Thanks for this Real world comparison: Max. Continuous Output Power: IQ8A: 349 VA IQ8+: 290 VA Both inverters can exceed these values slightly, though the duration is uncertain. Estimated Peak Sun Hours for Texas: 6 hours Paper Calculations: IQ8A: 349 VA×6h = 2.094 kWh/day IQ8+: 290 VA×6h = 1.740 kWh/day Percentage Difference in Production: On the paper shows an approximate difference of 18.49% in daily energy production between IQ8A and IQ8+. However in your example: REC 405, IQ8+: 1.94 kWh/day REC 405, IQ8A: 2.02 kWh/day The difference is only 4.1%. This suggests the IQ8+ may sustain energy production longer throughout the day, possibly performing better in cloudy conditions or higher temperatures. 4.1% is not a significant difference, which makes the selection of the IQ8+ not a bad choice. Panel Performance Considerations: A 405-watt panel doesn’t consistently output 405 watts. Its output decreases as temperatures rise above 77°F, and degradation occurs over time. At 100°F: The panel’s power output should be approximately 387.4W. After 25 Years: The power output would be around 339.975W. Inverter Matching: Over time, the IQ8A may become less matched to the panel’s output, resulting in reduced production. The IQ8+, however, is likely to maintain a more consistent output, comparable to its first year.
Our PV system was spec'd with 31 Q Cell 405-watt solid black panels and 31 Enphase IQ8A Inverters. It's identified as a 12.5 kWh system generating 14,600 kWh annually while our annual usage is 11,600 kWh. We OVERSIZED our system to ensure it generates sufficient power in winter and bad weather, deal with any system degradation, and support future batteries.
Enphase is great and is constantly bringing out higher wattage versions of their microinverters. With panel efficiency increasing we will soon see that 480w micro they are working on become standard.
I agree. I was also surprised the IQ8A is doing well at low levels of light. I expected to give up performance in the early morning and late day. IQ8A is outperforming the IQ8+ across the board.
In SW Florida and looking for a solar solution and was really interested in understanding the performance ans clipping during the hot months vs the winters, figuring if there is clipping in tbe summers, come the winter months it would only be worse. Thanks for the videos.
You can see the impact of temperature on the Qcells vs the REC. The REC have a shadow on our setup in the early morning and then they outperform the Qcell as the day heats up. The IQ8A seem to be doing better even without consideration of the clipping. I have not yet been able to see clipping at the individual micro level, base on my setup. I'll try and get a view of this and post.
Appreciate the video on that age old question on choice of micros, "Am I leaving some on the table?" Do you have any graphs showing how often during the day that your ~400Wpanels clipped at 2%? (area under the curve showing spikes). Sounds like you did the right thing for those higher output panels. We'll be using the IQ8+ with 60 cell panels (330W). From the Enphase specs, your video and others I have seen, I think the IQ8+ will be a perfect match for the 60 cell PERC modules. The 60 cell modules have ~ same output per sq ft as 72 cell. We are doing this for most efficient use of roof space (for now and future expansion). Final array will be higher-powered. It does add a bit of complexity/cost, but it will also provide a more distributed micro-grid, should an issue occur (or be detected by monitoring) at one panel. Theoretically, the startup voltage and power usage will more efficient for lower light conditions with the IQ8+, but not much I'm sure, especially when properly sized with higher output panels able to produce it as you have done.
I do. I'll load them. What has been more interesting is the impact of wire size. They initially undersized the wire gauge. Once it was replaced, the increase was very noticeable. I'll put a video up.
Nice. I will need more all year long. The goal is to pull 2,000 KwH minimum per month. I think there will be months where I miss this, but it's the goal. how big are the QC430 (size)?
Very useful, thank you During that week in August, did both microinverters clip? It would also be interesting to compare the output of the micros during cloudy conditions.
I now have enough data to answer cloudy day questions. I'll create a new video. No clipping on the 8A. I can't see why the 8plus is under performing, it has to be clipping, but I will run a few tests.
Great set of videos, I am in a similar journey in designing a solar system, Engineer as well. Did you try Tesla solar? If so why you didn’t consider it? Of course they use string inverters vs micro but lot less cost. Speaking of costs, how much did you system cost? kWh?
We did try Tesla. The process was great, but they couldn't work with our complex roof. They want at least 5-7 panels together in a set. The complexity of our roof was too much from them. The string inverter is only really cheaper for them, they don't pass the savings along. They were one of the cheaper quotes, $2.45/kwh on panel size. We paid slightly less than that. I do think there is too much attention paid to the $/kwh. In our case we need to generate above our usage as quickly as we can in the morning and as long as we can in the day. We lose 50% of the value of the solar we generate when we buy it back. The utility charges to deliver the solar credits. Designing the system to capture early sn and late sun is probably as important as the $/KWH. We also need to look at production over cost. When you optimize this number you can get some nice results.
The IQ8+ does better on cloudy days. I bought some IQ8+ by mistake when I added 5 more panels to the array that I already had. For the last week it has been cloudy with bursts of sun. I am getting production of 1.62kWh (per panel per day) on the established system and 1.83kWh on the new panels. Now there could be many factors like the fact the older panels are 1.5 years. The original system has IQ8A's on it. After looking at the data sheets on both micro inverters it looks like the IQ8+'s start power production earlier. In Fl it rains each day in the summer and we do get clouds. I think the IQ8+'s are my new go tos.
@@serraios1989 All are 400 Watt Rec Panels. Cant say enough good things about Rec. Very nice quality. Well built. Keep in mind there is some clipping when you pair the IQ8+ with a 400 watt panel but that is not a big deal because it keeps the micro inverter well supplied with DC voltage when the clouds come. Yesterday I had almost a perfect solar day with almost no clouds. Again it made .20 to .16 more than the IQ8A. In theory the extra gains in the IQ8+'s will add up over the years. Both are pretty good choices. Had I not had anything to compare it to I would not have anything bad to say about the IQ8A's.
@@deletedsmith655 That’s very interesting, thank you. We have 395w panels with IQ7+ and the plan is to add a few more on the roof. We have seen some clipping and I was thinking to go with the IQ8A for the new install. However, the Enphase paper about clipping doesn’t show increased pv production with the IQ8A vs IQ8+ and your observations support it. Would be great if you could post an update about the pv production in a few months.
what about the rec 400 with a iq8m ? its better than the 8+ but not as high rated as iq8a. from the output you are seeing wiht the 405 do you think iq8m would suffer interms of excessive clipping ? thanks !
I like the IQ8M and based on the models I ran they were a great option for the panels. I ran the NREL software to model the performance and compare the 8+, 8M, and 8A. There was almost no impact of the micro inverter above the 8+ level. The installer offered the 8As and that worked for me. My exact numbers were 0.05% clipping with the 8M, 0.75% with the 8+, and 0 with the 8A
@@Test_Inspect awesome. I can live with .05. my installer is stocked with 8Ms, will just go with that. THanks for the reply ! Nice house, and very detailed video ! am in the dallas area myself.
@@Realmccoy818 Congrats on your new system. The one thing I recommend you watch is the gauge of the wire coming off the roof. The wire losses can range from 2%-7%. It will still work if they use cheaper wire, but you will have higher losses. Check the wire against the permits.
Thanks for this Real world comparison:
Max. Continuous Output Power:
IQ8A: 349 VA
IQ8+: 290 VA
Both inverters can exceed these values slightly, though the duration is uncertain.
Estimated Peak Sun Hours for Texas: 6 hours
Paper Calculations:
IQ8A: 349 VA×6h = 2.094 kWh/day
IQ8+: 290 VA×6h = 1.740 kWh/day
Percentage Difference in Production:
On the paper shows an approximate difference of 18.49%
in daily energy production between IQ8A and IQ8+.
However in your example:
REC 405, IQ8+: 1.94 kWh/day
REC 405, IQ8A: 2.02 kWh/day
The difference is only 4.1%.
This suggests the IQ8+ may sustain energy production longer
throughout the day, possibly performing better
in cloudy conditions or higher temperatures.
4.1% is not a significant difference, which makes the selection of the IQ8+ not a bad choice.
Panel Performance Considerations:
A 405-watt panel doesn’t consistently output 405 watts.
Its output decreases as temperatures rise above 77°F, and degradation occurs over time.
At 100°F: The panel’s power output should be approximately 387.4W.
After 25 Years: The power output would be around 339.975W.
Inverter Matching:
Over time, the IQ8A may become less matched to the panel’s output, resulting in reduced production.
The IQ8+, however, is likely to maintain a more consistent output, comparable to its first year.
@Alex. Great comments. I've been tracking the long term data and its very interesting. I can't wait to share.
Our PV system was spec'd with 31 Q Cell 405-watt solid black panels and 31 Enphase IQ8A Inverters. It's identified as a 12.5 kWh system generating 14,600 kWh annually while our annual usage is 11,600 kWh. We OVERSIZED our system to ensure it generates sufficient power in winter and bad weather, deal with any system degradation, and support future batteries.
This was exactly what I was wondering, so appreciate how you are presenting and creating the videos! :-)
Enphase is great and is constantly bringing out higher wattage versions of their microinverters. With panel efficiency increasing we will soon see that 480w micro they are working on become standard.
I agree. I was also surprised the IQ8A is doing well at low levels of light. I expected to give up performance in the early morning and late day. IQ8A is outperforming the IQ8+ across the board.
@@Test_Inspect Interesting to hear. Keep your insights coming 😊
In SW Florida and looking for a solar solution and was really interested in understanding the performance ans clipping during the hot months vs the winters, figuring if there is clipping in tbe summers, come the winter months it would only be worse. Thanks for the videos.
You can see the impact of temperature on the Qcells vs the REC. The REC have a shadow on our setup in the early morning and then they outperform the Qcell as the day heats up. The IQ8A seem to be doing better even without consideration of the clipping. I have not yet been able to see clipping at the individual micro level, base on my setup. I'll try and get a view of this and post.
@@Test_Inspectwere you able to see any clipping yet?
Appreciate the video on that age old question on choice of micros, "Am I leaving some on the table?" Do you have any graphs showing how often during the day that your ~400Wpanels clipped at 2%? (area under the curve showing spikes). Sounds like you did the right thing for those higher output panels. We'll be using the IQ8+ with 60 cell panels (330W). From the Enphase specs, your video and others I have seen, I think the IQ8+ will be a perfect match for the 60 cell PERC modules. The 60 cell modules have ~ same output per sq ft as 72 cell. We are doing this for most efficient use of roof space (for now and future expansion). Final array will be higher-powered. It does add a bit of complexity/cost, but it will also provide a more distributed micro-grid, should an issue occur (or be detected by monitoring) at one panel. Theoretically, the startup voltage and power usage will more efficient for lower light conditions with the IQ8+, but not much I'm sure, especially when properly sized with higher output panels able to produce it as you have done.
I do. I'll load them. What has been more interesting is the impact of wire size. They initially undersized the wire gauge. Once it was replaced, the increase was very noticeable. I'll put a video up.
I will also load the data on the performance against the expectations.
You’ll need more than that for Jan-Feb if you are all electric. 31kWpv - QC430 and REC405’s and 143kWh diy LFP did the trick.
Nice. I will need more all year long. The goal is to pull 2,000 KwH minimum per month. I think there will be months where I miss this, but it's the goal. how big are the QC430 (size)?
Very useful, thank you
During that week in August, did both microinverters clip?
It would also be interesting to compare the output of the micros during cloudy conditions.
I now have enough data to answer cloudy day questions. I'll create a new video. No clipping on the 8A. I can't see why the 8plus is under performing, it has to be clipping, but I will run a few tests.
I look forward to your new video. Would be interesting to see if the 8+ produces more than the 8a on cloudy days
Great set of videos, I am in a similar journey in designing a solar system,
Engineer as well. Did you try Tesla solar? If so why you didn’t consider it? Of course they use string inverters vs micro but lot less cost. Speaking of costs, how much did you system cost? kWh?
We did try Tesla. The process was great, but they couldn't work with our complex roof. They want at least 5-7 panels together in a set. The complexity of our roof was too much from them. The string inverter is only really cheaper for them, they don't pass the savings along. They were one of the cheaper quotes, $2.45/kwh on panel size. We paid slightly less than that. I do think there is too much attention paid to the $/kwh. In our case we need to generate above our usage as quickly as we can in the morning and as long as we can in the day. We lose 50% of the value of the solar we generate when we buy it back. The utility charges to deliver the solar credits. Designing the system to capture early sn and late sun is probably as important as the $/KWH. We also need to look at production over cost. When you optimize this number you can get some nice results.
Does the iq8+ produce more than the iq8a on cloudy days?
What about the pv production over a few months?
The IQ8+ does better on cloudy days. I bought some IQ8+ by mistake when I added 5 more panels to the array that I already had. For the last week it has been cloudy with bursts of sun. I am getting production of 1.62kWh (per panel per day) on the established system and 1.83kWh on the new panels. Now there could be many factors like the fact the older panels are 1.5 years. The original system has IQ8A's on it. After looking at the data sheets on both micro inverters it looks like the IQ8+'s start power production earlier. In Fl it rains each day in the summer and we do get clouds. I think the IQ8+'s are my new go tos.
That’s very useful, thank you. What’s the wattage of the new and the older panels?
@@serraios1989 All are 400 Watt Rec Panels. Cant say enough good things about Rec. Very nice quality. Well built. Keep in mind there is some clipping when you pair the IQ8+ with a 400 watt panel but that is not a big deal because it keeps the micro inverter well supplied with DC voltage when the clouds come. Yesterday I had almost a perfect solar day with almost no clouds. Again it made .20 to .16 more than the IQ8A. In theory the extra gains in the IQ8+'s will add up over the years. Both are pretty good choices. Had I not had anything to compare it to I would not have anything bad to say about the IQ8A's.
@@deletedsmith655
That’s very interesting, thank you. We have 395w panels with IQ7+ and the plan is to add a few more on the roof. We have seen some clipping and I was thinking to go with the IQ8A for the new install. However, the Enphase paper about clipping doesn’t show increased pv production with the IQ8A vs IQ8+ and your observations support it. Would be great if you could post an update about the pv production in a few months.
what about the rec 400 with a iq8m ? its better than the 8+ but not as high rated as iq8a. from the output you are seeing wiht the 405 do you think iq8m would suffer interms of excessive clipping ? thanks !
I like the IQ8M and based on the models I ran they were a great option for the panels. I ran the NREL software to model the performance and compare the 8+, 8M, and 8A. There was almost no impact of the micro inverter above the 8+ level. The installer offered the 8As and that worked for me. My exact numbers were 0.05% clipping with the 8M, 0.75% with the 8+, and 0 with the 8A
@@Test_Inspect awesome. I can live with .05. my installer is stocked with 8Ms, will just go with that. THanks for the reply !
Nice house, and very detailed video ! am in the dallas area myself.
@@Realmccoy818 Congrats on your new system. The one thing I recommend you watch is the gauge of the wire coming off the roof. The wire losses can range from 2%-7%. It will still work if they use cheaper wire, but you will have higher losses. Check the wire against the permits.
@@Test_Inspect what’s the best gauge to use ?