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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2022
- I have made a lot of things with mechanical gears so far but you know they have some inherent problems. Noisy operation, needing lubrication or wear on tooth. I wouldn't really call them problems though. Because very high torques can be transmitted with them. But we also have an amazing option like magnetic gears, which don't require contact because they work through magnetic forces.
For this reason, things like wear or damage due to over torque in mechanical gears do not happen with them. Also, one of the most beautiful things about magnetic gearboxes is that they work much quieter than mechanical gears and they absolutely do not need any lubrication.
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Couldn’t you switch out the magnets for electromagnets and alter which ones are turned on and at what power in order to change the “gear” ratio. It would make car transmissions way simpler and probably many other things.
Yes, that works, but it takes so much power to operate the electromagnets that any mechanical transmission (even continously variable designs) is more efficient.
In principle that would work, but if you go that far, why not just use an electric motor that doesn't require a gear box to drive your car? Oh, wait... 😊
@@helmutwalle2105 correct me if I'm wrong but on paper, the following could work.
Assigning a static motor as input. Use a audrino with electric magnets. Have the external module installed with 24 (or more) electric magnets. The audrino will simulate a gear shift powering 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and all electric magnets. The more magnets that get switched on, the faster it would spin. It would also be able to change direction so you'd have forward and reverse. In theory it could work. Please try. I don't have a 3d printer. The housing would be larger than the current 1st Gen. If it works in practicality, then not only would Manuel give you a smoother shift, but automatics would would get you a faster than current shift. Almost like a live shift. It will also eliminate the "Manuel vs automatic" argument as you would be able to switch between the two variations.
@@helmutwalle2105 Electric cars still have a single speed gearbox/reducer. Usually around 9:1.
@@VNCTHE1 - yes, I know many still do. The technology used in production EVs is not very sophisticated. This may change in the future.
I wonder how deep this could go. Could you build tiny electromagnets and power them wirelessly and use that as a means of controlling them to change how the "gearing" interacts?
why just not use a motor at this point?
The answer would be yes but it would have to match pole pairs with flux modulators
A mag clutch would do. They have been used to drive screw superchargers. Have gear/pulley set to 100% speed then reduce clutch power to allow for slip.
Magnetically coupled motor assemblies have been done before, the issue is the load, a mechanically driven assembly will always outperform and significantly cheaper and less complicated
That's how the predecessors to servo motors worked!
there is a reason we dont see these used very often
it is because they have really bad efficiency , cost and torque handling
and in all but a few very VERY specific cases it is way cheaper and way better to either use a conventional gearbox
or to grab an off the shelf electrical motor that fits the parameters needed
This comment needs to be at the top. Magnetic gear boxes are a joke for the application shown.
@@byugrad1024 exactly even the cheapest nylon gears and gearboxes can handle more torque and cost pennies to make
only thing "amazing" about it is how amazingly naive the commenters are...
completely useless for any application where output has variable load (99% of applications), let alone replace an automotive transmission...
Super interesting! Never heard of a magnetic gearbox, but I can see how it could excel in the right application.
this is an excellent design! 👏😎
Thanks a lot!
it looks amazing man well done! I think the balance of the parts as well as their torsional strength to resist warping is the most important for high speed....balance above everything.
I saw some people made dynamic balancers....could be a fun project especially if you like making motors
Neat project. Love the comments from trained engineers and innate gearheads who know the plusses and minuses of a system like this.
The comments are awesome. I'm just a layperson who can usually keep up with technical discussions but everyone here are talking way over my head, and I love it.
Thanks so much for this awesome demonstration! It's one of the most comprehensive I've seen!
It'd be interesting to see a thermal view. Using magnetic flux to transfer the power, I imagine you must be losing some energy as heat.
Yep, and heating up magnets tends to demagnetize them. So, there is some wear and tear.
@@user-pd2rp7rf9v Doesn't matter - I'm assuming no touching between the parts.
@@user-pd2rp7rf9v you wouldn't use gear oil, too thick and would loose power to that. could use some really thin oil as a coolant probably though
as long as they are below currie temp they will last a long time
@odysseus9672 Main heat dissipation happens I the passive flux modulator, which will not cause permanent damage. Also curie temp for modern materials is above 300 C° so plastic melts first.
Cool! I would wonder about entirely blaming the bearings at the end though. At 10k RPM the modulator cores are seeing about 100k magnetic field flips per second I think, and your screws might not be up to operating efficiently at 100kHz. They might want to be ferrite rods, rather than conductive.
Did you record the input RPM at all for the max speed runs? Is it overloading the motor and bringing its RPM down, or is it slipping*? Also, when running it like that, what gets hot?
*Incidentally, being able to slip without damage can often be a desirable feature, rather than a problem.
the modulator cores i guess because of rapid changing magnetic fields like in power transformers, but much more because of higher frequency
"being able to slip without damage can often be a desirable feature" EXACTLY !! I RECKON THAT'S THE BEST BIT OF THE IDEA
Leads to more slip under load
Avoiding large amounts of damage and not having to take the gas turbine down to replace the shear pins sounds like a great idea to me
They don't get 100k flips a second, but 1.6k, rpm is rounds per minute.
this design has greatly improved since i last saw it and it looks like it runs much smoother now, very excellent
Great video. My favorite kind of video is where I understand about 90% of it.:)
Hey I commented on your last video about magnetic gears as well, I am PhD student who’s focus is on the design and analysis of magnetic gears. Great work so far. I have built many larger scale prototypes (with slip torques of greater than 50 Nm) and have quite the experience with optimization of MG designs, let me know if you want any tips for your future projects.
Hi I'd like to know more about these, would like to know large scale application of the same, I'm working on a project to implement these magnetic gear boxes for industrial conveyor systems
Could you make an LSD (limited slip differential) with this?
@@ZartaxtheWise
I don't think that this would exactly be used for a LSD, that said they do have electronic LSDs that use a motor and clutch pack to control wheel slip. Loosely a motor has a similar design as this, but since this reduces torque and multiplies speed it would likely not be useful as I could imagine those applications need more torque
Hi Selek, do you know what is efficiency for transferred energy. I see no reaction on bearings in that scheme, no friction in moving parts, it means no losses of that kind, but are there any other specific losses of energy
@@horeca-tech6741 the magnets will induce Eddy currents in the metal components and heat that metals up which mean from magnetic energy loses into thermal energy (heat).
I was psyched up, bout to watch this awesome looking video and learn how this little gearbox works. Then he broke out the magnetic field viewer and I instantly didnt care about the gearbox anymore. How did I not know that was a thing. Thats amazing. Mind blown. Then I got back into it when he put the motor on it, and bam cant beleive thats how he ended it 😆
The genius ability which lets you manifest your inventions into existence and your dedication to that process is something so amazing and valuable!!! I strive to and hope to get to that level in the future myself.
2 ideas: 1) Build multiple units and connect them in series where 1st's output powers 2nd's input and so on.
2) Keep adding multiple layers of concentric alternating circles while increasing components at the established rate. Like a Russian nesting doll.
thank you for proving this concept. I've been trying to do this by carving by hand.
In case you wonder why you don’t see these anywhere in your daily life, here’s the reason. They are only good for low to ultra low torque applications because the gears slip so so easily. But in low torque applications, wear and tear is also proportionally negligible if you just use a conventional gearbox. Remember the only advantage of magnetic gearing is low friction leading to low wear and tear? Yeah. These make interesting TH-cam videos. Practicality wise, 🤷
Bingo.
i think you just test this with more rigid materials like epoxy or fiberglass/carbon wrap. this looks like a viable option once you play with different materials and balance out the radial forces so there’s no interference at high speeds. will probably try to replicate and do tests in the future for fun
This is an incredible proof of concept. Many refinements could be made to increase longevity of the mechanism and possibly create a viable system. keep up the good work.
I've visualized this for years, I'm stoked to actually see it!
Really interesting.
I recently dismantled a speedometer from a 1950s British motorcycle, it stopped working so I thought I’d take a look inside. I was very surprised to see it was magnetically driven, a really simple design, but it seems to be pretty accurate. It’s basically a spinning bar magnet within a steel dish & seems to work on “slip”.
It turned out the input bearing was seized, I managed to repair it & get it back together, it was never designed to come apart so it’s a little bit dented in places, but it works again.
Yes, that's how traditional speedometers work, and most people probably don't realize that. Good job figuring it out from just looking at the parts.
From what I've heard, the 'slip' you talk of is caused by the same effect that causes a magnet to fall slowly when dropped through something like a copper or aluminium tube. Even though the metal of the tube isn't magnetic itself, the magnet induces a current within the metal which causes a magnetic field opposing the magnet.
@@Stonemonkie1 What you're describing in the tube is the formation of eddy currents which creation their own magnetic field and resist the movement of the orginal magnet, this cause it to slow down.
Slip for magnetic fields and rotors is the need of a difference in speed between the magnetic field and the rotor. Without a relative difference in speed, no current is produced in the rotor to make a magnetic field to be pushed on by the original magnetic field. Without this there's no motion for the rotor.
@@chrisstubbs6391 the rotor isn't turning with the magnet, there's a spring holding it.
@@Stonemonkie1 If the rotor isn't spinning its by definition not the rotor
Excellent video! I've never heard of a magnetic gearbox and I've been in automation for 30 years. Always new things to learn :)
You know the reason why.
@@ettorebugatti6846 Is that a question?
@@adisharr nooo, it was because homeopathic gears ar not used for transmiting force.
@@ettorebugatti6846 Homeopathic gears?
@@adisharr Doesn't show up on google.
You just disigned the future gearbox. Great work! Now perfect it.
I saw the title of your video and I subscribed. It's the first tiime I've seen your channel in my TH-cam feed.
I had a gear set made by Lego around 1970, and learned gear ratios then. This could really be marketed as an educational toy as well, if enough different bits and pieces were included.
Heck, I might be tempted to buy one for myself!!👍
You should try to make a prototype using a halback array configuration and also decrease the distance between the magnets and the grey core!
Dude..... i am Not sure that you can comprehend what a revolution you just started on my head...
I am just pazzled why I didn't think of it all this for all thus years myself??
Any how thank you for this great video!
Fascinating content presented in a way that made me laugh multiple times. Great vid
It would be awesome to use magnetic bearings as well! Maybe a 3 dimensional layout can also accomplish this? Great vid thanks!
oh mind blown ... 🤣
Around about 2012, I can recall a company called Magnomatix (or was it spelled Magnomatics?) what did a video explaining the concept behind their magnetic gearboxes. It was a 2D animation. Now, in 2022, this is the first real-world example that I have seen of one working.
Just... you standing _that_ close to a 3D printed prop that's spinning _that_ fast? Yikes! What if the prop itself had exploded?
Excellent work, all the same, though.
I was covering my face with PEI sheet but I guess it doesn't show in the video lol
The company was Magnomatics, and that's the name of their TH-cam channel with those animations
@@brianb-p6586 Yea, I couldn't remember how their name was spelled, & all I could remember were those animations.
I thought it was a pretty cool concept, back then. =^/.^=
So many people here seem to have the same questions or misconceptions so here are two main things I've seen:
Can magnets loose their magnetism?
Magnets can be created and lost under extreme circumstances, for example when a magnetic material is heated up to near its melting point, the inner aligned particles are free to rotate however. I also believe you can change the polarity of a magnet with a strong enough magnetic field to force the particles to rotate.
Will the gear slip? Yes, under sufficient load, however with powerful magnets you'd be surprised to see that it can carry over a lot of force.
Wow! Thanks. I thought i knew a lot about gears. But what is the efficiency regarding heat generation due to the changing magnetic fields?
This is awesome, great work!
Unrelated to this, though sort of related: it would be AMAZING if you could do a magnetically balanced axle, i.e. magnetic bearings instead of friction. A 3D-printed magnetic bearing system for a magnetic rotor would be worth some money!
Well I think magnetic bearing is already exist but it still use common bearing, it's called electric motor 😬✌️
Oh wow that’s cool. I imagine that’s also somewhat shock-resistant as a big shock could just be cushioned by the magnets, or maybe even skip some pole pairs, but either way it wouldn’t get destroyed. I wonder how much power it can transmit, in a mechanical gear you get all the power sent through minus a bit of loss as long as the forces aren’t enough to shear off the teeth but I expect this would have a maximum torque that the magnets can hold before it slips. I’d also like to know about any eddy currents and heating effects in the non-permanent magnets and bearings.
Yes, in fact the slipping is what people seem to like about these. While with standard gears you will simply have the teeth break off or other weaker parts damaged if parameters are exceeded, here you can adjust the magnets so that they slip at a specific force where nothing gets damaged yet. Very convenient.
Never knew these things even existed until I saw this video. Ingenious.
i hope you make a follow up video about this magnetic gearbox to work underloads, because i am quite interested in how much it can carry or lift a sum amount of weights until the magnets lost it's traction.
Cool project but inefficient for real world applications. Could you do a follow-up and show the efficiency comparing it to mechanical gear. It would be an interesting video
Purely due to limitations of having to use a 3d printer and screws. If it were made with any kind of precision it would be more efficient than any mechanical gearbox, and slip wouldn't result in catastrophic failure, just efficiency losses, which, if anything could be a great diagnostic tool if something goes out of spec. It can accept 2 inputs as well, though the utility of that is a bit more questionable, I'd argue. Though in applications where timing is critical, I don't think these would be great.
Magnetic bearings would ideally be incorporated to have a zero wear/contact mechanism. This may cause a problem with the lower tolerances allowing for vibrations, possibly making it unsuitable for high rpms or high vibration environments.
You could treat them like journals and lubricate them accordingly if you design high-tolerance parts. It would be a gearbox with a much lower lubrication requirement than a standard gearbox, and with a built-in failsafe torque as well
The grey plastic ring-gear widens because of the centrifugal force, at this high speed.
Great project!
Its pretty cool what he's doing. Its been done before and didnt catch on for various reasons. "The Owen Magnetic was a pioneering American brand of hybrid electric luxury automobile manufactured between 1915 and 1922. Car models of the brand were notable for their use of an electromagnetic transmission and were early examples of an electric series hybrid drivetrain."
ahhh nice work although you seem to hitting the same brick wall that i did IE the cogging out at higher RPMS... you could try a hybrid design possibly and add and EDDY current arrangement in to the whole array. The eddy currents would mitigate the cogging.
good luck thanks for posting
Si
Also maybe a Halbach array for the pole groups instead of double magnets to make for stronger fields for more torque.
This would probably also work a lot better with a Halbach array as well, so that all magnetic flux is focused internally.
This is an epicyclic gearbox as used in bicycle hub gears and wind turbines. They normally use straight cut gears but are are the most efficient type of gearbox.
This is so amazing. I wonder what applications this could be used in if you were to create a production grade device of this?
Cool concept and it could be very useful in many applications, one concern I have is certain heat temperature makes metal non magnetic, I wonder what is the tolerance of this gear system
I see a couple of improvements that could reduce the wearing of the plastic by the set screws. 1 replace them with free spinning bearings. 2 put in a delron spacer in between the ring gear and the modulator. Delron being a high density plastic that reduces the friction between metal and itself
just to correct you Delrin or acetal, same thing.
Amazing video, thank you for that! Do you maybe have a list of the specific materials needed to build the magnetic gearbox you built. Thank you in advance.
Amazing work. As you increased the ratios and the speed, I couldn't but think about the drive torque limits. In a mechanical gearbox the gearset shear strength is the limiting factor before failure. Here there wouldn't be a failure (assuming not 3D printed with plastic resin), but there would be slippage at the torque limit. For a practical application, with little wear, how do you determine the torque capacity?
Seems the torque capacity would be determined by the strength of the magnets, past that point it would be like sheering the teeth off of a gear.
The issue with this at scale, in a full sized truck I think the magnets would be strong enough to fry your laptop's hard drive, though an SSD would be fine of course.
These are very interesting indeed my question is have any over these been put into production or even used in any full version projects?
Yes, they are, although I don't know much about them. We had a job come to our welding shop to build a small platform for a pump system. It will have a 40HP motor and a pump with an integrated magnetic gearbox. It has to be built pretty rugged and with tight tolerances. The motor turns at 3600 RPM, whereas the pump spins at nearly 10,000 RPM. In this case, the motor weighs 600 lbs. where the pump is 55 lbs. Sundyne is the company supplying the pump and motor.
nice, I learned today of the existence of magnetic gearboxes.
Clever concept, I like it, I think the separator/orbiting gear simulator needs a front bearing as well.
This was a great video; I also love magnetic gears. However, I have a problem with them that I haven't been able to find a concept for. I cannot see how magnetic gears could compete with higher torque transmissions than what most have shown. Gearing down could possibly solve the issue, but this would increase the size of such contraptions that use magnetic-gearing. Do you think you'd be able to show an example of a much higher torque transmission load without much reduction (or comparable to a mechanical reduction)? An example could be a magnetic-transmission comparable to a car's transmission (scaled down, of course). I would be super grateful of some proof (if it exists) that magnetic-gears could compete with the torque transmission loads of a mechanical gear.
I've designed and messed around with magnetic gears and what I've found as their biggest issue was the requirement for magnetic coupling strength to match tourqe output.
Earnestly however with the newer magnetic materials this is not much of an disadvantage over gear teeth, expect in the tremendous additional costs!
@@humanistwriting5477 everything is about cost blows ass but yea
@@3CODKing the metrics of costs increasingly defy logic, in a solar system that is soon to be mined with more minerals then everyone could use a thousand times over, and more energy from the sun then we could use a billion times over!
But, till the time comes, it is what it is.
I'm wondering about the max torque this can produce before slipping 🤔
Me too, it would be totally incredible to use this setup and it can handle high torques...just imagine what you can do with that in real life!!
About 99% less max torque than the equivalent mechanical gearbox I’d guess.
It would be interesting to see optimized power generation between teethed and magnetic gears for wind generation, because while magnetic has speed, curious how it translates into generating power.
Hey nice video!
How is the power train and harnessing compred to the "orthodox" planentary and manual gear? Lets say we make 1 of each of the 3 in the same size and powered by the same type of force(lets say a small motor) which gear orientation will harness the power better? Hope to see your answer :)
I think the result was amazing considering that you mostly used 3D printed materials. 👌
just imagine the eddy currents on the screws
Yes, they're a poor design. Simple rectangular bars would be much better, trapezoidal (keystone) section bars would be better, and a stack of laminations would presumably be much better.
Congratulations, nice project. What could happen if you replace the steel screws with copper rods?
Awesome! I just found your channel and subscribed!
great idea, what is the torque that can be transferred? Did you also try a 90° bevel gearbox?
Amazing and clever work ☺️
Great job, I have never seen one of these before
Can't upvote this enough, especially the humor :D
Es la transmisión ideal para los vehículos
Saludos 🇲🇽
BOSS you mage new revolution of gear box..u r got dump Genious.......i salute you
Wonderful.
Keep up the good work
I want to achieve something a little bit weird, by having the smaller rotor turn slower than the outer one. I guess I have to fit more teeth/poles on it, and have fewer, larger ones on the outer ring?
Excellent design. Have you measured the torque and efficiency of the magnets? knowing that would be interesting.
It's funny cuz i love watching these types of video even though I don't understand what you guys are talking about... Just love the process😌
Instant subscribe! So clever!
I have a couple questions. First is, do the screws heat up with the magnetic fields passing over them. And secondly. Is there a way to add a generator inside this- maybe a couple coils somewhere. Or would that interfere with how the thing works?
I can only imagine the amount of times it slipping when trying to turn a heavy object.
Also your "Oh" at the end of the video made me thought there's a person behind me (wearing earphones), scared me for a moment
A very interesting concept, I'm worried about heat dissipation and the materials used though.
I wonder how torque behaves with one of these, could you make a video about that please?
So does it get hot?
What is the efficiency compared to a standard gear box?
What KW Nm can you put though it?
Very cool idea. Nice job. 👍
How many can you put together to increase the torque 🤔 or is there a limit to that? Also, I wonder how much difference it would make if one of the magnet sets were brushless electromagnets.
I’m curious though. What kind of torque can this handle? The key point of gear boxes are necessary for change or rpm but the torque tolerances. If you can go from 6 to 1 on the torque but if the output is limited 1 ft/lb of work then what is the benefit. I imagine magnetic transmissions have very little torque tolerance before the work end has to much load and cause the gears to just slip constantly. Especially if your using permanent magnetic instead of electrical magnets.
Very cool video. Great concept.
but need starter. and can be unsincronized right?
what aplication you think can be good for? Because due to his no torque, or super low torque cant find.(maybe cruise speed for electric cars or wind turbine?)
Amazing!
Can be a sort of clutch also!
will the magnets degradation be an issue for long term use?
I wonder how large these can be scaled up to. For example, could they be used to power propellers on boats or submarines in a way that completely seals off the hull (and engine) from the water, potentially creating a more fail proof and more easily maintainable drivetrain for such systems.
Oh my God your funny. Best video ever. Oh and the engineering is fantastic. ++ in my book. Nice work.
So you could use one off these to 100% waterproof a stuffing box on a boat or ship if you could build a very thin case between the gray and red segments?
I wonder if you can use magnetic gears as some sort of clutch
Example if you have a motor as an input to prevent the motor from stalling the magnetic clutch will always allow the input to continue to rotate if to much load is applied.
Would this not use more power to overcome the magnetic attraction?
this is really cool hopefully we see more like it
As crazy as it sounds, you should make the bearing for the propeller* the same as the gear(magnetic). Maybe get a 2 to 1.
These are pretty neat but stall and starting tourqe are an issue
Since using gears with a prime number of teeth helps keep gears from wearing down, would magnetic gearing based on prime numbers also slow down degradation of the magnets ?
I know, I know!!
Their extreme inefficiency!?! Amazing.
you may want to consider arranging the magnets in a Halback array to allow better toque tolerance
Great job 👍 I would like to found out something like that which can be used anywhere without electricity
From practicality stand point, the power source connecting still need mechanical connections.
Is there a way we can achieve magnetic connection from power source to gear box to propeller?
Could you work this like an induction hob mixed with a motor and like flow a current through a wire around coils induce a current to create a similar result
Clear explanation brother 🖤
Don’t forget the modal interaction of magneto reluctance, and capacitive deractance you also have to remember the prefamulated amulite casing grammeters and the fact that there are specialized applications for something like this
Thank you for explaining it simply.
Neat! I wonder where this will find application; it has some interesting characteristics.