#1416
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.พ. 2023
- Episode 1416
Let's get serious! Real rise time measurements with a TEK DPO70000SX. The datasheet says this scope has a 4.3pS rise time.
TEK Demo board: • #1413 TEK Demo Board F... (97pS rise)
PECL Oscillator: • #861 106 MHz LVPECL Os... (240pS rise 170pS fall)
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Wow. This might rival Shahriars lab in capability to measure fast rise times
Don't worry, after seeing this Shahriars will buy two of those.
Love your tenacious approach, 4th video and I see the engineering character coming thru. This test board is listed on fleabay for $299. I am a mechanical engineer that just got the Rigol DS1052E scope for audio "feet wet" tinkering. Will keep an eye on your excellent channel. All the best.
Looks a bit like the lab I support. Your friend must work in high speed optics/electronics =>100Ghz/lane. That is fairly leading edge stuff....1 step behind bleeding edge :-)
This was the first 70GHz real-time oscilloscope. And it is remarkably compact for a scope with its level of performance.
@Thawne1338Industrial loan or a research grant (possibly the case here). The reason they are so expensive is because of how expensive it is to produce such technology.
@Thawne1338 Not my area of expertise, I'm afraid.
There's some fast serial cables that you have to use a 48GHz+ oscilloscope to get certified.
Since we are not rich enough to buy such a oscilloscope, is there other ways to deduce the phenomenon in such high speed? Here things that I can think about:
For Sinusoidal wave form, we can use a mixer to step down the frequency, and use our regular oscilloscope and Spectrum Analyzers and even with some helper circuits network analyzers.
For square wave, we can use Fourier transform, and detect the light emission as a result of edge with infra red photo detectors. So the detected amplitude at different infra red wave length ratio could indicate the speed of the pulse and the edge.
Another way is by mixing the signal with laser in non-linear material and detecting the change in the wave length of the laser using setups like double slit experiments.
I can think of a rightly deigned (designed for high frequency application) CRT type tubes that the electric beam get exposed to the signal causes electric beam to get deflected, similar to old CRT scope, except that it is optimized for high speed. To do this we need probably much longer CRT tubes, changing the inductor in the tube that deflects beams horizontally with wide band microstrip antenna, or microstrip patch antenna, and use sign wave instead of triangle wave etc...
There are also material that their index of reflection (n) changes with electric field. Now if we pass a laser beam through such material and that material is inside a capacitor which is excited by the signal, the laser beam gets deflected.
If you can think of other ways please share.
The only thing I can share is that I had the same question. Do you need such unobtainable equipment to detect such high frequency signals? Or is there a more approachable method. Stepping down with a mixer is a great suggestion. Perhaps an automotive radar detector?
Seeing how these gigahertz scopes are now "around" gives me hope that one day on ebay.... For now my tek 1 ghz will have to do.
My business partner had a lab like that in his home. It burned down in the Colorado wildfire 2 years ago.
This is one of the saddest thing I've heard in the last 20 years.
👍There's a textronix circuit floating around uses schotkey diodes sample and hold. Probably do on chip now with Sige
Spent time debugging a 25G Ethernet link over the last few months. Would have been nice to have access to one of these to verify the signals over the backplane...
Divide by two? I think your ECL oscillator is actually a J-K ECL flip flop. It's setup for self clocking. It's kind of like making an inverting Schmidt trigger into an oscillator with an RC filter for feedback, but in this case there's no RC filter. The delay of the signal in the wire is the timing.
Kewl.
Hi, it's just WoW, thanks for the example, I wouldn't use the high-speed oscilloscope - even if it's a beautiful piece - but I'd take the Rack HP for all ten 😁 Building that rack in my bedroom study would be a luxury 🤔 but there are two possibilities who would die first, my wife - because she wouldn't be able to handle it mentally, or me - because my wife would probably beat me to death with it 😂 the miniature workplace has grown a bit 🤣
Nice day 🙂 Tom
@Thawne1338 Hello, I did not study at university, I only have a basic professional education in the field of telecommunications, but this did not prevent me from submitting three improvement proposals (small-scale production of printed circuit boards by photopath in 1984) and working in operational research and development laboratories at the workplace of an engineer. Then, in 1988, I took apart my body shell on a motorcycle a bit (unlike me, the motorcycle was pretty cool - I built it myself) and spent some time in hospitals, the doctors thought I wouldn't be able to walk normally again, so I proved to them, that I will not only walk, but also dance. In 1993, I started as a computer service technician without knowing what a computer is and how it works. A year after joining the company, I took part in a nationwide competition for service technicians and brought home an HP diploma for first place. I just enjoy the technology and I have fun, a cheerful mind and joy of work will give you a lot of energy even without a university degree.
Nice day 🙂 Tom
@Thawne1338 Well, giving some tips to a person I don't know, I don't even know the way of technical thinking is quite misleading. It's the same as when you were born, you didn't talk, you didn't walk and you only screamed when you were hungry - well, today you walk, talk and even read and write 🤔 only the scream remained when you were hungry 😂. It's exactly the same with electronics (not only with electronics, but with all skills), so the only thing I can advise you is - start learning - right from the beginning, forget what you already know and take it small steps forward.
1) the basis - components - what they do, how they can be measured, how to calculate, etc.
2) components - how they behave in interconnection and circuits
3) simple, easy-to-explain circuits - there is no art in buying and building a kit, but explaining what is happening in the circuit and why it is happening, 🤔or what is not happening and should be happening 😁 which sometimes happens with kits - not only because of the manufacturer.
4) with the acquired knowledge, gradually increase the complexity of the circuits and if you enjoy it, you will learn.
5) One of the most important things to learn is "WHY", i.e. why it behaves, how it behaves when it doesn't behave, how it should behave, why a fault occurred, etc. - thanks to the fact that always I'm trying to figure out WHY, for example, in 18 years of work as an electronics service technician in the field of industrial gastronomy, I didn't have a single complaint after my intervention.
It also presupposes having some basic equipment to begin with, and with growing knowledge, the equipment will grow as well.
After my lab was completely robbed, I set up a small electronic workshop in the alcove of our bedroom, and after a few years it looks like I don't have a workshop in my bedroom, but a bedroom in a workshop 🤣
Have a nice day and good luck with your electronics 🙂 Tom
Would love to know what's under those blue labels.
Wow! Just, wow! Does he actually have a business use for this equipment that pays for it? Or, is he a very wealthy hobbyist? My thought is that if a won a major lottery (like millions) I'd buy Tek and HP test equipment instead of low end Rigol and hacking it. I still can't imagine needing a $400K o'scope.
$400,000 - WOW!
I’m looking for my first GHz scope. I have a 10 MHz and 100 MHz Analog scopes and some Software scopes.
I want more than 2 Chanel’s and a video output for bigger display.
What would be a recommendation on the second hand market?
DHO4804 Rigol 800MHz
@@IMSAIGuy thank you very much. I’ll look at it when I get off work. God Bless.
@@jj74qformerlyjailbreak3Good luck. That scope is about $5k. I'm glade my world of electronics ends at 50MHz and I don't need anything that expensive.
70 GHz, also known as soft xrays
Lol, inputs that don't even like 5V.
Hi....!! What a good Rack...!! Super complete...👍👍
please... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!!!!
make a "pinger" for TDR using a mercury wetted reed switch.
i REALLY want to see the rise time... or if this can even capture it...
i only have access to a 500mhz, and its just showing a vertical line from 0 to 12v...
sheer curiosity. i found a research paper that suggested 50pS was about what to expect.
still havent found a circuit that can make this crisp an edge for TDR..
30pS www.leobodnar.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=124&products_id=303
it uses: ADCMP572
@@IMSAIGuy ahhh... but can it do it at 12V? assume that rise stays linear, x10 and its 300pS...
that was why i chose mercury. not doing TDR alone, exactly. lets say its a bonus feature?
i can push it to 120V safely.
it was also about $15au. half of it was the sma connectors...as i say, i would really love to see a dodgy homemade thing put up against something high-tech...
@@IMSAIGuy heres the paper... fig 5.8 is nice. oh yeah, its old.
www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/GOVPUB-C13-e88e7227d1667ed54cdfc2a65334be70/pdf/GOVPUB-C13-e88e7227d1667ed54cdfc2a65334be70.pdf