These two giving 5/10 scores and the ditch guy straight roasting the clips with an "1 or 2 out of ten" would be gold. They could make a PPV and I'd buy it
In the books its very clear that Gregor Clegane suffers from some form of Gigantism, its frequently mentioned or hinted that he has constant migraines, and on several occasions seemed to have limited peripheral vision. Before modern medicine, Giants tend to die before they turn 40 years old Gregor Clegane is in his late 30s in this scene and is known to be a habitual user of opioates. Physically the Mountain is a wreck at this point of his life.
Yes, that is a good point about Gregor Clegane's character. He abuses opiates, (milk of the poppy it's called in GOT), in order to help him with his constant migraines.
@@rainstand2772 I disagree. The Mountain participated in numerous fights and survived. Can't do that if you aren't skilled. Especially when size is not always an advantage - when getting pelted with arrows, for example. Further, in the books during the duel Tyrion commented that he has good instincts, no doubt honed over years of constant fighting at the behest of Tywin. He is definitely less skilled than someone like Oberyn, who is presented as a genius, but not below your average experienced fighter.
@@johnsnow6952 but you see it alot with large men fighters. The tend to rely more on power than technique especially when they have exceptional strength or power.
I like having two experts on screen, it highlights the disagreements and shows that there's never one authoritative "medieval" answer. Different kingdoms, different times, different cultures.
@@averongodoffire8098 Modern Experts: 'We have a couple accounts of quite flamboyant helms worn by the duelests.' 1200s Peasant: "Can you believe the helm this one's wearing? He looks like a right wanker."
I like the fact Dave asks Toby questions. I imagine as an expert in a field, ego might not want you to reveal you don't know something, but Dave asks smart questions which led to more information for thr viewer. Also the information and combination of historical and practical knowledge from men who understand both is great, I feel like I learned alot today, 10/10
Most academics have pursued their careers of choice because they love learning. Social gatherings end up being impromptu lectures, because others are delighted to find someone that knows something they're not familiar with - and the lecturer is delighted to share their passion with others. I've only had a few isolated cases of professors being egotistical bastards: the vast majority are just huge nerds that love to learn new things.
@@NecrovokerI agree. I'm not an academic quite yet but I absolutely love listening to other people more knowledgable than me talk about different topics. I generally have a lot of respect for guys who truly are experts in their fields, even if I'm not particularly interested in that field to begin with
Anyone who's actually worth being called an expert would forego ego in favour of learning, because only through that general attitude would you be able to become a worthy expert in the first place. That said, there are a lot of official experts who are nowhere near worthy of the title - many of whom malignantly affect the outcomes of legal proceedings by providing biased testimony, for instance.
Bring these two back for more, this was great. Obviously, Toby has an insane amount of historical knowledge here, but the commentary about fighting and ins and outs played well off of each other.
I sense some disdain for Dave from Toby throughout the video (I.e.1:25, 5:00) where Dave is taking and Toby looking straight ahead with an internal commentary like “stfu, you are just making mouth sounds and don’t know what you are talking about” Haha 😂
@@747Cone nah man i think i make that same sorta face when im just listening to something/someone speak- its just concentrating and active listening imo
Big fan of Capwells---But Watch Toby with Scholargladitoria--Toby just looks bored and unimpressed but I think thats just his personality...i mean takes a different character to do some real jousting for years on end. In addition to being a PhD in medieval history...he teaches by book and experience....A very rare commodity today....
On the Martell duel, I feel like Oberyn was 100% historically accurate: he was fighting like a moron and relying on his superior reflexes and skill to win the day because of his incredible arrogance, he didn't want to win he wanted to absolutely humiliate his opponent. I've heard lots of criticisms of his flourishes but, thats the point! He died! If he had fought the mountain with the intent on just quickly and efficiently killing him, he would have stabbed him in the face 3 seconds into the duel
It was not arrogance in this case, although Oberyn is a cocky mfer; GRRM makes it clear in the books on numerous occasions how close Oberyn and Elia were. The whole Dorne was enraged after what Gregor did to Elia and her children, worst part was that his crime was covered up. This was about revenge and bringing justice, Oberyn and Dorne, wanted and needed Gregor to confess to his crimes and die for it one way another and in the end they got both even if it meant Oberyn had to die for it.
How is it historically accurate? I think you mean accurate to his characteristics and personality but give me one historical record of a person dying from dancing and dying from arrogance when in a duel to the death… don’t use the word history in this case.
@@Gnossiene369 Because if a fighter in the 17th century wanted to toy with an inferior swordsman and did Geralt of Rivia spin moves just to show off how great they were, they would also die
@@override367 And if an official duel, it would probably be recorded. I just mean that we should respect real history and stop shitting on it casually with moronic comparisons. In a duel to the death in history, the deaths were better documented than the winners. Again, prove to me that anyone that died like Oberyn. Just one. Doesn’t matter how angry you are, you don’t want to die. Even if you want the other to suffer.
@jbrady1725 these videos are highly edited and somewhat scripted. Though I'm not implying mustache dude's not humble, taking studio videos at face value is kinda naive.
8:02 - This gave me a flashback of Ned and Jamie talking in Winterfell in the first episode. "I don't fight in tournaments... because when I fight a man for real, I don't want him to know what I can do" or something along those lines.
Ned is not Oberyn, Oberyn was full of himself, wanted the mountain to confess, and his emotions got him, and he’s known to be a guy who likes to show off
-Bald -Awesome Mustache -Lots of Tattoos -MASTER OF ARMS -Teaches people to stab each other fpr money Move aside heinken guy, we got another most interesting man of the world
I was at the Tournament of the Phoenix in California where Toby fought. It was pushing 100°F and they've got 60 pounds of metal and leather on exerting themselves in horsemanship and poleaxe competitions. Unbelievable.
@@zkeletonz001 but we got the classic two-handed back-smasher - I always tried to figure out how to use that one without hurting myself more than my victim... 🤔
To be fair GoT did have a very large, skilled and quick fighter. It was just the Hound not the Mountain. It is mentioned many times both how big the Hound is and his exceptional skill in combat.
I believe the hound had combat and war experience in the greyjoy rebellion, whereas the mountain had never fought any skilled fighters except in tourneys. Although i suppose he killed Beric, but i dont think it was ever stated how or if it even was a 1v1
@@TribuneAquila He did kill Oberyn “The Red Viper of Dorne” Martell in a one on one fight when Oberyn got cocky. But the guy in the video said just once he’d like to see a big guy who was strong and quick and knew how to world a sword. That’s the Hound. From what I’ve read the only people who could have had a chance at beating the Hound were Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Jaime Lannister (in his prime before losing his hand). That’s why I kind of laughed when Tywin put a 100 silver stag bounty on him. That’s less than 1/2 of a gold dragon. Yet Tyrion pays the Dwarf actors at Joffrey’s wedding 10 gold dragons for their humiliation. It should’ve been 100 gold dragons but GRRM isn’t so good with money and exchange rates. Honestly it makes me wonder if Tywin didn’t really want the Hound killed. It’s like offering someone $10 to go punch a Navy Seal in the face. Like why would anyone risk so much physical danger for so little reward?
@@terryrodriguez6209 House of the Dragon (prequel) is coming out soon and it’s made by alot the same producers and costume designers and staff but with different actors and an even bigger budget. It should be pretty good. The story is meant to explore the Targaryens before the Doom of Valyria. They were actually a minor house in Valyria even though they were a major house in Westeros. Crazy to think of how powerful the strong families in Valyria must have been. Plus I like that it should have more magic in it since prior to the Doom of Valyria the magic and dragons was much stronger. In fact the Doom itself is speculated as being caused by probing magic too deep.
Bronn, when declining to fight The Mountain on Tyrions behalf, described Ser Gregor as such, "He's freakish big and freakish strong. And quicker than you'd expect for a man of that size."
@@joshberkin5567 Wallace collections is one of if not the best weapons and armor museums in the world, its located in the UK so seeing a foreigner working there says a lot about their expertise
I was definitely disappointed in how Peter fought in that duel. Canonically he’s already a multi war veteran with a lifetime of experience in the body of a young man in his prime. They definitely needed to give him more training
Yeah good point. I was thinking give him a break... he's just a hs kid from England. But Prince Caspian specifically talks about them remembering all their skills etc in Edmund's fight with DLF.
Didn't the kingdom basically live in peace after the White Witch was defeated ? If so, even though Peter has the experience of a whole life, he might not have fought much before returning to his younger body.
I liked how towards the end Dave Rawlings seemed to ask a couple of legitimate questions (meaning he really wanted to know and wasn't just prompting a response). Says to me "always learning". A quality that everyone can always benefit from.
I also liked that they had differing opinions on the duel between Oberyn Martell and The Mountain. Toby on one hand doesn't think that it's a good idea for Oberyn to show off how he fights before engaging the giant, but David says it's a way to release adrenaline so he can react more smoothly. I'm kind of with Toby on this one, but I can see where David is coming from as well.
I absolutely *love* how all these high-effort and high-budget scenes are rated 5/10 or 6/10, but Kirk fighting the Gorn, which can be done in practically any home-made film, gets a 10/10 or even a 12/10. Amazing, it tells you just how little visual elements you need to properly stage and deliver a scene.
Well, Kirk and the Gorn Were not Wielding Swords, Maces, or other similar weapons. That has been my favorite episode since I was old enough to turn on a TV. And I say Kirk's biggest, worst mistake was forgetting that he was told the recorder was also a _translator_ . 🤦♂
Something to remember about Peter in Prince Caspian is that he had already fought in many battles, both as a teenager and an adult, before returning to England and regressing back to the age he was before then. So he probably had as much experience as Miraz did when it came to combat. The only disadvantage he had, that I can see anyway, is the fact he hadn't used a sword(that I know of)in over a year, whereas Miraz probably trained fairly regularly with his.
His biggest disadvantage was that he didn't want to win, his idea was to stretch time as much as possible, to give girls more time for their quest. Narnia's army was objectively weaker but Miraz didn't know that for sure. So whole point of duel was to delay big battle. And it is hard to fight for delay instead of victory.
Old Narnia was a peaceful country, so he probably never fight in a formal duel. And since he regressed back to a normal 20th century teen, he lost the physical condition and the muscle memory of a trained fighter.
@@opale5373 one of Narnia's rule is "if you go back to Earth, your body will return to your old self. If you go back to Narnia, you will regain your abilities". Plus, Narnia was not the only country of this world. In the last book, they were at war against Calormene (a racist description of Middle East/Indians, because... Lewis was racist).
These 2 are absolutely fantastic together, pure GOLD! Please Insider bring these incredible guys back for more of this, it is so educating and enlightening.
One of my favorite duels is in the 13th warrior. The older guy baits the younger man by acting like he is exhausted. The younger guy is bigger and just as fast but less experienced and gets baited into making an obvious attack leaving himself open and the older dude ends up killing him. It was not a fancy fight but I think it did a nice job showing how a duel really breaks down.
Yes, you’re correct. He was well above the average height of a man in that era. 6’-4”, reportedly. He is also rumoured to be the illegitimate son of a common French archer, although others believe he was a captain. He certainly didn’t resemble his father, but he did share similarities with previous Plantagenet monarchs. Both Edward l & lll were very tall for the time, and Edward lll was said to be fair, as was Edward IV “Sun in Splendour”.
I could listen to Toby and Dave talk about arms and armour all day, I have in fact listened to hours upon hours of Dr. Capwells recorded talks actually. Would be interesting to hear Toby critique all the armour and jousting combat shown in " A Knight's Tale" one of these days.
If I remember the Narnia story, by the time of Prince Caspian, the kid actually has LIFETIMES of experience, far more than his opponent as he had lived lifetimes in the previous books, only to have his age reset when he returns to his home in Britain.
That was surprisingly good! Bringing two experts and having them discuss qualities and problems of those movie clips worked so well. I'll come back to this other times. Thanks, Insider!
Although Dave doesn't seem to add as much a Toby, having another expert in the video who is just as into these weapons and the history behind them allows him to ask Toby the right questions that we ourselves would like asked. Great stuff from both lads.
Now I feel very good about myself. I've always loved the fight scene in Ivanhoe (and the rest of the movie (and a 20-year old Elizabeth Taylor)) and now two expert agree that it's the most realistic of the bunch.
It also gets something else right (as you know too) that Modern films/series especially in the 21st century fail horribly....Color! People in almost every culture love to look nice and colorful. Every Medieval set project now is gunpowder gray. Why? Knights liked their bling!
This is excellent stuff. I could listen to these two talk about their specialties all day but maybe that's due to my enamor with medieval arms, combat, and culture.
2 experts in different but overlapping fields bantering and playing off each other and catching different accuracies and inaccuracies made this my favorite How Real Is It video by far, despite having more limited interest initially in the subject matter. More of this in future please! It's so cool to see more than one-sided critique.
In the book Prince Caspian, the perspective of the duel is actually from several characters who are watching and describing the duel to each other. I would be interested to see how the fight as written holds up to actual experts.
Also something to remember is that Peter has had years of experience in Narnia, before he got sent back to England. He’s not as inexperienced as he seems
@@baseballdragon456 his mind remembers unfortunately his body is not as prepared as it used to be unlike the oh I’d say 25 years he and his sibling spent in Narnia peter’s body just isn’t honed for battle as it once was.
@@jordanreed3675 Agreed but I’m talking about the mental aspect of it He also might be out of practice, but he’s not totally out of physical shape, as we see him going head to head with a whole bunch of Telmarines just prior to this scene. And “ The silver chair” mentioned how something about the Narnian air actually gives a “strength” to those who have been to Narnia before.
@@jordanreed3675 I don't quite remember, it's been a really long time, but wasn't it more like close to a century? At least I believe it was a very long time and that they aged slower in Narnia than they would have in the real world.
As soon as I saw the pic of these two I had to click on it. Toby and Dave are some of the funnest experts they have used on this channel, love them both.
I love these medieval rating videos! Medieval movies and series are always my favorite genre and I always asked myself if the depiction is realistic. So thumbs up, keep on going.
Loved the Ivanhoe duel since I watched it as a child. However in regards to being missmatched the movie adresses this, saying that they are a fair match (despite different weapons). When Brian de Bois-Guilbert chose the flail the herold made it clear that this forbade Ivanhoe the lance and limited his choice to either sword or axe.
It is probably harder to set up 2 or more ppl for the same date, but this was great and I hope to see more of those 2 together (and it could be even better with some other medieval combat experts, depending on movies selected to rate). This is awesome video to watch. :)
As soon as the Oberon and the Mountain fight came on I was like oh boy here we go. I like how one guy was like I really like it and the other guy was like eh. I like how they both agreed that Oberon shouldn’t habe gloated so much.
That’s why they call the heavyweight division the most dangerous. One touch one mistake and it’s over. Also can afford be the least technical. The guy who plays the mountain just had a boxing match and you can see the disadvantage of oversized muscles With movement.
That’s true. Being big and strong isn’t everything. You also need speed and agility. If Oberon hadn’t wasted so much time on trying to get him to confess he would’ve won.
Gloating was not Oberyn's true purpose - though he was storing up like 2 decades of anger against his opponent. Oberyn hoped The Mountain would cry out that Tywin Lannister had ordered the killings of Elia and her family. And from what I recall of the books at least, there was some mention that The Mountain was faster than most opponents expected. Still, minus all the chatter, Oberyn would have have won that fight cleanly instead of getting his head burst like a melon.
Based on stories that I've found online, the fight in "The Last Duel" is actually extremely accurate in how the actual fight played out. Carrouges was the first to fall off his horse, and he did use his ax to kill Le Gris. And when Carrouges had Le Gris pinned down his did demand that he confess to his crimes, which Le Gris responded to by declaring his innocence one last time
I really like the fighting scenes in The Last Duel. I felt the noises of yelling, clanging of metal lent a real heaviness of what fighting in full heavy armour might have been like. Messy, brutal and the big physicality of it. Maybe the style wasn’t correct but, it made me fell like this could have felt the way a real fight in the Middle Ages was.
I would have loved to see them react to the duels in both versions of Dune. I think it would have been great to hear their thoughts on how the combat style is in this interpretation of the future.
I'm really kind of surprised that you didn't analyze the shield duel from The 13th Warrior here. That's one of my "guilty pleasure" films that I don't tell anyone about....but that scene was BRILLIANT!!! lol
Remember that in Narnia the Pevensies lived as kings and queens for years and fought multiple wars before they got back to the real world as kids again. Peter has probably lived more years as a warrior than Miraz. And only a short while for him before he returned in a young nimble body again.
In the case of the duel between Miraz and Peter, I think the break was tolerated because both men were kings (even if that fact was in dispute) and thus, nobody was really going to gainsay them. Not since both of them agreed to it.
One thing they did not comment on the quality of the Ivanhoe depiction is... The bright colours!! The middle age taste was quite garish in colours, and this has been almost universally ignored in movies since at least the 70s... Light bright colours were everywhere, and having them and keeping them clean was a display of wealth. It is actually shocking to see them used appropriately in a movie... This emphasis on bright clothing colours continued well into the 18th century, even in many pirate's attire, which, when you are aware of it, makes the recent "Black Sails" series almost unwatchable, despite the decent research into the overall context.
Basically, once bright colours became widely affordable and easily achievable via industrialization and synthetic dyes, they were no longer a display of wealth and very quickly become associated with lower class tastes.
as someone who used to fight with a war mace, the assessment is right. the big loopy moves are a waste of energy and leave you open. keep it under control, keep your guard , and look for a hole to exploit.
The issue of moving in armor, as mentioned in the star trek clip, was the same problem for men who wore the Godzilla suits. They were often hundreds of pounds with little to no ventilation and they had to make real time normal speed battle and rampage scenes in them.
Its really interessting to hear them dissect the fight scenes. The Tallhoffer, the curator on the left Toby Capwell is referencing to with regards to Ivanhoe, is Hans Tallhoffer. He was a 15 th century german fencing master who trained people for fighting in trial by combat. He have left behind a beautifull manuscript which showes how to use a number of weapons( swords, crossbow, dagger, mace etc. It also depicts scenes from formal duals, among other showing a dual between a woman and a man. Thats where he gets some of the knowledge he is referencing to in this video. The pictures have very little instruction captioning them because as a fencing master that was what he made money on - traveling from court to court and instructing knights how to fight or every day people for duals. Really fascinating insight into medieval warfare. Realisticly - even though the fight scenes takes place in a historic setting, for the film director there is just so much he/she wants to show filmic that it would be hard to do if they where constricted to doing everything 100 % historically accurate. But fascinating with the historic insight. 😊😊
Some fun book-trivia about Oberyn's and the Mountain's duel: The reason why Oberyn only went in with a spear alone is because the edge of it was laced with poison. As he landed each blow, the Mountain was growing more disoriented. It was really only Oberyn's own hubris that led to his demise, which was portrayed pretty accurately in the show. Also, the scene was so horrific that Tyrion actually vomited the breakfast he had in his cell, something that was also left out.
@@duplonek most definitely. I find it very unrealistic that Tyrion would not have vomited in the show. Between the realization that he would be executed and the revulsion to his gruesome death, it is very unrealistic that he would just stand there.
I would watch these two guys religiously. I watched both of their episodes before and was hoping and wishing you’d put them together. So thank you! They need to start a podcast together talking about “famous” battles in history
I'm kind of surprised that they didn't review the duel in "The Princess Bride". Sure it might be very fantastical, but it's so iconic that I kinda expected it to show up here.
I've seen Toby on quite a few historical subjects, but it's really great to see that he has such a good sense of humor and doesn't rate fantastical subjects down for not being strictly historical (such as his commentary of Lord of the Rings). I love that they gave the Gorn fight 10/10, that was epic commentary!
That Rondell dagger is also much reasier to get a hold on with gloves and gauntlets on in the midst of fighting, and it usually also sits more secure in the hand.
The most interesting judicial duel I've read about started in Germany. It was a type of divorce known as a marital duel. If the couple were not able to agree to leave each other more amicably, they fought the marital duel. To even out inequalities the husband had to stand waist deep in a hole & have one arm tied up, & he fought with a club in his other hand. The wife was allowed to move freely outside the hole but had 4 or 5 stones tied into a veil the same length as the man's club to weigh her down. Any way you got to defeat the other was allowed. It rarely ended in death during the fight, although there were a lot of injuries, but the loser was executed: the man was taken to the town square & hanged, the woman was buried alive in the man's pit & left to die. This rather brutal divorce was mainly confined to the German states, although it did spread to other European countries eventually. It was so common that fighting manuals were produced showing different ways to defeat the man & the woman, complete with woodcut images. Thankfully it died out by the 16th century. One of the guides used to train people for it was the famous Hans Talhoffer's "15th century illustrated manual of sword fighting & close-quarter combat" A decree nisi is a lot easier & kinder!
Funnily enough, the fight between Peter and Miraz in Narnia is likely that Peter and Miraz have similar levels of combat experience. Peter was High King of Narnia for quite some time and was constantly campaigning. As noted in the Horse and His Boy much of the plot hinges on the fact that Peter is on campaign against the Northern Giants. It stands to reason that Peter had quite a bit of combat experience in his 15 years of ruling. Miraz on the other hand might have more experience, but I would say otherwise as its been a few hundred years since the conquest of Narnia so I kinda doubt he would have too much real combat experience. Yes there were the battles at Aslan's How but I doubt Miraz was really in the thick of it. Just a cool thing that I thought about
Miraz had a lot of experience but was getting old, Peter also had experience (mainly against Narnians so there might be a difference) but had spent years without touching a sword or wearing heavy armour
@@MiguelSanchezDelVillar Well at least in the film he had spent 1 year without touching a sword, at least while he was in the UK, obviously it was 500 years in Narnia, but 1 year isn't too much time. So I would expect Peter to still very much remember his old sword skills and not be too rusty at all.
He’s talking about Thorkell from Vinland Saga in 9:25 haha. Massive, but really nimble, strategic, and an excellent fighter when both armed and unarmed.
God everything about this is amazing . From the vibe of the setting to the atmosphere to even the swordsmanship. You sir have earned a new sub and I look forward to seeing more of you're work !
I liked Ivanhoe. If you're not familiar, the classic version of Robinhood such as the Errol Flynn "The Adventures of Robinhood" is essentially merging the Yeoman Robin of Locksley and the Knight Ivanhoe into a single character. So Ivanhoe is basically that same story of a knight defending King Richard's crown while he was away on the third crusade from Prince John and opportunist Barons. It has Ivanhoe the Knight and The band of outlaws led by Robinhood. It's certainly a dated film but if that's not something you mind I do recommend watching it. I prefer the other version of the story where Robinhood is the Knight turned outlaw and specifically the Errol flynn film I mentioned before, but this was good as well in it's own right, but this particular scene was the high point of the film, with the ending battle being fairly lackluster in comparison.
What mr. Rawilings said about releasing adrenaline & tension by twirling the weapon and showing off is exactly one of the main reasons of the Wai Khru Ram Muay before the Muay Thai fights in Thailand
An interesting comparison in culture with the trial by combat is that God decided who was right through the winner in central and southern Europe but in Scandinavia it was simply to end a dispute. The winner was the winner but it didn't imply they were in the right or provide proof of anything.
I think it's perfectly acceptable to allow two people to engage in mutual combat. If they feel there's no other way to get satisfaction, then why not? Both parties must agree, there must be rules both parties agree to in advance (when to stop fighting, no groin shots, and so on). That's probably because I grew up watching my brothers get into fights all the time. I am still always amazed how two men can fight and become friends immediately after. They will literally go all out on eachother, then afterwards give eachother compliments on how well they fought. It's like that's how they size eachother up.. Women can be so nasty. We don't usually fight physically, we fight psychologically, we play mind games. And whenever we "make up", we're usually not being sincere. I've never seen that in men.
The Flash Gordon fight wasn't about judicial combat. It was Vultan throwing his enemies onto a floating platform to toy with them. The plan was for them both to go over the side.
Oh my goodness you've unlocked a next level of intensity in these videos. I want to see two martial artists of different disciplines e.g. wing chun and....taichi or something, reviewing fight scenes that don't come from either of their own disciplines so there's no homeground advantage
If you added the ditch guy…you could have an entire series of the three of them critiquing medieval films and television
Matt from Schola Gladiatoria too, helmet and shield XD
obsessed with the fact that we're calling him the ditch guy
These two giving 5/10 scores and the ditch guy straight roasting the clips with an "1 or 2 out of ten" would be gold. They could make a PPV and I'd buy it
@@jackspence6061 shad from shadiversity too
only him is left here, hope they call him again and combo with those 2 others, they help me alot those times, best of all
In the books its very clear that Gregor Clegane suffers from some form of Gigantism, its frequently mentioned or hinted that he has constant migraines, and on several occasions seemed to have limited peripheral vision. Before modern medicine, Giants tend to die before they turn 40 years old Gregor Clegane is in his late 30s in this scene and is known to be a habitual user of opioates. Physically the Mountain is a wreck at this point of his life.
Just look at andre the giant, early on he was as fast an quick any one he faced, but by the end he could barley walk.
Yes, that is a good point about Gregor Clegane's character. He abuses opiates, (milk of the poppy it's called in GOT), in order to help him with his constant migraines.
Yeah and he’s never hinted at being a skilled fighter just huge and armed with thick armor, a huge sword, and his reputation as a deranged killer
@@rainstand2772 I disagree. The Mountain participated in numerous fights and survived. Can't do that if you aren't skilled. Especially when size is not always an advantage - when getting pelted with arrows, for example. Further, in the books during the duel Tyrion commented that he has good instincts, no doubt honed over years of constant fighting at the behest of Tywin. He is definitely less skilled than someone like Oberyn, who is presented as a genius, but not below your average experienced fighter.
@@johnsnow6952 but you see it alot with large men fighters. The tend to rely more on power than technique especially when they have exceptional strength or power.
I like having two experts on screen, it highlights the disagreements and shows that there's never one authoritative "medieval" answer. Different kingdoms, different times, different cultures.
I always love seeing people disagreeing with each other and nobody taking offense.
@@connordickerson6815 many societies really need to learn this more. They need to teach this in schools.
He should've expanded on the problem of having a heat stroke in medieval California.
Different circumstances, individuals preferences or biases, how folks feel that day
@@averongodoffire8098 Modern Experts: 'We have a couple accounts of quite flamboyant helms worn by the duelests.'
1200s Peasant: "Can you believe the helm this one's wearing? He looks like a right wanker."
I like the fact Dave asks Toby questions. I imagine as an expert in a field, ego might not want you to reveal you don't know something, but Dave asks smart questions which led to more information for thr viewer. Also the information and combination of historical and practical knowledge from men who understand both is great, I feel like I learned alot today, 10/10
Most academics have pursued their careers of choice because they love learning. Social gatherings end up being impromptu lectures, because others are delighted to find someone that knows something they're not familiar with - and the lecturer is delighted to share their passion with others. I've only had a few isolated cases of professors being egotistical bastards: the vast majority are just huge nerds that love to learn new things.
@@NecrovokerI agree. I'm not an academic quite yet but I absolutely love listening to other people more knowledgable than me talk about different topics. I generally have a lot of respect for guys who truly are experts in their fields, even if I'm not particularly interested in that field to begin with
he needs to put in some real clothes. he looks homeless.
I hope those two have maintained a friendship after this.
Anyone who's actually worth being called an expert would forego ego in favour of learning, because only through that general attitude would you be able to become a worthy expert in the first place. That said, there are a lot of official experts who are nowhere near worthy of the title - many of whom malignantly affect the outcomes of legal proceedings by providing biased testimony, for instance.
Bring these two back for more, this was great. Obviously, Toby has an insane amount of historical knowledge here, but the commentary about fighting and ins and outs played well off of each other.
I sense some disdain for Dave from Toby throughout the video (I.e.1:25, 5:00) where Dave is taking and Toby looking straight ahead with an internal commentary like “stfu, you are just making mouth sounds and don’t know what you are talking about” Haha 😂
@@747Cone nah I think Toby is just listening politely and trying not to talk too much
@@jon5059 I agree, I think he's just trying to be natural
@@747Cone nah man i think i make that same sorta face when im just listening to something/someone speak- its just concentrating and active listening imo
Big fan of Capwells---But Watch Toby with Scholargladitoria--Toby just looks bored and unimpressed but I think thats just his personality...i mean takes a different character to do some real jousting for years on end. In addition to being a PhD in medieval history...he teaches by book and experience....A very rare commodity today....
On the Martell duel, I feel like Oberyn was 100% historically accurate: he was fighting like a moron and relying on his superior reflexes and skill to win the day because of his incredible arrogance, he didn't want to win he wanted to absolutely humiliate his opponent. I've heard lots of criticisms of his flourishes but, thats the point! He died! If he had fought the mountain with the intent on just quickly and efficiently killing him, he would have stabbed him in the face 3 seconds into the duel
True. Even in the show, Oberyn could have killed the Mountain at least three times, but he was cocky and he let his arrogance get the better of him.
It was not arrogance in this case, although Oberyn is a cocky mfer; GRRM makes it clear in the books on numerous occasions how close Oberyn and Elia were. The whole Dorne was enraged after what Gregor did to Elia and her children, worst part was that his crime was covered up.
This was about revenge and bringing justice, Oberyn and Dorne, wanted and needed Gregor to confess to his crimes and die for it one way another and in the end they got both even if it meant Oberyn had to die for it.
How is it historically accurate? I think you mean accurate to his characteristics and personality but give me one historical record of a person dying from dancing and dying from arrogance when in a duel to the death… don’t use the word history in this case.
@@Gnossiene369 Because if a fighter in the 17th century wanted to toy with an inferior swordsman and did Geralt of Rivia spin moves just to show off how great they were, they would also die
@@override367 And if an official duel, it would probably be recorded. I just mean that we should respect real history and stop shitting on it casually with moronic comparisons. In a duel to the death in history, the deaths were better documented than the winners. Again, prove to me that anyone that died like Oberyn. Just one. Doesn’t matter how angry you are, you don’t want to die. Even if you want the other to suffer.
I love how Toby stops himself from saying "ruining the fun", and I love how by the end Dave is just asking Toby questions to learn from him
Or maybe humility is letting someone else share by asking them questions, rather than competing to be heard.
@jbrady1725 these videos are highly edited and somewhat scripted.
Though I'm not implying mustache dude's not humble, taking studio videos at face value is kinda naive.
8:02 - This gave me a flashback of Ned and Jamie talking in Winterfell in the first episode. "I don't fight in tournaments... because when I fight a man for real, I don't want him to know what I can do" or something along those lines.
I believe he said "I want him to ignore his fate" or something like that
@@enzocrespin5806 No, he said exactly what Oakshield quoted. He nailed it verbatim.
@@jsullivan2112 Then the subtitles in my language got it wrong
@@enzocrespin5806 Oh god yes, unfortunately translations are never very accurate.
Ned is not Oberyn, Oberyn was full of himself, wanted the mountain to confess, and his emotions got him, and he’s known to be a guy who likes to show off
"I teach people to stab each other for money"
😆🤣😂
Very realistic. 10/10
😂😆🤣
😂😂😂best introduction ever, British humour at its best.
it's silly at best. he sounds like a LARPer trying to get laid.
That had me dieing ngl
Yay! Awesome intro there, Dave. 😂😂
-Bald
-Awesome Mustache
-Lots of Tattoos
-MASTER OF ARMS
-Teaches people to stab each other fpr money
Move aside heinken guy, we got another most interesting man of the world
I was at the Tournament of the Phoenix in California where Toby fought. It was pushing 100°F and they've got 60 pounds of metal and leather on exerting themselves in horsemanship and poleaxe competitions. Unbelievable.
Escondido is not England 😂
Tossing in Kirk v The Gorn and Flash Gordon and the two lads picking up on it in a humorous fashion is delightful 😄
Yeah the poor Gorn was just out for a stroll when this ill-mannered Human comes stumbling about!
I'm just sorry we didn't get see, and hear them talk about, the patented Captain Kirk drop kick.™
And both segments offered useful insights
@@zkeletonz001 but we got the classic two-handed back-smasher - I always tried to figure out how to use that one without hurting myself more than my victim... 🤔
@@Ganiscol Some things just take practice.
To be fair GoT did have a very large, skilled and quick fighter. It was just the Hound not the Mountain.
It is mentioned many times both how big the Hound is and his exceptional skill in combat.
I believe the hound had combat and war experience in the greyjoy rebellion, whereas the mountain had never fought any skilled fighters except in tourneys. Although i suppose he killed Beric, but i dont think it was ever stated how or if it even was a 1v1
@@TribuneAquila He did kill Oberyn “The Red Viper of Dorne” Martell in a one on one fight when Oberyn got cocky.
But the guy in the video said just once he’d like to see a big guy who was strong and quick and knew how to world a sword.
That’s the Hound. From what I’ve read the only people who could have had a chance at beating the Hound were Ser Barristan Selmy and Ser Jaime Lannister (in his prime before losing his hand).
That’s why I kind of laughed when Tywin put a 100 silver stag bounty on him. That’s less than 1/2 of a gold dragon.
Yet Tyrion pays the Dwarf actors at Joffrey’s wedding 10 gold dragons for their humiliation.
It should’ve been 100 gold dragons but GRRM isn’t so good with money and exchange rates.
Honestly it makes me wonder if Tywin didn’t really want the Hound killed.
It’s like offering someone $10 to go punch a Navy Seal in the face. Like why would anyone risk so much physical danger for so little reward?
I miss GOT.
@@terryrodriguez6209 House of the Dragon (prequel) is coming out soon and it’s made by alot the same producers and costume designers and staff but with different actors and an even bigger budget.
It should be pretty good. The story is meant to explore the Targaryens before the Doom of Valyria.
They were actually a minor house in Valyria even though they were a major house in Westeros. Crazy to think of how powerful the strong families in Valyria must have been.
Plus I like that it should have more magic in it since prior to the Doom of Valyria the magic and dragons was much stronger. In fact the Doom itself is speculated as being caused by probing magic too deep.
Bronn, when declining to fight The Mountain on Tyrions behalf, described Ser Gregor as such, "He's freakish big and freakish strong. And quicker than you'd expect for a man of that size."
these two together are awesome.
You know Toby knows his stuff, an American being accepted by the Wallace collection.
Whaats that and why does being an American matter
@@joshberkin5567 Wallace collections is one of if not the best weapons and armor museums in the world, its located in the UK so seeing a foreigner working there says a lot about their expertise
@@joshberkin5567 Its harder to get accepted as a medieval expert when you come from a country that didn't exist in medieval times.
@@maxchronister7713 well said (better than me)
Respectfully, the expert should get the job :)
I would pay to have these two talk about more movies. As a HEMA student, these two are my heroes. I LOVE their fun ratings about the sillier fights!
Nice to see another HEMA practitioner.
I was definitely disappointed in how Peter fought in that duel. Canonically he’s already a multi war veteran with a lifetime of experience in the body of a young man in his prime. They definitely needed to give him more training
YES! Came looking for this comment. He wouldn’t have been as strong as he was but he’s faster and just as skilled
Yeah, throughout the whole fight they just looked like they were two drunk guys staggering around taking hit at each other.
Yeah good point. I was thinking give him a break... he's just a hs kid from England. But Prince Caspian specifically talks about them remembering all their skills etc in Edmund's fight with DLF.
Didn't the kingdom basically live in peace after the White Witch was defeated ? If so, even though Peter has the experience of a whole life, he might not have fought much before returning to his younger body.
@@enzocrespin5806 there were actually several wars, primarily against giants. They were all pretty clear victory’s though
I liked how towards the end Dave Rawlings seemed to ask a couple of legitimate questions (meaning he really wanted to know and wasn't just prompting a response). Says to me "always learning". A quality that everyone can always benefit from.
I also liked that they had differing opinions on the duel between Oberyn Martell and The Mountain.
Toby on one hand doesn't think that it's a good idea for Oberyn to show off how he fights before engaging the giant, but David says it's a way to release adrenaline so he can react more smoothly.
I'm kind of with Toby on this one, but I can see where David is coming from as well.
Some great and insightful comments from both of you. A pleasure to listen to your expertise.
Nice to see you here. Seen some of your videos. Quite insightful.
@@hound3000 Thanks, appreciated!
Hey! MODERN HISTORY! Have you watched the movie The Duel? I'd like to know what you thought about it.
@@frauleinhohenzollern not watched it yet, seen clips though and read the historical accounts it's based on.
Can we have more of these two gentlemen? They were outstanding; informative, entertaining, knowledgeable. Would love to watch more of them reacting.
Wow they did it they actually mixed a knight and a man at arms in one video.
These 2 people are experts in medieval warfare.
Thank you
They just needed ditch guy for the trio.
@@madisonlink7141 just dig a ditch!
But did either dig a ditch?
Except for Flash Gordon, all these duels could be better: if they had more ditches.
@@madisonlink7141 And the castle guy.
I absolutely *love* how all these high-effort and high-budget scenes are rated 5/10 or 6/10, but Kirk fighting the Gorn, which can be done in practically any home-made film, gets a 10/10 or even a 12/10. Amazing, it tells you just how little visual elements you need to properly stage and deliver a scene.
Well, Kirk and the Gorn Were not Wielding Swords, Maces, or other similar weapons.
That has been my favorite episode since I was old enough to turn on a TV.
And I say Kirk's biggest, worst mistake was forgetting that he was told the recorder was also a _translator_ .
🤦♂
Toby Capwell could read out the instruction manual of a dishwasher and I would still listen to it. Thank you for these!
Something to remember about Peter in Prince Caspian is that he had already fought in many battles, both as a teenager and an adult, before returning to England and regressing back to the age he was before then. So he probably had as much experience as Miraz did when it came to combat. The only disadvantage he had, that I can see anyway, is the fact he hadn't used a sword(that I know of)in over a year, whereas Miraz probably trained fairly regularly with his.
His biggest disadvantage was that he didn't want to win, his idea was to stretch time as much as possible, to give girls more time for their quest. Narnia's army was objectively weaker but Miraz didn't know that for sure. So whole point of duel was to delay big battle. And it is hard to fight for delay instead of victory.
Old Narnia was a peaceful country, so he probably never fight in a formal duel. And since he regressed back to a normal 20th century teen, he lost the physical condition and the muscle memory of a trained fighter.
@@opale5373 one of Narnia's rule is "if you go back to Earth, your body will return to your old self. If you go back to Narnia, you will regain your abilities". Plus, Narnia was not the only country of this world. In the last book, they were at war against Calormene (a racist description of Middle East/Indians, because... Lewis was racist).
Please make more of these, they are easily the best rating videos.
These 2 are absolutely fantastic together, pure GOLD! Please Insider bring these incredible guys back for more of this, it is so educating and enlightening.
My Goodness, this is a fantastic combo! These two could talk me through full-length movies. More please!
Yes my wife knows how to use a sword or a mace as well. She is from Hessia in Germany. I avoid argues with her..... Great work from you Toby and Dave!
I didn't know relationship duels were an option.. that lead to a lot more arguments going in my favour than currently.
You're a very lucky man, sir. Unless she ever wants a divorce. ;)
They clearly have some chemistry working together. Their love for the topics definitely increased the enjoyment I had watching the clip.
One of my favorite duels is in the 13th warrior. The older guy baits the younger man by acting like he is exhausted. The younger guy is bigger and just as fast but less experienced and gets baited into making an obvious attack leaving himself open and the older dude ends up killing him. It was not a fancy fight but I think it did a nice job showing how a duel really breaks down.
07:55 That's exactly the same argument Ned Stark gave to Jaime Lannister after Jaime asked him why he never fights in a tourney.
Edward IV of England was tall and well built, a really formidable warrior. TV/Films always love to add the David v Goliath moments in!
Yes, you’re correct. He was well above the average height of a man in that era. 6’-4”, reportedly. He is also rumoured to be the illegitimate son of a common French archer, although others believe he was a captain. He certainly didn’t resemble his father, but he did share similarities with previous Plantagenet monarchs. Both Edward l & lll were very tall for the time, and Edward lll was said to be fair, as was Edward IV “Sun in Splendour”.
Having them discuss is absolutely great. Hope you'll bring back ditch guy with someone else to talk to!
U say ditch guy amd everyone knows🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love that you seriously analyzed the star trek Gorn fight. That's a classic, definitely 10/10.
I could listen to Toby and Dave talk about arms and armour all day, I have in fact listened to hours upon hours of Dr. Capwells recorded talks actually.
Would be interesting to hear Toby critique all the armour and jousting combat shown in " A Knight's Tale" one of these days.
Still probably the best overall Medieval tournament portrayal from Hollywood.
If I remember the Narnia story, by the time of Prince Caspian, the kid actually has LIFETIMES of experience, far more than his opponent as he had lived lifetimes in the previous books, only to have his age reset when he returns to his home in Britain.
That was surprisingly good! Bringing two experts and having them discuss qualities and problems of those movie clips worked so well. I'll come back to this other times.
Thanks, Insider!
Although Dave doesn't seem to add as much a Toby, having another expert in the video who is just as into these weapons and the history behind them allows him to ask Toby the right questions that we ourselves would like asked. Great stuff from both lads.
I would watch an entire series with these two! Please keep them coming
Now I feel very good about myself. I've always loved the fight scene in Ivanhoe (and the rest of the movie (and a 20-year old Elizabeth Taylor)) and now two expert agree that it's the most realistic of the bunch.
It also gets something else right (as you know too) that Modern films/series especially in the 21st century fail horribly....Color! People in almost every culture love to look nice and colorful. Every Medieval set project now is gunpowder gray. Why? Knights liked their bling!
I love this format! Dual Duel experts
The gentlemanly vibe between the two experts by the end is great
This is excellent stuff. I could listen to these two talk about their specialties all day but maybe that's due to my enamor with medieval arms, combat, and culture.
2 experts in different but overlapping fields bantering and playing off each other and catching different accuracies and inaccuracies made this my favorite How Real Is It video by far, despite having more limited interest initially in the subject matter. More of this in future please! It's so cool to see more than one-sided critique.
In the book Prince Caspian, the perspective of the duel is actually from several characters who are watching and describing the duel to each other. I would be interested to see how the fight as written holds up to actual experts.
Fights in literature, that's a great idea!
Also something to remember is that Peter has had years of experience in Narnia, before he got sent back to England. He’s not as inexperienced as he seems
@@baseballdragon456 his mind remembers unfortunately his body is not as prepared as it used to be unlike the oh I’d say 25 years he and his sibling spent in Narnia peter’s body just isn’t honed for battle as it once was.
@@jordanreed3675 Agreed but I’m talking about the mental aspect of it
He also might be out of practice, but he’s not totally out of physical shape, as we see him going head to head with a whole bunch of Telmarines just prior to this scene. And “ The silver chair” mentioned how something about the Narnian air actually gives a “strength” to those who have been to Narnia before.
@@jordanreed3675 I don't quite remember, it's been a really long time, but wasn't it more like close to a century?
At least I believe it was a very long time and that they aged slower in Narnia than they would have in the real world.
As soon as I saw the pic of these two I had to click on it. Toby and Dave are some of the funnest experts they have used on this channel, love them both.
Now we need one more with these two and the ditch guy
I like how Dave was clearly laughing at how seriously Toby was reacting to Flash Gordon lol
I love these medieval rating videos! Medieval movies and series are always my favorite genre and I always asked myself if the depiction is realistic. So thumbs up, keep on going.
Tough experts. Awesome guys. Great pleasure watching and listening for ya. Thanx!!
Loved the Ivanhoe duel since I watched it as a child. However in regards to being missmatched the movie adresses this, saying that they are a fair match (despite different weapons). When Brian de Bois-Guilbert chose the flail the herold made it clear that this forbade Ivanhoe the lance and limited his choice to either sword or axe.
It is probably harder to set up 2 or more ppl for the same date, but this was great and I hope to see more of those 2 together (and it could be even better with some other medieval combat experts, depending on movies selected to rate). This is awesome video to watch. :)
As soon as the Oberon and the Mountain fight came on I was like oh boy here we go. I like how one guy was like I really like it and the other guy was like eh. I like how they both agreed that Oberon shouldn’t habe gloated so much.
That’s why they call the heavyweight division the most dangerous. One touch one mistake and it’s over. Also can afford be the least technical.
The guy who plays the mountain just had a boxing match and you can see the disadvantage of oversized muscles With movement.
That’s true. Being big and strong isn’t everything. You also need speed and agility. If Oberon hadn’t wasted so much time on trying to get him to confess he would’ve won.
Gloating was not Oberyn's true purpose - though he was storing up like 2 decades of anger against his opponent. Oberyn hoped The Mountain would cry out that Tywin Lannister had ordered the killings of Elia and her family.
And from what I recall of the books at least, there was some mention that The Mountain was faster than most opponents expected. Still, minus all the chatter, Oberyn would have have won that fight cleanly instead of getting his head burst like a melon.
Was that the Game of Thrones fight?
@@juangalton999 yes.
Based on stories that I've found online, the fight in "The Last Duel" is actually extremely accurate in how the actual fight played out. Carrouges was the first to fall off his horse, and he did use his ax to kill Le Gris. And when Carrouges had Le Gris pinned down his did demand that he confess to his crimes, which Le Gris responded to by declaring his innocence one last time
I agree. I feel these two really missed the plot on that one.
I really like the fighting scenes in The Last Duel. I felt the noises of yelling, clanging of metal lent a real heaviness of what fighting in full heavy armour might have been like. Messy, brutal and the big physicality of it. Maybe the style wasn’t correct but, it made me fell like this could have felt the way a real fight in the Middle Ages was.
The collab i never expected to see, but totally needed. Love this.
I would have loved to see them react to the duels in both versions of Dune. I think it would have been great to hear their thoughts on how the combat style is in this interpretation of the future.
Wish they didn’t skip the end of the Narnia fight- Peter grapples for a disarm to win the duel, fairly similar to the Dune grappling style
@@solvemproblerstudios5889yeah they really cherry picked out of that fight for the video
I have been dying for a HEMA breakdown of the duel from Prince Caspian, thank you Insider for including it in this video.
I'm really kind of surprised that you didn't analyze the shield duel from The 13th Warrior here. That's one of my "guilty pleasure" films that I don't tell anyone about....but that scene was BRILLIANT!!! lol
The duel from the Last Duel is one of the most intense fighting scene I have ever saw. Just amazing
I like how they have disagreements and have a good talk about there ideas.
Remember that in Narnia the Pevensies lived as kings and queens for years and fought multiple wars before they got back to the real world as kids again. Peter has probably lived more years as a warrior than Miraz. And only a short while for him before he returned in a young nimble body again.
Body reverted to "Kid," hence muscle memory would have been lost. (If you want to explain away fantasy battles...)
In the case of the duel between Miraz and Peter, I think the break was tolerated because both men were kings (even if that fact was in dispute) and thus, nobody was really going to gainsay them. Not since both of them agreed to it.
I like how this a discussion, the two have a back and forth that feels very intellectual and engaging.
Two great and interesting experts discussing the accuracy of screen duels, honestly, what's not to like?! 👌
I think the most interesting part is watching both of them exchanging opinions, discuss things and generally talk about those scenes
You can't make a video like this without "The Duellists" from 1977 which is still said to be the most realistic sword movie ever.
But none of that was trial by combat, which is what the theme of this vid was. Very cool movie though.
Yeah, disappointed it wasn't included
The Deluge?
These are medievalist martial scholars. Not 19th century.
I think this is actually my favorite of the How Real Is It series. Great commentators.
One thing they did not comment on the quality of the Ivanhoe depiction is... The bright colours!! The middle age taste was quite garish in colours, and this has been almost universally ignored in movies since at least the 70s... Light bright colours were everywhere, and having them and keeping them clean was a display of wealth. It is actually shocking to see them used appropriately in a movie... This emphasis on bright clothing colours continued well into the 18th century, even in many pirate's attire, which, when you are aware of it, makes the recent "Black Sails" series almost unwatchable, despite the decent research into the overall context.
Basically, once bright colours became widely affordable and easily achievable via industrialization and synthetic dyes, they were no longer a display of wealth and very quickly become associated with lower class tastes.
as someone who used to fight with a war mace, the assessment is right. the big loopy moves are a waste of energy and leave you open. keep it under control, keep your guard , and look for a hole to exploit.
The issue of moving in armor, as mentioned in the star trek clip, was the same problem for men who wore the Godzilla suits. They were often hundreds of pounds with little to no ventilation and they had to make real time normal speed battle and rampage scenes in them.
Its really interessting to hear them dissect the fight scenes. The Tallhoffer, the curator on the left Toby Capwell is referencing to with regards to Ivanhoe, is Hans Tallhoffer. He was a 15 th century german fencing master who trained people for fighting in trial by combat. He have left behind a beautifull manuscript which showes how to use a number of weapons( swords, crossbow, dagger, mace etc. It also depicts scenes from formal duals, among other showing a dual between a woman and a man. Thats where he gets some of the knowledge he is referencing to in this video. The pictures have very little instruction captioning them because as a fencing master that was what he made money on - traveling from court to court and instructing knights how to fight or every day people for duals. Really fascinating insight into medieval warfare.
Realisticly - even though the fight scenes takes place in a historic setting, for the film director there is just so much he/she wants to show filmic that it would be hard to do if they where constricted to doing everything 100 % historically accurate. But fascinating with the historic insight. 😊😊
Some fun book-trivia about Oberyn's and the Mountain's duel:
The reason why Oberyn only went in with a spear alone is because the edge of it was laced with poison. As he landed each blow, the Mountain was growing more disoriented. It was really only Oberyn's own hubris that led to his demise, which was portrayed pretty accurately in the show. Also, the scene was so horrific that Tyrion actually vomited the breakfast he had in his cell, something that was also left out.
I didn't know tyrion vomited at this scene. Such a shame it wasn't in the show
@@duplonek most definitely. I find it very unrealistic that Tyrion would not have vomited in the show. Between the realization that he would be executed and the revulsion to his gruesome death, it is very unrealistic that he would just stand there.
I would watch these two guys religiously. I watched both of their episodes before and was hoping and wishing you’d put them together. So thank you! They need to start a podcast together talking about “famous” battles in history
I'm kind of surprised that they didn't review the duel in "The Princess Bride". Sure it might be very fantastical, but it's so iconic that I kinda expected it to show up here.
I've seen Toby on quite a few historical subjects, but it's really great to see that he has such a good sense of humor and doesn't rate fantastical subjects down for not being strictly historical (such as his commentary of Lord of the Rings). I love that they gave the Gorn fight 10/10, that was epic commentary!
That Rondell dagger is also much reasier to get a hold on with gloves and gauntlets on in the midst of fighting, and it usually also sits more secure in the hand.
I can not believe in their knowledge until I see them fight. I propose they fight each other. Total props 👏
The most interesting judicial duel I've read about started in Germany. It was a type of divorce known as a marital duel. If the couple were not able to agree to leave each other more amicably, they fought the marital duel. To even out inequalities the husband had to stand waist deep in a hole & have one arm tied up, & he fought with a club in his other hand. The wife was allowed to move freely outside the hole but had 4 or 5 stones tied into a veil the same length as the man's club to weigh her down. Any way you got to defeat the other was allowed. It rarely ended in death during the fight, although there were a lot of injuries, but the loser was executed: the man was taken to the town square & hanged, the woman was buried alive in the man's pit & left to die.
This rather brutal divorce was mainly confined to the German states, although it did spread to other European countries eventually. It was so common that fighting manuals were produced showing different ways to defeat the man & the woman, complete with woodcut images. Thankfully it died out by the 16th century. One of the guides used to train people for it was the famous Hans Talhoffer's "15th century illustrated manual of sword fighting & close-quarter combat"
A decree nisi is a lot easier & kinder!
I love seeing discourse. Not yelling or assertion of a position, just two people who know their stuff actively discussing it. Very refreshing.
Funnily enough, the fight between Peter and Miraz in Narnia is likely that Peter and Miraz have similar levels of combat experience. Peter was High King of Narnia for quite some time and was constantly campaigning. As noted in the Horse and His Boy much of the plot hinges on the fact that Peter is on campaign against the Northern Giants. It stands to reason that Peter had quite a bit of combat experience in his 15 years of ruling. Miraz on the other hand might have more experience, but I would say otherwise as its been a few hundred years since the conquest of Narnia so I kinda doubt he would have too much real combat experience. Yes there were the battles at Aslan's How but I doubt Miraz was really in the thick of it. Just a cool thing that I thought about
Miraz had a lot of experience but was getting old, Peter also had experience (mainly against Narnians so there might be a difference) but had spent years without touching a sword or wearing heavy armour
@@MiguelSanchezDelVillar Well at least in the film he had spent 1 year without touching a sword, at least while he was in the UK, obviously it was 500 years in Narnia, but 1 year isn't too much time. So I would expect Peter to still very much remember his old sword skills and not be too rusty at all.
Big Dave and Mr.Capwell. Two of my favorites from the earlier episodes, on the same in a collaboration. Medieval hi-ya!
He’s talking about Thorkell from Vinland Saga in 9:25 haha. Massive, but really nimble, strategic, and an excellent fighter when both armed and unarmed.
God everything about this is amazing .
From the vibe of the setting to the atmosphere to even the swordsmanship.
You sir have earned a new sub and I look forward to seeing more of you're work !
I liked Ivanhoe. If you're not familiar, the classic version of Robinhood such as the Errol Flynn "The Adventures of Robinhood" is essentially merging the Yeoman Robin of Locksley and the Knight Ivanhoe into a single character.
So Ivanhoe is basically that same story of a knight defending King Richard's crown while he was away on the third crusade from Prince John and opportunist Barons. It has Ivanhoe the Knight and The band of outlaws led by Robinhood.
It's certainly a dated film but if that's not something you mind I do recommend watching it. I prefer the other version of the story where Robinhood is the Knight turned outlaw and specifically the Errol flynn film I mentioned before, but this was good as well in it's own right, but this particular scene was the high point of the film, with the ending battle being fairly lackluster in comparison.
I really love that Carrougges uses the sword like a bat in Last Duel when burying the end with the hilt into Legris’ leg
I had watched Ivanhoe as a child and it had blown my mind. Glad to see it gets real good ratings here.
Please bring these two back, they're so fun to listen to!
Love this! More "dual experts" videos would be great.
Fun to watch and apparent the two reviewers were having a good time, too. Thanks!
on the game of thrones front id also like to see their thoughts on bronn vs ser vardis and brienne vs the hound
What mr. Rawilings said about releasing adrenaline & tension by twirling the weapon and showing off is exactly one of the main reasons of the Wai Khru Ram Muay before the Muay Thai fights in Thailand
Dave's moustache alone makes this video worth watching twice
Seeing these two together is the ultimate wish fulfillement of such videos.
I wasn't prepared for the use of the word "JUDICIAL" so many times
2 of the best weapons masters there is together in a video?? What a treat!
An interesting comparison in culture with the trial by combat is that God decided who was right through the winner in central and southern Europe but in Scandinavia it was simply to end a dispute. The winner was the winner but it didn't imply they were in the right or provide proof of anything.
These guys' dynamic is definitely awesome. Bring em back!!
I think it's perfectly acceptable to allow two people to engage in mutual combat. If they feel there's no other way to get satisfaction, then why not? Both parties must agree, there must be rules both parties agree to in advance (when to stop fighting, no groin shots, and so on). That's probably because I grew up watching my brothers get into fights all the time. I am still always amazed how two men can fight and become friends immediately after. They will literally go all out on eachother, then afterwards give eachother compliments on how well they fought. It's like that's how they size eachother up..
Women can be so nasty. We don't usually fight physically, we fight psychologically, we play mind games. And whenever we "make up", we're usually not being sincere. I've never seen that in men.
Awesome guests Toby and Dave are absolute experts and it's a joy listening to them!
The Flash Gordon fight wasn't about judicial combat. It was Vultan throwing his enemies onto a floating platform to toy with them. The plan was for them both to go over the side.
Oh my goodness you've unlocked a next level of intensity in these videos. I want to see two martial artists of different disciplines e.g. wing chun and....taichi or something, reviewing fight scenes that don't come from either of their own disciplines so there's no homeground advantage