This really takes me back. I ran an X800XT All-in-Wonder card back in the day (wish i'd not sold it on now). It was a glorified 9800 Pro when you really get down to it but man, it had some horsepower for it's time.
@@jondonnelly3 Ok...? The point is that it uses an R420 core which is well documented in it's fundamental similarity to the R300 core the 9800 line used, but better. Which is what I was commenting on.
I remember the X800 reviews when they launched. I also got the impression that it's basically a double the 9800 GPU with twice as many shaders. The lack of SM 3.0 is what stands out vs GeForce 6.
@@philscomputerlab That pretty much sums up what the R420 core was. The R400 core was deemed unnecessarily complex and (mostly) scrapped in favor of the simpler R420. The major exception being the Xbox 360's GPU which is based on the R400 with full SM 3 support..
@@philscomputerlab The port on the back is a stereo delay port that basically is used for 3-D displays and 3-D glasses I love that there's no information about this on the Internet other than Nvidia 3-D glasses images
Hey, I haven't watched in a while but I think it's really cool you decided you feature yourself fully in the videos now! It's great to see the man behind the channel after so many years of amazing content and you look great!
The thing is the FireGL cards are the best ones to use simply because they are CAD workstation cards and they have been designed from the ground up for rock solid stability, they also have extra power transistors, great video.
Finally! I bought this card back in 2018 for 20usd when i saw it in your friday pickup video. I was testing it in two of my builds (p4 3.06/xp3200, but sometimes this card was giving me black screen restart on firegl drivers. Today i tried again with catalist drivers and it works flawlessly.
13:11 Phil I love the stock footage company you license these cuts from, very professional results! I've been looking at those FireGL cards, but shipping has never made sense for where I am. Maybe one will come up locally. Thanks for the review.
nicely done again, gotta love older driver versions. funny just last night i was looking at my semi-functioning powercolor x850 pro and wishing it wasnt so semi-functioning and crashing upon driver install. the qx9650 system it belongs to isnt the same with a gtx 750ti katana inside
Great video, as always. Love the haircut :). I have one of those, both the card and the haircut. What surprised me is that it's BIOS-moddable to full 16 pipes. Export BIOS, change it with hex-editor, flash it back and it runs with full 16 pipes. If you have the card(s) please do simillar tests with FireGL X1-128 (or X2-256). Great alternatives to famous R3xx cards.
I love this! I'm using a FIreGL X1-256 in my Gateway with a P3 on a slocket and it's a blast. I have a few Fire cards in the closet so I'll have to look at them and see if there's a X3 in the mix!
An x850 pro was my first new video card I had ever purchased. I bought it just so I could play FEAR on my Gateway E-4000. I have a lot nostalgia for x800 series and I'm glad to see there is a Fire-GL equivalent. Thanks for the trip back in time Phil.
I am amazed at the performance of this graphics card in Windows 98. It is excellent. Too bad they don't exist in my country... nothing at all. You can only get GF MX, TNT2, FX 5200, 6200, ATI 9200, some Voodoo 3. I really liked the review, very detailed, excellent that you have tried nglide, I was looking forward to it. Excellent work! I look forward to a high-end Ge Force FX video.
Those are good cards, especially the GeForce MX is a card I like because it's not too expensive. The FX 5200 is very compatible but runs out of speed at higher settings. Same goes for Radeon 9200 type cards.
@@philscomputerlab I have a couple of each one (mx 440, 6200, 5200, radeon 7200), I got them for free years ago... but I would like to get an ati X800 (at least 9800pro or XT) or something like that for W98.
I am going to be building an early WIndows XP machine, this weekend. The case should be coming in sometime today. The machine will be equipped with an AMD Athlon 6 4000+. The CPU is really good, but it generates alot of heat so I have to have a more modern case with a slot for a floppy drive. The GPU is an Ati Sapphire X1950 GT card, which was released I think in 2007 and is an AGP slot card. It's pretty solid. I did manage to get around 13000 score in 3D Mark 03 and 8155 in 3D Mark 05, so it's a very solid setup. I use Catalyst 7.4 drivers because I find that those drivers work the fastest with this card and has the best compatibility for late 90s windows games. I was surprised to see your face, in your recent videos. I thought, "So, that's what the legendary philscompterlabs looks like. Putting a mug on the myth, the legend."
Phil, I watch you from many years, but you give us brand new fresh experience of your channel. Thank youI could discover your content once again, it feel like brand new start. I love your quality content, especially 3d agp, 3dfx and dos. Thank you Merry Christmas 🙂 🎄
@@philscomputerlab yes it’s unfortunate. You got me on the kick of trying FireGL cards equivalent to Radeon cards back when you made the video on the FireGL T2-64. I was on the hunt for the X3-256 and did get one for $35 but it was DOA. $90 or more and only 3 or 4 available on eBay right now. You may want to experiment with some of the PCIe options like the v5000, v5100, and v7100. Might make a case for some new vids 👍
@@philscomputerlab yes this is true but I’m still digging to find something that will work great with acceptable compatibility with Win9x. I am still working on the challenge with the FireGL 8800 drivers as well lol.
@@mesterak The FireGL v5000 can have its BIOS hard-modded to that of an x700 card and it works great under both XP and 98. The v5100 and v7100 are both x800 equivalents and the v5100 works as-is with x800 drivers force-installed (though note that only 1 of the 2 DVI ports works properly as a primary display). The v7100 is a beast of a card and it has been a while since I worked with one (they're quite rare now) but it does work fine under 98, I just can't remember if I had to hard-mod the BIIOS in that card or nnot.
First, sorry I haven’t watched in a while. We all have our ups and downs with the content we watch. Wanted to say, it’s amazing to finally SEE you!! You inspire me. Maybe I’ll get myself in front of the camera more. Thank you for all you’ve done and do Phil.
Hey Phil! The funny thing about the GLQuake benchmark is that, at 640 x 480, the video card is still a major bottleneck for that CPU. 😀 If you select 320 x 240 "-window" you should see up to 2000 FPS or more. Cheers and keep the videos coming, I really like the fact that you are now releasing videos on a regular basis! 🙂
Nice video as usual, thank you phil. For me there are two worlds in term of retro gaming : W98/DOS and Windows xp . I prefer having two machines more period correct and avoid compatibilty issues. For W98/Dos i stick with older "cheap" Hardware : Slot one mobo with pentium2 233 to pentium3 1Ghz, agp/pci/isa slots and all sorts of graphics cards, from the crappy ones up to Geforce FX. You can buy/build cheap and funny slot one machines. For Windows xp : I will go for fast cheap dual cores machines like intel core 2 duos and all sorts of cheap graphic cards up to GTX 750ti. You can also build fairly cheap rigs and have a lot of fun with them.
I appreciate you looking at that for me. I must have some funky stuff going on with my Windows XP install. I was able to get HL2 to launch drm free in Windows 7, but just have no idea why the same set of game files would work on Windows 7 but not on XP. Great video, thanks Phil.
I remember having to flash a blank bios and then the 16 pipe bios, not Riva tuner sorry. The Sapphire X800 pro VIVO I had back in the day unlocked to the full 16 pipes.
These are also pretty cheap options to BIOS flash to use on AGP Power Macs. You do have to either tape pin 3/11 or remove 2 resistors if using them on anything older than a G5.
Funnily enough these are one of the few cards officially supported under HP-UX on HPPA. Got a super cheap HP C8000 about a year back (sketchy ebay listing with minimal detail, arrived and better spec than anticipated) and it came with one
Phil! I love Windows XP. I was working with a computer at work the other day with a bad board...threw their drive into a crappy old dell....got booted up! The nostalga! Her new computer has Windows 10 though ;)
That 256bit bus reminded me of the 3850 and by association the 4670, you never got around to show that card didn't you? I'm really curious how far can they go before one or the other is bottlenecked by which processor given how I've even installed W8.1 with an AGP system recently.
ahhh the X800, I recently bought one myself! NOS from Japan. I swapped the ROM chip for a larger capacity and programmed it to work inside a Macintosh MDD tower. An absolute gem for the day, still looks and works great!
A radeon x800xt was the first graphics card I bought with my own money. I think it was 2004. Pretty expensive card in Spain back then, I remember close to 600 euros. But it was faaaaast! Remember playing HL2 at max. The MB I used was a MSI 915P Neo2 platinum. One of the best MB for the Prescott platform. CPU was pentium 4 640.
In the world of AGP PPC Macs, the FireGL x3 is the best, easily flashed option. I have the exact same model, flashed to the 800xt Mac model - which leaves some headroom (that ATIcellerator really has a hard time with). Action Retro has pushed further for Macs, and PCIe G5s are able to do some crazy stuff with Linux... This card changed my retro-Mac, I swear the machine with it's dual processors just sweats whenever this card ramps up. But my torture is running modded Baldur's Gate, with full graphic overhauls... Yeah, I know, way hardcore FPS gaming material ;)
Pretty sure you can get table fog emulation with some ATI cards but only under windows XP (maybe newer as well?), but not 9x. From what I recall it might not be 100% accurate but fairly good. I'm thinking it was introduced around Catalyst v7 but somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. Heck, this might even be a good thing to test in a video.
Yeah I read about that on Vogons. I was thinking of using one of these in an XP system that also runs later 98 games, then leaving DOS and early glide stuff to my old Windows 95 200MMX.
i can't express how i feel about this video, i barely got a pc in 2006 i think, i didn't know which gpu i had but later when i got into pc building and because i kept the old pc i found out i had an fx5200 but can't remember the vram size. i played gothic, dyna bomber, nfs most wanted, quake3, gta 2 and 3. i was reading about FEAR in a magazine called LEVEL which was giving out free games with each issue at the time :) thank you for the nostalgia, even the one that i didn't get to have
0:20 That looks nothing like an S-Video Luma/Chroma (Y/C) connector, so it being a FireGL I thought it might have been a lightpen connector (I have seen lightpens with a similar connector) or external sync. Well, looking at the manual it turns out I was half right, it is a connector for a kind of external sync, the manual calls it a "Stereographics Connection" for a "Quad-buffered stereographics device", i.e. active 3D glasses. Even some spec sites I ran across looking for the manual lists it as S-Video, so I would not beat myself up over making that mistake in identity.
Perhaps the stuttering you saw under 98 was due to the limited amount of memory compared to XP? Also seeing Quake that close to 60 FPS kind-of suggests vsync was enabled? Coincidentally I also had to manually install the drivers for my AMD Vegas 64 on my old windows 10 installation. I recently upgraded my system and did a fresh install of windows 11, but I put the old SSD in a USB enclosure and enabled windows to go so I could boot into it if I need anything. That windows 10 install is so broken, I had to break windows update to prevent it from continuously trying and failing to install updates, so it's just enough out of date that none of the AMD installers will install the drivers. But manually installing the drivers works fine.
No v-sync under DOS in the Quake benchmark. Hmm yea maybe 512MB isn't enough for nGlide, that's a good point and easy to test in future videos with patch and 1GB RAM.
@@philscomputerlab I guess that ATI has always on VSYNC in DOS 640x480 resolution. I never got over 60 in my tests at ATI card. Might be some bios hidden thing for less power consumption....who knows....320x240 and 360x480 resolutions dont have this issue. www.vgamuseum.info/images/vlask/bench/quake640fastvid.png
I had this beast (X800pro) as exchange for 9600pro. My cousin wroked as IT administrator and they've got X800pro as gift from supplier of hardware. There was no need for such beast card :-) Luck for me. Firtst thougth I could live whit this till end of AGP era. It didn't happen (un)fortunately - ATi released almighty 1950pro for agp and my Athlon64 3700+ cooperated very well for next few years. My live whit series of ATi graphics was really great 9600pro - 9800pro - X800pro - 1950pro
Good sutff as usual Phil. Does that 4x4 game at 11:40 go by a different title in different territories? I can't find anything called "4x4 Rally" for Windows.
@@philscomputerlab Yes, that was exactly the problem. Never mind how while the X800 series was definitely faster, a lot of the promised "openGL fixes" ati made at the time only applied to their windows xp driver. Pretty much leaving anyone else to just pound sand :(
@@philscomputerlab Oh, Question! how did you get the radeon to output a signal in dos mode? With my x800 and x850, it always gave me a black screen whenever I rebooted to ms-dos mode.
I got one of these cards a year or two ago, has been a great card in my P4EE 3.4 machine, but that was recently replaced by a HIS AGP Radeon 3850 so the FireGL now lives in a P4 3.06ghz Shuttle XPC, pretty fast card!
Have you consider making a video about the SiS 6326 8mb AGP card? My first computer ever was a Celeron 233mhz slot 1 with 32mb of PC100 ram (I upgraded to 128 later on) and it had an on-board SiS 6326 8mb chip, supposedly through the AGP bus. I remember being able to play a lot of games and I have fond memories of it, even though I always dreamed about buying something better but couldn't. I bought a new PC when games started to require Transform and lighting (T&L).
I modded my GeForce 2 MX400 (IIRC just a driver mod) in the other direction, to show up as Quadro-something. Was so cool that it became perhaps a many hundreds of dollars workstation card, for free. :) Of course never tried any of the professional software, but did not notice any issues in games either.
I've noticed the same in Clive Barker's Undying when using nglide on 98se, There's a console command for Crysis that will show the FPS and other performance figures and info, "r_displayinfo 1" into the console should do the job :D
That Radeon is very interesting... I don't remember seeing an AGP Card with Molex Connectivity on it, also Man... I'm also surprised with it's performance, I didn't expect Sempron to Bottleneck that Card tbh. I kinda was expecting that it could work best with Athlon 64 already... That card is a monster, Lemme tell ya that! 3:10 - Yeah, I feel like Installing Windows From USB is a Hit or Miss most of the time, Once it worked but the other time I had to use an Optical Drive. 13:12 - Gotta love these Phil Moments xD
Yea optical driver never lets us down 🙂With the Sempron, remember Socket 754 is single channel and Sempron clocked quite low. I plan on doing a 754 Sempron roundup and then, later, a 939 Sempron roundup to get a better feel of where these CPUs land.
@@philscomputerlab I just ordered yet another DVD drive to put in a build (using the exact same motherboard that you use) for the same reason. Yeah it takes a little longer than from USB, but installing XP from it just works.
Phil, I'm not sure if this is what's happening in your scenario but I have noticed Windows 98 tends to act a bit funny with dual-core machines *when you don't disable the second core in the BIOS.* I have tried 98 on a machine I own with a Core 2 Duo E8500 and it's totally fine, if absurdly fast, with just one core but if I don't disable the second core it won't boot 90% of the time.
Interesting because I heard that Win9x won't even be aware of the additional cores so it shouldn't cause issues, but probably good to test if one has issues.
@@kunka592 While it is true that Win9x doesn't see the other core(s), I have experienced problems with the aforementioned system running 98 without the second core disabled. Why, I'm not entirely sure, perhaps it has something to do with the way DMA works but I can't really say one way or the other what the cause is. Your mileage may vary.
iv noticed even if u dont add more then 512mb ram for i windows 98 se if u go ahead install 1gb patch it fixed ilegal operations bug do u mind testing that
Hi Phill. Thank you for testing this. Very interesting. Just a little suggestion. Can you write down the configuration in the comments. I forgot after several minutes and had to rewind the video to find the info. Twice. :) About problems with Quake: Is it OpenGL version? Those cards are suppposed to be OpenGL workforces, so I wonder if using OpenGL part of FireGL driver will make any difference over x800 version? Just guessing in the dark.
hey Phil, I've been remembering DFI lately because I always thought their boards looked cool LOL were they actually good, though? I feel like they died as a company because they really weren't but don't know for sure. Any thoughts?
AGP is a sore spot for me. The very first computer that I owned, that wasn't a shared family computer, was a small form factor Dell Optiplex. I wasn't aware of form factors, everything to me was just "it's a computer" and I wanted to turn it into a gaming computer. After I found out that it took AGP cards, I went and bought one only to find that it didn't physically fit into my computer. I was so fed up with it that I went out and bought a whole new computer just so I could play Runescape as it was turning from 2d to 3d.
I plan on using catalyst 5.11 for my x800 card on xp. Do you think the newer drivers would be better? I know for the 9800 pro version 3.8 to 4.2 were best.
This card looks really good:) it was a great card for 2004 and 2005 The Performance is between X 800 and X800 XL. Even Pentium 4 3,6GHz or AMD Athlon 64 3700+ or 4000 bottleneck this graphic cards. I also think you need a Core2 Duo ore Amd Atlon 64 X2 CPU if you don't want a bottleneck Even with Athlon 63 3700+ a Radeon X800 never get 60 fps in far Cry even in 1024x768 Maximum no AA. Its amazing how much faster Core 2Duo is. I like the Radeon X800 Series Cards:) this cards are fast with Anti Aliasing and better image Quality than Geforce 6800. Even X700 has better image Quality than Geforce 6600 Gt in my opinion.
Question Phil, how do you play Half Life 2 Lost Coast on XP? Honestly, if there is a way to run Steam on XP please tell me how. I have several LGA775 computers, I love that platform, and I want to use XP to play my Half Life games but Steam doesn't recognize XP when I try to connect to it after installation of Steam it gives me an error and that's it. I like Windows 7 but that is just to heavy of an OS when it comes to high frame rate and ability of the CPU is only so much so XP is my preferred OS for Doom 3 or Crysis or Half Life 2 Lost Coast or any of the Half Life legacy. Thank you for making videos about all of the computer parts I like, I have also a bunch of what you have made videos of. Please tell me though how you play Half Life on XP, Please? And have a nice day brother.
I found that usb soundcards do not slow down benchs or pc like the sb live does. Give a cheap USB a try, I would not go back unless you really want native dos.
I think if you do it through the XP installer, there's a good chance it won't be aligned. If you format in Win7+, then use the existing partition when installing XP, it should be aligned.
Recently on eBay there was a new HIS X850 Pro for EUR 75, from Germany. Sold quickly in two days, while I was taking my time whether to take it or not.
Is there anyway to get the 1950XT working under 9x. I've tried forcing various cards but no luck. I wish it would work as mine as an Artic cooler and is very quiet.
How well does it play in DOS, is the Commander Keen scrolling smooth? If so, this could be a great replacement for my 6800GT if my 6800GT breaks again in the future.
@@philscomputerlab I don't blame you but it does give a good indication of MS-Dos compatibility haha. That one, Duke3D and GTA are probably my goto's for testing that.
@@jondonnelly3 Definately do which is why I picked it. But 6800GT's aren't always the most reliable cards long term. I already had one die on me and always am open to better options.
@@philscomputerlabyou can actually get a special type of adapter called an hdmi audio embedder that will add in optical or line audio into the dvi signal.
Issues are with too modern agp cards and W98. Stick with older cards and you will be happy. Best bet with riva tnt2 ==> Geforce 2 ==> Geforce Fx . You can find cheap and stables cards for the W98 era. Then, if you need more power for more modern games Windows xp and pci express rig is the way to go.
@@jeckjeck6943 Even with an FX 5900 Ultra, I find the Win98SE compatibility to be not as good as I'd hoped, and frankly the speed isn't blazing fast for games from 2000-2001, which is still before XP took over.
@@kunka592 Hello. You maybe right. I consider fx cards as an extreme for W98. Geforce Fx were designed for Windows xp. Your fx5900 ultra is a 2003 beast and need a beast of a processor of it's time. For win98 i prefer to stick with older hardware for older games like slot one machines with p2 233 up to p3 1ghz and riva tnt up to Geforce fx5200/5700 that you can find at cheap prices. They wil give you Geforce 4 performances for a lower price. Even a 1 ghz pocessor will bottlneck these cards so performances are not an issue for me. For more modern games i go for windows xp and more modern and also cheaper hardware like core2duos and Geforces cards. Consider also that in 2000/2001 1600/1200 was the 4k of it's time and most of gamers were playing at lower resolutions like 1024/768 or 1280/1024.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 91 | คู่เอก "คมอาวุธ vs อเล็กเซย์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V0RkEfYFsgM/mqdefault.jpg)
0:30 3D glasses output (for VR headset back in these days).
This really takes me back. I ran an X800XT All-in-Wonder card back in the day (wish i'd not sold it on now). It was a glorified 9800 Pro when you really get down to it but man, it had some horsepower for it's time.
It's blows away a 9800 Pro by 50%+
@@jondonnelly3 Ok...? The point is that it uses an R420 core which is well documented in it's fundamental similarity to the R300 core the 9800 line used, but better. Which is what I was commenting on.
I remember the X800 reviews when they launched. I also got the impression that it's basically a double the 9800 GPU with twice as many shaders. The lack of SM 3.0 is what stands out vs GeForce 6.
@@philscomputerlab That pretty much sums up what the R420 core was. The R400 core was deemed unnecessarily complex and (mostly) scrapped in favor of the simpler R420. The major exception being the Xbox 360's GPU which is based on the R400 with full SM 3 support..
@@philscomputerlab The port on the back is a stereo delay port that basically is used for 3-D displays and 3-D glasses I love that there's no information about this on the Internet other than Nvidia 3-D glasses images
Hey, I haven't watched in a while but I think it's really cool you decided you feature yourself fully in the videos now! It's great to see the man behind the channel after so many years of amazing content and you look great!
Thanks! You too!
YES to Ai generated images
@@tomyyoung2624 mouhahaha
@@0371998 yes one talking about my hotbar
The thing is the FireGL cards are the best ones to use simply because they are CAD workstation cards and they have been designed from the ground up for rock solid stability, they also have extra power transistors, great video.
When a Graphics card could run on a 12volt Molex connector...
Bruh you again
Your mom loves that molex
I work on graphics drivers and we have a test GPU using a Molex connector like this at work.
Lmao bottom text
How times have changed. FX 5950 had a molex and a RTX 4090 has the new melting connector
Finally! I bought this card back in 2018 for 20usd when i saw it in your friday pickup video. I was testing it in two of my builds (p4 3.06/xp3200, but sometimes this card was giving me black screen restart on firegl drivers. Today i tried again with catalist drivers and it works flawlessly.
Awesome!
Nice to see your face Phil. You're a retro legend!
13:11 Phil I love the stock footage company you license these cuts from, very professional results!
I've been looking at those FireGL cards, but shipping has never made sense for where I am. Maybe one will come up locally. Thanks for the review.
imagine how amazing AGP would be if they had continued to develop it as a video card interface instead of abandoning it long ago
The stock footage company being himself
nicely done again, gotta love older driver versions. funny just last night i was looking at my semi-functioning powercolor x850 pro and wishing it wasnt so semi-functioning and crashing upon driver install. the qx9650 system it belongs to isnt the same with a gtx 750ti katana inside
Great video, as always. Love the haircut :). I have one of those, both the card and the haircut. What surprised me is that it's BIOS-moddable to full 16 pipes. Export BIOS, change it with hex-editor, flash it back and it runs with full 16 pipes. If you have the card(s) please do simillar tests with FireGL X1-128 (or X2-256). Great alternatives to famous R3xx cards.
I love this! I'm using a FIreGL X1-256 in my Gateway with a P3 on a slocket and it's a blast. I have a few Fire cards in the closet so I'll have to look at them and see if there's a X3 in the mix!
An x850 pro was my first new video card I had ever purchased. I bought it just so I could play FEAR on my Gateway E-4000. I have a lot nostalgia for x800 series and I'm glad to see there is a Fire-GL equivalent. Thanks for the trip back in time Phil.
What a strange coincidence. I recently bought an x800 pro for my p4 retro pc and couldn't really find any good videos on this card. Awesome!
I am amazed at the performance of this graphics card in Windows 98. It is excellent. Too bad they don't exist in my country... nothing at all. You can only get GF MX, TNT2, FX 5200, 6200, ATI 9200, some Voodoo 3. I really liked the review, very detailed, excellent that you have tried nglide, I was looking forward to it. Excellent work! I look forward to a high-end Ge Force FX video.
Those are good cards, especially the GeForce MX is a card I like because it's not too expensive. The FX 5200 is very compatible but runs out of speed at higher settings. Same goes for Radeon 9200 type cards.
@@philscomputerlab I have a couple of each one (mx 440, 6200, 5200, radeon 7200), I got them for free years ago... but I would like to get an ati X800 (at least 9800pro or XT) or something like that for W98.
I am going to be building an early WIndows XP machine, this weekend. The case should be coming in sometime today. The machine will be equipped with an AMD Athlon 6 4000+. The CPU is really good, but it generates alot of heat so I have to have a more modern case with a slot for a floppy drive. The GPU is an Ati Sapphire X1950 GT card, which was released I think in 2007 and is an AGP slot card. It's pretty solid. I did manage to get around 13000 score in 3D Mark 03 and 8155 in 3D Mark 05, so it's a very solid setup. I use Catalyst 7.4 drivers because I find that those drivers work the fastest with this card and has the best compatibility for late 90s windows games. I was surprised to see your face, in your recent videos. I thought, "So, that's what the legendary philscompterlabs looks like. Putting a mug on the myth, the legend."
Phil, I watch you from many years, but you give us brand new fresh experience of your channel. Thank youI could discover your content once again, it feel like brand new start. I love your quality content, especially 3d agp, 3dfx and dos. Thank you Merry Christmas 🙂 🎄
Wow, thank you!
Nice, I had a the X800Xt AIW, was my last AGP card, played at 1600x1200 on a 21"
1600 x 1200 drooool.
Happy Friday Phil! My son and I enjoyed this one. Unfortunately this card is hard to find and expensive here in the US.
Oh no!
@@philscomputerlab yes it’s unfortunate. You got me on the kick of trying FireGL cards equivalent to Radeon cards back when you made the video on the FireGL T2-64. I was on the hunt for the X3-256 and did get one for $35 but it was DOA. $90 or more and only 3 or 4 available on eBay right now. You may want to experiment with some of the PCIe options like the v5000, v5100, and v7100. Might make a case for some new vids 👍
PCIe there are so many options, but compatibility just doesn't compare to AGP, especially for Windows 98.
@@philscomputerlab yes this is true but I’m still digging to find something that will work great with acceptable compatibility with Win9x. I am still working on the challenge with the FireGL 8800 drivers as well lol.
@@mesterak The FireGL v5000 can have its BIOS hard-modded to that of an x700 card and it works great under both XP and 98. The v5100 and v7100 are both x800 equivalents and the v5100 works as-is with x800 drivers force-installed (though note that only 1 of the 2 DVI ports works properly as a primary display). The v7100 is a beast of a card and it has been a while since I worked with one (they're quite rare now) but it does work fine under 98, I just can't remember if I had to hard-mod the BIIOS in that card or nnot.
First, sorry I haven’t watched in a while. We all have our ups and downs with the content we watch. Wanted to say, it’s amazing to finally SEE you!! You inspire me. Maybe I’ll get myself in front of the camera more. Thank you for all you’ve done and do Phil.
Thank you 😃
Hey Phil! The funny thing about the GLQuake benchmark is that, at 640 x 480, the video card is still a major bottleneck for that CPU. 😀
If you select 320 x 240 "-window" you should see up to 2000 FPS or more. Cheers and keep the videos coming, I really like the fact that you are now releasing videos on a regular basis! 🙂
I don't think so.
@@nadirjofas3140 You are free to try it yourself. :-) I did... multiple times.
@@ruxandy But not here.
Took me a while to find X850s!
Nice video as usual, thank you phil.
For me there are two worlds in term of retro gaming : W98/DOS and Windows xp .
I prefer having two machines more period correct and avoid compatibilty issues.
For W98/Dos i stick with older "cheap" Hardware : Slot one mobo with pentium2 233 to pentium3 1Ghz, agp/pci/isa slots and all sorts of graphics cards, from the crappy ones up to Geforce FX.
You can buy/build cheap and funny slot one machines.
For Windows xp : I will go for fast cheap dual cores machines like intel core 2 duos and all sorts of cheap graphic cards up to GTX 750ti. You can also build fairly cheap rigs and have a lot of fun with them.
I appreciate you looking at that for me. I must have some funky stuff going on with my Windows XP install. I was able to get HL2 to launch drm free in Windows 7, but just have no idea why the same set of game files would work on Windows 7 but not on XP. Great video, thanks Phil.
I noticed a recent update to HL2, it mentioned DXVK, some sort of Direct3D to Vulkan translator. Maybe related to Linux?
@@philscomputerlab that could be it, but you got a recent version to work. If your recent version works then my recent version should too right?
What version is you HL2?
Great card, I have two X800Pros, one is in my main retrorig 👌
I have 2x X800 256MB.
1x X800XL and 1x X800XT
Cool card and amazing video as always!
I remember having to flash a blank bios and then the 16 pipe bios, not Riva tuner sorry. The Sapphire X800 pro VIVO I had back in the day unlocked to the full 16 pipes.
Great video. Thak you. I rounght on ebay a ATI Fire GL V3350 in OVP and Still sealed
I have this mobo and yes, it is great and the best for AGP. This is the first item of Asrock that I use/buy.
These are also pretty cheap options to BIOS flash to use on AGP Power Macs. You do have to either tape pin 3/11 or remove 2 resistors if using them on anything older than a G5.
Funnily enough these are one of the few cards officially supported under HP-UX on HPPA. Got a super cheap HP C8000 about a year back (sketchy ebay listing with minimal detail, arrived and better spec than anticipated) and it came with one
Phil! I love Windows XP. I was working with a computer at work the other day with a bad board...threw their drive into a crappy old dell....got booted up! The nostalga! Her new computer has Windows 10 though ;)
8:49 That card could in theory be classified as VR capable even!
That 256bit bus reminded me of the 3850 and by association the 4670, you never got around to show that card didn't you? I'm really curious how far can they go before one or the other is bottlenecked by which processor given how I've even installed W8.1 with an AGP system recently.
ahhh the X800, I recently bought one myself! NOS from Japan. I swapped the ROM chip for a larger capacity and programmed it to work inside a Macintosh MDD tower. An absolute gem for the day, still looks and works great!
Very interesting card, like!
Phil the ATI fireproof v800 has a similar output. Good video
It runs CRYSIS!
I like the dinky heatsink and fan on these old cards.
A radeon x800xt was the first graphics card I bought with my own money. I think it was 2004. Pretty expensive card in Spain back then, I remember close to 600 euros. But it was faaaaast! Remember playing HL2 at max. The MB I used was a MSI 915P Neo2 platinum. One of the best MB for the Prescott platform. CPU was pentium 4 640.
In the world of AGP PPC Macs, the FireGL x3 is the best, easily flashed option. I have the exact same model, flashed to the 800xt Mac model - which leaves some headroom (that ATIcellerator really has a hard time with). Action Retro has pushed further for Macs, and PCIe G5s are able to do some crazy stuff with Linux...
This card changed my retro-Mac, I swear the machine with it's dual processors just sweats whenever this card ramps up. But my torture is running modded Baldur's Gate, with full graphic overhauls... Yeah, I know, way hardcore FPS gaming material ;)
Pretty sure you can get table fog emulation with some ATI cards but only under windows XP (maybe newer as well?), but not 9x. From what I recall it might not be 100% accurate but fairly good. I'm thinking it was introduced around Catalyst v7 but somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. Heck, this might even be a good thing to test in a video.
Never had any luck with table fog on ATI cards under 98. And usually don't test 98 games on XP either...
Yeah I read about that on Vogons. I was thinking of using one of these in an XP system that also runs later 98 games, then leaving DOS and early glide stuff to my old Windows 95 200MMX.
i can't express how i feel about this video, i barely got a pc in 2006 i think, i didn't know which gpu i had but later when i got into pc building and because i kept the old pc i found out i had an fx5200 but can't remember the vram size. i played gothic, dyna bomber, nfs most wanted, quake3, gta 2 and 3. i was reading about FEAR in a magazine called LEVEL which was giving out free games with each issue at the time :) thank you for the nostalgia, even the one that i didn't get to have
AWesome!
You can use rufus version 2.18 for XP USB sticks. It was the last version to support xp isos. Never had any problems.
0:20 That looks nothing like an S-Video Luma/Chroma (Y/C) connector, so it being a FireGL I thought it might have been a lightpen connector (I have seen lightpens with a similar connector) or external sync. Well, looking at the manual it turns out I was half right, it is a connector for a kind of external sync, the manual calls it a "Stereographics Connection" for a "Quad-buffered stereographics device", i.e. active 3D glasses. Even some spec sites I ran across looking for the manual lists it as S-Video, so I would not beat myself up over making that mistake in identity.
Interesting, yes I looked up some specifications actually 😅
Perhaps the stuttering you saw under 98 was due to the limited amount of memory compared to XP?
Also seeing Quake that close to 60 FPS kind-of suggests vsync was enabled?
Coincidentally I also had to manually install the drivers for my AMD Vegas 64 on my old windows 10 installation. I recently upgraded my system and did a fresh install of windows 11, but I put the old SSD in a USB enclosure and enabled windows to go so I could boot into it if I need anything. That windows 10 install is so broken, I had to break windows update to prevent it from continuously trying and failing to install updates, so it's just enough out of date that none of the AMD installers will install the drivers. But manually installing the drivers works fine.
No v-sync under DOS in the Quake benchmark. Hmm yea maybe 512MB isn't enough for nGlide, that's a good point and easy to test in future videos with patch and 1GB RAM.
768 will work fine without patch with the basic registry tweaks.
@@philscomputerlab nglide is something I must try out!
@@philscomputerlab I guess that ATI has always on VSYNC in DOS 640x480 resolution. I never got over 60 in my tests at ATI card. Might be some bios hidden thing for less power consumption....who knows....320x240 and 360x480 resolutions dont have this issue.
www.vgamuseum.info/images/vlask/bench/quake640fastvid.png
@@vgamuseum Very interesting. Maybe it's a feature then, for tear-free gameplay? 😁
I had this beast (X800pro) as exchange for 9600pro. My cousin wroked as IT administrator and they've got X800pro as gift from supplier of hardware. There was no need for such beast card :-) Luck for me. Firtst thougth I could live whit this till end of AGP era. It didn't happen (un)fortunately - ATi released almighty 1950pro for agp and my Athlon64 3700+ cooperated very well for next few years. My live whit series of ATi graphics was really great 9600pro - 9800pro - X800pro - 1950pro
Good sutff as usual Phil. Does that 4x4 game at 11:40 go by a different title in different territories? I can't find anything called "4x4 Rally" for Windows.
"Screamer 4x4" (2000) Developed by Clever's Games Ltd. Published by Virgin Interactive Entertainment (Europe) Ltd.
@@kunka592 Thanks!
OMG you're right, my brain totally let me down again 😅
I just installed a brand new RX 6700 XT, got a 4K monitor yesterday and what do I do? Watch Phil's new video first of course! :D
😅
I was beginning to wonder if the firegl drivers were going to block opengl or not. Ironic considering that cad at the time leaned hard on it.
I mean the card is called Fire GL and then can't run GL games LOL
@@philscomputerlab Yes, that was exactly the problem. Never mind how while the X800 series was definitely faster, a lot of the promised "openGL fixes" ati made at the time only applied to their windows xp driver. Pretty much leaving anyone else to just pound sand :(
@@philscomputerlab Oh, Question! how did you get the radeon to output a signal in dos mode? With my x800 and x850, it always gave me a black screen whenever I rebooted to ms-dos mode.
0:15 man, that's pretty 😍
I got one of these cards a year or two ago, has been a great card in my P4EE 3.4 machine, but that was recently replaced by a HIS AGP Radeon 3850 so the FireGL now lives in a P4 3.06ghz Shuttle XPC, pretty fast card!
Have good weekends!
This GPU also is great for being flashed into an X800XT for use in PowerMac G4’s
Have you consider making a video about the SiS 6326 8mb AGP card? My first computer ever was a Celeron 233mhz slot 1 with 32mb of PC100 ram (I upgraded to 128 later on) and it had an on-board SiS 6326 8mb chip, supposedly through the AGP bus. I remember being able to play a lot of games and I have fond memories of it, even though I always dreamed about buying something better but couldn't. I bought a new PC when games started to require Transform and lighting (T&L).
I modded my GeForce 2 MX400 (IIRC just a driver mod) in the other direction, to show up as Quadro-something. Was so cool that it became perhaps a many hundreds of dollars workstation card, for free. :)
Of course never tried any of the professional software, but did not notice any issues in games either.
I've noticed the same in Clive Barker's Undying when using nglide on 98se, There's a console command for Crysis that will show the FPS and other performance figures and info, "r_displayinfo 1" into the console should do the job :D
What's up Phil!
That Radeon is very interesting... I don't remember seeing an AGP Card with Molex Connectivity on it, also Man... I'm also surprised with it's performance, I didn't expect Sempron to Bottleneck that Card tbh. I kinda was expecting that it could work best with Athlon 64 already... That card is a monster, Lemme tell ya that!
3:10 - Yeah, I feel like Installing Windows From USB is a Hit or Miss most of the time, Once it worked but the other time I had to use an Optical Drive.
13:12 - Gotta love these Phil Moments xD
Yea optical driver never lets us down 🙂With the Sempron, remember Socket 754 is single channel and Sempron clocked quite low. I plan on doing a 754 Sempron roundup and then, later, a 939 Sempron roundup to get a better feel of where these CPUs land.
@@philscomputerlab I just ordered yet another DVD drive to put in a build (using the exact same motherboard that you use) for the same reason. Yeah it takes a little longer than from USB, but installing XP from it just works.
0:30 that port is for 3D graphics
Never drawn to those twin dvi cards, always find myself grabbing a card with direct vga out for retro builds. I guess I'm attached to old crts
Simple DVI to VGA dongle solves this. I see dual DVI as best of both worlds. You can cover any situation.
The dvi works fine as vga and adaptor comez with card.
It is possible to use the S3TC High Resolution Textures Pack from Unreal Tournament GOTY without S3 MeTaL ?
Phil, I'm not sure if this is what's happening in your scenario but I have noticed Windows 98 tends to act a bit funny with dual-core machines *when you don't disable the second core in the BIOS.* I have tried 98 on a machine I own with a Core 2 Duo E8500 and it's totally fine, if absurdly fast, with just one core but if I don't disable the second core it won't boot 90% of the time.
While I haven't noticed this I think it's a good idea to disable the second core and/or HT.
Interesting because I heard that Win9x won't even be aware of the additional cores so it shouldn't cause issues, but probably good to test if one has issues.
@@kunka592 While it is true that Win9x doesn't see the other core(s), I have experienced problems with the aforementioned system running 98 without the second core disabled. Why, I'm not entirely sure, perhaps it has something to do with the way DMA works but I can't really say one way or the other what the cause is. Your mileage may vary.
iv noticed even if u dont add more then 512mb ram for i windows 98 se if u go ahead install 1gb patch it fixed ilegal operations bug do u mind testing that
@3:10 Me wondering why I got a bluescreen but Phil is still talking.
Haha 😅
Would be nice to check for Win2k if there are stutters at nglide.
Looks exactly like my Club3D X800 Pro.
Hi Phill. Thank you for testing this. Very interesting.
Just a little suggestion. Can you write down the configuration in the comments. I forgot after several minutes and had to rewind the video to find the info. Twice. :)
About problems with Quake: Is it OpenGL version? Those cards are suppposed to be OpenGL workforces, so I wonder if using OpenGL part of FireGL driver will make any difference over x800 version? Just guessing in the dark.
I miss ATI. It was different.
Hi Phil. Love your videos. Have you considered setting up a Discord server for your community to congregate?
I believe I have one, but don't think anyone is using it 😅
@@philscomputerlab I'd use it and I think others would as well if you posted the link in your video descriptions. 🙂
Wow, that was unexpected. I have a amd geode running with a geforce 5700se. That might be bottlenecked hard....
Yess!
One thing I dislike about intel processors I'd their coolers, gone through so many trying to fit them.
hey my old card still got it played a lot of Sof 1 and 2 on it in the days
hey Phil, I've been remembering DFI lately because I always thought their boards looked cool LOL were they actually good, though? I feel like they died as a company because they really weren't but don't know for sure. Any thoughts?
Not sure, they only DFI board I have is the old Socket 7 stuff. Newer gear I stick with Asus and Gigabyte mostly.
i'm a simple man. i see agp. i like.
^ ^/
Hello Phils
I think that connector in the center is for 3D glasses.
I miss the predictable old benchmarks with scalable decreases depending on resolution.
Charts do show resolution scaling!
AGP is a sore spot for me. The very first computer that I owned, that wasn't a shared family computer, was a small form factor Dell Optiplex. I wasn't aware of form factors, everything to me was just "it's a computer" and I wanted to turn it into a gaming computer. After I found out that it took AGP cards, I went and bought one only to find that it didn't physically fit into my computer. I was so fed up with it that I went out and bought a whole new computer just so I could play Runescape as it was turning from 2d to 3d.
Good day everyone.
I was wondering if there is any program for W98 like MSI Afterburner, that shows the usage of the system specs while you'r gmaing?
I’m suprised ATI didn’t use the full 16 pipeline GPU core on their flagship workstation GPU.
I plan on using catalyst 5.11 for my x800 card on xp. Do you think the newer drivers would be better? I know for the 9800 pro version 3.8 to 4.2 were best.
Not sure, at least in the games I usually test, the latest Catalyst driver works just fine.
Did you try this with a dvi to HDMI adapter? Haven't had luck with ati cards and dvi to HDMI adapters
Hmm I recently used one with a Radeon 9200 SE and worked fine with my TCL TV, this was under DOS.
This card looks really good:)
it was a great card for 2004 and 2005
The Performance is between X 800 and X800 XL.
Even Pentium 4 3,6GHz or AMD Athlon 64 3700+ or 4000
bottleneck this graphic cards. I also think you need a Core2 Duo ore Amd Atlon 64 X2 CPU if you don't want a bottleneck
Even with Athlon 63 3700+ a Radeon X800 never get 60 fps in far Cry even in 1024x768 Maximum no AA. Its amazing how much faster Core 2Duo is.
I like the Radeon X800 Series Cards:) this cards are fast with Anti Aliasing and better image Quality than Geforce 6800.
Even X700 has better image Quality than Geforce 6600 Gt in my opinion.
Question Phil, how do you play Half Life 2 Lost Coast on XP? Honestly, if there is a way to run Steam on XP please tell me how. I have several LGA775 computers, I love that platform, and I want to use XP to play my Half Life games but Steam doesn't recognize XP when I try to connect to it after installation of Steam it gives me an error and that's it. I like Windows 7 but that is just to heavy of an OS when it comes to high frame rate and ability of the CPU is only so much so XP is my preferred OS for Doom 3 or Crysis or Half Life 2 Lost Coast or any of the Half Life legacy. Thank you for making videos about all of the computer parts I like, I have also a bunch of what you have made videos of. Please tell me though how you play Half Life on XP, Please? And have a nice day brother.
These games are, or at least used to be, DRM free. I just copied the folder and run it on Retro PC without Internet access or Steam.
Thing is, the consoles ran Crysis at slightly less than 1024x768 too (1024x720).
Nice card, but a bit too expensive here in the US on ebay
Oh no!
I found that usb soundcards do not slow down benchs or pc like the sb live does. Give a cheap USB a try, I would not go back unless you really want native dos.
Quick question, what's the difference between snappy driver installer and snappy driver installer origin? they look the same to me
Not 100% I can only guess that there are human / political reasons behind something like this.
Question, do you do the sector alignment for the ssd under xp?
I've shown this in a recent video actually!
I think if you do it through the XP installer, there's a good chance it won't be aligned. If you format in Win7+, then use the existing partition when installing XP, it should be aligned.
Recently on eBay there was a new HIS X850 Pro for EUR 75, from Germany.
Sold quickly in two days, while I was taking my time whether to take it or not.
Is there anyway to get the 1950XT working under 9x. I've tried forcing various cards but no luck. I wish it would work as mine as an Artic cooler and is very quiet.
Nope.
@@philscomputerlab yeah, I have an 850XT but it's blower is loud it is a very good card. I have a 7900 GTO 256mb on the way which should be fun.
That's interesting 🤔. All of my ATI video cards have more pins in that middle S-video connector.
Thanks for the video, Phil 🍉😉👍!
How well does it play in DOS, is the Commander Keen scrolling smooth?
If so, this could be a great replacement for my 6800GT if my 6800GT breaks again in the future.
Hate me, but I don't care for Commander Keen 😅
@@philscomputerlab I don't blame you but it does give a good indication of MS-Dos compatibility haha. That one, Duke3D and GTA are probably my goto's for testing that.
Commander Keen is choppy in every FireGl card I've ever tried, at least the PCIe ones. Not sure about the AGP versions.
I think you already have the best all around card.
@@jondonnelly3 Definately do which is why I picked it. But 6800GT's aren't always the most reliable cards long term. I already had one die on me and always am open to better options.
Not bad card for retro
Is this card supported in NT 4.0?
What’s the name of the helicopter game Phil?
It's not a game, it's part of the 3dmark 2000 benchmark
DVi is what HDMI became does it support HDMI?
If you use a passive adapter, it will work, but will not have sound.
You can use DVI to HDMI dongle, but no audio.
@@philscomputerlabyou can actually get a special type of adapter called an hdmi audio embedder that will add in optical or line audio into the dvi signal.
Ati cards are not great with dvi to hdmi adaptor, driver bug. Nvidia is flawless for sound I connect to soudbar aux in.
excellent
I'm really tired of AGP cards. I've always had compatibility and driver issues with older Windows.
Issues are with too modern agp cards and W98. Stick with older cards and you will be happy. Best bet with riva tnt2 ==> Geforce 2 ==> Geforce Fx . You can find cheap and stables cards for the W98 era. Then, if you need more power for more modern games Windows xp and pci express rig is the way to go.
@@jeckjeck6943 Even with an FX 5900 Ultra, I find the Win98SE compatibility to be not as good as I'd hoped, and frankly the speed isn't blazing fast for games from 2000-2001, which is still before XP took over.
@@kunka592 Hello. You maybe right. I consider fx cards as an extreme for W98. Geforce Fx were designed for Windows xp. Your fx5900 ultra is a 2003 beast and need a beast of a processor of it's time. For win98 i prefer to stick with older hardware for older games like slot one machines with p2 233 up to p3 1ghz and riva tnt up to Geforce fx5200/5700 that you can find at cheap prices. They wil give you Geforce 4 performances for a lower price. Even a 1 ghz pocessor will bottlneck these cards so performances are not an issue for me. For more modern games i go for windows xp and more modern and also cheaper hardware like core2duos and Geforces cards. Consider also that in 2000/2001 1600/1200 was the 4k of it's time and most of gamers were playing at lower resolutions like 1024/768 or 1280/1024.
Nice rig that.