 amazing 👏
Another great video. Nice shout out at the end about the Star Wars fan films too. Some of them are EXCELLENT
Jedi and Sith have Force precognition, meaning they can anticipate their opponent's next move before it even happens. Hence the Prequel fights often look like a back and forth of attack and block, without much parrying. Jedi are also trained to not display emotion especially during fighting, that's why they look stoic while clashing blades with Sith.
Sith wear their emotions on their sleeve, which is anger and hate. Look at Darth Maul and Anakin's faces during their fight with Obi-Wan, they look angry AF.
The Sequel fights on the other hand look really amateurish. It may be intentional or the sword choreography is just that bad.
ReonMagnum I believe it’s intentional, because Rey isn’t a Jedi and she have melee experience but it’s not on some lightsaber form shit. Kylo isn’t even a Sith either. And we don’t know his true training with Luke and Snoke. Other than that I completely agree.
Rey has an excuse of being untrained but not Kylo. Jesus, that noob keeps overswinging his crossguard saber so much, that any trained swordsman would find an opening instantly. You don't need to overswing your lightsaber to look powerful, as Vader/Anakin proves.
You have summed up everything in one simple video... It tock me 1 year of hitting my head against the wall to figure this out. You win...
"Hopefully it ends on a high note"
No it doesn't, no it doesn't
Love the use of the names of the films over the pictures !!
watching this in 2020: "hopefully the saga ends on a high not... oh... damn it!!!!"
What's great about comparing Star Wars duels to East Asian duels is that the Star Wars duels were actually supposed to be inspired by Samurai dueling, so this comparison works. Great video essay!
Asian action movies Always takes emotion and atmosphere into consideration. It reflects the character's spirit and makes a better scene. Hollywood still has a lot to learn
You’ve won my subscription and the fact that I adore the wonderful Asian cinematography and choreography of fight scenes. There will certainly be plenty more of the terrible, high speed paced fights that distorts how we view it, and then the clear cut action and precision that these fights emulate mostly from ancient, historic duels with melee weapons. Wonderful job!!
This is really insightful. Jedi however train to control emotions and outbursts... Sith however or Darkside users should definitely fight with emotion. Also Rey since she's not really a Jedi, she's an untrained force user.
sanjuro is a masterpiece man i love the final duel scene so much i had to slow mow it to see what happened.
I think a lot of people forget that the force users can see the future/predict their opponents moves
wdym by that?
Han SoloL it's why very close combat without any side having any surprised reactions or being forced back as extensively makes sense.
@@RowinHaddick yeah but they cant see everything. even with the force it isnt how it would actually work. if you can see the future it doesnt matter if they over power you or parry well enough you still will fall back
Han SoloL
The whole reason the Jedi were almost emotionless whiles duelling is why they are as strong as they are. They control their emotions as to not become reckless and almost give in to the force depending on their form. This is why Yoda thought Luke was going to lose to Vader and turn to the Dark side and why Anakin was turned.
Keeping composure is key to them
@@donvalentino9822 even if your the most composed person but dont got the power to handle it, then you will be pushed down and have to roll ect. there is a few exceptions like the darth maul vs qui gon fight because he was strong enough he just got surprised attack. and young obi want did get pushed down. but the one about rey vs kylo?? i aint buying
I have never spotted the flaws you mentioned in SW fights by myself! Thanks! But to be completely honest, I have a few coins to toss there. Like some things not making sense from our point of view but making sense in-universe/ culture of the movies. Some people argue at a lot of MA movies: "Why the guy won´t kill other guy while is he laying on the ground? Why is he instead boasting about how superior he is or simply lets him to stand up?" Warrior culture. Just a little side note.
Now a SW coin- it is said that Prequel movies ale "Jedi in their prime". Meaning most graceful and elegant. Duel between Anakin and Dooku is a little uptight but - In universe- it makes a perfect sense. Ani´s style is noted as stiff and grounded, while Dooku´s is more fencer-like (interesting fact is that it is supposed to be weak against Anakin´s style "Djem-So"). Or Obi-Wan being copletely on the defensive in his final duel with Anakin - It is after all defense oriented style vs offense oriented style: sort of like unstoppable force meeting an immovable object. Again it makes sense in-universe but not to us. Oh and finally Yoda vs Dooku- Yoda´s in-universe style is supposed to be just like he has shown (a lot of acrobatics and offense) while Dooku is supposed to be more graceful and elegant (Dooku himself described its form as "finesse-artfulness and the economy of motion" in-universe).
That being said you had many good points said ! Well done.
When watching the original trilogy, the inspiration from east asian cinema is tangible, clearly drawn from the cultural mythology of the samurai as warriors of legend. You can see this in the costume design, the names, the style of sword fighting.
The newer films have none of these deeper roots. The directors have forgotten to even bother being inspired, except by the mantra "More, more, more!" Sub-par directors who do not understand subtlety, pacing, tension, contrast or the concept that less can sometimes be more.
Especially Abrams. His films are rushed, exhausting sprints that barely allow for poignant moments between his flat characters. There is no room to breathe in the adrenaline high of running around and explosions that are his basic bitch blockbusters.
I can't really express my love for sword fighting. But as someone who wants to one day write and film sword fights. This video definitely expanded my knowledge and for that I thank you.
I think that while swordfight are really nice, they fail at being "violent" enough to cause tension or horror at the same time that make you see the beauty on them.
That's why i belive that knife fight should be given a bigger oportunity. I think that with proper martial arts coreography you can see them in all of their glory as well as feeling tension of think that it will only take one more cut to end the fight.
Or maybe i'm just envious because my country doesn't have martial arts with swords and only with knives...
Viendo esto me dieron ganas de ver una película con peleas de gauchos con facones. Tiene tanto potencial que no puedo creer que no haya alguna película en que aparezca la esgrima criolla.
@@kaita2292 Ah al fin uno que piensa como yo
Sophisticated martial arts exist with swords, especially european ones. Cinematic convention, creative steriliy, and pandering to the masses would mean such arts would never be utilized the to their full cinematic potential.
@@allengordon6929 I agree, but for me stetic "pretty choices" should be less try for more realistic and better coreographed version
Definitely right about emotion. Never saw sword fighting like this before.
Just to elaborate on how emotion are shown in the maul vs obi wan and qui - gon fight
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you have to remember that a Jedi is told to not show any emotion and for the side of the sith they were good duelist (just like Jedi) why try to swing as heavy as you can when it can just be parried or thrown to the side and leave their back or shoulders exposed for an easy kill. That's why maul and qui gon do a bunch of light strikes, ones in which don't leave them open which shows their experience and composure in heated battles. This changes when obi wan comes in, with the anger of maul killing his master, with strikes that have alot of force behind them. But maul is cocky and doesn't just finish him off and toys with him, but in the process is caught off guard. That shows alot of emotion in of itself, of an emotion ridden padiwan trying to get revenge, a cocky sith who toys with his pray who is killed just because of that, and a masterful Jedi who learnt for emotions to not get in the way of a life and death moment.
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Not to mention how the music makes this scene have so much tension, when the laser gates go up, the music comes to a stop. With Obi-wan waiting in anticipation, maul pacing around striking at the gate showing his hidden anger just for a second, then Qui-gon turning of his lightsaber and just mediating ready for when the gate comes up and the battle continues.
THANK YOU
@@Tareltonlives seems like somebody agrees with me, this video really wasn't that good.
@@Josephistry It's such a common cliche criticism that the prequel fights lack emotion because of the fast, controlled movements. But Lucas knew that would be a problem, so he edited in close ups to show the emotions. We see this in the choreography as well. Obi-Wan is barely in control during the duel, desperate, then scared, then absolutely furious. And the story of the duel is that it's Obi-Wan's learning to think and contemplate that wins the duel, and that just getting angry is a dead end. He breaks Maul's weapon, but makes a clumsy swing and Maul knocks him down for it.
@@Tareltonlives this video is basically, Big swing good, little swing bad. Pointing out examples only from Asia like they're the gods of film and nothing can compare to they're films.
The choreography shows a lot of the strategies, the emotional and physical conditions, and who is winning.
Like in the Yoda-Sidious fight, it keeps swinging back and forth, and since Sidious is so expressive, you can tell when he's winning and losing.
In the Obi-Wan vs Vader rematch on the Death Star, it's s sharp contrast to their first fight because they're older and wiser. they're pacing themselves, they're playing it safe, they're feinting and going in slow and subtle.
I also disagree with the idea that a fight should be short. I think if there's enough buildup and stakes, and it's edited well, a fight can go on for a long time. That's why in all the good Star Wars movies, the longer fights are either intercut, or, in AOTC three short fights making up a single sequence.
You can argue that a duel lasting more than a few seconds is unrealistic, but so is staring at each other for so long.
The end fight of the first episode of The Witcher has done swordfight exceptionally well
spoiler: the sword fight in rise of skywalker is terrible
lol, the entire movie is
Fantastic video. Brilliant observations. I'd never thought about half of this stuff, but now you've pointed it out, it's so obvious.