Union Pacific the "Big Boy" vs C&O H-8 Allegheny at 12000 tons! - Trainz
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มี.ค. 2019
- Here we go... Inside the railroading world, it is full of competition, although you always have a choice to see it as a celebration, which would make you or our railfan happier. But it is human's nature to compare similar things: UP Big Boy and C&O H-8... which one is more powerful, which one is bigger, is another endless topic between "Big Boy" fans and H-8 fans.
Although we are not a science lab that can show you which one is bigger or more powerful, at least you can have a look at their basic capability from our video! Thank you very much for watching! : ) - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Seems pretty realistic... UP has higher reactive effort so it can drag a heavier train from a dead stop, but C&O has higher horsepower so it can get a heavier train up to a higher speed. Nice video.
wait a minute what about the big boy 4014? the horsepower was significantly increased when it was restored. it should be around the same as the aleghenny
@@Donotdisturbme19 That 7,000 horsepower figure on 4014 is cylinder horsepower, which always has a higher figure than drawbar horsepower.
@@Donotdisturbme19 There was no testing done on the Big Boy after the oil conversion. For all they know, the Big Boy may very well produce less HP than it did with coal.
@@Donotdisturbme19 We don't know, it could increase or decrease, also the big boy does 6300hp at max and does 5700-5900 in normal operating condition the Allegheny did 6900hp in normal operating condition and 7498hp at max, it's impossible converting the big boy to oil adds 1000hp
@@Donotdisturbme19 no we don't know the HP might decrease or increase and if it increases it can't increase an extra 1200hp to be able to be the same as Allegheny.
It’s be nice to the see real Allegheny under own power again.
So from what I gather, the Big Boy is the sprinter, the Allegheny runs marathons.
Allegheny is too slippery to defeat BigBoy in the hills.
@@floydrandol2731 Wrong Floyd. Why can't you seem to learn facts? The Allegheny was less slippery than the Big Boy. The Allegheny has a much higher factor of adhesion. The Big Boy is overrated and its popularity is only based on false myths.
@@markantony3875 exactly.
Impressive!!!!!
Two of America's largest steam locomotives face it off in this race................
Amazing results they were.
Big Boy would start out a bit faster due to its advantages but would not be able to out-pull the Allegheny at speed !
great video!
Michael Brandon Big Boy has 135,000 lbs of tractive effort and the Allegheny has 110,000 lbs tractive effort, and it weighs over 1,200,000 lbs. C&O had issues with the Allegheny, so they sued Lima.
(SOURCE: 844Steamtrain)
That's completely false. There is a lot of myths within the train world ,but one thing for sure is that the big boy Will out pull the Allegheny in every way. Some say the Challenger will out pull the big boy which is also false.
Wait so the Big Boy has less horsepower
@@Toaster844 yes it does, and horsepower is the ability to to do work
Higher horsepower =higher output!
@Clinchfield 311 The Big Boy had 6200 tops, and 5800 in typical operating condition according to the research done by William Kratville for his books on the Big Boy. The 7498 HP on the Allegheny was a outlier on the scatter plot from the Allegheny test by the C&O. Maximum sustained HP for the Allegheny was around 6700 HP.
29:05 the Allegheny hit a semi truck
RIP to that truck
It didn’t hit it
It plowed through it
In reality, it's going to crash, but in Trainz, it don't.
DO C&O H-8 "Allegheny" vs. N&W class A please!!! Btw love your content!!!
Ahh a nice train to train race I love this is one of the best races I love it this one and really nice choice of trains😍👌👍👏👏👏
Thank you very much and welcome back! : )
@@Jones3DModelingClub I never left I was just looki g on difrent train games that you could play but there are no really good ones I'll try to find some but hey till then just do not give up and as I sayd before relax and make 1 video week just for the sake
If only the Triplex was available.
Great Video -It would have been so AWSOME if there was a group that could have restored one of the 2 Allegheny Locomotives that exist-so we could have see the 4014 Big Boy alive next to an Allegheny alive and both running- Hopefully it could happen one day !
not sure why some sentences in my comment have lines in them
pretty hard start but great video idea
Love Channel 💙💙💙💙💙
Can you do a remake of this video using the trainz forge big boy???
Can you a the Nickel Plate Road 765 double-header vs USATC S160 double-header :)
We will think about it. ;- )
Can some help me fix the C&O H8 for TS2009 its giving me missing dependencies....:(
same
Why is the boiler pressure so low on these runs? The Allegheny’s boiler pressure was 260psi, yet it looks to be operating at about 214psi. The Big Boy’s boiler pressure was 300psi, and it is running at about 135psi. Is there an issue with the computer models for these locomotives?
both engines were used on almost the maximum weight they can pull, obviously with both engines running at max speed with such a load they wouldnt be able to create as much steam when they are not moving, the big boy also had a much smaller firebox and heating area/surface than the allegheny so the big boy lost steam which made it loose the race to the better steam producing allegheny
@@salahelackad2005only an incompetent engineer would run a locomotive at less than half its rated boiler pressure. Maximum horsepower is achieved at when the locomotive is being operated at rated boiler pressure, with the valve cutoff set as high as possible without exceeding the boiler’s steam generating capacity. Go educate yourself on how steam locomotives really work. Read a book.
Why did you slow the big boy down towards the end? Or am I missing something?
Thanks for the question. Which part of the video? I didn't slow down the Big Boy after she reached the top speed. I only adjust the reverser to see if she could go faster. I even activated sanding to push her to go faster. : )
He did nothing the big boy got slower as it lost PSI cuz she was running
Exactly, Allegheny would have been miles behind if it got its Train moving.
@@floydrandol2731 It didn't LOL
The Alleghenies have a much much bigger firebox. It wouldn't lose steam on a hard pull like the big boy.
@@salahelackad2005 they have that triple bogey specifically for the boiler
What route be this?
The name of the route is "Fall Harvest Nebraska", a DLC of Trainz T.A.N.E, thank you for watching! : )
link?
Do a three race with N&W 1218 vs. UP 3985 vs. C&O 1601?
Is that the 2-6-6-6 allanghey cause that was more powerful than the big boy
Handsome 565 In terms of tractive effort, the Big Boy has more.
@@MackeyBigBoy4014 yea i know that's why I'm mind it is more powerful than that hp doesn't count
@@MackeyBigBoy4014 From a dead stop it does, but at speed the H8 actually surpasses the Big Boy being that it has a much larger boiler that could produce more steam and HP. The Allegheny never had an issue with starting trains according to the book "lima's Finest".
@@handsome5655 Tractive effort is NOT power. The tractive effort rating for a steam locomotive is the calculated maximum static pull at 0 MPH.
Not So! BigBoy had a much higher TE!
hey jones did you that whistle from up 4014 ro scale thats its whistle
it be true
to the C&O 1309 btw nice vids! V Part 1 of my commet v
Just for information! I thought Big Boy had a top speed of 80 miles an hour where the Allegheny only had a top speed of only 60 miles per hour wouldn’t it be hard to catch something 20 miles per hour faster?
Top speed and "power band" are two separate things. According to some numbers I've found, the Big Boy produces it's most power at about 40 MPH, at around 6,300 HP. While the Allegheny has it's most power at about 45 MPH, at about 7,500 HP.
ShayFeral thanks for the information! Love steam locomotives. I am old enough to get to see some of the last of main line steam! Love your videos!
FYI, Big Boy's top speed was limited to 55 mph per Union Pacific operating rules.
@Polar Express The Big Boy never produced 7000 HP. According to the research Kratville did for his books on the Big Boy, they had at maximum drawbar HP of 6290 when fresh out of the shop, and produced 5800 HP in typical operating condition. The Big Boys maximum power out put was at 38 mph. The Allegheny also did not produce 7498 HP. That reading was an outlier on the scatter plot of its drawbar pull. It occurred when the test train was coming out of a sag, thus was artificially high. The Allegheny was more powerful than the Big Boy due to its larger boiler, but its maximum sustained HP was around 6600 to 6700 HP at the drawbar at 45 MPH.
While we are at it, the N&W Class A never produced 6300 HP as many railfans claim. That result was from a defective drawbar test car. The N&W chief mechanical engineer knew it was too high for the Class A's boiler capacity and ordered the drawbar car examined. The defect was found, and the locomotive was retested at 5,400 HP, which was exactly what the N&W mechanical engineers were expecting for its boiler capacity. This whole incident is documented by an article from the N&W Historical Society.
The bottom line is don't believe everything you read in the railfan press. There is a lot of BS out there, especially when it comes to steam. Robert LeMassena made a career out of publishing stories in Trains Magazine where he literally just made stuff up to suit his narrative.
According to the book "Lima's Finest" one of the conductors on a Allegheny clocked it at 80 mph timing the mile markers. Not unbelievable considering how much steam the H-8's were able to produce.
Well, I like more Big Boys and Challengers
Me too
One is strength one is speed
Allegheny is both
BigBoy would flat Stomp Allegheny!
@@floydrandol2731 I know
@@Absolut531kmh "i know"
What do you know?
BBG big boy fans.
@@floydrandol2731 7500hp vs 6290.....
Who do You think would win?
What game is this?
Trainz a new era
I think the C&O is way more powerful
It is, the Allegheny can max 7,498 drawbar horsepower at 46 mph, and average around 6,900 regularly. The Big Boy can only max 6,290 at around 40 mph and averages around 5,700-5,900 regularly.
Big boy 4004?
Why is the boiler pressure so low? I thought these guys ran at 300?
You're clearly new to Steam Locomotives
both engines were used on almost the maximum weight they can pull, obviously with both engines running at max speed with such a load they wouldnt be able to create as much steam when they are not moving, they would loose a lot of steam and wouldnt be able to maintain maximum boiler pressure as a lot of steam is lost in the pistons, the boiler pressure was the highest both could maintain, the big boy also had a much smaller firebox and heating area/surface than the allegheny so the big boy lost more steam which made it loose the race to the better steam producing allegheny
@@alphazero2008Properly handled and fired, both locomotives would be able to maintain their rated boiler pressures (300psi in the case of the Big Boy, 260psi in the case of the Allegheny). A competent engine crew adjusts the cutoff to maximize engine power without using so much steam that boiler pressure drops. In this video, the operator had the Big Boy running at 140psi, which is so low as to be ridiculous. And although the Allegheny did have a larger firebox, it wasn’t “much larger” (at 760 square feet) than the Big Boy’s, which was 720 square feet.
@@turdferguson4124 no matter how well the cut off is adjusted, they cant and wont be able to produce the maximum boiler pressure, although the boiler pressure would be increased greatly
@@alphazero2008 I assure you, steam locomotives were and are operated at or just a few psi below their rated pressure every single day. They are most efficient running at the highest rated pressure, and the only thing that would prevent an engine from maintaining rated boiler pressure would be if the cutoff was adjusted too long, causing the engine to use steam at a faster rate than it could be evaporated by the boiler. That would not be the practice of a competent engine crew. Honestly, you don’t sound like someone with any engineering knowledge or who has read any steam locomotive test reports.
@@turdferguson4124 yes adjusting the cutoff too long would cause the locomotive to use much more steam than it could produce, but even if you adjust the cut off to allow the engine to reach max boiler pressure it wont be as fast
Wasn't the Big boy made for high speeds the Allegheny was made for pulling more weight slower speeds.
They were both designed for power at speed. The Allegheny produced more.
Not Really look at how low the starting TE is for Allegheny. Allegheny would stall on Sherman while BigBoy rolls past.
@@markantony3875 BS, Hp was close but TE was no contest. Now a Challenger would be a closer match.
@@floydrandol2731 does it matter? even if the big boy could start a train faster, the allegheny would EASILY out run it, starting TE isnt an argument
Big Boy vs Sam.
yes you might tell if u look
@Minecraft Farlands yeah
@@CCXmas Not only from the look it was published officially and on many sites
Big boy engines are out of syn
Union Pacific all the way!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for watching. We hope you enjoyed the race. :P
The Big Boy is the winner.The C&O doesn't stand a chance.
Sure it does and I'll give you two reasons: #1; The H-8 has a much larger boiler allowing it to produce more stream. #2; with more steam it produces more HP.
yes but the 2-6-6-6 got to 68
4014 is 80
@@CCXmas The Big Boy never reached 80 mph, and the fastest a Big Boy went was 72 mph, and that was during a test, not in service. They were designed to handle 80 mph so they can haul freight without running into any speed related issues. They reached 55-60 mph in service due to speed limits.
@@09JDCTrainMan ever heard of google and 4014 2.0
@@CCXmas Yes I have, and that 7000 horsepower rating is cylinder horsepower, not drawbar
I have been debating several people on this site. I say settle this. BigBoy and Allegheny with 4450 tons over Sherman., I don’t believe Allegheny would fair so well, only has 12 drivers versus 16. Allegheny had a slight edge in Horsepower but in the mountains it would be hard pressed to reach its maximum . I believe Allegheny would stall on the grade. Debate would be over.
@Floyd Randol I'm not dumb. I know why you did it on Sherman: The big boy would start faster and would beat the Allegheny. But the Allegheny is faster but would start the train slower and that's why you did it on Sherman. if u did it on a bit longer track would be fairer cuz if a racer was able to accelerate fatser than the other but was slower than the other who was slower In acceleration doesn't mean he won the race cuz the track was smaller you'd either do it on a longer track so the Allegheny could really show it speed.conclusion : the Allegheny would win if the track was enough long to make it reach to the big boy, and also the Allegheny would pull the train faster
@Floyd Randol Conclusion: the Allegheny would start a train slower than the big boy due to its lower tractive effort but the Allegheny can pull a train faster. And if u do it on Sherman the Allegheny wouldn't have time enough to reach the big boy, if u do it like on a longer track the Allegheny would beat the big boy. Also if the big boy could start a train faster doesn't matter cuz at the end the Allegheny could pull a train faster. Ok let's say that both locomotive could be operated for 24 hours the big boy would be able to be in front of the Allegheny for like 20 minutes, the rest 23 hours 40 min. Would be in the Allegheny's lead.
Sherman hill is to short for the Allegheny to reach the big boy. Big boy is the sprinter with it's higher tractive effort. The Allegheny Is the one who runs marathons with very high speeds thanks to it highest HP recorded out of any steam locomotive. But it would take it time to reach the big boy with its lower tractive effort. Also people say the PRR Q2 produced 7987hp In a test. Well that's true but the locomotive wasn't even moving. So It will lose HP with friction weight tender weight and aerodynamics. Also the PRR would over fire the locomotives in their tests. Which for sure wouldn't be the same amount of coal per hour.
@@abeda1636 You are wasting your time responding to Floyd. He is not capable of learning facts.
@@markantony3875 Yeah true.
All he can do is say the big boy has higher tractive effort.