Nice job. Two and a half minutes and done! So many people would have drug that information out in a fifteen minute blabber fest just to hear themselves talk. Thank you!
I LOVE this video, straight to the point, no bullshit, no decorative talking, no intros, no endings, no background music, etc... 100% to the point. I wish ALL videos were like this. And about the C172 operating cost: thank you! That gave me a better idea about the implications of getting a airplane.
This proves that GA, especially in the United States, is not the “rich mans sport” they claim it is. $7 500 is not bad for most middle class considering they handle their money right. Some people could save over $1000 a year by not eating out, or only buy an older Toyota for $5 000 versus the newest model for over $30 000. If you set your priorities on flying and aircraft ownership it is definitely possible for many people.
This is a good compilation of 'costs you know', but, as I found out in my ownership experiences, there are significant costs with things you can't plan, such as avionics that quit, new AD's or Service Bulletins, squawks to be corrected in an annual inspection, early failures of engine components, etc.
Exactly. I bought a 1972 Yamaha R5 that I compare to these old 70's Cessna's. Even though it was a great restoration, essentially everything broke in 500 miles including the frame. I could say how cheap it is by rattling off the fact that it's less than $100 to register per year and $100 to insure per year, but all the little parts I have had to buy for it and the time spent wrenching on it in the garage make it a significantly more expensive toy.
So $75 per hour when used 100 hours per year. Great analysis. Back 28 years ago I was lucky enough to buy a hangar at the airport. Over the years that hangar has appreciated by $50K. My single engine experimental only takes up half the hangar and I rent the other half to an RV4 (that pays my property tax and condo fees). So I have no hangar expenses! If you build your own experimental and get the Repairman Cert then your annual costs drop way down also. Get your experimental done! Great job on the video.
Hi! Still slowly but surely working on the Sonex. I am definitely going to get the Repairman Cert. You are right, it can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year. Glad your hangar situation worked out so well for you. I am number 74 on the hangar list at my airport and much higher numbers at surrounding airports. -Dan
FlyMeAirplane in the non experimental GA world, the consideration of resale, and what owner maintained does to an aircrafts history, should be considered before going that route.
@@JayLupe Have a friend I grew up with who's parents owned/owns 400+ acres, and had a 4 person prop plane kept in a hangar they built (I only went up once with my friend and his grandpa). They had a makeshift runway in a grassy field on their farm that ran pretty close (within 2-300yards) of their house. I would imagine that was the cheapest most efficient option available because that's just the way they were. Although they had money, you would never have guessed it from the vehicles they drove the clothes they wore or the way they lived. Good people.
Thanks! Also, since it is from 1965, almost all of the depreciation is gone. Some aircraft of this era appreciate in value. It is easier to sleep in an RV though ;) -Dan
I wish I would have never bought my RV :/.... should have bought a plane instead, but we had different plans back then :,( now I wish someone would trade a plane for my RV! haha
Will Fisher because maybe the other loans require you to pay 30% more and require it to be paid in 10 years or else huge fees are tacked on? with interest only you can pay it off next month if you have the money? Just guessing I have no idea
(DEEP BREATH) this is the only part that bothered me, an interest only loan is too easy to keep floating month to month on the interest insisting that you'll catch up later. it would take no time at all to be way upside down in the loan. the more realistic approach is to plan on paying a good chunk down (10% perhaps) and then finance the note on a long term. a $40,000 airplane would cost little more than a new pickup truck per month as far as paying the note, but depending on the cost of the aircraft, some lenders will go for loan terms in the 20+ year range. depending on the term of the loan however the monthly cost of the aircraft would still be less than $300/month on the note alone. other fixed costs remaining the same. also, he has gone the cheap route with tie down only, best protection for the investment is to hangar it, hangar rent varies from place to place but in a small rural airport you're looking at about $100-150 a month, all the other fixed costs remaining the same. one mistake a lot of owners make is not paying that hourly amount for each hour they fly, seriously... just open a checking account, put $2,000 in it as a starting point, and then deposit $20-30 into the account for every hour flown. when an annual ends up costing a little more than planned or an alternator takes a dump, you'll be glad you had this stash.
This is the BEST video on TH-cam LOL. No BS and to the point. I got all of the information I needed out of it and left with a smile on my face knowing that I could afford to own a plane. THANK YOU!!!
Good explanation, and its no wonder that the era of Private aviation is a thing of the past. I remember growing up, I was such an aircraft (and model airplane) enthusiast. I wrote all the aircraft companies to get brochures of their complete line of private/corporate aircraft and made up a scrap book with all the pictures and prices. As I recall, a BRAND NEW Cessna 172 (not the more expensive Skyhawk version) cost $9,995.00 back then. A Cessna 150 was $6,995.00. A Piper Colt was $5,995.00. You could buy a used Aeronca or Taylorcraft for less than $3000, WITH a current 'annual'. Then came Ultralights ... which blossomed for a short time, until the ABC "Hugh Downs" Hit Piece on them basically killed that fledgling industry. Of course, law suits and Insurance companies were there to shovel dirt over the (now dead) Private aircraft industry. When I was 11 or 12 yrs old, I could identify any aircraft flying over head ... just by the sound of its engine (Continentals & Lycomings sound different, and the props they used added subtle nuances which a trained ear could pick up. Of course, the Beechcraft Super 18 had its own special unmistakable sound, with those twin radials). At that age/time, I was sure that I'd own some kind of aircraft when I 'grew up' .. and so did about every adult who knew me, since it was all I ever talked about. I even took a few Private Pilot lessons while in H.S., but soon discovered that at $35-$40/hour, my paper route earnings were insufficient. During those days, a 'private aircraft' of some kind usually flew by (over head) about every 3 to 5 minutes. Now, I rarely ever see a private aircraft in the sky. Well, at least I have some fond memories. RIP Private Aviation ... it was good to know you when you were thriving.
I appreciate different issues in UK (plus video couple of years old)but the way you explained the process makes sense and suddenly I’ve realised I could buy and operate my own....thank you
Lol, it was exactly opposite for me. It's not that bad looking at the costs he was talking about. But repairs n such could potentailly make it not that great anymore
I know people with car loans that cost more than the total cost of ownership of that plane per year. Not cheap, but I gave up having a second vehicle and motorcycle. I drive a beater now and dont really care. Had to make to sacrifices to get what I really want. I enjoy being in my plane far more than in my car, I do miss my bike though.
@@Vitas993 this is the rock bottom of owning a very, very old C-172 which is probably overdue for a TBO. And he's likely basing it at some rural class-E strip... Getting a less than 30 years old Cessna in any real city will cost much more than that
@@suzukirider9030 yes I'm aware of that. But the video gives hope that it's possible to own an aircraft while not being rich. However that might not be the best idea lol
Thank you. When considering buying a used airplane, some tend to underestimate the yearly cost. It is often more profitable to rent or lease at a fixed amount per min.
Good info and it proves that if you own it you need to use it to make sense of the ownership. Fly it 1 hour per year and it costs $3540/hr. Fly it 25 hours per year and it costs $180/hr. Fly it 50 hours per year and it costs $110/hr. Fly it 100 hours per year and it costs $75/hr. Fly it 150 hours per year and it costs $63/hr.
Solid Info and easy to follow the delivery. Great job breaking all those parts down and showing how to plan ahead for ongoing future costs to keep it going. GOOD WORK!!
I don't even have a job, or food. But I got internet and this video of owning a plane and how much money people waste in shit that doesn't get them anywhere. Love it.
Thanks for the info....sadly these costs are one of the major reasons that general aviation is in decline, and new GA aircraft production is almost non existent. Aircraft hold their value very well and may appreciate to help offset some of the running costs but in the end it is still one of the most expensive hobbies you can have. I quit flying years ago because the cost to rent was about $160+ an hour and even though it was a new 172, apart from the instruments it was really no different than any other 172 available. I am convinced that the only way to enjoy flying on somewhat of a realistic budget is to build or purchase an experimental. The performance for the amount spent is superior to most available GA aircraft and the ability to do your own maintenance and inspections is a huge bonus.
Beautiful - I love how succinct, and useful this was. This could be a model for anyone making videos that explain something, even as complex as aircraft ownership considerations. Well done.
You are too kind. I make the type of video I would want to watch. Simple, succinct, and straight to the point, no need for music or fancy editing. -Dan
for an aircraft, I think an interest only loan makes sense. Because really, you are using it with the intention of selling it at a future date, and so who cares if you aren't building equity, it will probably go up in value and even if it stays flat, your operating costs are still less than renting.
I would be interested to know if there are also tax benefits to your interest payments, can you write those off if you are using the aircraft to travel for business?
Wow Thank you so much, your a Good Teacher, Thank you for the information that is a lot of money, I will definitely keep it in mind from Joey in Honolulu , Hawaii , Aloha 😎
7 Months later would you say your cost estimates are still holding true? Have there been any surprises? Also, what finance company did you end up choosing?
Hi Travis. Great questions. I'll do a video on that soon. Generally, I have flown it less than I thought I would and I have been very lucky that there are no unexpected repairs so far. -Dan (I used a small bank in Northern Michigan called "Chemical Bank".)
Hi, good video. Just curious, I'm not a pilot yet, you mentioned that you're only going to fly 100 hours per year. That seems pretty low like 8.3 hrs per month, why so low? I'd think it might be better to rent or be in a club and you wouldn't have all those expenses? Thanks, Mark.
Hi Mark, Fantastic question. First, I really only have the weekends as an option to fly. Let's call it 50 weekends a year, that would be 2 hours a weekend. If half of my weekends already are booked, it would be 4 hours a weekend. I am a pretty realistic guy, and although I would love to fly 300+ hours a year, it is not conducive to my schedule. Second, to rent a 172 where I am costs $125/hour. I am actually "saving" $50/hour by flying my own plane. If I fly 200 hours a year, I will save almost $70/hour. Plus it is fun to have your own plane. You can organize it the way you want, you can know it much better than any plane you rent, and there is a non-tangible satisfaction of owning your own aircraft. I hope that helps -Dan
Hi Pete. I completely agree. I have had the plane 6 months and have flown about 70 hours, but I have a lot of free time that is going to be tied up in the near future. -Dan
Guess you know you have to define "difficut." Kinda don't know what that means exactly. The info WAS an excellent start point. If you cross check that with other similar aircraft, you're on point. Good job helping the uneducated be knowledgeable.
Joining this party late but figured I'd elaborate on what Pete Kuhns was saying - its hard to fly 100 hours a year because that means 2 hours EVERY week. Think about weeks where you're just not going to be able to fly (busy at work, out of town engagements that you can't get to with your plane feasibly, bad weather, etc etc). It seems like an easy number to hit and then you realize you've gone an entire month without flying. For people who can't find an excuse to get a $200 hamburger (not $100 anymore, thanks inflation!) every single week, that fixed cost starts to swamp the variable costs and your $40 an hour fixed costs turn into $80 an hour, and at that point you might as well find an FBO to fly out of. In other words - buying a plane and not finding the time to fly it is not a good investment. However, if you're retired, live in a place with good weather (California, Texas, etc) and not upstate NY like me, and have the money from your retirement, owning a plane is certainly cheaper than renting 75+ hour a year.
Without a doubt the best, simplest and straightforward video on this topic available on TH-cam. Thank you sir! I'm currently shopping for my first aircraft .
Renting an aircraft costs between 120$ an 180$/hour If he flies 100h/year it costs him 75$/h If he flies 50h it will cost him 110$/h So no, he would have to fly less than 50h/y to make it cheaper to rent an aircraft.
This is exactly what I'm looking for when I Google the cost of anything... Thank you for the simplified breakdown. Of course this is you and your plane but it's a great example and at least a good starting point.
Hey Dan. Very well done. Quick and concise. Quite a few people who watch my channel asked me to make a video similar to this, in fact four of them linked your video in the messages I got! Three out of the four were confused by the interest only loan structure. I talked about it briefly in my video to try and clarify it for them. It can be a bit misleading when talking about ownership costs to use an interest only loan. Buying an airplane with an interest only loan is basically renting the airplane from the bank every month, and costs significantly less than buying the airplane outright, or using a traditional aircraft loan structure. Most people who want to buy an airplane intend to purchase it with the idea of owning it outright down the road, if not immediately, so while the cost of capital for most people will probably be similar to yours, the principal will totally change the overall payment. There are a million different ways to calculate your operating costs, which is why it can be so hard to explain to others what it really costs to own an airplane. Engine reserves are a great example. Some people budget their ownership costs with reserves, some don't, but either way it changes the perception of cost quite a bit. I'm hoping that people like us creating content like these videos will inspire other aircraft owners to do the same. A wealth of information regarding ownership costs for different aircraft would be a tremendous resource for those in the market for an airplane. I've subscribed, and can't wait to see more of your stuff. Keep it up!
Thanks for your comment. I am glad you also made a video about aircraft costs. I did not intend to mislead; my goal was to share my current operating costs based on my personal financial preferences and aircraft usage. There are many ways to finance and different pilots have different goals for their ownership. I totally agree that the more pilots who share how they finance their airplanes the better, so that new pilots can understand that there's a variety of ways to finance and afford to fly! I hope we can both inspire our audiences to get into aviation. -Dan
Hi Jason. I'm glad it was helpful. If you want to take up flying, I strongly encourage it, you meet so many great people and business contacts too. -Dan
3 years later I’m watching this video.. cool thing is, I’m only about 2-3 years out to being able to afford something like this without blinking an eye and I couldn’t be more excited 🙏🏼
At one point I considered purchasing a 30 year old Piper Arrow. But after factoring the fixed costs, and the uncertainty how frequently I'd be able to use it, I thought it better to join a club which owned a Piper Warrior II. I'm happy I made the choice. I'm allotted just enough of the plane's time to satisfy my needs, and we are able to upgrade the avionics and maintain the engine and airframe without incurring a huge per person hit. Now that I'm reaching the age where I should stop flying solo, I can sell my membership without the hassle of marketing the plane. I may even make a few bucks due to the plane's appreciation. The important thing about joining a club is to make sure that all of the members are equally committed to investing in the plane, and flying it with care.
Very informative, thank you. As a new PPL I was interested in hearing some figures as I hope to own a 172 soon. You just got a new sub and keep up the great content.
Thanks for that information Clear, concise, to the point and unique. Been looking for this information a long time ago. But Find no one before that really knows what they're talking about. Thanks.
I used an interest only loan to assign value to the money being used for the plane. I sold the plane a year later for a little more than I bought it for. It is the purchasers choice to buy it cash, or put a loan on it. -Dan
Thank you for sharing the breakdown. I especially like that you bought the older model with the O300-D. I've been looking at these models and this video and the predecessor were very helpful in helping to confirm that I'm heading in the right direction.
You can't charge for use or rent it out without changing the type of laws that apply to it. I ended up selling the plane a few months ago after my daughter was born and I didn't have time to fly it. I sold it for more than I paid for it and paid off the loan. -Dan
Wow, man tahnks for such a good video! Subscribed ) If your other vids are half that informative and on spot - you're great! The breakdown of cost to final 75$\hour\to own vs normal 100-130\to rent may be a decision maker for some people! ty again! cheerz
this is what I want in a youtube video. info and no bullshit. Thanks, man. Keep it up. Make more of these about a civilian pilot experience and things to look after. On the technical aspect try to avoid the wind next time you film. :D
You are True, and you can add the mechanical breakdown between annual inspection, not predictable unfortunately, like cylinder wear with low compression $$$, wheel change, faulty instruments $$$...Good video.
Nice job. Two and a half minutes and done! So many people would have drug that information out in a fifteen minute blabber fest just to hear themselves talk. Thank you!
Thanks Tim, I don't like to waste my time or others. Just the facts. -Dan
Agreed!!!
@@danielolivermcelroy8320 so basically I can't afford one lol. Guess will keep renting then.
@@danielolivermcelroy8320 Awesome break down of real cost, thanks for all the hard work you put into this!
Daniel Oliver McElroy very nice video. My son is taking lessons. I think we’ll stick to renting.
Finally someone who breaks it down all the way to the oil. This has really helped me
Thanks Adam! -Dan
You know it's going to cost a lot more than that...right?
very much to the point thank you for that.. no music or story line.. lol love it
You are quite welcome. I don't like videos that have too much "fluff" in them. Just the facts. -Dan
I LOVE this video, straight to the point, no bullshit, no decorative talking, no intros, no endings, no background music, etc... 100% to the point. I wish ALL videos were like this. And about the C172 operating cost: thank you! That gave me a better idea about the implications of getting a airplane.
for older 172's.... these numbers are still pretty accurate today (in late 2019). I own a 1964 E model 172 :)
This proves that GA, especially in the United States, is not the “rich mans sport” they claim it is. $7 500 is not bad for most middle class considering they handle their money right. Some people could save over $1000 a year by not eating out, or only buy an older Toyota for $5 000 versus the newest model for over $30 000. If you set your priorities on flying and aircraft ownership it is definitely possible for many people.
Well said Even, I wanted to do this video to show that. -Dan
But overall it's still easier if you're wealthy, and you have to be if your plane is a P-51 Mustang (of course that's a different animal).
Well said 💪🏻
Spot on
hold on a second have you seen the prices of old tacomas they are no where near cheap lol
This is a good compilation of 'costs you know', but, as I found out in my ownership experiences, there are significant costs with things you can't plan, such as avionics that quit, new AD's or Service Bulletins, squawks to be corrected in an annual inspection, early failures of engine components, etc.
Exactly. I bought a 1972 Yamaha R5 that I compare to these old 70's Cessna's. Even though it was a great restoration, essentially everything broke in 500 miles including the frame. I could say how cheap it is by rattling off the fact that it's less than $100 to register per year and $100 to insure per year, but all the little parts I have had to buy for it and the time spent wrenching on it in the garage make it a significantly more expensive toy.
@@mjodr Totally worth it though, AmIRite? :-)
@@RogerBarraud Yep!
So $75 per hour when used 100 hours per year. Great analysis. Back 28 years ago I was lucky enough to buy a hangar at the airport. Over the years that hangar has appreciated by $50K. My single engine experimental only takes up half the hangar and I rent the other half to an RV4 (that pays my property tax and condo fees). So I have no hangar expenses! If you build your own experimental and get the Repairman Cert then your annual costs drop way down also. Get your experimental done! Great job on the video.
Hi! Still slowly but surely working on the Sonex. I am definitely going to get the Repairman Cert. You are right, it can save hundreds if not thousands of dollars a year. Glad your hangar situation worked out so well for you. I am number 74 on the hangar list at my airport and much higher numbers at surrounding airports. -Dan
FlyMeAirplane in the non experimental GA world, the consideration of resale, and what owner maintained does to an aircrafts history, should be considered before going that route.
What if i buy like 20 acres of land and build a budget friendly small hangar(just enough space for the cessna)? Would it be alot cheaper like that?
????? Anybody?????
@@JayLupe Have a friend I grew up with who's parents owned/owns 400+ acres, and had a 4 person prop plane kept in a hangar they built (I only went up once with my friend and his grandpa). They had a makeshift runway in a grassy field on their farm that ran pretty close (within 2-300yards) of their house. I would imagine that was the cheapest most efficient option available because that's just the way they were. Although they had money, you would never have guessed it from the vehicles they drove the clothes they wore or the way they lived. Good people.
You blew through that "interest only" part pretty damn fast!
It costs more to own an average RV, and that's not even factoring in the massive depreciation of an RV. Thanks for the informative videos. Enjoy ....
Thanks! Also, since it is from 1965, almost all of the depreciation is gone. Some aircraft of this era appreciate in value. It is easier to sleep in an RV though ;) -Dan
stereopolice. ha! first thought was you were referring to a Vans RV lol.
I wish I would have never bought my RV :/.... should have bought a plane instead, but we had different plans back then :,( now I wish someone would trade a plane for my RV! haha
Hey, but you can live in an RV! I suppose you could do that with a Cessna too tho...
This is very confusing when RV is also a range of planes by Vans ^^
WOW! litteraly this video answered all my quiestions in two minuets! You've earned a sub!
thank you for sharing, that was very informative!
Hi Brian, you are most welcome. I have had several people ask and I wanted to be open about the numbers, but not crass. -Dan
So what do you when you fly? Why didn't you select a plane that an do flips and rolls instead?
Interest only loan? Why would you get an interest only loan?!
Will Fisher because maybe the other loans require you to pay 30% more and require it to be paid in 10 years or else huge fees are tacked on?
with interest only you can pay it off next month if you have the money?
Just guessing I have no idea
(DEEP BREATH) this is the only part that bothered me, an interest only loan is too easy to keep floating month to month on the interest insisting that you'll catch up later. it would take no time at all to be way upside down in the loan. the more realistic approach is to plan on paying a good chunk down (10% perhaps) and then finance the note on a long term. a $40,000 airplane would cost little more than a new pickup truck per month as far as paying the note, but depending on the cost of the aircraft, some lenders will go for loan terms in the 20+ year range. depending on the term of the loan however the monthly cost of the aircraft would still be less than $300/month on the note alone. other fixed costs remaining the same. also, he has gone the cheap route with tie down only, best protection for the investment is to hangar it, hangar rent varies from place to place but in a small rural airport you're looking at about $100-150 a month, all the other fixed costs remaining the same. one mistake a lot of owners make is not paying that hourly amount for each hour they fly, seriously... just open a checking account, put $2,000 in it as a starting point, and then deposit $20-30 into the account for every hour flown. when an annual ends up costing a little more than planned or an alternator takes a dump, you'll be glad you had this stash.
This is the BEST video on TH-cam LOL. No BS and to the point. I got all of the information I needed out of it and left with a smile on my face knowing that I could afford to own a plane. THANK YOU!!!
In 2001 I obtained my PPL in a 1958 Cessna 172. Great, very stable and easy to fly aircraft.
Nice and simple. That's why I like it. -Dan
No crap. It’s a trainer aircraft. Lol
Good explanation, and its no wonder that the era of Private aviation is a thing of the past. I remember growing up, I was such an aircraft (and model airplane) enthusiast. I wrote all the aircraft companies to get brochures of their complete line of private/corporate aircraft and made up a scrap book with all the pictures and prices. As I recall, a BRAND NEW Cessna 172 (not the more expensive Skyhawk version) cost $9,995.00 back then. A Cessna 150 was $6,995.00. A Piper Colt was $5,995.00. You could buy a used Aeronca or Taylorcraft for less than $3000, WITH a current 'annual'. Then came Ultralights ... which blossomed for a short time, until the ABC "Hugh Downs" Hit Piece on them basically killed that fledgling industry. Of course, law suits and Insurance companies were there to shovel dirt over the (now dead) Private aircraft industry. When I was 11 or 12 yrs old, I could identify any aircraft flying over head ... just by the sound of its engine (Continentals & Lycomings sound different, and the props they used added subtle nuances which a trained ear could pick up. Of course, the Beechcraft Super 18 had its own special unmistakable sound, with those twin radials). At that age/time, I was sure that I'd own some kind of aircraft when I 'grew up' .. and so did about every adult who knew me, since it was all I ever talked about. I even took a few Private Pilot lessons while in H.S., but soon discovered that at $35-$40/hour, my paper route earnings were insufficient. During those days, a 'private aircraft' of some kind usually flew by (over head) about every 3 to 5 minutes. Now, I rarely ever see a private aircraft in the sky. Well, at least I have some fond memories. RIP Private Aviation ... it was good to know you when you were thriving.
On the money, literally! Thanks for the breakdown.
No problem. Enjoy! -Dan
I appreciate different issues in UK (plus video couple of years old)but the way you explained the process makes sense and suddenly I’ve realised I could buy and operate my own....thank you
Start of video: Hey, maybe I too can own an airplane.
End of video: Nope
Lol, it was exactly opposite for me. It's not that bad looking at the costs he was talking about. But repairs n such could potentailly make it not that great anymore
I know people with car loans that cost more than the total cost of ownership of that plane per year. Not cheap, but I gave up having a second vehicle and motorcycle. I drive a beater now and dont really care. Had to make to sacrifices to get what I really want. I enjoy being in my plane far more than in my car, I do miss my bike though.
@@Vitas993 this is the rock bottom of owning a very, very old C-172 which is probably overdue for a TBO. And he's likely basing it at some rural class-E strip...
Getting a less than 30 years old Cessna in any real city will cost much more than that
@@suzukirider9030 yes I'm aware of that. But the video gives hope that it's possible to own an aircraft while not being rich. However that might not be the best idea lol
Thank you. When considering buying a used airplane, some tend to underestimate the yearly cost. It is often more profitable to rent or lease at a fixed amount per min.
Good info and it proves that if you own it you need to use it to make sense of the ownership.
Fly it 1 hour per year and it costs $3540/hr.
Fly it 25 hours per year and it costs $180/hr.
Fly it 50 hours per year and it costs $110/hr.
Fly it 100 hours per year and it costs $75/hr.
Fly it 150 hours per year and it costs $63/hr.
Yes! It comes down to realistic understanding of how much you will use it. -Dan
Solid Info and easy to follow the delivery. Great job breaking all those parts down and showing how to plan ahead for ongoing future costs to keep it going. GOOD WORK!!
Thanks! -Dan
Informative and to the point, Thanks. Note: Being a member of a military flying club comes in a strong 2nd place.
Thanks for the note. I like flying clubs too. They are a great way to share the cost and keep the airplanes in tip top shape. -Dan
I don't even have a job, or food. But I got internet and this video of owning a plane and how much money people waste in shit that doesn't get them anywhere. Love it.
Thank you! Not a pilot, but always wondered what the cost were. Great overview.
You have been the only one that Answer that question clearly so thank you very much
You are most welcome Steven! I am glad I could bring some simple clarity to the subject. -Dan
Thanks for the info....sadly these costs are one of the major reasons that general aviation is in decline, and new GA aircraft production is almost non existent. Aircraft hold their value very well and may appreciate to help offset some of the running costs but in the end it is still one of the most expensive hobbies you can have. I quit flying years ago because the cost to rent was about $160+ an hour and even though it was a new 172, apart from the instruments it was really no different than any other 172 available. I am convinced that the only way to enjoy flying on somewhat of a realistic budget is to build or purchase an experimental. The performance for the amount spent is superior to most available GA aircraft and the ability to do your own maintenance and inspections is a huge bonus.
Completely agree with everything you said. That is why I am also building a Sonex so I can do my own maintenance on that some day too. -Dan
Thank you for that! The hourly annual break down and budgeting the major overhaul was very useful to me.
Thanks Lando! You are very welcome. -Dan
Outstanding information. Thank you Daniel.
Hi Jess, thank you very much! -Dan
I love it that you go to the facts and done. Great, because some people drag it along for 30 minutes. Thank you for the info.
I'm in the market for a Cessna 172 and this video was very helpful. How did you locate the aircraft you wanted to buy? Thank you.
Thanks for explaining in simple terms what your expenses are for your 172.
You are very welcome Jason. I am glad you got something out of it. -Dan
being able to fly- priceless
So many have been mislead about all the costs. Beautiful clear concise explanation. Thank you!
Thank you so much you did a great job ..answered a lot of questions we had
Thanks Ron! I am glad it was helpful! -Dan
Beautiful - I love how succinct, and useful this was. This could be a model for anyone making videos that explain something, even as complex as aircraft ownership considerations. Well done.
You are too kind. I make the type of video I would want to watch. Simple, succinct, and straight to the point, no need for music or fancy editing. -Dan
for an aircraft, I think an interest only loan makes sense. Because really, you are using it with the intention of selling it at a future date, and so who cares if you aren't building equity, it will probably go up in value and even if it stays flat, your operating costs are still less than renting.
I would be interested to know if there are also tax benefits to your interest payments, can you write those off if you are using the aircraft to travel for business?
Hi Josh. Excellent point, and the exact reason I did that. I am not trying to make money on this so there is no reason to try to build equity. -Dan
I am not writing this plane off so I can't speak to that. I do have a company, but I don't use this for business. -Dan
It's all about opportunity cost, if you are making more than the 3.5% interest your paying by investing that 38100$ somewhere else then your ahead
Josh Bascii why would it go up in value? I imagine it would depreciate like any type of vehicle
Short, sweet and lot's of pertinent info. Thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it! -Dan
Great vid and beautiful airplane. I never knew it could be so affordable to purchase a plane. Ugh. My wife is not going to like this!
Good luck with it! Remember that you can "fly her places." -Dan
Mine neither. 😅🤣
All info you need in a short video! No BS! Thumbs up!
Wow Thank you so much, your a Good Teacher, Thank you for the information that is a lot of money, I will definitely keep it in mind from Joey in Honolulu , Hawaii , Aloha 😎
Thanks Joey! You are too kind! -Dan
More and more I know about US, more affordable it seems. You guys are really lucky to have all these amenities at such low costs.
Yes. Even in Europe, you can double all these costs I quoted. -Dan
7 Months later would you say your cost estimates are still holding true? Have there been any surprises? Also, what finance company did you end up choosing?
Hi Travis. Great questions. I'll do a video on that soon. Generally, I have flown it less than I thought I would and I have been very lucky that there are no unexpected repairs so far. -Dan (I used a small bank in Northern Michigan called "Chemical Bank".)
Best way to explain...short , precise and with example.
Thanks! -Dan
Hi, good video. Just curious, I'm not a pilot yet, you mentioned that you're only going to fly 100 hours per year. That seems pretty low like 8.3 hrs per month, why so low? I'd think it might be better to rent or be in a club and you wouldn't have all those expenses? Thanks, Mark.
Hi Mark, Fantastic question. First, I really only have the weekends as an option to fly. Let's call it 50 weekends a year, that would be 2 hours a weekend. If half of my weekends already are booked, it would be 4 hours a weekend. I am a pretty realistic guy, and although I would love to fly 300+ hours a year, it is not conducive to my schedule. Second, to rent a 172 where I am costs $125/hour. I am actually "saving" $50/hour by flying my own plane. If I fly 200 hours a year, I will save almost $70/hour. Plus it is fun to have your own plane. You can organize it the way you want, you can know it much better than any plane you rent, and there is a non-tangible satisfaction of owning your own aircraft. I hope that helps -Dan
Straight to the point! No filler!
Glad you liked it! -Dan
Flying 100 hours per year is VERY difficult for many many folks... Just a heads up to the un-initiated...
Hi Pete. I completely agree. I have had the plane 6 months and have flown about 70 hours, but I have a lot of free time that is going to be tied up in the near future. -Dan
Daniel Oliver McElroy I fly almost 100 a month. But it’s my job so that doesn’t count😂
Guess you know you have to define "difficut." Kinda don't know what that means exactly. The info WAS an excellent start point. If you cross check that with other similar aircraft, you're on point. Good job helping the uneducated be knowledgeable.
Joining this party late but figured I'd elaborate on what Pete Kuhns was saying - its hard to fly 100 hours a year because that means 2 hours EVERY week. Think about weeks where you're just not going to be able to fly (busy at work, out of town engagements that you can't get to with your plane feasibly, bad weather, etc etc). It seems like an easy number to hit and then you realize you've gone an entire month without flying. For people who can't find an excuse to get a $200 hamburger (not $100 anymore, thanks inflation!) every single week, that fixed cost starts to swamp the variable costs and your $40 an hour fixed costs turn into $80 an hour, and at that point you might as well find an FBO to fly out of.
In other words - buying a plane and not finding the time to fly it is not a good investment. However, if you're retired, live in a place with good weather (California, Texas, etc) and not upstate NY like me, and have the money from your retirement, owning a plane is certainly cheaper than renting 75+ hour a year.
Without a doubt the best, simplest and straightforward video on this topic available on TH-cam. Thank you sir! I'm currently shopping for my first aircraft .
100 hrs. per year= 2 hrs. per wk.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to hire an aircraft?
Renting an aircraft costs between 120$ an 180$/hour
If he flies 100h/year it costs him 75$/h
If he flies 50h it will cost him 110$/h
So no, he would have to fly less than 50h/y to make it cheaper to rent an aircraft.
This is exactly what I'm looking for when I Google the cost of anything... Thank you for the simplified breakdown. Of course this is you and your plane but it's a great example and at least a good starting point.
thank you very much, this was very interesting!
You are very welcome. Happy Flying. -Dan
Hey Dan. Very well done. Quick and concise. Quite a few people who watch my channel asked me to make a video similar to this, in fact four of them linked your video in the messages I got! Three out of the four were confused by the interest only loan structure. I talked about it briefly in my video to try and clarify it for them. It can be a bit misleading when talking about ownership costs to use an interest only loan. Buying an airplane with an interest only loan is basically renting the airplane from the bank every month, and costs significantly less than buying the airplane outright, or using a traditional aircraft loan structure. Most people who want to buy an airplane intend to purchase it with the idea of owning it outright down the road, if not immediately, so while the cost of capital for most people will probably be similar to yours, the principal will totally change the overall payment. There are a million different ways to calculate your operating costs, which is why it can be so hard to explain to others what it really costs to own an airplane. Engine reserves are a great example. Some people budget their ownership costs with reserves, some don't, but either way it changes the perception of cost quite a bit. I'm hoping that people like us creating content like these videos will inspire other aircraft owners to do the same. A wealth of information regarding ownership costs for different aircraft would be a tremendous resource for those in the market for an airplane. I've subscribed, and can't wait to see more of your stuff. Keep it up!
Thanks for your comment. I am glad you also made a video about aircraft costs. I did not intend to mislead; my goal was to share my current operating costs based on my personal financial preferences and aircraft usage. There are many ways to finance and different pilots have different goals for their ownership. I totally agree that the more pilots who share how they finance their airplanes the better, so that new pilots can understand that there's a variety of ways to finance and afford to fly! I hope we can both inspire our audiences to get into aviation. -Dan
thank you daniel, very clearly explained, its the reason im a flight sims airman lol, altho I do fly for real in coventry uk, at £140 an hour.
Very nice, and happy flying! -Dan
How do you do it there so cheap? I tried there. Costs a lot
That's less than I assumed it would cost, and that's a big encouragement to me
Hi Jason. I'm glad it was helpful. If you want to take up flying, I strongly encourage it, you meet so many great people and business contacts too. -Dan
Granddad was right when he quipped "If if floats, flies or fucks - rent it."
The 3 Fs! ... hahah, my instructor would always say the same
Jeffry Gilbert anything that makes you happy is cheaper by the hour.
Dalton especially with the last one, rather to rent it, that's very true lol 😊
As you can see at least in one instance I ignored his warning.
Jeffry Gilbert haha the boat. Renting the other 2 tho
That was a pretty straight forward video. I had all the anwers I needed, thank you very much!
Very Good Thank!
Thanks for watching Richard! -Dan
Thank you for sharing this info. And the time to make it.. Very upfront, factual, and no not too scarey, just real.
Thanks Kev. I would rather be upfront and honest about what I am paying as many people don't have access to the true numbers. -Dan
If it flys, floats, or f***s, it's cheaper to rent.
BitBouncer $75 per hour is much cheaper than $150/hour.
Thanks for getting right to the point and being transparent with the numbers!
You are very welcome. Enjoy! -Dan
Thanks! Now I know I can't afford one on my current salary.
3 years later I’m watching this video.. cool thing is, I’m only about 2-3 years out to being able to afford something like this without blinking an eye and I couldn’t be more excited 🙏🏼
Great breakdown of costs. Interesting how you were able to squeeze all that into two and a half minutes.
Glad it was helpful! -Dan
"I should get my licence and get a Cessna! They aren't THAT expensive!"
*Watches Video, then cancels lessons*
Great video! You answer the question in a clear concise manner. AND the title is accurate. Rare on TH-cam.
At one point I considered purchasing a 30 year old Piper Arrow. But after factoring the fixed costs, and the uncertainty how frequently I'd be able to use it, I thought it better to join a club which owned a Piper Warrior II. I'm happy I made the choice. I'm allotted just enough of the plane's time to satisfy my needs, and we are able to upgrade the avionics and maintain the engine and airframe without incurring a huge per person hit. Now that I'm reaching the age where I should stop flying solo, I can sell my membership without the hassle of marketing the plane. I may even make a few bucks due to the plane's appreciation.
The important thing about joining a club is to make sure that all of the members are equally committed to investing in the plane, and flying it with care.
Great points Stephen. I'm glad it worked out well for you. Happy flying! -Dan
short, sweet and to the point. thanks man!
Very informative, thank you. As a new PPL I was interested in hearing some figures as I hope to own a 172 soon. You just got a new sub and keep up the great content.
Comprehensive and To the point.
this is very rare species of videos found on youtube.
Thank you
This was fantastic, and very educational. That is, now, I’m, again, considering to own one. Wow.
Thanks for that information
Clear, concise, to the point and unique. Been looking for this information a long time ago. But Find no one before that really knows what they're talking about. Thanks.
Great video, no frills and straight up facts!
Short concise and to the point. Thanks. I dont think I'm ready for an airplane though after hearing all of that.
Thank you for the information it was direct to the point
Glad it was helpful! -Dan
I’m curious about the interest only loan. Are you expecting minimal depreciation? Presumably you must be paying down capital periodically?
I used an interest only loan to assign value to the money being used for the plane. I sold the plane a year later for a little more than I bought it for. It is the purchasers choice to buy it cash, or put a loan on it. -Dan
@@danielolivermcelroy8320 got it 👍🏻
Excellent information. I have been struggling with the overall costs of 172 ownership. Great job. Thank you.
This was a awesome straight to the point video. and it being in USD it's easy to compare to CAD.
Thank you for sharing the breakdown. I especially like that you bought the older model with the O300-D. I've been looking at these models and this video and the predecessor were very helpful in helping to confirm that I'm heading in the right direction.
Straight to the point... I wish every vid was like this ..
That is way less expensive than I was expecting. TY for the video.
Exactly as advertised, straight to the point. Thanks!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it! -Dan
Thanks for breaking it down like that. This is very useful information for those of us still trying to enter aviation.
Glad it was helpful! -Dan
Thank You Daniel.. I appreciate you making this very simple and short.
Can't be any clearer than this great informative episode. Superb
So it's $75/hr/yr but you have a looming $38.1k debt. What is your plan with that? Is there any way you can use the plane to help bring that down?
You can't charge for use or rent it out without changing the type of laws that apply to it. I ended up selling the plane a few months ago after my daughter was born and I didn't have time to fly it. I sold it for more than I paid for it and paid off the loan. -Dan
oh that's the thought part when you own what you fly ! GREAT VIDEO thank you Dan.
You are most welcome. -Dan
Thanks, Dude🙏 Finally, all the relevant numbers, & in under 3 minutes🥳✌
This is a really, really good break down of cost. WOW! Thanks for taking the time.
very clear and succinct. I would expect nothing less from a pilot.
That was a great breakdown of cost. Very simple & seemingly accurate
Good job. Straight to the point, quick, clear and we'll thought out. Thank you. Congratulations, she looks like a cutie.
Very simple and easy to understand. Great job
This was such a well done video. Answered all my questions. Still cannot afford a plane!
Glad you got something out of it! -Dan
Wow dude.... that was superb...Nice and short and also all grounds covered....Super helpful thanks...!!
Thanks! I like knowing just the facts without 20 minutes of exposition so that is what I offer to others. -Dan
Wow, man tahnks for such a good video! Subscribed ) If your other vids are half that informative and on spot - you're great! The breakdown of cost to final 75$\hour\to own vs normal 100-130\to rent may be a decision maker for some people! ty again! cheerz
Thanks! I hope you enjoy. -Dan
This could not have been clearer or more well done. Thanks!
Appreciate the video. Taking away the cost when you actually own the plane makes the numbers not so bad.👍🏽
Very true! -Dan
this is what I want in a youtube video. info and no bullshit. Thanks, man. Keep it up. Make more of these about a civilian pilot experience and things to look after. On the technical aspect try to avoid the wind next time you film. :D
The best video!
Straight forward and no BS introduction etc. If something breaks its extra Duhhhh.
You are True, and you can add the mechanical breakdown between annual inspection, not predictable unfortunately, like cylinder wear with low compression $$$, wheel change, faulty instruments $$$...Good video.
Thanks! It is very difficult to predict those items as you mentioned. -Dan
Short, simple and to the point. Thx.
You are welcome. Glad you enjoyed it! -Dan
Short and to the point. Well done sir.
Thank you, very informative for folks wanting to take that next step.
Thanks Paul. I appreciate it. -Dan