I’ve heard it actually said that the real thing you need to really worry about is the heads and how you tension them. I have an old premier APK Drum set from the late 90s and I have to admit they sound great. There are three different TH-camrs that have talked about that and the fact is is that the bearing edges are important as well as the heads but not necessarily the wood. The only issue with the wood is.
Drumeo did a blindfold comparison of drums, none of the participants could properly identify shell sounds, other than randomly guess the answers. I loved that because it threw down all the "tone" myth, of course there are differences but are a sum of all elements, not the shell itself, and most important of all, nobody knows what X material sounds like unless you know by chart or by eye what it is.
I would say that wood per se seems to make very little difference. Whereas mass/weight definitely has a decent impact on volume, sustain and certain frequencies. Heads and tuning of course are 50% of the battle. But also how round the drum is, how even the bearing edge is. Because you can’t tune properly a drum that has a sloppy edge. Especially in a low tuning. And then the hoops. Hoops make almost as much difference as a head. A thin triple flange has 20% the attack and low end of a heavy hoop. Maybe brass, maybe a die cast. They’ll almost double the impact of that drum. I’d say tuning>head>hoop>bearing edge quality/type>drum thickness/weight and last wood type. Also the vast majority of the cost in a drum is hardware and finish. A raw shell costs nothing, but 2 good hoops will set you back $100-150 and brass lugs might be another $100. Tuning is always key, but a bad/out of shape/irregular drum is just impossible to tune. And a heads are king but a bad bearing edge won’t allow you to sit that head properly. And so while the type of wood is generally mostly hype, the quality of a drum isn’t.
@Giulio Carmassi Thank you for that great and valuable comparison! I do hear a lot of difference between those woods. I'm on DT 770 Pro headphones fueled by a good sound chip. I could hear the full maple and birch ply even in a blind test. It has a much wider and more complete frequency image. The tone is much more musical and bigger. I learned through out my life as a professional musician on various instruments, that the very expensive instruments are made of expensive woods. And also very important is, how well and how long the wood has been stored and aged. I studied classical and pop music, drums, percussion, timpani and piano in the Hoch's Konservatorium and i play for various acts. A little hint for your playing technique and anyone of us drummers reading, if i may do so: You can improve a lot on where you do hit the drum. Your strokes sound different from each other, because you don't hit the same spot. Try to imagine a small coin in the middle of the drum, where you wanna exactly hit on with both sticks. We drummers can even hit the same spot with two sticks during single strokes only. This is very important on the timpani but also sets apart e.g. a professional studio drummer from an amateur. In addition some of your hits do move with a slight side angle over the head when hitting. That movements angle, the hitting spot and importantly also the velocity of the rebound, how fast the stick will leave after hitting the drum, do shape our tone. Greetings from Frankfurt and all the best! 🙏
This was a very well done experiment!!! I've been playing for fifty years and have seen and heard multiple type tests.....but this really seemed to be the best. There were three that sounded "different" to me...not better or worse, just different. Two of them had the Re-rings so most probably that is part of it. However, they all could be made to sound exactly like the others with a tiny bit of tuning I'm sure. I've always believed Mahogony sounded deeper and darker and Maple had more highs....actually was pretty positive of that fact. Now I'm not so sure and think maybe hardware is the major factor in sound differences. Thanks much! Oh, and I still really dislike the look of DW lugs...surely that must mean something? :)
Great share. Nobody has ever asked me except a drummer what kind of wood are the shells. Best to have great chops, play for the composition, enjoy it and inspire your fellow musicians. Best to focus on abilities. Great drummers can make oat meal boxes sound awesome.
Grazie Giulio per il video! As many of us can tell, there's a very small, if any, difference between the woods. This video just confirms what I suspected: it's mostly the heads that make the difference, basically, you can make cheap drums sound good with good heads, but you can't make good drums sound good with cheap heads. The next thing that make a difference are the bearing edges... and yes, as some comments stated, the actual tuning. It's just my opinion, but this video seems to confirm it. Edit: I'm not considering the hoops and thickness of the shell, which of course make a difference as well. But if we're talking about the woods, veeeery little difference.
I spoke to one of the founders of aquarium heads, Roy Burns. He simply said that you can make any drum set sound good. The reality is some namebrand cheap drums can also sound very good.
@@martincoronado9232 100% I learned to think of a drum more like a speaker box, where the drum head is the speaker and the shell is the box. The other obvious difference is that your technique and sound will change everything. Put Vinnie on a beat up 20 year old first act kit from toys r us and it’ll sound like Vinnie. Meanwhile, a beginner on a custom Craviotto drumset will sound like a beginner.
Hey Kids, You can see and hear here, how strong the influence of Marketing is on your choice of Wood. The main-factor for the Sound is not as much the Material, but much more the Architecture of the Shell (Size/Thickness/Edges) and mostly wich Heads you use. Go out and check for yourself... in different Rooms ... ;-)
I think we need to stop with the up close microphones and overhead microphones but definitely do an audience type microphone Ing situation. I have heard I believe drum shop of Portsmouth out on the East Coast and they would do the three versions of microphone owning. Guess what while the drums sounded great with the up close microphone owningit really sounded different when it was far away and that is where you really notice how those hot and expensive drums don’t sound so hot and expensive anymore
yeah it's all wood, and it's all wood that we find makes good sounding drums lol so it's not gonna be a massive difference but you can hear a difference in the first two maple and birch, the maple has a more round attack and a slightly longer, warmer sustain, and the birch has a more aggressive attack and sounds like it might have a very slightly shorter sustain
I think that's generally the case on most drums, we're lead to believe that the wood makes all the difference to the sound but really it's the combination of wood, shell thickness, bearing edge, hardware, hoops, heads, tunings etc. Wood is arguably the factor that effects the overall sound the least I'd say..
@@DavidGamero what effects the sound less than the wood type then from that list? Having tried a lot of drums from different manufacturers as well as my own experimentation with hoops, bearing edges and heads I honestly think wood is the least influential factor of the overall sound
And just like that 40 years of marketing ploys were blown out of the water. All of these different woods being marketed to us and really the biggest differences are shell construction, bearing edges, and head choices.
@@rtanidean4931 yep. Seems to me the re-rings made the biggest difference as far as construction goes. I'm thinking because it adds weights and obstructs the air flow in a different way.
@@jonathanbormann5077 great ear! Certainly to the keen ear shell material, hardware, add-ons, Re rings (as you wisely point out) effect timbre & resonance. Few notice such, yet most can hear a head swap as I have extensively tested to both musicians & general audience ears. Typically I might select maple for a more open sound then birch for a more articulate sound- to just be a quick overall. I’ve owned so many drums of all types woods, metals and such, including hundreds of pies that I lost count long ago. Much respect to your discerning ear as it may be more aware of nuances than mine. Oh yeah- I have also noticed differences of old growth materials used versus new wood construction sound characters. Personally, I prefer old growth timber with modern accuracy in bearing edge detail. I really enjoy restoring old drums. I have some truly awesome vintage shells. Thx for typing with me. Take care and enjoy the drumming / musical experience. D
They all sound pretty much the same to me. The secret is confirmed! Quality drum heads and proper tuning. I guess I might add, thickness of the shell would make some differences.
So apparently the heads make more sound difference than the type of shell because any differences in these is negligible especially while playing in a band.
Could not tell the difference at all! If so, ever so slight. Hmmm makes you think! As a side note, I think that the tuning was too low for that size of a drum.
Actually you don't tend to hear much difference between drums when they are the same... i.e. they sound like drums ;). Whole series of videos out there about that. That being said, I hear a tonne of difference in the walnut combination woods compared to birch or maple. More deep end. Not sure what my favourite is though - the maple sounded so clean. The maple poplar got a little bit of those low tones that the walnut had. And those low tones were nice to hear in the darker woods. Nice comparison. Im on the verge of trying to make my own drums and want to play with geometry.
I was thinking that.. very 'slappy' single ply head, tuned super low, seemed that it was a concert Tom.... At least the tuning was consistent, but a slight tweak on the front head would make it a lot more resonant, and less like lars' JfA kit sound. Very little body, and lots of stick 'slap' and as sticks so flat, we are probably hearing rimshots mostly. Sorry, I'm being picky, even through my stereo sounded almost the same as the skin isn't given a chance to react to the sound edge, too much flat sticking. I am very impressed I found you doing these trials, Maybe lifting the heads slightly will give a very different outcome. I have kicked the crap out of a tama swingstar for forty plus years, held together with stickers as wraps started lifting. No idea about timbers, the two kicks will NOT work together as one is sprayed in a speckled paint surface while the other is naked. I use a tama original iron cobra, lefty set out me $200 more than standard, from '92-3, and even though rarely separated, even the universal CVs are as tight as new!! All in all a really filthy beast, but even with a new set of pinstripes a 2-4wks b4 recording, it has always come together well after all this time. As I have sustained spinal injuries that have stopped the 2-3 bands plus work lifestyle, but being the thing that I believe in and enjoy so much, I want to put her away for now, buy a Roland digital kit to play at home, and start building my ultimate drum kit shells myself, and buy the hardware, and it might even become a hobby- Craft beer? Crafter drums!! Thankyou for your work!!
Great video, thanks a lot! I find it very interesting that the maple and birch shells - weighing almost the same - sound practically identical. The real difference in sound comes with increasing weight: the heavier the shell, the more honky it sounds. That being said, all of the presented wood types seem to be suitable for a decent drum. :)
Through headphones, there are obvious differences . I have always played mahogany drums, and they sound exactly like yours. I really love the maple though. In any event, nice job with this comparison.
The mahogany drums sounded ever so slightly deeper. I listen to this video 10 times. Birch and maple sounded identical. I think I heard more snare bleed with the Maple/ Poplar/Maple with the maple rings.
Great and revealing comparison 👍 With good headphones, there were some differences in tone. Seems that the mixed wood shells or at least the shells with poplar tended to sound a bit muted and weaker than all maple or all birch. Of course, being an acoustic instrument, there are so many different factors that affect to the final sound, so it's definitely not just the wood. Thanks for the comparison
Have you ever heard someone walk into a room where someone's playing drums and they say.... 'Wow! That is a great Birch kit!' -or 'maple drums!' -or 'Mahogany & Bubinga'! I sure haven't. People hear with their eyes. Put 6 Tom's with different woods on here without telling what they are and all these people who think they're so smart with drum tones are suddenly making excuses.... or not guessing cuz they can't tell. Drumwood is marketing! Jim Catalano of ludwig said- Those revered shells from the 60's were crudely cobbled together. "They would spray the insides white to make them match. One inside ply might be mahogany, the other Basswood, Maple - whatever. Yet those are the drums people swear by as the best sounding drums in the world"
Hi Martin , I'm the guy you never heard of ! LOL ! I'm not replying to start a pissing contest . I've been playing drums since I was 10 and I'm 68 years old . I have been a cabinet maker for 48 years and i can tell you that in solid wood there is definitely a sound difference and yes I can tell the difference . I really heard that difference 36 years ago when a dolly full of cherry pieces landed on the floor , I knew it was the cherry and not the birch or the red oak pieces that were also on the shop floor at the time . There is a definite difference and my ears told me so . I have at my woodworking shop right now 6 different pieces of wood that I am waiting to show a drummer friend who is also of the same opinion as yourself , the difference in the sound of different woods . Having said this , veneer found on the outside of the drum is very thin compared to the inner plies , so to me the inner plies are what you are hearing and re-rings also make a difference in sound . And in response to Ludwig being the " best sounding drums " , well thats just an opinion , I'm a Rogers guy , have been ever since I got my Rogers kit when I was 16 . And I agree with Mr Catalanos assessment I also make drums , repair , restore drums and I turn my own drumsticks . And stick species ALSO effects the sound ! I've made sticks from everything just to see for myself and stick choice does matter . Back to Ludwig , Ringo Starr created a HUGE demand for Ludwig drums and the factory was running 24 hours so yea the quality is LACKING in those drums and Ludwig made that era of drums with a " scarf joint " so the shell wasn't completely round !!! And thats why Ludwig always had that " hummmph " sound . ( I don't know how else to explain it ) I didn't like that sound . When I first heard a Rogers kit I immediately " knew " that , that was the sound that I liked . Birch , 3 ply with 3 ply re-rings , and yes I've taken a piece of a drum shell apart ply by ply to see for myself . And the guy playing those Rogers was " The Professor " , who was about 16 years old at the time . You got to realize that most drummers at the time had Ludwig and Rogers sounded different and more to my liking . I can go on but I've written a novel . Let me know what you think .
@@kevinsloan5570 I appreciate everybody has an opinion. I do believe different wood can make different sounds on a acoustic guitar. How I drew my conclusion on drum wood? After listening to drums of the same size with different woods being played one after the other, They sounded the same.
@@wannafightfilms I have the MMX Pearl ( 4ply ) + reinforce rings. Except of the Mahogany I didn't hear big sound character difference untill I heard the now to me KNOWN and for sure specific sound of a drum with the rings.. never realized it before.. Thanks for this vid!
Drum Wood is marketing. If there's a difference it's so subtle it's mostly unrecognizable. Marketing is very important for selling things. You got to have the magic Mojo, and the only way to get the magic Mojo is with our special tonewoods LOL! Did you ever in your life listen to a drum set and say to someone, that's a maple drum set. Or that's a birch drum set. The reason you've never said it, and no one else has ever said it, is because you can't tell the difference. The people who claim they can tell the difference, need to hear a blind test where they can't see what they're hearing. Anyone can be right 100% of the time if they know and can see what they're hearing.
As many have said, small differences in sound. But in this comparison, I prefer the mixed wood shells. The shells made exclusively from either maple or birch are kinda "boomy" in this recording, for my liking and also sound the same to me. Nice sound with the reinforcement ring, different from the rest. It's all just a matter of preference.
I now understand when people say Birch has a slightly scooped EQd feel. There was a noticeable difference in the trail of resonance. That being said. Functionally. These all sound about the damn same. Don’t sweat the wood guys, most of the audio mythology surrounding different species have more to do with economics and availability. Personally I pick based on what looks good knowing that if it’s well made it will sound almost identical to another species for 99% of human ears.
all maple or all birch are brighter sounding in this video. every combination of woods is darker. even with very subtle differences between them, I would say that there are two easily identifiable tones here... 6p maple or 6p birch = a bit brighter. everything else in this video a little darker. and once you sit with it for a few minutes, you won't notice it all that much any more, I bet.
Definitely preferred the maple. Sharp attack, clear fundamental, nice warm body. Birch had that nasally overtone series in it that confirms my suspicions that it is in fact the wood that makes me hate recording certain kits.
Well, this should put an end to the endless and moot discussion about different wood types. Well done and well executed. I have had a feeling that drum manufacturers is a bit like skin product manufacturers. Touting different non existing, and non discerneable, gimmicks to create a hype. A well built, round shell with reasonable accurate edges, well tuned with heads that suit the musical style is probably all you need.
I've been thinking about what else to make drums out of lately, like what if we created a shell pack from something like those popcorn and cookie tins? If they don't warp under the tension, I think it could be a neat experiment.
Tutti interessanti per motivi diversi...intanto Keller conferma di essere un costruttore eccellente....li vorrei avere tutti a cambiarli a piacimento..se fossi costretto a scergliene uno....forse il fusto con rinforzi..infatti ho una ds con i rinforzi
There aren't many differences in sound the thicker the shell gets, this much is true. Obviously, Mahogany is such a dark and short tone that it's going to stand out a bit more under the conditions presented here. The true differences come when you start building the ultra-thin shells that are very popular in this era. The wood vibrates more and the tonal differences begin to take shape and become much more obvious. Another aspect of shell sound that is very interesting between maple and birch in both medium and thicker ply shells, is that maple tends to have a more present attack and sound bigger in shallow depths, while birch gets bigger sounding the deeper the shell gets, and without losing attack. It's a cool juxtaposition that you can use to your advantage if you want to assemble a truly custom kit with shells, hardware, and heads that YOU choose.
Lemme say this. One thing is hearing the drum in reality, and the other in mix. Ive played basswood, poplar, birch and maple drums. Only the latter two are decent. Birch is nice but maple is the most full and rich in sound.
This video goes to show that it’s not the wood that makes or breaks a kit, it’s the way you tune and look after it. The real difference in woods comes from the volume and presence in person - when it comes to recording the right tuning can make all the difference
As a novice builder, I’m amazed at how similar they sound. It just goes to show that most of the sound is coming from the heads. The bitch sounded a little different between a few but I think that’s a tuning thing.
greatest typo. haha :) I agree, the wood type seems to be largely not as influential as the thickness and weight of the shell. And even then it's a balance. Thinner shells in small drums sound super warm and wide, but in bigger drums they don't seem to be able to resonate nearly as much and they don't hold a perfect round shape as well. But thicker shells in small sizes seem a bit dead and dry, if loud and powerful. Also re-rings seem to make the drum much more muffled and dead as well. But the actual type of wood seems to be a very small factor. I can see simple maple working for absolutely anything. Also the bearing edges make a huge difference in how the drum feels and how the head vibrates. Not so much the angle as much as sharp edge, vs, round fluffy edge. :)
@@giuliocarmassi hahaha, damn Auto correct. Yes, I completely agree. As long as the bearing edge is off the collar ( why do companies still do this?) I think those “vintage west coast” type edges are marketing nonsense. My general go-to is a double 45 with a slight round over for batter side and a sharp double 45 on the reso side with a slightly thicker one ply head to add sustain.
What I heard was Birch had the least low tom rubble , I think it actually disappeared then Maple which I thought would have more low overtones but pleasantly surprised.
This just proves that good heads are very important and all the hype about special wood and blended woods are pretty much a marketing gimmick very little difference that i could hear and your audience you are playing won't be able to tell any difference like i said i could hear just a little bit of difference.
after the last dcp video on sq2 comparison: shell thickness /wood selection didn't make a lot of difference : particularly on the smaller toms. I think that what makes expensive drums sound better is: - the shell is regular (no air bubbles while the glue dried, is it round- square) - tight tolerances in machining/hand finishing of bearing edges - come with non cheap heads -better hoops -good tom suspension and..well.. USUALLY (and i saw some bad stuff..lol): when you are at a point of spending that much of money on expensive drums : you're most likely an experienced musician, therefore what you'll play, will sound better! ..and have better gear to record soooo,,, the wood type!?... fffff
seems like they're so similar, it would be better/truer to use a single ply head (ambassador) for the batter instead of a two ply head. (Vintage ambassador is not really vintage as it's 2 ply). I think 2 ply heads make all drums sound kinda the same.
Nah- just more marketed woods. Mostly based on availability and ease to work with. That’s all. I know!!!! Poplar, beech, blah blah blah. Better to focus on having good chops. 😊❤
Interesting video that probably confirms that I do not have very good ears ... I admit I watched the video on a MacBook and I did not use head- or earphones, but the only thing I was able to notice is that the drumsticks used have a different pitch. Or are my ears so bad that the only thing I was able to notice is wrong?
It's a great video idea...however the video edits cut off the sustain! How the fundamental drops off is everything, now it's just a stick attack comparison throughout, same thing on the other videos posted like reso head comparisons. :(
For some strange reason I want to hear what a drum set made from apple wood sounds like 😂 Currently, I’m using birch! I feel like it sustains a bit longer.
Ok so I’m gonna make another comment here but I’m gonna point a few things out: first off, the first maple vs birch battle? I heard no difference at all. The second one? I actually did hear a difference! Quite a difference actually. But anyways… maybe one day if you have the time and the want to, maybe you could do this again but with a bottom mic as well as the top, and you could flip the polarity on the bottom mic. That way, we can capture the entire Tom sound and not just half of it. But either way this is a great video and I still heard a bit of a difference between them.
Nah. Save double head and room ambient micing for studio maybe- although unusual. Sometimes you can double mic snare and BD. But usually not that big a difference. Plus- I’ve NEVER seen any drummer running double mics on drums especially not Tom’s. But hey- if your ear hears something different & ya wanna do it?- then by all means DO IT. Enjoy and drum on. D😊
@@rtanidean4931 I heard from a local builder that the only difference is in the remo heads. Apparently they don’t make consistent heads. So, yes. I plan on doing that. 2 mics, different woods, evans or Aquarian heads, blind test and visual EQ test.
@@N617A I’m sure there’s the exception as I clearly typed, some may. A top level audiologist or engineer is generally much more keen and skilled than myself. I hit shit and make sounds. No big secret there, but many have let me know how good my drums record and sound live. I can assure everyone that knowing how to skillfully TUNE and instrument is the biggest factor in achieving a fundamentally acceptable sound for all. I applaud all who go to crazy lengths to get the best out of their instruments and interactions of it within composition. Thx for point out. Drum on. D
@@N617A Do what you want, but I think you misinterpret what I meant by heads selections. Not really about manufacturers as much as type of heads integrated onto the drum. For instance- an example: If I seek a more open sound in general, I might choose a single ply clear perhaps coated for a bit warmer character. If I seek a more articulate sound, I might choose a 2 ply head, maybe even hydraulic. Whether you choose Remo, Evans, Aquarian or whoever isn’t that big a thing generally. I’ve literally played every manufacturers heads at some point along the way to my awareness, Along with the hundreds of options / models / plus and gadgets too. Been playing and recording professionally for over 45 years. First professional gig was at 15 years old - Jimmy McDaniels Band drummer at live venues and while doing a Saturday morning TV show in Indpls playing g drums. I have been extremely grateful and one lucky lil drummer boy. 🤷♂️😁🎵
Thanks, I can now stop thinking about my drum kit and wood and concentrate on practicing and playing music.
I’ve heard it actually said that the real thing you need to really worry about is the heads and how you tension them. I have an old premier APK Drum set from the late 90s and I have to admit they sound great. There are three different TH-camrs that have talked about that and the fact is is that the bearing edges are important as well as the heads but not necessarily the wood. The only issue with the wood is.
This is perhaps the first I have ever seen anyone do such a comparison video. Very nice!
Drumeo did a blindfold comparison of drums, none of the participants could properly identify shell sounds, other than randomly guess the answers.
I loved that because it threw down all the "tone" myth, of course there are differences but are a sum of all elements, not the shell itself, and most important of all, nobody knows what X material sounds like unless you know by chart or by eye what it is.
I would say that wood per se seems to make very little difference. Whereas mass/weight definitely has a decent impact on volume, sustain and certain frequencies. Heads and tuning of course are 50% of the battle. But also how round the drum is, how even the bearing edge is. Because you can’t tune properly a drum that has a sloppy edge. Especially in a low tuning. And then the hoops. Hoops make almost as much difference as a head. A thin triple flange has 20% the attack and low end of a heavy hoop. Maybe brass, maybe a die cast. They’ll almost double the impact of that drum. I’d say tuning>head>hoop>bearing edge quality/type>drum thickness/weight and last wood type. Also the vast majority of the cost in a drum is hardware and finish. A raw shell costs nothing, but 2 good hoops will set you back $100-150 and brass lugs might be another $100. Tuning is always key, but a bad/out of shape/irregular drum is just impossible to tune. And a heads are king but a bad bearing edge won’t allow you to sit that head properly. And so while the type of wood is generally mostly hype, the quality of a drum isn’t.
@Giulio Carmassi is 100% correct!
Marketing....
Well said!! Thank you very much for this explanation!
Much appreciated
@Giulio Carmassi Thank you for that great and valuable comparison! I do hear a lot of difference between those woods. I'm on DT 770 Pro headphones fueled by a good sound chip. I could hear the full maple and birch ply even in a blind test. It has a much wider and more complete frequency image. The tone is much more musical and bigger. I learned through out my life as a professional musician on various instruments, that the very expensive instruments are made of expensive woods. And also very important is, how well and how long the wood has been stored and aged. I studied classical and pop music, drums, percussion, timpani and piano in the Hoch's Konservatorium and i play for various acts.
A little hint for your playing technique and anyone of us drummers reading, if i may do so: You can improve a lot on where you do hit the drum. Your strokes sound different from each other, because you don't hit the same spot. Try to imagine a small coin in the middle of the drum, where you wanna exactly hit on with both sticks. We drummers can even hit the same spot with two sticks during single strokes only. This is very important on the timpani but also sets apart e.g. a professional studio drummer from an amateur. In addition some of your hits do move with a slight side angle over the head when hitting. That movements angle, the hitting spot and importantly also the velocity of the rebound, how fast the stick will leave after hitting the drum, do shape our tone. Greetings from Frankfurt and all the best! 🙏
The differences are so small that EQ'ing and effects during recording are really the only way to make BIG differences in drum sound.
AND choice of the heads we use as well as the mics we choose. : )
tuning
Totally agree!!
@@skyko for sure
Definitely prefer the basic maple and birch shells. Thanks for posting this!
The basic maple has a deeper resonance
This was a very well done experiment!!! I've been playing for fifty years and have seen and heard multiple type tests.....but this really seemed to be the best. There were three that sounded "different" to me...not better or worse, just different. Two of them had the Re-rings so most probably that is part of it. However, they all could be made to sound exactly like the others with a tiny bit of tuning I'm sure. I've always believed Mahogony sounded deeper and darker and Maple had more highs....actually was pretty positive of that fact. Now I'm not so sure and think maybe hardware is the major factor in sound differences. Thanks much! Oh, and I still really dislike the look of DW lugs...surely that must mean something? :)
You should do this video again at different tunings and see if there are any differences at a lower or higher fundamental!
I agree
I believe you're correct. At a low tuning you're getting more head sound.
Great share. Nobody has ever asked me except a drummer what kind of wood are the shells. Best to have great chops, play for the composition, enjoy it and inspire your fellow musicians. Best to focus on abilities.
Great drummers can make oat meal boxes sound awesome.
I've always suspected that shell material makes a minimal difference. Most noticeable difference was the Mahogany
Grazie Giulio per il video! As many of us can tell, there's a very small, if any, difference between the woods. This video just confirms what I suspected: it's mostly the heads that make the difference, basically, you can make cheap drums sound good with good heads, but you can't make good drums sound good with cheap heads. The next thing that make a difference are the bearing edges... and yes, as some comments stated, the actual tuning.
It's just my opinion, but this video seems to confirm it.
Edit: I'm not considering the hoops and thickness of the shell, which of course make a difference as well. But if we're talking about the woods, veeeery little difference.
I love when people realize that the shell doesn't have as much to do with the sound than the heads, at least when comparing different wood shells.
I spoke to one of the founders of aquarium heads, Roy Burns. He simply said that you can make any drum set sound good. The reality is some namebrand cheap drums can also sound very good.
@@martincoronado9232 100% I learned to think of a drum more like a speaker box, where the drum head is the speaker and the shell is the box.
The other obvious difference is that your technique and sound will change everything. Put Vinnie on a beat up 20 year old first act kit from toys r us and it’ll sound like Vinnie. Meanwhile, a beginner on a custom Craviotto drumset will sound like a beginner.
Hey Kids,
You can see and hear here, how strong the influence of Marketing is on your choice of Wood. The main-factor for the Sound is not as much the Material, but much more the Architecture of the Shell (Size/Thickness/Edges) and mostly wich Heads you use. Go out and check for yourself... in different Rooms ...
;-)
I think we need to stop with the up close microphones and overhead microphones but definitely do an audience type microphone Ing situation. I have heard I believe drum shop of Portsmouth out on the East Coast and they would do the three versions of microphone owning. Guess what while the drums sounded great with the up close microphone owningit really sounded different when it was far away and that is where you really notice how those hot and expensive drums don’t sound so hot and expensive anymore
everything sounded similar at the beginning until that’s first maple drum, that first maple drum really stood out.
"The first maple drum..." The first drum was maple. What do you mean?
Yeah, I would say the maple was the only standout to me.
Is it just me or was there very little in the difference between the birch and maple drums?
yeah it's all wood, and it's all wood that we find makes good sounding drums lol so it's not gonna be a massive difference but you can hear a difference in the first two maple and birch, the maple has a more round attack and a slightly longer, warmer sustain, and the birch has a more aggressive attack and sounds like it might have a very slightly shorter sustain
With the drum tuned that low more sound comes from the head as there's less tension forcing fewer vibrations into the shell.
I think that's generally the case on most drums, we're lead to believe that the wood makes all the difference to the sound but really it's the combination of wood, shell thickness, bearing edge, hardware, hoops, heads, tunings etc. Wood is arguably the factor that effects the overall sound the least I'd say..
@@bentaylordrums definitely not the least out of everything you mentioned
@@DavidGamero what effects the sound less than the wood type then from that list? Having tried a lot of drums from different manufacturers as well as my own experimentation with hoops, bearing edges and heads I honestly think wood is the least influential factor of the overall sound
Walnut/maple/walnut sounded sooo amazing. I have a full maple drum set, but the maple/poplar/maple sounded just as great
Yeah walnut sounded the best to my ears... As much as I'm a maple kit guy, I could see myself going down the walnut road...
And just like that 40 years of marketing ploys were blown out of the water. All of these different woods being marketed to us and really the biggest differences are shell construction, bearing edges, and head choices.
No doubt!
Exactly. With the biggest difference being an immediate notice to one’s ears is
🥁 (roll) plz…
HEAD SELECTION & of course tuning. Period.
@@rtanidean4931 yep. Seems to me the re-rings made the biggest difference as far as construction goes. I'm thinking because it adds weights and obstructs the air flow in a different way.
@@jonathanbormann5077 great ear! Certainly to the keen ear shell material, hardware, add-ons, Re rings (as you wisely point out) effect timbre & resonance. Few notice such, yet most can hear a head swap as I have extensively tested to both musicians & general audience ears. Typically I might select maple for a more open sound then birch for a more articulate sound- to just be a quick overall. I’ve owned so many drums of all types woods, metals and such, including hundreds of pies that I lost count long ago. Much respect to your discerning ear as it may be more aware of nuances than mine. Oh yeah- I have also noticed differences of old growth materials used versus new wood construction sound characters. Personally, I prefer old growth timber with modern accuracy in bearing edge detail. I really enjoy restoring old drums. I have some truly awesome vintage shells. Thx for typing with me. Take care and enjoy the drumming / musical experience. D
Mahogany is really unique!
I love mahogany. So warm. My favourite wood for snares.
Good comparison. very subtle differences..
I expected more deeper tones with Maple...Mmmmmthx for the share
Giulio, you’re a hero for putting this together. Thank you!
They all sound pretty much the same to me. The secret is confirmed! Quality drum heads and proper tuning. I guess I might add, thickness of the shell would make some differences.
So apparently the heads make more sound difference than the type of shell because any differences in these is negligible especially while playing in a band.
There are differences if you pay attention. But they are subtle. It’ll get lost in the mix once all the other instruments are recorded.
Wow the maple poplar one is awesome. My next drum kit will be maple poplar for sure thanks to this clip lol!!!
Awesome test. Very well executed.
I liked the Maple/Polar/Maple with Re-rings best. Also the Mahogany sounds really good to me. Thanks for doing this!
Checkout Tama star mahogany.
Great story!
Could not tell the difference at all! If so, ever so slight. Hmmm makes you think! As a side note, I think that the tuning was too low for that size of a drum.
I think thats part of why they sounded so similar. The shells are barely resonating. Its all head. Tuned too low.
Actually you don't tend to hear much difference between drums when they are the same... i.e. they sound like drums ;). Whole series of videos out there about that. That being said, I hear a tonne of difference in the walnut combination woods compared to birch or maple. More deep end. Not sure what my favourite is though - the maple sounded so clean. The maple poplar got a little bit of those low tones that the walnut had. And those low tones were nice to hear in the darker woods. Nice comparison. Im on the verge of trying to make my own drums and want to play with geometry.
I was thinking that.. very 'slappy' single ply head, tuned super low, seemed that it was a concert Tom....
At least the tuning was consistent, but a slight tweak on the front head would make it a lot more resonant, and less like lars' JfA kit sound.
Very little body, and lots of stick 'slap' and as sticks so flat, we are probably hearing rimshots mostly.
Sorry, I'm being picky, even through my stereo sounded almost the same as the skin isn't given a chance to react to the sound edge, too much flat sticking.
I am very impressed I found you doing these trials,
Maybe lifting the heads slightly will give a very different outcome.
I have kicked the crap out of a tama swingstar for forty plus years, held together with stickers as wraps started lifting. No idea about timbers, the two kicks will NOT work together as one is sprayed in a speckled paint surface while the other is naked.
I use a tama original iron cobra, lefty set out me $200 more than standard, from '92-3, and even though rarely separated, even the universal CVs are as tight as new!! All in all a really filthy beast, but even with a new set of pinstripes a 2-4wks b4 recording, it has always come together well after all this time.
As I have sustained spinal injuries that have stopped the 2-3 bands plus work lifestyle, but being the thing that I believe in and enjoy so much, I want to put her away for now, buy a Roland digital kit to play at home, and start building my ultimate drum kit shells myself, and buy the hardware, and it might even become a hobby-
Craft beer? Crafter drums!!
Thankyou for your work!!
That's a great comparison video. Thank you - very interesting!
Great video, thanks a lot! I find it very interesting that the maple and birch shells - weighing almost the same - sound practically identical. The real difference in sound comes with increasing weight: the heavier the shell, the more honky it sounds. That being said, all of the presented wood types seem to be suitable for a decent drum. :)
Through headphones, there are obvious differences . I have always played mahogany drums, and they sound exactly like yours. I really love the maple though. In any event, nice job with this comparison.
Oriollo drums is challenging all the wood theoricians of the drums manufacture while giving a favor to the trees 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Great comparison, thank you! Some subtle differences, but more similarities. My favorite is the Maple/Poplar/Maple without re-rings. Cheers!
Thanks for taking the time to do it! It clearly demonstrates how wood reacts! Thank you!
Thank you so much for this. I wan't sure if the type of wood mattered that much, but now I know.
The mahogany drums sounded ever so slightly deeper. I listen to this video 10 times. Birch and maple sounded identical. I think I heard more snare bleed with the Maple/ Poplar/Maple with the maple rings.
Maple sounded the most "open"
I was expecting the Birch to be a lot more pronounced in the high frequencies than the maple but they were similar.
Great and revealing comparison 👍
With good headphones, there were some differences in tone. Seems that the mixed wood shells or at least the shells with poplar tended to sound a bit muted and weaker than all maple or all birch.
Of course, being an acoustic instrument, there are so many different factors that affect to the final sound, so it's definitely not just the wood.
Thanks for the comparison
Have you ever heard someone walk into a room where someone's playing drums and they say....
'Wow! That is a great Birch kit!'
-or 'maple drums!'
-or 'Mahogany & Bubinga'!
I sure haven't.
People hear with their eyes.
Put 6 Tom's with different woods on here without telling what they are and all these people who think they're so smart with drum tones are suddenly making excuses.... or not guessing cuz they can't tell.
Drumwood is marketing!
Jim Catalano of ludwig said-
Those revered shells from the 60's were crudely cobbled together.
"They would spray the insides white to make them match. One inside ply might be mahogany, the other Basswood, Maple - whatever. Yet those are the drums people swear by as the best sounding drums in the world"
Hi Martin , I'm the guy you never heard of ! LOL ! I'm not replying to start a pissing contest . I've been playing drums since I was 10 and I'm 68 years old . I have been a cabinet maker for 48 years and i can tell you that in solid wood there is definitely a sound difference and yes I can tell the difference . I really heard that difference 36 years ago when a dolly full of cherry pieces landed on the floor , I knew it was the cherry and not the birch or the red oak pieces that were also on the shop floor at the time . There is a definite difference and my ears told me so . I have at my woodworking shop right now 6 different pieces of wood that I am waiting to show a drummer friend who is also of the same opinion as yourself , the difference in the sound of different woods . Having said this , veneer found on the outside of the drum is very thin compared to the inner plies , so to me the inner plies are what you are hearing and re-rings also make a difference in sound . And in response to Ludwig being the " best sounding drums " , well thats just an opinion , I'm a Rogers guy , have been ever since I got my Rogers kit when I was 16 . And I agree with Mr Catalanos assessment I also make drums , repair , restore drums and I turn my own drumsticks . And stick species ALSO effects the sound ! I've made sticks from everything just to see for myself and stick choice does matter . Back to Ludwig , Ringo Starr created a HUGE demand for Ludwig drums and the factory was running 24 hours so yea the quality is LACKING in those drums and Ludwig made that era of drums with a " scarf joint " so the shell wasn't completely round !!! And thats why Ludwig always had that " hummmph " sound . ( I don't know how else to explain it ) I didn't like that sound . When I first heard a Rogers kit I immediately " knew " that , that was the sound that I liked . Birch , 3 ply with 3 ply re-rings , and yes I've taken a piece of a drum shell apart ply by ply to see for myself . And the guy playing those Rogers was " The Professor " , who was about 16 years old at the time . You got to realize that most drummers at the time had Ludwig and Rogers sounded different and more to my liking . I can go on but I've written a novel . Let me know what you think .
@@kevinsloan5570 I appreciate everybody has an opinion.
I do believe different wood can make different sounds on a acoustic guitar. How I drew my conclusion on drum wood?
After listening to drums of the same size with different woods being played one after the other, They sounded the same.
Awesome and VERY well done . . . no fancy drum show off licks, just - here are the shell constructions, here are the samples! WELL DONE!!!
There are three other TH-camrs who have made this simple discovery-The drums all pretty much sound the same except with some nuances.
This is awesome. If they were all stave drums or solid shells in some way, there would probably be an even more noticeable difference.
You wouldn't know either until someone tells you.
Good comparison....I liked the walnut best.
Would have been interesting to see the graph from a frequency analyzer from each. Probably a free phone app could be used
6 Ply Maple sounds great, also the Birch.
The re-ring surprised me, I thought it had a very desirable effect on the sound. I never thought they made a sound difference.
They always tend to suit Ambassadors and thinner skins better in my opinion, more fuller sounding especially when pitched up.
@@wannafightfilms I have the MMX Pearl ( 4ply ) + reinforce rings. Except of the Mahogany I didn't hear big sound character difference untill I heard the now to me KNOWN and for sure specific sound of a drum with the rings.. never realized it before.. Thanks for this vid!
Drum Wood is marketing. If there's a difference it's so subtle it's mostly unrecognizable.
Marketing is very important for selling things. You got to have the magic Mojo, and the only way to get the magic Mojo is with our special tonewoods LOL! Did you ever in your life listen to a drum set and say to someone, that's a maple drum set. Or that's a birch drum set. The reason you've never said it, and no one else has ever said it, is because you can't tell the difference. The people who claim they can tell the difference, need to hear a blind test where they can't see what they're hearing. Anyone can be right 100% of the time if they know and can see what they're hearing.
As many have said, small differences in sound. But in this comparison, I prefer the mixed wood shells. The shells made exclusively from either maple or birch are kinda "boomy" in this recording, for my liking and also sound the same to me. Nice sound with the reinforcement ring, different from the rest. It's all just a matter of preference.
Last one - Walnut/.../.../... got my vote.
I now understand when people say Birch has a slightly scooped EQd feel. There was a noticeable difference in the trail of resonance.
That being said. Functionally. These all sound about the damn same.
Don’t sweat the wood guys, most of the audio mythology surrounding different species have more to do with economics and availability. Personally I pick based on what looks good knowing that if it’s well made it will sound almost identical to another species for 99% of human ears.
This is some impressive and in depth stuff heck good job
Wow… Great video… Very informative… That reinforcement ring made a way bigger difference than I would’ve thought… Interesting… Well done… Thank you!
all maple or all birch are brighter sounding in this video. every combination of woods is darker. even with very subtle differences between them, I would say that there are two easily identifiable tones here... 6p maple or 6p birch = a bit brighter. everything else in this video a little darker. and once you sit with it for a few minutes, you won't notice it all that much any more, I bet.
Definitely preferred the maple. Sharp attack, clear fundamental, nice warm body. Birch had that nasally overtone series in it that confirms my suspicions that it is in fact the wood that makes me hate recording certain kits.
Well, this should put an end to the endless and moot discussion about different wood types. Well done and well executed. I have had a feeling that drum manufacturers is a bit like skin product manufacturers. Touting different non existing, and non discerneable, gimmicks to create a hype. A well built, round shell with reasonable accurate edges, well tuned with heads that suit the musical style is probably all you need.
Walnut/Maple/Walnut 👑
thank you!
Could you list the different thicknesses of the shells?
Birch!
Reinforcement rings made a slight difference
I've been thinking about what else to make drums out of lately, like what if we created a shell pack from something like those popcorn and cookie tins? If they don't warp under the tension, I think it could be a neat experiment.
Tutti interessanti per motivi diversi...intanto Keller conferma di essere un costruttore eccellente....li vorrei avere tutti a cambiarli a piacimento..se fossi costretto a scergliene uno....forse il fusto con
rinforzi..infatti ho una ds con i rinforzi
Great video! Thanks
Olá
Fantástico o seu vídeo !
Comparações de sons bem esclarecedoras !
Saúde e Luz.
An overhead room mic would be good, to hear the resonance and overall vibe
What really matters is the bearing edge style of the drum and the way it’s mounted. A
👍🏻
There aren't many differences in sound the thicker the shell gets, this much is true. Obviously, Mahogany is such a dark and short tone that it's going to stand out a bit more under the conditions presented here.
The true differences come when you start building the ultra-thin shells that are very popular in this era. The wood vibrates more and the tonal differences begin to take shape and become much more obvious.
Another aspect of shell sound that is very interesting between maple and birch in both medium and thicker ply shells, is that maple tends to have a more present attack and sound bigger in shallow depths, while birch gets bigger sounding the deeper the shell gets, and without losing attack.
It's a cool juxtaposition that you can use to your advantage if you want to assemble a truly custom kit with shells, hardware, and heads that YOU choose.
I liked the maple , or maple/poplar/maple
Lemme say this. One thing is hearing the drum in reality, and the other in mix. Ive played basswood, poplar, birch and maple drums. Only the latter two are decent. Birch is nice but maple is the most full and rich in sound.
I'd like to hear Pine please :)
This video goes to show that it’s not the wood that makes or breaks a kit, it’s the way you tune and look after it.
The real difference in woods comes from the volume and presence in person - when it comes to recording the right tuning can make all the difference
As a novice builder, I’m amazed at how similar they sound. It just goes to show that most of the sound is coming from the heads. The bitch sounded a little different between a few but I think that’s a tuning thing.
greatest typo. haha :) I agree, the wood type seems to be largely not as influential as the thickness and weight of the shell. And even then it's a balance. Thinner shells in small drums sound super warm and wide, but in bigger drums they don't seem to be able to resonate nearly as much and they don't hold a perfect round shape as well. But thicker shells in small sizes seem a bit dead and dry, if loud and powerful. Also re-rings seem to make the drum much more muffled and dead as well. But the actual type of wood seems to be a very small factor. I can see simple maple working for absolutely anything. Also the bearing edges make a huge difference in how the drum feels and how the head vibrates. Not so much the angle as much as sharp edge, vs, round fluffy edge. :)
@@giuliocarmassi hahaha, damn Auto correct. Yes, I completely agree. As long as the bearing edge is off the collar ( why do companies still do this?) I think those “vintage west coast” type edges are marketing nonsense. My general go-to is a double 45 with a slight round over for batter side and a sharp double 45 on the reso side with a slightly thicker one ply head to add sustain.
What I heard was Birch had the least low tom rubble , I think it actually disappeared then Maple which I thought would have more low overtones but pleasantly surprised.
Interesting.. Pure wood shells sounded uncoloured. Mixed ply shells had more overtones.
This just proves that good heads are very important and all the hype about special wood and blended woods are pretty much a marketing gimmick very little difference that i could hear and your audience you are playing won't be able to tell any difference like i said i could hear just a little bit of difference.
after the last dcp video on sq2 comparison: shell thickness /wood selection didn't make a lot of difference : particularly on the smaller toms. I think that what makes expensive drums sound better is:
- the shell is regular (no air bubbles while the glue dried, is it round- square)
- tight tolerances in machining/hand finishing of bearing edges
- come with non cheap heads
-better hoops
-good tom suspension
and..well.. USUALLY (and i saw some bad stuff..lol): when you are at a point of spending that much of money on expensive drums : you're most likely an experienced musician, therefore what you'll play, will sound better!
..and have better gear to record
soooo,,, the wood type!?... fffff
seems like they're so similar, it would be better/truer to use a single ply head (ambassador) for the batter instead of a two ply head. (Vintage ambassador is not really vintage as it's 2 ply). I think 2 ply heads make all drums sound kinda the same.
interesting the re rings seem to sound more meaty or less clean which i like.. other than that no real diff
It's a good comparison video thanks for the effort. Those who found there is no difference in sound hit the like button. 😉😉😂
I was waiting for the drum to break off the mount thing was moving so much lol need a thicker L rod or something looks so weak
Maple and birch is top singing voice
Nah- just more marketed woods. Mostly based on availability and ease to work with. That’s all.
I know!!!! Poplar, beech, blah blah blah. Better to focus on having good chops. 😊❤
Tuning is too low to compare
No it's not, put some headphones on there's a difference between them all
big request here, but can you do the same thing but with higher ( jazz ) tuning?
It's in the works! With more sizes as well. Just a master comparison with more woods, and both high and low tunings.
The one with poplar/oak and re rings sounds really muffled
Its all about the MARKETING. Now take those drums and go to a club or a 20000 seat arena and play and see what difference it makes. NONE.
how many mm thick are the 6ply shells?
Mohagany/Poplar/Mohagany sounded the best imo
if this was a blind test i'm cant said wath shell was playing
Interesting video that probably confirms that I do not have very good ears ... I admit I watched the video on a MacBook and I did not use head- or earphones, but the only thing I was able to notice is that the drumsticks used have a different pitch. Or are my ears so bad that the only thing I was able to notice is wrong?
Just me or is this toned down ?
Are all bearing edges the same ?
Mahogany is super obvious, different character
Birch
Maple for me is the best
It's a great video idea...however the video edits cut off the sustain! How the fundamental drops off is everything, now it's just a stick attack comparison throughout, same thing on the other videos posted like reso head comparisons. :(
Birch will always be my first choice.
Maple will always be my first choice
For some strange reason I want to hear what a drum set made from apple wood sounds like 😂 Currently, I’m using birch! I feel like it sustains a bit longer.
Apple Wood would sound SWEET. :) Jokes apart Cherry does sound amazing on drums.
❤birch❤
Maple definitely outshines the others then birch.
What is without HW? Hardware?
I could not hear a difference in any of the shells
Number three
Ok so I’m gonna make another comment here but I’m gonna point a few things out: first off, the first maple vs birch battle? I heard no difference at all. The second one? I actually did hear a difference! Quite a difference actually. But anyways… maybe one day if you have the time and the want to, maybe you could do this again but with a bottom mic as well as the top, and you could flip the polarity on the bottom mic. That way, we can capture the entire Tom sound and not just half of it.
But either way this is a great video and I still heard a bit of a difference between them.
Nah. Save double head and room ambient micing for studio maybe- although unusual. Sometimes you can double mic snare and BD. But usually not that big a difference. Plus-
I’ve NEVER seen any drummer running double mics on drums especially not Tom’s. But hey- if your ear hears something different & ya wanna do it?- then by all means DO IT. Enjoy and drum on. D😊
@@rtanidean4931 I heard from a local builder that the only difference is in the remo heads. Apparently they don’t make consistent heads. So, yes. I plan on doing that. 2 mics, different woods, evans or Aquarian heads, blind test and visual EQ test.
@@rtanidean4931 PS: Steve albini does. He’s not a drummer but he’s a fantastic audio engineer.
@@N617A I’m sure there’s the exception as I clearly typed, some may. A top level audiologist or engineer is generally much more keen and skilled than myself. I hit shit and make sounds. No big secret there, but many have let me know how good my drums record and sound live. I can assure everyone that knowing how to skillfully TUNE and instrument is the biggest factor in achieving a fundamentally acceptable sound for all. I applaud all who go to crazy lengths to get the best out of their instruments and interactions of it within composition.
Thx for point out. Drum on. D
@@N617A Do what you want, but I think you misinterpret what I meant by heads selections. Not really about manufacturers as much as type of heads integrated onto the drum.
For instance- an example:
If I seek a more open sound in general, I might choose a single ply clear perhaps coated for a bit warmer character.
If I seek a more articulate sound, I might choose a 2 ply head, maybe even hydraulic.
Whether you choose Remo, Evans, Aquarian or whoever isn’t that big a thing generally. I’ve literally played every manufacturers heads at some point along the way to my awareness, Along with the hundreds of options / models / plus and gadgets too.
Been playing and recording professionally for over 45 years.
First professional gig was at 15 years old - Jimmy McDaniels Band drummer at live venues and while doing a Saturday morning TV show in Indpls playing g drums.
I have been extremely grateful and one lucky lil drummer boy. 🤷♂️😁🎵