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I think the best way to handle an "Atlas" is as a player, give affirmation to the DMs ideas and or others, to be engaging themselves, to simply give the DM a compliment during and after games, slowly but surely building up that confidence. Because that's what the Atlas is afraid of being boring, being judged by the player, in silence, behind his back and so on, that is where the pressure comes from. Relieve that pressure by simply saying "nice game, i really liked...." is a hilariously simple thing that can go a long way for people that are anxious and afraid that their efforts are not appreciated.
as a bonified perfectionist, even constructive criticism would be enough for me, just some sign that my players are even thinking about my games after they're over.
As a forever DM, and probably an Atlas DM too, that battles with depression, I think the best thing that can be done is that when the session ends make sure to do a wrap up. It's the Dimension 20 "Adventuring Party" concept that I've taken to heart to help heal my own. End the session and then check in on everyone in the group, just take a few minutes to unclench and get out of character. PCs can ask above the table questions and everyone can check in with each other on a real world level. It helps.
We had a campaign that ran for about a year, year and a half. The DM went through a depressive episode, stopped replying to messages and deleted our discord server. I'm pretty sure he's an Atlas based on this video, and the weight of his own expectations and his depression coupled together to burn it all to the ground. If there's any of the unlikely fellows that see this, I miss you guys
For the Atlas DM Esper the Bard has a great video on the subjects were he ranks the types of DMs. In his video he refers to them at the anxious DMs. His advice is for DMs to let go of the fear as he brings up DMs who are able to keep players for a long time tend to already be a cut among the rest. As someone who has a habit of being the Anxious/Atlas DM I can confirm that trying to let go of the anxiety and accept the fact that you have players that come regularly at all is a miracle. I am no were perfect in this and have a long way to go but acknowledging you are safe, you are loved, and your style is unique and you don’t need to depend on all the merchandise has helped wonders.
"Let go of the fear"... not exactly helpful advice. Anxious DMs need positive reinforcement from their players. They need to feel the excitement at the table, see players get into character and engage with their world, hear their players talk about their game with each other.
@ It’s a balance. Yes you need positive reinforcement from your players but at the same time you can’t just depend on it for security. You can ask for it to much and it could drain your players. You need to be able to not let your fear consume you to the point were you need positive reinforcement just to stay a float.
That bully one shattered my first group, I was the first DM, starting a gaming group from the ground up, a bit of an Atlus and too in love with random tables. Eventually I passed the torch to another who ran Strahd and became a bully DM. Let's just say they did something heinous to me, giving me PTSD around TTRPG's for +2 years. (If you have dark spiraling thoughts seek therapy, recovery on your own is extremely difficult.) Much thanks to my cousin who invited me to his dark heresy campaign, I had a blast and got over my remaining issues. Though the GM was definitely a favoritist with his wife and later with his friend. I'm now the primary DM for a new group with better people (who incidentally redeemed critical roll fans in my eyes). Felt like a bit of a martyr finishing the Dungeon of the mad mage campaign but soon my next campaign will start and I'll put all my lessons to work honing myself into a GREAT DM.
I think often the issue with "controller" DMs is not that they want too much to be under their control, it's a failure to show the players what is and what isn't fixed. Like, if your players are on a boat, and you've got an adventure planned that kicks off with a huge hole being blown in the hull, it's actually okay to make the boat sink. The players are not entitled to a real shot at keeping the boat afloat - the adventure you planned out involves a lifeboat and a deserted island, you're getting on the lifeboat. What's not okay is letting your players run around trying to keep the boat from sinking, and then keep fudging rolls to make sure they fail. It's also not okay to have all their gear sink to the ocean floor because they 'failed' to save the ship. You just need to sink the damn thing and move on. Sometimes, what looks like a control issue is really a time/attention management issue. The DM isn't trying to deprive you of real choice, they're trying to get you to the good part, where you will have meaningful choices.
Best advice I’ve heard on this- you have the most control over the situation at the very start of the session. You can railroad them to the location at the start of a oneshot or perhaps a session with little complaint, but the further you go, the less control is needed or recommended
I'll always remember the recommendation from an old article suggesting not to give your character any bonds because the DM would "feel forced" to target them
I use dmpcs because I have a party of 2, but it's usually in the form of a character that offered to help. It's not just one character forced into the party
I also often (not always) have a dmpc, but it's usually at the request of my group. People have their favourite classes and playstyles, and want gaps in the line up filled. So they get an NPC, but with sheet and everything, and me as the DM to roll for that character and level them. Its usually just a utility character, healbot or extra tank. I tried reducing fights, so people did not have to worry about heals and "front line" so much, but they got bored and wanted "more action back in their games". It really does not help that the average D20 roll at that table is a 5, I wish I was kidding.
I run a DMPC when I have small groups to fill in role gaps (usually a tank), but I also primarily DM for kids and my family and specifically build the character to not be a skill monkey, face, or anything that could outshine the actually PCs. I usually don’t even “control” the character. I just ask the party what they want the character to do in their turn. I’d have them roll for everything as well, but I can resolve rolls faster still (playing with kids and I know the rules and results at a glance). I’ve never felt like I stole the show or even impacted the story except to improve party survivability. It also should be noted that in the kids campaign, they’re a Druid and Ranger, and in the family one they’re a Ranger and ranged Warlock so we’re talking fairly squishy ranged characters. …doing a purely ranged fight would be boring and making them deal with melee all the time would ruin the fun of the game for them. I do everything I can to make them feel like their PCs are the big damn heroes.
In my opinion, a true DMPC is a character that the DM is attached to in the same way that a player is attached to their PC, not just an NPC that has joined the party. In sort of the same situation as you, I am doing a solo campaign for my partner where she'll need a full party, so I'm adding "companions." Sort of BG3 style where she can select who's in the party. I'll give them all personalities, but their motivation in this case are just in line with her PC's motivations, so no real companion quests or anything. I'll have them comment on stuff and respond to her questions, usually by having them all give different opinions so I'm not pushing her in a direction. Finally, she controls all of their combat actions. I don't think any of that qualifies as DMPC. In another scenario, my group wanted a rigger "DMPC" for their Shadowrun crew. I acquiesced, but really the character has become an NPC getaway driver so I can ferry them around. I don't have the character do anything that might assist with the party's decision making, though I am not above using the character to impart knowledge that may help the team figure something out.
As someone who has a bit of an Atlas DM mindset himself, its reassuring when my players thank me for running a session and say they enjoyed it. Hearing that they are enjoying the world they are exploring makes all the work and effort I put in worth it! I encourage players to make sure you do the same for your DM’s. They sacrifice their personal time to ensure that their players enjoy the game, so it can really go a long way to show them how much you appreciate their efforts! 🙂
I absolutely LOVE that the entire time you're referring to the sadist, your are showing clips of Chevy Chase. I grew up watching him, love his "characters" and was SO disappointed to hear about what a schmuck he was IRL... So this made me smile.
Dont forget the one that just changes the rules every 15 minutes, because there are homemade rules... but he didnt explained them. And once you see something happens and see the roll, you say.. oh, so its like that, ill do that. Then its not like that anymore. So you get confused and annoyed because everything you do may be easy or hard, and it has nothing to do with the action or the character, its just whatever the dm decides at that point.
Look. Im a bit of an usurper. I have a DMPC in every dampaign i run. I just dont let him go on The adventures, he's at whatever homebase the group has decided on. I use him as a role play lubricator, its easier for my players to talk to me if im in a chatacter they're familiar with, and Mathek essentially acts as a quest board for the group.
in my mind the atlas DM is "a victim of his own success". he sits down, uses his brain and imagination to craft something special. something he can hook into the story, or the world or a microcosm inside his world. and he links the PC's to those scenarios and historical events. and it is the same effect a crafter has: i want to show you that i made something cool. thats what anybody does who creates something. kids show you their first paintings, you make something from wood or an origami figure - excitement of what you made WANTS to the shared with friends, because shared joy, is joy doubled. so the reason as to why they to it - i feel that all too well^^
I definitely used to be a Bully DM, though not to the extent I see on RPG horror stories. During the first campaign I ran, most of the group were first time players except for one, and none of us really knew each other that well. That one player that had more experience was a really big power gamer, and came with a really strong build that, as a new DM, I had a really hard time balancing and that was really frustrating. I definitely was harder on that player, generally didn't give loot that I knew would help their build, and tended to target them more often than other players - something which I justified at the time as me trying to keep things level but, again, I was just frustrated. As I became a better DM, the players became better players, and we got to know each other better outside of the game, that all improved, and me and that player are pretty good friends now. All this to say, there are a lot of reasons why a DM can become a bad DM, and I think we all start out with bad habits that we need to be introspective about and work on. And, y'know, talk to each other about. That player could have been a really good resource for me early on if I just bothered to voice what I was struggling with.
In fairness to DMPCs, it's possible to make them really fun for the players. They're particularly useful if you have a small group of players, like 2-3. You can use them to fill roles that the other players simply didn't want to play(Usually the Healer), or to just move things along when the players have been stuck in front of a "Puzzle" that's basically just Tic-Tac-Toe for 2 hours, or Just be general "Common Sense" for he group, a way to tell the players IN GAME that what they're planning will likely have Negative Consequences without relying on telling them out of game and then expecting them to Metagame to sudden change their minds... They can also be used as a catalyst for Interesting Questlines, they might need help from their Friends to get something done, while that story being relatively unrelated to the other player's goals, this can lead the players to interesting places they would otherwise not go to. The Trick is to NEVER Make them Particularly Social Characters, and make sure they have a Personality that's more Subdued, either they're shy, or Brooding, doesn't matter which, so long as they're not the type of person that likes to make Decisions for a group (They're not there to drive Group Decisions, they're there to Help them achieve them with whatever Niche skills they have that the players don't, If they ARE the "Solution" to a Puzzle or Problem, it should be up to the players to decide to use them for that, they should not Step up to take care of it if not asked... Unless it's been an hour banging their heads against a wall, and even then they should never be the ONLY Solution to the problem.). Still make them interesting and have distinctive personalities and quirks, but only in so far as the players are interested in them... If done right, these characters will be adored by your players, After all, who doesn't like an endearing and useful Sidekick? One Example I can think of that I've used, was in a game where I had 2-3 players at a time(depending on time), they were part of a Weird Underground Mafia, and I gave them a Roster of "DMPCs" that they could choose to add to their party to round out their Combat Roles... At one point they had access to over a Dozen of these varied characters to choose from, and could switch em out basically anytime... But they always Picked the SAME one, "the Doc" AKA the "Clown Crow", a Mute Plague Doctor/"Vivisection Enthusiast" Drow who acted like an Absolute Clown every Chance he got (His Plague Mask that he never took off could Emote and that alone formed like 90% of his communication skills)... It's gotten to the point where every now and then the Doc has other shit he needs to do, like his profession as an Actual Doctor, and the players actually get SAD that he's Benched for whatever mission they happen to not have him for.
I've recently decided to DM for a group of coworker friends after a long hiatus. This was helpful in that I now have a mental checklist of behaviors to watch out for and avoid. Not that I'm worried, per se, but still good for self reflection. Thanks for always generating great content. (Also, I can't wait to put Ryoko's Guide to use! I'm SO excited!)
I guess I have a bit of Atlas tendencies, in the sense that I _do_ feel responsible for my players' happiness and enjoyment at my table. But to my credit, I am lazy enough to not over-prep, confident and capable enough to successfully "wing it" if necessary, and experienced enough to know that a happy table is not made by myself alone. Plus, I'm fortunate enough to have players who are responsible enough to come every week to play at my table, so I think it's only fair that I share in that responsibility to do my part. :D
I've had a DM who was a combination of the Atlas, the Sadist, and the Favouritist, all rolled into one. It was not a fun time, but the only other option was to be the DM myself (nobody else "knew how") or leave, and I wanted to play the game for once rather than be a DM. I'm also an introvert who gets uncomfortable around people I don't know, so it's a bit difficult to find a playgroup where I'm not the DM. Tangent aside, it's probably no surprise that particular campaign died.
On the usurper category, there is a way to run a "dmpc" the right way The best example i can think of is the way Murph does it from NADDPOD, its an NPC that sticks with the party, usually weaker than the party and he uses them as a narrative device BUT its never forced, it is usually someone that the party would like to stick along regardless, and he doesnt take the spotlight from them but only adds to the story
I think an NPC accompanying the party is different than a DMPC. I've run (D&D 3.5) an NPC with my party (a ranger) because they had no wilderness skills and needed to travel into the mountains and find an abandoned temple. I kept her a level behind the party, she didn't generally offer a valid opinion on anything outside nature/tracking/survival/etc. And the PCs controlled all aspects of treasure distribution. I also made sure to check with the players that I wasn't overstepping with her. Different than another campaign I played in where the DMPC was basically an epic level character but still fighting alongside us and if we disagreed, we got dominated into compliance.
Sometimes I do what the usurper does and try to add a character to the party to help them. Difference is when I do it it's a Skyrim follower who just babbles on about getting their ass kicked and not really doing anything unless prompted by the other players. Typically happens when the party lacks a healer or utility caster
Exactly what i do aswell. The character will only be support, have skills they lack and interact with them only to bond, but never makes ANY decision for the players except in one single case: If they decided to go after the npc backstory and it comes to a moment of "revenge vs mercy" and at that moment they all decide to leave it up to the npc.
@0lloc0 That, or we're in combat. I don't give them their own actions or anything but if a mf gets within melee range for a reaction, npc will smack em with whatever's in hand for minimal damage. And with the given parameters of having the npc in the first place, npc is in the back of the party anyway (unless told to do something else) so atp there's really no avoiding doing it bc the party is either preoccupied or almost completely wiped. I won't do it if it'll kill the enemy though unless I ask the players ahead of time "hey this is what bro will do, are you cool with em getting the kill if it happens?" and they're cool with it
As a bit of an Atlas, the best advice that has helped me, especially with the sort of imposter syndrome doubt of whether the players are having fun or not, is to do just the quick survey at the end of session: asking if anyone had anything they liked, things they didn't like, questions, comments, concerns, etc. Just keep it super casual and don't go in expecting everyone to speak up or have something to say. You'll start noticing that your players almost always only have good things to say, when they bring something up, even the things they didn't like are likely to complements (like hating an NPC, but really likeing how you played them sort of thing). It really helps to assuage those fears, at least for me.
Honestly i feel like most DM's resort to the type of things you hear in horror stories, just cause they feel insecure or aren't experience. Some are just D*cks though
You forgot about the 8th type: Me. Whenever I make you roll a dice I will also roll the same dice, and if we get the same number I will jump over the table and eat your dice.
I have had to use DMPCs before when low on players, but they were never really "in scenes" unless it was combat or when the character was translating for the group. I've used 2 different dmpcs and was constantly paranoid of having them
Thanks for this! I question myself, like we all do I think, if I am making an enjoyable experience. I can say today that I do not think I have any of these toxic traits as a DM. I am sure I make a ton of errors, but as a table, we all figure out how to work through any missteps by me or the players. To me, every game is a shared experience, not a me vs. them fight.
I have quit a group due to a railroading and controlling DM before. Making modifications to rules to unnecessarily nerf a legitimate and not over powered build from the beginning. Providing inadequate plot hooks with obvious traps and absolutely refusing to allow me to say my highly intelligent character who had a high perception and investigation roll refused to step into the obvious traps. He even got mad when I nat 20d my con save to get a permanent plot related curse because he couldn't argue that I should be cursed anyway (since it would be a clear reveal the roll was meant to be failed). I missed a session and another player controlled my character, rolled well on Sleep to knockout and de-escalate a fight (which is what I would have done) and he just said Nope doesn't work... No explanation and not within RAW due to the HP of the single target
I sometimes make DmPc's to serve as a healer or a tank just so i can make combat more manageable... i take almost no last hits, the character almost never talks, is more of a punching bag with some quest lines attached...
i remember the few times i played with a different group with my then gf because i was nervous my super edgelord group would turn her off, the DM gave her such obvious favouritism and was a bit creepy towards her in game having bards at every tavern we went fawn over her so i started getting frustrated holding my temper not to call the the guy out for this bs and after a few sessions she didn't want to play DnD at all... i think the edgelords would have been a better option because at least i know the boys well
I'm part of 3 different groups at the moment. one weekly, and two others that are occasionally set up on a sunday, or a whole weekend. the weekly one has 3 players, and 3 potential DMs. every time we gather we decide which story gets played. all DMs are highly creative, and somewhat quirky in their own ways. and sometimes there is tension, but it's talked out. the sunday group (still playing AD&D after all these years) had the DM sometimes include a NPC, but solely to support. his wive is playing with us, but I don't see much favouritism. the weekend group is supposed to have three potential DMs, but so far only one is DMing, and his style is somewhere between bully and atlas. bully as in going down on PCS when he sees an ability as an unfair advantage, even though it's not a big deal and can easily subverted. but he has given us a lot of grief over nothing as of late, so we'll see what happens... but he's also a bit anxious about us enjoying the story. and right now, there is a creative block. so the question is what will come next. we will try to talk it out about the bullying; maybe it comes from his experiences with the wahrhammer board game and the way that is played? who knows.
@@bjorn00000 But these days, most dms are too afraid to even have monsters use control abilities on players in fear of 'removing player agency' which is just total nonsense.
Concern about player fun? Check Not even started DMing for real and already had a burnout period after 100h prep? Check Relentlessly consume DnD content and products? Check Spent money on DnD "improvements"? Check I'm aware that I'm anxious when it comes to other people's validation of my skills but also I want to give players on my table the experience that I would like to have as a player. Dnd became my favourite hobby 4 years ago and since then I've learned a lot about what I and my friends like as players. This will be my first time Dming and I'm 100% Atlas Gming for the most part. Hurts to get reality checked but it's for the best. Thanks Buddy!
The only DMPC I have ever used was a Kenku Rogue. They were there for 2 reasons. The party was only 3 players running through a tough module, and they wanted a rogue. I made them a Kenku, so that the only time they ever spoke was through mimicry, to aid in pushing points the players made home, or adding some funny moments. They never took the spotlight, their turns were pre-rolled in combat so as to not slow things down. Overall. I think his inclusion went over very well.
I prefer to DM and I always look at new ways of doing things. I will occasionally introduce an NPC that travels with the group for a short time if the story allows. I make sure that the players know that he/she is not a permanent character, will not do any actions the players should be doing and will fight in the background if the capability is there (some don't) but there wont be any combat rolls made. Think of video games when the companion is fighting but not really doing any damage. A few of examples: An NPC is in love with someone that was captured by a cult and is to be sacrificed and demands to go with the group. They know where to go and what the cult is about. Another example: An NPC gives information to the players they were seeking. The NPC says they need to go to a remote location and he is only going to lead them there. Another example: The party saves an NPC during an adventure. The NPC needs help to get away so they tag along with the party until they reach some sort of civilization. These could make your world be more alive as well as add to an adventure or lead into a new one. When I ran the cult scenario the NPC was not meant to live and the sacrifice was supposed to happen. The player characters inadvertently made the sacrifice happen which brought an evil entity who became their big bad for a time. It should be used rarely but having the characters create their own enemies can work very well.
I really dont like all the hate for DMPCs. Like I get the critiques, but at the same time, some groups just find it really fun! NADDPOD is a great example of why this "DMPCs are inherently bad" mindset really hurts me. Every campaign has a new DMPC, and each time, the DMPC doesn't feel like they're stealing spotlight or moving the players in Brian Murphy (the DM's) favor. Even Matt Colville has used DMPCs before (in his one on one dnd games). Its not an inherently bad thing, you just read too many (probably fake) rpghorrorstories posts where the dm is trying to make chad thundercock join the party while the players have no say
I've used DMPCs before but I had a very specific ruleset for using them. They're there to fill a role the party wants but nobody wants to play, they don't make decisions for the party, they don't try to get kills, they have limited knowledge of what's going on when asked, they are the last to get loot if at all. My players thought it was really funny to have my dmpc talk to one of my pcs because they liked watching me swap voices and personalities back and forth. They also liked that I hated doing that.
I've played in a group for over 30 years where many of the players also GM. We've never had a problem with GMPC's usurping anything. I cannot speak for ANY other group though, but it's never been a problem for us. 😁
This is really worth cross-referencing with Ginny Di's video on "what type of player are you?", because there's a lot of overlap - GMs tend to respond to players and vice versa. Adversarial DMs trigger min-maxxers, instigators trigger controllers. The list goes on. For the Atlas DM, the worst is the passive player, the socialiser. All too often, the Atlas DM will freak out about the passive socialiser(s). This is what happens to me, for sure. I'm usually fairly comfortable as a DM, but having a couple of passive players has really put me on edge. I really freak out about whether they're actually enjoying the game.
A CURE FOR THE ATLAS DM is to play more. this reminds the person of how players have fun. share the dm ing. Move away from the idea of campaigns and towards the idea of scenarios/ adventures. Set adventures in a shared game world. have a mechanic for the party to switch pcs in and out depending on the dm. or have rules for the dms character to stick as an NPC while they run the adventure. e.g. the Dm's character may only gain generic items or treasure, gains experience to keep pace with the slowest progressing player character and so on.
I feel like when it comes to DMPCs, a lot of people just automatically assume they're bad regardless of context or table. In my Sunday game, we round robin DM so everyone at the table has their own PC to bring in after their tenure is up and the next player takes over the DM helm. However, on multiple occasions, when the DM does whatever it is they do to get their character out of the way for the arc, the players have chosen to drag that player character back in, putting the DM in the position of running a character and DMing. It can be challenging, and there is an art to it, but it is doable if the players are onboard and the DM uses discretion with how choices are made - generally hanging back and letting the rest of the party figure out what they want to do without input, only solving plot problems when called upon to do so by the rest of the party, and resolving their actions quickly when it is their turn. We've been running a game with this model without interruption since 2017 and this is fun for us.
I know that I am a Usurper, and if other people are, an easy fix is to be a support and only role play with other players Edit: This might only work because I only have one player, and therefor no one for them to regularly role play with
I think the key with that is in session zero. A DM should share their anxiety or concerns as a part of the whole, since it is. Content doesn't matter if the boss is too sad to play.
Fix for the Atlas As a player: let them know if you are enjoying their game. Give them ideas, even if they aren't fully fleshed out, about what you want to do or what items or feats whatever you want As the dm: make the most perfect game possible, inevitably fail, play any using the very good game that you tried to make perfect, watch as you have fun without or even in spite of the plans you built. Expect the unexpected means to be ready for something you didn't account for to happen and is great advice for dnd like when players fall in love with the random npc you literally just made up
I've been the Atlas, but I did not compare myself with other DMs in the moment because I never knew any other DM in that time, it was my first time playing. I burnt down and never DMed again after my first campaign. It was nice for being my first time playing, but it was too stressing. Some years have passed and I'd totally do it again now that I learned a few things, if I had more free time.
I've had the Controller as my very first TTRPG experience. Out-and-out rewrote three of the four characters because he didn't care for how they were, and added a little bit of number four with his own little addition. Almost made my wife and I give up on TTRPGs on the spot.
I am an Atlas DM, and I am definitely guilty of the things mentioned for that section. It's admittedly a little draining, especially when I end up giving myself more and more campaigns to run.
I DM for a small group, 3 players, so i run a "DMPC". But he's kind of a loveable dumb dumb who is just there to fill in some gaps in the party's abilities. My players actually love this character. I've tried to write him off once and the party went out of their way to keep him around. He's nearly died several times and the party always saves him like he's just another valued member of the party. I realize this might be an exception that proves the rule, as it were. But DMPC/NPC tag along characters can be done in a way that isn't toxic. So long as the DMPC isn't stealing the spot light or saving the day all the time it's fine. The character is a bullywug rogue that the party rescued from slavery and asked to join the party. I actually never planned on having him be a permanent part of the story. The party just nudged me into it, and now they're all pretty attached to the silly little frog man. lol
I was the Atlas DM because I felt I let my players down, lots of self doubt and that caused our campaign to fall through. Granted it did not help that 1-2 players would miss every session which massively fed into my doubts but that's all in the past now
I have a DM PC in the game I'm currently running, however it isn't something inconstsntly play, and is 95% extreme background, & mostly there to give quests and further a specific character's story and is intended to be the boss they fight and kill when they're around level 5
I use DMPCs quite commonly. It's when i don't have enough players to fill out a four person party. There's nothing wrong with it, in the least, as long as the DMPCs are support characters who don't make big decisions or lead the party
Oh man the dmpc funny enough I had one in my game but I made one because there were only 2 pc and they wanted an extra character for party synergy so I made a monk with a cool side story when the players felt confident not needing an extra or we got more players and we got more so I made them a npc and a plot point but I didn’t make them an op self insert and the players loved it due to the plot shift it caused but I’m glade I didn’t mess up my first Champaign but I just lucked out
Atlas DM - Positive feedback is helpful here. Yes, criticism is okay, but often people forget to talk about the good things. Let this DM know what you would love to see more of. Engage, show enthusiasm. And offer them breaks! Time to be a player, or board game nights or other activities in which they might not feel as much pressure. The Atlas DM has the potential to be one of the best types of DM, with the genuine support of the other players.
The Big problem with atlas DM’s are the large amount of players that absolutely take all their work for granted and disrespect them. So many bad player behavior actively tells the dm them & the game their running aren’t good enough and it makes all the insecurity’s all the more real.
Not sure if the Useeper has to be the worst kind of DM if you think about it. If a dungeon master makes a DMPC, I've always thought if the following countermeasures. 1. Make encounters more challanging to account for an extra player. 2. Give the party the choice of a few npcs to choose to tag along with them, in case they need a specific role filled out 3. Have the dmpc be preoccupied during rp and puzzle solving segments to restrain yourself from interfearing.
Me at the start of this video: "Alright, let's learn about all of these horrible DMs out there..." Me at the end of this video: 😣"Why am I under attack?"
I do have some DMPCS but they’re generally very adamant about helping the party when asked cause they’re hirelings, they’re strong sure but they can’t give everything away due to the contract they signed in the adventuring guild. Gotta balance em out. Also a way to fix that is to have them mostly do something else to help the party (not just in combat)
The one time I tried to play a public game at the local gaming store the DM was relentlessly hitting on me while I didn't notice, and when it was pointed out by one of the other players, the DM physically turned away from me at the table, didn't address me for the rest of the session, and even ended combat mid way through the first round right before my turn so I didn't get to play. Unsurprisingly I haven't been back.
This said, having a video that players and Dm's can watch and refer to is always handy. But it is the group that just need to talk. all these conditions come from not talking or listening by someone in the group. Its a social game, so be social. everyone can talked it out and listen to make a great game (disclaimer some people will never talk or listen or both then that life, just remember a cheese rolling down a hill is a cheesy wheel and move on).
I use DMPCs but only to fill in roles the party doesn't have, and they are charisma vacuums. Just there to heal or Scout, and then shuts up. They don't make suggestions but agree with the party.
I might -almost- be an Altas, but the thing is, my viewpoint is that the DM is already a player, all the NPCs are mine and I get to see the way the world changes when I go in to prepare the next session. My group has gone on record and said that if I need a break, I just need to say so and one of them will run a pre-written adventure for a bit. I worried that I was experiencing burnout at one point, but it turned out it was just that the particular pre-written adventure was just written poorly.
6:51 Whenever I give my party NPCs, or when they pick them up and I have to throw a character together, I always underlevel them. From a game perspective, I don’t want to take the spotlight from my players, so I’ll give them a character that can’t do as much as them. From a story perspective, they just picked up a common guard because he rolled pretty well and survived, there’s no way he’s at the same level as my players that have traveled across the country for adventures.
The DM that plays favorites isn't toxic unless they are doing it maliciously. There are actually styles of play that can cause this sort of thing to happen unless the DM is actively working to avoid it. Anxiety or simply having too many players can also cause a DM to focus on a particular player over the others. It doesn't mean they are toxic, it often just means they are struggling.
i have been the usurper, though not on purpose and i've since told me players that i ain't running another dm pc again even if they pull similar shenanigans. the story goes that i made throwaway npc that was stranded on a mountain and the players saved her, i made up a small backstory for her and that was supposed to be it, my players though really bonded with her and as they brought her back to town they asked if she wanted to join for one adventure that would align with the motivations id claimed she had, just a single sidequest really, i thought why not, she'll have the mage statblock and everything is fine. so the sidequest got completed and at this point they loved her, i had fleshed out more and she fit well into the party, i thought screw it, i'm gonna fuse her with another npc that would have showed up later and have her be that npc. so she takes a break from adventuring with them for a few months while sorting out her things and prepping stuff. while she's away my players keep finding ways to bring the story to be about her, asking powerful npc's about her and what she's doing, scrying on things they know she cares about to see if they can't help with her goals and the like. So comes the time when i had set for her to rejoin and she did, this time as an actual dmpc with a divination wizard statblock and a level matching the party, she stayed along for the ride the entire campaign and her story was as much a part of it as my players pc's were, i regret not a damn thing but i still wouldn't do it again
I had one who was the opposite of favoritist. She made sure my character especially had the worst time, got attacked by all the spells of the enemy spellcasters, made up rules on the fly to give abilities to their bosses so that my spell failed, and finally when a boss was taken down everyone would get epic +3 swords but my wizard would get nothing better than a common or uncommon. I tried to work it out with them and when it did not work, walked the **** out. Edit: Oww they were the bully lol.
I admit that I had run a DMPC on a couple of occasions, but they were only there to fill a role. Once we had enough people playing the filler would leave the party. I always hated the idea of the DM having an OP character and the rest of the party felt like they didn't matter.
I've played with a DM who had a favourite character / player (his GF) she was playing a druid, and tought that she needed a shield so she got the warcaster feat for free. Wanted to cast magic missile as a druid so she got a wand with infinite use. Meanwhile I was playing a Barbarian so I was obviously stupid (I didn't dump intel), couldn't count so got less gold when it was time to divide loot and I handed too many gold when I had to pay a merchant and never got my change back, when I made compelling argument because we were obviously heading into a trap, the DM just ruled that I was too dumb to figure that out, so nothing that I said was actually said. Every athletic check were suddenly acrobatics for no reason at all. I got to a point were I was not engaging in anything anymore, I didn't talk to NPC, didn't engage with the world in any way, not to open doors, not to investigate, I was basicelly saying nothing except when we were in combat to say what I was doing. I was planning on killing my character and move on, but life got in the way and we never got to schedule the next session, I'm "sad" that I didn't get to kill him so if they want to continue the story without technically they can play with my concept and ruin it
You know it's strange. When I first started getting into DND and then DMing, I constantly read about those poor "Forever Dms" suffering. About how they would rather play than DM and always had to prep so much. And I thought I was a weirdo, because I actually enjoy being the DM more than being the player. Sure I also overprep most of the time, but to build a story, build the NPCs, search for maps and print out tokens on the company printer (because I'm not a moron using my own money), that's pure joy for me. Now I tend to just try not to use the term Forever DM due to all the stigma it has.
Thanks to this video, I see myself showing some ‘controller’ traits. We’re in our 4th year of an epic campaign. It started wide open, like a sandbox. But we’re approaching the BBEG. They’re in a linear dungeon and there are no more side quests; only the singular plot. I do think they’re enjoying the play, but now am wondering if, even in this final 2-layer dungeon, if there is room to make more opportunity for player agency.
If you want a DMPC, they should to focus on support, healing, and buffing abilities the players, or asking the players questions that lead players towards an answer or prompt the players to explain their thinking in character.
This video has made me realize that I might be a Usurper DM... by accident. A real "Road Paved To Hell With Good Intentions". I'm a 4 year veteran DND player, but a first-time DM and in my naivety I had an undead minion join the party after they gave him a new body and the group (all of them new players) really loved him. In my defence, I was only planning on making him a temporary companion, a safety net for my equally new players before they get to bigger things. But now that I've seen this video and realizing this is a serious problem, I'm starting to realize maybe I shouldn't have brought him back after the opening stinger. I'd like to think I'm playing responsibly with him, but not only is that a biased take, it also makes me self-conscience that I might be ruining the game without anybody realizing it by playing as a Divination Wizard DMPC. Granted, that self-consciences is partly why I have the character take a more passive approach to combat, but by this point he kind of became a mainstay and I don't know how to remove him from the party in a meaningful way without it feeling like unsatisfying bullshit. I also kind of accidentally fell into the Favouritist Type by giving a Drake Warden a homebrew magic item without realizing just how powerful base Drake Warden already was. It was a magic item you gave to your Drake Companion that let you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage of it's Infused Strikes. It was a decision that I still regret to this day and much like my own DMPC it's a mistake I want to correct, but not at the expense of my player's fun. TL;DR: I am an inexperienced DM that makes inexperienced decisions and now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.
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I think the best way to handle an "Atlas" is as a player, give affirmation to the DMs ideas and or others, to be engaging themselves, to simply give the DM a compliment during and after games, slowly but surely building up that confidence. Because that's what the Atlas is afraid of being boring, being judged by the player, in silence, behind his back and so on, that is where the pressure comes from. Relieve that pressure by simply saying "nice game, i really liked...." is a hilariously simple thing that can go a long way for people that are anxious and afraid that their efforts are not appreciated.
why you want to give a compliment to these jerks....
as a bonified perfectionist, even constructive criticism would be enough for me, just some sign that my players are even thinking about my games after they're over.
As a forever DM, and probably an Atlas DM too, that battles with depression, I think the best thing that can be done is that when the session ends make sure to do a wrap up. It's the Dimension 20 "Adventuring Party" concept that I've taken to heart to help heal my own. End the session and then check in on everyone in the group, just take a few minutes to unclench and get out of character. PCs can ask above the table questions and everyone can check in with each other on a real world level. It helps.
We had a campaign that ran for about a year, year and a half. The DM went through a depressive episode, stopped replying to messages and deleted our discord server. I'm pretty sure he's an Atlas based on this video, and the weight of his own expectations and his depression coupled together to burn it all to the ground.
If there's any of the unlikely fellows that see this, I miss you guys
As a sadist GM, I'm hurt.
As a masochist GM, that's okay.
I had the luck to only play with good people and dms but unfortunately haven’t finished many campaigns due to party disbanding
You forgot the 8th type, my DM. He made me sick for days and he didnt even taste good
Phrasing?
Lizardfolkposting
See, that's why we don't eat raw meat
@@StoneDragonSmoothie feel like there isnt any possible other interpretation i didn't intend lmao
@@crystallxix1493 nope, worth a shot though lol
For the Atlas DM Esper the Bard has a great video on the subjects were he ranks the types of DMs. In his video he refers to them at the anxious DMs. His advice is for DMs to let go of the fear as he brings up DMs who are able to keep players for a long time tend to already be a cut among the rest.
As someone who has a habit of being the Anxious/Atlas DM I can confirm that trying to let go of the anxiety and accept the fact that you have players that come regularly at all is a miracle. I am no were perfect in this and have a long way to go but acknowledging you are safe, you are loved, and your style is unique and you don’t need to depend on all the merchandise has helped wonders.
"Let go of the fear"... not exactly helpful advice. Anxious DMs need positive reinforcement from their players. They need to feel the excitement at the table, see players get into character and engage with their world, hear their players talk about their game with each other.
@ It’s a balance. Yes you need positive reinforcement from your players but at the same time you can’t just depend on it for security. You can ask for it to much and it could drain your players. You need to be able to not let your fear consume you to the point were you need positive reinforcement just to stay a float.
That bully one shattered my first group, I was the first DM, starting a gaming group from the ground up, a bit of an Atlus and too in love with random tables.
Eventually I passed the torch to another who ran Strahd and became a bully DM.
Let's just say they did something heinous to me, giving me PTSD around TTRPG's for +2 years. (If you have dark spiraling thoughts seek therapy, recovery on your own is extremely difficult.)
Much thanks to my cousin who invited me to his dark heresy campaign, I had a blast and got over my remaining issues. Though the GM was definitely a favoritist with his wife and later with his friend.
I'm now the primary DM for a new group with better people (who incidentally redeemed critical roll fans in my eyes). Felt like a bit of a martyr finishing the Dungeon of the mad mage campaign but soon my next campaign will start and I'll put all my lessons to work honing myself into a GREAT DM.
Unless you've been officially diagnosed with PTSD, please don't say you have it.
I think often the issue with "controller" DMs is not that they want too much to be under their control, it's a failure to show the players what is and what isn't fixed.
Like, if your players are on a boat, and you've got an adventure planned that kicks off with a huge hole being blown in the hull, it's actually okay to make the boat sink. The players are not entitled to a real shot at keeping the boat afloat - the adventure you planned out involves a lifeboat and a deserted island, you're getting on the lifeboat.
What's not okay is letting your players run around trying to keep the boat from sinking, and then keep fudging rolls to make sure they fail. It's also not okay to have all their gear sink to the ocean floor because they 'failed' to save the ship. You just need to sink the damn thing and move on.
Sometimes, what looks like a control issue is really a time/attention management issue. The DM isn't trying to deprive you of real choice, they're trying to get you to the good part, where you will have meaningful choices.
Best advice I’ve heard on this- you have the most control over the situation at the very start of the session.
You can railroad them to the location at the start of a oneshot or perhaps a session with little complaint, but the further you go, the less control is needed or recommended
DMPC's can be completely fine.
I'll always remember the recommendation from an old article suggesting not to give your character any bonds because the DM would "feel forced" to target them
I use dmpcs because I have a party of 2, but it's usually in the form of a character that offered to help. It's not just one character forced into the party
I also often (not always) have a dmpc, but it's usually at the request of my group. People have their favourite classes and playstyles, and want gaps in the line up filled. So they get an NPC, but with sheet and everything, and me as the DM to roll for that character and level them. Its usually just a utility character, healbot or extra tank. I tried reducing fights, so people did not have to worry about heals and "front line" so much, but they got bored and wanted "more action back in their games". It really does not help that the average D20 roll at that table is a 5, I wish I was kidding.
@ottodeluxe my party got a druid and a barbarian to help clear some undead.... which included a death knight.... at level 6
I run a DMPC when I have small groups to fill in role gaps (usually a tank), but I also primarily DM for kids and my family and specifically build the character to not be a skill monkey, face, or anything that could outshine the actually PCs. I usually don’t even “control” the character. I just ask the party what they want the character to do in their turn. I’d have them roll for everything as well, but I can resolve rolls faster still (playing with kids and I know the rules and results at a glance). I’ve never felt like I stole the show or even impacted the story except to improve party survivability. It also should be noted that in the kids campaign, they’re a Druid and Ranger, and in the family one they’re a Ranger and ranged Warlock so we’re talking fairly squishy ranged characters. …doing a purely ranged fight would be boring and making them deal with melee all the time would ruin the fun of the game for them. I do everything I can to make them feel like their PCs are the big damn heroes.
@redactedlemons6817 mine is also a ranger and a warlock coincidentally. My brother and his girlfriend
In my opinion, a true DMPC is a character that the DM is attached to in the same way that a player is attached to their PC, not just an NPC that has joined the party.
In sort of the same situation as you, I am doing a solo campaign for my partner where she'll need a full party, so I'm adding "companions." Sort of BG3 style where she can select who's in the party.
I'll give them all personalities, but their motivation in this case are just in line with her PC's motivations, so no real companion quests or anything. I'll have them comment on stuff and respond to her questions, usually by having them all give different opinions so I'm not pushing her in a direction. Finally, she controls all of their combat actions.
I don't think any of that qualifies as DMPC.
In another scenario, my group wanted a rigger "DMPC" for their Shadowrun crew. I acquiesced, but really the character has become an NPC getaway driver so I can ferry them around. I don't have the character do anything that might assist with the party's decision making, though I am not above using the character to impart knowledge that may help the team figure something out.
As someone who has a bit of an Atlas DM mindset himself, its reassuring when my players thank me for running a session and say they enjoyed it. Hearing that they are enjoying the world they are exploring makes all the work and effort I put in worth it! I encourage players to make sure you do the same for your DM’s. They sacrifice their personal time to ensure that their players enjoy the game, so it can really go a long way to show them how much you appreciate their efforts! 🙂
I absolutely LOVE that the entire time you're referring to the sadist, your are showing clips of Chevy Chase. I grew up watching him, love his "characters" and was SO disappointed to hear about what a schmuck he was IRL... So this made me smile.
Dont forget the one that just changes the rules every 15 minutes, because there are homemade rules... but he didnt explained them. And once you see something happens and see the roll, you say.. oh, so its like that, ill do that. Then its not like that anymore. So you get confused and annoyed because everything you do may be easy or hard, and it has nothing to do with the action or the character, its just whatever the dm decides at that point.
The DM shouldn’t change the themes, encounters, vibe, etc. of the world. The DM should find players that enjoy the world as is.
Look. Im a bit of an usurper. I have a DMPC in every dampaign i run. I just dont let him go on The adventures, he's at whatever homebase the group has decided on.
I use him as a role play lubricator, its easier for my players to talk to me if im in a chatacter they're familiar with, and Mathek essentially acts as a quest board for the group.
in my mind the atlas DM is "a victim of his own success". he sits down, uses his brain and imagination to craft something special. something he can hook into the story, or the world or a microcosm inside his world. and he links the PC's to those scenarios and historical events. and it is the same effect a crafter has: i want to show you that i made something cool. thats what anybody does who creates something. kids show you their first paintings, you make something from wood or an origami figure - excitement of what you made WANTS to the shared with friends, because shared joy, is joy doubled. so the reason as to why they to it - i feel that all too well^^
I definitely used to be a Bully DM, though not to the extent I see on RPG horror stories. During the first campaign I ran, most of the group were first time players except for one, and none of us really knew each other that well. That one player that had more experience was a really big power gamer, and came with a really strong build that, as a new DM, I had a really hard time balancing and that was really frustrating. I definitely was harder on that player, generally didn't give loot that I knew would help their build, and tended to target them more often than other players - something which I justified at the time as me trying to keep things level but, again, I was just frustrated.
As I became a better DM, the players became better players, and we got to know each other better outside of the game, that all improved, and me and that player are pretty good friends now. All this to say, there are a lot of reasons why a DM can become a bad DM, and I think we all start out with bad habits that we need to be introspective about and work on. And, y'know, talk to each other about. That player could have been a really good resource for me early on if I just bothered to voice what I was struggling with.
In fairness to DMPCs, it's possible to make them really fun for the players. They're particularly useful if you have a small group of players, like 2-3. You can use them to fill roles that the other players simply didn't want to play(Usually the Healer), or to just move things along when the players have been stuck in front of a "Puzzle" that's basically just Tic-Tac-Toe for 2 hours, or Just be general "Common Sense" for he group, a way to tell the players IN GAME that what they're planning will likely have Negative Consequences without relying on telling them out of game and then expecting them to Metagame to sudden change their minds... They can also be used as a catalyst for Interesting Questlines, they might need help from their Friends to get something done, while that story being relatively unrelated to the other player's goals, this can lead the players to interesting places they would otherwise not go to.
The Trick is to NEVER Make them Particularly Social Characters, and make sure they have a Personality that's more Subdued, either they're shy, or Brooding, doesn't matter which, so long as they're not the type of person that likes to make Decisions for a group (They're not there to drive Group Decisions, they're there to Help them achieve them with whatever Niche skills they have that the players don't, If they ARE the "Solution" to a Puzzle or Problem, it should be up to the players to decide to use them for that, they should not Step up to take care of it if not asked... Unless it's been an hour banging their heads against a wall, and even then they should never be the ONLY Solution to the problem.). Still make them interesting and have distinctive personalities and quirks, but only in so far as the players are interested in them... If done right, these characters will be adored by your players, After all, who doesn't like an endearing and useful Sidekick?
One Example I can think of that I've used, was in a game where I had 2-3 players at a time(depending on time), they were part of a Weird Underground Mafia, and I gave them a Roster of "DMPCs" that they could choose to add to their party to round out their Combat Roles... At one point they had access to over a Dozen of these varied characters to choose from, and could switch em out basically anytime... But they always Picked the SAME one, "the Doc" AKA the "Clown Crow", a Mute Plague Doctor/"Vivisection Enthusiast" Drow who acted like an Absolute Clown every Chance he got (His Plague Mask that he never took off could Emote and that alone formed like 90% of his communication skills)... It's gotten to the point where every now and then the Doc has other shit he needs to do, like his profession as an Actual Doctor, and the players actually get SAD that he's Benched for whatever mission they happen to not have him for.
As an atlas dm i must also add that regular burnout is not a myth. Take care of urselves and take regular breaks especially around festive periods
This is the most positive video I've seen today. Thank you for it!
I've recently decided to DM for a group of coworker friends after a long hiatus. This was helpful in that I now have a mental checklist of behaviors to watch out for and avoid. Not that I'm worried, per se, but still good for self reflection.
Thanks for always generating great content.
(Also, I can't wait to put Ryoko's Guide to use! I'm SO excited!)
Helicopter bungee jumping? Bro is on another level
I guess I have a bit of Atlas tendencies, in the sense that I _do_ feel responsible for my players' happiness and enjoyment at my table. But to my credit, I am lazy enough to not over-prep, confident and capable enough to successfully "wing it" if necessary, and experienced enough to know that a happy table is not made by myself alone. Plus, I'm fortunate enough to have players who are responsible enough to come every week to play at my table, so I think it's only fair that I share in that responsibility to do my part. :D
I've had a DM who was a combination of the Atlas, the Sadist, and the Favouritist, all rolled into one. It was not a fun time, but the only other option was to be the DM myself (nobody else "knew how") or leave, and I wanted to play the game for once rather than be a DM. I'm also an introvert who gets uncomfortable around people I don't know, so it's a bit difficult to find a playgroup where I'm not the DM. Tangent aside, it's probably no surprise that particular campaign died.
On the usurper category, there is a way to run a "dmpc" the right way
The best example i can think of is the way Murph does it from NADDPOD, its an NPC that sticks with the party, usually weaker than the party and he uses them as a narrative device
BUT its never forced, it is usually someone that the party would like to stick along regardless, and he doesnt take the spotlight from them but only adds to the story
I think an NPC accompanying the party is different than a DMPC. I've run (D&D 3.5) an NPC with my party (a ranger) because they had no wilderness skills and needed to travel into the mountains and find an abandoned temple. I kept her a level behind the party, she didn't generally offer a valid opinion on anything outside nature/tracking/survival/etc. And the PCs controlled all aspects of treasure distribution. I also made sure to check with the players that I wasn't overstepping with her.
Different than another campaign I played in where the DMPC was basically an epic level character but still fighting alongside us and if we disagreed, we got dominated into compliance.
Sometimes I do what the usurper does and try to add a character to the party to help them. Difference is when I do it it's a Skyrim follower who just babbles on about getting their ass kicked and not really doing anything unless prompted by the other players. Typically happens when the party lacks a healer or utility caster
Exactly what i do aswell. The character will only be support, have skills they lack and interact with them only to bond, but never makes ANY decision for the players except in one single case: If they decided to go after the npc backstory and it comes to a moment of "revenge vs mercy" and at that moment they all decide to leave it up to the npc.
@0lloc0 That, or we're in combat. I don't give them their own actions or anything but if a mf gets within melee range for a reaction, npc will smack em with whatever's in hand for minimal damage. And with the given parameters of having the npc in the first place, npc is in the back of the party anyway (unless told to do something else) so atp there's really no avoiding doing it bc the party is either preoccupied or almost completely wiped. I won't do it if it'll kill the enemy though unless I ask the players ahead of time "hey this is what bro will do, are you cool with em getting the kill if it happens?" and they're cool with it
Also the first story was discussed on xp to level 3. Cool to see two great creators talk about it.
As a bit of an Atlas, the best advice that has helped me, especially with the sort of imposter syndrome doubt of whether the players are having fun or not, is to do just the quick survey at the end of session: asking if anyone had anything they liked, things they didn't like, questions, comments, concerns, etc.
Just keep it super casual and don't go in expecting everyone to speak up or have something to say. You'll start noticing that your players almost always only have good things to say, when they bring something up, even the things they didn't like are likely to complements (like hating an NPC, but really likeing how you played them sort of thing). It really helps to assuage those fears, at least for me.
Honestly i feel like most DM's resort to the type of things you hear in horror stories, just cause they feel insecure or aren't experience. Some are just D*cks though
You forgot about the 8th type: Me. Whenever I make you roll a dice I will also roll the same dice, and if we get the same number I will jump over the table and eat your dice.
That's a very specific fetish, but I don't judge.
@ judgement is the 9th toxic circle of DMing
That ain’t even toxic, that’s just deserved. Survival of the luckiest
I have had to use DMPCs before when low on players, but they were never really "in scenes" unless it was combat or when the character was translating for the group. I've used 2 different dmpcs and was constantly paranoid of having them
Thanks for this! I question myself, like we all do I think, if I am making an enjoyable experience. I can say today that I do not think I have any of these toxic traits as a DM. I am sure I make a ton of errors, but as a table, we all figure out how to work through any missteps by me or the players. To me, every game is a shared experience, not a me vs. them fight.
I have quit a group due to a railroading and controlling DM before. Making modifications to rules to unnecessarily nerf a legitimate and not over powered build from the beginning. Providing inadequate plot hooks with obvious traps and absolutely refusing to allow me to say my highly intelligent character who had a high perception and investigation roll refused to step into the obvious traps. He even got mad when I nat 20d my con save to get a permanent plot related curse because he couldn't argue that I should be cursed anyway (since it would be a clear reveal the roll was meant to be failed). I missed a session and another player controlled my character, rolled well on Sleep to knockout and de-escalate a fight (which is what I would have done) and he just said Nope doesn't work... No explanation and not within RAW due to the HP of the single target
Much respect for using a clip from Voltron's "Monsters & Mana" episode!
I sometimes make DmPc's to serve as a healer or a tank just so i can make combat more manageable...
i take almost no last hits, the character almost never talks, is more of a punching bag with some quest lines attached...
I like it when your left eyebrow and the tag on your hat match up like that - it looks like you have one Ming the Merciless eyebrow!
The little dark part of your hat looked like it was part of your eyebrow. I think the fey eyebrows is a good look for you.
i remember the few times i played with a different group with my then gf because i was nervous my super edgelord group would turn her off, the DM gave her such obvious favouritism and was a bit creepy towards her in game having bards at every tavern we went fawn over her so i started getting frustrated holding my temper not to call the the guy out for this bs and after a few sessions she didn't want to play DnD at all... i think the edgelords would have been a better option because at least i know the boys well
Love that you're using footage of the _Community_ D&D episode
I'm part of 3 different groups at the moment. one weekly, and two others that are occasionally set up on a sunday, or a whole weekend.
the weekly one has 3 players, and 3 potential DMs. every time we gather we decide which story gets played. all DMs are highly creative, and somewhat quirky in their own ways. and sometimes there is tension, but it's talked out.
the sunday group (still playing AD&D after all these years) had the DM sometimes include a NPC, but solely to support. his wive is playing with us, but I don't see much favouritism.
the weekend group is supposed to have three potential DMs, but so far only one is DMing, and his style is somewhere between bully and atlas. bully as in going down on PCS when he sees an ability as an unfair advantage, even though it's not a big deal and can easily subverted. but he has given us a lot of grief over nothing as of late, so we'll see what happens... but he's also a bit anxious about us enjoying the story. and right now, there is a creative block. so the question is what will come next.
we will try to talk it out about the bullying; maybe it comes from his experiences with the wahrhammer board game and the way that is played? who knows.
Atlas DM here. Having you describe me to a tee was mentally painful! LOL I'm thinking maybe you're one too since you got it so spot on!
The sadist is actually what DMs were expected to be in the early days of the game.
Ah yes, the good old times, when DMs weren't afraid of challening their players.
Upon discussion it can be one of the best DMS. Having unspeakable deeds done to an NPC and having the chance to take revenge can be amazing
@dionisiosmarinos4285 It's how that occurs that matters. Tomb of Horrors level stuff isn't fun - it's just sad.
@@Klaital1 Challenge does not include "you die no saving throw"
@@bjorn00000 But these days, most dms are too afraid to even have monsters use control abilities on players in fear of 'removing player agency' which is just total nonsense.
Damn, was not ready for the precision strike attack from the Atlus section.
Yeahhhhh, I might be a little bit on the Atlas side. Always want to make sure everyone is enjoying it. Thanks for the video
Concern about player fun? Check
Not even started DMing for real and already had a burnout period after 100h prep? Check
Relentlessly consume DnD content and products? Check
Spent money on DnD "improvements"? Check
I'm aware that I'm anxious when it comes to other people's validation of my skills but also I want to give players on my table the experience that I would like to have as a player. Dnd became my favourite hobby 4 years ago and since then I've learned a lot about what I and my friends like as players. This will be my first time Dming and I'm 100% Atlas Gming for the most part. Hurts to get reality checked but it's for the best. Thanks Buddy!
The only DMPC I have ever used was a Kenku Rogue. They were there for 2 reasons. The party was only 3 players running through a tough module, and they wanted a rogue.
I made them a Kenku, so that the only time they ever spoke was through mimicry, to aid in pushing points the players made home, or adding some funny moments.
They never took the spotlight, their turns were pre-rolled in combat so as to not slow things down. Overall. I think his inclusion went over very well.
This was such a well thought out video and point about how each doesnt respect a player including the atlas. very clever
The DM in the 1st one didn't even allow players to roll. They rolled for everything for everyone. It was an insane read.
My very first DM had 4/7 checked out. The controller, favouritist, usurper but mostly Atlas. It was fun for a wile.
I prefer to DM and I always look at new ways of doing things. I will occasionally introduce an NPC that travels with the group for a short time if the story allows. I make sure that the players know that he/she is not a permanent character, will not do any actions the players should be doing and will fight in the background if the capability is there (some don't) but there wont be any combat rolls made. Think of video games when the companion is fighting but not really doing any damage.
A few of examples: An NPC is in love with someone that was captured by a cult and is to be sacrificed and demands to go with the group. They know where to go and what the cult is about.
Another example: An NPC gives information to the players they were seeking. The NPC says they need to go to a remote location and he is only going to lead them there.
Another example: The party saves an NPC during an adventure. The NPC needs help to get away so they tag along with the party until they reach some sort of civilization.
These could make your world be more alive as well as add to an adventure or lead into a new one. When I ran the cult scenario the NPC was not meant to live and the sacrifice was supposed to happen. The player characters inadvertently made the sacrifice happen which brought an evil entity who became their big bad for a time. It should be used rarely but having the characters create their own enemies can work very well.
I really dont like all the hate for DMPCs. Like I get the critiques, but at the same time, some groups just find it really fun! NADDPOD is a great example of why this "DMPCs are inherently bad" mindset really hurts me. Every campaign has a new DMPC, and each time, the DMPC doesn't feel like they're stealing spotlight or moving the players in Brian Murphy (the DM's) favor. Even Matt Colville has used DMPCs before (in his one on one dnd games). Its not an inherently bad thing, you just read too many (probably fake) rpghorrorstories posts where the dm is trying to make chad thundercock join the party while the players have no say
I've used DMPCs before but I had a very specific ruleset for using them. They're there to fill a role the party wants but nobody wants to play, they don't make decisions for the party, they don't try to get kills, they have limited knowledge of what's going on when asked, they are the last to get loot if at all. My players thought it was really funny to have my dmpc talk to one of my pcs because they liked watching me swap voices and personalities back and forth. They also liked that I hated doing that.
I've played in a group for over 30 years where many of the players also GM. We've never had a problem with GMPC's usurping anything. I cannot speak for ANY other group though, but it's never been a problem for us. 😁
This is really worth cross-referencing with Ginny Di's video on "what type of player are you?", because there's a lot of overlap - GMs tend to respond to players and vice versa. Adversarial DMs trigger min-maxxers, instigators trigger controllers. The list goes on. For the Atlas DM, the worst is the passive player, the socialiser. All too often, the Atlas DM will freak out about the passive socialiser(s). This is what happens to me, for sure. I'm usually fairly comfortable as a DM, but having a couple of passive players has really put me on edge. I really freak out about whether they're actually enjoying the game.
A CURE FOR THE ATLAS DM is to play more. this reminds the person of how players have fun. share the dm ing. Move away from the idea of campaigns and towards the idea of scenarios/ adventures. Set adventures in a shared game world. have a mechanic for the party to switch pcs in and out depending on the dm. or have rules for the dms character to stick as an NPC while they run the adventure. e.g. the Dm's character may only gain generic items or treasure, gains experience to keep pace with the slowest progressing player character and so on.
I feel like when it comes to DMPCs, a lot of people just automatically assume they're bad regardless of context or table. In my Sunday game, we round robin DM so everyone at the table has their own PC to bring in after their tenure is up and the next player takes over the DM helm. However, on multiple occasions, when the DM does whatever it is they do to get their character out of the way for the arc, the players have chosen to drag that player character back in, putting the DM in the position of running a character and DMing. It can be challenging, and there is an art to it, but it is doable if the players are onboard and the DM uses discretion with how choices are made - generally hanging back and letting the rest of the party figure out what they want to do without input, only solving plot problems when called upon to do so by the rest of the party, and resolving their actions quickly when it is their turn. We've been running a game with this model without interruption since 2017 and this is fun for us.
I know that I am a Usurper, and if other people are, an easy fix is to be a support and only role play with other players
Edit: This might only work because I only have one player, and therefor no one for them to regularly role play with
I think the key with that is in session zero. A DM should share their anxiety or concerns as a part of the whole, since it is. Content doesn't matter if the boss is too sad to play.
Fix for the Atlas
As a player: let them know if you are enjoying their game. Give them ideas, even if they aren't fully fleshed out, about what you want to do or what items or feats whatever you want
As the dm: make the most perfect game possible, inevitably fail, play any using the very good game that you tried to make perfect, watch as you have fun without or even in spite of the plans you built. Expect the unexpected means to be ready for something you didn't account for to happen and is great advice for dnd like when players fall in love with the random npc you literally just made up
Watching this video just before a game made me so anxious
Sees shadows of all of these in my journey to be a good GM. Thanks for posting these tips.
When the Atlas' characteristics were talked about, I was feeling like I was staring in the mirror...
I've been the Atlas, but I did not compare myself with other DMs in the moment because I never knew any other DM in that time, it was my first time playing.
I burnt down and never DMed again after my first campaign. It was nice for being my first time playing, but it was too stressing.
Some years have passed and I'd totally do it again now that I learned a few things, if I had more free time.
I've had the Controller as my very first TTRPG experience. Out-and-out rewrote three of the four characters because he didn't care for how they were, and added a little bit of number four with his own little addition. Almost made my wife and I give up on TTRPGs on the spot.
I am an Atlas DM, and I am definitely guilty of the things mentioned for that section. It's admittedly a little draining, especially when I end up giving myself more and more campaigns to run.
I DM for a small group, 3 players, so i run a "DMPC". But he's kind of a loveable dumb dumb who is just there to fill in some gaps in the party's abilities. My players actually love this character. I've tried to write him off once and the party went out of their way to keep him around. He's nearly died several times and the party always saves him like he's just another valued member of the party. I realize this might be an exception that proves the rule, as it were. But DMPC/NPC tag along characters can be done in a way that isn't toxic. So long as the DMPC isn't stealing the spot light or saving the day all the time it's fine.
The character is a bullywug rogue that the party rescued from slavery and asked to join the party. I actually never planned on having him be a permanent part of the story. The party just nudged me into it, and now they're all pretty attached to the silly little frog man. lol
I was the Atlas DM because I felt I let my players down, lots of self doubt and that caused our campaign to fall through. Granted it did not help that 1-2 players would miss every session which massively fed into my doubts but that's all in the past now
I have a DM PC in the game I'm currently running, however it isn't something inconstsntly play, and is 95% extreme background, & mostly there to give quests and further a specific character's story and is intended to be the boss they fight and kill when they're around level 5
i've been called out. thanks for showing how i can improve 😅
I use DMPCs quite commonly. It's when i don't have enough players to fill out a four person party. There's nothing wrong with it, in the least, as long as the DMPCs are support characters who don't make big decisions or lead the party
Oh man the dmpc funny enough I had one in my game but I made one because there were only 2 pc and they wanted an extra character for party synergy so I made a monk with a cool side story when the players felt confident not needing an extra or we got more players and we got more so I made them a npc and a plot point but I didn’t make them an op self insert and the players loved it due to the plot shift it caused but I’m glade I didn’t mess up my first Champaign but I just lucked out
Atlas DM - Positive feedback is helpful here. Yes, criticism is okay, but often people forget to talk about the good things. Let this DM know what you would love to see more of. Engage, show enthusiasm. And offer them breaks! Time to be a player, or board game nights or other activities in which they might not feel as much pressure. The Atlas DM has the potential to be one of the best types of DM, with the genuine support of the other players.
The Big problem with atlas DM’s are the large amount of players that absolutely take all their work for granted and disrespect them. So many bad player behavior actively tells the dm them & the game their running aren’t good enough and it makes all the insecurity’s all the more real.
Not sure if the Useeper has to be the worst kind of DM if you think about it. If a dungeon master makes a DMPC, I've always thought if the following countermeasures.
1. Make encounters more challanging to account for an extra player.
2. Give the party the choice of a few npcs to choose to tag along with them, in case they need a specific role filled out
3. Have the dmpc be preoccupied during rp and puzzle solving segments to restrain yourself from interfearing.
Me at the start of this video:
"Alright, let's learn about all of these horrible DMs out there..."
Me at the end of this video:
😣"Why am I under attack?"
I love ALL DnD Shorts videos!
@ 0:10 "I've brought sources. From reddit."
Lmao, that is some top notch comedy there!
But seriously that's kinda the lowest hanging fruit there is.
I do have some DMPCS but they’re generally very adamant about helping the party when asked cause they’re hirelings, they’re strong sure but they can’t give everything away due to the contract they signed in the adventuring guild. Gotta balance em out.
Also a way to fix that is to have them mostly do something else to help the party (not just in combat)
The one time I tried to play a public game at the local gaming store the DM was relentlessly hitting on me while I didn't notice, and when it was pointed out by one of the other players, the DM physically turned away from me at the table, didn't address me for the rest of the session, and even ended combat mid way through the first round right before my turn so I didn't get to play. Unsurprisingly I haven't been back.
This said, having a video that players and Dm's can watch and refer to is always handy. But it is the group that just need to talk. all these conditions come from not talking or listening by someone in the group. Its a social game, so be social. everyone can talked it out and listen to make a great game (disclaimer some people will never talk or listen or both then that life, just remember a cheese rolling down a hill is a cheesy wheel and move on).
i feel extremely called out with that last one😂😂😂
I use DMPCs but only to fill in roles the party doesn't have, and they are charisma vacuums. Just there to heal or Scout, and then shuts up. They don't make suggestions but agree with the party.
I might -almost- be an Altas, but the thing is, my viewpoint is that the DM is already a player, all the NPCs are mine and I get to see the way the world changes when I go in to prepare the next session. My group has gone on record and said that if I need a break, I just need to say so and one of them will run a pre-written adventure for a bit. I worried that I was experiencing burnout at one point, but it turned out it was just that the particular pre-written adventure was just written poorly.
6:51 Whenever I give my party NPCs, or when they pick them up and I have to throw a character together, I always underlevel them. From a game perspective, I don’t want to take the spotlight from my players, so I’ll give them a character that can’t do as much as them. From a story perspective, they just picked up a common guard because he rolled pretty well and survived, there’s no way he’s at the same level as my players that have traveled across the country for adventures.
The DM that plays favorites isn't toxic unless they are doing it maliciously. There are actually styles of play that can cause this sort of thing to happen unless the DM is actively working to avoid it. Anxiety or simply having too many players can also cause a DM to focus on a particular player over the others. It doesn't mean they are toxic, it often just means they are struggling.
i have been the usurper, though not on purpose and i've since told me players that i ain't running another dm pc again even if they pull similar shenanigans. the story goes that i made throwaway npc that was stranded on a mountain and the players saved her, i made up a small backstory for her and that was supposed to be it, my players though really bonded with her and as they brought her back to town they asked if she wanted to join for one adventure that would align with the motivations id claimed she had, just a single sidequest really, i thought why not, she'll have the mage statblock and everything is fine. so the sidequest got completed and at this point they loved her, i had fleshed out more and she fit well into the party, i thought screw it, i'm gonna fuse her with another npc that would have showed up later and have her be that npc. so she takes a break from adventuring with them for a few months while sorting out her things and prepping stuff. while she's away my players keep finding ways to bring the story to be about her, asking powerful npc's about her and what she's doing, scrying on things they know she cares about to see if they can't help with her goals and the like. So comes the time when i had set for her to rejoin and she did, this time as an actual dmpc with a divination wizard statblock and a level matching the party, she stayed along for the ride the entire campaign and her story was as much a part of it as my players pc's were, i regret not a damn thing but i still wouldn't do it again
Haven't gotten to #7 yet but my expectations are pretty high if they're going to beat out the "unwanted touching" DM
I had one who was the opposite of favoritist. She made sure my character especially had the worst time, got attacked by all the spells of the enemy spellcasters, made up rules on the fly to give abilities to their bosses so that my spell failed, and finally when a boss was taken down everyone would get epic +3 swords but my wizard would get nothing better than a common or uncommon. I tried to work it out with them and when it did not work, walked the **** out.
Edit: Oww they were the bully lol.
Great video very informative
Been DMing for almost 40 years. I still struggle with the "Atlas" frame of mind.
I admit that I had run a DMPC on a couple of occasions, but they were only there to fill a role. Once we had enough people playing the filler would leave the party. I always hated the idea of the DM having an OP character and the rest of the party felt like they didn't matter.
I've played with a DM who had a favourite character / player (his GF) she was playing a druid, and tought that she needed a shield so she got the warcaster feat for free. Wanted to cast magic missile as a druid so she got a wand with infinite use.
Meanwhile I was playing a Barbarian so I was obviously stupid (I didn't dump intel), couldn't count so got less gold when it was time to divide loot and I handed too many gold when I had to pay a merchant and never got my change back, when I made compelling argument because we were obviously heading into a trap, the DM just ruled that I was too dumb to figure that out, so nothing that I said was actually said. Every athletic check were suddenly acrobatics for no reason at all.
I got to a point were I was not engaging in anything anymore, I didn't talk to NPC, didn't engage with the world in any way, not to open doors, not to investigate, I was basicelly saying nothing except when we were in combat to say what I was doing. I was planning on killing my character and move on, but life got in the way and we never got to schedule the next session, I'm "sad" that I didn't get to kill him so if they want to continue the story without technically they can play with my concept and ruin it
You know it's strange. When I first started getting into DND and then DMing, I constantly read about those poor "Forever Dms" suffering. About how they would rather play than DM and always had to prep so much. And I thought I was a weirdo, because I actually enjoy being the DM more than being the player. Sure I also overprep most of the time, but to build a story, build the NPCs, search for maps and print out tokens on the company printer (because I'm not a moron using my own money), that's pure joy for me. Now I tend to just try not to use the term Forever DM due to all the stigma it has.
Thanks to this video, I see myself showing some ‘controller’ traits. We’re in our 4th year of an epic campaign. It started wide open, like a sandbox. But we’re approaching the BBEG. They’re in a linear dungeon and there are no more side quests; only the singular plot. I do think they’re enjoying the play, but now am wondering if, even in this final 2-layer dungeon, if there is room to make more opportunity for player agency.
Bully and Favroutist are going along when the other Playerss do not also court the favoured Player.
If you want a DMPC, they should to focus on support, healing, and buffing abilities the players, or asking the players questions that lead players towards an answer or prompt the players to explain their thinking in character.
This video has made me realize that I might be a Usurper DM... by accident. A real "Road Paved To Hell With Good Intentions". I'm a 4 year veteran DND player, but a first-time DM and in my naivety I had an undead minion join the party after they gave him a new body and the group (all of them new players) really loved him. In my defence, I was only planning on making him a temporary companion, a safety net for my equally new players before they get to bigger things. But now that I've seen this video and realizing this is a serious problem, I'm starting to realize maybe I shouldn't have brought him back after the opening stinger.
I'd like to think I'm playing responsibly with him, but not only is that a biased take, it also makes me self-conscience that I might be ruining the game without anybody realizing it by playing as a Divination Wizard DMPC. Granted, that self-consciences is partly why I have the character take a more passive approach to combat, but by this point he kind of became a mainstay and I don't know how to remove him from the party in a meaningful way without it feeling like unsatisfying bullshit.
I also kind of accidentally fell into the Favouritist Type by giving a Drake Warden a homebrew magic item without realizing just how powerful base Drake Warden already was. It was a magic item you gave to your Drake Companion that let you add your Wisdom modifier to the damage of it's Infused Strikes. It was a decision that I still regret to this day and much like my own DMPC it's a mistake I want to correct, but not at the expense of my player's fun.
TL;DR: I am an inexperienced DM that makes inexperienced decisions and now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.