I volunteer at a range for the national forest , cleaning the trash and picking brass on the ground and lead out of the berm , and this is true and documented , that's why people call it "glocked brass" but anytime you mention it or show the brass to a Glock owner , placing the still hot brass in their hand they always say it's bad ammo.
Unsupported is arbitrary at best. A factory ramp barrel of the same gun and caliber can be called fully supported. Take 3 different manufactures of the fully supported ramped barrels and they all vary. There is no specific standard measurement of what is fully supported besides the eye.
YES... I recently saw a video here about Glock barrels. They are intentionally made "loose". AND have a partly unsupported chamber. If one wants to reload the 40 in a Glock, it's best to spend the $ for an aftermarket barrel.
Indeed, Lester - and the 40 cal was the caliber with the most Kabooms. And spikey powders like TiteGroup were problematic if loaded on the hot side. The aftermarket barrels provided much needed confidence. As with most manufacturers, Glock factory barrels were intended to shoot factory jacketed ammo only, but because of the unsupported case heads, it was much more of a safety issue with Glock. Based on my own observations, the current Glock iterations have better chamber and case head support. Changes were made without fanfare as otherwise, how could Glock Perfection be justified. Best to ya, FC
@@FortuneCookie45LC I also consider UNIVERSAL to be a "spikey powder". High energy, but it ramps up quickly. This is especially true when used in cases where case volume is limited, like 380 acp ect. How say you...?
For someone like me who is just now getting into reloading( All work no play, until today), Thank you! You go into the right amount of depth to cover the subject without trailing into oblivion. Thank you for allowing us to harness your learning curve.
Have questions about reloading? I have been doing it since early 1993. Mostly handgun. But there are a few pet rifle cartridges that I have. I have done some experiments with CAST LEAD loads in some of those rifle cases. Some calibers of rifle are more practical for cast lead than others. This would appear to be a good channel to ask questions about reloading here.
@@lestergillis8171 I have been playing with 30-30 and 223 I found that a really hard 55 gn out of a lee rf224 mold with 22 gn"s of cfe .223 shoots dead on to m193`s at a col of 2.080, projectile unsized if not checked is the key to accuracy with that load. it still has enough velocity to set off a binary so its cooking. 30-30 I under load mostly to save the ridiculously expensive brass. also learned the annealing process for that reason. mil brass you just swage and trim and throw when the neck is done. with prices of bang pill falling( maybe, one of the strange government organizations just made a huge purchase through Winchester not federal kind of spooky) the prices of primers will fall too or simply be back instock other than GB or other highway robbery sites.
@@johnoakley5544 Strange that you mention all this... In some of my old cast bullet manuals, there is mention of some kind of cast bullet RIFLE SHOOTERS "club". Within a few paragraphs the book explained that between quenching and alloys, some of these shooters were able to fire 223s at near factory jacketed velocities. I have two AR-15s but both are in 7.62×39. I have no particular desire to run cast lead through a DGI rifle. One of my 30-30s is a different story as velocities there are not as high to begin with.
@@lestergillis8171 I just wanted to see if I could prove the theory with the .223. The 30-30 is just hard to find and expensive if you do. I under load 2-4 grains from min depending on powder. starline and norma are out of stock on brass.
I saw a guy with a ruger Blackhawk in .357 magnum. What he did wrong was use a double charge of Bullseye. It cracked the revolver cylinder and that was it. Sent it to Ruger and they fitted a new cylinder for 35.oo. Why am I telling this, its because some guns like the Blackhawk are so strong they don't just disintegrate like Rossi's and Some Taurus revolvers can. If using a powder like bullseye, WEIGH EACH CHARGE TO DARN SURE YOU ARENT SCREWING UP. I USE TRAILBOSS BECAUSE IT IS BILKIER AND HARDER TO SCREW UP. Be safe and sorry for the caps lock on.
An alternative, is to modify your reloading technique so that you charge a case and seat a bullet immediately so that you don't have to worry about double charging.
I have two Glock Gen4s in .40 S&W. Neither factory barrel has a hint of this issue. I've fired lots of factory and reloaded rounds, some of them rather hot, without a single Glock smile. As for a taper crimp being necessary to avoid bullets getting pushed into the case upon chambering, that's not the taper crimp's purpose. Too much taper crimp can easily cause rounds to chamber too deeply because that case mouth is what sets the headspace. Neck tension holds the bullet in its proper position, not taper crimp.
357 Sig is actually not a necked down 40 case. It is a shortened 10mm case that is actually longer than the 40 case. If you try necking down the 40 to 357 Sig it will be too short and not hold the bullet.
When I started to reload my ammunition I read up on how and what to do. I purchased a Dillon progressive loader for the easy change out between calibers. What I found in Dillons literature, Hornady’s literature, and two other books on reloading all said the same thing. Always check your cases if you purchased or collect range brass for the square firing pin marks on the primers. If you find that throw them away due to them being Glock fired rounds never reload this brass!!! I always throw them away and never use them and this is why I will never own a Glock.
Got to admit. I've been reloading and firing Glock fired brass and also any type of fired brass that I find since about the year 2000 or so. I don't remember exactly. One thing I've always done is inspect range finds. After cleaning the brass. I started this practice of reloading and firing glock fired brass before all this info about the Glock smile(bulge) was made public info. One thing I always have done and still do is throw away all the cases that have the Glock bulge. Or any brass that looks like it's contained extream pressures. It always seemed to me that those cases were fired under excessive pressures. Never had any issues with reloads. Thanks be to God Almighty. Another clue is cases that have lengthened (grown) excessively. You'll find these with your case trimmer. I throw these in the trash barrel also. But I don't recommend loading 40 brass if you are a novice reloader without experience in loading short semiauto rounds.
So should we anneal the entire case if it was shot out of an unsupported chamber? If picking up range brass should we play it safe assume that the brass was shot out of stock Glock?
I bought an alpha wolf barrel for my G22. I shoot my reloads in the aftermarket barrel (great for cheap cast loads), and carry with the factory barrel with factory ammo. I did this because of your videos about the problems with Glocks, epsecially with the .40 S&W (and because of Lyman's warning in my 50th edition reloading manual)... Thanks! This is why I like my Springfield XD in .40 a tad more. Supported chamber, standard rifling and a less expensive gun than Glock to begin with. No aftermarket parts needed to reload and shoot whatever I want.
KG - You are on much more secure ground with your Glock setup. That’s been the problem with Glocks. They are fantastic guns for shooting factory ammo as they were intended for military and police who only shoot factory ammo - they were not intended for the sports market. Glock is looking at that market now and has tightened up their factory chambers in Gen 4s and 5s (without any fanfare of course since to do so would have been an admission that there was some kind of design problems causing the kabooms of the past). The 40cal was where most of the problems were anyway. I really like the supported chambers like your Springfield. Continued good shootin’ to ya.. FC Steve
I really enjoy your channel! It's clear to me that you dedicate your time and energy to the fun and the knowledge of shooting to the greater shooting community. You are an ambassador of wisdom for the sport of shooting and reloading and are creating a fine legacy that will educate and entertain for generations to come! My gratitude to you sir!
i have a glock41 gen 4 in 45acp. i discovered the hard way that the glock barrel does not fully support the round, resulting in a case rupture when firing a set of loads that were well under the pressure limits. i switched to a kkm precision barrel, no more issues.
So it should be the same warning for the 10mm. The 10mm is not fully supported in the Glock and the brass gets stuck in the dies so I throw Glock fired brass in the scrap bucket.
jeremy74pow - You are absolutely spot on...but the warnings are not on the 10mm in the Lyman manuals - why not is a mystery. The 10mm empties really get blown out and smiled with the Gen 2s and Gen 3s. Have a great day, FC Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC The Gen 4 Glocks seem to have fully supported chambers. I've never seen a smile or bulge of any kind in my model 40. Many of the pieces of brass I use were originally Underwood 200gr 1250 fps loads, which I've reloaded multiple times with 180gr 1100 fps loads and no issues at all. When I got it, I thought I'd need an aftermarket barrel, but I no longer feel it's required.
There's also other good and popular firearms that have special or exclusive characteristics that consiencous handloaders should be aware of in order to assemble safe and reliable ammo. One can never have too much information. Good video.
Need to get the KKM barrel yet for my 10mm. Been hearing horror stories even with stock federal ammo. I dropped a round in the stock barrel to check play and support and it was like a hotdog in a hallway.
Appreciate the warning but does anyone know of a barrel manufacturer that makes a glock 22 or 24 barrel that offers more support than a factory barrel?
Thank you Sir for the information 👍 I wish more people would pay attention to what you are telling them there would be a lot less mistakes pay attention to everything you do in reloading
I read or saw some where about the glock bulge or smile being a problem with glock 40 cal. So I purchased a after market barrel go my Gen 5 G19. Because I reload most of my ammunition. Thanks for sharing your information.
I’ve said this for years, but Glock.40 cal owners usually just go nuts and yell about you saying anything bad about their Glocks. They’re a sensitive crowd... great vid!
S M - Thanks and yes, I've seen some of what you say. There's no denying that Glock has been one the most successful firearms designs ever - in the league of Garand, Kalashnikov, Stoner, not quite in league of JMB. It's taken a heap of videos to even get the point across that Glock polygonal rifling is not true polygonal, but rather should have been called Glock Rifling - they missed a great opportunity there. And if it really was Glock Perfection, no Kabooms would ever happen anywhere. I'm definitely not a Glock basher since I own several. And everything in this video in regards to Glock unsupported chambers can easily be checked. We shooters need to have a healthy dose of realization to go along with our enamorization. In firearms, everything is a tradeoff - we choose what is safe and works. Best to ya, FC Steve
As for Law Enforcement going back to 9mm.....don't know why they would go back in reverse based on ballistic gel testing. Out in the real world that doesn't mean squat and it takes on average 3 to 5 rounds to drop somebody with a 9mm. With a .40 S&W or .45 ACP it is usually 1 to 2 rounds. They will change back after more of these shootouts transpire and have a memory jogging why they abandoned it in the first place in the early 90's. Around me all Departments including State and County all use either .40 S&W or .45 ACP. No 9mms have been used since about '91 or '92.
Lee's new warning on their bulge buster kits-- Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture--. I have after market barrels on my Glock .45 and 10mm. I did this for competition reasons. However I think it is a good thing to do ...Better safe than sorry .. but I have not had a problem using these two pistols in the 1000s of rounds that I have put down range over the years. I have always used a De-bulging kit. My guns didn't blow up. Will the cases split .. yes. they will. .. over time.. and many re-loadings. So many that I could not give an accurate count but more than ten. I think the real problem happens when the cases are not de-bulged. It's an extra step that many people don't do. .. or heard about. Also I have not loaded full power loads that often.
The 357 Sig is not made from 40 Smith brass. It's made from 10 mm brass. It is longer before it's cut and shaped. 40 Smith brass is too short to turn into 357 Sig brass. The 40 Smith issue has been remediated by making the base of the casings the way they were supposed to in the first place. Why they didn't I still do not know to this day. But they did not make the base of the case strong enough to be properly supported especially in a throated chamber.
Your such a important educator to the shooting community FC45 Thanks once again . I didn't know that about the Glock how it doesn't fully support the case of the cartridge. Just one more reason not to spend my money in Austria. Who am I kidding! I have always been a 1911, and Sig Sauer guy too!
Thanks for the HEADS UP Sir!!! I am a BIG 40SW Fan and Shooter I own many 40 that also have the 357SIG barrels so I can shoot both calibers. FYI: The 357 SIG is not based on the 40SW cartridge if you look at the case thickness you will see that it is a 10mm casing that was neckdown and trimmed to be the size of a 40sw. The 357SIG has a HIGHER Chamber Pressure 20,000-45,000psi the same as 357 Magnum according to ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3 - 2015 publication. Many of my 40 cal pistols are Glocks and I know that if I use the OEM barrel the brass is useless for reloading since the unsupported chambers and the looser tolerances that make the GLock such a Reliable Pistol also basicarry destroy the Chances to Reload but if an good aftermarket Barrel is installed that supports the chamber and increases tolerances to keep the brass from expanding out of spec while keeping reliability then that is a winning combination. So far I have had Great Luck with Storm Lake Barrels and Alpha Wolf barrels on my GLocks boths in Reliability, accuracy and keeping brass within spec.
The 357SIG walls are thicker than the 40SW. Since Smith and Wesson started with a 10mm Auto casing to make the 40SW and then loaded it with the 180gr bullet and a powder charge that was equivalent to the light 10mm auto that the FBI wanted to use and allowed all agents to qualify with the new weapons and the new caliber. Sig Sauer wanted to create their own caliber so they looked at what Smith and Wesson and Dillon had done starting with the 10mm but they wanted a casing that would fit the 40sw magazines then they played with the powder load to get 357 Magnum performance similar to that of the 125gr JHP projectile. If look at a 40sw there not enough casing to neckdown and keep the same length as the 357 Sig. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG www.range365.com/amazing-357-sig#page-5 This two articles will give some more info on the 357 Sig. I have the Sig P226R and P229R with both the 40SW/357SIg barrels, Glock G22, G23, G24,G35 with both 40sw/357sig barrels and G31. I have 3 Glock 22s a Gen 3, RTF2 and Gen 4. The 357SIG is an AWESOME Caliber I believe because you can have 13, 16, 18, 23 rounds in a pistol ready to go of 357 Magnum power that can be fired very accurately and under control very quickly. My Gen 4 Glock 35 has a Storm Lake barrel and the pistol has Suarez Tactical trigger that is Extremely Sweet almost NO takeup 4.5 LB trigger pull with that trigger plus a competition Stainless Steel guide rod with a weight that is a reverse plug in the slide the 35 is a Laser Beam shooting 357SIG specially when using the Glock Brand 22 round 40sw Magazines that also Work Great with 357 Sig rounds.
I have to second Skeptical Shooter except I took a different approach to draw a similar conclusion. After weighing random .40 and 357 cases, most overlapped. The lightest sample was a .40, the heaviest a 357. If you use the two extremes as samples for comparison then yes it would appear there is more brass to a 357 case. Again, the majority of cases I sampled overlapped in brass content. Not exactly scientific but enough for me not to except as a hard and fast rule that 357 brass is heavier/thicker then .40.
Here is the Saami.org 2015 Centerfire book look up both the 40sw and 357 sig and you will see the Pressures and the casing specifications. the differences between the two is only a few thousands of an inch but that is enough to keep the difference chamber pressure from blowing up the gun. www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf I had a KaaBoom Incident with a friend's Taurus Millenium PT-140 Gen 1 back in 2003 when he was looking at switching to Magsafe SWAT rounds as his carry load and the round was severely overcharged and the casing ruptured and the pistol did what it is supposed to do the explosion was vectored downward thru the Magazine which was loaded with 4 rounds since the ammo was purchased at a Shoot Straight location which was the company that was manufacturing it at the time they refunded the ammo and replaced the pistol and called an ambulance for me to check my hand which just swelled up a bit. The casing ripped apart at the bottom which is a classic tale of an Over-Charge or wrong powder used. I was Highly Impressed with the Millenium being able to take the explosion without blowing the slide and barrel and I have seen both Glocks and SW MPs blow both that probably saved my hand. Here is something to: Why is it that 40SW pistol have KaaBoom Incidents More Often than 357 Sig with unsupported barrels. The first thing I like to do when I get a new Glock is to get a aftermarket barrel is supports the chamber to minimize incidence chances.
From my experience 357 sig sees less kabooms over .40 mainly due to chamber support. The 357 sig doesn't require hogging out the feed ramp portion of the chamber for reliability. The support of my 98 G32 is visually on par with a Lone Wolf barrel. I've fired handloads almost exclusively over the past 20 years which includes many loadings made from .40 brass and don't recall my G32 creating Glocked brass. Out of curiosity, I'm going to dig up 10 pieces of .40 brass of the same head stamp, form 357 out of 5 and load 5 .40 and 5 357 at max using same powder and fire from a stock 23 and 32 and compare the brass. I've reviewed the SAAMI drawings several times and don't follow how brass thickness is depicted between 357 and .40. I don't deny that it is but more the fact it's not what's found in practice.
I know this also applies to 10mm in some Glocks. I swapped mine for a fully supported aftermarket barrel since I like to shoot suppresses anyways it was a win-win for me and it’s button rifled so I can shoot cast reloads as well. Although I won’t in conjunction with a silencer because they are a pain to clean lead off of the baffles haha. Another great video sir!
When it comes to 10mm Glocks, I think the factory barrels are a total waste. Can't shoot lead, can't use a suppressor... Glock all but forces you to buy an aftermarket barrel with them. People would be better off buying a used Glock 21 and the 10mm conversion barrel instead.
Dick Tickles yeah very true. I have a G40 and I love it but the first thing I did was buy a new barrel for it but for what I wanted it for the G41 would t have been a bad option either. But I wanted the MOS for an RMR for longer range target shooting.
Peracetic acid works great for cleaning silencer baffles. It's referred to as "the dip" or "dipping a silencer." Mix vinegar and hydrogen peroxide 1:1 and soak the parts for 10-15 minutes. The solution is powerful. Don't leave steel parts in for too long because it can attack some alloys. Be VERY careful with the resulting waste solution. It contains lead acetate which is water soluble and readily absorbed into the body. Wear gloves and don't get it on skin. Do NOT pour it down the drain. This is also helpful for heavily leaded stainless steel revolver cylinders due to undersized bullets. Again, be very careful with soaking it. I don't remember if it removes bluing but it's corrosive and it very well may remove some types of bluing.
mannys9130 hey thanks. Yeah I've never tried the dip but I've heard of it. I haven't tried it with my 45 can before but the baffle stack is user serviceable and stainless steel. I usually use a sonic cleaner but haven't tried that with lead either since I haven't shot any through that can. But the dip might be worth my while if I ever start throwing cast lead through it, it definitely would be cheaper.
FZ rc You're welcome. It's very handy and almost a must for .22 caliber silencers as most ammo (especially subsonic) is lead. Combined with the overall dirty powder nature of rimfire cartridges, the baffles get disgusting after a while. It's really handy. With caution, it eliminates a lot of hard scrubbing. :)
Pete - I was beginning to wonder if I was missing something...40 cal brass is not being seen on the concrete at our range - lots of 9 and 45 though. Used to see lots of 40. And there are lots of 40 cal guns out there. Best to ya, FC Steve
It's now 2020. I've been a range officer for 5 years and I can tell you if nobody shoots .40 caliber anymore. In fact, the local PD switched over to 45 ACP. Plenty of 9mm and .223 Brass is left on the Range though. 380 and .45...not so much.
Thanks for the Glock warning. This is notable in 1911 type unsupported two piece frame to barrel ramps, in any caliber including 9mm. +P should be used with caution and +P+ and "NATO" spec not at all with the separate barrel and feed ramp even though that brass is suppose to be thicker. Also note that MANY 45 acp have been over throated to where the throat sides are at 4 and 8 oclock. Too wide, making the unsupported area very large. Guns with these barrels should only use reloaded ammo using +P brass, regardless of powder charge. Thanks again.
HotRodRay - Oh, yes - and in the early IPSC days when we were balancing higher Power Factor / brass strength / case support / feeding reliability, there certainly were times of excitement. Have a great day, FC Steve
I am surprised it's not on 10mm more than 357 Sig. .357 Sig having a tighter chamber due to being a shouldered case makes sense since shit should be less susceptible to misfeeding.
thetriode - Not on 10mm either...my guess is that there aren't anywhere as many Kabooms since the 40 cal is so much more popular than the 10. But the warnings should be there as well. Have a great day, FC Steve
I only use a lone wolf fully supported chamber in my Glocks. I also only use 165 grain projectiles and mid range charges. If a 180grain gets overseated even a tiny bit pressures double really quick.
I think all this bad rep about Glock 40's is designed to lower prices on Glock pistols in 40 cal. Maybe not, but it sure seems like it. About 22 or 23 years ago I witnessed a man hang an old vest on a chainlink fense. It was 5 years old or so, he explained. The vest contained the hardened steel plate used as protection against a heart shot. Anyway he used conventional FMJ ammo to shoot at just the bullet proof vest part. The FMJ's completely penetrated the front and the back of the vest. Then someone handed him a Cor-Bon bullet and he shot the vest and the hardened steel plate. The bullet went through the vest, the steel plate and the back of the vest also. Then he fired a conventional FMJ at the plate protected part of the vest. The round went through the vest the plate and through the back of the vest also. It was hard to believe that a bullet from the Glock 40 S&W would have that much power. He called the governor and complained about the vest and the plate not being able to stop the bullet. The governor didn't like the call one little bit. Next thing I know reloading Manuals and most 40 S&W factory ammo have reduced loads. Then all this bad rep started about the 40 S&W. Makes me wonder if the swamp or government didn't like the 40, or any other gun or pistol that could not be stopped by a bulletproof vest at that time. So they maybe they tried to kill the 40? Who knows what they did.
ShinyPartsUp - You can say that. We video posters can't say that. Better yet, take opportunities to let advertisers know that our buying habits are affected by TH-cam ads. That's what they really want to see... Best to ya, FC Steve
Thank you your the best !! I have 2 40 cal glocks, i have a wolf barrel in my 23. But when i use it the slide will fall off the gun at times if you allow the muzzle to be pointed at the ground. It doesnt happen with the Glock barrel, but need to have wolf look at it to see why its contacting the stabbs?? Thanks again for watching out for your fellow shooter!!! I do reload for this cartridge, but keep them on the low side of the pressure curve.
dowdawg - Very wise advice - our reloads are good practice, range and recreational ammo. Your Wolf barrel is out of spec and unacceptable. Definitely, Wolf will want that barrel back - if you bought it from Midway - they'll exchange it for you post haste. Or the factory certainly will as well. Always good to year from ya, bro.. FC Steve
I’ve shot a few .40 caliber handguns, but do not own one and don’t want one, so this is sort of news for me. I’m surprised that warning is not on the 10mm. Now there is a round that is well known for bulged and cracked cases in the higher pressure loads. I’ve seen it in my own G20 and I do not reload for any of my Glocks, and I have a few. All factory loads. I’ve also never felt the need for an aftermarket Glock barrel. You have some older videos on this subject that you might want to link to in the description of this video. They are well worth watching again.
Thanks for this. I feel like I inspired this video with my Glock 19 Gen4 question on your Patreon page, so thanks! I received my aftermarket Glock 19 barrel and compared it to the stock one with my calipers. It's advertised as having full case support, and is identical to the factory Glock barrel in that way. The one difference being that the aftermarket barrels chamber is .0025" tighter, but they both cover the full length of the case exactly the same. Thanks again LC.
My EDC Glock has an aftermarket barrel for just this slight but meaningful risk. Probably time to check my .40S&W P226 and see how that is. Interesting to see if it is the case (pun intended) in the Sig.
Is the 40 brass and 10mm brass the same thickness? I bought a Lonewolf barrel for my 10mm but it doesn't have any more support then the factory barrel.
2671996619fedcba - The 40 cal came about by shortening the 10mm case. If you take fired brass from your Glock barrel and your LW barrel and measure the head web areas of both, the comparisons will tell you definitely whether your LW barrel has the web support. If you don't get that, that is the primary reason we buy those barrels in the first place (the second reason is to get the cut rifling for shooting cast bullets). A call to the factory would be in order if the case support is not there. Best to ya, FC Steve
Todd Duncan that's weird, because the case head support on both my factory model 40 barrel and my LW barrel have identical feedramp measurements and support the case to the same depth, only difference between the two barrels besides the type of rifling is the LW barrel has a chamber cut to slightly tighter specs, but casehead and feedramp support are identical on mine.
Thank you FC Steve for explaining this very important fact concerning the .40 S&W and unsupported chambers; this can be seen as an accident just waiting to occur if improper loading or lower quality brass is used for this caliber..I have tried to explain this to a friend of mine who wants me to load him some.40S&W rounds for his Glock Now I can just show him this very well explained video and he should understand.
Hi FC very interesting find. I just bought a Glock 10mm and want to shoot Underwood ammunition which is some hot ammo. After watching your video I am wondering if I should buy a safer barrel for it? Can you recommend a safe after market barrel? My Glock barrel is 6 inches long. Thanks!
Old comment but I'll reply anyway as I have the same gun that I believe you have, a Glock model 40 MOS. As far as I can tell it has full case head support, definitely more than the Glocks of old. I have fired a fairly steady diet of warm to hot loads in mine with no issues as of yet. It's seen several boxes of Underwood as well as a few hundred rounds of my handload which is a 180gr polycoated hard cast (.401) on top of 7.5 grains of power pistol. I do not have a chronograph but judging by the recoil this should be an 1100+ fps load. I've seen no pressure signs and no case failures of any kind. That being said, the brass does take noticeably more effort to resize than does the brass fired out of my Ruger 1911 in 10mm.
I had a Glock 41 and Glock 19 (gen 2) that both had the case head rupture on reloads. No damage to the guns. I lost a .45 acp magazine on the 41 and had to dig some brass out of my nose with the 19.
.40 S&W still has more energy foot lbs than both 9×19 and .45 ACP and is tied for effectiveness with .357 Magnum according to the 17 year study on shootings examined in the book Street Stoppers... Just a thought .40 S&W is a great cartridge along with the beast that is 10mm, however not a good cartridge for reloading near max charges.
TheRotorhound - Yes, it is old info to those who know. Does not hurt to point out what Lyman is warning about to get shooters to pause and consider. There are still a lot of shooters who listen to those Glock owners who say they have shot thousands of reloads through their Glock factory barrels with no problems because they make sure they clean the barrels of fouling to prevent the kabooms and use the bulge busters. This may become moot as some are reporting the newer Glocks having more case support and tighter chambers, but I can't really check that as Gen 4s and 5s are not available in CA. Best to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC As far as I know it is the .40 case that is the one to avoid with Glocks. Also those that think the Lee bulge buster can fix the problem are mistaken. Be safe out there when reloading.
My Glock's now pretty much stay in my pistol safe since i reload now. i refuse to buy an aftermarket barrels for them. i dumped enough of money in each pistol already. if someone wants to shoot " a glock " i just buy some steel cased tula junk so they can have some fun. with all the new pistols now and glocks not fixing this issue it's just stupid cause i would never want to see anyone get hurt.....when i'm at my range picking up brass i don't even take the cases that smile at me..............
MegaBait56 - Hmmm, I'm finding that I'm doing the same thing...I like to shoot my cast bullet reloads in my aftermarket barrels in my Glocks, but the POI changes - the factory barrel is on POA-POI. But I only shoot factory white box with my factory barrels at added expense of course. Net effect, I don't shoot my Glocks very often - only when I bring new shooters to the range, and then I give them a box of white box to shoot. Sure it costs me, but they're friends. Best to ya, FC Steve
Steve, i changed the sights, trigger bar on the Glocks that enough of money for me. to spend more money for a barrel that's just crazy. besides i never liked the grip angle on them. i'm into M&P's now cause Jmo. i like the grip angle way better S.S. slide, bbl. mag.'g, good 3 dot sights but i just drop in a Apex trigger kit and they are great semi's then. never any issues with M&P's either. But i'm a wheel gun guy, my son who's into the semi's has them too. plus i always wonder why Glock didn't support the case like most barrels years ago when i bought my first one. now i know why they are made this way but i still think by now they should have come up with barrel or at least offer an option when you buy them? ya can't even say anything bad about them cause the fan boys go crazy. lol. it's nice now that i reload cause i can make up ammo for any cal. i want but, even with the steel case junk the Glocks cycle fine and there older pistols so i really don't worry about them. thanks for showing how to reload it's been fun so far although i'm still slow and careful loading. have a great weekend :)
FC: I used to feel safe in reloading range pick-up brass in .40 S&W even if it had been originally fired in Glocks. I had believed that the full length resizing and the fully supported chambers in my Sig P239, P226 and P229 barrels would keep me safe. Wrong! I blew the extractor out of my 226 Elite with a kaboom. My handloads were hot, but not excessive. The reloads were not double charged and were adequately crimped. . Fortunately, the extractor loss was the only damage, and the Sig is repaired and back in service. I have since discarded all of my .40 S&W reloads that I could not be certain were originally (and only) fired in my Sigs. I no longer pick-up any range brass in semi-auto pistol calibers for fear of getting another “Glocked” case. The Glock in .40S&W is a mistake.
TXARmory - Thanks for posting - your experiences can only help the many others you work with. I used to avoid all brass shot from Glock Gen 2s and 3s (the primer signature as we know). Now, I do pick up the plentiful 9 and 45 if it looks good, undamaged, not blown out or smiled. But on thinking about this, 40 cal brass is not seen anywhere as much as it used to be seen. I'll look closer, but your experience is certainly thought provoking. Best to ya, FC Steve
A VR - I'm glad that others have noticed this. Based on small sample sizes, this seems to be what is happening and no announcements from Glock, of course. Best to ya, FC Steve
Lizard - OK to that...but you should have seen the flak that videos on that generated 4-5 years ago. It was Glock bashing when it wasn't Glock bashing. Best to ya, FC Steve
.40 Stupid & Worthless was a mistake to ever chamber in the Glock 22/23. The case is far too thin for the high and sustained pressure created at the thin case web in an unsupported chamber. Of all the blown up guns I’ve heard about, the vast majority are reloads shot in factory stock barrel Glocks in .40 caliber. There is no margin of error in seating bullets too deep, too much crimp, too much powder, too long cases, lead bullet reloads, etc. Pressures are too high, the cases too thin, the barrels, not providing support. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
What .40 cal needs it to drop to the pressures of .45ACP +P, or increase to the brass density and similar reduced case capacity of .45 super. You will still get smileys and blowouts in poorly designed unsupported chambers but at least there will be a little more margin or error and safety when newbies attempt to reload for the .40 or crappy factory ammo is used.
Hey man !!! - Thanks for that - I have a Sig229 40 cal that has the 357 Sig barrel - takes the same magazine (of course). I didn't do any research, but the case of the 357 Sig looked to me like a necked down 40. Of course, now I realize that it could have been on a shortened 10mm case. Shooting 125 grain 357 screamers out of that Sig229 is a project I haven't gone to yet...but it's there in my video idea cue that has come up but gets reburied. Best to ya, FC Steve
Logan Barnette negative the parent case is a 10mm If you necked a 40 it is shorter then a 357 sig. it’s a cut down then necked 10mm That’s how you get the thicker wall and slightly longer case.
Joshua Noble - I've found it difficult to accept the claim of Glock Perfection when there is a Gen 5 just introduced. If Gen 1s were perfection, no changes are necessary as perfection is complete onto itself. You don't change perfection....you just hang onto it. Best to ya, FC Steve
roostershooter76 - There's a good reason you stopped loading that 40 cal brass, and you realized it. The use of the Lee Bulge Buster is predicated on the concept that the bulge is being "corrected". However, the brass has been strained in firing and is being strained again in the "correction". That working of the brass is the problem - if that exact smile area lines up again with the unsupported spot in the chamber enough times, the brass has to fail - it's a crapshoot. Rifle shooters seeing that kind of strained brass at the case head are horrified. And all those comments of shooting thousands of reloads through factory Glock barrels with no problems as if the practice was safe - really have to be understood for what it is. We can like the Glock - but we cannot deny the shortcomings of unsupported chambers - and they are easy to check out. A lot of shooters seeing that go out and buy aftermarket barrels. Thankfully, I don't see those Glock smiles as much, but interestingly, I also don't see much 40 cal brass lying around like I used to see. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
I wouldn’t load .40 at first, just .357 Sig. I do now, though. I’ve loaded and shot thousands since then with no problem. I don’t use hot loads. I won’t use “smiley” cases, either.
5Rounds Rapid - Thanks for posting...avoidance of smiley 40 cal brass is a sign of wisdom that is now shared by many. A supported chamber goes a long way towards shooting reloads with confidence. Best to ya, bro.. FC Steve
Paul d *their No, FC is extremely experienced... Reloading safety is always relevant no matter what. A lot of new reloaders come here for info and to learn new techniques. Your attitude makes one wonder if YOU are new. When you reload long enough, you see others have KBs and realize safety is paramount.
Paul d - I always do a search on topics before I do them as there is no need to repeat a topic unless there is some new information to present - or present in a different perspective - so you could say that I am, in fact, new. . Don't know about 1998 - so I just did a search on YT and also on internet on 1998 and found a lot of neat stuff, even great songs. But nothing about KBs... Perhaps 1998 is on some forum somewhere, my guess. I don't go on forums very often as there's too much arguing and disrespect found. You might disagree on that though. Hopefully, 1998 might do a video to help others that like the video format. Best to ya, FC Steve
I volunteer at a range for the national forest , cleaning the trash and picking brass on the ground and lead out of the berm , and this is true and documented , that's why people call it "glocked brass" but anytime you mention it or show the brass to a Glock owner , placing the still hot brass in their hand they always say it's bad ammo.
I have two glock 40s. Thanks for the video. I only shoot factory ammo for this reason.
Unsupported is arbitrary at best. A factory ramp barrel of the same gun and caliber can be called fully supported. Take 3 different manufactures of the fully supported ramped barrels and they all vary. There is no specific standard measurement of what is fully supported besides the eye.
9mm pressure is 35,000. 40 s&w pressure is 35,000. Why is this a problem for 40's and not so much for 9's?
YES... I recently saw a video here about Glock barrels. They are intentionally made "loose".
AND have a partly unsupported chamber.
If one wants to reload the 40 in a Glock, it's best to spend the $ for an aftermarket barrel.
Indeed, Lester - and the 40 cal was the caliber with the most Kabooms. And spikey powders like TiteGroup were problematic if loaded on the hot side. The aftermarket barrels provided much needed confidence. As with most manufacturers, Glock factory barrels were intended to shoot factory jacketed ammo only, but because of the unsupported case heads, it was much more of a safety issue with Glock. Based on my own observations, the current Glock iterations have better chamber and case head support. Changes were made without fanfare as otherwise, how could Glock Perfection be justified. Best to ya, FC
@@FortuneCookie45LC I also consider UNIVERSAL to be a "spikey powder".
High energy, but it ramps up quickly.
This is especially true when used in cases where case volume is limited, like 380 acp ect.
How say you...?
For someone like me who is just now getting into reloading( All work no play, until today), Thank you! You go into the right amount of depth to cover the subject without trailing into oblivion. Thank you for allowing us to harness your learning curve.
John Oakley - Thanks for commenting - your gracious and generous remarks are much appreciated. Have a great day, FC
Have questions about reloading?
I have been doing it since early 1993.
Mostly handgun. But there are a few pet rifle cartridges that I have.
I have done some experiments with CAST LEAD loads in some of those rifle cases. Some calibers of rifle are more practical for cast lead than others. This would appear to be a good channel to ask questions about reloading here.
@@lestergillis8171 I have been playing with 30-30 and 223 I found that a really hard 55 gn out of a lee rf224 mold with 22 gn"s of cfe .223 shoots dead on to m193`s at a col of 2.080, projectile unsized if not checked is the key to accuracy with that load. it still has enough velocity to set off a binary so its cooking. 30-30 I under load mostly to save the ridiculously expensive brass. also learned the annealing process for that reason. mil brass you just swage and trim and throw when the neck is done. with prices of bang pill falling( maybe, one of the strange government organizations just made a huge purchase through Winchester not federal kind of spooky) the prices of primers will fall too or simply be back instock other than GB or other highway robbery sites.
@@johnoakley5544 Strange that you mention all this... In some of my old cast bullet manuals, there is mention of some kind of cast bullet RIFLE SHOOTERS "club". Within a few paragraphs the book explained that between quenching and alloys, some of these shooters were able to fire 223s at near factory jacketed velocities.
I have two AR-15s but both are in 7.62×39. I have no particular desire to run cast lead through a DGI rifle.
One of my 30-30s is a different story as velocities there are not as high to begin with.
@@lestergillis8171 I just wanted to see if I could prove the theory with the .223. The 30-30 is just hard to find and expensive if you do. I under load 2-4 grains from min depending on powder. starline and norma are out of stock on brass.
That's why the call it 40 Caliber Smith & Breakin
I saw a guy with a ruger Blackhawk in .357 magnum. What he did wrong was use a double charge of Bullseye. It cracked the revolver cylinder and that was it. Sent it to Ruger and they fitted a new cylinder for 35.oo. Why am I telling this, its because some guns like the Blackhawk are so strong they don't just disintegrate like Rossi's and Some Taurus revolvers can. If using a powder like bullseye, WEIGH EACH CHARGE TO DARN SURE YOU ARENT SCREWING UP. I USE TRAILBOSS BECAUSE IT IS BILKIER AND HARDER TO SCREW UP. Be safe and sorry for the caps lock on.
An alternative, is to modify your reloading technique so that you charge a case and seat a bullet immediately so that you don't have to worry about double charging.
Thank you for this vital information.
I have two Glock Gen4s in .40 S&W. Neither factory barrel has a hint of this issue. I've fired lots of factory and reloaded rounds, some of them rather hot, without a single Glock smile. As for a taper crimp being necessary to avoid bullets getting pushed into the case upon chambering, that's not the taper crimp's purpose. Too much taper crimp can easily cause rounds to chamber too deeply because that case mouth is what sets the headspace. Neck tension holds the bullet in its proper position, not taper crimp.
On a semi-auto you need .002" - .005" taper crimp to function properly and be properly headspaced. Right in the middle is ideal with .003" to .004".
I didn't know that the 357 Sig operated at such high pressure. 🤔
But then, I don't own any, and therefore don't need to reload any.
357 Sig is actually not a necked down 40 case. It is a shortened 10mm case that is actually longer than the 40 case. If you try necking down the 40 to 357 Sig it will be too short and not hold the bullet.
When I started to reload my ammunition I read up on how and what to do. I purchased a Dillon progressive loader for the easy change out between calibers. What I found in Dillons literature, Hornady’s literature, and two other books on reloading all said the same thing. Always check your cases if you purchased or collect range brass for the square firing pin marks on the primers. If you find that throw them away due to them being Glock fired rounds never reload this brass!!! I always throw them away and never use them and this is why I will never own a Glock.
Got to admit. I've been reloading and firing Glock fired brass and also any type of fired brass that I find since about the year 2000 or so. I don't remember exactly. One thing I've always done is inspect range finds. After cleaning the brass.
I started this practice of reloading and firing glock fired brass before all this info about the Glock smile(bulge) was made public info.
One thing I always have done and still do is throw away all the cases that have the Glock bulge. Or any brass that looks like it's contained extream pressures. It always seemed to me that those cases were fired under excessive pressures.
Never had any issues with reloads. Thanks be to God Almighty.
Another clue is cases that have lengthened (grown) excessively. You'll find these with your case trimmer. I throw these in the trash barrel also.
But I don't recommend loading 40 brass if you are a novice reloader without experience in loading short semiauto rounds.
Great! I just bought a .40 cal Glock. Better timing than after I shoot it.
Is there a particular manufactures brass that is just thinner than the other? Is there any record of if it has shown one is more common to rupture?
So should we anneal the entire case if it was shot out of an unsupported chamber? If picking up range brass should we play it safe assume that the brass was shot out of stock Glock?
I bought an alpha wolf barrel for my G22. I shoot my reloads in the aftermarket barrel (great for cheap cast loads), and carry with the factory barrel with factory ammo. I did this because of your videos about the problems with Glocks, epsecially with the .40 S&W (and because of Lyman's warning in my 50th edition reloading manual)... Thanks!
This is why I like my Springfield XD in .40 a tad more. Supported chamber, standard rifling and a less expensive gun than Glock to begin with. No aftermarket parts needed to reload and shoot whatever I want.
KG - You are on much more secure ground with your Glock setup. That’s been the problem with Glocks. They are fantastic guns for shooting factory ammo as they were intended for military and police who only shoot factory ammo - they were not intended for the sports market. Glock is looking at that market now and has tightened up their factory chambers in Gen 4s and 5s (without any fanfare of course since to do so would have been an admission that there was some kind of design problems causing the kabooms of the past). The 40cal was where most of the problems were anyway. I really like the supported chambers like your Springfield. Continued good shootin’ to ya.. FC Steve
I really enjoy your channel! It's clear to me that you dedicate your time and energy to the fun and the knowledge of shooting to the greater shooting community. You are an ambassador of wisdom for the sport of shooting and reloading and are creating a fine legacy that will educate and entertain for generations to come! My gratitude to you sir!
i have a glock41 gen 4 in 45acp. i discovered the hard way that the glock barrel does not fully support the round, resulting in a case rupture when firing a set of loads that were well under the pressure limits. i switched to a kkm precision barrel, no more issues.
So it should be the same warning for the 10mm. The 10mm is not fully supported in the Glock and the brass gets stuck in the dies so I throw Glock fired brass in the scrap bucket.
jeremy74pow - You are absolutely spot on...but the warnings are not on the 10mm in the Lyman manuals - why not is a mystery. The 10mm empties really get blown out and smiled with the Gen 2s and Gen 3s. Have a great day, FC Steve
@@FortuneCookie45LC The Gen 4 Glocks seem to have fully supported chambers. I've never seen a smile or bulge of any kind in my model 40. Many of the pieces of brass I use were originally Underwood 200gr 1250 fps loads, which I've reloaded multiple times with 180gr 1100 fps loads and no issues at all. When I got it, I thought I'd need an aftermarket barrel, but I no longer feel it's required.
Yes Steve. Years ago we used IMI Israeli 45 acp brass because it was thicker than American +P.
HotRod Ray - There you go, Ray --- stronger brass is good for sure... Best to ya, FC Steve
There's also other good and popular firearms that have special or exclusive characteristics that consiencous handloaders should be aware of in order to assemble safe and reliable ammo. One can never have too much information. Good video.
It should have the same warning for the 10mm.
Need to get the KKM barrel yet for my 10mm. Been hearing horror stories even with stock federal ammo. I dropped a round in the stock barrel to check play and support and it was like a hotdog in a hallway.
Very well done. Thanks for all the Safety Information.
Ralph His - And thank you for taking the time to post comment...Have a great day, FC Steve
Appreciate the warning but does anyone know of a barrel manufacturer that makes a glock 22 or 24 barrel that offers more support than a factory barrel?
very important info......I downsized calibers and one of them was 40S&W
Thank you for this important information.
EP - And thank you for taking the time to post comment - much appreciated. FC Steve
Thanks for the info. Safety always matters.
Thank you Sir for the information 👍 I wish more people would pay attention to what you are telling them there would be a lot less mistakes pay attention to everything you do in reloading
To each their own, I've just never understood the love for the .40.
I read or saw some where about the glock bulge or smile being a problem with glock 40 cal. So I purchased a after market barrel go my Gen 5 G19. Because I reload most of my ammunition. Thanks for sharing your information.
I’ve said this for years, but Glock.40 cal owners usually just go nuts and yell about you saying anything bad about their Glocks. They’re a sensitive crowd... great vid!
S M - Thanks and yes, I've seen some of what you say. There's no denying that Glock has been one the most successful firearms designs ever - in the league of Garand, Kalashnikov, Stoner, not quite in league of JMB. It's taken a heap of videos to even get the point across that Glock polygonal rifling is not true polygonal, but rather should have been called Glock Rifling - they missed a great opportunity there. And if it really was Glock Perfection, no Kabooms would ever happen anywhere. I'm definitely not a Glock basher since I own several. And everything in this video in regards to Glock unsupported chambers can easily be checked. We shooters need to have a healthy dose of realization to go along with our enamorization. In firearms, everything is a tradeoff - we choose what is safe and works. Best to ya, FC Steve
As a lover of 40 I first bought a bulge buster before any other dies. I rarely load hot rounds and I label those.
Never had an issue with thousands of full power .40 handloads in a half dozen Glocks 🤷🏿♂️
.357 Sig is fully supported because the bottleneck allows reliable feeding without the relieved ramp.
As for Law Enforcement going back to 9mm.....don't know why they would go back in reverse based on ballistic gel testing. Out in the real world that doesn't mean squat and it takes on average 3 to 5 rounds to drop somebody with a 9mm. With a .40 S&W or .45 ACP it is usually 1 to 2 rounds. They will change back after more of these shootouts transpire and have a memory jogging why they abandoned it in the first place in the early 90's. Around me all Departments including State and County all use either .40 S&W or .45 ACP. No 9mms have been used since about '91 or '92.
Good information and good video explanation. Thanks
Lee's new warning on their bulge buster kits--
Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture--.
I have after market barrels on my Glock .45 and 10mm. I did this for competition reasons. However I think it is a good thing to do ...Better safe than sorry .. but I have not had a problem using these two pistols in the 1000s of rounds that I have put down range over the years. I have always used a De-bulging kit. My guns didn't blow up. Will the cases split .. yes. they will. .. over time.. and many re-loadings. So many that I could not give an accurate count but more than ten. I think the real problem happens when the cases are not de-bulged. It's an extra step that many people don't do. .. or heard about. Also I have not loaded full power loads that often.
Thanks for the info Cookie! Best to know of any warning then none.
The 357 Sig is not made from 40 Smith brass. It's made from 10 mm brass. It is longer before it's cut and shaped. 40 Smith brass is too short to turn into 357 Sig brass. The 40 Smith issue has been remediated by making the base of the casings the way they were supposed to in the first place. Why they didn't I still do not know to this day. But they did not make the base of the case strong enough to be properly supported especially in a throated chamber.
Your such a important educator to the shooting community FC45 Thanks once again . I didn't know that about the Glock how it doesn't fully support the case of the cartridge. Just one more reason not to spend my money in Austria. Who am I kidding! I have always been a 1911, and Sig Sauer guy too!
Thanks for the HEADS UP Sir!!! I am a BIG 40SW Fan and Shooter I own many 40 that also have the 357SIG barrels so I can shoot both calibers.
FYI: The 357 SIG is not based on the 40SW cartridge if you look at the case thickness you will see that it is a 10mm casing that was neckdown and trimmed to be the size of a 40sw. The 357SIG has a HIGHER Chamber Pressure 20,000-45,000psi the same as 357 Magnum according to ANSI/SAAMI Z299.3 - 2015 publication. Many of my 40 cal pistols are Glocks and I know that if I use the OEM barrel the brass is useless for reloading since the unsupported chambers and the looser tolerances that make the GLock such a Reliable Pistol also basicarry destroy the Chances to Reload but if an good aftermarket Barrel is installed that supports the chamber and increases tolerances to keep the brass from expanding out of spec while keeping reliability then that is a winning combination. So far I have had Great Luck with Storm Lake Barrels and Alpha Wolf barrels on my GLocks boths in Reliability, accuracy and keeping brass within spec.
af22raptor23503 - Thanks for the correction, good to know. Continued good shootin' to ya..!! FC Steve
The 357SIG walls are thicker than the 40SW. Since Smith and Wesson started with a 10mm Auto casing to make the 40SW and then loaded it with the 180gr bullet and a powder charge that was equivalent to the light 10mm auto that the FBI wanted to use and allowed all agents to qualify with the new weapons and the new caliber. Sig Sauer wanted to create their own caliber so they looked at what Smith and Wesson and Dillon had done starting with the 10mm but they wanted a casing that would fit the 40sw magazines then they played with the powder load to get 357 Magnum performance similar to that of the 125gr JHP projectile. If look at a 40sw there not enough casing to neckdown and keep the same length as the 357 Sig.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIG
www.range365.com/amazing-357-sig#page-5
This two articles will give some more info on the 357 Sig. I have the Sig P226R and P229R with both the 40SW/357SIg barrels, Glock G22, G23, G24,G35 with both 40sw/357sig barrels and G31. I have 3 Glock 22s a Gen 3, RTF2 and Gen 4. The 357SIG is an AWESOME Caliber I believe because you can have 13, 16, 18, 23 rounds in a pistol ready to go of 357 Magnum power that can be fired very accurately and under control very quickly. My Gen 4 Glock 35 has a Storm Lake barrel and the pistol has Suarez Tactical trigger that is Extremely Sweet almost NO takeup 4.5 LB trigger pull with that trigger plus a competition Stainless Steel guide rod with a weight that is a reverse plug in the slide the 35 is a Laser Beam shooting 357SIG specially when using the Glock Brand 22 round 40sw Magazines that also Work Great with 357 Sig rounds.
I have to second Skeptical Shooter except I took a different approach to draw a similar conclusion. After weighing random .40 and 357 cases, most overlapped. The lightest sample was a .40, the heaviest a 357.
If you use the two extremes as samples for comparison then yes it would appear there is more brass to a 357 case. Again, the majority of cases I sampled overlapped in brass content. Not exactly scientific but enough for me not to except as a hard and fast rule that 357 brass is heavier/thicker then .40.
Here is the Saami.org 2015 Centerfire book look up both the 40sw and 357 sig and you will see the Pressures and the casing specifications. the differences between the two is only a few thousands of an inch but that is enough to keep the difference chamber pressure from blowing up the gun.
www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/publications/download/205.pdf
I had a KaaBoom Incident with a friend's Taurus Millenium PT-140 Gen 1 back in 2003 when he was looking at switching to Magsafe SWAT rounds as his carry load and the round was severely overcharged and the casing ruptured and the pistol did what it is supposed to do the explosion was vectored downward thru the Magazine which was loaded with 4 rounds since the ammo was purchased at a Shoot Straight location which was the company that was manufacturing it at the time they refunded the ammo and replaced the pistol and called an ambulance for me to check my hand which just swelled up a bit. The casing ripped apart at the bottom which is a classic tale of an Over-Charge or wrong powder used. I was Highly Impressed with the Millenium being able to take the explosion without blowing the slide and barrel and I have seen both Glocks and SW MPs blow both that probably saved my hand.
Here is something to:
Why is it that 40SW pistol have KaaBoom Incidents More Often than 357 Sig with unsupported barrels. The first thing I like to do when I get a new Glock is to get a aftermarket barrel is supports the chamber to minimize incidence chances.
From my experience 357 sig sees less kabooms over .40 mainly due to chamber support. The 357 sig doesn't require hogging out the feed ramp portion of the chamber for reliability. The support of my 98 G32 is visually on par with a Lone Wolf barrel. I've fired handloads almost exclusively over the past 20 years which includes many loadings made from .40 brass and don't recall my G32 creating Glocked brass. Out of curiosity, I'm going to dig up 10 pieces of .40 brass of the same head stamp, form 357 out of 5 and load 5 .40 and 5 357 at max using same powder and fire from a stock 23 and 32 and compare the brass.
I've reviewed the SAAMI drawings several times and don't follow how brass thickness is depicted between 357 and .40. I don't deny that it is but more the fact it's not what's found in practice.
I know this also applies to 10mm in some Glocks. I swapped mine for a fully supported aftermarket barrel since I like to shoot suppresses anyways it was a win-win for me and it’s button rifled so I can shoot cast reloads as well. Although I won’t in conjunction with a silencer because they are a pain to clean lead off of the baffles haha. Another great video sir!
When it comes to 10mm Glocks, I think the factory barrels are a total waste. Can't shoot lead, can't use a suppressor... Glock all but forces you to buy an aftermarket barrel with them. People would be better off buying a used Glock 21 and the 10mm conversion barrel instead.
Dick Tickles yeah very true. I have a G40 and I love it but the first thing I did was buy a new barrel for it but for what I wanted it for the G41 would t have been a bad option either. But I wanted the MOS for an RMR for longer range target shooting.
Peracetic acid works great for cleaning silencer baffles. It's referred to as "the dip" or "dipping a silencer." Mix vinegar and hydrogen peroxide 1:1 and soak the parts for 10-15 minutes. The solution is powerful. Don't leave steel parts in for too long because it can attack some alloys. Be VERY careful with the resulting waste solution. It contains lead acetate which is water soluble and readily absorbed into the body. Wear gloves and don't get it on skin. Do NOT pour it down the drain. This is also helpful for heavily leaded stainless steel revolver cylinders due to undersized bullets. Again, be very careful with soaking it. I don't remember if it removes bluing but it's corrosive and it very well may remove some types of bluing.
mannys9130 hey thanks. Yeah I've never tried the dip but I've heard of it. I haven't tried it with my 45 can before but the baffle stack is user serviceable and stainless steel. I usually use a sonic cleaner but haven't tried that with lead either since I haven't shot any through that can. But the dip might be worth my while if I ever start throwing cast lead through it, it definitely would be cheaper.
FZ rc You're welcome. It's very handy and almost a must for .22 caliber silencers as most ammo (especially subsonic) is lead. Combined with the overall dirty powder nature of rimfire cartridges, the baffles get disgusting after a while. It's really handy. With caution, it eliminates a lot of hard scrubbing. :)
My big issue with the 40 SW is that I cannot find range brass anymore!
However, used 40 SW pistols are plentiful and less expensive these days.
Pete - I was beginning to wonder if I was missing something...40 cal brass is not being seen on the concrete at our range - lots of 9 and 45 though. Used to see lots of 40. And there are lots of 40 cal guns out there. Best to ya, FC Steve
It's now 2020. I've been a range officer for 5 years and I can tell you if nobody shoots .40 caliber anymore. In fact, the local PD switched over to 45 ACP.
Plenty of 9mm and .223 Brass is left on the Range though. 380 and .45...not so much.
I think I know what happened to the 40 brass. I probably picked all of it up. Lol.
Thank you for that information. I will check each 40 S&W pistol tonight.
Thanks for the Glock warning. This is notable in 1911 type unsupported two piece frame to barrel ramps, in any caliber including 9mm. +P should be used with caution and +P+ and "NATO" spec not at all with the separate barrel and feed ramp even though that brass is suppose to be thicker. Also note that MANY 45 acp have been over throated to where the throat sides are at 4 and 8 oclock. Too wide, making the unsupported area very large. Guns with these barrels should only use reloaded ammo using +P brass, regardless of powder charge. Thanks again.
HotRodRay - Oh, yes - and in the early IPSC days when we were balancing higher Power Factor / brass strength / case support / feeding reliability, there certainly were times of excitement. Have a great day, FC Steve
I am surprised it's not on 10mm more than 357 Sig. .357 Sig having a tighter chamber due to being a shouldered case makes sense since shit should be less susceptible to misfeeding.
thetriode - Not on 10mm either...my guess is that there aren't anywhere as many Kabooms since the 40 cal is so much more popular than the 10. But the warnings should be there as well. Have a great day, FC Steve
Thanks for showing this FC45LC. I did have an experience with this happened once.
Bob Hartman - Wow, Bob... who knows, I might have one also some day, heaven forbid... Best to ya, FC Steve
I only use a lone wolf fully supported chamber in my Glocks. I also only use 165 grain projectiles and mid range charges. If a 180grain gets overseated even a tiny bit pressures double really quick.
I think all this bad rep about Glock 40's is designed to lower prices on Glock pistols in 40 cal. Maybe not, but it sure seems like it.
About 22 or 23 years ago I witnessed a man hang an old vest on a chainlink fense. It was 5 years old or so, he explained. The vest contained the hardened steel plate used as protection against a heart shot. Anyway he used conventional FMJ ammo to shoot at just the bullet proof vest part. The FMJ's completely penetrated the front and the back of the vest. Then someone handed him a Cor-Bon bullet and he shot the vest and the hardened steel plate. The bullet went through the vest, the steel plate and the back of the vest also. Then he fired a conventional FMJ at the plate protected part of the vest. The round went through the vest the plate and through the back of the vest also. It was hard to believe that a bullet from the Glock 40 S&W would have that much power.
He called the governor and complained about the vest and the plate not being able to stop the bullet. The governor didn't like the call one little bit.
Next thing I know reloading Manuals and most 40 S&W factory ammo have reduced loads. Then all this bad rep started about the 40 S&W.
Makes me wonder if the swamp or government didn't like the 40, or any other gun or pistol that could not be stopped by a bulletproof vest at that time. So they maybe they tried to kill the 40? Who knows what they did.
Great info Cookie.!! I only own one .40 cal and it’s a Springfield.. but good to know.. thanks 👍🏻
Help your favorite channels, let the ad play to the end whether you have seen it before or not.
ShinyPartsUp - You can say that. We video posters can't say that. Better yet, take opportunities to let advertisers know that our buying habits are affected by TH-cam ads. That's what they really want to see... Best to ya, FC Steve
This is why glock states never run reloads in their handguns. It voids your warranty.
Thank you for that info
Hello Willie - How ya doin'? FC Steve
G43 x 9 mm just blew apart on me sad day
Thank you your the best !! I have 2 40 cal glocks, i have a wolf barrel in my 23. But when i use it the slide will fall off the gun at times if you allow the muzzle to be pointed at the ground. It doesnt happen with the Glock barrel, but need to have wolf look at it to see why its contacting the stabbs?? Thanks again for watching out for your fellow shooter!!! I do reload for this cartridge, but keep them on the low side of the pressure curve.
dowdawg - Very wise advice - our reloads are good practice, range and recreational ammo. Your Wolf barrel is out of spec and unacceptable. Definitely, Wolf will want that barrel back - if you bought it from Midway - they'll exchange it for you post haste. Or the factory certainly will as well. Always good to year from ya, bro.. FC Steve
Ok ill do just that and send it back..
This sounds a lot like the old problem with 38 Super ( Load to USPSA "Major") in a 1911a1 ! ! !
I’ve shot a few .40 caliber handguns, but do not own one and don’t want one, so this is sort of news for me. I’m surprised that warning is not on the 10mm. Now there is a round that is well known for bulged and cracked cases in the higher pressure loads. I’ve seen it in my own G20 and I do not reload for any of my Glocks, and I have a few. All factory loads. I’ve also never felt the need for an aftermarket Glock barrel. You have some older videos on this subject that you might want to link to in the description of this video. They are well worth watching again.
Good to re-emphasize to potential problem!
Great info, thanks FC!
Thanks for this. I feel like I inspired this video with my Glock 19 Gen4 question on your Patreon page, so thanks!
I received my aftermarket Glock 19 barrel and compared it to the stock one with my calipers. It's advertised as having full case support, and is identical to the factory Glock barrel in that way. The one difference being that the aftermarket barrels chamber is .0025" tighter, but they both cover the full length of the case exactly the same.
Thanks again LC.
My EDC Glock has an aftermarket barrel for just this slight but meaningful risk. Probably time to check my .40S&W P226 and see how that is. Interesting to see if it is the case (pun intended) in the Sig.
ShinyPartsUp - The Sig226 has a fully supported chamber, but yes, you need to check that. Plus, it doesn't jam either. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Where's the Kaboom!? There was supposed to be a Glock shattering Kaboom!
Marvin the Martian is an underated character.
Is the 40 brass and 10mm brass the same thickness? I bought a Lonewolf barrel for my 10mm but it doesn't have any more support then the factory barrel.
2671996619fedcba 10mm brass has a considerably thicker web than the 40, that's why it was the basis for the 357sig reformed and cut to correct length.
2671996619fedcba - The 40 cal came about by shortening the 10mm case. If you take fired brass from your Glock barrel and your LW barrel and measure the head web areas of both, the comparisons will tell you definitely whether your LW barrel has the web support. If you don't get that, that is the primary reason we buy those barrels in the first place (the second reason is to get the cut rifling for shooting cast bullets). A call to the factory would be in order if the case support is not there. Best to ya, FC Steve
2671996619fedcba I can definitely tell you that your lone wolf barrel has more chamber support than your factory glock barrel.
Todd Duncan that's weird, because the case head support on both my factory model 40 barrel and my LW barrel have identical feedramp measurements and support the case to the same depth, only difference between the two barrels besides the type of rifling is the LW barrel has a chamber cut to slightly tighter specs, but casehead and feedramp support are identical on mine.
jimhans1 it’s also why the 10mm has a higher SAAMI pressure of 37,500 compared to 35,000 for .40sw
Thank you FC Steve for explaining this very important fact concerning the .40 S&W and unsupported chambers; this can be seen as an accident just waiting to occur if improper loading or lower quality brass is used for this caliber..I have tried to explain this to a friend of mine who wants me to load him some.40S&W rounds for his Glock Now I can just show him this very well explained video and he should understand.
Hey Steve, just another reason not to buy a Glock ! :-)
Glad were still seeing this on TH-cam !
Nick J - This is not a reloading video so it should be OK...And I've taken down my reloading videos...Best to ya, FC Steve
Hi FC very interesting find. I just bought a Glock 10mm and want to shoot Underwood
ammunition which is some hot ammo. After watching your video I am wondering if I
should buy a safer barrel for it? Can you recommend a safe after market barrel? My
Glock barrel is 6 inches long. Thanks!
Old comment but I'll reply anyway as I have the same gun that I believe you have, a Glock model 40 MOS. As far as I can tell it has full case head support, definitely more than the Glocks of old. I have fired a fairly steady diet of warm to hot loads in mine with no issues as of yet. It's seen several boxes of Underwood as well as a few hundred rounds of my handload which is a 180gr polycoated hard cast (.401) on top of 7.5 grains of power pistol. I do not have a chronograph but judging by the recoil this should be an 1100+ fps load. I've seen no pressure signs and no case failures of any kind. That being said, the brass does take noticeably more effort to resize than does the brass fired out of my Ruger 1911 in 10mm.
Also issue with Beretta 96.
There is also a warning about the 40 Smith & Wesson used in Glocks not to reload in Lee modern reloading 2nd edition manual printed 2011
mr hanburger - Thanks for posting that... the 40 cal Glock drew all the infamous attention to itself for sure. Best to ya, FC Steve
Great video, thanks for the heads up.
Got a kick out of hearing the word "behoove" haven't heard that since 1stSgt would give us classes in bootcamp
bower31 - Thanks for commenting. It's a perfectly good word...and useful...I think I'll use it more often. Best to ya, FC Steve
I had a Glock 41 and Glock 19 (gen 2) that both had the case head rupture on reloads. No damage to the guns. I lost a .45 acp magazine on the 41 and had to dig some brass out of my nose with the 19.
Where is everybody?? Can't find you folks on youtube??
.40 S&W still has more energy foot lbs than both 9×19 and .45 ACP and is tied for effectiveness with .357 Magnum according to the 17 year study on shootings examined in the book Street Stoppers... Just a thought .40 S&W is a great cartridge along with the beast that is 10mm, however not a good cartridge for reloading near max charges.
This is old info. As noted also in Lee 2nd edition. Lee bulge buster does NOT fix the problem.
TheRotorhound - Yes, it is old info to those who know. Does not hurt to point out what Lyman is warning about to get shooters to pause and consider. There are still a lot of shooters who listen to those Glock owners who say they have shot thousands of reloads through their Glock factory barrels with no problems because they make sure they clean the barrels of fouling to prevent the kabooms and use the bulge busters. This may become moot as some are reporting the newer Glocks having more case support and tighter chambers, but I can't really check that as Gen 4s and 5s are not available in CA. Best to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC As far as I know it is the .40 case that is the one to avoid with Glocks. Also those that think the Lee bulge buster can fix the problem are mistaken. Be safe out there when reloading.
I replaced all my Glock barrels with aftermarket match barrels!
Me too, it makes the price of each gun goes up by $100 and you have an extra barrel you can't use.
A lot of guys use the MAX as a starting point for their handloads. Thanks for the reminder.
Glock 40sw and Smith and Wesson sd40 and sd40ve which gets rarely mentioned in these types of of videos.
My Glock's now pretty much stay in my pistol safe since i reload now. i refuse to buy an aftermarket barrels for them. i dumped enough of money in each pistol already. if someone wants to shoot " a glock " i just buy some steel cased tula junk so they can have some fun. with all the new pistols now and glocks not fixing this issue it's just stupid cause i would never want to see anyone get hurt.....when i'm at my range picking up brass i don't even take the cases that smile at me..............
MegaBait56 - Hmmm, I'm finding that I'm doing the same thing...I like to shoot my cast bullet reloads in my aftermarket barrels in my Glocks, but the POI changes - the factory barrel is on POA-POI. But I only shoot factory white box with my factory barrels at added expense of course. Net effect, I don't shoot my Glocks very often - only when I bring new shooters to the range, and then I give them a box of white box to shoot. Sure it costs me, but they're friends. Best to ya, FC Steve
Steve, i changed the sights, trigger bar on the Glocks that enough of money for me. to spend more money for a barrel that's just crazy. besides i never liked the grip angle on them. i'm into M&P's now cause Jmo. i like the grip angle way better S.S. slide, bbl. mag.'g, good 3 dot sights but i just drop in a Apex trigger kit and they are great semi's then. never any issues with M&P's either. But i'm a wheel gun guy, my son who's into the semi's has them too. plus i always wonder why Glock didn't support the case like most barrels years ago when i bought my first one. now i know why they are made this way but i still think by now they should have come up with barrel or at least offer an option when you buy them? ya can't even say anything bad about them cause the fan boys go crazy. lol. it's nice now that i reload cause i can make up ammo for any cal. i want but, even with the steel case junk the Glocks cycle fine and there older pistols so i really don't worry about them. thanks for showing how to reload it's been fun so far although i'm still slow and careful loading. have a great weekend :)
That's why I don't like Glocks
You ought to do another video while you got Lyman on the phone and have them tell you all the guns that could cause this.
But wait...aren’t glocks perfect?! I mean it says it right there on the box!
glock perfectiion. just replace the barrel, plastic sights, mushy trigger, weird grip angle and have a gun twice the price of other plastic wonders.
brighter - That certainly is a practical way to look at it...!! Best to ya, FC Steve
FC: I used to feel safe in reloading range pick-up brass in .40 S&W even if it had been originally fired in Glocks. I had believed that the full length resizing and the fully supported chambers in my Sig P239, P226 and P229 barrels would keep me safe. Wrong! I blew the extractor out of my 226 Elite with a kaboom. My handloads were hot, but not excessive. The reloads were not double charged and were adequately crimped.
.
Fortunately, the extractor loss was the only damage, and the Sig is repaired and back in service. I have since discarded all of my .40 S&W reloads that I could not be certain were originally (and only) fired in my Sigs. I no longer pick-up any range brass in semi-auto pistol calibers for fear of getting another “Glocked” case. The Glock in .40S&W is a mistake.
TXARmory - Thanks for posting - your experiences can only help the many others you work with. I used to avoid all brass shot from Glock Gen 2s and 3s (the primer signature as we know). Now, I do pick up the plentiful 9 and 45 if it looks good, undamaged, not blown out or smiled. But on thinking about this, 40 cal brass is not seen anywhere as much as it used to be seen. I'll look closer, but your experience is certainly thought provoking. Best to ya, FC Steve
This has been a known fact about ALL Glock 40 10mm and all unsupported chamber 40 cal autos for literally decades.
Yeah. But Glock has made minor adjustments on feed ramp / chamber over the years
A VR - I'm glad that others have noticed this. Based on small sample sizes, this seems to be what is happening and no announcements from Glock, of course. Best to ya, FC Steve
Lizard - OK to that...but you should have seen the flak that videos on that generated 4-5 years ago. It was Glock bashing when it wasn't Glock bashing. Best to ya, FC Steve
.40 Stupid & Worthless was a mistake to ever chamber in the Glock 22/23. The case is far too thin for the high and sustained pressure created at the thin case web in an unsupported chamber. Of all the blown up guns I’ve heard about, the vast majority are reloads shot in factory stock barrel Glocks in .40 caliber. There is no margin of error in seating bullets too deep, too much crimp, too much powder, too long cases, lead bullet reloads, etc. Pressures are too high, the cases too thin, the barrels, not providing support. Bad, bad, bad, bad, bad.
What .40 cal needs it to drop to the pressures of .45ACP +P, or increase to the brass density and similar reduced case capacity of .45 super. You will still get smileys and blowouts in poorly designed unsupported chambers but at least there will be a little more margin or error and safety when newbies attempt to reload for the .40 or crappy factory ammo is used.
357 sig brass is NOT the same as .40s&w
Hey man !!! - Thanks for that - I have a Sig229 40 cal that has the 357 Sig barrel - takes the same magazine (of course). I didn't do any research, but the case of the 357 Sig looked to me like a necked down 40. Of course, now I realize that it could have been on a shortened 10mm case. Shooting 125 grain 357 screamers out of that Sig229 is a project I haven't gone to yet...but it's there in my video idea cue that has come up but gets reburied. Best to ya, FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC The parent case is a .40 S&W although it uses slightly thicker case walls.
Logan Barnette negative the parent case is a 10mm
If you necked a 40 it is shorter then a 357 sig. it’s a cut down then necked 10mm
That’s how you get the thicker wall and slightly longer case.
Sold all my .40s. Important message. Thank you. 👍
It's not the .40SW, it's the GLOCK .40SW that's the problem. Or any unsupported .40SW which is only Glock as far as I know.
This is part of the reason why I don’t own a 40.
The parent case is 10mm...
"Perfection.™"
Joshua Noble - I've found it difficult to accept the claim of Glock Perfection when there is a Gen 5 just introduced. If Gen 1s were perfection, no changes are necessary as perfection is complete onto itself. You don't change perfection....you just hang onto it. Best to ya, FC Steve
sweetbeast good chow ol bouy snackeyddooo
I stopped reloading 40 S&W brass, but when I did load it .... I used a Lee Bulge Buster on the brass prior to loading.
roostershooter76 - There's a good reason you stopped loading that 40 cal brass, and you realized it. The use of the Lee Bulge Buster is predicated on the concept that the bulge is being "corrected". However, the brass has been strained in firing and is being strained again in the "correction". That working of the brass is the problem - if that exact smile area lines up again with the unsupported spot in the chamber enough times, the brass has to fail - it's a crapshoot. Rifle shooters seeing that kind of strained brass at the case head are horrified. And all those comments of shooting thousands of reloads through factory Glock barrels with no problems as if the practice was safe - really have to be understood for what it is. We can like the Glock - but we cannot deny the shortcomings of unsupported chambers - and they are easy to check out. A lot of shooters seeing that go out and buy aftermarket barrels. Thankfully, I don't see those Glock smiles as much, but interestingly, I also don't see much 40 cal brass lying around like I used to see. Good shootin' to ya, FC Steve
Just another reason I won't own a Glock
allthings bullets85 - Lest we not bash Glocks - with factory JHP ammo, the Glock is a very good pistol. Best to ya, FC Steve
Glock is the AK-47 of pistols.
I wouldn’t load .40 at first, just .357 Sig. I do now, though. I’ve loaded and shot thousands since then with no problem. I don’t use hot loads. I won’t use “smiley” cases, either.
5Rounds Rapid - Thanks for posting...avoidance of smiley 40 cal brass is a sign of wisdom that is now shared by many. A supported chamber goes a long way towards shooting reloads with confidence. Best to ya, bro.. FC Steve
FortuneCookie45LC Thanks. I avoid bad brass in any caliber. I also load .40 to maximum OAL. The Lyman manual has it shorter.
.40s&w has always been glocks’ imperfection.
So you really can't do reloading videos anymore? Sad time we live in.
.40 is one caliber I will not own.
edit: You are my first Patreon creator!
One of the reason's I just love 9 mm.. cheap powerfull and totally realiable.
1998 called... they want there 40 kaboom facts back.
Dude.. are you new?
Paul d *their
No, FC is extremely experienced... Reloading safety is always relevant no matter what. A lot of new reloaders come here for info and to learn new techniques. Your attitude makes one wonder if YOU are new. When you reload long enough, you see others have KBs and realize safety is paramount.
Paul d ... Are you asking 45LC if he is new to shooting?
Hey LeBron, ever play basketball?
With all the police trade in 40s coming on the market, this is still relevant to the reloading conversation.
Paul d - I always do a search on topics before I do them as there is no need to repeat a topic unless there is some new information to present - or present in a different perspective - so you could say that I am, in fact, new. . Don't know about 1998 - so I just did a search on YT and also on internet on 1998 and found a lot of neat stuff, even great songs. But nothing about KBs... Perhaps 1998 is on some forum somewhere, my guess. I don't go on forums very often as there's too much arguing and disrespect found. You might disagree on that though. Hopefully, 1998 might do a video to help others that like the video format. Best to ya, FC Steve
Mr. Bill - That's a great point... I'll buy the 9s and 45s in a snap shot, but pass on the 40s... Have a great day, FC Steve