How a clutchless racing transmission works
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2024
- Broomy from Rotary Race Cars gives us a quick rundown of how a clutchless racing transmission works.
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Shifting with that shifter sounds like you're loading a machine gun.
Yeah, what a beautiful heavy-mechanical noise :D
@@CamTarn When it is full of oil you will not notice.
That's almost a pity. I *want* my car to sound like that :D
Andy Walker i drove a sequential gearbox racing car and you hear a lot.
Sounds like racking the slide of a rifle, and I like it,
My goodness… The amount of engineering and workmanship to bring these mechanical pieces of art to life is astonishing! We are living in the tail end of mechanical artistry.
I had a Doug Nash in my car for about a decade. If you ever drive a car with one of these, you will never know what its like to truly speed shift. I can see that Mike Long an company have made some upgrades to keep the main shaft from moving around and those splined plates for the end are pretty impressive. If you have an automatic, even with a brake, you have no idea how hard a car hits with a clutch. God Bless the manual transmissions and the people that drive them, it truly is the best.
Remember when you HAD to know something to drive a car? If you don't drive a stick shift as part of the experience, you might as well get a hybrid. I wouldn't buy a sports car, unless it has a manual transmission, and a clutch.
Had is past tense. I still do@@vincentrobinette1507
Launching with a brake in a powerglide is like being shot out of a jello slingshot. It feels slushy but you're definitely leaving. I've always wanted to get a Jerico box but it's hard enough paying the bills and it's even harder to justify the money to the wife lol. I too think a real racecar should be a gear slammer.
I can honestly say I had no idea how it worked. I 'thought' I had an idea, but this was great. Thanks for the insight.
Motorcycle transmissions have worked this way for 80 years.
@@timhallas4275 Here's mine (in the link) I built myself 35 years ago, there a bit more to this type of gearbox (overriding) than this car guy knows, he blathers on on and on without really explaining anything.
th-cam.com/video/4UMjMUCW0Go/w-d-xo.html
@@Peter-V_00 That's what I'm talking about. was that 5 or 6 gears? I forgot to count the shifts.
@@timhallas4275 Six, what's interesting that made it all work was I had to "split" a gear so it could be in two places at once, a bit abstract to explain I guess I should make a video of how it works.
Growing up, I called that shifter a Vertigate. We called that type of transmission a Ram-Shift. If you let off the gas, or, the engine stops, it looks like the transmission would throw itself into neutral. Does the shifter lock, or is it designed to decouple, to help maintain control of the car? For drag racing, I prefer a disconnection, to keep from skidding the drive wheels. Definitely NOT for street use. Any transmission with straight cut gears, were called Rock Crushers, because of the distinct whine, accompanied with a rocky sound. Noisy, but very durable. The straight cut gears don't produce the axial thrust loads that the quieter helix gears did. Beautiful transmission! Thanks for the video, My first look inside one of those.
you can see the dog teeth have ramps on the back, thats why it slips into neutral when coasting.
Great video! Love these types of how-to vids and it was explained very well, not too complicated to understand.
Super cool explanation, finally understood how a dog box works and why it doesn‘t have syncho rings
When I raced my 1970 SS 396/402 Chevelle in the 80's, I used a Hurst Super Shifter 3 in my car. It had very short throws
and a separate shifter with a Lock-Out reverse lever. Back then there was a company that made a 4-Speed in line shifter.
You pushed it forward for first, pulled it straight back for second and so forth, but you could do the same thing in reverse to
downshift. My question is why doesn't lenco make their shifter so you can downshift all of your gears like the old inline shifter?
Because a Lenco is not A transmission. It is a STACK of separate planetary transmissions and power flow to and through them and "shifting" must be progressive. You're not "shifting gears". You're "engaging" progressively higher-geared planetary combinations and ratios.
4:20
That sound, for a gear selecting, identical with what they did use in NFS game franchise to option selection... and it's basically 420... this video couldn't be any better
Wow, another thing learned. Awesome gate mechanism, very unusual to anyone not involved.
That was informative and understandable. Thank you for sharing!
To be honest, I learnt two things here.
1. the racing transmission is DIFFERENT.
2. How it works.
Thanks buddy. Keep up the good work.
My professors probably skipped on many other things I needed to learn, so will keep an eye for your videos.
Interesting. I had not seen inside one before.
People complaining about clutchless (you can shift withput a clutch), and I think they missed describing the "sliders" a bit better.
They look like they are two pieces. Each piece, on the dog side has one edge of the dog with a square edge, the other with a taper.
How I think it works, is if it is in first, then the first slider is engaged. If the then put it in secnd, the second slider is also engaged. This causes the first gear to go faster than the slider and it pushes itself out of gear on the tapered edge, and the same through the gears
If it didn't work like this, you could be in two gears at once or there would be a period in the shift where there was a neutral between the gears.
It also means that the transmission disengages on overrun.
everyone is now a transmission expert
Any Fool Boost video is a good video! 👍
@@mareksumguy1887 I'm simply taking the piss, numbnuts
Straight cut gears, bet the whine sounds like heaven.
Used a heel and sequential in a corsa RWD I built for rallying. Totally fantastic. Wish I had one in my s2000. Why Honda went H pattern is beyond me. If they ever replace the S2K I do hope they go sequential.
A kick ass Gearbox = FULLBOOST
Wow this brought back memories
You just cant beat a dog box, the multi selector levers are defiantly the best way as well. The rotating selector rod adaptations are just are not as fast. I had an Impala Straight line and that sent many 3 speeds to an early grave.. I finally gave up on straight line shifters after 3 top loaders and several rebuilds behind a healthy SBC. The hours spent making and modifying syncros, well when you don't have money but you have access and time and can use a lathe and a mill. The MR Gasket I had was a nightmare to get just so it wouldn't split syncros but still change quickly.
When is the August podcast due, looking forward.
Cheers
thanks for showing us how this works! very cool
As a mechanical engineering student, I'm just speechless. The amount of effort of mechanical design, material science, thermodynamics and even fluid mechanics calculations-design while the process of making this gearbox just amazes me. It's just beautiful, kinda art in my eyes.
Did we really see the same video? I have seen the simpliest and the toughest kind of gearbox, primarily used just for fast racing upshifting and bad in everything else. A few massive straight cutted wheels, spinning in oil, shifted by a strong hand. The art of mechanical engineering is 8 speed ZF or Aisin auto transmission I mean ;)
@@milanrobich5186 I don't know if you ever tried to design any kind of gearbox by yourself, seems like not at all, making such a reliable, proper working and efficient gearbox for specialized purpose or not is so hard to do and took really long time, study, research etc. btw I didn't remember that I said zf or aisin is not art, they are also great art pieces in my eyes.
Mr. Gasket was the originator of that shifter mechanism, made almost 50 yrs ago. It was a great unit. Can't find them anymore.
I love the sound of switching gears like in this video.
Would love to try a dogbox or basically something like this.
Rotary counter weight right there on the table
That was an awesome video boys, thoroughly enjoyed every moment of it. 👍
When is another episode of Project Redline coming?
"Clutchless". Just like how the new SkyActiv is "Compression ignition"....with a damn sparkplug...
This is as clutchless as a transmission gets
@@elioliver9554 CVT's are closer to clutch-less I'd argue.
Regardless I don't see the hate for Mazda's innovation. They are doing an amazing job
no syncroclutches.
Clutchless shifting. What don't you understand?
@@fokjohnpainkiller Ain't hating, just stating the obvious. A clutch is a clutch. It's like dysons Cinetic Vacuums being "completely filterless". Even though there are two filters after the motor. A filters a filter.
If it walks like a 🦆. Talks like a 🦆. It's probably a 🦆.
8:06 i could watch that on loop forever...
wierd ASMR....
icykickflip 👍only for real gear heads
I've never seen this trans before....What a great design! Case splits in half longitudinally and everything is just right there. Simple = Best. The only complex thing about it is that gated shifter. I've been in, out, and through perhaps a dozen automatics and 2 manual transmissions and after seeing this vid I hate them all. lol
You might un-nerve yourself if not expecting it the first time you rebuild a standard transmission. I still distinctly remember the sound all those rollers made falling out of the cluster as they landed on the bench... did not think it would be like that, then sh!t gets real.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has done that!😝🤣😁
Would be interesting to see a comparison of this type of gearbox and a sequential gearbox with straight cut gears. Both have dog engagement and if both have straight cut gears are there more differences than the gear linkage?
You don't have to back off at all to change gear, but this box looks like it doesn't do downshifts. Ramps on the back of the dogs will spit it out of gear if the engine slows or seizes. Drag box only.
I don't think there is. They have a video on F1 transmission and it's just that, a sequential dog-box. The only difference is the forks are mounted on a shifting barrel.
there is one interesting difference I noticed, typically a race car gearbox inputs on the layshaft and transmits to the mainshaft, this box transmits to the mainshaft, down to the layshaft and back to the mainshaft for 1 2 3 4. The bonus is that 5th acts as a gearless shaft for maximum efficiency when it is needed the most (in drags at least)
@@alexjohnward I think it just gets rid of an extra failure point, at the expense of having 1:1 ratio (could do it with gears), and efficiency.
It looks like if someone REALLY REALLY felt the need to make this usable for onroad applications, you could make extensions on the slider levers that reached into the cab so you could shift it into any arbitrary gear like is needed for on-road driving. It would still be a royal pain, though, because it would want to go into neutral any time you lifted off the gas.
Also, it looks like he's turning the output shaft and calling it the input shaft, because when he goes into first gear, the small gear is on the shaft he's not turning.
I have a Cat7 that had a pneumatic in it when I bought it but was just so slow shifting drove me crazy . Ever watch TopGear remember Jeremy Clarkson when he was talking about the trans on the Smart roadster I'd say the trans my car came with was 10x worse . I took it to a trans shop and they said there wasn't anything wrong with it . So I swapped it out for one with mechanical linkage instead of pneumatic . Up side is it shifts quicker . Down side shifting is a little heavier . Wait is that really a down side my mom never wants to borrow it anymore .
What you didn't cover is how the ramps are set up so when engaging a gear, the ramps automatically disengage the prior ratio. However, nice video!!!
Is that slight ramp on the backside of the dog to allow flat shifting? If not, I can't get my head around getting it out of gear with full load on it
I had muncie,s in my time,,these were not available yet,Doug Nash 5 spd.was race trans. Borg -Warner T-10 ,with Liberty gears was used also ,Would love to try a G or a Jericho now,,
Yeah. Doug Nash 5-speed = "race trans" because "OD" was/is so commonly used in "racing".
1,2,3,4,5 N parachute. Repeat.
Fascinating stuff!
learning something from fullboost yet again..
how do you "build boost" with a manual at the tree ? perhaps a new video on it?
Any Constant mesh transmission is clutchless.. just blip the power and shift the lever.. easy.
oh ok,. I learnt something tonight. thanks buddy.
Which clutch does a dog box uses? is it a dry type friction clutch or a wet type multi plate or a cone clutch? plz answer
Pretty cool, I always wondered how it worked.
I want to ask, can the gearbox without clutch be reversed? Thankss
Thanks for the informative video is it sequential gearbox?.
Well yes, but not always.
For comparison, all Formula One cars from 1994 to this day are using Sequential Gearbox with Semi-Automatic Transmission. Which means the F1 Car itself is actually Automatic, but the driver can shift the gear at will.
And then there's Electric Sequential Gearbox which the Lever is in the Steering Wheel like Koenigsegg cars, and F1 Cars from 2004 to this day.
And then most Rally Cars are fitted with this Gearbox, even the Ford Focus.
Thats a gift from god yo
I presume the throttle is held wide open and the ignition is briefly interrupted to allow the shift? Is that also operated by the shifter? Saw a drag bike once that had a trans like that except it was operated by an air cylinder and a solenoid valve. The ignition interrupt worked in conjuntion with the solenoid valve.
From my understanding you just lightly let off the gas to reduce tension on the dog teeth, one tension is reduced, you force the shift. I've always been told to drive it like you hate it. The more force you use, the better the tooth engagement. I'm sure the do make interrupt-style as well for specific applications though.
Real van man is right, on sportbikes and dragbikes you get a quickshifter that momentarily cuts the spark while shifting to release pressure on the dogs. the quickshifter gets wired between the ignition and the ECU
From what I gathered from the video he said he doesn't lift on the throttle because the trans doesn't like it. It's full throttle and banging gears.
@@EatMyYeeties On motorcycle dog boxes if you manually ease off the throttle the shift level engages really smoothly, kinda same with a quick shifter but you have to trip it and engage the next gear in a single swift movement, depending on the loop quality that you have installed
The throttle is held fully open when upshifting and the ignition cutting switch is usually placed on the shifting rod. The time of ignition cut (miliseconds) is the object of testing to ensure the minimum stress to the the gearbox and also the precision of shift. You can do the same on the bike without the quickshifter, with a short throttle release simultaneously with upshift (not using a clutch), but you have to train a little bit and never would be so accurate.
Why would you prefer straight teeth gears to helical gears? i thought you would use the second type because of the extended contact arc and the greater tork appliable...
The issue with standard helicals is that they try to push away from each other (side thrust), giving extra strain onto the axle and perhaps the bearings, because the teeth are at a different angle than 90°
Unless the gears are herringbone style that is (both helicals going in a different direction in one gear) this will always be an issue.
Do you shift at full throttle with no lift or ignition cut? Literally slam it through the gears?
was wondering the same thing
Yep, just slam through the gears !
good explaining thanks man
I never use a clutch anyway up or down, except to start and stop. But don't take it wrong as this has a definite use.
I am fairly certain these boxes are used in Nascar road course. But ofcourse with a real shifter.
Vertical gate shifters have been around a million years.
No they're not.
Great video. Like the explanations re pros and cons. What would a gearbox like this cost in Aus? Keep up the tech and teach vids. can always learn from guys in the know. cheers
The downside of this gearbox is you can't back off of it until you get it in high gear, if you do back off then the ramped drive dogs will "ratchet" bending the shift forks in the process.
Hold it flat and jerk it hard..Hardest part is pulling it out of gear under load, the ramped dogs and plenty of space between them, lets it hook into the next gear with a bang..Brutal. All those smashable dogs and rings are sacrificial. Also looks like the ramps on the back of the dogs would spit it out of gear if you backed off or engine seized. This gearbox does one thing only, and does it well, smash through the gears one way and hard.
A true clutchless will "pull" it self out of gear once the next gear is engaged. It's inherent of there design.
So it's not going to last long due to the sleeve ripping right?
This is a high maintenance drag racing transmission. you freshen this up, when you pull the engine to freshen it up. (usually before each racing season).
Can it be use for daily driving
No. He said it would go to neutral if you decelerate. You would have to come to a complete stop to re engage.
I like.... but I hate those exterior shift links
I'm familiar with the road-racing cousin but one thing I'm not clear on that might be different from road-race boxes is, do you shift under full power or the driver has to lift or some automatic system?
These boxes are designed to shift under WOT yes.
@@fullboost there's has to be sooner sort of ignition cut to unload there dogs though.
When you're at rest and going from neutral to first, and both shafts are stationary, if the dogs are not aligned with the slots, how do you shift?
The input shaft spins with the engine so one shaft will move once the clutch is released.
Could you theoretically drive this on the street? Down shifting would be a hassle but couldn't you just go from 4th to 3rd by holding up on that lever on the shifter, or just go all the way to the top and go back through the gears while holding in the clutch?
Not a clutchless box, because it pops out of gear on deceleration, but these transmissions are available in a clutch assisted configuration, and they are fine on the street. I have done 2 dragweeks with liberty's clutch assist version of this transmission.
@@thestickcahhhh you drive with straight cut gears?
@@wannabecarguy yes, there are quite a few guys running transmissions like this on dragweek.
How does it look when the driver pulls one too many times during gearing and gets it in reverse?
Search for "money shift" ;)
Can you still use the clutch in a serious pro street car to save wear on the Trans?
i've read an article a long time ago, that in racing, every mili seconds that you can gain is important. shifting with depressing the clutch first took longer than just shifting the dog gear... and in racing, the trans is designed to take the abuse
Serious Pro street cars run Lenco transmission...just yank the lever.
You cant downshift a gear at a time really so on the street Its useless
@@vq37vhr12 With that shifter you can't, not fast anyways, but with a H-pattern you can.
I want to put this in my daily driver mustang.
Before you try that, learn to pull the trans you have out of gear at the same time, you let off the accelerator. This transmission will NOT hold the car back, when you lift off the pedal. But, for upshifting, you can't beat it. Down shifting for passing can be done, but a bit tricky.
@@vincentrobinette1507 sounds easy
So is there any way to go in reverse without being in 5th
Being straight cut gears they will make a lot of noise!!
Coming from a rotary I don’t think it matters.
Those engines don't usually use mufflers, so the gear noise is insignificant
So I gather you can only upshift, not downshift.
Yes
That slider with the engaging teeth reminds me of how an impact drill works, of course this tranny should stay engaged once the gear is in.
Why run such a long distance between gears? When the sliders are between gears theres probably 1/4" of play between the gear face plate and slider, wouldn't a much smaller distance be quicker and shortening the system will make it stiffer/stronger?
Seems that the smaller gaps will increase the risk of misshift, since the longer distance allows the shifting fork/dog ring get a bigger speed towards the shifted wheel?
That's what I need on my riding mower,
When you say clutchless are saying you don't need clutch to shift or also you don't need clutch to start?
just for shifting, this box selects both gears at the same time then throws out the lower gear.
Is that a Wankel block in the work bench?
this is something like the squential gearbox, doesn´t it?
I had a v gate shifter on my Muncie, ba
Same hear Smokey. Almost 50 years ago, Mr. Gasket had a V-gate that was probably the original design of the shifter in this video. I drove one in my Goats on the street for over 10 years, and only missed 2 shifts in that time. Was such a blast back then.
Wonder how this compares to SAMSONAS for drag racing
Thank you Sir
Okay i get it,clutchless you guys mean is for "you dont need clutch when you shift"....... Many guys here think its actual clutch-less=no clutch at all....but turque conv can replace the ordinary clutch,so when you use torque conv+this kind of transmission,you got no clutch.....but still use concept of " clutching"
That looks far easier to work on then a transmission that needs a press to move the output-shaft to get to the circlip.
Nice Introduction
Do you have to let off the throttle to shift with one of those boxes?
Nope 👍
Not with some gutless little import rice or tea-grinder "race engine" in front of it.
@@deeremeyer1749 are you about to tell me how anything other than an american v8 is trash?
Never heard a dog box called clutchless I clicked cause I thought they did away with the clutch but nope just a dog box that still has a clutch
How would you engage the trans without a clutch? The "clutchless" only refers to shifts.
cjshaker i was expecting some sort of hybrid between an automatic and manual idk you can shift without the clutch on any transmission so calling it clutchless is really dumb
@@matthewweisenburger2095 I'm with Matthew. Maybe it's related to where we are at in the world, but in the USA this is most commonly know as a dog box.
@@MustGoFasterVR4 in drag racing circles this is always refereed to as a clutchless transmission (even the manufactures of these transmissions GForce & Liberty Gears (USA companies) call them clutchless transmissions. road racing or circuit racing guys refer to gearboxes with similar gearsets as dog boxes generally however.
@@calvin99991 this isn't a dogbox this is a constant mesh
SO when you shift, lets say to 4 from 3, the motor go almost instantly from 7000 to 5000 rpm (for example).
So the 6 little notch, which engage into the right gear have to resist from the instant deceleration of all the moving part inside the motor (crankshaft, piston ...)
How the hell this survive more than 500 km without breaking or producing lot of iron filings ?
500km is a lot of 1/4 Mille pases 👍 Yes these sorts of gearboxes require maintenance they are not designed for street use.
is this what Mike Finnegan used in Blasphemi?
I'm sitting here reading comments and thinking you guys have no idea what you are talking about. *Commentors*
This is basically a regular 5 speed transmission with cut down blockers and synco's.
You remove half or more of the syncros and blockers and cut them at a specific angle and you do not need a clutch to disengage the tranny most guys use a rev limiter to slightly stop the power to change gears in a dogbox.
This is a true clutchless transmission and basically the sliders are not fully locked and the only thing keeping them in gear is power on as soon as power is interrupted the tranny falls out of gear and can be changed, the shape of the slider dictates if you can do this or not.
A standard street transmission the blockers and syncros are t shaped and keep the tranny locked in gear while coasting or in and out of throttle stuff, if you drive a manual normally and rest your hand on the shifter *which is really a bad idea btw stop being lazy and take your hand off the handle* the tranny can't come out of gear, these are designed to come out of gear on purpose.
The shifter is called a long style shifter as the name on the handle suggests and they run a few hundred dollars or an inline shifter.
There is styles of shifter that are v patterns and H pattern but the long style is the fastest of the shifters generally.
Basically this is a really beefy version of a ford toploader with an extra gear.
I hope this helps dispels some of the nonsense people are typing.
Have you ever seen, how small and weak are the syncromesh teeths on street tranny? Whatever you change on them, clutchless shifting buries it very fast. This transmission is racing sequential without any syncros. Just the ignition cut and the fast shifter movement of massive dog ring. nothing more. The shape of shifter does not matter.
You sir have no idea what you're talking about. The only similarities between this trans and a street, or modified street trans for that matter, is the presence of gears and some shafts. The style, design, and function of the internals between the two are competely different.
there was no explaination why there is no clutch to shift and how the links break from one gear into the other for the higher gear to catch the links and engage
He describes how it shifts at around 3:30. The sliding rings engage and put the power through whatever gear they are slid on to. The slide over and grab, as shown at 3:28.
they just have enough angle between the teeth, to engage, before the shaft turns that far. A lot of torsional play. These are not streetable, and they do not come with a 50,000 mile warranty. They are a high maintenance, but very effective race transmission. The purpose, is so you don't have to lose time in transition between gear changes, allowing you to apply the highest average horsepower possible for the pass. Just go through the gears once with one of these, it's more addictive than any drug!
Can you daily it?
What abt for a gokart or buggy??
Why do so many engines make that stuttering sound at high RPMs, like at the end of this video?
That's the rev limiter kicking in, cuts off some of the sparks at preset max rpm,
Yeah they call it a “two step”. It’s used for launching at the drag strip.
Now I believe I can make one for me.
i wouldnt say he knows all about it or shows all... slider wear one example was fine on the drive side where his mate said it was ordinary at start of vid .. it was prob out of the other side and could be turned around as a perfect slider ... ...and the fact he missed on this early design he didnt say it stays in gear while youre driving and fork spreads the pair of what he called sliders with spring pressure that hold them together for purpose of having neutral .to get it into the next gear 1-2 eg
From Engineering POV, is it possible to put it into everyday Car?
Libertys gears makes the best clutch less transmission
Very clever design, I suppose it eliminates the risk of missing a gear or money shifting whilst in a drag race
The Case splot vertically looks a lot like a Doug Nash / Richmond Gear 5 speed..
Ripper video!
Could you daily drive with one of these?
We have seen people use them on the road, but in short...No :)
Could you run this in a daily driver Cummins.
not really. they do not down shift very well at all. they are designed for drag racing to go up the gears 1-2-3-4-5 in that order only.
@@BackyardMechanics well thanks for taking the time to answer that. It would have been cool. Lol
The fth/reverse heim is either loose and or waisted.
is it necessary to relieve the load (take off the accelerator) in order to change the next gear? or is there an ignition cut-off system, such as the "kick shift"?
No just hold it flat 👍
Nice!!
1:40 is that at perth?
Sydney Dragway
@@BackyardMechanics oh just the grandstands looked similar
This would be a good asmr for carguys 4:30
Love that manual transmission. Forget auto... where is the fun?
fun and more over control. I have gone off from road thanks to automatic. Icy corner, rear end got lose, gave it a more gas to keep it drifting (FWD).. all was good, until gearbox decided to chance bigger gear what killed all torque i needed and i slided off from road..That was last time i'm driving automatic -.-
I absolutely agree! For those who don't, they're better off driving a Hybrid.