Why would one not want to take advantage of the magically adjustable waterline of a boat on edge and its encouraging effect on turns? Taught to the beginner/novice it’ll create a less skilled paddler, especially in conditions. The opening of the blade angle after starting in neutral should not come from opening the forearm angle relative to the direction your upper torso is pointing to but from rotating your torso towards the side of the active blade, leaving the forearm-torso angle the same and thus protecting your shoulder. You can control the angle with your quintessential paddling muscle group, your torso rotators. Leaning forward will tighten the turn further. I can’t imagine bigger conditions where I would use a maneuver in this position over directional boat control through forward stroke combined with more or less aggressive edging, all contingent on definition of bigger of course. In the dynamics of bigger conditions I’d be concerned about sudden power shift onto the back-face of the paddle suddenly creating force against your head-neck. If I’d decide to use bow rudder in conditions then only with the off-arm in front of my forehead. Not saying this method has no value, it can give the edge-averse or “lazy” or beginner paddler directional control in lighter conditions. I will also acknowledge that there is no right or wrong. Different methods may work differently for different people. Well done video!
@@Dfl87165 Yes and no. I have found too many timid when it comes to edging so that are less focused on learning and more staying upright. The other issue is that all turns can be done without edging. Edging amplifies the turn. I prefer to teach how to turn - the stroke itself, then add in the edge. That also allows me to go into which way we edge and why. Too many are taught 'outside' edge and in some cases, I prefer inside - even on forward sweeps: turning in strong wind or waves. This allows new students to learn the stroke, how edge (and changing it) impacts the turn, and provides them the ability to put them together based on conditions to get the most out of the turn while maximizing stability. Strokes can be done any number of ways. I am all about the concepts. It's worked well with paddlers who struggled with other approaches.
@@robertnissenbaum All very fair arguments for a different approach to teaching! Agree on inside edge creating nice turns in tight quarters, it’s certainly less demanding/more comfortable than edging. Cheers!
"anchoring the low hand" is something I had not thought of. Too often I see others not "anchoring" thus...having difficulty, which can lead to lack of interest in practicing. Well Done.
Thanks. That was the same comment from the student who has worked with several skilled coaches. If the hand is off the deck, I need to fight the water wanting to pull the paddle backwards. It's hard on the body and especially the shoulder.
Echoing the previous comment. Whenever I’ve seen this demonstrated in video, the OSK content for example, they have the arm out, almost like a draw. In fact I think they say, “ if you extend too much it becomes a draw.” I’m going to have to give this a try. Thank you.
@@robertkerner4833 I was taught the same way most were. I found it very hard to keep the blade in the water where I wanted which meant less control over the turn and fighting to keep the blade where I wanted it also put extra strain on my arm and shoulder. A key component of the bow rudder is to lean forward. I naturally started resting my forearm on the deck and ended up finding out I have less strain more control. The added benefit is that it keeps my blade well-positioned to exit the rudder in a forward stroke. Let me know how it works for you.
You are only 2nd example of holding shoulder and arm in and low to protect it. I am woman with rotator cuff issues, and this position seems strongest safest. Excellent video angle and explanation of blade position and affects at different angles. Most videos even from certified folks dont get into detail you gave. Well done. And just note, not every touring kayaker uses skirt, especially in hot temps, or if no training available for wet exits.. so edging a turn might flood cockpit getting too low.
I think the reason you are getting the 'yank' is because your paddle should be more parallel to the boat. The blade is going in at a large angle, regardless of whether you are open or closed on the blade. If you cross your upper hand to the opposite shoulder or to your forehead, you get a better angle of attack, better ergonomics and better control when opening and closing the blade. You can also fully insert the blade in the water. I would also say that edging is essential here - not just to improve the effectiveness of the turn (which it will do), but it helps to counteract the pull towards the paddle side. If you do mess it up, and get the yank you speak of, having edge in the opposite direction will help stop you from being yanked over. Here's 2 really good videos teaching bow rudder. th-cam.com/video/qcVjHWrhL5I/w-d-xo.html th-cam.com/video/iPCVVKLt0oI/w-d-xo.html
There is indeed a point in crossing you upper hand to the opposite shoulder. Better angle and blade control. But also off centered body balance and a very unfavourable position for any reactive strokes needed for incomming waves. So I would say Roberts interpretation of the stroke is safer, especially for beginners. He explained all the blade angle details very well.
The only real difference is that I will put the blade in a bit deeper because I don't have to worry about it getting yanked out of my hands the same way a Euro blade would.
![ไลฟ์สุ่ม iPhone 295 บาท... โกงมั้ย?[ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.97 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gdstHEE4UUE/mqdefault.jpg)
Why would one not want to take advantage of the magically adjustable waterline of a boat on edge and its encouraging effect on turns? Taught to the beginner/novice it’ll create a less skilled paddler, especially in conditions.
The opening of the blade angle after starting in neutral should not come from opening the forearm angle relative to the direction your upper torso is pointing to but from rotating your torso towards the side of the active blade, leaving the forearm-torso angle the same and thus protecting your shoulder. You can control the angle with your quintessential paddling muscle group, your torso rotators. Leaning forward will tighten the turn further.
I can’t imagine bigger conditions where I would use a maneuver in this position over directional boat control through forward stroke combined with more or less aggressive edging, all contingent on definition of bigger of course. In the dynamics of bigger conditions I’d be concerned about sudden power shift onto the back-face of the paddle suddenly creating force against your head-neck. If I’d decide to use bow rudder in conditions then only with the off-arm in front of my forehead.
Not saying this method has no value, it can give the edge-averse or “lazy” or beginner paddler directional control in lighter conditions. I will also acknowledge that there is no right or wrong. Different methods may work differently for different people.
Well done video!
Great comment. Thank you!
@@robertnissenbaum Quick clarification: I meant to say that edging taught to the beginner/novice creates a more skilled paddler, of course.
@@Dfl87165 Yes and no. I have found too many timid when it comes to edging so that are less focused on learning and more staying upright.
The other issue is that all turns can be done without edging. Edging amplifies the turn. I prefer to teach how to turn - the stroke itself, then add in the edge.
That also allows me to go into which way we edge and why. Too many are taught 'outside' edge and in some cases, I prefer inside - even on forward sweeps: turning in strong wind or waves.
This allows new students to learn the stroke, how edge (and changing it) impacts the turn, and provides them the ability to put them together based on conditions to get the most out of the turn while maximizing stability.
Strokes can be done any number of ways. I am all about the concepts. It's worked well with paddlers who struggled with other approaches.
@@robertnissenbaum All very fair arguments for a different approach to teaching! Agree on inside edge creating nice turns in tight quarters, it’s certainly less demanding/more comfortable than edging. Cheers!
"anchoring the low hand" is something I had not thought of. Too often I see others not "anchoring" thus...having difficulty, which can lead to lack of interest in practicing. Well Done.
Thanks. That was the same comment from the student who has worked with several skilled coaches. If the hand is off the deck, I need to fight the water wanting to pull the paddle backwards. It's hard on the body and especially the shoulder.
Echoing the previous comment. Whenever I’ve seen this demonstrated in video, the OSK content for example, they have the arm out, almost like a draw. In fact I think they say, “ if you extend too much it becomes a draw.” I’m going to have to give this a try. Thank you.
@@robertkerner4833 I was taught the same way most were. I found it very hard to keep the blade in the water where I wanted which meant less control over the turn and fighting to keep the blade where I wanted it also put extra strain on my arm and shoulder.
A key component of the bow rudder is to lean forward. I naturally started resting my forearm on the deck and ended up finding out I have less strain more control.
The added benefit is that it keeps my blade well-positioned to exit the rudder in a forward stroke.
Let me know how it works for you.
Exactly what I thought too.
You are only 2nd example of holding shoulder and arm in and low to protect it. I am woman with rotator cuff issues, and this position seems strongest safest.
Excellent video angle and explanation of blade position and affects at different angles. Most videos even from certified folks dont get into detail you gave. Well done.
And just note, not every touring kayaker uses skirt, especially in hot temps, or if no training available for wet exits.. so edging a turn might flood cockpit getting too low.
I think the reason you are getting the 'yank' is because your paddle should be more parallel to the boat. The blade is going in at a large angle, regardless of whether you are open or closed on the blade.
If you cross your upper hand to the opposite shoulder or to your forehead, you get a better angle of attack, better ergonomics and better control when opening and closing the blade. You can also fully insert the blade in the water.
I would also say that edging is essential here - not just to improve the effectiveness of the turn (which it will do), but it helps to counteract the pull towards the paddle side. If you do mess it up, and get the yank you speak of, having edge in the opposite direction will help stop you from being yanked over.
Here's 2 really good videos teaching bow rudder.
th-cam.com/video/qcVjHWrhL5I/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/iPCVVKLt0oI/w-d-xo.html
There is indeed a point in crossing you upper hand to the opposite shoulder. Better angle and blade control. But also off centered body balance and a very unfavourable position for any reactive strokes needed for incomming waves. So I would say Roberts interpretation of the stroke is safer, especially for beginners. He explained all the blade angle details very well.
Excellent visual, I'm wondering how deferent the bow ruder is when using a Greenland paddle?
The only real difference is that I will put the blade in a bit deeper because I don't have to worry about it getting yanked out of my hands the same way a Euro blade would.
Not to be used for white water slalom . His right hand needs to be on forehead
Different kayaks and forces will change how strokes are performed, so that makes sense.