I check the windings in the motor for my Bradford Lathe. I also provide some simplified (read right-ish) information about the electrical nature of the motor.
I don't know what you're doing nowadays, but this was a great video. For what it's worth, your video is the number 1 return in Google for troubleshooting a 9 lead the phase motor. Thank you for a very concise explanation!
Your video just taught me that the hvac tech charged me for a new motor when the motor I had was perfectly fine. Then he tried to leave with the "bad" motor. The tech was trying to steal a perfectly good $800 motor.
One thing to remember, the motor also has bearings at the front and back of it that can go bad and seize, the windings may be good but the bearings go bad. Lol
I had an instructor and AC repair man that pick up ""BAD AC compressor's and motor's off the side of the road". Take them home and test them, the majority were good.
Beware, lousy companies do this often. A "friend" sold a customer an entire HVAC system when his old one was only 3 years old. He just wanted money for drugs and he's where he belongs now, in jail.
@@ScottDavis-d2gif they are not shorted to ground you won’t know for sure unless power is applied. It could be locked up mechanically but electrically it’s good
Pretty close. However, you are not bypassing three of the coils when you wire for low voltage. You are placing the coils in parallel, so that even though you are running half the voltage, you are running double the current, as indicated on the name plate of the motor. This must be fact, because the motor can produce the nameplate horsepower (wattage) with either the high voltage or low voltage configuration. This is similar to a transformer. The VA is constant (Volt-Amps, or Watts). One side may be high voltage/low current, while the other side is low voltage/high current, but when the voltage and current are multiplied together on either side, you will the wattage which is constant.
I appreciate the information, it helped me to determine the correct numbers on the wires . The little metal tags were very hard to read . So i used this method and checked the condition of the windings . . What a learning experience especially trying to get the motor to run properly with a phase convertor. I going to buy a vfd and use it on the bridge port mill. Thanks
Just remember to check rotation direction. If it's spinning backwards just swap L1 with L2 OR L2 with L3 OR L3 with L1. Basically just swap any 2 and it will change direction.
HA! My Bridgeport just died and IDK if it's the motor or the static convertor; that's why I'm here. Oh well, I got 20 years out of it and only paid 100$ for it, I'm doing good no matter what the issue is...
Hello there, thanks for making this video. I just wanted to comment about the inductance values you mentioned. Like you said it’s helpful if the value in Henry’s is known. If it is then the inductive reactance can be calculated by XL = 2(pi)fl, then that value can be squared off along with the resistance value and added together then square rooted. The result should give us the Impedance value.
Shouldn't you typically use high voltage when testing impedance between phase to ground? This will give you a more accurate reading of the insulation on the wires
Good video. All coils are used irregardless of the supply Voltage. High voltage uses the +3 method for connecting the leads together and low voltage connects the windings in parallel with each lead connected to 1 and 7, 2 and 8 and 3 and 9 with 4-5-6 connected together just like 10-11-12 are from the factory. Hig voltage connects windings in series.
Good explanation. Helped me ohm out a bad motor to communicate to our electrician what exactly is wrong. In our case, 1-4 and 3-6 short to ground due to overheating. It was suggested to me to do continuity of coils to ground first..eliminates the need to do other steps.
really good video testing using a multimeter. Sadly i was hoping for a video as good as this video was made using a digital insulation resistance tester
Thanks for sharing your knowledge this has been the most helpful video I've watched explaining this. Would this same method as far as separating the windings, be used for checking insulation resistance using a megohmmeter instead of a DMM?
Being an apprentice in motor controls, I ask for low voltage, why do they want you to short 1&7,3&9 and 2&8? Why not connect to 7,9,8? Thanks for your excellent teach!
so is that mean there are 6 separate winding in there? I have heard of delta and Y connection but not star, but of course I got a lotttt to learn. thank you for your vedio
If you look at 3:29 there is a diagram. Each of the squiggle lines is a coil, and your motor should have the wires or terminals numbered. Use the diagram and your numbers should match mine in the diagram. There is another kind of 3 phase arrangement called delta, and you need to check the motor data plate to find out what kind you have. The way to check a delta motor is different.
Resistance check lead to lead, find the two connected to one another. If there is is a low resistance between any two, they're connected, and 180 degrees apart. Tie/tape them together, then grab another pair. You're just looking for three pairs with low ohms.
Easy there Semantics Steven. I said 9 LEAD motor as in 9 contact points coming out. Sure there is an internal tie point, but I don't have access to it. Some motors have all 12 exposed, that would be a 12 lead.
Hi everyone. can someone tell me what could be causing high amps on two legs only ??? motor voltage = 460 motor amps rating = 283 Line 1 voltage to ground = 278 Line 2 voltage to ground = 281 line 3 voltage to ground = 280 Motor connection are secure , there is no loose connections. we Megged the motor and cables and shows over 2k megaohms . motor amps when running Phase A amps = 280 Phase B amps = 292 Phase C amps = 285 as you can see only one phases is below the name plate rating but still little bit to high. There is no enough voltage imbalance to explain the high current on the two phases . why is the high current in two phases only ??? motor was rebuilt recently. Anybody has any idea what our problem is ??? Any suggestions ???
thanks very good. i am from Algeria. i am glad to see you . we'll I Will ask you about. when we make start high power . star low power. and when make delta high power .and dalta low power . and thank you very much.
Pretty good video but your wrong about eliminating the first set of coils when wiring in low volts. You didn’t mention that you jump 4, 5, & 6 which puts the first set of coils in parallel with the second set of coils instead of eliminating them.
Thought the same thing... I think you create another wye configuration with 1,2,3, and then parallel it to 7,8,9 fixed wye configuration. Result is two wyes in parallel for lower voltage.
THEN ONLY THINGS YOU FORGOT IS THAT YOU FORGOT TO MENTION WHAT CABLES YOU CONNECT TO THE POWER SOURCE TO MAKE IT RUNNING AND BE SURE HOW TO CHECK THE VOLTAGE RUNNING THE MOTOR., BUT IS A VERY GOOD VIDEO THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION
It's a 3 phase motor, your just changing the voltage setup, not the location of the windings, so it's manufactured as 3 Phase and cannot run single phase.(either 230 V or 460V depending on how you configure the wiring of the coils)
Hello my friend , I have one motor with 9 terminal , 30 kw. 440 v . Can I applying the three phase to the terminal 1, 2, 3. Directly by mean it will be soft start ? Or I must connect star delta circuit for soft staring
Only demonstrating principles on camera. I did the whole procedure about 3 times, on multiple contact points and the whole shebang. Yes, make sure you chassis contact is good.
the difference is parallel or series in the windings connections. as a "DC" guy you should well understand this. you are not "shorting together" a damn thing.
I understand your theoretical side but when you measure practically how do you know which wire is which, looks very confusing did not understand your practical side.
So, you would probably be able to use multimeter readings to find the individual windings, but determining WHICH set was WHICH winding (the order matters) is beyond me. The few times I've done it all the wires were marked and the data plates were correct. Sorry, maybe someone here can help. You might also ask the Skookum subreddit.
My theory is: connect any two lines on your leads using continuity. If you hear a beep, take one lead off and touch every other wire. No beep means you've got a 1-4, 2-5 or 3-6 winding. Wire nut them together n throw them aside. Do the same for them all. If you get a beep with three wires, you've found the wye. This won't work with a motor that's causing problems in the field. Correct me if my theory is flawed
For a Y-wound motor, to identify totally unknown cable numbers, firstly you would use a resistance meter to identify the three low-resistance (a few ohms) pairs 1-4, 2-5, 3-6, and the central 7-8-9 triplet. Apply arbitrarily labels to the wires 7, 8 and 9 for future reference. Then, we can identify which pairs are which using a (low voltage) signal generator and an oscilloscope. To identify the pair we will later label as 1-4, firstly join the two wires 8 & 9, and applying an AC signal across the resulting 7 to 8//9 coil. You will then observe the largest inductively-coupled AC signal (using the oscilloscope) across pair 1-4.The phase of this observed AC signal, as compared to the applied signal, will tell you the polarity of the 1-4 coil winding. (i.e. which end is pin 1, and which end is pin 4) (NB: If you don't have the proper test equipment, the above procedure can be done by sparking the coils with a battery, and looking at the direction of the twitches of the needle of an analogue multi-meter) This procedure would then be repeated to identify coils 2-5 and 3-6 respectively. This procedure can't tell you the direction of motor spin, so there is one final step. Finally, actual 3-phase mains AC can be applied to the suitably connected motor. If the motor then runs backwards that just means that two of your phase connections need reversing.
good info, but this really doesn't tell you shit. As the voltage a DMM is too low to do any real good. You need a megger {mega ohm meter} that operates at 500v or so to know if you have any insulation break down.
I don't know what you're doing nowadays, but this was a great video. For what it's worth, your video is the number 1 return in Google for troubleshooting a 9 lead the phase motor. Thank you for a very concise explanation!
Thank you for explaining this properly, took me 6 videos to find you.
Love the step by step instructions on how to check the windings. It really helps make sense of all the "book learning" I've done
Your video just taught me that the hvac tech charged me for a new motor when the motor I had was perfectly fine. Then he tried to leave with the "bad" motor. The tech was trying to steal a perfectly good $800 motor.
Is it running now?
One thing to remember, the motor also has bearings at the front and back of it that can go bad and seize, the windings may be good but the bearings go bad. Lol
I had an instructor and AC repair man that pick up ""BAD AC compressor's and motor's off the side of the road". Take them home and test them, the majority were good.
Beware, lousy companies do this often. A "friend" sold a customer an entire HVAC system when his old one was only 3 years old. He just wanted money for drugs and he's where he belongs now, in jail.
@@ScottDavis-d2gif they are not shorted to ground you won’t know for sure unless power is applied. It could be locked up mechanically but electrically it’s good
This is the video I have been looking for for years. Thank you for putting this out. It really helped me.
You simplified this so well! Thank you
Pretty close. However, you are not bypassing three of the coils when you wire for low voltage. You are placing the coils in parallel, so that even though you are running half the voltage, you are running double the current, as indicated on the name plate of the motor. This must be fact, because the motor can produce the nameplate horsepower (wattage) with either the high voltage or low voltage configuration. This is similar to a transformer. The VA is constant (Volt-Amps, or Watts). One side may be high voltage/low current, while the other side is low voltage/high current, but when the voltage and current are multiplied together on either side, you will the wattage which is constant.
This is correct
When wiring for lower voltage , you are wiring a delta configuration, and wye configuration for higher voltage
I appreciate the information, it helped me to determine the correct numbers on the wires . The little metal tags were very hard to read . So i used this method and checked the condition of the windings . . What a learning experience especially trying to get the motor to run properly with a phase convertor. I going to buy a vfd and use it on the bridge port mill. Thanks
Just remember to check rotation direction. If it's spinning backwards just swap L1 with L2 OR L2 with L3 OR L3 with L1. Basically just swap any 2 and it will change direction.
HA! My Bridgeport just died and IDK if it's the motor or the static convertor; that's why I'm here. Oh well, I got 20 years out of it and only paid 100$ for it, I'm doing good no matter what the issue is...
Good explanation, simple. Thank for taking the time to share your knowledge.
I learned a new thing today. This is the first time I know this. Thank you very much, Sir.
Thanks for sharing with some of us trying to learn the field!!
You saved me from spending like $800 on a new motor. Thank you!
Hello there, thanks for making this video. I just wanted to comment about the inductance values you mentioned. Like you said it’s helpful if the value in Henry’s is known. If it is then the inductive reactance can be calculated by XL = 2(pi)fl, then that value can be squared off along with the resistance value and added together then square rooted. The result should give us the Impedance value.
Great video with explanation, thank you for drawing the diagram FIRST!!!👌🏿
Shouldn't you typically use high voltage when testing impedance between phase to ground? This will give you a more accurate reading of the insulation on the wires
Great video! This will help me a lot in class.
Good video. All coils are used irregardless of the supply Voltage. High voltage uses the +3 method for connecting the leads together and low voltage connects the windings in parallel with each lead connected to 1 and 7, 2 and 8 and 3 and 9 with 4-5-6 connected together just like 10-11-12 are from the factory. Hig voltage connects windings in series.
Excellent video, super clearly explained!
Good explanation. Helped me ohm out a bad motor to communicate to our electrician what exactly is wrong. In our case, 1-4 and 3-6 short to ground due to overheating. It was suggested to me to do continuity of coils to ground first..eliminates the need to do other steps.
Live. Vibe. Lasers. H&#
Hands down, best video! 🔥
Excellent explanation!! Congrats!
Thank you for this very clear understanding now.
Very clear and instructive video . Thank you so much !
really good video testing using a multimeter. Sadly i was hoping for a video as good as this video was made using a digital insulation resistance tester
Well explained dual voltage configuration !
I was always told you need a megger to do this test correctly
Great video! It's been awhile. Good refresher. I'm a subscriber!
Thanks for sharing your knowledge this has been the most helpful video I've watched explaining this. Would this same method as far as separating the windings, be used for checking insulation resistance using a megohmmeter instead of a DMM?
many thanks for this clip.
just OL in multimeter stands for ''OPEN LOPE'', not ''OPEN LINE''.
Pretty sure it's Over Limit. (out of range for the meter)
Being an apprentice in motor controls, I ask for low voltage, why do they want you to short 1&7,3&9 and 2&8? Why not connect to 7,9,8? Thanks for your excellent teach!
so is that mean there are 6 separate winding in there? I have heard of delta and Y connection but not star, but of course I got a lotttt to learn. thank you for your vedio
That’s actually a little high for resistance on an ac 480 or 600 volt motor it should really only read 3 ohms or less most normal reading is .5 ohms
Beautiful
I didn't see clear the way you are testing
What can I do to get it clear
Is there a tolerance for deviation of resistance from winding to winding for the single coils?
Bloody awesome Video man! So clearly explained that even a dumb mechanical engine Bilder like me can understand that electronic witchcraft 😂🎉
Thank you sir. More videos please...
Very good explaining! Thank you
Thank you for that sharing sir.
Great explanation!!
thanks for sharing ur knowledge.
How can u determine the beginning and ending of the coil?
If you look at 3:29 there is a diagram. Each of the squiggle lines is a coil, and your motor should have the wires or terminals numbered. Use the diagram and your numbers should match mine in the diagram.
There is another kind of 3 phase arrangement called delta, and you need to check the motor data plate to find out what kind you have. The way to check a delta motor is different.
I appreciate that ,thanks
It'a seems to me that it is a double triangle, sort of 1 in the plain e 1 in 3 dimensions, like a pyramid.
How can we determine without label? How can we know if this is 1-4,2-5,3-6 etc. I mean all winding pair are without label
Resistance check lead to lead, find the two connected to one another. If there is is a low resistance between any two, they're connected, and 180 degrees apart. Tie/tape them together, then grab another pair. You're just looking for three pairs with low ohms.
Excellent tutorial
You actually have 1-12 but 10,11,and 12 are tied internally as a wye. Which is the other end of 7,8and 9.
Easy there Semantics Steven. I said 9 LEAD motor as in 9 contact points coming out. Sure there is an internal tie point, but I don't have access to it. Some motors have all 12 exposed, that would be a 12 lead.
Nice reply to pher8487 , you explained it great for us regular maintenance guys who work in the real world.
im confused ( as normal ) on the plate it showed 4-5-6 connected and the 1-7 2-8 3-9 connected so surely 456 should be in the centre and not 789 .
erm maybe your was is the second diagram , ive watched this video 3 times not i best watch it a few more .
Why didn’t you get a megger I just got the Klein and this thing is great.
very well explained.
Hi everyone.
can someone tell me what could be causing high amps on two legs only ???
motor voltage = 460
motor amps rating = 283
Line 1 voltage to ground = 278
Line 2 voltage to ground = 281
line 3 voltage to ground = 280
Motor connection are secure , there is no loose connections.
we Megged the motor and cables and shows over 2k megaohms .
motor amps when running
Phase A amps = 280
Phase B amps = 292
Phase C amps = 285
as you can see only one phases is below the name plate rating but still little bit to high.
There is no enough voltage imbalance to explain the high current on the two phases .
why is the high current in two phases only ???
motor was rebuilt recently.
Anybody has any idea what our problem is ???
Any suggestions ???
Thanks but run in star Delta?how to wire
Dear friend, if you have this motor connection box but without number or any other identification ?? And if you have 12 lead 3 phase motor ??, thanks
thanks very good. i am from Algeria. i am glad to see you . we'll I Will ask you about.
when we make start high power . star low power.
and when make delta high power .and dalta low power .
and thank you very much.
When checking from # 8 line to other coils do you check each wire separately or both for example coil 1 and 2 together?
Thanks. I finally know what OL stands for. Lol.
Open Line :-)
Pretty good video but your wrong about eliminating the first set of coils when wiring in low volts. You didn’t mention that you jump 4, 5, & 6 which puts the first set of coils in parallel with the second set of coils instead of eliminating them.
Thought the same thing... I think you create another wye configuration with
1,2,3, and then parallel it to 7,8,9 fixed wye configuration. Result is two wyes in parallel for lower voltage.
Helped me on my test
Great video!
Appreciate.thanks
thanks so much.....Paul
Great tutorial
THEN ONLY THINGS YOU FORGOT IS THAT YOU FORGOT TO MENTION WHAT CABLES YOU CONNECT TO THE POWER SOURCE TO MAKE IT RUNNING AND BE SURE HOW TO CHECK THE VOLTAGE RUNNING THE MOTOR., BUT IS A VERY GOOD VIDEO THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION
If the wires is not marked how to determine which wire is 1-4 3-6 etc??
thank for scheme
Wouldn't you have continuity between leads 1,2,3??
Good job
At school they have us megg between 1 and 4. Doesn't that seem wrong?
hello sir i wanna ask, how to determine whether the winding is connected wye or delta using ohm meter if the nameplate has been painted?
The Fluke 87-V has no rivals.
Good afternoon , is it motor baldor?
👍👍
So is low voltage 240 single phase or 240 3 phase?
It's a 3 phase motor, your just changing the voltage setup, not the location of the windings, so it's manufactured as 3 Phase and cannot run single phase.(either 230 V or 460V depending on how you configure the wiring of the coils)
You need to use a megger for a AC Gen.
What of the leads had no numbers????? Please do a video on that 🙏
That indeed would an interesting video.
Great video! Out of curiosity, what would you do if non of the wires were marked?
Ohm, continuity, between all 9 leads then roll the dice
Hello my friend , I have one motor with 9 terminal , 30 kw. 440 v . Can I applying the three phase to the terminal 1, 2, 3. Directly by mean it will be soft start ?
Or I must connect star delta circuit for soft staring
Which terminal I can connect to star connection and which terminal I will connect to delta connection.
Aren't you supposed to megger the insulation?
You should be using a megga to test insulation resistance to the ground of the motor not just ohm meter
if a motor is shorted to ground a regular meter will read it.
electroboom ha ha ...today i learned something.. are you gonna do a video ho to meg a motor?
👍🏻
Awesome
Im rewinding motor 5.5 kw . U1 - U2 :14 ohm . Running delta connection no load 1.13 amp and after that motor burn
Awesome.great
You didn't see if it had good contact to the bare metal. I would have thought you'd touch another part of the case since you are dangling it about.
Only demonstrating principles on camera. I did the whole procedure about 3 times, on multiple contact points and the whole shebang. Yes, make sure you chassis contact is good.
the difference is parallel or series in the windings connections. as a "DC" guy you should well understand this. you are not "shorting together" a damn thing.
I understand your theoretical side but when you measure practically how do you know which wire is which, looks very confusing did not understand your practical side.
Each wire has numbers on the insulation
How would you be able to check if you did not know the cable numbers ?
So, you would probably be able to use multimeter readings to find the individual windings, but determining WHICH set was WHICH winding (the order matters) is beyond me. The few times I've done it all the wires were marked and the data plates were correct. Sorry, maybe someone here can help. You might also ask the Skookum subreddit.
My theory is: connect any two lines on your leads using continuity. If you hear a beep, take one lead off and touch every other wire. No beep means you've got a 1-4, 2-5 or 3-6 winding. Wire nut them together n throw them aside. Do the same for them all. If you get a beep with three wires, you've found the wye.
This won't work with a motor that's causing problems in the field.
Correct me if my theory is flawed
For a Y-wound motor, to identify totally unknown cable numbers, firstly you would use a resistance meter to identify the three low-resistance (a few ohms) pairs 1-4, 2-5, 3-6, and the central 7-8-9 triplet. Apply arbitrarily labels to the wires 7, 8 and 9 for future reference. Then, we can identify which pairs are which using a (low voltage) signal generator and an oscilloscope. To identify the pair we will later label as 1-4, firstly join the two wires 8 & 9, and applying an AC signal across the resulting 7 to 8//9 coil. You will then observe the largest inductively-coupled AC signal (using the oscilloscope) across pair 1-4.The phase of this observed AC signal, as compared to the applied signal, will tell you the polarity of the 1-4 coil winding. (i.e. which end is pin 1, and which end is pin 4)
(NB: If you don't have the proper test equipment, the above procedure can be done by sparking the coils with a battery, and looking at the direction of the twitches of the needle of an analogue multi-meter)
This procedure would then be repeated to identify coils 2-5 and 3-6 respectively.
This procedure can't tell you the direction of motor spin, so there is one final step.
Finally, actual 3-phase mains AC can be applied to the suitably connected motor. If the motor then runs backwards that just means that two of your phase connections need reversing.
how to convert it in 1 phase?
Armature Hour (Or 7.54 minutes).
Hello from iraq well done
How about 12leds and 6leds and 3leds
good info, but this really doesn't tell you shit. As the voltage a DMM is too low to do any real good. You need a megger {mega ohm meter} that operates at 500v or so to know if you have any insulation break down.
6:36 - Wrong you switch between a wye and a delta you are still using all of the coils
For low voltage , double star coil configuración is used .
The numbers 1-9 are on the leads ?
I want to macein
malayalam treshlation
lol why are you comparing yourself to the master that is electroboom, lol.
Who the hell has a motor with 9 leads. How about doing one with just 3 leads? Unbelievable.
Great explanation, Great video!
Thank you sir. More videos please...