Lloyd Barnes, Christain Grace and David (Unbiased Magic Reviews)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 ต.ค. 2023
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Steve, thanks for the balanced view on all this. I came to magic late, in my 60’s. Well nearer to 70 actually. It was from finding Lloyd Barnes’ Sunday Service. Yes I subscribe to his patreon and have some of his releases including Dex. I am a bit of a collector really and just wanted to learn some magic to do for the grandkids and mates at the pub. Before buying (as a pensioner) I watch various review channels, your’s being one before I decide to buy a particular product. I’ll hold my hand up though and admit I bought Dex without any reviews. I come from the same mindset as yourself and see no benefit in being negative, left that behind in my youth🤣. Although I can still get rattled and bluster. Also as you say we all have bias whether we like to admit it or not. A mentor I had used to refer to the Zig Ziglar quote "When you throw dirt at people, you're not doing a thing but losing ground." I also try to remember… Whenever you point a finger at someone else's shortcomings, beware that the three fingers pointing back at your flaws are your own.
I must remember to go through your old videos. All the best.
It's nice to see a more mature angle on the situation. It's clear that many big egos are currently involved in the discourse of magic. A lot of elitism and lashing out trying to win arguments represents an immature side of the community. People can have negative opinions of things you love and vice versa. We shouldn't turn on people for being honest. It should be commended, even if we disagree with them. A bunch of hype and false praise only harms us in the long run. Ironic that this community of performers seems to struggle with communication and empathy. I feel similar to you when I see a lot of this drama happen. We need to not behave like children to create a genuine strong community that actually functions and flourishes.
Amazing. You are awesome. I really love Lloyd and Craig. I actually thought about this for a while, and figured that I really love you English magicians so much. Thanks for all your contributions.
This is an old-fashioned feud! Hatfields and McCoys. You can't stop it, can't even try. They have the blood lust in their eyes and their daddy's honor to defend!
Awesome Steve - thanks for this - I'm late to the party as always....love your reference to Flow, - so many great insights.
Very well put Steve, you articulated the issues and echoed my thoughts. I would also add that trust plays a part, I remember going to Ken Brooke’s magic studio and Ken saying give me £10 and he would give me a package and tell me to open it when I get home. I can honestly say I was always excited and never disappointed.
The problem with DEX is the hype not the item, it's an OK index, just OK, nothing amazing though, we were told it was revolutionary, it's not. We were told it's the the thinnest index ever (by quite a margin), it's not. We were told it's by far the fastest index ever, it's not. They also cover the fact it's likely to break in the dealer only video, something I don't recall seeing for any other magic release ever (many cover it in the actual tutorial, but this is the only time I've seen repairs mentioned in the dealer video), so they not only know it may break, but they expect it to. When you take all that into account, then also factor in how much they are asking for it, DEX doesn't seem like a good deal at all. Great shirt too by the way!
100% agree. My name is David and I approve this message
Yes!
Well, if it isn't the mainstream reviewer himself! 😂
Some great words to listen to! Thanks for the video Steve as always 👍
YOU'RE TEARING ME APART, LISA!! Great video. Well said. Thanks for explaining the Rohnke model. It makes so much sense. Subscribed.
Very well said. I think you hit the key--when reviewing you need to have a modicum of humility. You need to look for the good with the bad. In the end, though, a review is the judgement of a jury of one. I think all of us try to watch full performances to see if we like the effect and then watch a number of reviewers that we respect before we purchase. I think the system tends to self correct in the long run because of this.
Better channel than Doctor Negative
“Gentle on the person. Hard on the issue.“
This is what I love about you Steve. I clearly see you doing your very best to be a good human being above everything else. You work hard to be a kind and caring person before you worry about things like money and fame. I try to live in a similar way, and it’s really hard to do that particularly when other people are not being kind to you.
One of my favorite quotes is:
“Be Kind, for Most Everyone Is Fighting a Hard Battle.“ This is obviously a similar message to your quote above.
So thank you… For being you!
If everyone did their best to approach life this way, the world would be a far better place.
Blessings and Peace to You Sir.
Warmest wishes,
Paul Kruse
Arguably I really appreciate your thoughts and insights on this.
Very balanced and true. Well said. Completely agree with your thoughts here.
Social media in wrong hands can be dangerous. Great post Steve.
It's frustrating, isn't it? I mean, how can someone provide an honest and unbiased review if they haven't even tried the product?
I believe in the power of genuine experiences and opinions. When I'm looking for a review, I want to hear from someone who has actually used the product on some capacity, someone who can provide valuable insights and highlight both the pros and cons. It helps me make informed decisions before purchasing something.
I unsubscribed to that unbiased review channel was definitely the right move.
Well presented and accurate.Thanks.
Great points, well said. By the way love 'The Room' T-shirt :)
You're absolutely right, it always offers a little more fulfillment if we spend a little effort obtaining it. Cheers Steve
Keeping it really real. Great video.
Nice off the cuff perspective Steve. Thank you.
Thank you, Steve, for the well-measured analysis of the review landscape; like most industries, it comes with a full spread of maturity and motivation. The Jerx just wrote about this and shared that "I think the truth about magic products is that 10% are undeniably great, 10% are undeniably shit, and 80% are anywhere from bad to good depending on the performer’s abilities, performing environment, and goals." The majority of audiences likely don't have the determination to put in the work, both in the technical and the conceptual, to make a thoughtful purchase with the right intentions.
Hi Steve, greetings from West Virginia, USA. The state John Denver wrote Country Roads about.
This was an excellent and well thought out opinion peace. I'm glad you did give us your take on a controversial topic without negativity or bias.
Ima huge fan of Lloyd. I agree wholeheartedly that mistakes were made on both sides. I too watch the initial response and then the counter response.
Reviewers have to have confidence in their opinions. You guys create these things hoping to provide value through your advice.
I trust and value what you say. I appreciate your well thought out opinion today. I hope you have a great remainder of your week.
Huge respect to you Steve, thoroughly enjoying your tutorials and love he way you review magic😊
Hey, Thank you so much. Maccman!!
Hi Steve. I fined revews invaluable. Not only for the reviewers opinions but also there knowledge of magic, previous effects that are similar and the things to think about befor investing in a product. There are some reviewers that are better than others but isn't that the case for everything. Thank you for your work.
I appreciate you and your reviews.
Thank you for talking about, rationalizing the effects you review.
Best to you,
Tom Holbrook
Absolutely spot on this, Steve. Excellent and insightful contribution. Well worth us all heeding. 👍
Pointing out the flaws of a product is neither "negativity" nor is it merely a way to get clicks. In my view, it would just be part of an honest review - if there are flaws, call them out, if there aren't, don't make any up . Simple. Just pointing out the positives but not mentioning the flaws, is a way of lying too. And getting sent free stuff just logically makes you biased, as at the very least you don't want to risk your good relations with creators, as you(r channel) depends on getting sent stuff for free. With most TH-cam reviewers, that's just a well known inherent conflict of interest. Which is just common sense, which i know as a concept isn't as popular as it once was.
Pointing out the flaws is definitely what needs to be done. But focusing on the negative and searching for it, whilst not pointing out the positive is usually for clicks. Being as balanced as possible is important, and always what I try to do. As I’ve said, I don’t get sent anything with many flaws as individuals don’t tend to send trash. And companies only really send me quality items with the odd exception, which I’ve highlighted. Probably why hardly any companies send me stuff. Mostly individuals proud or their creations.
@@RealMagicReview Well, i'm glad you worded your response the way you did and i would agree. It's just that with reviewers in general (not just magic) you often hear "I don't want to focus on the negative" as a (at least to me really obvious) card blanche excuse/out to continue doing their biased reviews, and not having to risk their good relations with companies or creators that they get sent stuff from. So that's why at first i thought "Oh, one of those justifications again", glad you explained it a bit more in detail. Actual unbiased reviews are harder and harder to find these days, as most (professional) YT reviewers are sponsored in one way or another, be it being paid or getting sent stuff for free.
@@beatz04 Craig Petty, Steve Faulkner, and other reviewers do not receive review copies for free in the vast majority of cases, and even when they do, they still often give bad reviews. UMR's whole premise he uses to justify his channel is just false.
He writes heavily biased, negative reviews about the products he doesn't buy, supposedly to inform the public why he's not purchasing them. The premise of this behavior is utterly absurd. How can he claim to be unbiased about something he hasn't even bought? It's bewildering that he's surprised by the backlash he's receiving for what he did to Christian Grace.
What further infuriates me is his response regarding the emails. He begins by stating that he's never contacted Christian Grace in his life. Really? He couldn't even muster the decency to reach out to Christian and discuss his concerns about Enigma first? What kind of person does that?
Your honesty, integrity and the fact you don't go in for controversy and nastiness are the reasons I trust you over other reviewers. I agree completely about things being easy, I never learned anything easy that was really worth learning.
An interesting stream of consciousness. I'm not particularly taken with the hyping up of products, because it plays on the idea that if you don't get this whizz bangy all things to all people gimmick/product you're somehow missing out. If you set expectations sky high there is a fair chance it's going to disappoint since it doesn't live up to the hype. No magic trick for me imho is a must have/buy now! Anyway thank you for your thoughts. Nuanced and reflective as usual.
„Gentle on the person, hard on the issue“ I like that.
Well put
“Gentle on the person. Hard on the issue.” This is a good *direction*, but not practical when a person is guilty of hurting another person. Like you said, “jealousy, envy” could be behind something that results in lies or discrediting someone or some thing or business associated with that someone. This is what I believe happened here. I believe, because of the credibility of the community, most reviews are bent toward credit, not discredit. The support for each other is strong. It always has been. I run from the negativity. Those that involve themselves in the trashy talk isolate themselves all on their own.
Your review point: NEW effects are what they were commenting on regarding “purchase first, then review.” Not old effects. We really have no right to review something we didn’t participate, unwrap, learn, experience, perform. Otherwise, what exactly are we reviewing? The thought of experiencing? That’s just a reaction video. Not a review.
Final thought: trust others to be themselves. Once they show you, allow them to continue to be just who they are. No need to point out the shape of a square square.
A fan of both Kitson and Kermode? Such a man of good taste.
I haven't watched the whole video yet but I was wondering if it is for iOS or Android? Thanks Steve for your opinion and candid reviews!
What a great video Steve, I think you really nailed it.
I must admit that I get really fed up with all the negativity going around in the magic world at the moment.
I don't do magic reviews but when talking about any trick to another magician I say what is good about it then say why it is or isn't good for me personally. With Dex, I wont buy it at least not for quite a while as I cant see me using it with what I do. Enigma I would love but it is outside my price range (my pension wont stretch quite that far) so I won't be getting that. For me all magic I have to be first Objective and then personal about me and if it is right for me.
Hype marketing is a cancer. It might provide rapid growth, but most often it is through deception. Toxic positivity is no more valuable than toxic negativity.
Critique and negativity are not the same thing. Using the model you provided, a review without critique might provide Comfort to creators, but there cannot truly be Stretch for creators without sincere critique.
Wise words well said.
You are truly the KING of babble
Unbiased reminds me of the kind of doctor you don’t want to work for. I’ve worked for them before. Narcissist. Goes to the extreme of contacting people personally, then tries to make us all believe the opposite. The “wasn’t me!” defense. I do find the effort to unfire the arrow pretty amusing, but not funny, so it’s worthless.
amazing shirt and amazing movie lol
Feel like the magic community needs to start by not referring to literally every trick released as “diabolical” etc etc.
The hype is harmful because one loses all perspective, and so we can’t rediscover the nuance.
I wish we would all start ignoring the negative comments. Here is a good response, “while we disagree with ______, we respect his opinion.” You could also address the criticisms. We need to stop attacking people because of their opinions.
Please sum up your summation in a five minute video :)
Thanks Steve. I like your points very much.
bravo
Lloyd and David need to settle this with a naked cage match.
To the death to end future arguments.
To be fair, the 70's & 80's did produce some fantastic Horror films though 👻
what pisses me of re DEX is i paid £70 for it... then Lloyd gave away the bulk of what we paid for for free ... the password to all the tutorials .. when i tried Dex I found I could not pull a card out with it in my hands so no way could i pull a card out from my pocket. Lloyd brings out some fantastic stuff.. but asking for that much .. then give it away for free ....why? doubt I can get a refund for that...
This is why Steve is one of the best.
Ooh! A bit of a raucous in the magic community. Call me a voyeur but I'm fascinated by it in the most curtain twitching sort of ways.
Also, I'm really pleased with my MiniBook Pro. Bewilderment has been the most often response.
I like your system of being light on the person.
If you’re reviewing products you’ve never seen there is a problem.
If you expose a gimmick that was just released that is a problem .
Even being light on the person I can say “Fuck that guy”
Some of us are just plain sick and tired of the hype. There is a seeming magic creator "mafia" of a few popular personalities that like to over hype and over promote everything they create (cross hyping for each other) and if anyone has a divergent opinion they get butt hurt fast and attack. It happens on Magic Cafe as well. These types (Lloyd, Javier, Petty) seem to have a release playbook of hyp and ridiculous claims (e.g. Best Trick of the Decade!). Critical reviews have nothing to do with "jealousy". I am a consumer, not a creator. I can’t stand the "snake oil" or "carnival salesman" approach. It is fake and disingenuous. Additionally, and perhaps most damming, this hype often contains exaggeration, if not plain lies. Negativity in reviews should be embraced, concise and emotionless. It is called a critique and is necessary. And yes, getting things free is straight out of the gate a no-no to having an honest review. That doesn’t mean you aren’t a generally honest person but the gift is going to impact you subconsciously at the least. That is why there are strict rules on gifting in the corporate world as well as government contracts. Would you think your representative was making fair decisions on nicotine laws if Philip Morris was giving your rep free trips to the Caribbean and tickets to the Superbowl. Yes those gifts are much much grander than a $50 trick but the same philosophical idea is present. If you are friends with a creator or receive a trick to review for free, you should disclose this as it is an instant bias that should be understood. Yes there are other biases but those 2 are two of the most impactful on the true integrity and honesty of a review. Don’t conflate the fact that we all have internal bias with those specific biases. If you want a respected review channel, be open and clear about any possible bias up front. As a consumer I want to know if it is worth buying and ONLY an honest review can help guide that, which means the postive AND the negative.
kirk4960 --- I think you are so correct about this. The supposed righteous indignation about negative reviews is only a misdirection for an intentional marketing tactic: create a feud. It is not a coincidence that every time certain creators release an effect a huge drama is suddenly fueled. Why? Because doing so gets their loyalists fired up --- that, in turn, results in amplified visibility on social media --- that, in turn, creates profitable sales. It's basically the model of professional wrestling promotion brought to magic. It is also disgusting.
Best, most straightforward thing I've heard on this anywhere.
He writes heavily biased, negative reviews about the products he doesn't buy, supposedly to inform the public why he's not purchasing them. The premise of this behavior is utterly absurd. How can he claim to be unbiased about something he hasn't even bought? It's bewildering that he's surprised by the backlash he's receiving for what he did to Christian Grace.
What further infuriates me is his response regarding the emails. He begins by stating that he's never contacted Christian Grace in his life. Really? He couldn't even muster the decency to reach out to Christian and discuss his concerns about Enigma first? What kind of person does that?
Perhaps the emails did not come from him (he claims that they did not and we all know how easy it is to look like an email is coming from someone who it is not (e.g. all the Spam and fishing emails we receive every day)? Have you considered that they may have been sent from a person posing as him that does not like him? Given his ability and willingness to be honest and provide a negative review, I would think that he likely has many enemies in the creator community. He also stated clearly why he would not buy Enigma and that he was well versed in the effect as a friend had purchased it and shared the details with him. I don't see any issue with that review or his take on the product (Enigma). That said, I do not always agree with his reviews and he does sometimes come off as a bit "confident". But, I do appreciate his candor and his right to voice that opinion, and he does so intelligently and succinctly. @@RDGTEX
Very fair and balanced, and needed.
One of the problems is that it’s human nature to have an appetite for drama. Often that urge is confused with genuine malice and, in so doing, often ends in genuine malice.
You’d think that magicians, of all people, would have better and more fun things to do when they feel the creep of boredom. I mean, how many of you can really call that pass ‘perfect’?
I rather like Loyd Barnes… So I guess I’m not “unbiased.“ I watched his entire video… albeit it an accelerated speed.
I don’t buy much new magic these days. I’m content with my repertoire and have plenty of undeveloped material that needs attention. I do enjoy Brent Braun’s unboxing videos at his J&B Magic site. I respect Steve Faulkner‘s reviews. He’s a working pro and eminently qualified to make appropriate discernments. The irascible Jamy Ian Swiss does not suffer fools and has a keen eye for quality.
David, the unbiased reviewer, bless his heart, is a medical professional with the disposable income to buy any trick he’s interested in. Watching snippets of his performances, I can confidently say he is not a working pro, but an amateur who has put in a fair amount of practice and not so much performance time. For me, his opinions and flippant attitude have very little value.
Brent, Steve and Jamy are working pros. They, along with the folks who review for Geni, have been in the trenches. David is a hobbyist, and that’s wonderful, but he’s simply not a reliable authority or capable critic. His “buy it today, review it tonight” approach doesn’t hold water… It’s a disservice to hobbyists and beginners who stumble onto his reviews.
There are doctors and lawyers and Indian chiefs who are fantastic creators and performers… real pros. David is not. I was unaware of his existence until this Dex controversy… I would’ve liked to have kept it that way. So I’ll choose to ignore his advice, just as I’ll never ask if he‘d let me remove his appendix.
Dave from unbiased review is one of the honest ones to me, I've not seen his review of Dex yet but he's a good reviewer and there's so much over hyped magic released he's needed, he's seems a good magician to me. I've purchased so much over rated magic and also some incredibly good stuff, a lot of the over rated have been from well known magicians. David his a good reviewer to me
@@markjones5843 David is a malicious liar who can't do magic and therefore slams every product that comes out due to his overwhelming jealousy and hatred towards actual magicians.
Something i see missed in reviews and why sometimes creators get offended is that magic is so situational.
If you are a hobbyist you may be restricted on your performance in a different way than a professional. I have to looo at everything through a much stricter filter as anything i do has to work standingz surrounded and without much setup as those are my criteria as an occasional performer.
In thst vein something that a pro loves may be terrible for me and that's why i think its important to give context and constructive criticism. One mana trash is another man's treasure.
My only comments on the dex situation is that both sides have either been vindictive or twisted the truth to fit their narrative which means i cant side with either amd instead focus on the products. Dex isnt for me enigma might be.
I watched Unbiased magic reviews, Fiddling Johnny and Craig and Ryland as well as yourself. And I believe all of you give your honest opinions. I have seen 3 reviews that were less than glowing about Dex and I am sure these were not caused by jealousy. In none of these reviews was the product destroyed, binned or subjected to a TH-cam video ridiculing it for humour, all things that are regularly done by Craig Petty, the undisputed king of negative reviews.
This reviewers reviewing other reviewers is ridiculous and you should learn to respect other people's opinions.
These young kids always have something to say in response
IMO you should review for your audience. They pay their hard earned money. How come creators can attack reviewers for stating their honest opinion.
It’s honorable that you have such good values! A real shame that someone like David puts out videos just for the clicks and controversy
Let’s be honest too that the whole idea of any ‘unbiased’ review is ridiculous by its nature. We all have our biases and it’s dangerous to pretend otherwise.
I agree but to be fair he does explain that he is unbiased by not having review copies provided for free.
His channel is his opinion just not tainted by having given a free review copy.
We fall into a binary problem thinking of bias as a 100% state. Unbias is not the opposite of bias it is distance we travel, for lack of a better word, from a pure state. If we are honest we uses our bias to inform the shape of an accurate unbiased opinion. I think the name of his podcast is a statement of comment.
Double-speak and mincing words typically manage to persuade one half of the audience while simultaneously alienating the other half. This is merely the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the negative reviews posted on the Unbiased Magic Reviews channel, not to mention the snide and passive-aggressive comments I've observed. I don't have a personal stake in this matter, but I'm providing my honest assessment based on what I've witnessed.
@@UncleSkiBumAlmost nobody gets free review copies, so this is kind of a nonsense point.
@@Bringadinguswrong
In today's age company invests heck a lot of money in hyping the product. In this case product was bad, reviewer didn't like it, sales hurt, egos were hurt..huge drama on TH-cam by creator. Having bad opinion is like worst thing for production companies. Friends pitch for friends n if you have big names,u have better voice. Sad that creator took it too personaly.