Of course it does, but then again what doesn't irk to "sex work is work" crowd? For a people that say they are fun and all that, they're very irate and shouty most of the time.
#TheSpectator - I want you to know that I appreciate how Bindel PRESENTS her guests and asks them to explain who they are, and why they are notable, to us. - Thank you for this.
Never thought I'd hear a man describe the different stages of feminism so succinctly! Thanks Julie for the excellent work you do. Pala sounds like a very interesting person.
This is so important. Thank you for addressing it. It’s like all critical leftist analysis just falls out of men’s brains when it comes to women, drives me insane how inconsistent their morality is.
Really? This coming from a feminist I presume. Your myopic hypocrisy proceeds you, you treat men and boys as the enemy and then rebuke them for believing you. Porn is bad FOR MEN AND BOYS, they aren’t benefiting from what you erroneously call “male exploitation”. Glass houses lady…
🇨🇦 Canada here. Thank you for your show. I’m not a feminist, but life’s been a challenge. I try to be a responsible citizen, but have been a head in the sand kind of person. Bless this work. I believe poverty is a major contributor to women being prostitutes.
Definitely poverty is one of the biggest drivers. If the type of work women are most often employed in were compensated with better pay far fewer women would feel compelled to ever go into sex work.
I’ve been poor. I’ve had £30 per week for gas, electric and food. I’ve never once thought about prostitution. Neither has any woman I have known in my personal life. Nor gay man. So there is a type of woman who thinks “I’m a few bob short. I’ll get an evening job” and there’s a type of woman who thinks “I’m a few bob short. I’ll become a prostitute.” There are clearly different types of women, there are clearly different values, there are clearly different brains. Have sex for money or get more hours in a job. There are clearly differences in types of women.
Regarding your last question Julie, I believe the key to engaging young men is to foster an understanding of healthy masculinity in the 21st century. Without grasping this concept, it's difficult for them to comprehend feminism in our modern era.
@@Gingerblazehere's the thing self respect for guys comes easily if you get sex from a partner. So porn and prostitute is sort of like a cheat code. Especially with hook up culture if your friends are having it and you are not.
Men need to understand what masculinity is in the feminism ideology so that they can understand how to change themselves to be more appealing to the feminist idea of masculinity. Absolutely not lol
Julie I love your content! I’m dying for a longer form podcast. 2 hours plus to really dissect, dive deep, get more context, explore the arguments more than 30 min can afford
I am a big fan of Ms Bindel, who combines intellectual power with charm and humour to get her points across. However, this is the first interview I did not enjoy. It seemed to get lost, mainly due to the rather opaque responses of her interviewee.
It was too soft on reality and too soft on people who are doing terrible things. If someone is doing something terrible and morally reprehensible, they have to be stopped, not coddled.
Excellent conversation. There are very important points made here, e.g to reflect upon one’s own biases and patronizing attitudes and to keep communicating to generate a united movement to end patriarchy. If there is one thing patriarchy is successful in it is to split the opposition into small non threatening pieces which fight against each other. It works every time.
I think Friends normalised porn. Before a Friends episode where Chandler and Joey got free porn, it wasn’t really mainstream. After that episode, everyone was talking about how much porn they watched. People won’t believe you if you say you don’t watch it. I don’t understand why I would be turned on, watching other people have sex. That used to be called voyeurism. I never really thought about why sex work started to be used as a term to describe prostitution. It’s a very clever way of making it seem like the women have the control over the transaction. They don’t, really.
@Argeaux2 I remember agreeing with most of my radical feminist mums views, but thought she'd never win the porn argument. Now look at the state of us TWRW/ sexwork IS work/ rise of childporn... It's literally ruined society.
So the show is called 'Action Men' but what we should be concerned about is porn's apparent targeting of children and not oh, I don't know, it's effects on it's overwhelmingly male consumers?
Well, shockingly, a middle aged radical lesbian feminist, who has previously joked about putting all men "in camps", is not that in touch with the issues facing the 98% majority of heterosexual male and females growing up in this modern environment, OTOH, she is very good at finding people that can link imperialism and prostitution into the theories shes knows, based on a specific narrow life experience. I'm not saying there is nothing of value in the guests work, and I'm not saying that this discussion doesn't have valid views, there obviously is in both, but why is this particular host best qualified to talk about it?
The good cures for evil that he’s advocating are so difficult to achieve and to make work, that unfortunately this looks like a practically losing fight.
There is nothing wrong with hard work and success. If you think there is, you have a problem with most women and men who have existed throughout the world, throughout time.
This was a good episode. 19:33 is good in that he understands that approaching the sex industry from either extreme of oppression or free choice is wrong. There are many women in the sex industry who are not oppressed. I support the New Zealand model with the exit services of the Nordic Model. I think sex workers and abolitionists should work together. The problem is that abolitionists don't want to do this; they see sex worker organizations as the bad guys.
Yep, as an early 2nd wave feminist, patriarchy wasn't a word I heard much. That word has reached its crescendo with the third wavers. The fourth wavers believe in trans (M to F, and F to M) - how patriarchal is that? (Not). Back at the first wave, governments made up mostly of men gave women the vote. Silly men in retrospect (said with humour). They were so patriarchal they gave us the vote! The second wave, silly men in control, gave women equal salaries for equal work. They even invented the Pill and gave us more autonomy over our bodies. Hormones that totally disrupted our normal endocrine system. These inventors must have been secretly members of the patriarchy. And then the men sent us out to work, and told us raising and nuturing our own babies and children wasn't a valid choice, only careers were. How patriarchal is that? No, wait, wasn't that the matriarchy? The women's liberationists (I was one, lol, fell for the bait hook, line and sinker, lol). Hmm.. now I'm old, and nobody listens to elders unless they're indigenous (I'm Aussie), so what would an old woman whose survived 70 plus years know. Lol. So, good luck with finding a definition of patriarchy. Now corporate greed, capitalism and rampant consumerism, there's another story ..
As Pala says, you get them hooked young and you will have a customer for life. Children will grow into adults with jobs and money who will pay to exploit women sexually through porn, prostitution, OnlyFans etc.
You clearly didn't watch the video, or didn't understand. They target children with the free stuff to get them hooked for life, needing more and more extreme content as they become adults with disposable income.
They put it in those Roblox games. They make you download doddgy apps and the you get porn ads to click on. Had this experience with my oldest and youngest son. Banned that shit immediately.
Well done Julie. It is clear from the pushback in the comments section that this topic irks the “sex work is work” crowd.
Of course it does, but then again what doesn't irk to "sex work is work" crowd? For a people that say they are fun and all that, they're very irate and shouty most of the time.
#TheSpectator - I want you to know that I appreciate how Bindel PRESENTS her guests and asks them to explain who they are, and why they are notable, to us. - Thank you for this.
Never thought I'd hear a man describe the different stages of feminism so succinctly! Thanks Julie for the excellent work you do. Pala sounds like a very interesting person.
This is so important. Thank you for addressing it. It’s like all critical leftist analysis just falls out of men’s brains when it comes to women, drives me insane how inconsistent their morality is.
Really? This coming from a feminist I presume. Your myopic hypocrisy proceeds you, you treat men and boys as the enemy and then rebuke them for believing you. Porn is bad FOR MEN AND BOYS, they aren’t benefiting from what you erroneously call “male exploitation”. Glass houses lady…
🇨🇦 Canada here. Thank you for your show. I’m not a feminist, but life’s been a challenge.
I try to be a responsible citizen, but have been a head in the sand kind of person.
Bless this work.
I believe poverty is a major contributor to women being prostitutes.
Definitely poverty is one of the biggest drivers. If the type of work women are most often employed in were compensated with better pay far fewer women would feel compelled to ever go into sex work.
I’ve been poor. I’ve had £30 per week for gas, electric and food. I’ve never once thought about prostitution. Neither has any woman I have known in my personal life. Nor gay man.
So there is a type of woman who thinks “I’m a few bob short. I’ll get an evening job” and there’s a type of woman who thinks “I’m a few bob short. I’ll become a prostitute.”
There are clearly different types of women, there are clearly different values, there are clearly different brains. Have sex for money or get more hours in a job. There are clearly differences in types of women.
Ruining lives ! Porn kills the soul.
Well said!
Regarding your last question Julie, I believe the key to engaging young men is to foster an understanding of healthy masculinity in the 21st century. Without grasping this concept, it's difficult for them to comprehend feminism in our modern era.
"foster an understanding of healthy masculinity in the 21st century" - what exactly does that mean?
@@neonred7594 mostly fostering self respect and respect for others.
@@Gingerblazehere's the thing self respect for guys comes easily if you get sex from a partner. So porn and prostitute is sort of like a cheat code. Especially with hook up culture if your friends are having it and you are not.
Men need to understand what masculinity is in the feminism ideology so that they can understand how to change themselves to be more appealing to the feminist idea of masculinity. Absolutely not lol
There is a place for condemnatory. It works for some. Shame and blame is part of a many pronged approach.
Are you a Victorian time traveler? Clearly you haven’t learned their lesson.
I absolutely agree with this. I don't understand this soft approach which has never worked for anything ever.
@@neonred7594 Joining feminism is the list of things that have “never worked for anything ever”.
Julie I love your content! I’m dying for a longer form podcast. 2 hours plus to really dissect, dive deep, get more context, explore the arguments more than 30 min can afford
I am a big fan of Ms Bindel, who combines intellectual power with charm and humour to get her points across. However, this is the first interview I did not enjoy. It seemed to get lost, mainly due to the rather opaque responses of her interviewee.
It was too soft on reality and too soft on people who are doing terrible things. If someone is doing something terrible and morally reprehensible, they have to be stopped, not coddled.
I agree. The conversation didn't really go anywhere.
Excellent conversation. There are very important points made here, e.g to reflect upon one’s own biases and patronizing attitudes and to keep communicating to generate a united movement to end patriarchy. If there is one thing patriarchy is successful in it is to split the opposition into small non threatening pieces which fight against each other. It works every time.
Important conversation and excellent guest. Will look more into his work.
Great discussion. Thank you
Fantastic education. Thank you. ✊🏽
I think Friends normalised porn.
Before a Friends episode where Chandler and Joey got free porn, it wasn’t really mainstream.
After that episode, everyone was talking about how much porn they watched.
People won’t believe you if you say you don’t watch it.
I don’t understand why I would be turned on, watching other people have sex. That used to be called voyeurism.
I never really thought about why sex work started to be used as a term to describe prostitution.
It’s a very clever way of making it seem like the women have the control over the transaction.
They don’t, really.
@Argeaux2 I remember agreeing with most of my radical feminist mums views, but thought she'd never win the porn argument. Now look at the state of us TWRW/ sexwork IS work/ rise of childporn...
It's literally ruined society.
So the show is called 'Action Men' but what we should be concerned about is porn's apparent targeting of children and not oh, I don't know, it's effects on it's overwhelmingly male consumers?
It comes down to consent - children vs adults. There is a choice with men, albeit somewhat groomed.
Well, shockingly, a middle aged radical lesbian feminist, who has previously joked about putting all men "in camps", is not that in touch with the issues facing the 98% majority of heterosexual male and females growing up in this modern environment, OTOH, she is very good at finding people that can link imperialism and prostitution into the theories shes knows, based on a specific narrow life experience. I'm not saying there is nothing of value in the guests work, and I'm not saying that this discussion doesn't have valid views, there obviously is in both, but why is this particular host best qualified to talk about it?
It would be great to utilize educating about both.
The good cures for evil that he’s advocating are so difficult to achieve and to make work, that unfortunately this looks like a practically losing fight.
I completely agree. You've worded it far better than I could have.
Probably true but the Muslim grooming gangs are more dangerous with their tactics
Two amazing people ❤️
Correct your description - from Vanuatu - educated and coaches in New Zealand.
That’s what he said 🤷♂️.
@@johnnunn8688 he said he was born in Vanuatu but lived most of his life in New Zealand. Vanuatu is not in New Zealand.
The problem with men is that they will go after the top jobs. They will be focused, ruthless and ambitious.
It's not just ambition, it's psychopathy, narcissism and being power-hungry.
@@neonred7594 but why are they like this? What drives that?
There is nothing wrong with hard work and success. If you think there is, you have a problem with most women and men who have existed throughout the world, throughout time.
@@catherinehume9193 no one said that.
This was a good episode. 19:33 is good in that he understands that approaching the sex industry from either extreme of oppression or free choice is wrong. There are many women in the sex industry who are not oppressed. I support the New Zealand model with the exit services of the Nordic Model. I think sex workers and abolitionists should work together. The problem is that abolitionists don't want to do this; they see sex worker organizations as the bad guys.
Well this is stupid. Children seek out anything that Adults prohibit.
I watch porn all the time and I never once seen children in porn as a father of 4 children i would report it straight away to police
What stops a father of 4 from wanting to prevent even the possibility of cp?
men who watch porn all the time are not fit fathers, porn is abuse
Are your 4 children all boys?
This is about getting children to WATCH porn.
It’s about the porn companies offering free porn, to get the kids hooked on it. So when they start earning, they want to pay for better stuff.
Thanks for this excellent series Julie & Spectator and introducing me to Pala via this medium!
Define patriarchy.
Yep, as an early 2nd wave feminist, patriarchy wasn't a word I heard much. That word has reached its crescendo with the third wavers. The fourth wavers believe in trans (M to F, and F to M) - how patriarchal is that? (Not). Back at the first wave, governments made up mostly of men gave women the vote. Silly men in retrospect (said with humour). They were so patriarchal they gave us the vote! The second wave, silly men in control, gave women equal salaries for equal work. They even invented the Pill and gave us more autonomy over our bodies. Hormones that totally disrupted our normal endocrine system. These inventors must have been secretly members of the patriarchy. And then the men sent us out to work, and told us raising and nuturing our own babies and children wasn't a valid choice, only careers were. How patriarchal is that? No, wait, wasn't that the matriarchy? The women's liberationists (I was one, lol, fell for the bait hook, line and sinker, lol). Hmm.. now I'm old, and nobody listens to elders unless they're indigenous (I'm Aussie), so what would an old woman whose survived 70 plus years know. Lol. So, good luck with finding a definition of patriarchy. Now corporate greed, capitalism and rampant consumerism, there's another story ..
Porn industry seeks out people that can pay for services; which is not children
As Pala says, you get them hooked young and you will have a customer for life. Children will grow into adults with jobs and money who will pay to exploit women sexually through porn, prostitution, OnlyFans etc.
They get them hooked, (by offering free porn) so later on when they start earning…….
You clearly didn't watch the video, or didn't understand. They target children with the free stuff to get them hooked for life, needing more and more extreme content as they become adults with disposable income.
They put it in those Roblox games. They make you download doddgy apps and the you get porn ads to click on. Had this experience with my oldest and youngest son. Banned that shit immediately.