Hello all! In a High End System, say $10k and up, these are the guidelines I use as to where I spent my money on my systems! Of course these rules do not apply to all systems but it's my general rule and what has worked out well for me. Let me know where you spent the most within your system! See some recommended HiFi buys and the streamer I talk about here: www.stevehuffphoto.com/hifi-recommendation-and-super-buys/
I marvel at the enthusiasts who budget their systems all at once. What’s that even like? Over here in Scrimp ‘N Saveland, we purchase in controlled bursts; therefore total system costs are esoteric and tangential
I’d say at least 30-40% on room treatments. Hard lesson learned after 40 years in high end. Your room is part of your system and the most important factor determining the sound. Most of the time you’re listening to your room (room resonance, slap echo, flutter, etc) rather than your speakers and electronics.
I wish highend audio manufacturers would give you an option to lease. This would allow many of us to go ahead and get 10k+ system and the manufactures would sell their off lease equipment at a discount to others and when my lease ends i can again lease the latest stuff. Everyone is happy and manufactures are making more. Really the price of highend audio is equal to leasing new car and every 3yrs you want a new one. Any thoughts on why they wouldnt think about leasing their equipment.
I'm not a McIntosh guy, but leasing would work best with McIntosh. The low depreciation rate would keep the payments reasonable, since with a lease you are paying only for the depreciation instead of the whole item.
Doing that with front-end components shipped in there protective boxes might work well but I know from my experience speakers are a gamble no matter how much they're protected.🤔🙄 The big heavy ones I refer to.
I just calculated my system out of curiosity. I've built it over the last 10 years. It's all tube / all analog now though it has gone through stages. Several of the pieces were purchased used or renovated. It turned out like this (rounded numbers): 15% Turntable/Cartridge, 20% Preamps, 20% Amps, 35% Speakers, and 10% Cables. It was less than $10K total and I'm in music heaven. Of course I've spent double that on records over the course of my lifetime!
I enjoyed your blog but I would question the math, a $6k speaker in a $10k budget would not leave much left for the source, amplification, and cables etc. Design of speakers have moved on significantly so you can get away with a cheaper speaker and enjoy a better balanced system. I also enjoyed your review of the Kinky Studio amp, and will definitely consider this as a replacement for my old Rotel amp. I also like the look of the AVM A30.3 integrated amp, have you reviewed it? Best regards Stephen
My budgeting rationale is 30% on source, 30% on amp, 30% on speakers and 10% on cables and passive conditioner. IMHO system synergy is limited by its weakest link. My main system is $50K and the source is 30% of that, and I'm contemplating a source upgrade before anything else. Many times I have heard a great source/amp combo elevate a relatively pedestrian speaker's performance envelope, not so much the other way around. Just my 2 cents.
There are many people out there who have already found the best speaker for their taste, then they should upgrade the amp. If the amp then ends up costing twice as much as the speaker that's not a problem because a more expensive speaker might not sound better to their taste. I own a JBL 4425 studio monitor and this thing IMO is the best speaker ever build. I owned Spendor, Roksan Darius, Apertura and Wilson W&P, but the little JBL is what I stick with for over 20 years now. I used FM Acoustics and Cello both about 10x the price of the speaker, no problem as long as the speaker benefits from the rising quality of the amp
I have always heard that speakers should be the bulk of the budget. A few years ago I pulled the trigger on a pair of Klipsch La Scala II speakers and have since been upgrading the electronic going into them. The better the electronics, the better they sound.
I spent 50% on my speakers, 30% on amplification (pre-power) and 20% on various sources. I don't see the sense in spending more on digital sources because streamers and DAC technology keeps improving.
By ignoring the importance of your source and DAC, you will never hear the true potential of your speakers. So, you spent 50% of the budget on your speakers to only hear just a fraction of what they are capable of.
@@andru2625 but then if your choice of speakers can't be pushed by your lesser priced amp....then none of the rest of it (not even the speakers) matter.
@@andru2625 A DAC for about 200 USD can outperform just about anything released 10 years ago for much more. Something like SMSL DO100 will kick most DACs butt.
The most important audio components in a Hi Fi system are the source components. The quality of the musical signal coming out of this first component defines the ultimate ability of any system. Every other audio component in the system (for example : Cables, Preamp, Power Amp, speaker wire and Speakers) merely passes on this signal with greater or less accuracy. None can enhance or improve it. Many people believe that the loudspeaker is the most important link in the hi fi chain.. Intuitively,. this makes sense because it is where the sound comes from. And true enough, if you change to a nicer pair of speakers, a very different sound will come forth, but it will not be an improved sound from the source.
No, it will be an improved sound to your ears..and if your SPEAKERS are not accurate, then it is irrelevant how pure the original signal is because they are Not capable sonically to reproduce them accurately..
From a measurement point ..the vertical and horizontal off axis and spectral decay are noticeable to the human ear in some regards depending how off they are..But from a sonic point of view from your ears,which everyone is different in what frequencies they hear and enjoy..Again it's all vital in the audio chain that everyone is right for you. Input source, amplification and Speakers all play a Vital part in what you hear...
@@MuscleBN that can't be true. If your input source is 1% of the music, you can put the best loudspeakers in the world at the end of that, and at best you can only guild that 1%.
I’ve been putting together audio systems for over 50 years. It’s a long time since I put together a 10k system but I do know I would not lash out 60% on a pair of speakers. Somewhere else someone commented garbage in, garbage out. That is exactly right. How can you ever hear what decent speakers can do while streaming off an average source such as Spotify when you could be using Roon. I can think of a number of relatively inexpensive speakers that sound truly amazing when driven by great front end equipment through excellent amplification. I do agree with your comments on cables etc. I too use Audioquest Niagara. Invest big bucks up front, keep those items and upgrade accordingly along the audio path.
Hmm, the system behind you has a pair of $20k speakers driven by $22,000 of pre/power amp combo. Looks fine to me. I'm just curious about your advice to 'invest the most on your speakers' though? Why give that advice if you don't adhere to it yourself?
If you spend all of your Budget on Speakers~ obviously you're going to cheap out on other components. He has a pair of 20k speakers which are correctly matched. Distribution is the key.
@@drivelogic3841 exactly, spend roughly the same amount on speakers as you do on your amplifier - not 'invest the most on your speakers' after all then.
I've noticed that you usually prefer dual-band and small-volume speakers. 6.5 "bass is not enough for this room. I don't think it has low bass. I would recommend trying two-band but column systems. I think you'll be surprised at what is hidden in your system. (Living voice - great speakers )
1. The speakers i like 2. Amp, around the speakers price, but not more. 3. Preamp/ DAC around the same price as the Amp, but not more. So i bought active All-in-One speakers from KEF.
Wondering if you think budget speakers tend to scale up easier with higher end amplification rather than high end speakers being able to make a budget amp sound better? I’m thinking get your amplifier right and then start auditioning speakers to match to your taste?
Actually, the first step is picking out properly sized speakers for your listening room. Next buy an amp that matches the speakers. Tip: If you buy efficient 8 ohm speakers, you can go with a lower wattage amplifier. Because of that, you might even be able to use a tube amp for silky smooth vocals. However, if the music you like needs bass punch, use a solid state amp instead.
Here is my current best 12k Euro system: CD Transport - Jay's Audio CDT2 Mk3, Dac & preamp - Holo Audio Spring 3 Level 2, Power Amp - T+A A 200, Loudspeakers - QAcoustics Concept 50.
The first audiophile I met had just the opposite philosophy: he said that the first part of the audio chain to the source used is the most important, then the second, etc. In fact the speakers were the cheapest part of his system, and it was unbelievable what those sub-1500$ speakers produced.
Here i see a lot of different answers of most of us regarding what to give more priority . Well,speakers we al agree,but then.. I think its our own experience through the years what,s most important to you Don,t forget to count the listing room about what is important as well,some need a serious treatment first to let the speaker show what they are capable of And my second place is for sure amplification in this item
I got into hifi in the 90’s and then it was all about the source (typically a turntable) the recommended breakdown was something like 40-50% source, 20-30% amplifier 20-30% speakers, 10%cables, stands etc.
I think $6,000 on speakers with a 10K budget is way too much. Typically, higher-end speakers are designed to let you hear everything that's going on in your system.... revealing/resolving. Speakers that expensive will only highlight the deficiencies of the rest of your system and will create an unenjoyable and fatiguing listening experience. I do agree that speakers should be on the larger side of the budget but, I'd say no more than $4,000 max with a 10K budget.
I’m in the process of upgrading my system , first was the Kef LS50 metas ( I have a medium size room ) and S2 stands filled with sand with Isoacoustics AudioBastion on all spikes ( made quite a huge diff ), then I changed all spkr and rca wires to silver Xangsane wires ( much better n cheaper than my Van Del Hul ) , second was Denafrips Pontus with MBPS USB cable. My next will be the class A SET Willsenton R800i with Mogami XLR , then maybe a Rel sub or Kef KC62. Maybe an Iris DDC with Jays Audio I2S at the end. Room treatment I find can be pretty cheap. , a carpet , a thick velvet cover for TV and coffee table , found some wallpaper that was 3D , pockmarked , irregular surface and had thickness ( looks like white plaster but feels a bit soft n rubberized ) works to great effect. By yr end it wld be complete. Enjoying the journey along the way.
It was a huge eye opener once I updated my speakers. I did amp 1st turntable 2nd speakers last.mainly because they where hand me down ADS L810. I now love My Zu audio speakers!
I keep thinking that the amp and dac are the most important. The speakers need to be descent, but thats all. This is with a price compromised system. Cheers.
I disagree. Yes, begin with the speakers, plus the amps. They should be seen as a pair, and thus the budget should be calculated accordingly. For instance, if you like horn speakers, you could pair those with tube amps. Or in my setup, I have paired LRS speakers with a big amp to supply enough amps to let them sign. Then you spend the rest on your source components, digital or analog.
You have a TV where you stream music, a receiver and an amplifier. Where do you place the DAC is this type of system to get the most out of the signal coming from you TV into your receiver and on to the amplifier. I have notice that in some receivers the streaming from the TV is horrible coming from the amps. However, when I use the bluetooth option of the receiver the sound is infinitely better. How do you find information about the DACs that already exists in your TV and receivers so you know you are buying a better DAC. Thanks.
It's almost impossible to audition loudspeakers when audio retailers are mostly gone. Even if they are close to your home they probably have limited choices. It's really a crap shoot these days. I bought JBL's based upon my past experience with them. I've bought several other brands like ZU Audio, KEF, Klipsch, etc. But JBL now owned by the largest audio company in the world Samsung still has a great reputation. Look at how Kendrick Sound creates their own JBL versions around their platform.
Ok new subscriber and a newbie, I have a limited budget of $10K, so what would you suggest(speakers, integrated dac, subwoofer etc..) for me to buy? I know this is broad question given the myriad brands to choose from, but I am considering B &W 702 but not sure which integrated amp to pair it with. I’ve been to 3 different hifi stores in my area, and they all have differing & conflicting suggestion. Any input is greatly appreciated. TIA.
"...For example, my main system sounds amazing with my $20k speakers fed by a $9k DAC and powered by a $2400 integrated amplifier..." Are they Fleetwood Deville speakers, Chord Dave Dac and the Integrated amp.? Which Int. amp. do you have for that combination and price? Thank you.
Source is more important than anything else in the chain. Divvy up your budget however you see fit, but focus on the source first. A shitty source out of great speakers is going to sound awesome (ly shitty.)
I would like to back up a little bit. I think one should not start allocating a budget until you made a selection of the speaker first. Then budget sources, amplification, and cables after. I have found that one needs to consider the system as a balance of the whole, not so much what percentage of funds should be allocated where. Especially these days, where speaker technology has improved so much. An (Adjusted for inflation.) $4,500 pair can do a lot more than they could 40 years ago. I feel that should be taken into account now days, and the 60% split may no longer be the best way to go. Just IMHO, but on a $10K system, I would advise against going with a $6,000 model, if one likes the sound of a $4500.00 pair just as well. Then look to invest the balance into a better source. I cannot begin to tell you how many gimped systems I have listened to over the years, by friends who invested a lot into their speakers, but not enough towards the source or amps. Resulting in something that faithfully reproduces that etched sound of a sub par digital front end, or electronic sheen from an equally less than capable integrated.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but I believe that 90% of the people with 10k to built a new system, know this stuff already. Only a few start with a 10k system. Not to mention some of them are not that much into music, especially tech and the audiophile journey, in general. They're doing it for other reasons.
Ironic he doesn't mention used. Hifi speakers have changed a bit over the years. Although you can find a five year old set at 40% off because someone moved up. Just bought a 14k speaker for 5k. Not sure what to do with the rest of the system though 🤣😆🙂
Speakers - Yes Yes! Ivor Tiefenbrun is responsible for so much misinformation in advertising his LP12! Speakers have huge mechanical problems to overcome, and to get a 'match' in quality vs speakers and other components it simply costs a lot more. Overcoming the conversions twixt mechanical to electrical is problematic and is expensive! You also have a number of other costs associated with speakers; shipping, storage, cabinetry.... This is also why a decent turntable is also comparatively expensive. So many folks in the 70s-80s ended up with a fully decked LP12 playing into a polished cigar box with a couple of 10c drivers espousing the garbage in/out 'revelation'!
6k on speakers is disproportional to the 10k budget. A balanced system is more important so I would suggest 3.5k-4.5k on speakers which gives a lot more wiggle room for things like turntable/preamp/cartridge, preamp/power amp, CD player/ DAC and cables. Better quality components have the best chance of achieving near maximum quality from the speakers. If an upgrade is viable years down the track, you only need to replace the speakers rather than each component in turn to achieve a better system.
nope if you spend the most on the amplifier and dac they will have better things going into speakers so you won't get garbage in and garbage out. Most higher end speakers will sound like crap because of the distortion they are getting fed becasue they are more resolving.
Flip one and two and I'm on board. Speakers cannot IMPROVE upon anything. Period. They can ALTER the sound. But not IMPROVE the sound. They can however, tell you how crappy the ancillary gear is.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast Do you think a speaker can IMPROVE a signal it's being sent? It can't. In fact, there is no single piece of gear in the recording or playback chain that screws up the waveform like speakers do. Don't believe me? Just look at ANY speakers step response. HORRIBLE.
Basically I agree BUT at the same time if you have a 6K speaker with a 2-3K amp, you will get only a fraction of its performance. You will think that you have a mediocre speaker because your amp can not drive it to its full potential.
Speakers can only make a sound with the signal they are given. Give them a poor signal and it doesn’t matter how much you spent on them, they won’t make a poor signal better.
![ILLSLICK - KILLSHOT REMIX [FULL VERSION]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RIK8RrqIAzE/mqdefault.jpg)
Hello all! In a High End System, say $10k and up, these are the guidelines I use as to where I spent my money on my systems! Of course these rules do not apply to all systems but it's my general rule and what has worked out well for me. Let me know where you spent the most within your system! See some recommended HiFi buys and the streamer I talk about here: www.stevehuffphoto.com/hifi-recommendation-and-super-buys/
Garbage in garbage out is the old hifi motto,makes sense to me.
I marvel at the enthusiasts who budget their systems all at once. What’s that even like? Over here in Scrimp ‘N Saveland, we purchase in controlled bursts; therefore total system costs are esoteric and tangential
I’d say at least 30-40% on room treatments. Hard lesson learned after 40 years in high end. Your room is part of your system and the most important factor determining the sound. Most of the time you’re listening to your room (room resonance, slap echo, flutter, etc) rather than your speakers and electronics.
Yes, this is what I'm learning now as well
I wish highend audio manufacturers would give you an option to lease. This would allow many of us to go ahead and get 10k+ system and the manufactures would sell their off lease equipment at a discount to others and when my lease ends i can again lease the latest stuff. Everyone is happy and manufactures are making more. Really the price of highend audio is equal to leasing new car and every 3yrs you want a new one. Any thoughts on why they wouldnt think about leasing their equipment.
There is a biz opportunity here fyi
I'm not a McIntosh guy, but leasing would work best with McIntosh. The low depreciation rate would keep the payments reasonable, since with a lease you are paying only for the depreciation instead of the whole item.
That is a very interesting model - its either flawed or you are a genius - suspect the latter!
Perhaps someone tried this before and went bankrupt which is why no one does it now? One large cost you would need to consider is repairs.
Doing that with front-end components shipped in there protective boxes might work well but I know from my experience speakers are a gamble no matter how much they're protected.🤔🙄 The big heavy ones I refer to.
I just calculated my system out of curiosity. I've built it over the last 10 years. It's all tube / all analog now though it has gone through stages. Several of the pieces were purchased used or renovated. It turned out like this (rounded numbers): 15% Turntable/Cartridge, 20% Preamps, 20% Amps, 35% Speakers, and 10% Cables. It was less than $10K total and I'm in music heaven. Of course I've spent double that on records over the course of my lifetime!
I enjoyed your blog but I would question the math, a $6k speaker in a $10k budget would not leave much left for the source, amplification, and cables etc. Design of speakers have moved on significantly so you can get away with a cheaper speaker and enjoy a better balanced system. I also enjoyed your review of the Kinky Studio amp, and will definitely consider this as a replacement for my old Rotel amp. I also like the look of the AVM A30.3 integrated amp, have you reviewed it? Best regards Stephen
My budgeting rationale is 30% on source, 30% on amp, 30% on speakers and 10% on cables and passive conditioner. IMHO system synergy is limited by its weakest link. My main system is $50K and the source is 30% of that, and I'm contemplating a source upgrade before anything else. Many times I have heard a great source/amp combo elevate a relatively pedestrian speaker's performance envelope, not so much the other way around. Just my 2 cents.
Put at least 40% into the speakers.
It's all about synergy with room and gear, and what kind of sound you like.
There are many people out there who have already found the best speaker for their taste, then they should upgrade the amp. If the amp then ends up costing twice as much as the speaker that's not a problem because a more expensive speaker might not sound better to their taste. I own a JBL 4425 studio monitor and this thing IMO is the best speaker ever build. I owned Spendor, Roksan Darius, Apertura and Wilson W&P, but the little JBL is what I stick with for over 20 years now. I used FM Acoustics and Cello both about 10x the price of the speaker, no problem as long as the speaker benefits from the rising quality of the amp
You keep buying poor performing electronics. Buy better and cheaper, you will be happy.
I have always heard that speakers should be the bulk of the budget. A few years ago I pulled the trigger on a pair of Klipsch La Scala II speakers and have since been upgrading the electronic going into them. The better the electronics, the better they sound.
Noice ! Love them , my first true hifi experience was Klipschorns I was like 18
La Scalas are nice. Had a pair of Fortes years ago. They were very nice!
I spent 50% on my speakers, 30% on amplification (pre-power) and 20% on various sources. I don't see the sense in spending more on digital sources because streamers and DAC technology keeps improving.
By ignoring the importance of your source and DAC, you will never hear the true potential of your speakers. So, you spent 50% of the budget on your speakers to only hear just a fraction of what they are capable of.
@@andru2625 but then if your choice of speakers can't be pushed by your lesser priced amp....then none of the rest of it (not even the speakers) matter.
@@andru2625 A DAC for about 200 USD can outperform just about anything released 10 years ago for much more. Something like SMSL DO100 will kick most DACs butt.
The most important audio components in a Hi Fi system are the source components. The quality of the musical signal coming out of this first component defines the ultimate ability of any system. Every other audio component in the system (for example : Cables, Preamp, Power Amp, speaker wire and Speakers) merely passes on this signal with greater or less accuracy. None can enhance or improve it.
Many people believe that the loudspeaker is the most important link in the hi fi chain.. Intuitively,. this makes sense because it is where the sound comes from. And true enough, if you change to a nicer pair of speakers, a very different sound will come forth, but it will not be an improved sound from the source.
Well said.
No, it will be an improved sound to your ears..and if your SPEAKERS are not accurate, then it is irrelevant how pure the original signal is because they are Not capable sonically to reproduce them accurately..
'accurate' ? What does that mean ?
From a measurement point ..the vertical and horizontal off axis and spectral decay are noticeable to the human ear in some regards depending how off they are..But from a sonic point of view from your ears,which everyone is different in what frequencies they hear and enjoy..Again it's all vital in the audio chain that everyone is right for you. Input source, amplification and Speakers all play a Vital part in what you hear...
@@MuscleBN that can't be true. If your input source is 1% of the music, you can put the best loudspeakers in the world at the end of that, and at best you can only guild that 1%.
Man for me the power amp is second for sure. How well is the amp matched to the speaker? Can it control the woofers? Can it deliver the current?
I also was surprised at Huff’s priority and I agree with you
I’ve been putting together audio systems for over 50 years. It’s a long time since I put together a 10k system but I do know I would not lash out 60% on a pair of speakers. Somewhere else someone commented garbage in, garbage out. That is exactly right. How can you ever hear what decent speakers can do while streaming off an average source such as Spotify when you could be using Roon. I can think of a number of relatively inexpensive speakers that sound truly amazing when driven by great front end equipment through excellent amplification. I do agree with your comments on cables etc. I too use Audioquest Niagara. Invest big bucks up front, keep those items and upgrade accordingly along the audio path.
You don't just choose a speaker. You choose a speaker-amp system suited to your room.
Hmm, the system behind you has a pair of $20k speakers driven by $22,000 of pre/power amp combo. Looks fine to me. I'm just curious about your advice to 'invest the most on your speakers' though? Why give that advice if you don't adhere to it yourself?
Well said.
If you spend all of your Budget on Speakers~ obviously you're going to cheap out on other components.
He has a pair of 20k speakers which are correctly matched.
Distribution is the key.
@@drivelogic3841 exactly, spend roughly the same amount on speakers as you do on your amplifier - not 'invest the most on your speakers' after all then.
I've noticed that you usually prefer dual-band and small-volume speakers. 6.5 "bass is not enough for this room. I don't think it has low bass. I would recommend trying two-band but column systems. I think you'll be surprised at what is hidden in your system. (Living voice - great speakers )
Speakers are certainly the most important piece of a stereo or surround system.
I do almost exactly the same. The source and amp are just as significant as the output.
1. The speakers i like
2. Amp, around the speakers price, but not more.
3. Preamp/ DAC around the same price as the Amp, but not more.
So i bought active All-in-One speakers from KEF.
I agree, speakers - source - sub - amp - cables for future refinement.
Wondering if you think budget speakers tend to scale up easier with higher end amplification rather than high end speakers being able to make a budget amp sound better? I’m thinking get your amplifier right and then start auditioning speakers to match to your taste?
Actually, the first step is picking out properly sized speakers for your listening room. Next buy an amp that matches the speakers. Tip: If you buy efficient 8 ohm speakers, you can go with a lower wattage amplifier. Because of that, you might even be able to use a tube amp for silky smooth vocals. However, if the music you like needs bass punch, use a solid state amp instead.
Those Fleetwood Deville’s look fantastic in your space.
Here is my current best 12k Euro system: CD Transport - Jay's Audio CDT2 Mk3, Dac & preamp - Holo Audio Spring 3 Level 2, Power Amp - T+A A 200, Loudspeakers - QAcoustics Concept 50.
It is my opinion that most of the funds should be spent on amps and speakers. You will more likely update input devices and preamps as you go.
The first audiophile I met had just the opposite philosophy: he said that the first part of the audio chain to the source used is the most important, then the second, etc.
In fact the speakers were the cheapest part of his system, and it was unbelievable what those sub-1500$ speakers produced.
Here i see a lot of different answers of most of us regarding what to give more priority .
Well,speakers we al agree,but then..
I think its our own experience through the years what,s most important to you
Don,t forget to count the listing room about what is important as well,some need a serious treatment first to let the speaker show what they are capable of
And my second place is for sure amplification in this item
I got into hifi in the 90’s and then it was all about the source (typically a turntable) the recommended breakdown was something like 40-50% source, 20-30% amplifier 20-30% speakers, 10%cables, stands etc.
Plenty of audio enthusiasts still adhere to that philosophy.
I think $6,000 on speakers with a 10K budget is way too much. Typically, higher-end speakers are designed to let you hear everything that's going on in your system.... revealing/resolving. Speakers that expensive will only highlight the deficiencies of the rest of your system and will create an unenjoyable and fatiguing listening experience.
I do agree that speakers should be on the larger side of the budget but, I'd say no more than $4,000 max with a 10K budget.
I’m in the process of upgrading my system , first was the Kef LS50 metas ( I have a medium size room ) and S2 stands filled with sand with Isoacoustics AudioBastion on all spikes ( made quite a huge diff ), then I changed all spkr and rca wires to silver Xangsane wires ( much better n cheaper than my Van Del Hul ) , second was Denafrips Pontus with MBPS USB cable. My next will be the class A SET Willsenton R800i with Mogami XLR , then maybe a Rel sub or Kef KC62. Maybe an Iris DDC with Jays Audio I2S at the end. Room treatment I find can be pretty cheap. , a carpet , a thick velvet cover for TV and coffee table , found some wallpaper that was 3D , pockmarked , irregular surface and had thickness ( looks like white plaster but feels a bit soft n rubberized ) works to great effect. By yr end it wld be complete. Enjoying the journey along the way.
So at the end Kef LS50 meta , Kef KC62 , Denafrips Pontus 2 , Willsenton R800i , Iris DDC , SimAudio Moon I5 ( from my previous system ).
The bulk should be spend on the second hand market. It's that easy, for the same budget you can buy equipment that is at least one league up the chain
Keep in mind that all components don't synergize with each other. My bright dac, flat amp and preamp and warm speakers work well together.
It was a huge eye opener once I updated my speakers. I did amp 1st turntable 2nd speakers last.mainly because they where hand me down ADS L810. I now love My Zu audio speakers!
I keep thinking that the amp and dac are the most important. The speakers need to be descent, but thats all. This is with a price compromised system. Cheers.
Make your own OB speaker with one or two drivers and a boutique cap xover.
$600 and it will sound incredible.
I disagree.
Yes, begin with the speakers, plus the amps.
They should be seen as a pair, and thus the budget should be calculated accordingly.
For instance, if you like horn speakers, you could pair those with tube amps. Or in my setup, I have paired LRS speakers with a big amp to supply enough amps to let them sign.
Then you spend the rest on your source components, digital or analog.
You have a TV where you stream music, a receiver and an amplifier. Where do you place the DAC is this type of system to get the most out of the signal coming from you TV into your receiver and on to the amplifier. I have notice that in some receivers the streaming from the TV is horrible coming from the amps. However, when I use the bluetooth option of the receiver the sound is infinitely better. How do you find information about the DACs that already exists in your TV and receivers so you know you are buying a better DAC. Thanks.
Can you talk about AVR receivers
I wouldn’t hold my breath, cousin
Agreed. What about an AVR since that’s about the only thing readily available?
I spend most of my budget on
Spray n Wash stain removal.
Followed by Tide Pods.
It's almost impossible to audition loudspeakers when audio retailers are mostly gone. Even if they are close to your home they probably have limited choices. It's really a crap shoot these days. I bought JBL's based upon my past experience with them. I've bought several other brands like ZU Audio, KEF, Klipsch, etc. But JBL now owned by the largest audio company in the world Samsung still has a great reputation. Look at how Kendrick Sound creates their own JBL versions around their platform.
What if you want to stream locally from a SSD or off your network storage. How would you suggest doing that and what products do you suggest? Thanks
On the source side, I can see how DACs can make a difference, but why is the quality of a DAC-less streamer important?
Strange for a $10k system your first recommendation for dac,/streamer is a $600 node ? I would suspect some 30% of the total budget.
Speakers, Dac, steamer, amp. Preamp is optional since every dac is a preamp.
Ok new subscriber and a newbie, I have a limited budget of $10K, so what would you suggest(speakers, integrated dac, subwoofer etc..) for me to buy? I know this is broad question given the myriad brands to choose from, but I am considering B &W 702 but not sure which integrated amp to pair it with. I’ve been to 3 different hifi stores in my area, and they all have differing & conflicting suggestion. Any input is greatly appreciated. TIA.
Wondering I have a primaluna evo 400 and I am wondering what speakers to pair it with? Right now I have vienna acoustics mozart grand.
"...For example, my main system sounds amazing with my $20k speakers fed by a $9k DAC and powered by a $2400 integrated amplifier..." Are they Fleetwood Deville speakers, Chord Dave Dac and the Integrated amp.? Which Int. amp. do you have for that combination and price? Thank you.
I love my cerwin vega sl15 some of the best speakers I have ever heard for $1000 what are those speakers 🔊 please write me back thank you
Source is more important than anything else in the chain. Divvy up your budget however you see fit, but focus on the source first. A shitty source out of great speakers is going to sound awesome (ly shitty.)
I would like to back up a little bit. I think one should not start allocating a budget until you made a selection of the speaker first. Then budget sources, amplification, and cables after. I have found that one needs to consider the system as a balance of the whole, not so much what percentage of funds should be allocated where. Especially these days, where speaker technology has improved so much. An (Adjusted for inflation.) $4,500 pair can do a lot more than they could 40 years ago. I feel that should be taken into account now days, and the 60% split may no longer be the best way to go. Just IMHO, but on a $10K system, I would advise against going with a $6,000 model, if one likes the sound of a $4500.00 pair just as well. Then look to invest the balance into a better source.
I cannot begin to tell you how many gimped systems I have listened to over the years, by friends who invested a lot into their speakers, but not enough towards the source or amps. Resulting in something that faithfully reproduces that etched sound of a sub par digital front end, or electronic sheen from an equally less than capable integrated.
I don't disagree with anything you said, but I believe that 90% of the people with 10k to built a new system, know this stuff already. Only a few start with a 10k system. Not to mention some of them are not that much into music, especially tech and the audiophile journey, in general. They're doing it for other reasons.
most important parts of your audio enjoyment is the speakers and the room.
@@borisbobowski628 exactly
Garbage in, garbage out...
more than once this is the case
Ironic he doesn't mention used. Hifi speakers have changed a bit over the years. Although you can find a five year old set at 40% off because someone moved up. Just bought a 14k speaker for 5k. Not sure what to do with the rest of the system though 🤣😆🙂
Sorry but I found upgrading the source and the amp makes a bigger jump in performance and sound quality.
Speakers - Yes Yes! Ivor Tiefenbrun is responsible for so much misinformation in advertising his LP12! Speakers have huge mechanical problems to overcome, and to get a 'match' in quality vs speakers and other components it simply costs a lot more. Overcoming the conversions twixt mechanical to electrical is problematic and is expensive! You also have a number of other costs associated with speakers; shipping, storage, cabinetry.... This is also why a decent turntable is also comparatively expensive.
So many folks in the 70s-80s ended up with a fully decked LP12 playing into a polished cigar box with a couple of 10c drivers espousing the garbage in/out 'revelation'!
If you want a great sounding poweramp, preamp, and speaker built it your self it won't cost you 10K for doing it
6k on speakers is disproportional to the 10k budget. A balanced system is more important so I would suggest 3.5k-4.5k on speakers which gives a lot more wiggle room for things like turntable/preamp/cartridge, preamp/power amp, CD player/ DAC and cables. Better quality components have the best chance of achieving near maximum quality from the speakers. If an upgrade is viable years down the track, you only need to replace the speakers rather than each component in turn to achieve a better system.
im spending 2 k in speakers, 1600 in amp and 1500 in cd streamer.
Very well said - that is what I learned in my Music lover journey!
nope if you spend the most on the amplifier and dac they will have better things going into speakers so you won't get garbage in and garbage out. Most higher end speakers will sound like crap because of the distortion they are getting fed becasue they are more resolving.
Most all Speakers have Low Quality crossovers. It’s kinda turned me off to the speaker hype. My Marantz have a DAC and I stream Apple Music
Thank you!
How is a streamer sonically superior to a laptop as a pre dac source?
Electrical noise and jitter.
totally worth the upgrade laptop is full of noise
@@matticeverhoeven6539 How do you perceive jitter when it’s happening?
Glasroom plus hornspeakers...man, i dont know. No wall treatment going on?
1. Speakers
2. Preamp
3. Poweramp
4. yes, get seperates
5. Cartridge
6. Cables
7. Turntable
Long intro. For those short on time, info starts at 1:45
Flip one and two and I'm on board. Speakers cannot IMPROVE upon anything. Period. They can ALTER the sound. But not IMPROVE the sound. They can however, tell you how crappy the ancillary gear is.
@Listener - Audio Enthusiast Do you think a speaker can IMPROVE a signal it's being sent? It can't. In fact, there is no single piece of gear in the recording or playback chain that screws up the waveform like speakers do. Don't believe me? Just look at ANY speakers step response. HORRIBLE.
and Analogue ?
Get the best speakers you can and work your back
Speakers , Speakers , Speakers ..!!
Balance
Don't cripple your sound quality with compressed Spotify...instead use a quality lossless source like Apple Music.
Huh? Sorry, couldn’t stop staring at those Devilles
I would invest in washing powder for that stain on your sweater :)
Lol. Yep that stain is never leaving...and I do not care. : )
Basically I agree BUT at the same time if you have a 6K speaker with a 2-3K amp, you will get only a fraction of its performance. You will think that you have a mediocre speaker because your amp can not drive it to its full potential.
Cheers to all you lucky bastards that can spend 6k dollars on speakers. 🙏
I do my bulk on Tubes
The most important is the room acoustics - even a crappy laptop speakers will sound better than the most expensive hi-end system.
Well,
but no
I disagree, garbage in-garbage out. spend either equally or even more on the source, (cartridge , dac) . 30% to 50%
$2,000 per cartridge, tonearm, turntable, pre amp amps speakers. dac.
Speakers can only make a sound with the signal they are given. Give them a poor signal and it doesn’t matter how much you spent on them, they won’t make a poor signal better.
🖤🖤🖤🖤🧟♀️👻📻✌️
wax out your ears. hmm amazing
Ii doubt if anyone gives much creedence to your unsolicited advice and opinions.
Hi sir from India need support. Old used amblefire i want sir. Poor gay please support