A solution is to angle your pick to pick more into the string / into the guitar, that way even if the string is 'ducking down' you should still hit it, since you are also playing more up and down rather than sideways. Also about the compound radii, does floyd roses actually come in different radii there, since you cannot raise or lower each saddle???
@@VArsovski10 nah that’s very normal, it’s definitely harder to bend down low on the neck. The tension is increased down there since you’re at the end of the string. Think about it like jumping on the edge of a trampoline, there’s not a lot of bounce there.
Another thing that happens when playing higher in the neck is that due to the shorter length of the string that can swing is that it doesn't swing as widely as on a lower fret. Therefore the string is a lot stiffer to play. When having a too strong picking style you will get exhausted a lot faster and if you are holding your pick too softly, then you are more likely to drop tje pick. Also it increases the chance of becoming only a stepdad once
One other note- fretting up very high shortens the string (by more than half!), changing the tension & resistance that your picking hand will feel. I find it very helpful to focus on relaxing the picking hand, especially when doing faster alternate picking runs.
Was working on this last night in a lesson while working on some Andy LaRocque stuff. What helped me was my teacher going “just focus on the left hand”, totally freed up the majority the tension in my right hand.
@@RancidAmputation123 fuck me andy larocque is criminally underrated But also not a lot of people like king diamond You either love him or think his vocals are nauseating I for one hate the high falsetto I'd rather have power wails in that band but that's just me
You're like an unusual combo of engineer, master musician, psychologist, alchemist, and stand-up intellectual comedian that many can benefit from directly. You're a riot, dude.
This is great! But you missed one other crucial reason: your thumb can't be placed in its normal spot in relation to your other fingers because of the body of the guitar getting in the way. This is especially a problem with the Les Paul's block joint where the neck meets the body.
I've seen a lot of players lately who pull their thumb completely to the front of the neck beside their index finger when they get up above the 15th or so. I don't know how they do it but it works for them!
@@garypatrick7426 That's normal for acoustic and classical guitars that don't have a cutaway. I used to do this too on my Les Paul at the very highest frets, since the blocky heel joint can only get you so far, but nowadays I exclusively play on guitars without a massive joint, so I can keep a consistent form and have one less thing to worry about.
I’m curious though, with a compound radius, if your bridge is radius for say 10” and your neck flattens to 16” u past the 12 fret, wouldn’t this “compound” the problem? I ask I have a compound radius Les Paul, and it has a standard tuneomatic bridge.
The physics says strange things but I believe the flatter portion isn’t a major issue. I don’t own A compound radius guitar but I’ve got to play a friend of mine‘s a few times and I couldn’t tell why I prefered it I knew it felt different. I was like 🤦🏽♂️ when he told me.
@@fmaraldo2829 yeah. It doesn't make a lot of sense to combine a compound radius neck with a bridge with a tight radius. the main advantage to a compound radius is to be able to have a lower action without fretting out as much on bends. With a 10" bridge, you're going to have to raise it to put the E strings in the right place, and then all of your middle strings will have a much higher action.
Thanks Ben!!! My girlfriend always complains that I watch too many guitar videos on TH-cam, but when she noticed that I was watching a video that demonstrates how to get better at fingering she told me to watch to my heart's content. Thanks!!
This is why I sub to this channel. Your insight and awareness on the instrument is unmatched. I'd genuinely never considered that, but it actually makes so much sense!
i've only just come across this myself, i've found moving my hand back helps alot - but like you said its all about feel and most the time you dont even realize youre doing it. thanks for the help mate, youve made everything so clear/easy to understand.
For the "compound" radius at the bridge, ideally you would want to match ever rising radius of the fingerboard , so for example 10-16 fingerboard would have aprox 18 inch radius.
This is something I've nerded out on before in my adventures in setting up my own guitars. If you do the math, for a 10-16 compound radius (10 in at the nut, 16 at the 22nd fret), the bridge radius comes out to 18.3 in. Fun fact, that bridge radius number is the same for any 10-16 radius guitar regardless of scale length! (so long as that compound number is taken at the same fret)
I’m a bassist as well( true bassist play upright) and that 1-2-3 thing is what happens as you play higher up the finger board! We ditch 4 and lower on the neck we don’t use 3 ( Simandl style).
I’ve noticed about the steep hill as I moved closer to the bridge when I play higher notes. Definitely a really cool video and I like the way that you broke it down. I’ve been watching your channel for quite a few years and you are one of the channel create my own channel and add videos that have to do with information guitar players. Especially beginners.
Great video! Maybe someone’s already pointed this out, but the rotation of the shoulder joint matters as well; since the neck of the guitar is straight you need to compensate for that medial rotation in the shoulder with a radial deviation in the wrist. That’s why many of us pronates in the wrist whilst playing those higher frets, the anatomy of our joints doesn’t really allow us to keep the same angles all across the fretboard :)
Many guitar greats use the pinky only if absolutely necessary.... In every section of the fretboard. You kick some butt with the information about radius distortion.
Thanks for doing this for me Ben, this is super helpful and hopefully helps others as well! Also, given you are talking physics, I just put it together that not only is the string dipping lower the higher up on the frets as mentioned, but the string *tension* is increased as well, so each pick stroke requires ever so slightly more pressure to ring the string! I just spent a few minutes between the 2nd and 22nd frets and the difference in both string height and tension is definitely noticeable and does appear that is a big part of my issue! The pinky suggestion is definitely helpful as well and does go against what I've been practicing so much high up the scales and exercises so going to adjust a bit in that area as well as my stupid fat fingers definitely crowd up after fret 15! And anyone still reading this, definitely go support Ben at his Patreon site, you too may get your questions answered and help him afford that protein powder he's cramming in to get ripped :)
I set my guitars up with a bit more relief than most people typically do. Then lower the action to compensate and get the action like I normally would around the typical frets. However, since the end of the fretboard isn't affected by neck relief, this means your action toward the higher register of the fretboard stays lower than it normally would . On my Jackson my treble strings are sitting around .75 mm around fret 17. It's a super comfortable set up to play.
Excellent point about setting the action on your guitar as flat and consistent up and down the neck as possible. Archtops like LesPauls are notorious for having high action near the neck pickup. I've definitely noticed that it's taken more time for me to get my LesPauls dialed in to my liking than some other models.
I work in a machine shop as a maintenance technician. I promise you that on my next downtime report I will fit the phrase radial distortion into it. It sounds like a perfectly technical term for a CNC machine center error code. Last week I snuck the term muffler bearing and it went unnoticed.
This radial distortion thing makes a lot of sense. I use to crank my action down low and ran into some of the same issues. Very informative video, thanks!
Thanks for taking on and discussing topics that are extremely helpful and informative. I often use the 3 finger approach on the higher frets but thought I was somehow cheating or doing it wrong...thanks for helping me understand it's just a different technique and not a bad thing.
Great vid, and I’ve had so many clients bring in problem guitars, when the only problem was the tech previously never setup the radius. As for a compound radius, I tend to use an equation that continues the compound to the bridge. So for instance (without doing all the math), if it’s a 10”-16”, I’ll radius the bridge at 20” (continuing the compound to the bridge). I’m sure a quick google search will find ya the equation I’m referring too. Either way, loved the vid, and appreciate you bringing attention to a commonly overlooked topic.
Thanks for that fine forensic analysis Mr Eller! I concur with your radial distortion hypothesis and that practice in unfamiliar areas on the neck is the only solution
Good point Ben! Gus G acknowledged this in one of his videos while talking about this when teaching us one of his solos. Tried it and behold it works better for me now.
5:52 this was about the moment I realized exactly what you were talking about, aha moment. The incline of the string depending on the fretted note location on the fretboard relative to where your picking hand is. So it's considerably lower compared to open strings high up the fretboard, enough to make a difference. When you first said radial distortion I was thinking radial nerve and something physiological at first lol. Maybe a little like how if you gain strength more quickly than your mind can keep up, it can throw off things like your aim in basketball or landing hits in MMA. It actually is very similar to that though, to do with muscle memory and what you're used to, just not quite what I was thinking at first which really didn't make sense to me.
On a compound radius guitar, the fretboard is a section of a cone. The radius at the bridge will be flatter than the last fret. So if the last fret is 16”, the bridge might be around 20”. Also if you set the relief on your neck so it’s pretty much dead straight, your action will be very uniform up the neck. Of course for the fact that at the nut the strings are just high enough to clear the first fret. With good fretwork you can get the action that low all the up. But many find that hard to play.
Awesome vlog Zom-Ben! I practice portions of different solos like Come On Feel The Noize on the the 5th, 12th and 15th frets to get the feeling of using 3 and 4 fingers.
There are always trade offs in the setup of a guitar. It will do some things better than others. For example to get really consistent action, you would want very little relief and a high string height at the nut. But that could cause you to go sharp when fretting notes there. To minimize the radius distortion you would want your action as low as possible, which means your fretwork needs to be dead on. And even then it still probably won’t play that cleanly, so it’s better for high gain.
I've never seen the concept of radial distortion described before, but it makes perfect sense. I suspect that the automatic flattening of the radius of the strings caused by the nut generally being flat compared to the radiused bridge would mean that the lower strings are easier to naviaget across as well.
I have that original "Radial Distortion" album - featuring Mick "Boomtakka" DeFuentes on drums, Thaddeus "Ignorant Fingers" LaCroix on piano, and Bippy "Whispering Thumb" Murphy on double bass. Nice. 😉
Great and informative video uncle Ben! I'd like to add another reason that makes it harder to shred high up. The reason is that the length of the string that gets stroked by the picking hand is shorter. It's easier to strike an open string, compared to striking it when playing a high note, let's say, in the 15th fret or higher. This becomes more prominent the more we move higher. It needs more strength to make the string vibrate (hence produce the sound). This is also the reason that it's easier to bend the string when we're in the middle of the fretboard, compared with bending high up or low down the neck
Thanq you Uncle Ben for this very well thought out and explained video. I really appreciate you sharing your guitar playing wisdom. It is a huge inspiration and you are very entertaining to watch to boot!
I built a parts caster with 12-16" compound radius, a Gotoh Floyd, and an OFR nut. The OFR nut is 10" and the bridge is 350mm (about 13.75"). I see now that I should have gotten a 10-14" radius on the neck to make it match up with little effort. Now it looks like I'll have to get a Special/1000 series nut (12") and shim the saddles on the bridge to really get my string radius perfect. Thanks for the video, Uncle Ben! 😁
My problem is placement of thumb when the guitar itself starts getting in the way. Normally I can place my thumb nice between my fingers, but when we reach higher fret numbers my thumb has to be placed on top of the neck no matter if I play on the high or low E string. At the same time I have to angle my whole hand so my fingers are tilted towards the tail piece, which all in all leads to this weirder hand and finger position that I can't transition fast into or away from. I play a PRS SE245, for people who wants to know.
I feel you, I use all 3 grip types when I play depending on what I'm doing. Classical grip tends to come out when I play big chords or play on the lower strings. Pinch grip is where I spend most of my time, sort of a happy medium. Thumb over grip comes out on big bends and up in the shredder zone. It used to bother me that I would switch between them as I played, but I've since rationalized that my hands are doing whatever is most comfortable and I'm just gonna have to roll with it. For reference, I have fairly big hands (6'3" dude) and I play mainly on my '92 RG565 (SUPER thin D shape) and my partscaster (pretty beefy D shape). Always remember: "proper" technique is what's going to be most mechanically efficient for most people, but the best technique is the one that works for YOU. Everyone's hands are different and there are plenty of legends with what you could call pretty shit technique (wtf is going on with Marty Friedmans right hand? for example) and they make it work for them anyway. I say just play and focus on doing the thing. Practice slowly and as you build speed try to focus more on the "what" than the "how." Your brain and hands will figure out the "how" for you as long as you put in focused practice time.
Finally! You might remember I asked you on Patreon because I've been having issues with pull offs and hammer ons on the higher frets. It's gotten better but it's definitely something that I have on every guitar no matter how well it's set up.
I wanted to add to the reasons it can be harder to shred high up on the neck unless I missed it in this video. The strings have more and more tension when we are fretting higher and higher. Even when we are "tickling" the strings up higher while keeping Ben's awesome phrase "Radial Distortion" in mind, requires a little more picking pressure to get the the same volume as picking on the lower frets. Something that crosses my mind if I'm not syncing up, etc.
Just got a Jackson off reverb and I was a bit worried. It plays amazingly. But I was a little worried about how high it was on the highs. This helped alot
On a compound go a couple of degrees flatter than the flattest point of the board. The reason being is that the nut should be cut at the roundest part of the board. For example a 10-16 compound. The nut should be set at 10. If the bridge is set at 16 by the time the strings get to the board (there’s some distance to cover over the pups) you’ll be lucky to be achieving a 14.5 radius as you meet the fret board resulting in needing higher action to clear the frets. You will split the difference between the radius of strings between the nut and bridge at the mid point 12th fret, in this example you’d be at 13 radius at the 12. Not terribly offset till you think about what fret the board becomes the flattest. I believe on fender this happens at the 14th fret. So if you’re at 13 r on the 12th your string radius is going to be significantly off over the 14th fret again requiring higher action. So to counter this effect you may need to set the bridge radius close to 19 degrees putting the midpoint 12th fret at 14.5 degrees you’ll reach the 16 radius before the 20th fret or so (split the distance from 12th fret to bridge to figure this out) and that should give you the ability to get the lowest possible action. It will never be as efficient of a radius match as a non-compound board but it’ll be as good as possible and likely low enough for anyones needs.
great tips for people to practice and try. also for speed playing, economy of motion is huge. faster you go , the less you want extraneous movement be it the pick or finger distance from the strings.
Uncle Ben, you are the Jeff Cavaliere of the guitar world. You really just have all the answers for everything you could ever hope or want to know about all things guitar
Ive noticed a couple of things, one is that the tension for picking increases, two that you have to be more precise with timing because the increased tension causes the string to pluck faster than before. I guess that's all I could notice, it also kind of requires better fret placement
That’s funny I was playing the intro to aerials by soad and noticed when it moves up an octave up higher I was having trouble playing it even though it was the same picking pattern as down low. This makes sense as to why
I keep my action low, but thinking about it, I realize that I compensate for "radius distortion" with left hand muting with a barred index finger to hold the string down and fret mostly with the middle ring and pinky up high. But I am also a bassist of 20 years, so I am used to digging into the strings with the pick.
That "radial distortion" is something I've felt for years but never really could put into words! It's such a slight factor but can be insanity-inducing, especially since sometimes my picking hand drifts towards the neck pickup
Great explanations Ben :) !! Couple other points : The notes sustain is reduced up the neck because the strings gets stiffer. Alternate picking or economy picking is more manageable but legato can sounds anemic . Rather than increasing the gain, I prefer to use some compression for legato stuff so the attack is less mushy. Also, lighter strings are much better IMO to keep better articulation and less of that boomy sound . Secondly, neck shims are a great to even out the kinda "fanning effect" and to find that sweet spot. That's why a lot of virtuoso players prefer bolt-on necks so they are not stuck with one neck angle. Finally, when I play up the neck, I try not to grab the neck and just use my thumb as a pivot point which I place sideway sometime so my hand is free to move and feel less clustered. On huge stretches sometimes Also I try to make my finger as independent from each other so only one of them is pressing the string on the fret and the other ones are slightly lifting. I try to force myself to not to ancher one my index finger especially when I'm doing ascending 3 note per strings. So here ya go ;) !
Great video Ben. I struggled a lot with this stuff until I changed 2 things. If you're on a budget this might help. 1. You don't need to be prepared to play a pinched harmonic all the time. Consider whether you need more pick exposed or less depending on the song. 2. Get Pick Slanting. When Parallel Picking the pick only catches the string at 1 height. A slanted picking style (which you cover wonderfully in a few videos) will hit the string at most heights with much less pick exposed.
Great vid, cheers. I personally never venture above the 7th fret. I tried playing something on the 9th fret once and ended up with a nose bleed. Never again!
a huge problem for me is also the angle that I have to keep my hand at. Sometimes my torso gets in the way, and sometimes its because the body of the guitar and the neck joint get in the way.
Very interesting episode, thanks Ben! I'm a string-tickler and I definitely noticed the string-ducking issue at some point while learning. I did a professional setup of the guitar to lower the action high-up and this reduced the ducking a bit, and after that I guess I just learned to anticipate the ducking at some point. The finger-crowding I've definitely noticed as well, I try to not be strict about the 1234 like you suggest.
I just realised that I ditch the pinky higher up and never actually noticed... all that sub-par Ritchie Blackmore noodling, (and it's quite awful) uninhibited by extra fingers... I'm going to have to start finding some better excuses! Great vid!
I think its less about the radius (imagine a flat fret board) and more about that higher action in the neck heel area and "displacing" the string that you are fretting a farther distance to contact the fret wire. You aren't picking any open strings up there when making a phrase or a lick,..so when you strike a note on the high E (15th fret) followed by a note on the B string (18th fret) the strings were both pushed to the radius of the freboard before being picked. So the only difference that I can understand is just the higher action causing left hand issues along with timing issues resulted from the farther displacing of the string from open to a fretted note taking more time.
The opening lick is a good sequence to go over in a lesson. You probably have somewhere and I missed it, but it is a technique Akira Takasaki uses on leads that sounds very shred worthy for a 2 string leads up the neck. I like radial distortion and if Alan Holdsworth didn’t owe EVH $$, it would have been a good name for that album. I believe what you are referring to and demonstrating is the strings angle of attack when fretting higher on the neck.
Awesome information Ben! I had just come to the realization you made in your first point yesterday. It was the first time that I thought it's stupid for me to force myself to keep the same finger spacing as down low.
Not entirely sure about this, but about the point you made around 3:20 about the action: Regardless of your string height preferences, theoretically, with a good setup ( which includes optimal nut slot height, a straight neck, good fretjob, the right amount of relief for the strings, the right height of bridge and its saddles, and also pickups, should they be in the way ) you should get the action as low as you want. In other words, the evening out of the action you suggested is a bit of an emergency solution for when you don't have time or the skill (yet) for the more detailed work that is a proper setup, especially the string height. The high frets is exactly where you are you gonna run into trouble when learning this. By repetition of the T.R.A.I.N cycle as suggested by Ron Thorn, the distance from string to fret on those high strings will get smaller and smaller. Again, maybe my understanding of this is off, but I don't think so. You're probably right in saying that it's the nature of the beast, but my point is, with accurate work, you can get the angles so perfectly that it almost makes that it will not feel that way.
That’s why I like to have a flatter fretboard radius even if all the strings have the same height according to the radius. On top of that thinner gauge strings help also a lot because you have to push less harder to fret the note. Low action makes a difference as well because when you move to the other string your fingers and pick don’t have to jump that high. As for the small space higher up the frets you can buy a longer scale neck. I am playing now a 26.5 inch scale Ibanez guitar and icw the standard 25.5 neck I have more room for my fingers. To compensate the extra tension the longer scale gives I uses thinner gauge strings and tune down a half step. The radius tools to adjust the radius is something I don’t use anymore. It seems it’s not working very accurate to me whether I put it on top or under the strings. Now I only use a string action ruler adjusting each string to thr desirable height
Correction on the guitars with compound radii. Think of it like a cone. Say we have a typical compound radius of 12"-16", the type of compound radius that's common on Jackson guitars, then you radius the bridge to 18" or so. That ensures things feel great over the whole neck. Great video, as always! Cheers!
Radial distortion ruins lives!!! Hope y’all picked up some good tips and learned how to fight it!
A solution is to angle your pick to pick more into the string / into the guitar, that way even if the string is 'ducking down' you should still hit it, since you are also playing more up and down rather than sideways.
Also about the compound radii, does floyd roses actually come in different radii there, since you cannot raise or lower each saddle???
Guess I'm not that good of a player or have strong enough fingers, but bending a whole step at low frets is much harder
@@VArsovski10 nah that’s very normal, it’s definitely harder to bend down low on the neck. The tension is increased down there since you’re at the end of the string. Think about it like jumping on the edge of a trampoline, there’s not a lot of bounce there.
Great video Ben !
Another thing that happens when playing higher in the neck is that due to the shorter length of the string that can swing is that it doesn't swing as widely as on a lower fret. Therefore the string is a lot stiffer to play. When having a too strong picking style you will get exhausted a lot faster and if you are holding your pick too softly, then you are more likely to drop tje pick. Also it increases the chance of becoming only a stepdad once
One other note- fretting up very high shortens the string (by more than half!), changing the tension & resistance that your picking hand will feel. I find it very helpful to focus on relaxing the picking hand, especially when doing faster alternate picking runs.
I came here to type this - you saved me several keystrokes thank you.
Was working on this last night in a lesson while working on some Andy LaRocque stuff. What helped me was my teacher going “just focus on the left hand”, totally freed up the majority the tension in my right hand.
@@RancidAmputation123 fuck me andy larocque is criminally underrated
But also not a lot of people like king diamond
You either love him or think his vocals are nauseating
I for one hate the high falsetto I'd rather have power wails in that band but that's just me
I have a similar experience
Exactly. I definitely thought that would be on the list. Probably too obvious.
You're like an unusual combo of engineer, master musician, psychologist, alchemist, and stand-up intellectual comedian that many can benefit from directly. You're a riot, dude.
This is great! But you missed one other crucial reason: your thumb can't be placed in its normal spot in relation to your other fingers because of the body of the guitar getting in the way. This is especially a problem with the Les Paul's block joint where the neck meets the body.
RT on this, I have a semihollow that doesn't have a cutaway or anything and I gotta do it like flamenco players if i wanna play up there lmao
This is one of the reasons I've switched to sculpted heel, or neck through guitars.
I've seen a lot of players lately who pull their thumb completely to the front of the neck beside their index finger when they get up above the 15th or so. I don't know how they do it but it works for them!
@@garypatrick7426 That's normal for acoustic and classical guitars that don't have a cutaway. I used to do this too on my Les Paul at the very highest frets, since the blocky heel joint can only get you so far, but nowadays I exclusively play on guitars without a massive joint, so I can keep a consistent form and have one less thing to worry about.
My favorite phrase "...re-finger stuff..."... Guitar players need capable and flexible fingers... 😉😉😅🤣😂🤘😁
I have found that the best way to sound good playing on the really high frets is to not suck at guitar. Thank you for attending my seminar.
We all know it's because we don't wanna wait. We want to shred NOW!
Proper set up and ultra flat radius, that’s why folks like compound radius on shredder axes.
I just can’t play fast enough for it to be an issue.
How do those porn bots beat us to the comments!??
I’m curious though, with a compound radius, if your bridge is radius for say 10” and your neck flattens to 16” u past the 12 fret, wouldn’t this “compound” the problem? I ask I have a compound radius Les Paul, and it has a standard tuneomatic bridge.
The physics says strange things but I believe the flatter portion isn’t a major issue. I don’t own A compound radius guitar but I’ve got to play a friend of mine‘s a few times and I couldn’t tell why I prefered it I knew it felt different. I was like 🤦🏽♂️ when he told me.
@@fmaraldo2829 yeah. It doesn't make a lot of sense to combine a compound radius neck with a bridge with a tight radius. the main advantage to a compound radius is to be able to have a lower action without fretting out as much on bends. With a 10" bridge, you're going to have to raise it to put the E strings in the right place, and then all of your middle strings will have a much higher action.
Thanks Ben!!! My girlfriend always complains that I watch too many guitar videos on TH-cam, but when she noticed that I was watching a video that demonstrates how to get better at fingering she told me to watch to my heart's content. Thanks!!
Never even considered this. Learn something new everyday. Thanks uncle Ben.
This is why I sub to this channel. Your insight and awareness on the instrument is unmatched. I'd genuinely never considered that, but it actually makes so much sense!
Hey uncle Ben good stuff bro. Cheers. Thanks for all your content.
i've only just come across this myself, i've found moving my hand back helps alot - but like you said its all about feel and most the time you dont even realize youre doing it. thanks for the help mate, youve made everything so clear/easy to understand.
For the "compound" radius at the bridge, ideally you would want to match ever rising radius of the fingerboard , so for example 10-16 fingerboard would have aprox 18 inch radius.
Ah, interesting!!
Nick, for clarity, so in a compound radius fretboard (12-16"") you're saying the 16" is the end of the fretboard, and not the bridge?
@@Ghaos Yes. As long it's 16" or a bit greater it should be fine.
But then you look at torzal guitars/bases twisted neck and prospective changes. :D
This is something I've nerded out on before in my adventures in setting up my own guitars. If you do the math, for a 10-16 compound radius (10 in at the nut, 16 at the 22nd fret), the bridge radius comes out to 18.3 in. Fun fact, that bridge radius number is the same for any 10-16 radius guitar regardless of scale length! (so long as that compound number is taken at the same fret)
I’m a bassist as well( true bassist play upright) and that 1-2-3 thing is what happens as you play higher up the finger board! We ditch 4 and lower on the neck we don’t use 3 ( Simandl style).
Very astute observation.
I’ve noticed about the steep hill as I moved closer to the bridge when I play higher notes. Definitely a really cool video and I like the way that you broke it down. I’ve been watching your channel for quite a few years and you are one of the channel create my own channel and add videos that have to do with information guitar players. Especially beginners.
Great discussion Uncle Ben. Thanks for the tips!
I love that you pointed out how consistent fretboard action helps, I just wish someone would show how that setup is achieved.
Great video!
Maybe someone’s already pointed this out, but the rotation of the shoulder joint matters as well; since the neck of the guitar is straight you need to compensate for that medial rotation in the shoulder with a radial deviation in the wrist. That’s why many of us pronates in the wrist whilst playing those higher frets, the anatomy of our joints doesn’t really allow us to keep the same angles all across the fretboard :)
Excellent comment!! Your whole body is involved and as you change positions it should be loose enough to adapt, especially shoulders
Many guitar greats use the pinky only if absolutely necessary.... In every section of the fretboard. You kick some butt with the information about radius distortion.
Thanks for doing this for me Ben, this is super helpful and hopefully helps others as well! Also, given you are talking physics, I just put it together that not only is the string dipping lower the higher up on the frets as mentioned, but the string *tension* is increased as well, so each pick stroke requires ever so slightly more pressure to ring the string! I just spent a few minutes between the 2nd and 22nd frets and the difference in both string height and tension is definitely noticeable and does appear that is a big part of my issue! The pinky suggestion is definitely helpful as well and does go against what I've been practicing so much high up the scales and exercises so going to adjust a bit in that area as well as my stupid fat fingers definitely crowd up after fret 15! And anyone still reading this, definitely go support Ben at his Patreon site, you too may get your questions answered and help him afford that protein powder he's cramming in to get ripped :)
I set my guitars up with a bit more relief than most people typically do. Then lower the action to compensate and get the action like I normally would around the typical frets. However, since the end of the fretboard isn't affected by neck relief, this means your action toward the higher register of the fretboard stays lower than it normally would . On my Jackson my treble strings are sitting around .75 mm around fret 17. It's a super comfortable set up to play.
Great vid here Ben, one of my favorite guitars in your collection, the Gibson, thanks.
First time here. I like how respectful the subscribers are. Take your like and subscribe you humble sir.
Excellent point about setting the action on your guitar as flat and consistent up and down the neck as possible. Archtops like LesPauls are notorious for having high action near the neck pickup. I've definitely noticed that it's taken more time for me to get my LesPauls dialed in to my liking than some other models.
I work in a machine shop as a maintenance technician. I promise you that on my next downtime report I will fit the phrase radial distortion into it. It sounds like a perfectly technical term for a CNC machine center error code. Last week I snuck the term muffler bearing and it went unnoticed.
This radial distortion thing makes a lot of sense. I use to crank my action down low and ran into some of the same issues. Very informative video, thanks!
Fantastic lesson Ben. 🎸🇬🇧
Very interesting. Learned new stuff after 45 years of playing.👍🏻
Wow this was one of the best informative videos ive seen. Good job!
Thanks for taking on and discussing topics that are extremely helpful and informative. I often use the 3 finger approach on the higher frets but thought I was somehow cheating or doing it wrong...thanks for helping me understand it's just a different technique and not a bad thing.
Very nice video. Not your typical guitar instructional kind of thing a lot of other folks presume to bring to you.
Very interesting video Ben. Thanks dude!
Great vid, and I’ve had so many clients bring in problem guitars, when the only problem was the tech previously never setup the radius. As for a compound radius, I tend to use an equation that continues the compound to the bridge.
So for instance (without doing all the math), if it’s a 10”-16”, I’ll radius the bridge at 20” (continuing the compound to the bridge). I’m sure a quick google search will find ya the equation I’m referring too. Either way, loved the vid, and appreciate you bringing attention to a commonly overlooked topic.
Excellent advice!
It's basically just linear extrapolation right?
@@bruzanhd pretty much. Appreciate people like you that know what I’m trying to say and nail it one sentence. Thanks!
Thanks for that fine forensic analysis Mr Eller! I concur with your radial distortion hypothesis and that practice in unfamiliar areas on the neck is the only solution
Great video, Ben! Very thoroughly 👍 Cheers from Sweden! 🇸🇪
Good point Ben! Gus G acknowledged this in one of his videos while talking about this when teaching us one of his solos. Tried it and behold it works better for me now.
Still amazed on your new Gibson! Great vid! Gotta go pinky police are after me.
Thanks for remedying this solution Uncle !
5:52 this was about the moment I realized exactly what you were talking about, aha moment. The incline of the string depending on the fretted note location on the fretboard relative to where your picking hand is. So it's considerably lower compared to open strings high up the fretboard, enough to make a difference.
When you first said radial distortion I was thinking radial nerve and something physiological at first lol. Maybe a little like how if you gain strength more quickly than your mind can keep up, it can throw off things like your aim in basketball or landing hits in MMA. It actually is very similar to that though, to do with muscle memory and what you're used to, just not quite what I was thinking at first which really didn't make sense to me.
Just seeing that guitar makes me want to go home and play some John Sykes riffs. Sweet guitar
Great point about even action- I don't mind overall higher action including up high nearly as much as I do feeling the action accelerate up the neck.
On a compound radius guitar, the fretboard is a section of a cone. The radius at the bridge will be flatter than the last fret. So if the last fret is 16”, the bridge might be around 20”.
Also if you set the relief on your neck so it’s pretty much dead straight, your action will be very uniform up the neck. Of course for the fact that at the nut the strings are just high enough to clear the first fret. With good fretwork you can get the action that low all the up. But many find that hard to play.
Great call! Thanks!
Awesome vlog Zom-Ben! I practice portions of different solos like Come On Feel The Noize on the the 5th, 12th and 15th frets to get the feeling of using 3 and 4 fingers.
There are always trade offs in the setup of a guitar. It will do some things better than others. For example to get really consistent action, you would want very little relief and a high string height at the nut. But that could cause you to go sharp when fretting notes there. To minimize the radius distortion you would want your action as low as possible, which means your fretwork needs to be dead on. And even then it still probably won’t play that cleanly, so it’s better for high gain.
I've never seen the concept of radial distortion described before, but it makes perfect sense. I suspect that the automatic flattening of the radius of the strings caused by the nut generally being flat compared to the radiused bridge would mean that the lower strings are easier to naviaget across as well.
#3 String ducking > radial distortion. And, radial deviation > radial distortion, if you wanna keep it science-y ;) Great episode Uncle Ben!
I have that original "Radial Distortion" album - featuring Mick "Boomtakka" DeFuentes on drums, Thaddeus "Ignorant Fingers" LaCroix on piano, and Bippy "Whispering Thumb" Murphy on double bass. Nice. 😉
Good episode! This really answered a few questions I've always had and now I realize why I seem to play things a certain way.
Uncle Ben is a genius that was very eye opening thanks 🤟🏻
Amazing video Ben. Truly Insightful and awesome.
Great and informative video uncle Ben! I'd like to add another reason that makes it harder to shred high up. The reason is that the length of the string that gets stroked by the picking hand is shorter. It's easier to strike an open string, compared to striking it when playing a high note, let's say, in the 15th fret or higher. This becomes more prominent the more we move higher. It needs more strength to make the string vibrate (hence produce the sound). This is also the reason that it's easier to bend the string when we're in the middle of the fretboard, compared with bending high up or low down the neck
Thanq you Uncle Ben for this very well thought out and explained video. I really appreciate you sharing your guitar playing wisdom. It is a huge inspiration and you are very entertaining to watch to boot!
I built a parts caster with 12-16" compound radius, a Gotoh Floyd, and an OFR nut. The OFR nut is 10" and the bridge is 350mm (about 13.75"). I see now that I should have gotten a 10-14" radius on the neck to make it match up with little effort. Now it looks like I'll have to get a Special/1000 series nut (12") and shim the saddles on the bridge to really get my string radius perfect. Thanks for the video, Uncle Ben! 😁
Such an obvious concept that I never considered. Great call out.
And that's why shredders loved those Wizard necks and that humongous fretboard radius 😁
awesome video! Also beautiful LP You rock uncle ben
As always, great breakdown video!
My problem is placement of thumb when the guitar itself starts getting in the way. Normally I can place my thumb nice between my fingers, but when we reach higher fret numbers my thumb has to be placed on top of the neck no matter if I play on the high or low E string.
At the same time I have to angle my whole hand so my fingers are tilted towards the tail piece, which all in all leads to this weirder hand and finger position that I can't transition fast into or away from.
I play a PRS SE245, for people who wants to know.
I feel you, I use all 3 grip types when I play depending on what I'm doing. Classical grip tends to come out when I play big chords or play on the lower strings. Pinch grip is where I spend most of my time, sort of a happy medium. Thumb over grip comes out on big bends and up in the shredder zone. It used to bother me that I would switch between them as I played, but I've since rationalized that my hands are doing whatever is most comfortable and I'm just gonna have to roll with it.
For reference, I have fairly big hands (6'3" dude) and I play mainly on my '92 RG565 (SUPER thin D shape) and my partscaster (pretty beefy D shape).
Always remember: "proper" technique is what's going to be most mechanically efficient for most people, but the best technique is the one that works for YOU. Everyone's hands are different and there are plenty of legends with what you could call pretty shit technique (wtf is going on with Marty Friedmans right hand? for example) and they make it work for them anyway. I say just play and focus on doing the thing. Practice slowly and as you build speed try to focus more on the "what" than the "how." Your brain and hands will figure out the "how" for you as long as you put in focused practice time.
Thank you, Ben!
So nice and usefull info for me right in time.
Wow great video already watched the whole thing utilising 50x speed
You're the best, Uncle Ben.
I need to watch this later. Great content!
Outstanding, Uncle Ben! You're a thinking man's guitarist!
This is brilliant. Radial Distortion. It's nice to have a name for it now. And I like things that are nice.
Finally! You might remember I asked you on Patreon because I've been having issues with pull offs and hammer ons on the higher frets. It's gotten better but it's definitely something that I have on every guitar no matter how well it's set up.
So glad to help, buddy!!!
Cool stuff Ben
I wanted to add to the reasons it can be harder to shred high up on the neck unless I missed it in this video. The strings have more and more tension when we are fretting higher and higher. Even when we are "tickling" the strings up higher while keeping Ben's awesome phrase "Radial Distortion" in mind, requires a little more picking pressure to get the the same volume as picking on the lower frets. Something that crosses my mind if I'm not syncing up, etc.
Just got a Jackson off reverb and I was a bit worried. It plays amazingly. But I was a little worried about how high it was on the highs. This helped alot
On a compound go a couple of degrees flatter than the flattest point of the board. The reason being is that the nut should be cut at the roundest part of the board. For example a 10-16 compound. The nut should be set at 10. If the bridge is set at 16 by the time the strings get to the board (there’s some distance to cover over the pups) you’ll be lucky to be achieving a 14.5 radius as you meet the fret board resulting in needing higher action to clear the frets. You will split the difference between the radius of strings between the nut and bridge at the mid point 12th fret, in this example you’d be at 13 radius at the 12. Not terribly offset till you think about what fret the board becomes the flattest. I believe on fender this happens at the 14th fret. So if you’re at 13 r on the 12th your string radius is going to be significantly off over the 14th fret again requiring higher action. So to counter this effect you may need to set the bridge radius close to 19 degrees putting the midpoint 12th fret at 14.5 degrees you’ll reach the 16 radius before the 20th fret or so (split the distance from 12th fret to bridge to figure this out) and that should give you the ability to get the lowest possible action. It will never be as efficient of a radius match as a non-compound board but it’ll be as good as possible and likely low enough for anyones needs.
great tips for people to practice and try. also for speed playing, economy of motion is huge. faster you go , the less you want extraneous movement be it the pick or finger distance from the strings.
Uncle Ben, you are the Jeff Cavaliere of the guitar world. You really just have all the answers for everything you could ever hope or want to know about all things guitar
Ive noticed a couple of things, one is that the tension for picking increases, two that you have to be more precise with timing because the increased tension causes the string to pluck faster than before. I guess that's all I could notice, it also kind of requires better fret placement
That’s funny I was playing the intro to aerials by soad and noticed when it moves up an octave up higher I was having trouble playing it even though it was the same picking pattern as down low. This makes sense as to why
I'm glad this has a term now!
Brilliant video! This information is so valuable for me and my guitar students. Thank you for your work Ben. You are the best TH-cam guitar teacher!
Good stuff Ben very interesting.
I keep my action low, but thinking about it, I realize that I compensate for "radius distortion" with left hand muting with a barred index finger to hold the string down and fret mostly with the middle ring and pinky up high.
But I am also a bassist of 20 years, so I am used to digging into the strings with the pick.
Wow, another badass lesson. As a beginner guitarist, I totally needed this video. Thanks Uncle Ben🎸.
never thought about the radial distortion issue. cool video.
What a great video. Gj, Uncle Ben.
Radial Distortion is an awesome term. It could also be a great band name for your Prog-Metal project. Love it.
That "radial distortion" is something I've felt for years but never really could put into words! It's such a slight factor but can be insanity-inducing, especially since sometimes my picking hand drifts towards the neck pickup
Great explanations Ben :) !! Couple other points : The notes sustain is reduced up the neck because the strings gets stiffer. Alternate picking or economy picking is more manageable but legato can sounds anemic . Rather than increasing the gain, I prefer to use some compression for legato stuff so the attack is less mushy. Also, lighter strings are much better IMO to keep better articulation and less of that boomy sound . Secondly, neck shims are a great to even out the kinda "fanning effect" and to find that sweet spot. That's why a lot of virtuoso players prefer bolt-on necks so they are not stuck with one neck angle. Finally, when I play up the neck, I try not to grab the neck and just use my thumb as a pivot point which I place sideway sometime so my hand is free to move and feel less clustered. On huge stretches sometimes Also I try to make my finger as independent from each other so only one of them is pressing the string on the fret and the other ones are slightly lifting. I try to force myself to not to ancher one my index finger especially when I'm doing ascending 3 note per strings. So here ya go ;) !
Great video Ben. I struggled a lot with this stuff until I changed 2 things. If you're on a budget this might help.
1. You don't need to be prepared to play a pinched harmonic all the time. Consider whether you need more pick exposed or less depending on the song.
2. Get Pick Slanting. When Parallel Picking the pick only catches the string at 1 height. A slanted picking style (which you cover wonderfully in a few videos) will hit the string at most heights with much less pick exposed.
Great vid, cheers. I personally never venture above the 7th fret. I tried playing something on the 9th fret once and ended up with a nose bleed. Never again!
a huge problem for me is also the angle that I have to keep my hand at. Sometimes my torso gets in the way, and sometimes its because the body of the guitar and the neck joint get in the way.
Thanks Uncle Ben, always relevant and keep us thinking 🤔
Very interesting episode, thanks Ben! I'm a string-tickler and I definitely noticed the string-ducking issue at some point while learning. I did a professional setup of the guitar to lower the action high-up and this reduced the ducking a bit, and after that I guess I just learned to anticipate the ducking at some point. The finger-crowding I've definitely noticed as well, I try to not be strict about the 1234 like you suggest.
I just realised that I ditch the pinky higher up and never actually noticed... all that sub-par Ritchie Blackmore noodling, (and it's quite awful) uninhibited by extra fingers... I'm going to have to start finding some better excuses! Great vid!
I think its less about the radius (imagine a flat fret board) and more about that higher action in the neck heel area and "displacing" the string that you are fretting a farther distance to contact the fret wire.
You aren't picking any open strings up there when making a phrase or a lick,..so when you strike a note on the high E (15th fret) followed by a note on the B string (18th fret) the strings were both pushed to the radius of the freboard before being picked.
So the only difference that I can understand is just the higher action causing left hand issues along with timing issues resulted from the farther displacing of the string from open to a fretted note taking more time.
where neck joins body area is tricky. you right i never thought fretboard not flat.
The opening lick is a good sequence to go over in a lesson. You probably have somewhere and I missed it, but it is a technique Akira Takasaki uses on leads that sounds very shred worthy for a 2 string leads up the neck. I like radial distortion and if Alan Holdsworth didn’t owe EVH $$, it would have been a good name for that album. I believe what you are referring to and demonstrating is the strings angle of attack when fretting higher on the neck.
Brilliant video!
Awesome information Ben! I had just come to the realization you made in your first point yesterday. It was the first time that I thought it's stupid for me to force myself to keep the same finger spacing as down low.
Not entirely sure about this, but about the point you made around 3:20 about the action:
Regardless of your string height preferences, theoretically, with a good setup ( which includes optimal nut slot height, a straight neck, good fretjob, the right amount of relief for the strings, the right height of bridge and its saddles, and also pickups, should they be in the way ) you should get the action as low as you want. In other words, the evening out of the action you suggested is a bit of an emergency solution for when you don't have time or the skill (yet) for the more detailed work that is a proper setup, especially the string height.
The high frets is exactly where you are you gonna run into trouble when learning this. By repetition of the T.R.A.I.N cycle as suggested by Ron Thorn, the distance from string to fret on those high strings will get smaller and smaller.
Again, maybe my understanding of this is off, but I don't think so. You're probably right in saying that it's the nature of the beast, but my point is, with accurate work, you can get the angles so perfectly that it almost makes that it will not feel that way.
Really great video Ben... I've been playing for 30+years and rarely to I find something this great and simple...simple is the key here for me... 🤣🤣🤣
That’s why I like to have a flatter fretboard radius even if all the strings have the same height according to the radius. On top of that thinner gauge strings help also a lot because you have to push less harder to fret the note. Low action makes a difference as well because when you move to the other string your fingers and pick don’t have to jump that high.
As for the small space higher up the frets you can buy a longer scale neck. I am playing now a 26.5 inch scale Ibanez guitar and icw the standard 25.5 neck I have more room for my fingers. To compensate the extra tension the longer scale gives I uses thinner gauge strings and tune down a half step.
The radius tools to adjust the radius is something I don’t use anymore. It seems it’s not working very accurate to me whether I put it on top or under the strings. Now I only use a string action ruler adjusting each string to thr desirable height
Great video🤘🔥🔥🤘
Correction on the guitars with compound radii.
Think of it like a cone. Say we have a typical compound radius of 12"-16", the type of compound radius that's common on Jackson guitars, then you radius the bridge to 18" or so.
That ensures things feel great over the whole neck.
Great video, as always! Cheers!