@@arkangelgodsent2490 lol if you disagree just say that😭. The only debatable thing in the whole video is sanjis current durability and AP since we can’t compare it to zoro.
One of the best breakdowns I’ve seen. I always thought it was pretty lazy for people to say “King turned off his flames because he was dumb” in order to downplay what KOH was doing to him. King realized that his flames on wouldn’t help so he resorted to his speed. Zoro was able to react and still tag him so he resorted to flying at a distance (his final attack). But Zoro was able to adapt to that as well in the end.
@@unknownplayer7667 Because he cannot continuously tank Zoro's attacks despite having it on. It would be more beneficial to not get hit at all. Sure, it would mitigate some damage but a lot of chip damage would eventually just break through his defenses. Meanwhile what he did instead was to keep it off so he gets maximum speed, kept his distance, and spammed long range attacks. It was a really smart move on his part but Zoro is a minority hunter and Alber is the sole survivor of his race.
I haven't even finished the video and I have to commend you for explaining why King changed his strategy vs Zoro once KOH got introduced. People are too intellectual lazy to proper analyze the fight so they just classified King's decision to create distance and keep his flames off as "dumb". It's quite ironic. Let's finish the video.
Let's not forget that Zoro was only able to break part of King's mask while his flame was off when he was attacked with Tiger Hunt. It wasn't until Zoro got acoc that he was able to actually make King bleed which he wasn't able to do before even though his flame was off.
yh King flame off was only lossing cople drops of blood from a straight on koh ultra tiger hunt wich scale above the rooftop attacks that hurt kaido beside ashura maybe. and Sanji didnt even shwoed AP feats above Rooftop enma attacks wich didnt even leaved a singel scratch on King.
@@gsphil414 im talking about his first KoH Santoryu Ultra Tiger Hunt. King blocked it in flame off after getting overpowerd he was only lousing a couple drops of blood.
@@Kronzo_Z no that’s not ultra tiger hunt . King blocks it in flames on then when he goes to use flames off zoro cuts him but that’s not ultra tiger hunt and it isn’t one of those moments when they clash and one person overpowers and does damage . Ultra tiger hunt is an attack that down with all three swords but after zoro cuts him two swords are to zoros left while the sword in his mouth is up to the left. Zoro doesn’t have the time to charge up a hole named attack in the time king turns his flames off in that specific moment and zoro would of said the attack if he did it twice . It’s a regular acoc zoro swing with all three swords .
@@gsphil414 xD watch 1062 again bro. IK it was not in the manga that Zoro sayed the name of the attack that he landed there but we see even in the manga how King gets hit in flame off by Zoro and like said only was bleeding little from it.
My only issue with this is… why did Zoro say it’s useless to attack the seraphim when their flames are on during egghead? He told it to Luffy too. These means he doesn’t have full confidence they can injure them even with Acoc.
Good question and it definitely seems strange but there can be a good reason for it. Zoro is speaking in a general sense as even if he knows he can damage the Seraphim with ACoC, he probably doesn’t expect Lucci and Kaku to also have that power. In the case of Luffy it’s not like he’s actually seen Luffy’s power post rooftop battle and even if he knows Luffy can use acoco it wouldn’t apply to Lucci and Kaku as I said already. Either way King clearly felt threatened by acoc attacks that he changed his whole method of fighting Zoro.
Damaging queen ain’t impressive at all even chopper without haki could do it while zoro with adv armament couldn’t and was barely damaging flames off king with adv arm Sanji can’t damage flames off or on king stop your delusion
1. It’s possible Zoro is able to damage king in his flame on mode but I think you should point out that we have never seen that. It’s kind of implied but it’s also implied that a big part of zoro being able to beat king had to do with his knowledge of how his ability worked. Even after he unlocked ACOC he still waited for the flame to go off and logically If he was able to still keep fighting after taking ACOC with no flame adding the flame should functionally give him more protection. And from his convo on egghead he still seems to consider flame on king to be basically invulnerable. 2. Sanji actually did damage the seraphim with the flame on. You can see damage marks on its chin their first encounter after sanji attacked it with a non germa form diable jamb. That’s pretty telling. Doesn’t confirm anything but we haven’t seen the upper limit of sanji’s infrit jamb and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say it would do major damage to a flame off king seeing what it did to queen who is a cybernetic ancient zoan. Obviously king with the flame on is a different story but I don’t believe king would be able to just stay in his flame on mode anyway.
As kid mentioned, even water can eventually carve stone. I don’t really see any of kings lesser attacks damaging sanji with his exoskeleton let alone his speed, and if they do he can easily regenerate or even shatter kings blade on his body if he actually uses ararment, which he didn’t when queens blade shattered. If sanji doesn’t immediately use his more stamina draining techniques and fights smart, king will get frustrated with his inability to hit/do any lasting damage to sanji and he will either A, turn flames off to try to tag sanji. (Queen using at least light speed germa attacks > flames on king in terms of speed) or B, use his ultimate move and make himself vulnerable. In both of these scenarios sanji will be smart enough to use his ifrit Jamie + vanishing speed to blitz and strike king for massive damage, possibly fight ending if he uses the same buef burst combo he did against queen, who’s also insanely tough. There’s an argument that he’s tougher then kings base form. King hasn’t shown any major BIQ feats in the series to see this coming while sanji has proven to be one of the smartest fighters in the series. This would only really work if sanji is smart enough to employ this strategy, which I would argue he is, but if he didn’t do this then he basically has no way to win. But there’s definitely a good chance he can win.
I keep seeing people perpetuate the myth that Sanji has some superhuman Regen. It's been literally explicitly shown in WCI that Germa exoskeleton is malleable and can be formed back into proper shape, it's not Regen. I can't believe people now tout Sanji as some durable character when every attack other than the sword swing from Queen hurt him. Every attack landed from King will hurt Sanji. And using the same logic with Sanji, Queen's blade also didn't use armament. You're acting as if King wasn't clashing swords with Zoro. No, King in his slow form is faster than Queen in any form. Also, kind of redundant to specify that Queen was using light speed Germa attacks when his go-to attack is rapid-fire lasers, it literally doesn't mean anything to his speed. Speedwise, Sanji is heavily wanked. People put him among the fastest people in the verse because he went FTE to Queen, then they scale Queen to Marco, then Marco to Kizaru. Except Kizaru was obviously toying with Marco, and Queen wasn't capable of reacting fast enough to even defend against Marco who was mostly focused on keeping him occupied. Meanwhile, Marco let King hit him to hit King back, even when King was in his slow form. But we're all supposed to believe that Sanji when in his Germa mode can blitz King, in his faster form, when using IJ, which was also explicitly stated by Oda to require Sanji a wide space to run around and accelerate to a high enough speed to even reach that, and remain unharmed by King's magma flames, and also do enough damage in the short duration he can actually use IJ, against King, who took multiple attacks from Zoro with aCoC that were at least comparable to the attack Zoro used to scar Kaido if not stronger, in his less durable form.
@@CrimsonDRagon-bi9ce w take brother. However I personally disagree with a few thing. 1. queen literally said the germa kids have abnormal regeneration. They have it. I don't think is as potent and constant as Marco's for example, but don't pretend it was never stated when it's literally written in the Manga that they do have regeneration. 2. Sanji didn't use armament when he shattered queen's hakiless sword attack, so there's no evidence that a haki sword attack from king would damage sanji's exo+armament defense. On top of that, king is not a swordsman so we could even argue he lacks the "cutting" expertise people like zoro, kinemon, oden have. 3. Oda himself stated in sbs 103 that sanji obtain the power to dissappear (which is how invisibility is called whether if it's from Germa science or the clear clear fruit) but it comes from speed. Is understandable why people would think (and rightfully so imo) that sanji scales among the fastest characters in op. Thing is, perception blitzing queen does not tell us the actual speed limit sanji has. So to use queen to downplay sanji's speed doesn't make sense to me. The fact that both king and sanji can go "invisible" only means they might share the same amount of minimum level required. Not the same limit. 4. All kings attacks are fire based, and sanji is already the most fire resistant in the crew after luffy without the exo. With the exo (which by the way, Is a passive defense) he is even more, so we don't know how much damage sanji would really receive, specially since sanji would be using armament to block (on top of his exo that is always active since is passive). On the other hand, king's also fire resistant at the very least so we don't know how much damage sanji would be able to do to him. If sanji wins, it'd be a near death experience imo. I give king the upper hand becuase so far sanji has no way to potentially bypass flame on defense.
@@svz1345 1. Which chapter? 2. The evidence is that King went toe to toe with Zoro who could cut Kaido, unless the argument is that Sanji is physically more durable than Dragon Kaido, in which case I'll reflect the argument back and because there's no evidence that Sanji can take sword attacks equal to other sword attacks that could cut Kaido. 3. Yes, Sanji gained the speed to disappear from the vision of Queen. My argument is that that feat doesn't even put him in the top 10 of the fastest characters in the verse. Imu, 5 Elders, Admirals both pre and postTS, Luffy, Shanks, and Mihawk are all at least a tier above him in speed. What tells us about his limit is that he couldn't go FTE to Queen in normal combat, he's explicitly stated that he needs a wide area to run around to reach that speed, and he also didn't blitz Queen casually like Marco did. 4. Physical fire resistance doesn't tell much since Zoro, Luffy and Jinbe have better armament than he does, Luffy can just extend the distance of his body to any fire with his advanced armament, Zoro can literally cut fire, and Jinbe can control water. It's also irrelevant since how good Sanji's fire resistance relative to the crew doesn't actually say anything about how he'd deal with magma fire.
@@CrimsonDRagon-bi9ce 1. Chapter 1029, right after sanji awekens his germa powers. 2. That's no evidence at all. That's like saying vista can go toe toe toe with shanks because he briefly clashed with mihawk. Swords of good quality in one piece normally don't break. Vista's sword never did and he was clashing with the strongest sword (that happens to be a black blade), does that mean Vista's haki and cutting abilities = mihawk's?? Zoro was able to directly clash swords with ryuma's black blade and his swords didn't break dispite zoro not using armament coating. Zoro was able to block a combine coc attack from two yonko with his three armament coated swords, and they did not shattered, does that mean zoro's ap = conquest of the sea?? You're saying it as if king directly countered zoro's named attack with his own swordsmanship which is not true. He was either blocking or tanking zoro's named attacks with his body+flame on (when zoro used dragon twister, or tiger hunter, king used his animal wings but the flames were on so his lunarian durability was doing most of the job), or completely evading zoro's named attacks. King was directly clashing with zoro's regular swordplay, not his named attacks. The moment one of zoro's named attacks made contact with king's sword, his sword literally broke. So your "evidence" is not any evidence at all, neither is your counter argument because nothing suggest king has attacks that can cut kaido since clashing swords with zoro don't prove that. 3. Your point is very subjective. Not saying it is impossible, but extremely subjective. For shanks and mihawk, it is possible but for the admirals, the 5 elders and imu?? Not at all until we see concrete feats, and even then it would still be debatable because by the time we see them in action sanji will be stronger and faster than he currently hmis anyways. I can name you 3 yonkos who sanji is faster than right now and the only Admiral we could confirm to be currently is kizaru. So sanji can very well be among the top 10 fastest characters in op as of now already. Specially considering the how much emphasis Oda puts on his speed. Nobody can go that fast in normal combat. Everybody needs something. Zoro cannot blitz unless he uses a specific technique, luffy can be tagged in g2 so g4 snakeman is what he needs, and that only makes his arms move that fast not his whole body. Sanji's limit is more stamina wise than actual speed specifically. And sanji does not need a wide area. Sanji's explosive speed can already make him dissappear instantly soru style, we've seen that already . Sanji didn't start running and then became invisible the more distant he covered. He literally just vanished on site, same way zoro does when he uses lion song. 4. The context of a fight against someone like king, yes it does matter and it tells a lot. You're saying it as if zoro luffy and jimbe use armament defensively the same way sanji's exo covers his whole body, when they literally never fight like that. Zoro has never used armament defensively until he was forced to because his swords would've not protected him from that explosion. They have to be aware of it all the time, what if they are caught off guard then?? My point is, high heat tolerance + the extra layer of exo protection is sanji's way to deal with king's fire abilities and mitigate the potential damage he might get even if he is caught off guard, specially since those are passive defense abilities for sanji. Luffy was blasted twice with Boro breath, the first time zoro protected him, but the second time? I don't remember him extending his adv armament haki the way you say he would, he straight up tanked that blast cause he barely had time to react (g5 might be the only time where his coc might have passively protected him, but it didn't seem like it). It's also relevant because his armament+exo allowed to withstand ifrit jambe (stated by himself, I can withstand even hotter flames), which in temperature, scales higher than any flame attack king has except the magma fire. And don't use the "we don't know if king's flames have higher temperature than sanji" cause based on writting we know they don't. The only times it's been implied flames were extremely hot in the story has been essentially in wano, with kaido's flaming Bagua, kings final attack and sanji's ifrit, and all thesd three had special visual designs to highlight that. Any other flame we've seen so far (except Marco's and akainu magma ) scale lower than those three temperature wise But again, we could go forever and we would both be just speculating for the most part. The only thing we know for a fact is that sanji cannot damage king in flame on. Everything else, I think is up for interpretation. Good chat brother 😁
Hey Zage, I see your points BUT I'm going to have to disagree. Here's my reasoning: For starters, Sanji did end up leaving scratches on S-Shark with its flames on. And remember, this was with diable jambe. With ifrit, Sanji went from slightly damaging queen to straight up one-shotting him with a string of rapid attacks so it's clear ifrit boosts AP by a tonne. I very much can see Sanji doing damage to Lunarians with flames on. Next, point: could King even damage Sanji? I mean, a hybrid Queen - who's physical strength should be above King's due to his much larger stature which in one piece typically reflects on strength - couldn't even leave a scratch on Sanji after a full 2 handed overhead swing. Both Sanji's endurance and durability are above Zoro's as he stands up with half of his bones and internal organs FLATTENED and simply says "it hurts a bit". Even if King does end up getting past Sanji's durability, he will easily regenerate it. Another thing you mentioned was Sanji's speed: Sanji's base speed > King's flame off speed. This shouldn't even be a question. Sure, Sanji got caught off-guard by Queen a couple times, but you're ignoring that he was dodging countless laser beams throughout the fight. Zoro was struggling against the speed of Imperial Deep Pride Stake and even compared it to a laser beam. Meanwhile, a pre-Germa awakening Sanji was dancing around Queen's arguably quicker attacks with ease. Considering that Sanji's speed is way above Zoro's, and Zoro was able to perceive, clash and even hit a flame off King, I have base Sanji being faster than King. This isn't even mentioning Sanji's awakening, diable or ifrit as all three have both been stated to increase his speed. Sanji will not need his 'vanish mode' to outspeed King. Also, you mentioned that King only turned his flames off when Zoro's attacks started hurting him through his durability. This is not true, he also turned them off back when they were fighting indoors. At this point, Zoro had not landed a single significant attack on king so he clearly turned them off for the speed advantage. Since Sanji is considerably faster than Zoro, King will 100% turn his flames off. Sanji, with a battle IQ higher than Zoro's, would very quickly pick up on King trading durability for speed and realise that this is his chance to beat him. A vanishing speed-blitz into an ifrit combo would be more than enough to finish King.
Not all laser beams within the show move at the same speed; So I don’t see why you would use this as a benchmark for their speed. For example luffy in base form managed to effortlessly dodge laser beams in the beginning and currently zoro and sanji outspeed this may version of luffy by a lot; they eventually just out right power cliff that version. So literally you shouldn’t have taken that statement too literally. And apart of your message is a huge pre supposition on your part. You can argue that sanji is faster but you are making it seem like it’s a huge difference, like a very huge difference. And the last part, I don’t think he only traded his dura for speed because he was being hurt but at some point he decided not to block even with his durability high due to how strong zoros attacks were.
@@ExctacyMusicwhy wouldn't he be able to, it's never stated that king or queen have particularly good observation haki and sanji perception blitzed queen so it's a fair statement
Every fight against a first commander is an unfair one. Each one has some way to just completely avoid any and all damage if you don't meet a certain threshold. Against King, if you don't have Conqueror's Coating level AP, you can't damage him. Against Katakuri, if you don't have Future Sight level speed, you can't damage him. Against Marco, if you don't have Mythical Zoan level endurance, all your damage gets outhealed. This is why the first commanders are such a threat, they're not only incredibly strong, but for nearly every character they are just impossible to beat. They're the wall that separates the top tier characters from the rest. I'm wondering if this trend will continue with Shiryu and Benn Beckman.
Oda would always go with this system , if luffy fights the strongest , zoro would fight the second and sanji would always fight the third strongest , when the strawhats fight blackbeard pirates later on , luffy would fighting blackbeard(not just because he's the strongest but also luffy would beat him due to personal matters) , then zoro would fight shiryu(perfectly fits for zoro since shiryu was also a swordsman with invisibility ability , good for zoro to get advanced observation haki and also a perfect opportunity to master his armament haki) , and then sanji would fight either burgess or lafitte.
@@compDict19 I think this prediction might end up being wrong in the specific case of the Blackbeard pirates because we’ve seen sanji show a lot of interest in the clear clear fruit before and this could be an interesting moment for him to face off against the one devil fruit he wants. It doesn’t always have to be as simple as zoro fights the sword guy.
I completely misjudged your channel tbh, I strongly assumed that you were a Zoro downplayer but after seeing your other scaling videos I have to honestly say that they are very good and make a lot of sense scaling wise. I also think that King is just a bad matchup for Sanji and fire based attacks have no effect at all on King i assume even in flame OFF, which in turn is actually Sanji's strongest ability.
The janbe's aren't just fire on his kicks they also increase the speed of the kicks as stated by sanji during enis lobby when he first used diamble janbe and speed is weight aka attack power
@@supershenron9168 yes it increased his speed also, but his flames are still useless against the wildfire no matter how hot they burn. Young falme OFF King was chained in ranging fire without problems. weight is no probelm for flame on Lunarians look at the child seraphim they are eating a combined attack from hybrid lucci and luffy bounce man without problems.
@@Kronzo_Z sanji is faster than zoro, so he’s going to force king to turn of his flames faster, sanji is smarter than zoro so he’s going to figure out the trick with his flames earlier, sanji can deal with king flying, sanji also has better observation haki than zoro so he can deal with any of his attacks not to mention sanji has some fire resistance, and saying you need acoc to hurt king is some extreme glazing considering how zoro destroyed him once he turned his flames off, besides sanji definitely has enough ap to deal with him considering how he mid diffed queen who has been stated multiple times that they’re relative with king having an edge even if king with his flames on has as much durability as kaido that isn’t a problem considering how sanji is so much faster than him that he can press him into turning off his flames
I agree. King would get the better of Sanji. BUt Sanji will always be my favorite character in the Strawhat Crew, cuz when it comes to Anime/Manga, its not about who the strongest is that matters, what really matters is the character's story. STORY IS KING, and Sanji's back story is probably my favorits among the Straw Hat crew and second best to Nami's when it comes to how well it is written.
@@muhammed-yusuf959 the fight would go like this Sanji would use his vanishing speed king realisez he can't tag sanji than king will turn on his flames sanji can't do shit even with ifrit they will go back and forth sanji falls 9n the ground king wins
You summed up my opinion on this matchup. I have Sanji one spot beneath King on my list. As you said, there is no proof of Sanjis AP being enough, and we still don't know the details about Sanjis regen. Sure, he can easily heal from a Queen sword strike, but does that mean he could heal that quickly if King (who is on a completely different level to Queen) hits him with a big attack. Does Sanjis regen take more stamina from him if the attack he gets hit by is much stronger, so it takes a lot more of his stamina to heal his body? These are things we still have to see.
Kings not that far above queen. Let's be real here they are both implied and stated to be similar in power like how queen said if king didn't have his lunarian DNA aka his flames on mode he'd be no stronger than queen himself or how neither of them correct the other for not calling the superior of the two big bro like jack calls them both or there bounty's being similar or them being Zoro and sanji's opponents(since Zoro and sanji's opponents have always been extremely close in power just look at jabra and kaku for an example of this)etc
@@supershenron9168 Flames off King was throwing post-rooftop healed Zoro around like a ragdoll. Zoro couldn't do anything until ACoc. And that pre-ACoc Zoro just did all the crazy stuff on the rooftop against the Yonko. Rooftop Zoro murders Queen and King made him look like a baby. King is very clearly stated to be Kaido's strongest subordinate in SBS and such. Queen literally does nothing to King. If King is flames on, then he just stands there. If King is flames off he blitzes the fuck out of Queen, since he was fast enough to disappear in front of Zoro.
@@nikjovan4816queen is repeatedly stated, implied and shown to be relative in power to king for example queens literal statement that if it wasn't for kings lunarian DNA aka his flames on mode he'd be no stronger than queen himself or their bounty's being similar or them literally being Zoro and sanji's opponents(literally since enis lobby the trend is Zoro gets the slightly stronger guy and sanji gets the slightly weaker guy that is a fact wether you like it or not) or them not correcting each other on not calling the superior of the two big bro like jack does because he's weaker than them.
In chapter 1027 King turn off his flames tho eventhough Zoro isn't using king of hell yet. I don't think King will keep his flame on even Sanji has no way of damaging it which leaves King more vulnerable. But since he could still endure 1 sword style Acoc just fine, I think only Ifrit Jambe can deal significant damage. The rest of Sanji's kicks are just too weak whether King is in flame on or off mode. I agree King still wins anyway.
The moments King turned off his flame vs pre KOH Zoro was either when they had a clash off attacks like in 1027 which you mentioned or the instances Enma was fighting against Zoro so King basically had the advantage in those instances because Zoro couldn’t focus on King properly. Obviously different opponents would be handled differently but it’s been consistent for King to rely on his flame on defence until it stops working.
King will definitely wouldn't turn his flames-off once he realizes that Sanji wrecks him in the speed category. Again, no evidence Sanji might force King to NOT rely on his Flames-on state. Even against S-Shark, Sanji was overpowering the seraphim but kept getting back anyway until the bubble gun.
Trying to play King off as not someone with -50IQ is baffling to me. King turning off his flames is just 1 of like 5 horrible BIQ moments he had during Wano. Lemme explain both why King's IQ is -50 but also why King turning off his flames is guaranteed to happen. Zoro legit says "I dont have much time" out loud. At one point King the idiot was even watching over him just standing there as Enma drains him *multiple times.* So not only did King the idiot see it happen once, he saw it happen back to back and frequently at that. Anyone with an IQ above 10 would realize "oh, my opponent has a massive time limit on him, maybe i should use the form that makes me last considerably longer" or "My opponent has these massive timeframes where hes just unable to fight every couple minutes....maybe i should wait for that". King defenders wanna argue "oh but KOH mode Zoro would've dealt damage anyways! Look at this implication!" Which fails to note that even if KOH Zoro could theoretically damage flames on King it would still make him tank way more damage which works towards his win conditions. It doesn't matter that he gets injured, the fact is that he needs to stall for time and he *should* know this because Zoro not only said it out loud but King the idiot literally watched it happen infront of his own eyes *multiple* times. Pair that alongside him blocking and the fact that Flames on King's speed was already shown to be on the level of Zoro, flames on King would've lasted for an extremely long amount of time and even if he wouldn't, he would atleast easily outlast KOH mode. And this isn't even going into the fact that King wasn't scared of KOH because he just knew it'd damage him. He was scared because Kaido, the guy who he worships and believes to be #1 strongest is a adv conq haki user. King just witnessed Zoro unlock an ability that his captain who King worships uses and he believes to be stronger than anyone else...that hes Joyboy. Anyone under that situation would be fearful even if it damaged him or not. Not every single detail has to do with powerscaling. Pair that alongside Zoro stating in egghead that they're immune with their flames on even after unlocking KOH and its pretty clear to see the truth of the situation. Anyways, King the idiot decides to attempt to end the fight quickly, the *exact* thing Zoro wants. King gets slashed once and takes massive damage, but hey its fine, King should *now* realize that maybe this just isn't the play, its already cost his a ton of health.....nope round 2, King the idiot tries blitzing Zoro, fails and gets cut once again taking massive damage. Now again any person above an IQ of 10 with even the smallest will to live would've thought "wow this really isn't working out and im about to die and even blitzing him, the entire point of why i went into this mode just isn't working... Maybe i should swap modes". But again, King is not right in the head and attempts a third time. And like literally 99% of people would've saw coming, he gets slashed and goes down.....🤦♂. King had the most free win in existence and just threw it away. What's even more baffling is how you just think King just.....wouldn't turn off his flames....? You do realize King has turned off his flames for the literal most random nonsensical reasons in the past right? One time he turned his flames to literally just walk up to Zoro, not run, not fly, no blitzing.....slowly walking... And there's tons of these little moments sprinkled everywhere. Another time King turned off his flames vs raid suit Sanji, why? To stop him from vanishing and end the fight quicker. So i find it really funny how you claim King wouldn't turn off his flames bc of Sanji vanishing with speed when King was literally proved in the manga itself to be prone to turning off his flames in the face of a vanishing Sanji. I also find it funny how you claim King would just magically know of the raid suit and how it works and then compare that to Sanji without it to deduce that Sanji without a raid suit is doing it off of speed since Queen managed to do it. Forgetting that Queen is an intelligent character who participated in MADS that ALSO studies the Germa group like a fanatic and was wishing Sanji to use the raid suit the entire time to see it in action AND use to work with Judge the main guy behind Germa and its raid suits. King not only is far stupider but also has no prior knowledge of the raid suit like Queen. Queen also had some decent knowledge of Sanji himself as Queen knows his brothers and again has studied them. King knows not even the first about Sanji and would have 0 reason to assume going invisible isn't just one of his powers. What worse is trying to claim that King would not only see this weakness of Sanji (stamina) but would also abuse it.....Are we seriously saying King.....K I N G... would abuse a time limit despite the freebie he gave to Zoro who had an even worse time limit? Kings stupidity knows no bounds and if Sanji and King genuinely fought the guy would be Low - Mid diffed purely because of his atrocious BIQ. And i didn't even fully go off on King on this comment, he has way more horrid moments where hes selling, i just didn't want this to be too long as i think yall get the point.
King turned off his flames not because Zoro was damaging him because King is invincible when flames turned off i saying INVINCIBLE (not taking damage) but that doesn't mean he does not feel any pain he turned off his flames because of pain. That is the most likely scenario.
There is something you need to take which is sanji was able to battel both king and Queen and caring zoro most of the raid also by enhancing his gens bro was getting tired and to the point of him saying his body isn't acting well Let's be real king has to use flaming attacks to damage sanji which well lower his defence Btw sanji vs s shark was something to take to account which is shark was actually damaged and sanji was normal with 0 damage King isn't dumb he would try and he knows that his non flaming attacks wouldn't hit sanji because it's slow But if it's a battel of stamina i do think that king should win because he fought sanji and zoro and marco even if they were in bad conditions but i don't really think that would happen
Sanji vs King and Queen was off screen and I don’t take the anime as cannon. Sanji saying his body feeling weird (due to the germa genes awakening) didn’t hinder his fighting ability which he made clear to Zoro.
@@zagessjignoring the anime is up to you but I personally find it criminal to not include approved canon material as evidence. Either way your an understanding and respectful member of the community so I have zero problems with you personally
@@zagessj i know it didn't do anything to his fighting capabilities but rather his energy and stamina This shouldn't be a problem due to his control over it in egghead island Also don't think that kings normal attacks would hurt sanji because vs s shark he was taking 0 Damage even while s shark was using sharkmankarate which is supposedly dura neg I don't mean anything about the anime but sanji vs king and Queen was in the manga even if we didn't see it completely it doesn't mean that it didn't happen
Thank goodness, I thought Sanji was underrated, but ever since he beat Queen, he has become steadily overrated, especially on TH-cam. Whenever Sanji has been used in debates, it has now resorted to "speed blitz GG." This is kind of baffling since the strongest person Sanji has blitzed is Queen, and now that is being used as a crutch to say he can dominate people stronger than Queen.
Zoro is my 2nd Fav character in the Show / Manga and I can honestly say Zoros , Win only happened due to 2 things King literally didn't stay calm similar to Ace giving into taunts from Sakazuki which led to his untimely passing , similar to how Katakuri lost his train of thought and said it impacts his Adv Observation Haki , that's something I realized alot with Villains and or eager characters in general they may have a definite win then lose due to not thinking before they act , monologue or overestimating their own stats overall or underestimating their foe As for those saying Sanjis speed makes it so he would win forget that Lunarians have absurd stamina all he had to do is wear Sanji out and or remember as long as you can reacr to someone faster than you one can still win the fight by using ones speed against them
If Sanji and Zoro both have 10 chapters battle with King Zoro need 7 chapters to figuring out King's weakness, and 3 chapter to defeat him Sanji need 5 chapters to figuring out King's weakness, and 5 chapter to defeat him
Hear me out.. We never witnessed or even stated that King used Advanced form of Haki. This is because King only relied on his special abilities. To breakdown king’s overall power, basically base King as a Lunarian is the same as mythical zoan creature with the ability of higher defence + Super speed + Super strength + fire ability. In addition of his Ancient zoan power it will double his stats. With a recovery ability of a zoan type. This is why Zoro’s resolve to defeat him is by using a huge amount of Haki plus his cutting techniques that way he can overpower king’s defence. King was never a haki man the same with Queen who is trying to double his stats by using cybernetic abilities. Sanji vs King is not a bad match up. It go either way depending on the momentum of the fight. We see sanji finishing a fight in a combo which delayed the regeneration abilities of his opponent by giving hits after hits then releasing a final blow. King is a dominant fighter and Sanji is a tactical fighter. They can exchange blows but expected in king’s favour. However, with that scenario Sanji will shift his style and look for weak points of his opponent to cause higher damage, we see this when he fights kuroobi, Bon clay, Jyabura, And Queen. These are stronger than him before he find a solution to damage their strong defence. Haki transcend everything, did we see the haki bloom of king when he fought Zoro? No. Did we see the haki bloom when Sanji fought Queen? Yes. That’s the thing about this match up. Sanji will bloom in a tougher fight just like zoro. Ifrit is dominant, it was stated Colour of Armament haki + Exoskeleton + Super speed = Heavier weight/Stronger flames/stronger attacks. "The mystery is solved" by that line he figured out how to bypass the ancient zoan cyborg defence.
I see your points but this will never be a fight of nutrition king will never fight sanji like that , sanjis development rate is too good mid fight and in kings eyes it’s a flat out insane . Remeber king no diffed raid suit sanji but couldn’t beat sanji along with queen with no effort so In kings mind it’s the same as zoro more time =more chances of losing . He will try to end the fight quickly and won’t wait until the end of the fight when Sanji will surpass wano koh AP. Sanji in a long fight will surpass wano zoro AP so king won’t wait for that. Essentially the fight comes down to wether king can kill sanji with an attack that doesn’t take away his flames like when he clashed with zoro. Personally I think king does insane damage with regular swings to sanji but he can’t one shot or anything like that since sanjis durability has gotten a lot better so essentially I see sanji winning after healing . It really come down to the zoro koh wano AP vs current sanji durability comparison of sanji can take several unnamed attacks he wins vs king.
Zoor did all this on a kaido putting a hot 0 effort in the grand scheme. Don’t get me wrong kaido did commend him but it’s not like these attacks are insane. Queen doesn’t see any straw hat except luffy above him until his lost to sanji and he’s only scared and stunned by zoros coc so I don’t think zoro without acoc is doing much to sanji .
@@boininjarj278 he does tho like for example how much stronger do you think king is than queen without flames on . Queen legit mentions the gap between them and mentions only his lunarian dna . How much narrative sense does it even make for flames off king to be so many times more powerful than queen by this logic queens statement makes no sense and even without lunarian dna king would low diff queen. Don’t get me wrong there is no proof but still.
Been saying this for months since this debate came up. There is just no way for sanji to damage king when he has his flame on but people are sayijg sanji wins. How?!!!!!!
I think flames on mode is also likely a stamina drain for king. Why would he be able to just always be in full power mode when not even someone like luffy can be in gear 4 for example. It must be draining like how KOH and Sanji's vanishing speed is draining to them. Otherwise why would King realistically ever turn it off. Zoro's stamina was clearly running out fast. Also why would the seraphims ever turn it off. Just doesn't make sense. The fact its called flames on indicates its an active ability, and therefore needs concentration and stamina to maintain.
@@powerscallingfiend I'd like to agree but no evidence has been shown. Like he should be using that against Lucci, Seraphims and Kizaru but he's not, so maybe it requires him to be in a certain mental state. Who knows for sure other than Oda.
Flame on mode is not a stamina drain in fact Flame on is their natural state in King flash back his flame was on all time the seraphim are still flame on even till now.
@@stevenmontoya7275 It's not Lunarians are built different Oda has told us multiple times using different characters whether you accept it or not it doesn't change anything facts don't care about your opinion
Finally someone who is not a Sanji d rider is spitting facts!! My personal list of strongest to weakest: Zoro, Marco, Katakuri, king, Marco, Sanji, Queen.
And Sanji is both faster and stronger than Marco, marco's Regen is better than Sanji's but if he takes too much damage before he can heal (like the wombo combos Sanji's so fond of) he can be taken out with relative ease, king and queen showed us that
The issue with your argument, is where you think that King can do damage to Sanji. Him clashing with Zoro was not an ap feat, it was a strength feat, where he physically overpowered Zoro, but didn’t do any damage. This COULD maybe hurt Sanji, but not NEARLY as much as Diablo or Ifrit Jambe would hurt King. King’s fighting style revolves around turning his flame on and off, that was shown even before Zoro could hurt him. Sanji was much faster than Zoro even before even before awakening. King would have to stay in flame on the entire fight here, but that’s just not in character and had he done that against Zoro he realistically would’ve won, since they both knew King would take far less damage in flame on compared to off, and KOH would run out of Zoro, making King the winner. So not even using the narrative of Sanji being closely relative to Zoro, nor the Egghead feats, just based off the Wano feats alone, Sanji more than likely would defeat King. Neither can damage the other, but King cannot do nearly as much damage as Sanji, and that’s amplified with the fact that King has on and off, whereas Sanji has it all the time. The time limit isn’t nearly an issue since Sanji at the time had been fighting for a LONG time using raid suit, taking on King and Queen, getting punched up by Black Maria without his haki defense, and fighting Queen. Sanji had no rest the whole arc, so that played a much bigger factor than his Germa power ups.
The problem is Sanji doesn’t seem to have ANYTHING close to KOH acoc zoro,so flames on king won’t take enough significant damage it’ll take a while but with king’s flames being as hot as magma,king should win As for Sanji vs seraphim,Sanji bruised their chin with a disable jambe hit,HOWEVER king’s Alan devil fruit gives him another level of defence meaning he should be able to devour even Ifrit jambe kicks
There's no proof that Acoc damages lunarians. And zoro only says that king was scared of what he could potentially do. No lunarian was ever hit by Acoc since their introduction. It's possible that zoro could have damaged king but we just don't know fo sure. In egghead zoro also says to luffy and the others that the only way to damage lunarians is to hit them when their flames are off, if Acoc worked surely he would have used koh. That doesn't counter your argument because ifrit wouldn't realistically scare king to the same extent as koh but king already used his flame off mode multiple times before zoro unlocked koh so your point doesn't really make sense from my point of view.
King is not an idiot he can scale his own durability this is like arguing I wouldn’t be damaged by a punch without a vest because technically I was never hit without the vest. If I directly indicate I would take damage it’s obv I would prob take damage. Also zoro saying that in that scene is because zoro isn’t all out and nobody in that room plans on going all out . By this logic the fights would be way more serious but every body is chill for a reason . It would also make no sense that the lunarians are extinct. On top of the fact that g5 luffy destroyed lucci but zoro said luci isn’t even close to luffy to the point luffy should have to take him out. Zoro is scaling based on haki and he knows nobody in that room (including luffy) is planning to actually try so if they aren’t the seraphim are invincible . Zoro knows luffy wasn’t serious vs lucci and no one in that room is going to be serious vs the seraphim.
@@lilsam6434 they are trolling so it would if the seraphim were actually strong it would be way more serious . Also yeah he doesn’t he and zoro can manage how much acoc they use but they don’t take the seraphim that serious.
@@gsphil414 They were clearly annoyed by the fact that they weren't able to damage the seraphims. And, again, they would be stupid not to get rid of the seraphims as quickly as possible. Them "trolling" is your headcanon.
@@lilsam6434 so your essentially saying all the seraphim> king also again annoyance doesn’t mean serious nobody in that room takes them serious. These are the same seraphim who got their eyes rolled back by a Zeus attack and scratches on them from sanji diable attacks g5 is destroying them .
This is not even a debate Sanji literally counter King in a fight, flame on he cannot touch Sanji and why you think Sanji would waste stamina attacking King if he know it don't work. And if King getting out speed by sanji, in-character he will definitely turn off his flame try to catch Sanji and in that case he will still get speed blitz badly with a wombo combo of ifrit jambe. Sanji will send him to another island, this lizard getting cook
King wouldnt turn off his flame because he knows sanji couldnt do much with the flame on. But, king wouldnt be able to do much to sanji either due to his germa gene. His body is very hard and could instant rocover. Sanji wouldnt do vanishing speed while king flame's on because he knows it wouldnt damage king and to reserve stamina. The fight is going to be both using normal speed. Sanji's normal speed is faster than king. But, sanji still couldnt hurt king flame on. King could hurt sanji but sanji would recover instantly. This is like ryuma vs zoro all over again. Both pretty much at the same level and abilities. The fight is gonna be too long unless they both use their strongest attack on the get go. Both use fire attack BUT the only difference is sanji's beoef shot is much hotter than king's emporio flame. In fact, sanji's blue flame is hotter than akainu's magma. Akainu's magma could melt through people's limbs and faces so easily. Imagine something hotter than that. So, imo sanji's beoef shot would be stronger than king's emporio flame. So, both are hurt after exchanging attacks. At this point, king realizes sanji could hurt him even with flame on. Sanji also realizes he could hurt king with beoef shot. He would do another beoef shot on king. But, king wouldnt let him. Now, this has become a battle of endurance and we know sanji's endurance is higher than king. King would turn his flame off, vanish and launch barrages of attacks to sanji. Sanji also use vanishing speed to dodge. He would get hit by some, dodges some. Sanji's getting weaker but king's flame off attacks arent as strong as flame on. Sanjiwould be able to endure them but dodging alone would hurt him more. So, sanji would launch barrages of ifrit jambe attacks and neutralizes all of king's attacks. King realizes he's about to get hit and back to flame on and launches another emporio flame. At this point, sanji is hurt more than king. Both exchanges their strongest attacks again. In the end, sanji is severely injured but king is defeated. Sanji wins because of his endurance.
L take L video Here's a better one with better reasoning "Sanji vs king is completely one sided " By- Restless gambler I don't care if sanji loses or wins to king but the reasoning in this video is L too many points are left out just to make sure sanji loses. As i said earlier I don't care if sanji looses or wins a fight but in this case i know that he is gonna win against king
People don't understand that sanji and are the same... Germa used DNA king spiece to make themselves invinsible....the even did some advanvements cause can automatically heal himself when injured. Unlike King he doesn't have to sacrifise his durability when he is on attacking mode... So Sanji will win cause at some point king attack sanji and his defence will be weakened... Again sanji unlike others he doesn't like blocking direct blows he dodges unless is necessary, so he won't get tired
You left out one of Sanji’s best abilities, trash talking. He would have challenged Kings ego making him turn off his flames to fight. Many of the fights in one piece are about people egos and underestimation. Good job on the breakdown tho.
As a sanji fan who've been defending him like crazy and still will to disrespect against him. Sanji need more feats to confidently say he would beat king. I mean oda f**ked up every scaling related to sanji, he gives everything to zoro and make's zoro's opponents be relative to sanji and make him look like he'll lose, using him as a hypetool. Hoping we will get confirmation about sanji really destroyed s-shark's arm with flames on, and good AP, durability(other than tanking no named s-sharks punch) l feats against saturn or kizaru. And if oda still f**ks up sanji's scaling in an arc of signifance to science(which sanji is moulded with), I'mma only open my mouth after final battle.
what the hell? You really think someone who was defeated by luffy before he even fought Katakuri is stronger than Sanji whose speed is way superior to snakeman luffy and attack can send queen flying away? Sanji easily beats Doffy.
You're video is treating ACOC being the be all end all. Whilst ignoring that sanji wasn't even using ifrit against the seraphim yet was still giving them more trouble than the rest of the crew were. Can't agree with your overall assessment, especially when you assuming sanji can't keep up vanishing speed for a long time despite it never being confiremd directly. Also not even accounting for his exoskeleton qnd armemant giving him durability that has literally been compared to a lunarians.
Literally appeals to nobody 😂😂. You're just restating what was pretty much already told to us verbatim. The minority who disagrees isn't gonna be swayed since you provided no new information that refutes their current reasoning.
@@justframe9210 King was worried Zoro could damage him in flame on though. Regardless if Zoro can actually damage flame on King, Sanji's ap is much weaker than Zoro's so King wouldn't worry about it anyways.
@@justframe9210 the most annoying one piece head cannon is that lunarians can’t be damaged with their flames on “best durability in the verse “. So much to disprove it.
Sanji will beat King every fuckin time. Sanji outspeed King and is very durable. And honestly King didn't demonstrate great AP able to take down Sanji. However Ifrit Jambe can put down King.
@@donrog5035That's fair, but claiming that King loses every time is crazy considering he's more durable, has better stamina, and has better AP. His flames were compared to magma, which i OP's highest AP, while he took blows from KOH Zoro, whose Haki surpassed his rooftop version, many times. King is clearly superior.
@@baonemogomotsi7138 He isn't that more durable than Sanji. As for AP , well He did nothing that put his AP above ifrit jambe. Blue flame are hotter than Magma. As for haki , what haki feat does King have ?
Tf you mean overrating? In all fairness zage kept his speed reasonable. If we're dead serious here it's surprisingly reasonable and sound to argue ifrit janbe sanji can blitz flames of king yet zage chose the more calm argument and instead he said that sanji's "vanishing speed" is the only way he can blitz
@@supershenron9168 the fact this ninja is saying it's a battle of attrition, whereas king has better combat speed, ap ,stamina, skill and durability but it's going to a hard fought fight and sanji attacks are not equal nor will ever be close to a conqueror coating attack
@@powerscallingfiend queen scales to king(don't even bullshit on this everything points to queen and king being very similar in power) and king held his own vs KOH Zoro who is stronger than rooftop ashura Zoro.
Sanji's AP isn't anything to sneeze at he damaged hybrid queen who himself stated without kings lunarian DNA he wouldn't be stronger than queen so it's fair to say flames off kings durability is as weak if not weaker than hybrid queen who sanji absolutely obliterated in 9 hits.
Finally, a TH-camr with common sense. Restless Gambler ignored all the points you mentioned and Just made a headcanon $tupid scenario about how the fight would go.
Restless gambler didn't just make up a scenario so sanji wins he used his own interpretation of how sanji's speed works. While zage goes of how in the manga sanji seems tired or drained after extended use of his "vanishing speed" restless gambler instead believes the "vanishing speed" is just his actual speed when he's awakened and his seemingly drained attitude was because he's been fighting for ages before the queen fight. Both of these are valid interpretations that completely changed the outcome of the fight.
@@supershenron9168 All of that just because you failed to realize that it was flat out stated that being in speed mode drains his stamina. Restless Gambler did make up scenarios. He didn't even show the panel or even talk about the fact that Queen stated being in speed mode drains his stamina. And just like you, he also completely ignored that Queen did tag Sanji several times even after the awakening. Which is more evidence that the speed mode isn't his regular speed and he needs to tap into that speed. If that was Sanji's regular speed, Queen would've never been able to tag Sanji at all but Queen literally caught him mid air and slammed him into the wall. Wage even showed another example in this video. Sanji could completely blitz Oven in a particular moment but Couldn't blitz someone weaker than Oven. Restless Gambler acted as if King without his flames is some type of one tap punching bag and Sanji one taps him as soon as he puts the flame off. That's bull$hit cause King even without the flames is as durable as Queen cause both are ancient zoan and I'd actually argue that King has better durability. Now, keep in mind that Sanji needed 9 named ifrit kicks to finally beat Queen who was already very worn out and damaged by that point. Restless Gambler was also $tupid enough to think King would put his flames off. King only put his flames off against Zoro cause Zoro made King feel threatened with his advanced conquerors. Sanji cannot scare him the same way. King did put his flames off against pre-Acoc Zoro but only for brief instances that aren't considerable at all. And that $tupid TH-camr used those inconsiderable brief moments as to why King would put his flames off in the entire@$$ fight for no damn reason. He also ignored that Sanji only went in speed mode to counter Queen's invisibility. He has no reason to go speed mode on King. He can't counter King's durability like that. He'd Just waste his stamina like that. Restless Gambler is one of those Sanji fanboys that think Sanji blitzes all the YC1 just because he blitzed a bum named Queen. His Marco vs Sanji scenario was even dum6er. He said Sanji would just keep blitzing Marco and beating the $hit out of him from all directions until Marco runs out of stamina. Again, completely ignoring that Sanji would be the one losing stamina and Marco is someone who kept up with Kizaru. If Kizaru wasn't able to blitz him that bad, how tf would Sanji do it?
@the-meat-battles I don't think blue flames are hotter than magma in One Piece. Oda has clearly emphasized magma to be the hottest form of fire. Akainu could casually pierce through WB's body but Sanji couldn’t do the same with Queen. Big Mom and Kaido, the most durable beings in the series were both thrown into magma.
if you want people too subscribe too you you got too earn it. remain consistent on your uploads and it will happen naturally over time. when people ask me too subscribe i feel inclined not to. all the people i am subscribed too never asked me. this is the same for a large portion of the viewer base.
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Should I follow up this video with another vs Sanji match up or nah?
The fight starts and sanji clapps your cheeks
Pls do kid vs katakuri. Also once the fight is over with luffy do kizaru vs bm
yessir
So the entire op community is doing tricks on Wanji's 🥩 cartwheels, summersaults, ballerina dances, splits
@@arkangelgodsent2490 lol if you disagree just say that😭. The only debatable thing in the whole video is sanjis current durability and AP since we can’t compare it to zoro.
One of the best breakdowns I’ve seen. I always thought it was pretty lazy for people to say “King turned off his flames because he was dumb” in order to downplay what KOH was doing to him.
King realized that his flames on wouldn’t help so he resorted to his speed. Zoro was able to react and still tag him so he resorted to flying at a distance (his final attack). But Zoro was able to adapt to that as well in the end.
How would flames on not help? Just keep tanking attacks till your opponent is tired
@@unknownplayer7667 Because he cannot continuously tank Zoro's attacks despite having it on. It would be more beneficial to not get hit at all. Sure, it would mitigate some damage but a lot of chip damage would eventually just break through his defenses. Meanwhile what he did instead was to keep it off so he gets maximum speed, kept his distance, and spammed long range attacks.
It was a really smart move on his part but Zoro is a minority hunter and Alber is the sole survivor of his race.
You could say one piece of the best breakdowns
...
Ok ill stop
I haven't even finished the video and I have to commend you for explaining why King changed his strategy vs Zoro once KOH got introduced.
People are too intellectual lazy to proper analyze the fight so they just classified King's decision to create distance and keep his flames off as "dumb". It's quite ironic.
Let's finish the video.
(Let's finish the video). Lol😂😂😂🎉
Let's not forget that Zoro was only able to break part of King's mask while his flame was off when he was attacked with Tiger Hunt. It wasn't until Zoro got acoc that he was able to actually make King bleed which he wasn't able to do before even though his flame was off.
yh King flame off was only lossing cople drops of blood from a straight on koh ultra tiger hunt wich scale above the rooftop attacks that hurt kaido beside ashura maybe. and Sanji didnt even shwoed AP feats above Rooftop enma attacks wich didnt even leaved a singel scratch on King.
@@Kronzo_Z no , he was dropping blood from bird dance not ultra tiger hunt he blocked ultra tiger hunt even with flames on .
@@gsphil414 im talking about his first KoH Santoryu Ultra Tiger Hunt. King blocked it in flame off after getting overpowerd he was only lousing a couple drops of blood.
@@Kronzo_Z no that’s not ultra tiger hunt . King blocks it in flames on then when he goes to use flames off zoro cuts him but that’s not ultra tiger hunt and it isn’t one of those moments when they clash and one person overpowers and does damage . Ultra tiger hunt is an attack that down with all three swords but after zoro cuts him two swords are to zoros left while the sword in his mouth is up to the left. Zoro doesn’t have the time to charge up a hole named attack in the time king turns his flames off in that specific moment and zoro would of said the attack if he did it twice . It’s a regular acoc zoro swing with all three swords .
@@gsphil414 xD watch 1062 again bro. IK it was not in the manga that Zoro sayed the name of the attack that he landed there but we see even in the manga how King gets hit in flame off by Zoro and like said only was bleeding little from it.
My only issue with this is… why did Zoro say it’s useless to attack the seraphim when their flames are on during egghead? He told it to Luffy too. These means he doesn’t have full confidence they can injure them even with Acoc.
Good question and it definitely seems strange but there can be a good reason for it. Zoro is speaking in a general sense as even if he knows he can damage the Seraphim with ACoC, he probably doesn’t expect Lucci and Kaku to also have that power. In the case of Luffy it’s not like he’s actually seen Luffy’s power post rooftop battle and even if he knows Luffy can use acoco it wouldn’t apply to Lucci and Kaku as I said already.
Either way King clearly felt threatened by acoc attacks that he changed his whole method of fighting Zoro.
Too many W opinions. I can't handle so many W's🤯
AYyo what in the positive supportive FACTS is going tf on here 🤨🧐
The downplay on sanjis AP is crazy
Agreed.
Cry fanboy
Womp Womp it's true
Damaging queen ain’t impressive at all even chopper without haki could do it while zoro with adv armament couldn’t and was barely damaging flames off king with adv arm
Sanji can’t damage flames off or on king stop your delusion
Oh God 😂
1. It’s possible Zoro is able to damage king in his flame on mode but I think you should point out that we have never seen that. It’s kind of implied but it’s also implied that a big part of zoro being able to beat king had to do with his knowledge of how his ability worked. Even after he unlocked ACOC he still waited for the flame to go off and logically If he was able to still keep fighting after taking ACOC with no flame adding the flame should functionally give him more protection. And from his convo on egghead he still seems to consider flame on king to be basically invulnerable.
2. Sanji actually did damage the seraphim with the flame on. You can see damage marks on its chin their first encounter after sanji attacked it with a non germa form diable jamb. That’s pretty telling. Doesn’t confirm anything but we haven’t seen the upper limit of sanji’s infrit jamb and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say it would do major damage to a flame off king seeing what it did to queen who is a cybernetic ancient zoan. Obviously king with the flame on is a different story but I don’t believe king would be able to just stay in his flame on mode anyway.
As kid mentioned, even water can eventually carve stone. I don’t really see any of kings lesser attacks damaging sanji with his exoskeleton let alone his speed, and if they do he can easily regenerate or even shatter kings blade on his body if he actually uses ararment, which he didn’t when queens blade shattered. If sanji doesn’t immediately use his more stamina draining techniques and fights smart, king will get frustrated with his inability to hit/do any lasting damage to sanji and he will either A, turn flames off to try to tag sanji. (Queen using at least light speed germa attacks > flames on king in terms of speed) or B, use his ultimate move and make himself vulnerable. In both of these scenarios sanji will be smart enough to use his ifrit Jamie + vanishing speed to blitz and strike king for massive damage, possibly fight ending if he uses the same buef burst combo he did against queen, who’s also insanely tough. There’s an argument that he’s tougher then kings base form. King hasn’t shown any major BIQ feats in the series to see this coming while sanji has proven to be one of the smartest fighters in the series.
This would only really work if sanji is smart enough to employ this strategy, which I would argue he is, but if he didn’t do this then he basically has no way to win. But there’s definitely a good chance he can win.
I keep seeing people perpetuate the myth that Sanji has some superhuman Regen. It's been literally explicitly shown in WCI that Germa exoskeleton is malleable and can be formed back into proper shape, it's not Regen.
I can't believe people now tout Sanji as some durable character when every attack other than the sword swing from Queen hurt him. Every attack landed from King will hurt Sanji. And using the same logic with Sanji, Queen's blade also didn't use armament. You're acting as if King wasn't clashing swords with Zoro.
No, King in his slow form is faster than Queen in any form. Also, kind of redundant to specify that Queen was using light speed Germa attacks when his go-to attack is rapid-fire lasers, it literally doesn't mean anything to his speed.
Speedwise, Sanji is heavily wanked. People put him among the fastest people in the verse because he went FTE to Queen, then they scale Queen to Marco, then Marco to Kizaru. Except Kizaru was obviously toying with Marco, and Queen wasn't capable of reacting fast enough to even defend against Marco who was mostly focused on keeping him occupied. Meanwhile, Marco let King hit him to hit King back, even when King was in his slow form.
But we're all supposed to believe that Sanji when in his Germa mode can blitz King, in his faster form, when using IJ, which was also explicitly stated by Oda to require Sanji a wide space to run around and accelerate to a high enough speed to even reach that, and remain unharmed by King's magma flames, and also do enough damage in the short duration he can actually use IJ, against King, who took multiple attacks from Zoro with aCoC that were at least comparable to the attack Zoro used to scar Kaido if not stronger, in his less durable form.
😂😂😂
@@CrimsonDRagon-bi9ce w take brother. However I personally disagree with a few thing.
1. queen literally said the germa kids have abnormal regeneration. They have it. I don't think is as potent and constant as Marco's for example, but don't pretend it was never stated when it's literally written in the Manga that they do have regeneration.
2. Sanji didn't use armament when he shattered queen's hakiless sword attack, so there's no evidence that a haki sword attack from king would damage sanji's exo+armament defense. On top of that, king is not a swordsman so we could even argue he lacks the "cutting" expertise people like zoro, kinemon, oden have.
3. Oda himself stated in sbs 103 that sanji obtain the power to dissappear (which is how invisibility is called whether if it's from Germa science or the clear clear fruit) but it comes from speed. Is understandable why people would think (and rightfully so imo) that sanji scales among the fastest characters in op. Thing is, perception blitzing queen does not tell us the actual speed limit sanji has. So to use queen to downplay sanji's speed doesn't make sense to me. The fact that both king and sanji can go "invisible" only means they might share the same amount of minimum level required. Not the same limit.
4. All kings attacks are fire based, and sanji is already the most fire resistant in the crew after luffy without the exo. With the exo (which by the way, Is a passive defense) he is even more, so we don't know how much damage sanji would really receive, specially since sanji would be using armament to block (on top of his exo that is always active since is passive). On the other hand, king's also fire resistant at the very least so we don't know how much damage sanji would be able to do to him.
If sanji wins, it'd be a near death experience imo. I give king the upper hand becuase so far sanji has no way to potentially bypass flame on defense.
@@svz1345 1. Which chapter?
2. The evidence is that King went toe to toe with Zoro who could cut Kaido, unless the argument is that Sanji is physically more durable than Dragon Kaido, in which case I'll reflect the argument back and because there's no evidence that Sanji can take sword attacks equal to other sword attacks that could cut Kaido.
3. Yes, Sanji gained the speed to disappear from the vision of Queen. My argument is that that feat doesn't even put him in the top 10 of the fastest characters in the verse. Imu, 5 Elders, Admirals both pre and postTS, Luffy, Shanks, and Mihawk are all at least a tier above him in speed. What tells us about his limit is that he couldn't go FTE to Queen in normal combat, he's explicitly stated that he needs a wide area to run around to reach that speed, and he also didn't blitz Queen casually like Marco did.
4. Physical fire resistance doesn't tell much since Zoro, Luffy and Jinbe have better armament than he does, Luffy can just extend the distance of his body to any fire with his advanced armament, Zoro can literally cut fire, and Jinbe can control water. It's also irrelevant since how good Sanji's fire resistance relative to the crew doesn't actually say anything about how he'd deal with magma fire.
@@CrimsonDRagon-bi9ce
1. Chapter 1029, right after sanji awekens his germa powers.
2. That's no evidence at all. That's like saying vista can go toe toe toe with shanks because he briefly clashed with mihawk. Swords of good quality in one piece normally don't break. Vista's sword never did and he was clashing with the strongest sword (that happens to be a black blade), does that mean Vista's haki and cutting abilities = mihawk's?? Zoro was able to directly clash swords with ryuma's black blade and his swords didn't break dispite zoro not using armament coating. Zoro was able to block a combine coc attack from two yonko with his three armament coated swords, and they did not shattered, does that mean zoro's ap = conquest of the sea??
You're saying it as if king directly countered zoro's named attack with his own swordsmanship which is not true. He was either blocking or tanking zoro's named attacks with his body+flame on (when zoro used dragon twister, or tiger hunter, king used his animal wings but the flames were on so his lunarian durability was doing most of the job), or completely evading zoro's named attacks. King was directly clashing with zoro's regular swordplay, not his named attacks. The moment one of zoro's named attacks made contact with king's sword, his sword literally broke. So your "evidence" is not any evidence at all, neither is your counter argument because nothing suggest king has attacks that can cut kaido since clashing swords with zoro don't prove that.
3. Your point is very subjective. Not saying it is impossible, but extremely subjective. For shanks and mihawk, it is possible but for the admirals, the 5 elders and imu?? Not at all until we see concrete feats, and even then it would still be debatable because by the time we see them in action sanji will be stronger and faster than he currently hmis anyways. I can name you 3 yonkos who sanji is faster than right now and the only Admiral we could confirm to be currently is kizaru. So sanji can very well be among the top 10 fastest characters in op as of now already. Specially considering the how much emphasis Oda puts on his speed.
Nobody can go that fast in normal combat. Everybody needs something. Zoro cannot blitz unless he uses a specific technique, luffy can be tagged in g2 so g4 snakeman is what he needs, and that only makes his arms move that fast not his whole body. Sanji's limit is more stamina wise than actual speed specifically. And sanji does not need a wide area. Sanji's explosive speed can already make him dissappear instantly soru style, we've seen that already . Sanji didn't start running and then became invisible the more distant he covered. He literally just vanished on site, same way zoro does when he uses lion song.
4. The context of a fight against someone like king, yes it does matter and it tells a lot. You're saying it as if zoro luffy and jimbe use armament defensively the same way sanji's exo covers his whole body, when they literally never fight like that. Zoro has never used armament defensively until he was forced to because his swords would've not protected him from that explosion. They have to be aware of it all the time, what if they are caught off guard then??
My point is, high heat tolerance + the extra layer of exo protection is sanji's way to deal with king's fire abilities and mitigate the potential damage he might get even if he is caught off guard, specially since those are passive defense abilities for sanji. Luffy was blasted twice with Boro breath, the first time zoro protected him, but the second time? I don't remember him extending his adv armament haki the way you say he would, he straight up tanked that blast cause he barely had time to react (g5 might be the only time where his coc might have passively protected him, but it didn't seem like it).
It's also relevant because his armament+exo allowed to withstand ifrit jambe (stated by himself, I can withstand even hotter flames), which in temperature, scales higher than any flame attack king has except the magma fire. And don't use the "we don't know if king's flames have higher temperature than sanji" cause based on writting we know they don't. The only times it's been implied flames were extremely hot in the story has been essentially in wano, with kaido's flaming Bagua, kings final attack and sanji's ifrit, and all thesd three had special visual designs to highlight that. Any other flame we've seen so far (except Marco's and akainu magma ) scale lower than those three temperature wise
But again, we could go forever and we would both be just speculating for the most part. The only thing we know for a fact is that sanji cannot damage king in flame on. Everything else, I think is up for interpretation. Good chat brother 😁
W bro sanji fans should expect the bitter truth king will win in hig diff 🤣🤣🤣 oda knows its so he made sanji battle with queen
W. Great analysis. 👍
Great video!
Hey Zage, I see your points BUT I'm going to have to disagree. Here's my reasoning:
For starters, Sanji did end up leaving scratches on S-Shark with its flames on. And remember, this was with diable jambe. With ifrit, Sanji went from slightly damaging queen to straight up one-shotting him with a string of rapid attacks so it's clear ifrit boosts AP by a tonne. I very much can see Sanji doing damage to Lunarians with flames on.
Next, point: could King even damage Sanji? I mean, a hybrid Queen - who's physical strength should be above King's due to his much larger stature which in one piece typically reflects on strength - couldn't even leave a scratch on Sanji after a full 2 handed overhead swing. Both Sanji's endurance and durability are above Zoro's as he stands up with half of his bones and internal organs FLATTENED and simply says "it hurts a bit". Even if King does end up getting past Sanji's durability, he will easily regenerate it.
Another thing you mentioned was Sanji's speed: Sanji's base speed > King's flame off speed. This shouldn't even be a question. Sure, Sanji got caught off-guard by Queen a couple times, but you're ignoring that he was dodging countless laser beams throughout the fight. Zoro was struggling against the speed of Imperial Deep Pride Stake and even compared it to a laser beam. Meanwhile, a pre-Germa awakening Sanji was dancing around Queen's arguably quicker attacks with ease. Considering that Sanji's speed is way above Zoro's, and Zoro was able to perceive, clash and even hit a flame off King, I have base Sanji being faster than King. This isn't even mentioning Sanji's awakening, diable or ifrit as all three have both been stated to increase his speed. Sanji will not need his 'vanish mode' to outspeed King.
Also, you mentioned that King only turned his flames off when Zoro's attacks started hurting him through his durability. This is not true, he also turned them off back when they were fighting indoors. At this point, Zoro had not landed a single significant attack on king so he clearly turned them off for the speed advantage. Since Sanji is considerably faster than Zoro, King will 100% turn his flames off. Sanji, with a battle IQ higher than Zoro's, would very quickly pick up on King trading durability for speed and realise that this is his chance to beat him. A vanishing speed-blitz into an ifrit combo would be more than enough to finish King.
Not all laser beams within the show move at the same speed; So I don’t see why you would use this as a benchmark for their speed. For example luffy in base form managed to effortlessly dodge laser beams in the beginning and currently zoro and sanji outspeed this may version of luffy by a lot; they eventually just out right power cliff that version.
So literally you shouldn’t have taken that statement too literally.
And apart of your message is a huge pre supposition on your part. You can argue that sanji is faster but you are making it seem like it’s a huge difference, like a very huge difference.
And the last part, I don’t think he only traded his dura for speed because he was being hurt but at some point he decided not to block even with his durability high due to how strong zoros attacks were.
And what reasoning do you have that makes sanji battle iq so largely greater than zoros
There’s no such thing as vanishing speed either. You have to prove that sanji can perception blitz king in the first place
@@ExctacyMusicwhy wouldn't he be able to, it's never stated that king or queen have particularly good observation haki and sanji perception blitzed queen so it's a fair statement
@@ExctacyMusic💀omg watch the episode when he saved momo king and queen didn’t even khow what was happening omg this is pointless
Every fight against a first commander is an unfair one. Each one has some way to just completely avoid any and all damage if you don't meet a certain threshold. Against King, if you don't have Conqueror's Coating level AP, you can't damage him. Against Katakuri, if you don't have Future Sight level speed, you can't damage him. Against Marco, if you don't have Mythical Zoan level endurance, all your damage gets outhealed.
This is why the first commanders are such a threat, they're not only incredibly strong, but for nearly every character they are just impossible to beat. They're the wall that separates the top tier characters from the rest. I'm wondering if this trend will continue with Shiryu and Benn Beckman.
Yeah, YC1 are true monsters with overpowered and unique abilities
Oda would always go with this system , if luffy fights the strongest , zoro would fight the second and sanji would always fight the third strongest , when the strawhats fight blackbeard pirates later on , luffy would fighting blackbeard(not just because he's the strongest but also luffy would beat him due to personal matters) , then zoro would fight shiryu(perfectly fits for zoro since shiryu was also a swordsman with invisibility ability , good for zoro to get advanced observation haki and also a perfect opportunity to master his armament haki) , and then sanji would fight either burgess or lafitte.
@@compDict19 I think this prediction might end up being wrong in the specific case of the Blackbeard pirates because we’ve seen sanji show a lot of interest in the clear clear fruit before and this could be an interesting moment for him to face off against the one devil fruit he wants. It doesn’t always have to be as simple as zoro fights the sword guy.
@@obvv7714 but we could considered that fact too , maybe sanji fights shiryu in the future.
I completely misjudged your channel tbh, I strongly assumed that you were a Zoro downplayer but after seeing your other scaling videos I have to honestly say that they are very good and make a lot of sense scaling wise. I also think that King is just a bad matchup for Sanji and fire based attacks have no effect at all on King i assume even in flame OFF, which in turn is actually Sanji's strongest ability.
The janbe's aren't just fire on his kicks they also increase the speed of the kicks as stated by sanji during enis lobby when he first used diamble janbe and speed is weight aka attack power
@@supershenron9168 yes it increased his speed also, but his flames are still useless against the wildfire no matter how hot they burn. Young falme OFF King was chained in ranging fire without problems. weight is no probelm for flame on Lunarians look at the child seraphim they are eating a combined attack from hybrid lucci and luffy bounce man without problems.
Sanji gets a better match up than zoro agaisnt king lmao
@@Wu_bandz no king is better in everything. Zoro luck was he had enough AP for that monster.
@@Kronzo_Z sanji is faster than zoro, so he’s going to force king to turn of his flames faster, sanji is smarter than zoro so he’s going to figure out the trick with his flames earlier, sanji can deal with king flying, sanji also has better observation haki than zoro so he can deal with any of his attacks not to mention sanji has some fire resistance, and saying you need acoc to hurt king is some extreme glazing considering how zoro destroyed him once he turned his flames off, besides sanji definitely has enough ap to deal with him considering how he mid diffed queen who has been stated multiple times that they’re relative with king having an edge even if king with his flames on has as much durability as kaido that isn’t a problem considering how sanji is so much faster than him that he can press him into turning off his flames
I agree. King would get the better of Sanji. BUt Sanji will always be my favorite character in the Strawhat Crew, cuz when it comes to Anime/Manga, its not about who the strongest is that matters, what really matters is the character's story. STORY IS KING, and Sanji's back story is probably my favorits among the Straw Hat crew and second best to Nami's when it comes to how well it is written.
In yr opinion
What does that have to do with the fight
Sorry but Sanji takes almost all stats by a good amount especially strength, speed, AP.
Cap
Sanji gets high diffed
@@Naldinho456 sanji mid-high diffs
@@muhammed-yusuf959 the fight would go like this
Sanji would use his vanishing speed king realisez he can't tag sanji than king will turn on his flames sanji can't do shit even with ifrit they will go back and forth sanji falls 9n the ground king wins
A vid featuring one of my fav Yonko Commanders (King) released on my Birthday…..awesome
Happy birthday
@@zagessjThank you, I’m enjoying it so far
Zage when you get more information about dragon, make one about dragon versus shanks
Btw is there any serious way King to damage Sanji? His flames wont do anything to him
Scaling to zoro who can cut kaido also sanji is not immune to flames
@@isaacmybro9570Sanji is immune to flames. He is even immune to his blue flames
@@isaacmybro9570exoskeleton grants immunity to flames and heat lol.
@@ReyReyzzz not complete immunity more like high tolerance if DONUT D MAKER pulls up he gets bo diffed
You summed up my opinion on this matchup. I have Sanji one spot beneath King on my list. As you said, there is no proof of Sanjis AP being enough, and we still don't know the details about Sanjis regen. Sure, he can easily heal from a Queen sword strike, but does that mean he could heal that quickly if King (who is on a completely different level to Queen) hits him with a big attack. Does Sanjis regen take more stamina from him if the attack he gets hit by is much stronger, so it takes a lot more of his stamina to heal his body? These are things we still have to see.
Kings not that far above queen. Let's be real here they are both implied and stated to be similar in power like how queen said if king didn't have his lunarian DNA aka his flames on mode he'd be no stronger than queen himself or how neither of them correct the other for not calling the superior of the two big bro like jack calls them both or there bounty's being similar or them being Zoro and sanji's opponents(since Zoro and sanji's opponents have always been extremely close in power just look at jabra and kaku for an example of this)etc
@@supershenron9168 Flames off King was throwing post-rooftop healed Zoro around like a ragdoll. Zoro couldn't do anything until ACoc. And that pre-ACoc Zoro just did all the crazy stuff on the rooftop against the Yonko. Rooftop Zoro murders Queen and King made him look like a baby. King is very clearly stated to be Kaido's strongest subordinate in SBS and such. Queen literally does nothing to King. If King is flames on, then he just stands there. If King is flames off he blitzes the fuck out of Queen, since he was fast enough to disappear in front of Zoro.
@@nikjovan4816queen is repeatedly stated, implied and shown to be relative in power to king for example queens literal statement that if it wasn't for kings lunarian DNA aka his flames on mode he'd be no stronger than queen himself or their bounty's being similar or them literally being Zoro and sanji's opponents(literally since enis lobby the trend is Zoro gets the slightly stronger guy and sanji gets the slightly weaker guy that is a fact wether you like it or not) or them not correcting each other on not calling the superior of the two big bro like jack does because he's weaker than them.
@@nikjovan4816 also rooftop Zoro is not beating queen
@@supershenron9168Rooftop Zoro AP is crazy, what makes you think Queen has a chance?
Regardless of the outcome, I'm subbing. Thought I did a while ago, my bad
In chapter 1027 King turn off his flames tho eventhough Zoro isn't using king of hell yet. I don't think King will keep his flame on even Sanji has no way of damaging it which leaves King more vulnerable. But since he could still endure 1 sword style Acoc just fine, I think only Ifrit Jambe can deal significant damage. The rest of Sanji's kicks are just too weak whether King is in flame on or off mode. I agree King still wins anyway.
The moments King turned off his flame vs pre KOH Zoro was either when they had a clash off attacks like in 1027 which you mentioned or the instances Enma was fighting against Zoro so King basically had the advantage in those instances because Zoro couldn’t focus on King properly.
Obviously different opponents would be handled differently but it’s been consistent for King to rely on his flame on defence until it stops working.
King will definitely wouldn't turn his flames-off once he realizes that Sanji wrecks him in the speed category. Again, no evidence Sanji might force King to NOT rely on his Flames-on state. Even against S-Shark, Sanji was overpowering the seraphim but kept getting back anyway until the bubble gun.
I thought this was gonna be one of those Sanji solos the verse type of videos, my bad. Good video mans :D
Don't worry it's a video that's meant to wank Zoro and his previous opponents.
Finally agree with someone on this take
Trying to play King off as not someone with -50IQ is baffling to me. King turning off his flames is just 1 of like 5 horrible BIQ moments he had during Wano. Lemme explain both why King's IQ is -50 but also why King turning off his flames is guaranteed to happen.
Zoro legit says "I dont have much time" out loud. At one point King the idiot was even watching over him just standing there as Enma drains him *multiple times.* So not only did King the idiot see it happen once, he saw it happen back to back and frequently at that. Anyone with an IQ above 10 would realize "oh, my opponent has a massive time limit on him, maybe i should use the form that makes me last considerably longer" or "My opponent has these massive timeframes where hes just unable to fight every couple minutes....maybe i should wait for that". King defenders wanna argue "oh but KOH mode Zoro would've dealt damage anyways! Look at this implication!" Which fails to note that even if KOH Zoro could theoretically damage flames on King it would still make him tank way more damage which works towards his win conditions. It doesn't matter that he gets injured, the fact is that he needs to stall for time and he *should* know this because Zoro not only said it out loud but King the idiot literally watched it happen infront of his own eyes *multiple* times. Pair that alongside him blocking and the fact that Flames on King's speed was already shown to be on the level of Zoro, flames on King would've lasted for an extremely long amount of time and even if he wouldn't, he would atleast easily outlast KOH mode.
And this isn't even going into the fact that King wasn't scared of KOH because he just knew it'd damage him. He was scared because Kaido, the guy who he worships and believes to be #1 strongest is a adv conq haki user. King just witnessed Zoro unlock an ability that his captain who King worships uses and he believes to be stronger than anyone else...that hes Joyboy. Anyone under that situation would be fearful even if it damaged him or not. Not every single detail has to do with powerscaling. Pair that alongside Zoro stating in egghead that they're immune with their flames on even after unlocking KOH and its pretty clear to see the truth of the situation.
Anyways, King the idiot decides to attempt to end the fight quickly, the *exact* thing Zoro wants. King gets slashed once and takes massive damage, but hey its fine, King should *now* realize that maybe this just isn't the play, its already cost his a ton of health.....nope round 2, King the idiot tries blitzing Zoro, fails and gets cut once again taking massive damage. Now again any person above an IQ of 10 with even the smallest will to live would've thought "wow this really isn't working out and im about to die and even blitzing him, the entire point of why i went into this mode just isn't working... Maybe i should swap modes". But again, King is not right in the head and attempts a third time. And like literally 99% of people would've saw coming, he gets slashed and goes down.....🤦♂. King had the most free win in existence and just threw it away.
What's even more baffling is how you just think King just.....wouldn't turn off his flames....? You do realize King has turned off his flames for the literal most random nonsensical reasons in the past right? One time he turned his flames to literally just walk up to Zoro, not run, not fly, no blitzing.....slowly walking... And there's tons of these little moments sprinkled everywhere.
Another time King turned off his flames vs raid suit Sanji, why? To stop him from vanishing and end the fight quicker. So i find it really funny how you claim King wouldn't turn off his flames bc of Sanji vanishing with speed when King was literally proved in the manga itself to be prone to turning off his flames in the face of a vanishing Sanji.
I also find it funny how you claim King would just magically know of the raid suit and how it works and then compare that to Sanji without it to deduce that Sanji without a raid suit is doing it off of speed since Queen managed to do it. Forgetting that Queen is an intelligent character who participated in MADS that ALSO studies the Germa group like a fanatic and was wishing Sanji to use the raid suit the entire time to see it in action AND use to work with Judge the main guy behind Germa and its raid suits. King not only is far stupider but also has no prior knowledge of the raid suit like Queen. Queen also had some decent knowledge of Sanji himself as Queen knows his brothers and again has studied them. King knows not even the first about Sanji and would have 0 reason to assume going invisible isn't just one of his powers.
What worse is trying to claim that King would not only see this weakness of Sanji (stamina) but would also abuse it.....Are we seriously saying King.....K I N G... would abuse a time limit despite the freebie he gave to Zoro who had an even worse time limit?
Kings stupidity knows no bounds and if Sanji and King genuinely fought the guy would be Low - Mid diffed purely because of his atrocious BIQ. And i didn't even fully go off on King on this comment, he has way more horrid moments where hes selling, i just didn't want this to be too long as i think yall get the point.
Before I watch I think Sanji would win high diff
Let me know if you have new thoughts
@@zagessj 🙏
To be real.sanji low diffs😅sanji beat queen e z while. Being beat up (by spider woman).and sanji can damage him😂
Queen
King turned off his flames not because Zoro was damaging him because King is invincible when flames turned off i saying INVINCIBLE (not taking damage) but that doesn't mean he does not feel any pain he turned off his flames because of pain. That is the most likely scenario.
Bro wat
@@whatthatbout4629 saying that King is invincible when flames on but he can still feel pain that's the case why he turned it off against Zoro
There is something you need to take which is sanji was able to battel both king and Queen and caring zoro most of the raid also by enhancing his gens bro was getting tired and to the point of him saying his body isn't acting well
Let's be real king has to use flaming attacks to damage sanji which well lower his defence
Btw sanji vs s shark was something to take to account which is shark was actually damaged and sanji was normal with 0 damage
King isn't dumb he would try and he knows that his non flaming attacks wouldn't hit sanji because it's slow
But if it's a battel of stamina i do think that king should win because he fought sanji and zoro and marco even if they were in bad conditions but i don't really think that would happen
Sanji vs King and Queen was off screen and I don’t take the anime as cannon. Sanji saying his body feeling weird (due to the germa genes awakening) didn’t hinder his fighting ability which he made clear to Zoro.
Even the on screen part shows that the fight btw king,queen,sanji was not intense
@@zagessjignoring the anime is up to you but I personally find it criminal to not include approved canon material as evidence. Either way your an understanding and respectful member of the community so I have zero problems with you personally
@@zagessj i know it didn't do anything to his fighting capabilities but rather his energy and stamina
This shouldn't be a problem due to his control over it in egghead island
Also don't think that kings normal attacks would hurt sanji because vs s shark he was taking 0 Damage even while s shark was using sharkmankarate which is supposedly dura neg
I don't mean anything about the anime but sanji vs king and Queen was in the manga even if we didn't see it completely it doesn't mean that it didn't happen
@@brainiac396 even if it wasn't intense it did happen but it's not crazy but rather just good
Thank goodness, I thought Sanji was underrated, but ever since he beat Queen, he has become steadily overrated, especially on TH-cam. Whenever Sanji has been used in debates, it has now resorted to "speed blitz GG." This is kind of baffling since the strongest person Sanji has blitzed is Queen, and now that is being used as a crutch to say he can dominate people stronger than Queen.
Cause he can 🤷♂️
He blitzes anyone that isnt a yonko
@@vinsmokesanji9251 based on what NIGGA.
@@vinsmokesanji9251No he doesn’t😂
@@vinsmokesanji9251 so he blitzes admirals gotosei the pirate king imu yc1s I. Your dumb logic
Zoro is my 2nd Fav character in the Show / Manga and I can honestly say Zoros , Win only happened due to 2 things King literally didn't stay calm similar to Ace giving into taunts from Sakazuki which led to his untimely passing , similar to how Katakuri lost his train of thought and said it impacts his Adv Observation Haki , that's something I realized alot with Villains and or eager characters in general they may have a definite win then lose due to not thinking before they act , monologue or overestimating their own stats overall or underestimating their foe
As for those saying Sanjis speed makes it so he would win forget that Lunarians have absurd stamina all he had to do is wear Sanji out and or remember as long as you can reacr to someone faster than you one can still win the fight by using ones speed against them
bro wanna be restless gambler so badly
His better than Mr "tHe fIgHt sTaRtS aNd sAnJi diSApEarSe
If Sanji and Zoro both have 10 chapters battle with King
Zoro need 7 chapters to figuring out King's weakness, and 3 chapter to defeat him
Sanji need 5 chapters to figuring out King's weakness, and 5 chapter to defeat him
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
Zage you need a power scaling round table live debate
Hear me out.. We never witnessed or even stated that King used Advanced form of Haki. This is because King only relied on his special abilities. To breakdown king’s overall power, basically base King as a Lunarian is the same as mythical zoan creature with the ability of higher defence + Super speed + Super strength + fire ability. In addition of his Ancient zoan power it will double his stats. With a recovery ability of a zoan type. This is why Zoro’s resolve to defeat him is by using a huge amount of Haki plus his cutting techniques that way he can overpower king’s defence. King was never a haki man the same with Queen who is trying to double his stats by using cybernetic abilities. Sanji vs King is not a bad match up. It go either way depending on the momentum of the fight. We see sanji finishing a fight in a combo which delayed the regeneration abilities of his opponent by giving hits after hits then releasing a final blow. King is a dominant fighter and Sanji is a tactical fighter. They can exchange blows but expected in king’s favour. However, with that scenario Sanji will shift his style and look for weak points of his opponent to cause higher damage, we see this when he fights kuroobi, Bon clay, Jyabura, And Queen. These are stronger than him before he find a solution to damage their strong defence. Haki transcend everything, did we see the haki bloom of king when he fought Zoro? No. Did we see the haki bloom when Sanji fought Queen? Yes. That’s the thing about this match up. Sanji will bloom in a tougher fight just like zoro. Ifrit is dominant, it was stated Colour of Armament haki + Exoskeleton + Super speed = Heavier weight/Stronger flames/stronger attacks. "The mystery is solved" by that line he figured out how to bypass the ancient zoan cyborg defence.
That Zoro staff must taste good these days
I see your points but this will never be a fight of nutrition king will never fight sanji like that , sanjis development rate is too good mid fight and in kings eyes it’s a flat out insane . Remeber king no diffed raid suit sanji but couldn’t beat sanji along with queen with no effort so In kings mind it’s the same as zoro more time =more chances of losing . He will try to end the fight quickly and won’t wait until the end of the fight when Sanji will surpass wano koh AP. Sanji in a long fight will surpass wano zoro AP so king won’t wait for that. Essentially the fight comes down to wether king can kill sanji with an attack that doesn’t take away his flames like when he clashed with zoro. Personally I think king does insane damage with regular swings to sanji but he can’t one shot or anything like that since sanjis durability has gotten a lot better so essentially I see sanji winning after healing . It really come down to the zoro koh wano AP vs current sanji durability comparison of sanji can take several unnamed attacks he wins vs king.
Zoro could damage kaido without king of hell, his ap is more than enough for sanji's durability even before getting conqueror's coating
Conqueror coating >>>>>>>tricks
This is pure waffling sanji has no attacks comparable to KOH zoro much less rooftop zoro
Zoor did all this on a kaido putting a hot 0 effort in the grand scheme. Don’t get me wrong kaido did commend him but it’s not like these attacks are insane. Queen doesn’t see any straw hat except luffy above him until his lost to sanji and he’s only scared and stunned by zoros coc so I don’t think zoro without acoc is doing much to sanji .
@@boininjarj278 he does tho like for example how much stronger do you think king is than queen without flames on . Queen legit mentions the gap between them and mentions only his lunarian dna . How much narrative sense does it even make for flames off king to be so many times more powerful than queen by this logic queens statement makes no sense and even without lunarian dna king would low diff queen. Don’t get me wrong there is no proof but still.
W takes 👍
Finally a One Piece "power scaler" with a brain
King stomps
Gets*
@@BigBallsLover6969 *good after beating sanji
Another wage w
king wins, mid diff
Keep lying to yourself.
Been saying this for months since this debate came up. There is just no way for sanji to damage king when he has his flame on but people are sayijg sanji wins. How?!!!!!!
I think flames on mode is also likely a stamina drain for king. Why would he be able to just always be in full power mode when not even someone like luffy can be in gear 4 for example. It must be draining like how KOH and Sanji's vanishing speed is draining to them. Otherwise why would King realistically ever turn it off. Zoro's stamina was clearly running out fast. Also why would the seraphims ever turn it off. Just doesn't make sense. The fact its called flames on indicates its an active ability, and therefore needs concentration and stamina to maintain.
Luffy in base with conqueror coating was enough for the seraphim, he literally just did not use at all
@@powerscallingfiend I'd like to agree but no evidence has been shown. Like he should be using that against Lucci, Seraphims and Kizaru but he's not, so maybe it requires him to be in a certain mental state. Who knows for sure other than Oda.
Flame on mode is not a stamina drain in fact Flame on is their natural state in King flash back his flame was on all time the seraphim are still flame on even till now.
@@BalmainBeelzebub well that's pretty stupid in my opinion.
@@stevenmontoya7275 It's not Lunarians are built different Oda has told us multiple times using different characters whether you accept it or not it doesn't change anything facts don't care about your opinion
Finally someone who is not a Sanji d rider is spitting facts!! My personal list of strongest to weakest: Zoro, Marco, Katakuri, king, Marco, Sanji, Queen.
You mentioned Marco twice
And Sanji is both faster and stronger than Marco, marco's Regen is better than Sanji's but if he takes too much damage before he can heal (like the wombo combos Sanji's so fond of) he can be taken out with relative ease, king and queen showed us that
The irony 😂
Thank you! So many Sanji-Tards think just bcos he beat some YC2 he’s now stronger than every single YC1 & equal to Zoro💀
The issue with your argument, is where you think that King can do damage to Sanji. Him clashing with Zoro was not an ap feat, it was a strength feat, where he physically overpowered Zoro, but didn’t do any damage. This COULD maybe hurt Sanji, but not NEARLY as much as Diablo or Ifrit Jambe would hurt King. King’s fighting style revolves around turning his flame on and off, that was shown even before Zoro could hurt him. Sanji was much faster than Zoro even before even before awakening. King would have to stay in flame on the entire fight here, but that’s just not in character and had he done that against Zoro he realistically would’ve won, since they both knew King would take far less damage in flame on compared to off, and KOH would run out of Zoro, making King the winner.
So not even using the narrative of Sanji being closely relative to Zoro, nor the Egghead feats, just based off the Wano feats alone, Sanji more than likely would defeat King. Neither can damage the other, but King cannot do nearly as much damage as Sanji, and that’s amplified with the fact that King has on and off, whereas Sanji has it all the time. The time limit isn’t nearly an issue since Sanji at the time had been fighting for a LONG time using raid suit, taking on King and Queen, getting punched up by Black Maria without his haki defense, and fighting Queen. Sanji had no rest the whole arc, so that played a much bigger factor than his Germa power ups.
The problem is Sanji doesn’t seem to have ANYTHING close to KOH acoc zoro,so flames on king won’t take enough significant damage
it’ll take a while but with king’s flames being as hot as magma,king should win
As for Sanji vs seraphim,Sanji bruised their chin with a disable jambe hit,HOWEVER king’s Alan devil fruit gives him another level of defence meaning he should be able to devour even Ifrit jambe kicks
There's no proof that Acoc damages lunarians. And zoro only says that king was scared of what he could potentially do. No lunarian was ever hit by Acoc since their introduction. It's possible that zoro could have damaged king but we just don't know fo sure. In egghead zoro also says to luffy and the others that the only way to damage lunarians is to hit them when their flames are off, if Acoc worked surely he would have used koh. That doesn't counter your argument because ifrit wouldn't realistically scare king to the same extent as koh but king already used his flame off mode multiple times before zoro unlocked koh so your point doesn't really make sense from my point of view.
King is not an idiot he can scale his own durability this is like arguing I wouldn’t be damaged by a punch without a vest because technically I was never hit without the vest. If I directly indicate I would take damage it’s obv I would prob take damage. Also zoro saying that in that scene is because zoro isn’t all out and nobody in that room plans on going all out . By this logic the fights would be way more serious but every body is chill for a reason . It would also make no sense that the lunarians are extinct. On top of the fact that g5 luffy destroyed lucci but zoro said luci isn’t even close to luffy to the point luffy should have to take him out. Zoro is scaling based on haki and he knows nobody in that room (including luffy) is planning to actually try so if they aren’t the seraphim are invincible . Zoro knows luffy wasn’t serious vs lucci and no one in that room is going to be serious vs the seraphim.
@@gsphil414 It wouldn't make sense for them to hold back if they could end the fight quickly, also luffy doesn't even need to go all out to use Acoc.
@@lilsam6434 they are trolling so it would if the seraphim were actually strong it would be way more serious . Also yeah he doesn’t he and zoro can manage how much acoc they use but they don’t take the seraphim that serious.
@@gsphil414 They were clearly annoyed by the fact that they weren't able to damage the seraphims. And, again, they would be stupid not to get rid of the seraphims as quickly as possible. Them "trolling" is your headcanon.
@@lilsam6434 so your essentially saying all the seraphim> king also again annoyance doesn’t mean serious nobody in that room takes them serious. These are the same seraphim who got their eyes rolled back by a Zeus attack and scratches on them from sanji diable attacks g5 is destroying them .
This is not even a debate Sanji literally counter King in a fight, flame on he cannot touch Sanji and why you think Sanji would waste stamina attacking King if he know it don't work. And if King getting out speed by sanji, in-character he will definitely turn off his flame try to catch Sanji and in that case he will still get speed blitz badly with a wombo combo of ifrit jambe. Sanji will send him to another island, this lizard getting cook
King wouldnt turn off his flame because he knows sanji couldnt do much with the flame on.
But, king wouldnt be able to do much to sanji either due to his germa gene. His body is very hard and could instant rocover.
Sanji wouldnt do vanishing speed while king flame's on because he knows it wouldnt damage king and to reserve stamina.
The fight is going to be both using normal speed. Sanji's normal speed is faster than king. But, sanji still couldnt hurt king flame on. King could hurt sanji but sanji would recover instantly. This is like ryuma vs zoro all over again. Both pretty much at the same level and abilities.
The fight is gonna be too long unless they both use their strongest attack on the get go.
Both use fire attack BUT the only difference is sanji's beoef shot is much hotter than king's emporio flame. In fact, sanji's blue flame is hotter than akainu's magma. Akainu's magma could melt through people's limbs and faces so easily. Imagine something hotter than that.
So, imo sanji's beoef shot would be stronger than king's emporio flame. So, both are hurt after exchanging attacks.
At this point, king realizes sanji could hurt him even with flame on. Sanji also realizes he could hurt king with beoef shot. He would do another beoef shot on king. But, king wouldnt let him. Now, this has become a battle of endurance and we know sanji's endurance is higher than king.
King would turn his flame off, vanish and launch barrages of attacks to sanji. Sanji also use vanishing speed to dodge. He would get hit by some, dodges some.
Sanji's getting weaker but king's flame off attacks arent as strong as flame on. Sanjiwould be able to endure them but dodging alone would hurt him more. So, sanji would launch barrages of ifrit jambe attacks and neutralizes all of king's attacks. King realizes he's about to get hit and back to flame on and launches another emporio flame.
At this point, sanji is hurt more than king. Both exchanges their strongest attacks again. In the end, sanji is severely injured but king is defeated.
Sanji wins because of his endurance.
Sanji Midd diffs 🥱
*Gets
L take L video
Here's a better one with better reasoning
"Sanji vs king is completely one sided "
By- Restless gambler
I don't care if sanji loses or wins to king but the reasoning in this video is L too many points are left out just to make sure sanji loses.
As i said earlier I don't care if sanji looses or wins a fight but in this case i know that he is gonna win against king
People don't understand that sanji and are the same... Germa used DNA king spiece to make themselves invinsible....the even did some advanvements cause can automatically heal himself when injured. Unlike King he doesn't have to sacrifise his durability when he is on attacking mode...
So Sanji will win cause at some point king attack sanji and his defence will be weakened... Again sanji unlike others he doesn't like blocking direct blows he dodges unless is necessary, so he won't get tired
Sanji. Cuz he’s a main character lmao
not a fair fight... describes a pretty fair fight.
😭😭😭
Gotta get those clicks
You left out one of Sanji’s best abilities, trash talking. He would have challenged Kings ego making him turn off his flames to fight. Many of the fights in one piece are about people egos and underestimation. Good job on the breakdown tho.
Because he's done this before🙂?
As a sanji fan who've been defending him like crazy and still will to disrespect against him. Sanji need more feats to confidently say he would beat king. I mean oda f**ked up every scaling related to sanji, he gives everything to zoro and make's zoro's opponents be relative to sanji and make him look like he'll lose, using him as a hypetool.
Hoping we will get confirmation about sanji really destroyed s-shark's arm with flames on, and good AP, durability(other than tanking no named s-sharks punch) l feats against saturn or kizaru.
And if oda still f**ks up sanji's scaling in an arc of signifance to science(which sanji is moulded with), I'mma only open my mouth after final battle.
We start the fight and Sanji disappears….
W
Sanji couldn't even Solo Doffy. Queen wasn't a legitimate combatant even Chopper was getting hits in
what the hell? You really think someone who was defeated by luffy before he even fought Katakuri is stronger than Sanji whose speed is way superior to snakeman luffy and attack can send queen flying away? Sanji easily beats Doffy.
You're video is treating ACOC being the be all end all. Whilst ignoring that sanji wasn't even using ifrit against the seraphim yet was still giving them more trouble than the rest of the crew were. Can't agree with your overall assessment, especially when you assuming sanji can't keep up vanishing speed for a long time despite it never being confiremd directly. Also not even accounting for his exoskeleton qnd armemant giving him durability that has literally been compared to a lunarians.
Literally appeals to nobody 😂😂. You're just restating what was pretty much already told to us verbatim. The minority who disagrees isn't gonna be swayed since you provided no new information that refutes their current reasoning.
Bro keeping sanji fans and zoro fans humble. 😂
Overall I agree, but if Sanji were to ever get conq coating this would be a one sided fight imo
people with will of king gets conq not every one 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank God you dobt write op
Same goes to king as well bro if he gets conquers battle is one sided
That's just headcanon. Zoro can't deal damage to flame on King at all
King thought otherwise
@@zagessj There is literally zero manga panels where Zoro deal damage to Flame on King
@@justframe9210 King was worried Zoro could damage him in flame on though. Regardless if Zoro can actually damage flame on King, Sanji's ap is much weaker than Zoro's so King wouldn't worry about it anyways.
@@justframe9210 the most annoying one piece head cannon is that lunarians can’t be damaged with their flames on “best durability in the verse “. So much to disprove it.
@@gsphil414Fr lol 😂
Down playing sanji low key
If I could kiss you I would
No homo
King underrated fr
Sanji will beat King every fuckin time.
Sanji outspeed King and is very durable.
And honestly King didn't demonstrate great AP able to take down Sanji. However Ifrit Jambe can put down King.
The senseless meat riding is crazy
@@baonemogomotsi7138 Well I really don't see King beating Sanji.
@@donrog5035That's fair, but claiming that King loses every time is crazy considering he's more durable, has better stamina, and has better AP. His flames were compared to magma, which i OP's highest AP, while he took blows from KOH Zoro, whose Haki surpassed his rooftop version, many times. King is clearly superior.
@@baonemogomotsi7138 He isn't that more durable than Sanji. As for AP , well He did nothing that put his AP above ifrit jambe. Blue flame are hotter than Magma.
As for haki , what haki feat does King have ?
You do understand that King is superior to Sanji in everything except for speed
Sanji but extreme diff 👌
🧢
@@haremking7256 nah
you have no legs to stand on they already clashed king won@@dsw-2898
Sanji got no advanced haki no conquers haki he loses mid diff he's just fast
You really d riding Sanji ,and why are you guys overrating his combat speed ?!
💀
Tf you mean overrating? In all fairness zage kept his speed reasonable. If we're dead serious here it's surprisingly reasonable and sound to argue ifrit janbe sanji can blitz flames of king yet zage chose the more calm argument and instead he said that sanji's "vanishing speed" is the only way he can blitz
@@supershenron9168 he only perception blitz queen not kaido ,not big mom or any competent fighter ... hence overrated combat speed
@@supershenron9168 the fact this ninja is saying it's a battle of attrition, whereas king has better combat speed, ap ,stamina, skill and durability but it's going to a hard fought fight and sanji attacks are not equal nor will ever be close to a conqueror coating attack
@@powerscallingfiend queen scales to king(don't even bullshit on this everything points to queen and king being very similar in power) and king held his own vs KOH Zoro who is stronger than rooftop ashura Zoro.
let me guess... You'll have Zoro's opponent winning this fight 😒
You want him to lie do that your boyfriend wins
Durability tesr sanji can take the cake the exo skeletonis too much too handle😂😂😂😂
Damaging kaido its not a (real) feat bz he let other to dmg him. Even kinemon damaged kaido
Sanji don't have conquer he not beating king and Zoro hit way harder then Sanji queen is soft ASF Sanji not beating king
Wanji🗣
Okey sanji cant beat king
But can king beat sanji?
Huh?
*L*
Wanji > Wing
*High-diff*
King > Katakuri > fraudji
I got sanji
Yeah, king wins
Bro Sanji can't even beat King in flame off mode.
Idk about that one 😂
Sanji's AP isn't anything to sneeze at he damaged hybrid queen who himself stated without kings lunarian DNA he wouldn't be stronger than queen so it's fair to say flames off kings durability is as weak if not weaker than hybrid queen who sanji absolutely obliterated in 9 hits.
So sure it ain't king of hell Zoro level but it's still a threat
@@supershenron9168 What you smoking on bro? Flame Off King went up against KOH Zoro. Sanji AP is no way remotely close to KOH Zoro.
@@worldbosspf1 they are overrating sanji to oblivion, this shouldn't be a debate but they make it one lol
Finally, a TH-camr with common sense. Restless Gambler ignored all the points you mentioned and Just made a headcanon $tupid scenario about how the fight would go.
Chill on the Gambler
Restless gambler didn't just make up a scenario so sanji wins he used his own interpretation of how sanji's speed works. While zage goes of how in the manga sanji seems tired or drained after extended use of his "vanishing speed" restless gambler instead believes the "vanishing speed" is just his actual speed when he's awakened and his seemingly drained attitude was because he's been fighting for ages before the queen fight.
Both of these are valid interpretations that completely changed the outcome of the fight.
@@supershenron9168
All of that just because you failed to realize that it was flat out stated that being in speed mode drains his stamina.
Restless Gambler did make up scenarios. He didn't even show the panel or even talk about the fact that Queen stated being in speed mode drains his stamina. And just like you, he also completely ignored that Queen did tag Sanji several times even after the awakening. Which is more evidence that the speed mode isn't his regular speed and he needs to tap into that speed. If that was Sanji's regular speed, Queen would've never been able to tag Sanji at all but Queen literally caught him mid air and slammed him into the wall.
Wage even showed another example in this video. Sanji could completely blitz Oven in a particular moment but Couldn't blitz someone weaker than Oven.
Restless Gambler acted as if King without his flames is some type of one tap punching bag and Sanji one taps him as soon as he puts the flame off. That's bull$hit cause King even without the flames is as durable as Queen cause both are ancient zoan and I'd actually argue that King has better durability.
Now, keep in mind that Sanji needed 9 named ifrit kicks to finally beat Queen who was already very worn out and damaged by that point.
Restless Gambler was also $tupid enough to think King would put his flames off. King only put his flames off against Zoro cause Zoro made King feel threatened with his advanced conquerors. Sanji cannot scare him the same way. King did put his flames off against pre-Acoc Zoro but only for brief instances that aren't considerable at all. And that $tupid TH-camr used those inconsiderable brief moments as to why King would put his flames off in the entire@$$ fight for no damn reason.
He also ignored that Sanji only went in speed mode to counter Queen's invisibility. He has no reason to go speed mode on King. He can't counter King's durability like that. He'd Just waste his stamina like that.
Restless Gambler is one of those Sanji fanboys that think Sanji blitzes all the YC1 just because he blitzed a bum named Queen.
His Marco vs Sanji scenario was even dum6er. He said Sanji would just keep blitzing Marco and beating the $hit out of him from all directions until Marco runs out of stamina. Again, completely ignoring that Sanji would be the one losing stamina and Marco is someone who kept up with Kizaru. If Kizaru wasn't able to blitz him that bad, how tf would Sanji do it?
@@Dracule18 kizaru is not serious vs Marco
@the-meat-battles
I don't think blue flames are hotter than magma in One Piece. Oda has clearly emphasized magma to be the hottest form of fire. Akainu could casually pierce through WB's body but Sanji couldn’t do the same with Queen. Big Mom and Kaido, the most durable beings in the series were both thrown into magma.
if you want people too subscribe too you you got too earn it. remain consistent on your uploads and it will happen naturally over time. when people ask me too subscribe i feel inclined not to. all the people i am subscribed too never asked me. this is the same for a large portion of the viewer base.