I do love how Neil Gaiman defends creators who have slightly similar ideas. He's so right that two authors could have a surface level similarity to their work, because it's what the storyteller does with the material that sets it apart.
That, and neither are exactly original work cottage farms. Things are tropey. Pretty much everything is similar, once you look at character and plot archetypes. But, ya know, guy's gotta get them clicks
I had so many ideas that later turned out that someone else have done it. So I won't try to say "they just copied it" like others do. It is very possible that two or more artist have the same ideas.
@@lunavioleta001 The Simson did it!!! LOL I remember that joke because it is true! No matter how "original" you think you are being someone somewhere has had similar thoughts even if you have never told anyone! I like looking at creativity this way because it takes away the worry of being "100% unique". As long as you are not copying something on purpose this shouldn't be an issue because in the grand scheme of things the stories we grew up on shaped our minds so it is only natural that those can become a "source" of our own stories.
I wonder how he feels about that now, with the advantage of hindsight? Not criticizing I'm sure there was no way he could've known how that all was gonna go down. I'm just wondering, if he had it to do over again......
Ya he sounds like the unsung hearo of comics. Because everyone's heard of Stan Lee but I didn't know who Neil gaiman was until one day I stumbled across a bunch of his comics (literally someone donated them to a thrift store) and was like holy crap Why is this guy not as famous.
Sort of a similar fate to Seig in Fate/Apocrypha. Except instead of dying, he flew off to "the reverse side of the world" (some sort of extradimensional space where there are no people) to protect humanity from a wish that requires humanity to exist, and while Jeanne D'Arc managed to eventually use the grail to reunite with him (as a Heroic Spirit, not a human mind), was otherwise never heard from again (FGO and Fate/Labyrinth don't count, those are operate continuities).
Honestly books of magic might be a intersting series to bring the magic into the dcu if Gunn is interested. Also probably would get backing since it’s a fresher face with less to barely any controversy
@@WardNightstone eh. I don’t see Neil Gaiman as guy who does things in spite he’s written trans characters before if anything he would just add a character because it fits the setting and mode more then just to flip the bird at JK. But yes that would be funny.
Honestly, I disagree. Whether we like to admit it or not, Harry Potter is still very popular (Hogwarts legacy sold much better than expected), and there is a good chance people would view it as a HP ripoff unfortunately. Honestly, I don’t think WB would want to take the risk.
@@phabiorules Yeah I know that had potter still sells and it will still keep selling. The issue though is that Harry Potter is going through similar stages as Star Wars where after ending on a really good set of films began to make mixed ones but great games. Then made more mixed films bad games and now a couple great shows and one to two good games. The point is, the book of magic would be able to fill the need that Harry Potter fans are wanting while also helping widen dcs content for their new future. But yeah they definitely would need to change up tim sadly, I think they would be fine if they just didn’t give him glasses but worst thing would be to just get a actor that looks nothing like Harry. Besides the dude doesn’t even go to a magical school
As you were explaining in the first half, I kept thinking ‘this sounds vaguely familiar, haven’t I read something like that in a Constantine book?’ Then you mentioned the New 52, and it all came together
Neil Gaiman himself said that HP wasn't the first wizard to go to school, or the first story about a boy wizard. When HP came out, I was unimpressed by the premise as it was basically already circulating. I didn't read much in the way of children's books, especially fantasy, but I do remember being surprised that people thought it was so awesome. In 1988, 2000AD published the Summer Magic series, about a boy who goes to live with his mysterious uncle and discovers that he's a wizzard (they use the term "sorcerer". Learns more magic from a homeless guy. It's a very DARK series, and Luke doesn't wear glasses. In fact, he looks more like Mob from Mob Psycho 100. In 1989, there was Kiki's Delivery Service. Standard issue broom, little witch protagonist. In 1986, Howl's Moving Castle was published (the Ghibli version omits the parallel Earth in it). Then there's the Chrestomanci books, which feature a modern-day Britain just with real magic, which is outlawed and policed by the Chrestomanci. Notably, the schools in it are very non-public school: no houses, class distinctions etc and is more of a prison, despite all the magic hijinks. In 1978, the Worst Witch series started. School for witches (only), and they all get black cats and brooms. Trio of friends. The author was inspired by her girls' school experiences and she and her friends being told off for being scruffy "you look like 3 witches". In 1968, A Wizard of Earthsea was written by Ursula K LeGuin, and features a teen wizard who goes to wizard school. Doesn't look like Harry Potter but is suggested to resemble a Native American, since his world is a fantasy one. He doesn't start with a scar but acquires one from a shadow creature. Has a pet cat-monkey-squirrel thing.
In 1865 Alice In Wonderland was released and in 1950 The Chronicles of Narnia. It's very likely that several of these stories would not even exist without Alice in Wonderland and/or The Chronicles of Narnia (Narnia probably wouldn't exist without Alice either for that matter). Also there's Wizard's Hall, The Secret of Platform Thirteen, The Dark Is Rising and The Legend of Rah and the Muggles (unsurprisingly the subject of a trademark lawsuit against Rowling), It is interesting though that Harry Potter, Narnia and Alice all come from The Isle of the Tories, with Narnia being as infamous for its Christian symbolism as Rowling is for being a transphobe.
@@mattwo7 what the hell does alice have to do with anything alice is nothing like Harry and she didn't even start the whole children go into a fantasy world thing there where stories like that way before alice like Jack in the bean stalk and those fantasy stories
And also... (text from wikipedia) "Groosham Grange is a 1988 fantasy novel by English author Anthony Horowitz and the first novel in the Groosham Grange series. It follows the adventures of twelve-year-old David Eliot, who gets sent to a mysterious school called Groosham Grange and where he eventually learns he is the seventh son of a seventh son. A lot of critics (and Horowitz himself) have since noted certain similarities between the Groosham Grange novel and the newer Harry Potter series written by J. K. Rowling. These similarities include having both central characters being mistreated by their parental figures who receive an unexpected letter from an isolated gothic boarding school which reveals itself as a school for wizards and witches; having a teacher who is a ghost and a werewolf character named after the French word for "wolf" (Lupin/Leloup); and passage to the school via railway train."
The idea that the villains are versions of your high school bullies from a future where you became wizard Hitler is actually fucking genius. Definitely gonna have to check that out.
You may be on to something...... Maybe there really was a young boy from England who was introduce to the world of Magic.... and a mix of events from "Harry Potter" and "The Book of Magic" took place....
Tim Hunter actually came back for a cameo appearance in last year's batman vs. robin in which he was brainwashed into fighting batman. In that appearance batman notes stuff about Tim (such as him becoming the most powerful wizard sometime in the future) in his internal monologue, meaning that Tim actually has some of his history as cannon in the current DC continuity.
He appeared in some early New 52 Justice League Dark comics as well. Where they tried to make the books of magic motherbox knock offs 😅. It was kinda dumb...
I think the characters of Tim and Harry are similar on paper, but completely different in practice, even physically. The similarities are that they're both white with short black hair, they both have glasses, and they both have an owl. Physical appearance wise, well, congrats, they both look exactly like my dad when he was a kid, as well as a lot of other people. Sure the owl is on the nose a bit, but at the same time, owls are often associated with magic and the occult. Additionally, the owls aren't even the same kind of owl with Hedwig being a snowy owl and Yo-Yo is a barn owl. Both Harry and Tim are designed to look like pretty average people, with Harry's scar being the only thing that really makes him stand out from a crowd. The only similarities the two have outside of their appearance is that they both study magic, but the how, why, and all the details-big and small-are vastly different.
Agreed. And even more so the world around them is vastly different. Tim's world has very few wizards that are even similar in the way they use magic. At least in the first comic. And then there is the scale. Tim's world has literal forces of nature, beings of such power that they rarely even use it to it's fullest, because it would be boring. Not to mention the Endless.
Fun fact, Harry Potter wasn't the first movie or story to have a protagonist named Harry Potter. That goes to a little known movie out dulled by its drastically worse sequel, Troll. That movie has a boy named Harry Potter Jr who goes on a dark horror/fantasy adventure in the apartment complex his family moved into, where a troll prince is turning all his new neighbors into various fairytale creatures in a grotesque fashion, while disguised as his little sister. Uses a lot of practical effects and puppetry similar to Jim Henson's work in Labyrinth. A weird mix of fairytale and horror while not exactly being Grimm.
I heard once from a creator at an instore that the “real” reason DC/WB didn’t sue is they saw popularity and they made a deal with Rowling for the film rights instead of legal action. I mean it sounds something a studio would do if had someone with sense at the helm at the time. I know I wasn’t the first person who noticed the similarities when Potter first started getting big stateside. My local store even put old copies of “The Books Of Magic” out with a sign that said something like “Ya like Harry Potter? We’ll come read this!” .
Imagine living in the alternative universe, where this unnamed movie came out before Harry Potter and was good, as good as HP series, and sparkled many childhoods throughout the world
What got me was how in the hell did no one accuses her of stealing from the other book series the worst witch,a non-magical girl gets sent off to a magic school, kindly headmistress who takes an interest in this lone pupil, snarky raven haired teacher who hates the pupil and is hiding something. Bullies who come from a rich background and hate the main character's family, two best mates between this, the books of magic and the first troll film, you'd love to see her research notes
@@OdaKa They did, but the Worst Witch and Harry Potter share a lot more similarities than the Books of Magic do. Harry and Timothy look similar, can do magic and both have an owl, thats about it. The Worst Witch however shares so much more. For example, Ms Hardbroom also is the potions teacher.
The vertigo series unwritten the books of magic was a harry potter like series where the character Timothy Hunter was based off the writer's son Tom Taylor. The writer who totally isn't a stand in for Niel Gaimen never married or had a son, and Timmothy was spawned into reality through the power of imagination. If you like trans dimensional fuckery, that books a hell of a ride.
I'll surely start reading this comic book. I already knew about the fact that some people called it an Harry Potter of comics for the similarities with the main characters but with the difference that the book of magic came before the Harry Potter books. Well i love Neil Gaiman and his comic books (and also his books like American Gods and Good Omens) so i will probably love this comic book too.
Bespectacled, not bespeckled. He wears glasses, but his degree of spottiness is unexplored. Sorry, couldn't resist. ETA: regarding that last thing - nice.
I hope they will make books of magic a series like The Sandman Series. I think it has lots of potential to explore the world of magic in the DC Universe.
I was all in on that original Gaiman run when it came out, but I dropped out of comics completely during that first series. I wondered how that turned out. Thanks for the update.
How did I have NO IDEA about this guy? Seriously- I’ve been into comics for YEARS and never came across one thing about him 😂 Thanks, Drake…IF that’s your real, REAL name… ~_~
DC suing Wizarding World from WB's perspective would be like if you tried to take your left hand.. and punch your right hand. Not really a super helpful thing to do.
Fun fact about the Peter Gross run that was skipped over is that for several issues (spanning a Vertigo winter special) there's an arc in which Tim disguises themself as a girl, going by the name Mary and living as such for months. It's a really good run and also ironic that a character often compared to the most famous cultural export of British transphobes only requires a few seconds of extra thought to be read as somewhat trans and/or nonbinary
I think WB was right in this case since the Books of Magic is sooo tied to DC's magic side that it would need a lot of changes to make it appealing to the general auidence. Like if you start out with just showing this kid, we have to explain who all these characters that appear to help or harm him is. And some are hard to explain like Dr. Fate, you need to explain the lords of chaos and order, Deadman and such like that. Harry Potter is a much more straightforward adaption.
Technically the world building would have already been laid out because it’s all just Vertigo stuff. That said it also means it’s really complicated at the end of the day
After watching this video makes me want to read these comics. Also can you make more videos about lesser known comic characters. Thanks Comic Drake and can’t wait for your next video.
I'm disappointed that you didn't go more into "Books of Magick: Life During War Time." By Sy Spencer. That was a solid read and one of my favorite Tim Hunter Stories.
If Warner Bros wanted to make another attempt at a superhero film universe, they could have made the books of magic as the first film, introduce a bunch of supernatural heroes, and make it just fantasy superheroes and characters in a setting that would be reasonably explained in a fun way in the first film! Risky, sure, but would certainly be different than Marvel!
Have you heard of Tommy Taylor from The Unwritten? He is another Potter-based comic book character that explores the world of literature. The entire story is by the same team, so a lot more consistent as a result
I was trying figure out why all this sounded familiar, then I remembered another Vertigo title called unwritten. The premise was that books of magic was a popular kid's series that really leaned into the Harry Potter similarities, written by a fictional author that was totally not a stand in for Gaiman, and the mc was his kid the series was based off of, and had grown up unable to escape the series shadow. Throughout the course of the series, he learns that his father didn't conceive him in the normal way but spawned him into existence through the power of imagination. The world from Books of magic, and indeed all works of fiction and imagination exist on some parallel plane of existence, and him being dropped into the real world caused a bunch of trans dimensional fuckery as well as causing things in his own story world to go badly, so he's got to team up with discount Hermoine and fix things.
Really minor side note because I'm sure you already knew it, but Tim met Merlin in the original Books of Magic. It was a good scene as Tim comments "I can be like Merlin" and the Phantom Stranger says something like "You can if you want" as from his logic, Merlin was nothing special.
That intro reminds me of Kiss' album Music from "The Elder". It's a theme album about an order that introduces him to a new world, and he has to defeat the dark one. He even has a lightning symbol on his head (mentioned in the song "I").
Look at the Frank Miller Ronin series, it’s basically Samurai Jack, until it isn’t. I remember reading it when I was a kid and when I reached the twist, actively wishing they’d kept to the original story, so I wasn’t particularly bothered with any similarities between the cartoon the original comic.
Harry Potter DID exist before JK ever thought of a story. In the movie "Troll" (1986) the main character is a boy named Harry Potter Jr. He is a powerful Wizard who doesn't know he is....
I was listening to this passively at work and I misheard Drake say "Gay men don't actually exist" when saying Gaiman. Had to rewind to confirm I had heard incorrectly lol
Glad to see someone remembers Tim Hunter and talks about him, in my opinion he's a character with a lot of potential, both in and out of universe, and should not be resigned to the mists of oblivion. Honestly, I would be thrilled to see a crossover meeting between Tim and Harry, maybe Death Battle will make an episode about it, there should be enough material.
Wow. Reiber does not come off well in this. So basically Tim Hunter was given to a writer who, by his own admission, does not like or care about Tim Hunter.
The JLD clips reminded me of Black Orchid and those unanswered questions with her. At some point, consider a video summing up unanswered questions of the New 52, like the Seed Planet, or Pandora's deal.
I have a paperback novel of the Books of Magic bought at a library sale way before Harry Potter I've shown it to people and they couldn't believe the cover art with the owl on it.
This isn't quite comic books, but let me mention Ursula K. Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea for doing the "boy goes to magic school" story first by three decades!
So I had a weird introduction to this there was a novel adaptation of the book series and that is how I was introduced to this and because of that I had no idea Tim was connected to DC comics in anyway. Loved them as a kid
There is a movie from the 1980s in which predates the comic you are referencing. The movie is called troll, which has an evil wizard who was imprisioned and that a normal boy is thrust into magical world to protect the normal and magical world. His name is harry potter,jr. His mentor is also taken out by the evil wizard.
That’s funny I just received the 4 issue series yesterday probably right as you released this. If anyone was interested Neil’s work American Gods is also a graphic novel now.
I was like no she didn’t rip it off it’s just similar then I saw the deathly hallows symbol and ya she ripped off the books of magic big time that’s too much of a coincidence to actually be one
I'm halfway through this video & havent heard Diana Wynne Jones' name yet. How do you cover Neil Gaiman saying JKR didn't rip him off without the part where he says Diana Wynne Jones is the author he thinks really could've won a lawsuit against JKR if she'd decided to pursue it 🤷🏻♂️🧐🤷🏻♂️
Great video. I never knew this and I'm glad you pointed it out. I think Rowling definitely got some ideas from "The Books of Magic". The fact that she began writting the first Harry Potter book in 1990 (the same year that "The Books of Magic" were released), the owl "Yo-yo" as Tim Hunter's companion and also he's wearing glasses and is a 12 year old British kid are obvious give aways (and she didn't even change his hair color, lol). It's a literal rip-off. Tim Hunter vs Harry Potter would be epic though, lol. 😁
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Yes.
Can bro make an eating Swamp Thing video for 420?
So DC stole 2000ad’s Luke Kerby then.
made a Yu-Gi-Oh reference means do we get one video down the line
I do love how Neil Gaiman defends creators who have slightly similar ideas. He's so right that two authors could have a surface level similarity to their work, because it's what the storyteller does with the material that sets it apart.
I call it convergent thought
It’s not how many times it’s done it’s how you make it stand out
That, and neither are exactly original work cottage farms. Things are tropey. Pretty much everything is similar, once you look at character and plot archetypes. But, ya know, guy's gotta get them clicks
I had so many ideas that later turned out that someone else have done it. So I won't try to say "they just copied it" like others do. It is very possible that two or more artist have the same ideas.
@@lunavioleta001 The Simson did it!!! LOL I remember that joke because it is true! No matter how "original" you think you are being someone somewhere has had similar thoughts even if you have never told anyone! I like looking at creativity this way because it takes away the worry of being "100% unique". As long as you are not copying something on purpose this shouldn't be an issue because in the grand scheme of things the stories we grew up on shaped our minds so it is only natural that those can become a "source" of our own stories.
I wonder how he feels about that now, with the advantage of hindsight? Not criticizing I'm sure there was no way he could've known how that all was gonna go down. I'm just wondering, if he had it to do over again......
As soon as you said “written by Neal Gaiman” I was hooked
Same
Neil is just crazy dude
Same 😂
Great series
Ya he sounds like the unsung hearo of comics. Because everyone's heard of Stan Lee but I didn't know who Neil gaiman was until one day I stumbled across a bunch of his comics (literally someone donated them to a thrift store) and was like holy crap Why is this guy not as famous.
"He turned into a fucking dragon then dies" might be the best character summary of someone I have heard
Maleficent lol
Sort of a similar fate to Seig in Fate/Apocrypha. Except instead of dying, he flew off to "the reverse side of the world" (some sort of extradimensional space where there are no people) to protect humanity from a wish that requires humanity to exist, and while Jeanne D'Arc managed to eventually use the grail to reunite with him (as a Heroic Spirit, not a human mind), was otherwise never heard from again (FGO and Fate/Labyrinth don't count, those are operate continuities).
I dream of being that awesome.
Awesome! 😂
That's like so many Fire Emblem characters...
Honestly books of magic might be a intersting series to bring the magic into the dcu if Gunn is interested. Also probably would get backing since it’s a fresher face with less to barely any controversy
Hell Neil would create a trans charicter to add to the charicters of BoM just to spite her
@@WardNightstone eh. I don’t see Neil Gaiman as guy who does things in spite he’s written trans characters before if anything he would just add a character because it fits the setting and mode more then just to flip the bird at JK. But yes that would be funny.
@@michaelsledge7980 i would laugh my ass off aswell
Honestly, I disagree.
Whether we like to admit it or not, Harry Potter is still very popular (Hogwarts legacy sold much better than expected), and there is a good chance people would view it as a HP ripoff unfortunately.
Honestly, I don’t think WB would want to take the risk.
@@phabiorules Yeah I know that had potter still sells and it will still keep selling. The issue though is that Harry Potter is going through similar stages as Star Wars where after ending on a really good set of films began to make mixed ones but great games. Then made more mixed films bad games and now a couple great shows and one to two good games. The point is, the book of magic would be able to fill the need that Harry Potter fans are wanting while also helping widen dcs content for their new future. But yeah they definitely would need to change up tim sadly, I think they would be fine if they just didn’t give him glasses but worst thing would be to just get a actor that looks nothing like Harry. Besides the dude doesn’t even go to a magical school
The title "Books of Magic" refers to the comics you're holding in your hand. Not something in the story. You, Drake, are reading the Books of Magic.
@Will N it indicates that something magical is happening in this book.
depends on which ongoing series you read the last one Timothy actually looked for real magic books.
Harry Potter was always garbage
As you were explaining in the first half, I kept thinking ‘this sounds vaguely familiar, haven’t I read something like that in a Constantine book?’ Then you mentioned the New 52, and it all came together
Neil Gaiman himself said that HP wasn't the first wizard to go to school, or the first story about a boy wizard. When HP came out, I was unimpressed by the premise as it was basically already circulating. I didn't read much in the way of children's books, especially fantasy, but I do remember being surprised that people thought it was so awesome.
In 1988, 2000AD published the Summer Magic series, about a boy who goes to live with his mysterious uncle and discovers that he's a wizzard (they use the term "sorcerer". Learns more magic from a homeless guy. It's a very DARK series, and Luke doesn't wear glasses. In fact, he looks more like Mob from Mob Psycho 100.
In 1989, there was Kiki's Delivery Service. Standard issue broom, little witch protagonist.
In 1986, Howl's Moving Castle was published (the Ghibli version omits the parallel Earth in it). Then there's the Chrestomanci books, which feature a modern-day Britain just with real magic, which is outlawed and policed by the Chrestomanci. Notably, the schools in it are very non-public school: no houses, class distinctions etc and is more of a prison, despite all the magic hijinks.
In 1978, the Worst Witch series started. School for witches (only), and they all get black cats and brooms. Trio of friends. The author was inspired by her girls' school experiences and she and her friends being told off for being scruffy "you look like 3 witches".
In 1968, A Wizard of Earthsea was written by Ursula K LeGuin, and features a teen wizard who goes to wizard school. Doesn't look like Harry Potter but is suggested to resemble a Native American, since his world is a fantasy one. He doesn't start with a scar but acquires one from a shadow creature. Has a pet cat-monkey-squirrel thing.
These sound awesome!
In 1865 Alice In Wonderland was released and in 1950 The Chronicles of Narnia. It's very likely that several of these stories would not even exist without Alice in Wonderland and/or The Chronicles of Narnia (Narnia probably wouldn't exist without Alice either for that matter). Also there's Wizard's Hall, The Secret of Platform Thirteen, The Dark Is Rising and The Legend of Rah and the Muggles (unsurprisingly the subject of a trademark lawsuit against Rowling),
It is interesting though that Harry Potter, Narnia and Alice all come from The Isle of the Tories, with Narnia being as infamous for its Christian symbolism as Rowling is for being a transphobe.
@@mattwo7 what the hell does alice have to do with anything alice is nothing like Harry and she didn't even start the whole children go into a fantasy world thing there where stories like that way before alice like Jack in the bean stalk and those fantasy stories
in 1990 there was spellingcasting 101
And also... (text from wikipedia)
"Groosham Grange is a 1988 fantasy novel by English author Anthony Horowitz and the first novel in the Groosham Grange series. It follows the adventures of twelve-year-old David Eliot, who gets sent to a mysterious school called Groosham Grange and where he eventually learns he is the seventh son of a seventh son.
A lot of critics (and Horowitz himself) have since noted certain similarities between the Groosham Grange novel and the newer Harry Potter series written by J. K. Rowling. These similarities include having both central characters being mistreated by their parental figures who receive an unexpected letter from an isolated gothic boarding school which reveals itself as a school for wizards and witches; having a teacher who is a ghost and a werewolf character named after the French word for "wolf" (Lupin/Leloup); and passage to the school via railway train."
15:36 Merlin really said "You gotta get on that sigma grindset, Tim!"
I wish I came up with this joke. 🤣
The idea that the villains are versions of your high school bullies from a future where you became wizard Hitler is actually fucking genius. Definitely gonna have to check that out.
"The ultimate wizard in terms of atack and defense" Thats... thats a Dark Magician Reference????
He's talked about Yugioh before and has the Millennium Puzzle in his backdrop of comics symbology. Not that weird.
I feel like this is something that came from another universe that somehow crossed over to ours
That's a weird variation of the Mandela Effect
You may be on to something...... Maybe there really was a young boy from England who was introduce to the world of Magic.... and a mix of events from "Harry Potter" and "The Book of Magic" took place....
Read The Sandman by Neil Gaiman. It is also similar
If stories about seeing Constantine are anything to go by maybe it’s true
@@mayankbisht7691 how so? I cant see the similarities...
Tim Hunter actually came back for a cameo appearance in last year's batman vs. robin in which he was brainwashed into fighting batman. In that appearance batman notes stuff about Tim (such as him becoming the most powerful wizard sometime in the future) in his internal monologue, meaning that Tim actually has some of his history as cannon in the current DC continuity.
He appeared in some early New 52 Justice League Dark comics as well. Where they tried to make the books of magic motherbox knock offs 😅. It was kinda dumb...
I think the characters of Tim and Harry are similar on paper, but completely different in practice, even physically. The similarities are that they're both white with short black hair, they both have glasses, and they both have an owl. Physical appearance wise, well, congrats, they both look exactly like my dad when he was a kid, as well as a lot of other people. Sure the owl is on the nose a bit, but at the same time, owls are often associated with magic and the occult. Additionally, the owls aren't even the same kind of owl with Hedwig being a snowy owl and Yo-Yo is a barn owl.
Both Harry and Tim are designed to look like pretty average people, with Harry's scar being the only thing that really makes him stand out from a crowd.
The only similarities the two have outside of their appearance is that they both study magic, but the how, why, and all the details-big and small-are vastly different.
Agreed. And even more so the world around them is vastly different. Tim's world has very few wizards that are even similar in the way they use magic. At least in the first comic. And then there is the scale. Tim's world has literal forces of nature, beings of such power that they rarely even use it to it's fullest, because it would be boring. Not to mention the Endless.
Tims Owl is a familiar rather than a messenger and only appears in the first tree issues and the latest ongoing.
2:37 I looked Tim up and discovered these four were unofficially and jokingly called the "Trenchcoat Brigade" by Constantine lol
Fun fact, Harry Potter wasn't the first movie or story to have a protagonist named Harry Potter. That goes to a little known movie out dulled by its drastically worse sequel, Troll.
That movie has a boy named Harry Potter Jr who goes on a dark horror/fantasy adventure in the apartment complex his family moved into, where a troll prince is turning all his new neighbors into various fairytale creatures in a grotesque fashion, while disguised as his little sister. Uses a lot of practical effects and puppetry similar to Jim Henson's work in Labyrinth. A weird mix of fairytale and horror while not exactly being Grimm.
If only it wasn't so drowned out by the infamy of its not-sequel.
I liked the gate, this film sounds Canadian too. Is it?
@@banquetoftheleviathan1404could be! If you want to look it up, it is the 1986 movie.
I dug how Spurrier used the evil future Tim in his Hellblazer series. Man, those Sandman Universe books really did some good stuff.
Finally, I loooove this series 😂 God I hope Hunter returns, he could be like Jon & Damian's Constantine!
Super Sons and Tim Hunter would be a cool team up. Real Marauders energy lmao. Who would be the fourth?
@@bbrbbr-on2gd I would definitely pick Bolt (White Adam) or Static.
Magic Electricity or Magnetic Electricity it matters not to me
I heard once from a creator at an instore that the “real” reason DC/WB didn’t sue is they saw popularity and they made a deal with Rowling for the film rights instead of legal action. I mean it sounds something a studio would do if had someone with sense at the helm at the time. I know I wasn’t the first person who noticed the similarities when Potter first started getting big stateside. My local store even put old copies of “The Books Of Magic” out with a sign that said something like “Ya like Harry Potter? We’ll come read this!” .
That "even if there's a 1% chance..." reference was amazing.
I understand that reference!
Imagine living in the alternative universe, where this unnamed movie came out before Harry Potter and was good, as good as HP series, and sparkled many childhoods throughout the world
What got me was how in the hell did no one accuses her of stealing from the other book series the worst witch,a non-magical girl gets sent off to a magic school, kindly headmistress who takes an interest in this lone pupil, snarky raven haired teacher who hates the pupil and is hiding something. Bullies who come from a rich background and hate the main character's family, two best mates
between this, the books of magic and the first troll film, you'd love to see her research notes
Ur actually right u know. Worst Witch is really similar but I do think HP became different
Mother's Basement once made the comparison that the plot of Harry Potter is exactly the same as *fricken Naruto,* and the ninja story came first
I mean you basically just outlined every preteen early teens story outline
@@OdaKa They did, but the Worst Witch and Harry Potter share a lot more similarities than the Books of Magic do. Harry and Timothy look similar, can do magic and both have an owl, thats about it. The Worst Witch however shares so much more. For example, Ms Hardbroom also is the potions teacher.
And Earthsea did a lot of stuff that HP did waaaaay earlier
I think if they adapted this into a TV series it could still worked with a style like the SYFY channel show The MAGICIANS. I can totally see it.
Ah Yes! I remember Timothy Hunter. It would be awesome if DC could revive his series.
They did revive his character and the series Books of magic in 2019, the rise of Tim Hunter. He was also in the justice league dark series.
The vertigo series unwritten the books of magic was a harry potter like series where the character Timothy Hunter was based off the writer's son Tom Taylor. The writer who totally isn't a stand in for Niel Gaimen never married or had a son, and Timmothy was spawned into reality through the power of imagination.
If you like trans dimensional fuckery, that books a hell of a ride.
I'll surely start reading this comic book.
I already knew about the fact that some people called it an Harry Potter of comics for the similarities with the main characters but with the difference that the book of magic came before the Harry Potter books.
Well i love Neil Gaiman and his comic books (and also his books like American Gods and Good Omens) so i will probably love this comic book too.
And I believe Gaiman acknowledges being inspired by Ursula K. LeGuin's 'A Wizard of Earthsea' series of novels.
The first wizarding school, so the true inspiration.
Funny how we're talking about Neil Gaiman here after I received word of his new MiracleMan stuff getting a collection this year.
Hunter is a dope character. I've only read the initial mini series by Gaiman and LOVED it. I may grab those Books of Magic omnibus one day.
Bespectacled, not bespeckled. He wears glasses, but his degree of spottiness is unexplored.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
ETA: regarding that last thing - nice.
Tim Hunter deserves his Live-Action or Animated Feature Film Adaptation.
I hope they will make books of magic a series like The Sandman Series. I think it has lots of potential to explore the world of magic in the DC Universe.
I was all in on that original Gaiman run when it came out, but I dropped out of comics completely during that first series. I wondered how that turned out. Thanks for the update.
3:20 you cannot convince me that JK didn't take that design and just use it for Dobby
Actually, Harry Potter was first shown off in a movie called "Troll" :)
I want to get my hands on these as soon as possible, because they sound absolutely INSANE.
How did I have NO IDEA about this guy?
Seriously- I’ve been into comics for YEARS and never came across one thing about him 😂
Thanks, Drake…IF that’s your real, REAL name…
~_~
DC suing Wizarding World from WB's perspective would be like if you tried to take your left hand.. and punch your right hand. Not really a super helpful thing to do.
Fun fact about the Peter Gross run that was skipped over is that for several issues (spanning a Vertigo winter special) there's an arc in which Tim disguises themself as a girl, going by the name Mary and living as such for months. It's a really good run and also ironic that a character often compared to the most famous cultural export of British transphobes only requires a few seconds of extra thought to be read as somewhat trans and/or nonbinary
I can definitely see him in the netflix sandman universe. He'll fit right in.
"a fate worse than death or being tortured" that's what I would do to shyness if being shy was a person.
So glad for this video. Kat Howard is one of my all time favorite authors so I'm glad to know I can start with her books.
I think WB was right in this case since the Books of Magic is sooo tied to DC's magic side that it would need a lot of changes to make it appealing to the general auidence. Like if you start out with just showing this kid, we have to explain who all these characters that appear to help or harm him is. And some are hard to explain like Dr. Fate, you need to explain the lords of chaos and order, Deadman and such like that. Harry Potter is a much more straightforward adaption.
You'd think there's more money in "Harry potter without the hate, and with better worldbuilding."
Technically the world building would have already been laid out because it’s all just Vertigo stuff.
That said it also means it’s really complicated at the end of the day
9:41 There's a mood. Doesn't help that I built my online persona on a character I convinced when I was 18 and is long overdue for a reboot.
I laughed so hard at the ultimate wizard in terms of attack and defense line
Was that a reference?
@@2-bit567Yu-Gi-Oh's Dark Magician card flavor text.
@@2-bit567 yugioh dark magician text
After watching this video makes me want to read these comics. Also can you make more videos about lesser known comic characters. Thanks Comic Drake and can’t wait for your next video.
Personally I think it's the better of the two series. I love Neil Gaiman and the Trenchcoat Brigade is awesome.
Books of Magic is always my go to Magic comic book for DC. Nothing else rivaled it.
Don’t forget the first wizard to ever exist our fellow Druid merlin himself
Books of Magic is genuinely my favorite DC series. So well written
2:21 that's something id expect Grant Morrison to write.
I'm disappointed that you didn't go more into "Books of Magick: Life During War Time." By Sy Spencer. That was a solid read and one of my favorite Tim Hunter Stories.
It’s about time someone made a video about that. I’ve been saying that for years and people just look at me like “Huh?”
omg, the later tim hunter arcs are just like the dark op harry fanfics, I'm crying, they really are the same
Next: Harry Dresden
I hope that after Neilgaimen does the DC Netflix Sandman show he can perhaps convince them to make this a live action movie/show aswell
Harry Potter exists in marvel's 616 universe, him Ron and Hermione almost got trampled by Juggernaut while coming out of Diagon Alley.
If Warner Bros wanted to make another attempt at a superhero film universe, they could have made the books of magic as the first film, introduce a bunch of supernatural heroes, and make it just fantasy superheroes and characters in a setting that would be reasonably explained in a fun way in the first film! Risky, sure, but would certainly be different than Marvel!
The Yugioh reference didnt go unnoticed. Some good content right here
About Time someone pointed this out!
I actually collected these back when they came out! I actually really loved this series.
Have you heard of Tommy Taylor from The Unwritten? He is another Potter-based comic book character that explores the world of literature. The entire story is by the same team, so a lot more consistent as a result
I was trying figure out why all this sounded familiar, then I remembered another Vertigo title called unwritten.
The premise was that books of magic was a popular kid's series that really leaned into the Harry Potter similarities, written by a fictional author that was totally not a stand in for Gaiman, and the mc was his kid the series was based off of, and had grown up unable to escape the series shadow.
Throughout the course of the series, he learns that his father didn't conceive him in the normal way but spawned him into existence through the power of imagination. The world from Books of magic, and indeed all works of fiction and imagination exist on some parallel plane of existence, and him being dropped into the real world caused a bunch of trans dimensional fuckery as well as causing things in his own story world to go badly, so he's got to team up with discount Hermoine and fix things.
Death is one of my favorite characters in all of DC (along with Raven and Jinx)
I was thinking for years that Books of Magic were pretty much Harry Potter before Harry Potter was written.
This video was awesome on so many levels, thanks Drake.
Really minor side note because I'm sure you already knew it, but Tim met Merlin in the original Books of Magic. It was a good scene as Tim comments "I can be like Merlin" and the Phantom Stranger says something like "You can if you want" as from his logic, Merlin was nothing special.
That intro reminds me of Kiss' album Music from "The Elder". It's a theme album about an order that introduces him to a new world, and he has to defeat the dark one. He even has a lightning symbol on his head (mentioned in the song "I").
Look at the Frank Miller Ronin series, it’s basically Samurai Jack, until it isn’t. I remember reading it when I was a kid and when I reached the twist, actively wishing they’d kept to the original story, so I wasn’t particularly bothered with any similarities between the cartoon the original comic.
Harry Potter DID exist before JK ever thought of a story. In the movie "Troll" (1986) the main character is a boy named Harry Potter Jr. He is a powerful Wizard who doesn't know he is....
Tim looks like a mix of Terry McGinnis and Dib membrain
I was listening to this passively at work and I misheard Drake say "Gay men don't actually exist" when saying Gaiman. Had to rewind to confirm I had heard incorrectly lol
At least he didn't confuse them with bats.
love the videos and especially that lil call out at the end
Glad to see someone remembers Tim Hunter and talks about him, in my opinion he's a character with a lot of potential, both in and out of universe, and should not be resigned to the mists of oblivion.
Honestly, I would be thrilled to see a crossover meeting between Tim and Harry, maybe Death Battle will make an episode about it, there should be enough material.
Wow. Reiber does not come off well in this. So basically Tim Hunter was given to a writer who, by his own admission, does not like or care about Tim Hunter.
The JLD clips reminded me of Black Orchid and those unanswered questions with her. At some point, consider a video summing up unanswered questions of the New 52, like the Seed Planet, or Pandora's deal.
I have a paperback novel of the Books of Magic bought at a library sale way before Harry Potter I've shown it to people and they couldn't believe the cover art with the owl on it.
This isn't quite comic books, but let me mention Ursula K. Le Guin's A Wizard of Earthsea for doing the "boy goes to magic school" story first by three decades!
3:36 A bar? This was Constantine's turn wasn't it :P
Happy to see Timothy getting some love
I always love the guest voices, nice hearing Nikhil!
At least DC could use this series to compete against Dr Strange
Strange Academy, if nothing else.
You are forgetting petter gross’s run on books of magic. It was a good read, I enjoyed it, it follows Tim exploring the realms.
So I had a weird introduction to this there was a novel adaptation of the book series and that is how I was introduced to this and because of that I had no idea Tim was connected to DC comics in anyway. Loved them as a kid
The intro reminded me of the movie, "Pagemaster."
Was waiting for the context of the comparison till the end and oh was it great to hear, nice to see you're a solid dude as always Drake.
There is a movie from the 1980s in which predates the comic you are referencing. The movie is called troll, which has an evil wizard who was imprisioned and that a normal boy is thrust into magical world to protect the normal and magical world. His name is harry potter,jr. His mentor is also taken out by the evil wizard.
This channel needs to be more popular so that someone can do fan art of Comic Drake as a dragon with a comicbook hoard.
Reminds me of how there will never be a remake of battle royale due to the simple fact people will see it as a "rip off" of hunger games
“I’d Have Two Nickels which isn’t a lot but weird that it happened twice”
At the end of the series, Tim’s cousin actually steals Tim’s Hogwarts Letter and goes with a charm that makes him look like Tim.
I only saw covers of this back then, but when Harry Potter became a thing, I remembered the DC character.
Another story of WB doing what it does "best": killing dreams.
Actually. She stole Harry Potter from DC Comics Books of Magic #1 and the 1986 movie 'Troll'
I read a non comic book version of that and think I still have it somewhere.
That’s funny I just received the 4 issue series yesterday probably right as you released this. If anyone was interested Neil’s work American Gods is also a graphic novel now.
I was like no she didn’t rip it off it’s just similar then I saw the deathly hallows symbol and ya she ripped off the books of magic big time that’s too much of a coincidence to actually be one
I'm halfway through this video & havent heard Diana Wynne Jones' name yet. How do you cover Neil Gaiman saying JKR didn't rip him off without the part where he says Diana Wynne Jones is the author he thinks really could've won a lawsuit against JKR if she'd decided to pursue it 🤷🏻♂️🧐🤷🏻♂️
comic drake lore, not the dark 4channer past 💀
Great video. I never knew this and I'm glad you pointed it out. I think Rowling definitely got some ideas from "The Books of Magic". The fact that she began writting the first Harry Potter book in 1990 (the same year that "The Books of Magic" were released), the owl "Yo-yo" as Tim Hunter's companion and also he's wearing glasses and is a 12 year old British kid are obvious give aways (and she didn't even change his hair color, lol). It's a literal rip-off. Tim Hunter vs Harry Potter would be epic though, lol. 😁