I promise you now that an adult learner that cares but can’t call him/her self an “electrician” is far more valuable than someone thats done an apprenticeship that doesn’t care✌🏻
@William Tell I completely agree with your points. Attitude is just as important as training and experience. Ideally, a good electrician has all three. I think the argument made in the video is based on the criteria to obtain an ECS “gold” card. Rightly or wrongly. The Gold Card requires a Level 3 NVQ as well as one of the AM2 variants. Many construction sites will not consider you an electrician unless you have a Gold Card, although you can usually still work using an “Electrical Labourer” or “Trainee Electrician” ECS card.
I’m in my late 30’s only have level 3 city and guilds all paid for by myself. Only 3 years on the job. I agree with that. Apprentices who’ve come through the process haven’t impressed me at all. Think they’re owed something. Qualifications aren’t everything. Pride of work, dedication and focus is what a true tradesmen has.
So having C&G 2330 lvl 2-3 , 16th-17th-18th edition regs , C&G 2392 and C&G 2391 inspection & testing and having my work assessed every year by Napit , stroma for the last 12 years while I work independently and certificate all my work makes me at best an electrical labour 😂😂😂😂 ok . Just because the JIB only class their route into the industry being a AM2 / NVQ doesn’t mean it’s the only route . I suppose if I ever had to work on a site with JIB rates I’d only be a labour but can’t see me doing that any time soon 😂😂😂😂
I can see exactly where he is coming from. I was a class 1 HGV driver for 14 years and re-trained as an electrician. It is NOT easy being and adult and juggling responsibilities and training. It worked out for me in the end and I worked my way up to being an NICEIC assessed qualified supervisor in the company I worked for. But starting off was really hard financially.
Thanks for the video as always and congratulations to Richard for following his dreams. Dare I say it, but I think the debate about electrician or qualified electrician may be missing the point. To most outside the industry, an electrician is someone who fixes the wiring. If someone were to say to them, ‘I’m not an electrician, I’m a domestic installer’ I reckon they would go away and find someone who is willing to call themselves an electrician. Electrical work is so broad that nobody can do it all; the DNO teams probably aren’t members of a CPS scheme but are far more skilled in working underground, in confined spaces, live and in the presence of HV. And then there’s the HV side itself. To me the key marker is professionalism, which is having high standards, knowing your limits and being prepared to turn down work which you cannot do to those high standards. That applies during a job too, so being prepared to accept defeat and call in help if it is more complex than expected. It also applies to the more peripheral aspects; most domestic installations are electrically fairly simple with the skill being in fault finding and extending where the access is difficult and the maintenance poor.
I've see the work of plenty of "proper" electricians who have done apprenticeships... Say no more... When I did my 18th, my first electrical qualification, I was shocked at the lack of knowledge of these apprentice served electricians who may have held their 17th for donkeys years but just do things the way they always have. The whole system is outdated and the old boys club like this guy like to look down on people who are new to the industry when its perfectly possible to work hard, study for qualifications suited to what you want to do (ie domestic installer) and take a bit of pride in your work.. Do that and you'd be better than most!!
The system is not outdated at all and what Gary is saying is the truth. There may very well be qualified electricians out there who are poor, but there are equally guys out there who aren't properly qualified who are also poor.
Hi Gaz, as you know my story, I am proof you can retrain, and become a fully qualified, gold carded electrician. I'd love to share my experience and advice to people thinking of retraining. If you'd like to do a similar interview with me, that would be awesome . It'll be good to catch up too
@@efixx I would like to see this as I am currently going down the retraining route and would like to see my options once I have completed my level 3 and hear people's stories of retraining. Informative video :)
Competence is the eye of the law is hard to demonstrate. I always use the SKATE acronym. SKILLS KNOWLEDGE ATTITUDE TRAINING and EXPERIENCE. It takes time to fulfil and there is no set rule or route
When i did my 236 parts 1 & 2, i was told by the college at enrolment, this course was equal to the jib and part 2 will qualify you as an electrician. I backed up the above qualifications with the original 2391, 16th, 17th and 18th editions. So having listen to your comments, are you now telling me i am not an electrician and my qualifications are worthless? By the way i am an NICEIC QS, for a very large jib contactor and spend most of my time educating the gold card brigade on how to install and test it correctly. I often think jib contractors should undertake a skill assement of their electricians when they re new there esc card.
I think education aside... you can be told what courses would benefit you the most but at the end of the day, they should test your competence rather than check your qualifications... being competent and being qualified are 2 different things and some of the best electricians I worked with were old school experienced sparks with no formal qualifications but they were competent
@@sparkygazza gary, have a look on the niceic web site for the EAS, gold card route. The niceic recognise city and guilds 236 parts 1 & 2. To get the gold via the EAS route fill in the questionnaire detailing your working history and experiences, they will review this and if you meet their criteria you just have to do the am2. So no faffing about with portfolios or someone face timing you and watching you install containment. this is to stop the college on monday, electrician on friday scenario. I still disagree with having to do the am2 but things change and we have to move with the times. I am not sure if the jib have / do something similar.
Hi guys I am 68 years old , back in the days I trained as an apprentice, qualified under the old HND qualifications , was head of a electrical planning and design department, designed electrical installations for hospitals etc , left the industry in the Late 90s ( 16 th edition ) used to go onsite and do testing and handovers etc . I have very recently rewired a 2 bed little bungalow i intend to rent out . Did a little bit of reading and don’t see huge changes over 30 years , apparently I’m no longer an electrician.
Thanks for your kind comments, in 1827 Geordie Ohm ( I’m a Geordie 😂) made a brilliant observation regarding the connection between pressure , flow and resistance. Once you fully understand this you’ve got the basics of electricity , I’m not quite sure all of the so called Approved Electrical engineers really understand the importance of this theory . I’ve been asked many times to query so called ECIR reports and it’s quite frightening . I’m not moaning or complaining, at the end of the day I spend most of my time on a golf course . It’s just a bit bizarre that one day someone who doesn’t know me or my ability decides I’m not a competent person .
in the olden days,1966.i had to do a 5 year apprentiship.i worked in industrial electrics,i also learnt about domestic electrics by working with my electrician on house work.this idea of becoming an electrician after a short course is crazy to me.
Everything said was pretty much out of the JIB handbook however there currently isn't any laws in this country requiring you must hold hold these qualifications, you only need to be Part P accredited to test electrical work in domestic properties not that Joe public would be aware of this. Until this country starts treating electrical work the same way we do gas, all this is just a discussion point. You don't need to hold a JIB card to call yourself an electrician.
And who works for jib rates thease days ? When I was a apprentice ( 1973). Things were so different we had elect mates. Some of them never wanted to be made up for the few extra pounds we got . Most said not worth the Agro , and I remember some of those mates were better than the sparks ..things have changed a hell of a lot more paper work , the safety. Is a lot better I never had a lap top or I phone. Just a pencil paper , and rubber.. I’ll retire this year I’ve worked all over uk and in France , and Germany .. loved it but the old back is playing up now and I get fed up with the young guys saying you ok oldie hahaha it’s amazing how many young guys have not done pyro ..yes the equipment is better now. I still have my wind up megger.., which I tell them to hold while I turn the handle ..will I miss it ? You know the laughs yes .. but to me the guys who keep making up thease rules for the 18 edition and so on imo must be shown to be doing something ..all the schooling only helps you prepare you never stop learning , and the best way is on the tools practice makes perfect .. many I have know read all the books . But on site that was not enough ..I’ve enjoyed my time as a spark. And I would do it all over again....
@@rouman7 yeah I agree JIB rates are pretty poor and not much higher than you can get these days working in a warehouse. I think some companies still employ mates and you're right some are better than the allegedly qualified electricians. I doubt that they still teach them how to do Pyro, but that's progress I guess. The regs do need to be updated to keep up with changing times and technology, but I'm not sure how they justify the cost of the new books
The stuff I've seen in my new build house that's "acceptable" really has shaken my faith in any kind of regulations / membership body. It's all about the cost cutting and not about doing a good job. Don't know how that is fixed at a systematic level. It must be impossible for decent, honest and good electricans to win work; the average Joe just won't know the difference until the worst happens.
Just a one way conversation regarding the discrepancy between the terms Electrician and Domestic Installer. Unfortunately, if a customer called me an ‘electrician’ whilst rewiring their property I would not sit them down and say I’m a domestic installer and explain why. It’s a question of perception outside the industry. You have pulled an adult learner in to tear them apart regarding a difference in perceptions. A pilot is a poor example... I could be a pilot of light aircraft but not commercial jets, do fundamentally the same things, but operate in different scopes. Normally enjoy your videos but this is particularly poor
@@beardedsparks2825 not at all, Pal. The point is to demonstrate that what people refer to ‘electrician’ can not be obtained as quickly as a domestic installer accreditation.
Plenty of professions qualify by college/uni. Often with some kind of portfolio. The apprenticship system should not be the only route, it is a vocational route. You can even fast track to be a GP/doctor with a good first degree. Plenty of self interest in maintaining current arrangements.
A competent Electrician is someone who has sufficient knowledge, skills and experience to safely carry out Electical work to a good standard. The key to safety and standards is willingness and attitude. All of the worst electricians I’ve met are “TIME SERVED MATE” who couldn’t understand the difference between earthing and bonding or why you need to test and verify all work undertaken, not just “THE BIG JOBS”.
I’ve met some some guys out there who go on about serving 5 year apprenticeships who knew very little ( not all by the way as I’ve met some very good ones also). The most knowledgeable guy I’ve worked with wouldn’t actually be classed as an electrician going off his qualifications but his attitude is first class so sets him apart from the rest.
As a teacher I can confidently say that, in spite of qualifications, there are very few qualified electricians out there, most people who claim to be electricians are no more than installers. Just ask someone to do a simple cable calculation or how to do a continuity test or even the difference between exposed and extraneous conductive parts and watch them go to pieces. Even main contractors of large companies don't know how to do voltage drop! The industry is in bits from where I'm standing.
@@efixx sorry about the moody comment, I suppose I see the best and the worst of it when I'm teaching. I try to help improve these kids while battling against all the electricians on site who say that they don't really need to know all the stuff I'm teaching them.
I think site work is were the skills have been lost. Just banging up basket tray and throwing t and e on it mean less qualified electricians are required. Modifying and improving existing installations is were more skill and experience is required.
@@stevenhopkins2925 I was on a job doing it the way it should be done I was one time just checking in the regs book some Gob S says to me he never looks in the book do you even know what you are doing then kicks my tool box an tester. I ended up busting him up what you say is true I heard that you don't need to know that stuff but we do. I did volt drop calcs just so I knew it was OK. On one job I was testing round sockets an get told just plug the drill in see if it works. Watching this makes me think at 48 am waisting my time getting new papers as have 224 236 185 an 16th edition. I been reading up buying book from coming out of hospital well even before I was reading up watching youtube, I think now what is the point am 48 recovering from pancreatic cancer. I was hoping to just work for my self 2 to 3 days a week I have worked with so called level 2 an 3 an one asked my why the bathroom fan did not work after turning the light off he asked don't the capacitors hold charge an keep the fan on I say it needs a permanent live. What he then asked I then think can this man even dress him self and wipe his own back side. I would trust my cat more.
I remember during my HND audio engineering course (years back) our lecturers telling us we won't be "qualified" sound engineers, a shock to the system at that age but very true!! College/university can only teach you so much, you still require "real" world experience and even then every day can be a school day, even for the most qualified of people
Well done Richard for your openness. I think it's time for the regulator to enforce a trainee journey explaining what you are paying for/ learning. At the end of courses you should have a clear training program showing what you are and what's next in becoming an electrician. Apprenticeships are only good if the training you receive is quality. Also, the company you are working for need to be descent. I've worked with qualified sparks who don't know anything. I've worked with labourers who have the 18th and are very experienced but won't move on. It's just a mess and the customers are suffering
I've sort of been hit with this slightly. I did my training approx 18yrs ago. I was an adult trainee that managed to find a company willing to give me ago (I was in my late 20's). In 2 yrs I did 2351, 2360, 2377, 2381 (16th regs - I've done 17th and 18th since), Nvq3 & 2391. At the time I was told as an adult trainee you do either Nvq3 or your Am2 .So as I thought the Nvq 3 was more of a modern course (and was told the AM2 was old tat). So since then armed with my Approved Sparks Jib card I've been happily (mostly) working away as a sparky, lead sparky, testing electrician, Niceic QS then a Senior QS & now an Estimator. But I've since been told your not a qualified sparks as you don't have AM2. But I was told I didn't need it! So I've been told if I let my Gold card expire I will not get one again without an AM2. My argument is simply if the Regs aren't retrospective, why are your qualifications. They need to stop moving the goal posts.
It's a constantly evolving industry which is why you have to prove ongoing competence. A bit like the IT industry. Makes sense to me, it's not like we're cutting hair in which basically only the tools change slightly over time. New regs, new products, new methods of construction, etc.
@@electricalstuff259 I've not got an issue with Updating regs course, doing CPD etc. Its just the bit with things like AM2, that I didn't need when I initially trained. But now there saying I do need.
Big fan of the channel & like the poor sod u had on there I’m at college doing the same course....You really can’t compare a surgeon or a pilot to a electrician, on a personal one I don’t think 5 years in the game will make much difference as there’s only one way to skin a cat....Rings are Rings radials are radials & having to work with a bunch of numties to prove this is shocking.....The fact that some so called electricians have gone down the apprenticeship route won’t make them any more knowledgeable than the next bloke....Dave Savery has proved this & have the upmost respect for someone who pretty much proves that putting the time I’m can get u there. Ps the route to becoming a spark is out dated & not only for the kids but for adults too trying to find work is like gold dust it’s about time the colleges work alongside government to have some form of Site rigs with all the usual wiring systems so we cld all get on with getting into the electrical world. Sorry Gazz but watching this Vid was painful & disappointing not coz u brought up some home truths about the path into becoming a spark but it was almost like u agreed with it.....C&G courses are stuck in the 70s with half the S••• wiring I’ve seen while working
Bang on mate. The theoretical knowledge + a keen eye for details and pride in your work is all that is needed. Electricians like to make out that being an electrician is like rocket science and it's not. 32a, 2.5mm, rings. 20a, 2.5mm, radial. 6a, 1-1.5mm, lights. If you want to go on to commercial and industrial you will probably have to shadow with someone for 6 months but the theoretical knowledge is the knowledge and that would be no different from someone who served time house bashing trying to go onto industrial 3-phase set ups - they're not gonna know what they're doing at first either.
The need to complete an “apprenticeship” is a massive deterrent for older adults to retrain in the industry. I get you need experience, but apprentices are really geared to people straight out of school.
The system is a ball ache ... i trained as an ETO yet when i came shore side i couldn't use my qualifications to work anywhere in the electrical industry.. crazy
I posted a comment early but some fool said I was bulshitting so I deleted it, Try a couple of multiskills courses along side it and this way it should work. I had the same problem and now been working as a shift Engineer and also a self employed contractor.
At 38 I went back to college with the support of my wife(maths teacher) and the company I worked for. Nothing like being called "grandad" in a class of 17-25 year olds to add more pressure😂 3 years later levels 2 and 3, Am2, 17th edition and apprentice of the year 2010 I could call my self a electrician....not yet! Made redundant and starting up as self employed I helped a mate doing domestic as I was commercial experienced then I completed 2391 and other courses but only now 10years later i now respond to "hey sparky..." it's the experience doing the job that makes it and having a good few guys that don't mind a call to give advice when needed, Napit were really helpful too as other schemes were very chicken and egg. You need experience to join but to work you need the scheme so I changed my consumer unit as evidence and have been with them ever since😊 Good luck with your training but experience counts so ask a sparky if you could tag along 😉😊
Well said....My comments cld easily be misinterpreted experience counts but don’t feel that 2-5 years is realistic, gazz made a comment comparing it to a pilot I see where he was doing from but also very far fetched, I like to compare it to the black cabs why do 3-5 worth of the knowledge when we have the sat-nav for big forms to come along like Uber & F••• there industry up.....it’s only a matter of time before someone addresses the situation!
@@Stelyyabs24 I still really don’t trust the certification software it’s removing the checking process of our job But to stay competitive I’ve gone down the 21st century path. But using it does that make me less qualified? I hate to think what the industry will be like in 10 years? Maybe an app for wiring a socket? Training yes but experience is equally important 😊
I was lucky enough to start with a traditional apprenticeship as an electrician in 1980. I spent 14 years with the same company in electrical contracting, then moved onto a national refrigeration company as a refrigeration engineer who was also responsible for the electrical aspect of refrigeration and air conditioning installations for 5 years. Following that I moved into the facility maintenance sector as a multi skilled engineer and have been doing that for around 23 years now. I meet very many people these days that secure jobs as electricians in the facilities maintenance sector that have retrained at night school. The problem is that they have the qualification and very often don’t have the practical experience so struggle with the work when sent out for fault finding or repairs. My advice is to get onto an electrical contracting company to gain the experience and work in a team or a pair to get that valuable on site experience for at least a couple of years. Most managers on facilities maintenance companies just see the electrical qualification and assume you can do it all.
An Electrician is somebody who works with electricity as a profession. If you've got a qualification which means you are skilled and competent in that area you are a qualified electrician by the very definition of the words.
@@beardedsparks2825 I understand what you mean, but how would you describe somebody who has the relevant qualifications for installing electrical circuits exactly? They are a professional working with electricity exactly the same way with the same tools and the same knowledge is required as the official "electrician" IMO there should be classifications to identify the skill level because even fully qualified Sparks don't have all the qualifications so how are they fully qualified? Level 4? Level 5? They don't count.
@@beardedsparks2825 I think in the USA we have more general contractors who will do at least some of the electrical work in addition to the other aspects of a construction job. There are advantages and disadvantages to this. True, I've seen some electrical details that would have been done better by an electrician. But, I've also seen projects be better organized and integrated when a single person can do the proper work (carpentry, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, insulation, drywall, ...) at the proper time. If the schedules of different tradespeople don't match and someone arrives 1-2 days later than expected then someone with general skills can maintain project quality by getting the needed work done.
@@beardedsparks2825 no, you’d be a first aider as that’s your qualification and what you’re doing. I’ve never once gone to a Dr for first aid, and if I did, I’d expect to be told to get lost.
C and g level 2 and 3 and my wiring regs and 10 years in the industry and on most jobs i still command 200 quid a shift and do all the things an electrician does. Spent the last 3 years terminating swa from 70 mm to 300mm 4 cores on one of the biggest jobs in europe. Paperwork isnt everything i think
Im still baffled as ive done my nvq level 3 electrical installation including level 2 ofcourse, just to realise i should have went on an apprenticeship, my real question is can i do my am2 and become qualified electrician or how long do i have to wait before I attempted that exam?
I believe you now have to do a portfolio first via work, and then an AM2 but this is only to get a JIB gold card which isn't the same thing as being 'fully qualified'. You're already fully qualified.
Okay i understand what you’re saying but when im on a electrical job im only classed as a labourer or an electricians mate and im obviously getting paid a lot less than an electrician with a gold card despite doing the same wiring
@@ismaelidrissi5036 You need to sort that with the employer - they don't have to only pay you JIB rates, if that were the case all sparks would only be on £15 an hour. If i were you i'd make it clear that despite the paperwork not being in order i am qualified and therefore want qualified wages or i go find work elsewhere. You could move to London and get £80 an hour housebashing.
This is an important point that has been made . It would devalue the years of work put into an apprenticeship and the two years of working on the tools following to become JIB approved if someone could do a quick collage corse and call themselves qualified. Maybe The colleges should make it clear what part they are selling people. Saying that I sincerely hope this guy can get an appointment with a company and move forward in his new career. Always learning new things is a great thing whatever
I’m currently doing my L2&L3 c&g 2365 and working with an electrician 2 days a week so have an opportunity to do a portfolio where can I get one from/download?
During level 3 at college make sure you get your 18th edition and the testing and inspection. Then you're a qualified spark. To be 'fully qualified' to JIB standards (bear in mind they're not the authority but just an awarding body) you also need AM2 + portfolio. This is all semantics about the name of what an 'electrician' really is an means nothing in the real world where if you're confident and capable with the paperwork, you're a spark, end of story.
What about someone like me who was an apprentice and completed 3 years at night school to then work in the industry for nearly 30 years. At what point did I stop being an electrician? None of the current requirements even existed back then?
You didn't however training 30 years ago was somewhat different. One of the biggest differences as far as I can see is when it comes to test and inspection which possibly wasn't such a big thing back then, but you are right those goal posts are constantly moving
An excellent, honest and informative video, as always. I find it a very interesting topic, and it goes beyond the "qualified electrician" question/debate. Unfortunately the UK is quite poor at protecting professions and names. They do it on a certain level with the prefixes of "State registered" and "Chartered", but the general public are largely ignorant of this. Even the titles of Technician and Engineer are bandied about like jokes, for example Refuse Technician - Dustman. As a footnote, it is actually illegal to call yourself a Doctor without completing the requisite academic and post graduate training and assessment, but I do understand your very valid point.
Thanks for picking this topic up Gaz. What organisation actually defines what a UK Qualified Electrician has to have completed? Is the mandatory structure and content of an apprenticeship defined? Is the content of the portfolio defined? Sorry for all the questions that you may or may not have time to answer and I should be able to research without leaning on you!
I am interested in retraining as a electrician. I am 30. I am thinking of doing c&g level 2 at night part time, when finishing the course working as a electricians labourer, would I be able to work as a labourer for a few years and then just have some kind of on site assessment? I understand that I would need a couple of short courses like am2 etc… but would this be a viable option as common sense tells me electricians labourers get a much higher hourly rate than a apprentice, and can ultimately both end up qualified?
There are many types of Doctors and Pilots. Why can't there be different types of electrician's? Gary to the point and well worth bringing up the subject, especially as in the current climate some people are needing to retrain to pay the bills.
@@michaeldunham3385 they are the sectors there is many electrical roles inside of these sectors with each role being able to call themselves an electrician
Hello Gaz and the efixx crew, A paraphrased conversation I keep hearing/reading - 'if you haven't done an apprenticeship, you are not a fully qualified electrician, You need to do an apprenticeship'. And sadly that's where the conversation usually finishes. For various reasons that pathway is most probably not going to work for older people (20+?). There does seem to be a big problem with a) no clear roadmap if you are older/retraining b) little help and a negative attitude from some electrical 'authorities'. As other have rightly said, of course we would be very wrong to think that just doing a couple of years of study and some exams, that you are then well placed to do significant electrical work, and to do it safely. I wholeheartedly agree that all the courses and books are no substitute for experience. In real life - experience is king. As humans we all suffer from many biases including that people with low ability find it very difficult to recognize their lack of ability (the so called 'Dunning-Kruger effect'). Also important surely is a good attitude and a 'life long learning' approach, as the rate of change is getting ever faster and there is much yet which can and should be learned, and not inwardly thinking 'I know it all - I'm time-served'. As another 'mature' student studying the level 2 & 3 etc, I also found it very difficult to get an clear answer to how to retrain to become an electrician. After lots of searching I found the following, which does seem to be the authoritative source on the theory of what is required, but rather short on any practical help:- electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/building-regulations/electrotechnical-assessment-specification/ So more help and advice needed! Thank you very much of all the time and work you put into your TH-cam Channel - we all appreciate it. cheers.
I have 2 questions . 1. I have done level 2 ,3 and the 18th edition about 3 years ago , I am looking to start the portfolio soon . Will I have to complete the 18th edition amendment 1 to gain the gold card aswell as am2 ? 2. If you do not have a gold card but you have the inspection and testing qualification, can you sign off work for domestic and commercial/ industrial , or would you only be able to sign of domestic work if you was with niceic ect?
A tradesperson was to keep the working man in his place in the old days and it did that. There needs to be a change from school then to college training . Example. I phoned Blackburn college and Lancaster college two years ago about Electric car courses. They both replied there are no courses available. They had not even thought of this . So it starts all over again with no apprenticeships available so self teaching `is the only way forward. 5 years from now colleges will start teaching DC electrics, but then will not recognize a self taught person because of their lack of foresight. On youtube most EV cars , Electric skateboards, bikes clips, etc. are from self taught persons.There is a whole new world of DC. electrics here now. I do like eFIXX on youtube. You're ahead of the others.
I now have a Gold Card. I put off applying because I have old qualifications which I thought wouldn’t be recognised. Thought I’d be rejected and waste my money. But it went through OK with no problem. To seal the deal I did need 18th edition which I had done. I also did 2391-52 as CPD and had an opportunity to do it. I am actually quite chuffed with my JIB card because it’s new fangled, seemingly sought after and I’m a tatty old dog.
But how can companies selling these night schools and 18 day courses get away with what they advertise. This is one example, taken directly from a companies website I've copied and pasted. Which after reading sounds ridiculous. This is from their 18 day "Domestic Electrician course" 'You’ll have the skills, knowledge and qualifications to get a job or set yourself up as a domestic electrical installer. This means you can do everything from new sockets and light fittings up to a complete house re-wire, and be seen as competent and safe to do so. You’ll be equipped to satisfy the new updated building control regulations and have the relevant qualifications in installing, testing and inspecting - so you can take on both notifiable and non-notifiable work. Most people who train on this course eventually set up as self-employed domestic electricians' Now in 18 days you dont even cover a re-wire. Or even practice removing and or installing an MCB into a board. How can they get away with that? It even states "seen as competent." Well if you don't complete or even practice something on their course you would not be considered competent surely? They're totally selling it to you to just get your money. Not helpful to anyone. Just seems they are after your hard earned money. I'd really like to hear what you think on this. And the particular statement above taken from an 18 day course... Great video as always Gaz. Keep them coming!
I think the key thing a lot aren't noticing is these courses do teach you how to do all of that with qualifications, however, they don't teach you what you do when things go wrong or how exactly you get that cable from A to B without making it look ugly. I think you're wondering how you can learn all the different ways to run cables, all the tools, materials etc and their uses etc etc etc in 18 days but they're only teaching the regulations and how to work safely so that when you go out and do your own thing you're doing it correctly but will need to learn a TONNE more to be a decent spark.
I must be the all time sucker for evening classes 2365, 2382(17th Ed). 2394, 2395, ECS white labourers card., clean driving licence and attempted 2396 I’m looking for a job that I can finish qualifying on. I’d have asked:-“ Well so I have these certificates are they going to be counted as credits towards my apprenticeship should I find one ?’ Wouldn’t that make it a lot shorter ?” What are the AM2E requirements^.?
Hi to all, having been through both sides of the coin as electrician and college lecturer & assessor , I have experienced the different routes to be an electrician with over 35 years vocational knowledge. I believe their are many different routes to gain your electrical qualifications , some clear, some easier , again depends on your circumstances . Due to the ever changing employment world and training requirements we do need more than 1 route to upskill the nation. It all changed 2012 due to NVQ requirements for new QS & QM and the onset of CDM regulations ( greater use of ECS cards) to show competencies., in the old days I showed my JIB card 3 times over 10 years ....
Sometimes I think with all the hoops you jump through ,and the money (jib rates) it sometimes doesn't seem worth it ,but saying that I really enjoyed my time as an industrial sparky.
But them qualification dint mean much aswell iv seen so called qualifie electricians and the poor quality work they produce its shocking really. And uv seen good mates that are better than those so called qualified electricians
Great video Gary and this is all the information I've been looking for as I want to get into the trade. It might be different for me as I'm a qualified electronics engineer and can fault find complex pcbs all day and have transferable skills I believe. But it seems to be a closed or members only club. Just to pick up on something that was mentioned as I've always wondered this, if I was to pass for example a night course to level 3, and carry out work in a property (my own for example) and have someone come to verify that the work is upto standard. Then I would be classed as a verified domestic installer, but if I could build up a portfolio on that property through fault finding and various installation methods etc and have them all checked by someone external, could or would I be a qualified electrician?
Personally i believe the problem is the definition of "qualified electrician" . Its a narrow term in a very wide ranging sector, with different levels of competency, that competence being a combination of structured learning, knowledge, disciplines and experience.
Ive just started the course for level 3 and I'm 63 years old. What jobs can I ndertake as a DEI? Obviously nothing that is notifiable I understand this, But have you any suggestions. Nice informative vid. regards and stay safe. Bill.
I'm in my 60s now and I am not recognised as a sparky anymore. I started in the 1970s specialising in industrial. Pyro, conduit, SWA etc. Recently, I had to travel 85 miles a day to make dozens of pyro ends off on a fire alarm panel being relocated. None of the o site sparks could do it. Shorts on every end, or low resistance. Black finger marks everywhere and all the cables looking crinkly. The guys on site, very nice guys, all niceic registered, couldn't do the old school works. I did the job in record time, all clean, cables neatly dressed and fully fixed. But, I'm not recognised as a sparky anymore? I cant wait to retire. Lol!
I'm in Australia, I've done my Pre-Apprentiship Electrical but I don't have anyone taking me on as an apprentice so I wasted my time and I decided to work in the factory instead.😢😢
So can I have advice, currently looking to be adult learner. My route I'd like to get to is domestic installer. What are my options? While working full time?.
They would be the last organisations I would ask. Be extremely careful when taking advice from them. They will generally try to sell you training courses that are not transferable to other bodies. Take it from someone who has worked in the industry all his working life and has been privy to all the underhanded things that have gone on since the introduction of Part P.
Route 1: Get an apprenticeship. Not likely but maybe doable by a miracle from God. Route 2: Go to college, do the Levels 2+3. Get the 18th edition and inspection and testing alongside/immediately after. Then go out to work, maybe start domestic, only do work you feel comfortable with, etc. Or try to get work alongside someone as an 'improver'. Route 3: Do a short course which has all the exact same theoretical quals as going to college but can be done much faster. Then go out to work, maybe start domestic, only do work you feel comfortable with, etc. Or try to get work alongside someone as an 'improver'. My preferred route would be the apprenticeship for obvious reasons but the money is shit. Second would be college since it is more in depth and takes longer (72 months two days a week [so 144 weeks] instead of 17 weeks with T***eSk***s.) and they may be able to hook you up with a firm. The drawback is not being able to work those days or having to do it at night, and then even after that you're not considered qualified by some since you have little real experience. Third would be the short course route but if i did this i would definitely only look for really basic domestic work or a mate or 'improver' position after to gain experience. At the end of the day if you really take in the knowledge and do your homework, and ask loads of questions, you will be safe in a domestic setting with those quals because the technical knowledge is the same as you get on an apprenticeship. You just have to know your limits and try to learn whenever you can. Working along side someone decent is best though. Having said that, i know time served blokes who spent the first two years of their 3 year apprenticeships sweeping up, getting materials, brewing tea and getting buttys from the shop. I know a time served joiner who can't hang a door. I know a time served decorator who cannot hang paper or cut in properly. The time you put in will dictate the rewards you'll reap. And at the end of it if you can work as a spark who cares whether someone else deems you a 'real' electrician or not.
Hi gaz, very interesting video this thanks for sharing it. Quick question as an adult learner if someone has done the level 2 with one training provider is it possible to move onto the level 3 with a different company/training provider.
As a 30 year old, what do I need in order to advertise myself as an electrician to install a new socket in a customers house, legally? I’ve worked along side an electrician part time for a couple years and can do 1st/2nd fix and have done board changes etc. Do I need to be qualified to legally do electrics in a customers house?
You need to be a member of a CPS scheme - eg NICEIC or NAPIT and have liability insurance. Otherwise you’ll have to notify LABC for every job depending upon the scope of the work.
So the answer is no, you don't need any qualifications to carry out electrical installation work in a customer's house. Public Liability Insurance isn't a requirement either. However, if something goes wrong, you're going to pay out of your own pocket to put things right.
Hi Gaz speaking from Ireland love the show with some great info 👍 is it the same criteriain the republic of ireland for any who is older to think about training etc....
Is it true to say that in view of the current range of equipment on offer these days that external influences (what an electrician uses to decide what equipment he/she will use), are now obscelete? I'd like to point out here that by no means am I advocating the use of non British Standard products for use in the electrical field. To my knowledge the crossing of fields causes fires.
I would say this qualified Electrician business needs sorting out you need to do a five year apprenticeship and at least three years day release at college like i did in the old days Gary you probably did the same when you worked for EMEB also what role does the JIB play in this situation am i right in saying once you have got your grade card with Electrician stamped on it you then can call yourself an Electrician done and dusted The rules need to be set out making it nice and clear for everybody. What are your ideas on this subject i would be interested in your feed back. from Mike Scott.
So with a level 2 and 3 2365 I wouldn’t be able to go and works as an electricians mate !? Watching this suggest that what your saying is if your not 16 and going down an apprentice route, your going to struggle to find work and get the experience to become a ‘qualified electrician’. Poor bloke has come on here to answer and ask questions but has just had his hopes and dreams flushed down the drain. Keep you head up !
Back in the 90's the AM2 was for grading apprentice electricians, if you passed the exam you were made up to an electrician. Now the JIB use this as the bench mark. Its all down to technical skills of the individual. Regardless of what qualification route they followed. If a person can bend conduit, manufacture trunking bends, install a radial circuit, ring main two way with an intermediate switch which also contains an emergency lighting test switch. Make a pyro end off or terminate an swa cable. I would give them a job, and its a bonus if they can test. Who cares about a jib card, it doesnt make you a better electrician. Yes you needs to pass the health and safety exam every five years. But thats it. The person who really decides if you can cut the cloth is your boss, and that should be evident at the interview. On a side note i saw a job advertised, Electrician require must have a gold card or similar, i am not aware of any other card. This is because there is a skills shortage and the jib are stopping others from filling these roles, but really they should be encouraging people to fill the skill gap. I have posted similar comments on forums such has parky whinger, and the hosts never respond.
Interesting video, I'm I guess in a similar position to Richard, although I knew going in I wasn't gonna become a fully qualified electrician. Rhymes with Grangehill, and offers quick "domestic electrician" training courses, you do receive good training, and relevant qualifications, and being an adult retrainer, switching from a 17 year printing background into ev charging, it seemed like the way to go. Couple more days of the course left to do myself, but the current lockdown has brought it to a halt. I do know they get looked down on by a lot of fully qualified electricians, but when your mid 30's or older, and wanting to join the industry, there isn't necessarily a lot of options to begin with.
Too right mate. People wouldn't go there if there wasn't a lack of opportunities for anyone over the age of 23. All this 'no age discrimination' stuff is all tosh. My cv is 18 years of domestic building experience with an intense interest in electrics, can do almost every job to a decent standard, own tools, insurance, van, willing to work for 16 year old apprentice wages, can buy all ppe and necessary books etc myself, even offered to fund college out of my own pocket. Rejected for every apprenticeship i've ever applied for because i'm 34, even though that's never the reason they give. They'd rather hire a 16 year old who fell into it out of 'well what else should i do' who will stand on their phone all day, will be borrowing tools and will need picking up every morning because they can't drive. They get more money for training up kids but i would bring miles more value to them. So now i'm going back to proper college to get Lvl 2 and 3. Last resort woulda been one of these 20 week training providers. They are the same in terms of theoretical knowledge but the experience is something that you'll lack and you cannot buy it. A good route to go after you get your certs from them is to go as an electrician's mate or 'improver' to get your foot in the door.
I’m in this exact predicament, it’s was only when I went to try and get an ECS card that I realised I couldn’t. I was working full time at a non electrical job whilst at college so never did a portfolio etc. I’m now looking down the barrel of 2.5/3k to do this now even though been on the tools for a good few years now 😢.
As am I Joanna. Doing my weekend course at lv2 atm, but colleges are closed again so can't take my exams. How are you going about building your portfolio? What do you have to do?
@@carrot5648 nothing at the moment!! I can’t afford to do it. I looked into it and there are lots of people offering experienced ‘NVQ,s’ but just don’t have the funds. Just hoping I can muddle on without it!
The expericened installer route is probably your best option. You could apply for an experienced worker ECS card which would give you 18 months togain the necessary qualifications for the Gold card if you feel that's what you need
He means it's no longer called an NVQ it's now called a portfolio of work, but essential you still need a portfolio which previously you would have developed in a NVQ, which from what he said is now referred to as just a portfolio of your work demonstrating your competent, possibly any courses still refering to NVQ are out of date and maybe choose somewhere more up to date.
Apprentices have a gateway which is an AM2S skills test. They still gather site evidence like the old NVQ but that elements is no longer called an NVQ. Thanks Gaz
@@Brucey367 you can still build a qualification that has an NVQ in it but the apprentice route uses AM2S as the gateway. Joe will follow this video up in the coming weeks.
We need guys like this to retrain my only issue after the 5 week Part P sparky qualification debacle is the industry needs to recognise the difference between a domestic electrician and a industrial commercial electrician. Said it for years that domestic electricians should get qualified in 2 years then if they want to step up to I&C then they can be taken on via an Improver grade for 1-2 years. I ran I&C jobs and when a mature domestic electrician started they were not best pleased having a 22yo in charge of them . Some went back to domestics but the rest progressed and picked up new skills making them more employable. It took me 6 years to get approved grade. Plus I am in Scotland so never had to see or go through Part P. The industry is crying out for these types of guys so best of luck to him in his studies
My wife is a doctor, and she got very little hands on experience at university. Its mostly theory based at university. She was still called a doctor when she graduated. She only really started getting hands on experience when she started working. Also she could not do operations on her own or really work alone for quite some time after graduating. Have you ever watched Grey's Anatomy? They are very inexperienced when they graduate and become doctors but they are still doctors. One of my friends is a pilot flying planes. Everyone calls him a pilot, even the captain. He is actually the co pilot and needs more experience to become a captain. I have completed the 2365 level 2 and 3. Also have 15 years experience. Only thing I have done since I left school. Apparently I am not an electrican. WOW
Ok so I am about to start my level 2 , I had no option but to go for the EAL qualification. It runs for just over 40 weeks (just for the level 2) and was told it's the same qualification as C&G. Why is there so much stigma surrounding EAL, everyone I've spoken to have said those courses churn out Sparky's overnight steer clear .. it runs the same length as a C&G. it's cost me a fair amount of money and I'm worried I won't get on as a mate (where the real education starts) when I get the level 3 after 2 years on the course. I will be trying to get in with a local spark for weekend work (work for free) to expand my knowledge base once I get level 2 under my belt.
I work in the washrooms/hygiene industry installing hand dryers, air sterilizers etc, some of the work I have seen from "qualified" electricians (including our own) quite frankly shocks (excuse the pun) me. The standards from what I've seen in the commercial sector are very low, very much a smash it on the wall and bog off to the next job attitude. Nothings level, no cord ends on flex, best practice or don't both getting your tools out the van.
If it’s any consolation, the aviation industry is going the same way. I’m a commercial pilot for a major Uk airline and I went the traditional route of training progressing through aircraft types to reach what I’m on now. There is now a fast-tracked route called Multicrew pilots license (MPL-aka “monkey pilot license”). These people are trained day one on big jets having never flown solo in their lives. So yes they can call themselves a pilot, but it doesn’t mean they have the same experience or even the same skill as someone who did the long route in.
BUT - isn't it now the case that you could take the route of domestic installer, work in the industry for three years, and, as long as in that time, you study up to at least 2365 L2, you can then apply for entry via the EWR, and gain fully qualified status that way? Yes, the Skills Scan might pick up other points, and yes, it would be better to have the L3 as well, but this provides an opportunity for those of us who are a certain age, have other commitments, and couldn't get an apprenticeship any more than the winning lottery ticket. Nobody is saying that on the job experience isn't important, but also, there has to be some way into the industry beyond the apprenticeship route, which simply isn't possible for various reasons past a certain age...
Efixx, I am unaware of any legal requirement for someone working as an electrician in the UK to hold any qualifications. As far as I know, anyone meeting the dictionary definition can call him or herself an electrician, and having any electrical qualification would make that person a 'qualified electrician'. It's not realistic IMO to compare a spark to a doctor, surgeon, or pilot, as to legally work in those professions does require a license. Perhaps you know different, i would be grateful for your input.
Its like working for a campany for years gaining experience then they go bust How can u prove that experience after .If u feel competent then u are papers go with u bit that changes.Math is math dosnt change in electrics because u got new qual only regs change usually fo to either money or new designs and materials available. 4:01
I normally enjoy these videos, but this one is wrong. Your pilot example is as diffren as apples and oranges. All you need is to complete level 2 & 3 qualification in electrical installation. You also need regs and test and inspect cert. Of course you need experience but if you have the above you are a qualified electrician. This is an old boys network trying to exclude any one who has not taken the apprenticeship route. A route that often involves young people being used as cheap labour for year one. The fact that they attend college 1 day a week is no diffren to the qualifications you will get from part time or night school in fact many of the attendees of theses courses are on an apprenticeship. The real diffrence is the experience they get during the apprenticeship, this can vary vastly depending on who your apprenticeship I. In a nut shell the diffrence is experience and how you gain it. One you have the relevant qualifications and experience you are a qualified electrician. You might not get on with some of the big commercial firms, but that's not because your not recognised that the old boys network at hand
Having seen a similar video, it turns out I was miss sold a course by a training provider. For the sake of my integrity after finding out I could not call myself an electrician, I had to close a business I was trying to build up, I’ve lost thousands of pounds during the whole process. I’m currently working in a job completely unrelated to anything electrical to pay the bills. Due to this global pandemic I’m struggling to find someone who might take me on to help me gain some more experience. Quite frankly the industry has ruined my life.
The industry hasn't ruined your life I'm afraid. If the training provider really did mis-sell you training, then the blame is squarely on their shoulders.
How about this for an analogy.... Are you a magician or an entertainer? As an entertainer you could be a skilled magician or vice versa. I would rather a Domestic Installer who takes pride in their work than a 'fully qualified electrician' who doesn't give a damn. Have you seen the state of some of the wiring on these new builds being knocked up in a week? In my mind, regular assessment on the work that is carried out by the individual, whatever that may be, is strict, frequent and essential to ensure safe working practices are being adhered to. My name is Pete and I am a Domestic Installer........... :)
hi Pete,you are an electrician ,point blank , you don't see this type of snobbery of who & who is not an electrician in the rest of europe ,only the uk
If you complete (i.e graduate from) an electrical and electronic ENGINEERING degree however (as I and many friends & colleagues did - on a 4 year thin sandwich course), at the end you ARE an engineer! WITH 18 months or more of real world engineering experience! When completing a suitable HND course, similarly at the end of the diploma course you would be a qualified engineer. Why is the HNC not suitable for a technician level qualification such as electrician? Seems to be a complete mismatch somewhere.
Hi Gary nice video and very helpful. I class myself as an Electrician, i've read hundreds of books, been an approved contractor with the NICEIC FOR 8 YEARS and 3 with Napit. Regarding qualifications all I have is 17th/18th edition, 2391,2392 and part p. On site fully competent in re-wires and EICRS and fault finding. If i'm not an electrician what am I?
you aren’t an electrician, don’t matter how many people you cut open or how good you are at it don’t make you a doctor unless you have the qualifications to say so
You don't have to do an apprenticeship to be a fully qualified electrician, you need to do level 2, and level 3 C+G or EAL at college (night or day it makes no difference you still.do the same work and take the same exams) have the 18th edition do an am2 (am2e/s which ever one it is now) 2391-52 and the NVQ/portfolio once you've done all of those you are recognised as an electrician the caveat with the portfolio is that in order to do it you need to be employed and working for an already qualified electrician all this still takes at least 3 years to complete, that's how I did it and I'm recognised as a fully qualified electrician by the JIB ECS and any certification scheme I choose to go with. I've heard this alot myself "you're not fully qualified because you didn't do an apprenticeship" yet I've done the same exams, had the same formal training, done the same assessments, have the same certificates from the same institutions and have more experience if anything because I didn't miss days work for college as I did it after work (If you assume im fresh of the press as it were) the only difference is I wasn't an apprentice so how can I or anyone who chose/chooses the same avenue as myself not be fully qualified?
Nice video Gaz , please may you explain to me and will be helpfull to others as well. How was possible that UK sparky works like sparky in EU (eu regs, eu norms, ....) without any EU training (reg, school, etc...) and EU sparkies can NOT works in UK (before brexit) without AM2 on comecial sites (domestic is totaly diferent even for cowboys 😤). I do not mean Sparky job like be mate, ...
im so confused, so to be an electrician you have to do courses 1 to 3 and after that an apprenticeship? im trying to get in to college for adult part time because i cant get an apprenticeship its just impossible and now im hearing you do the adult part time then after that you do an apprenticeship aswel?
Well after the level 3, you can qualified to become an electrician mate or improver. Meaning, you can do the nvq to fill up your portfolio and then completing the am2 afterwards. I’m nearly finishing my level 3 myself this year and will try to get a job as a labourer first to get the onsite experience and then save up the money to complete the 18th edition and ipaf or plasma qals. This should ideally make me more attractive to potential employers. But will see in a few months for me whether it pays off
Are you seriously comparing learning how to join a few wires up with being a doctor or solicitor? 😂 a few days training would be plenty. Some primary school maths and how to use a screwdriver and your sorted 👌
New Video - Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I promise you now that an adult learner that cares but can’t call him/her self an “electrician” is far more valuable than someone thats done an apprenticeship that doesn’t care✌🏻
Great point
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
@William Tell I completely agree with your points. Attitude is just as important as training and experience. Ideally, a good electrician has all three.
I think the argument made in the video is based on the criteria to obtain an ECS “gold” card. Rightly or wrongly.
The Gold Card requires a Level 3 NVQ as well as one of the AM2 variants. Many construction sites will not consider you an electrician unless you have a Gold Card, although you can usually still work using an “Electrical Labourer” or “Trainee Electrician” ECS card.
I’m in my late 30’s only have level 3 city and guilds all paid for by myself. Only 3 years on the job. I agree with that. Apprentices who’ve come through the process haven’t impressed me at all. Think they’re owed something. Qualifications aren’t everything. Pride of work, dedication and focus is what a true tradesmen has.
So having C&G 2330 lvl 2-3 , 16th-17th-18th edition regs , C&G 2392 and C&G 2391 inspection & testing and having my work assessed every year by Napit , stroma for the last 12 years while I work independently and certificate all my work makes me at best an electrical labour 😂😂😂😂 ok . Just because the JIB only class their route into the industry being a AM2 / NVQ doesn’t mean it’s the only route . I suppose if I ever had to work on a site with JIB rates I’d only be a labour but can’t see me doing that any time soon 😂😂😂😂
Good point Robert. Thanks Gaz
Had a similar problem, have a hnd degree in marine electro technology yet wasnt able to switch that over for a land based job
@@thattoolguy9432 that’s disappointing
@@efixx JIB for you mate, anything to spin coin out of your wallet
@@thattoolguy9432 oh no.... bless your cotton socks
I can see exactly where he is coming from. I was a class 1 HGV driver for 14 years and re-trained as an electrician. It is NOT easy being and adult and juggling responsibilities and training. It worked out for me in the end and I worked my way up to being an NICEIC assessed qualified supervisor in the company I worked for. But starting off was really hard financially.
Thanks for the video as always and congratulations to Richard for following his dreams.
Dare I say it, but I think the debate about electrician or qualified electrician may be missing the point. To most outside the industry, an electrician is someone who fixes the wiring. If someone were to say to them, ‘I’m not an electrician, I’m a domestic installer’ I reckon they would go away and find someone who is willing to call themselves an electrician. Electrical work is so broad that nobody can do it all; the DNO teams probably aren’t members of a CPS scheme but are far more skilled in working underground, in confined spaces, live and in the presence of HV. And then there’s the HV side itself.
To me the key marker is professionalism, which is having high standards, knowing your limits and being prepared to turn down work which you cannot do to those high standards. That applies during a job too, so being prepared to accept defeat and call in help if it is more complex than expected. It also applies to the more peripheral aspects; most domestic installations are electrically fairly simple with the skill being in fault finding and extending where the access is difficult and the maintenance poor.
I've see the work of plenty of "proper" electricians who have done apprenticeships... Say no more...
When I did my 18th, my first electrical qualification, I was shocked at the lack of knowledge of these apprentice served electricians who may have held their 17th for donkeys years but just do things the way they always have. The whole system is outdated and the old boys club like this guy like to look down on people who are new to the industry when its perfectly possible to work hard, study for qualifications suited to what you want to do (ie domestic installer) and take a bit of pride in your work.. Do that and you'd be better than most!!
Thanks for your detailed comment very much appreciated. Gaz
The system is not outdated at all and what Gary is saying is the truth. There may very well be qualified electricians out there who are poor, but there are equally guys out there who aren't properly qualified who are also poor.
So true
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
17th edition not that long ago 2008 and last amendment of it was like 2015
Hi Gaz, as you know my story, I am proof you can retrain, and become a fully qualified, gold carded electrician. I'd love to share my experience and advice to people thinking of retraining. If you'd like to do a similar interview with me, that would be awesome . It'll be good to catch up too
100% Ben.
@@efixx let me know when it is possible Gaz
Same..
@@efixx I would like to see this as I am currently going down the retraining route and would like to see my options once I have completed my level 3 and hear people's stories of retraining. Informative video :)
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Competence is the eye of the law is hard to demonstrate. I always use the SKATE acronym. SKILLS KNOWLEDGE ATTITUDE TRAINING and EXPERIENCE. It takes time to fulfil and there is no set rule or route
100%
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
When i did my 236 parts 1 & 2, i was told by the college at enrolment, this course was equal to the jib and part 2 will qualify you as an electrician. I backed up the above qualifications with the original 2391, 16th, 17th and 18th editions. So having listen to your comments, are you now telling me i am not an electrician and my qualifications are worthless? By the way i am an NICEIC QS, for a very large jib contactor and spend most of my time educating the gold card brigade on how to install and test it correctly. I often think jib contractors should undertake a skill assement of their electricians when they re new there esc card.
I think education aside... you can be told what courses would benefit you the most but at the end of the day, they should test your competence rather than check your qualifications... being competent and being qualified are 2 different things and some of the best electricians I worked with were old school experienced sparks with no formal qualifications but they were competent
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Steve I have exactly the same qualifications as you. Hearing what Gaz as to say is a kick I the bollox to say the least.
@@sparkygazza gary, have a look on the niceic web site for the EAS, gold card route. The niceic recognise city and guilds 236 parts 1 & 2. To get the gold via the EAS route fill in the questionnaire detailing your working history and experiences, they will review this and if you meet their criteria you just have to do the am2. So no faffing about with portfolios or someone face timing you and watching you install containment. this is to stop the college on monday, electrician on friday scenario. I still disagree with having to do the am2 but things change and we have to move with the times. I am not sure if the jib have / do something similar.
Looks that way Steve, you can't expect to be called an electrician with no evidence of practical experience
Hi guys
I am 68 years old , back in the days I trained as an apprentice, qualified under the old HND qualifications , was head of a electrical planning and design department, designed electrical installations for hospitals etc , left the industry in the Late 90s ( 16 th edition ) used to go onsite and do testing and handovers etc .
I have very recently rewired a 2 bed little bungalow i intend to rent out . Did a little bit of reading and don’t see huge changes over 30 years , apparently I’m no longer an electrician.
That’s the problem with the “part P” system within the domestic sector. We imagine you did a brilliant job!
Thanks for your kind comments, in 1827 Geordie Ohm ( I’m a Geordie 😂) made a brilliant observation regarding the connection between pressure , flow and resistance. Once you fully understand this you’ve got the basics of electricity , I’m not quite sure all of the so called Approved Electrical engineers really understand the importance of this theory .
I’ve been asked many times to query so called ECIR reports and it’s quite frightening . I’m not moaning or complaining, at the end of the day I spend most of my time on a golf course . It’s just a bit bizarre that one day someone who doesn’t know me or my ability decides I’m not a competent person .
Massive thanks for all the comments, help and advice people are giving in the comments it is very much appreciated. Gaz
in the olden days,1966.i had to do a 5 year apprentiship.i worked in industrial electrics,i also learnt about domestic electrics by working with my electrician on house work.this idea of becoming an electrician after a short course is crazy to me.
Welcome to 21st century Britian where we have people doing a 6 week course are let loose
Great comment.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Everything said was pretty much out of the JIB handbook however there currently isn't any laws in this country requiring you must hold hold these qualifications, you only need to be Part P accredited to test electrical work in domestic properties not that Joe public would be aware of this. Until this country starts treating electrical work the same way we do gas, all this is just a discussion point. You don't need to hold a JIB card to call yourself an electrician.
I don't hold a JIB card but I call myself an electrician.
And who works for jib rates thease days ? When I was a apprentice ( 1973). Things were so different we had elect mates. Some of them never wanted to be made up for the few extra pounds we got . Most said not worth the Agro , and I remember some of those mates were better than the sparks ..things have changed a hell of a lot more paper work , the safety. Is a lot better I never had a lap top or I phone. Just a pencil paper , and rubber.. I’ll retire this year I’ve worked all over uk and in France , and Germany .. loved it but the old back is playing up now and I get fed up with the young guys saying you ok oldie hahaha it’s amazing how many young guys have not done pyro ..yes the equipment is better now. I still have my wind up megger.., which I tell them to hold while I turn the handle ..will I miss it ? You know the laughs yes .. but to me the guys who keep making up thease rules for the 18 edition and so on imo must be shown to be doing something ..all the schooling only helps you prepare you never stop learning , and the best way is on the tools practice makes perfect .. many I have know read all the books . But on site that was not enough ..I’ve enjoyed my time as a spark. And I would do it all over again....
Seems like the college’s are in bed with the JIB.
@@rouman7 yeah I agree JIB rates are pretty poor and not much higher than you can get these days working in a warehouse. I think some companies still employ mates and you're right some are better than the allegedly qualified electricians. I doubt that they still teach them how to do Pyro, but that's progress I guess.
The regs do need to be updated to keep up with changing times and technology, but I'm not sure how they justify the cost of the new books
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
The stuff I've seen in my new build house that's "acceptable" really has shaken my faith in any kind of regulations / membership body. It's all about the cost cutting and not about doing a good job. Don't know how that is fixed at a systematic level. It must be impossible for decent, honest and good electricans to win work; the average Joe just won't know the difference until the worst happens.
Thanks for commenting. Gaz
Just a one way conversation regarding the discrepancy between the terms Electrician and Domestic Installer. Unfortunately, if a customer called me an ‘electrician’ whilst rewiring their property I would not sit them down and say I’m a domestic installer and explain why. It’s a question of perception outside the industry. You have pulled an adult learner in to tear them apart regarding a difference in perceptions. A pilot is a poor example... I could be a pilot of light aircraft but not commercial jets, do fundamentally the same things, but operate in different scopes. Normally enjoy your videos but this is particularly poor
Thanks for your feedback. Gaz
As with most, you completely missed the point of this video.
@@beardedsparks2825 not at all, Pal. The point is to demonstrate that what people refer to ‘electrician’ can not be obtained as quickly as a domestic installer accreditation.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Plenty of professions qualify by college/uni. Often with some kind of portfolio. The apprenticship system should not be the only route, it is a vocational route. You can even fast track to be a GP/doctor with a good first degree. Plenty of self interest in maintaining current arrangements.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
A competent Electrician is someone who has sufficient knowledge, skills and experience to safely carry out Electical work to a good standard. The key to safety and standards is willingness and attitude. All of the worst electricians I’ve met are “TIME SERVED MATE” who couldn’t understand the difference between earthing and bonding or why you need to test and verify all work undertaken, not just “THE BIG JOBS”.
Fantastic comment. Gaz
I’ve met some some guys out there who go on about serving 5 year apprenticeships who knew very little ( not all by the way as I’ve met some very good ones also).
The most knowledgeable guy I’ve worked with wouldn’t actually be classed as an electrician going off his qualifications but his attitude is first class so sets him apart from the rest.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
As a teacher I can confidently say that, in spite of qualifications, there are very few qualified electricians out there, most people who claim to be electricians are no more than installers.
Just ask someone to do a simple cable calculation or how to do a continuity test or even the difference between exposed and extraneous conductive parts and watch them go to pieces.
Even main contractors of large companies don't know how to do voltage drop!
The industry is in bits from where I'm standing.
Thanks for your input Steven. Gaz
@@efixx sorry about the moody comment, I suppose I see the best and the worst of it when I'm teaching.
I try to help improve these kids while battling against all the electricians on site who say that they don't really need to know all the stuff I'm teaching them.
@@stevenhopkins2925 I am 100% on your side Steven... Keep up the great work and commenting. Gaz
I think site work is were the skills have been lost. Just banging up basket tray and throwing t and e on it mean less qualified electricians are required.
Modifying and improving existing installations is were more skill and experience is required.
@@stevenhopkins2925 I was on a job doing it the way it should be done I was one time just checking in the regs book some Gob S says to me he never looks in the book do you even know what you are doing then kicks my tool box an tester. I ended up busting him up what you say is true I heard that you don't need to know that stuff but we do. I did volt drop calcs just so I knew it was OK. On one job I was testing round sockets an get told just plug the drill in see if it works. Watching this makes me think at 48 am waisting my time getting new papers as have 224 236 185 an 16th edition. I been reading up buying book from coming out of hospital well even before I was reading up watching youtube, I think now what is the point am 48 recovering from pancreatic cancer. I was hoping to just work for my self 2 to 3 days a week I have worked with so called level 2 an 3 an one asked my why the bathroom fan did not work after turning the light off he asked don't the capacitors hold charge an keep the fan on I say it needs a permanent live. What he then asked I then think can this man even dress him self and wipe his own back side. I would trust my cat more.
I remember during my HND audio engineering course (years back) our lecturers telling us we won't be "qualified" sound engineers, a shock to the system at that age but very true!! College/university can only teach you so much, you still require "real" world experience and even then every day can be a school day, even for the most qualified of people
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Well done Richard for your openness. I think it's time for the regulator to enforce a trainee journey explaining what you are paying for/ learning. At the end of courses you should have a clear training program showing what you are and what's next in becoming an electrician. Apprenticeships are only good if the training you receive is quality. Also, the company you are working for need to be descent. I've worked with qualified sparks who don't know anything. I've worked with labourers who have the 18th and are very experienced but won't move on. It's just a mess and the customers are suffering
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I've sort of been hit with this slightly. I did my training approx 18yrs ago. I was an adult trainee that managed to find a company willing to give me ago (I was in my late 20's). In 2 yrs I did 2351, 2360, 2377, 2381 (16th regs - I've done 17th and 18th since), Nvq3 & 2391. At the time I was told as an adult trainee you do either Nvq3 or your Am2 .So as I thought the Nvq 3 was more of a modern course (and was told the AM2 was old tat). So since then armed with my Approved Sparks Jib card I've been happily (mostly) working away as a sparky, lead sparky, testing electrician, Niceic QS then a Senior QS & now an Estimator. But I've since been told your not a qualified sparks as you don't have AM2. But I was told I didn't need it! So I've been told if I let my Gold card expire I will not get one again without an AM2. My argument is simply if the Regs aren't retrospective, why are your qualifications. They need to stop moving the goal posts.
Thanks for sharing your experiences it will help other that watch this channel - very much appreciated. Gaz 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
It's a constantly evolving industry which is why you have to prove ongoing competence. A bit like the IT industry. Makes sense to me, it's not like we're cutting hair in which basically only the tools change slightly over time. New regs, new products, new methods of construction, etc.
@@electricalstuff259 I've not got an issue with Updating regs course, doing CPD etc. Its just the bit with things like AM2, that I didn't need when I initially trained. But now there saying I do need.
@@Sparks6078 I would just see it as a 'new' add on that you have to get. You should have it done in a couple of days. Pricey though
Big fan of the channel & like the poor sod u had on there I’m at college doing the same course....You really can’t compare a surgeon or a pilot to a electrician, on a personal one I don’t think 5 years in the game will make much difference as there’s only one way to skin a cat....Rings are Rings radials are radials & having to work with a bunch of numties to prove this is shocking.....The fact that some so called electricians have gone down the apprenticeship route won’t make them any more knowledgeable than the next bloke....Dave Savery has proved this & have the upmost respect for someone who pretty much proves that putting the time I’m can get u there.
Ps the route to becoming a spark is out dated & not only for the kids but for adults too trying to find work is like gold dust it’s about time the colleges work alongside government to have some form of Site rigs with all the usual wiring systems so we cld all get on with getting into the electrical world.
Sorry Gazz but watching this Vid was painful & disappointing not coz u brought up some home truths about the path into becoming a spark but it was almost like u agreed with it.....C&G courses are stuck in the 70s with half the S••• wiring I’ve seen while working
Thanks for taking the time to add such a detailed comment it is very much appreciated. Gaz 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Bang on mate. The theoretical knowledge + a keen eye for details and pride in your work is all that is needed. Electricians like to make out that being an electrician is like rocket science and it's not. 32a, 2.5mm, rings. 20a, 2.5mm, radial. 6a, 1-1.5mm, lights.
If you want to go on to commercial and industrial you will probably have to shadow with someone for 6 months but the theoretical knowledge is the knowledge and that would be no different from someone who served time house bashing trying to go onto industrial 3-phase set ups - they're not gonna know what they're doing at first either.
The need to complete an “apprenticeship” is a massive deterrent for older adults to retrain in the industry. I get you need experience, but apprentices are really geared to people straight out of school.
You can register as domestic installer or approved contractor with NICEIC with a level 2
NIC have lost a lot of respect over the years for lowering their standards simply to increase their membership/profits
You only need 18th, not even level 2. But I’d like to see someone with just their 18th get through an inspection.
@@MrIbib great point 👍
NICEIC is appalling
i passed my domestic installer assessment with regs and 2391 and part 1 , i was at college doing my part 2
The system is a ball ache ... i trained as an ETO yet when i came shore side i couldn't use my qualifications to work anywhere in the electrical industry.. crazy
I posted a comment early but some fool said I was bulshitting so I deleted it, Try a couple of multiskills courses along side it and this way it should work. I had the same problem and now been working as a shift Engineer and also a self employed contractor.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
At 38 I went back to college with the support of my wife(maths teacher) and the company I worked for.
Nothing like being called "grandad" in a class of 17-25 year olds to add more pressure😂
3 years later levels 2 and 3, Am2, 17th edition and apprentice of the year 2010 I could call my self a electrician....not yet!
Made redundant and starting up as self employed I helped a mate doing domestic as I was commercial experienced then I completed 2391 and other courses but only now 10years later i now respond to "hey sparky..."
it's the experience doing the job that makes it and having a good few guys that don't mind a call to give advice when needed, Napit were really helpful too as other schemes were very chicken and egg. You need experience to join but to work you need the scheme so I changed my consumer unit as evidence and have been with them ever since😊
Good luck with your training but experience counts so ask a sparky if you could tag along 😉😊
Well said....My comments cld easily be misinterpreted experience counts but don’t feel that 2-5 years is realistic, gazz made a comment comparing it to a pilot I see where he was doing from but also very far fetched, I like to compare it to the black cabs why do 3-5 worth of the knowledge when we have the sat-nav for big forms to come along like Uber & F••• there industry up.....it’s only a matter of time before someone addresses the situation!
@@Stelyyabs24 I still really don’t trust the certification software it’s removing the checking process of our job But to stay competitive I’ve gone down the 21st century path.
But using it does that make me less qualified? I hate to think what the industry will be like in 10 years? Maybe an app for wiring a socket?
Training yes but experience is equally important 😊
Yes experience is as the video points out is important, but so is the technical knowledge
Brilliant comment and thanks for adding it to the video. Gaz 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Can you get an Apprenticeship after completing your level 3? Or do you have to do your level 3 as part of your apprenticeship?
In a nut shell- practical experience-theory & exams required.
I was lucky enough to start with a traditional apprenticeship as an electrician in 1980. I spent 14 years with the same company in electrical contracting, then moved onto a national refrigeration company as a refrigeration engineer who was also responsible for the electrical aspect of refrigeration and air conditioning installations for 5 years. Following that I moved into the facility maintenance sector as a multi skilled engineer and have been doing that for around 23 years now. I meet very many people these days that secure jobs as electricians in the facilities maintenance sector that have retrained at night school.
The problem is that they have the qualification and very often don’t have the practical experience so struggle with the work when sent out for fault finding or repairs.
My advice is to get onto an electrical contracting company to gain the experience and work in a team or a pair to get that valuable on site experience for at least a couple of years. Most managers on facilities maintenance companies just see the electrical qualification and assume you can do it all.
An Electrician is somebody who works with electricity as a profession. If you've got a qualification which means you are skilled and competent in that area you are a qualified electrician by the very definition of the words.
Great comment. Thanks Gaz
It doesn't work that way David. When I put a bandage on someone and I have a first aid qualification, does that make me a doctor?
@@beardedsparks2825 I understand what you mean, but how would you describe somebody who has the relevant qualifications for installing electrical circuits exactly? They are a professional working with electricity exactly the same way with the same tools and the same knowledge is required as the official "electrician" IMO there should be classifications to identify the skill level because even fully qualified Sparks don't have all the qualifications so how are they fully qualified? Level 4? Level 5? They don't count.
@@beardedsparks2825 I think in the USA we have more general contractors who will do at least some of the electrical work in addition to the other aspects of a construction job. There are advantages and disadvantages to this. True, I've seen some electrical details that would have been done better by an electrician. But, I've also seen projects be better organized and integrated when a single person can do the proper work (carpentry, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, insulation, drywall, ...) at the proper time. If the schedules of different tradespeople don't match and someone arrives 1-2 days later than expected then someone with general skills can maintain project quality by getting the needed work done.
@@beardedsparks2825 no, you’d be a first aider as that’s your qualification and what you’re doing.
I’ve never once gone to a Dr for first aid, and if I did, I’d expect to be told to get lost.
C and g level 2 and 3 and my wiring regs and 10 years in the industry and on most jobs i still command 200 quid a shift and do all the things an electrician does. Spent the last 3 years terminating swa from 70 mm to 300mm 4 cores on one of the biggest jobs in europe. Paperwork isnt everything i think
David Savery is my 'preferred' channel for his humour.
Im still baffled as ive done my nvq level 3 electrical installation including level 2 ofcourse, just to realise i should have went on an apprenticeship, my real question is can i do my am2 and become qualified electrician or how long do i have to wait before I attempted that exam?
I believe you now have to do a portfolio first via work, and then an AM2 but this is only to get a JIB gold card which isn't the same thing as being 'fully qualified'. You're already fully qualified.
Okay i understand what you’re saying but when im on a electrical job im only classed as a labourer or an electricians mate and im obviously getting paid a lot less than an electrician with a gold card despite doing the same wiring
@@ismaelidrissi5036 You need to sort that with the employer - they don't have to only pay you JIB rates, if that were the case all sparks would only be on £15 an hour.
If i were you i'd make it clear that despite the paperwork not being in order i am qualified and therefore want qualified wages or i go find work elsewhere.
You could move to London and get £80 an hour housebashing.
@@electricalstuff259 i did think about london tbh they earn a lot there but thanks for the advice mate
This is an important point that has been made . It would devalue the years of work put into an apprenticeship and the two years of working on the tools following to become JIB approved if someone could do a quick collage corse and call themselves qualified. Maybe The colleges should make it clear what part they are selling people. Saying that I sincerely hope this guy can get an appointment with a company and move forward in his new career. Always learning new things is a great thing whatever
Well said and thanks for adding your comment to this discussion. Gaz 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I’m currently doing my L2&L3 c&g 2365 and working with an electrician 2 days a week so have an opportunity to do a portfolio where can I get one from/download?
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
So I’ve just applied to do my level 2 for a career change and this video just killed my desire 😔
During level 3 at college make sure you get your 18th edition and the testing and inspection. Then you're a qualified spark. To be 'fully qualified' to JIB standards (bear in mind they're not the authority but just an awarding body) you also need AM2 + portfolio.
This is all semantics about the name of what an 'electrician' really is an means nothing in the real world where if you're confident and capable with the paperwork, you're a spark, end of story.
What about someone like me who was an apprentice and completed 3 years at night school to then work in the industry for nearly 30 years. At what point did I stop being an electrician? None of the current requirements even existed back then?
You didn't however training 30 years ago was somewhat different. One of the biggest differences as far as I can see is when it comes to test and inspection which possibly wasn't such a big thing back then, but you are right those goal posts are constantly moving
Look at the AM2E route. Gaz
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
An excellent, honest and informative video, as always. I find it a very interesting topic, and it goes beyond the "qualified electrician" question/debate. Unfortunately the UK is quite poor at protecting professions and names. They do it on a certain level with the prefixes of "State registered" and "Chartered", but the general public are largely ignorant of this. Even the titles of Technician and Engineer are bandied about like jokes, for example Refuse Technician - Dustman. As a footnote, it is actually illegal to call yourself a Doctor without completing the requisite academic and post graduate training and assessment, but I do understand your very valid point.
Thanks for picking this topic up Gaz. What organisation actually defines what a UK Qualified Electrician has to have completed? Is the mandatory structure and content of an apprenticeship defined? Is the content of the portfolio defined? Sorry for all the questions that you may or may not have time to answer and I should be able to research without leaning on you!
Joe will follow this video up in the coming weeks 👍. Keep the comments coming. Gaz
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I am interested in retraining as a electrician. I am 30. I am thinking of doing c&g level 2 at night part time, when finishing the course working as a electricians labourer, would I be able to work as a labourer for a few years and then just have some kind of on site assessment? I understand that I would need a couple of short courses like am2 etc… but would this be a viable option as common sense tells me electricians labourers get a much higher hourly rate than a apprentice, and can ultimately both end up qualified?
Yes if you build up enough examples of you installations
There are many types of Doctors and Pilots. Why can't there be different types of electrician's?
Gary to the point and well worth bringing up the subject, especially as in the current climate some people are needing to retrain to pay the bills.
There is, but at a level we start to use the term engineer
Actually there's 3 fields in electrical work, domestic, commercial & industrial. People often pick one area and specialise in that
I have re written these comments too many times now, Garry has struck a few cords for me :/
@@michaeldunham3385 they are the sectors there is many electrical roles inside of these sectors with each role being able to call themselves an electrician
What a great point to add into the mix. Thanks Gaz 👍
Brilliant advice. 👍
Hello Gaz and the efixx crew,
A paraphrased conversation I keep hearing/reading - 'if you haven't done an apprenticeship, you are not a fully qualified electrician, You need to do an apprenticeship'. And sadly that's where the conversation usually finishes. For various reasons that pathway is most probably not going to work for older people (20+?). There does seem to be a big problem with a) no clear roadmap if you are older/retraining b) little help and a negative attitude from some electrical 'authorities'.
As other have rightly said, of course we would be very wrong to think that just doing a couple of years of study and some exams, that you are then well placed to do significant electrical work, and to do it safely. I wholeheartedly agree that all the courses and books are no substitute for experience. In real life - experience is king. As humans we all suffer from many biases including that people with low ability find it very difficult to recognize their lack of ability (the so called 'Dunning-Kruger effect'). Also important surely is a good attitude and a 'life long learning' approach, as the rate of change is getting ever faster and there is much yet which can and should be learned, and not inwardly thinking 'I know it all - I'm time-served'.
As another 'mature' student studying the level 2 & 3 etc, I also found it very difficult to get an clear answer to how to retrain to become an electrician. After lots of searching I found the following, which does seem to be the authoritative source on the theory of what is required, but rather short on any practical help:-
electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/building-regulations/electrotechnical-assessment-specification/
So more help and advice needed!
Thank you very much of all the time and work you put into your TH-cam Channel - we all appreciate it. cheers.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I have 2 questions .
1. I have done level 2 ,3 and the 18th edition about 3 years ago , I am looking to start the portfolio soon . Will I have to complete the 18th edition amendment 1 to gain the gold card aswell as am2 ?
2. If you do not have a gold card but you have the inspection and testing qualification, can you sign off work for domestic and commercial/ industrial , or would you only be able to sign of domestic work if you was with niceic ect?
Great video and some great advice
A tradesperson was to keep the working man in his place in the old days and it did that.
There needs to be a change from school then to college training .
Example. I phoned Blackburn college and Lancaster college two years ago about Electric car courses. They both replied there are no courses available. They had not even thought of this .
So it starts all over again with no apprenticeships available so self teaching `is the only way forward.
5 years from now colleges will start teaching DC electrics, but then will not recognize a self taught person because of their lack of foresight.
On youtube most EV cars , Electric skateboards, bikes clips, etc. are from self taught persons.There is a whole new world of DC. electrics here now.
I do like eFIXX on youtube. You're ahead of the others.
I now have a Gold Card. I put off applying because I have old qualifications which I thought wouldn’t be recognised. Thought I’d be rejected and waste my money. But it went through OK with no problem. To seal the deal I did need 18th edition which I had done. I also did 2391-52 as CPD and had an opportunity to do it. I am actually quite chuffed with my JIB card because it’s new fangled, seemingly sought after and I’m a tatty old dog.
But how can companies selling these night schools and 18 day courses get away with what they advertise.
This is one example, taken directly from a companies website I've copied and pasted. Which after reading sounds ridiculous. This is from their 18 day "Domestic Electrician course"
'You’ll have the skills, knowledge and qualifications to get a job or set yourself up as a domestic electrical installer. This means you can do everything from new sockets and light fittings up to a complete house re-wire, and be seen as competent and safe to do so. You’ll be equipped to satisfy the new updated building control regulations and have the relevant qualifications in installing, testing and inspecting - so you can take on both notifiable and non-notifiable work. Most people who train on this course eventually set up as self-employed domestic electricians'
Now in 18 days you dont even cover a re-wire. Or even practice removing and or installing an MCB into a board.
How can they get away with that? It even states "seen as competent." Well if you don't complete or even practice something on their course you would not be considered competent surely? They're totally selling it to you to just get your money. Not helpful to anyone. Just seems they are after your hard earned money.
I'd really like to hear what you think on this. And the particular statement above taken from an 18 day course...
Great video as always Gaz. Keep them coming!
Thanks for adding such a detailed comment to the chat the community will benefit from your insight. Thanks Gaz 👍
I think the key thing a lot aren't noticing is these courses do teach you how to do all of that with qualifications, however, they don't teach you what you do when things go wrong or how exactly you get that cable from A to B without making it look ugly. I think you're wondering how you can learn all the different ways to run cables, all the tools, materials etc and their uses etc etc etc in 18 days but they're only teaching the regulations and how to work safely so that when you go out and do your own thing you're doing it correctly but will need to learn a TONNE more to be a decent spark.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I must be the all time sucker for evening classes 2365, 2382(17th Ed). 2394, 2395, ECS white labourers card., clean driving licence and attempted 2396
I’m looking for a job that I can finish qualifying on.
I’d have asked:-“ Well so I have these certificates are they going to be counted as credits towards my apprenticeship should I find one ?’ Wouldn’t that make it a lot shorter ?”
What are the AM2E requirements^.?
I have south african qualifications what do i do to get uk ones . I have 13 year experience in the field
How do I become a electrician……… nvq level 3. Portfolio and the am2
Hi to all, having been through both sides of the coin as electrician and college lecturer & assessor , I have experienced the different routes to be an electrician with over 35 years vocational knowledge. I believe their are many different routes to gain your electrical qualifications , some clear, some easier , again depends on your circumstances . Due to the ever changing employment world and training requirements we do need more than 1 route to upskill the nation. It all changed 2012 due to NVQ requirements for new QS & QM and the onset of CDM regulations ( greater use of ECS cards) to show competencies., in the old days I showed my JIB card 3 times over 10 years ....
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
David Savery is so knowledgeable, Dr Chris Horne too, they didn't study through an apprenticeship ?
100% agree and fantastic people also. Gaz 👍
Sometimes I think with all the hoops you jump through ,and the money (jib rates) it sometimes doesn't seem worth it ,but saying that I really enjoyed my time as an industrial sparky.
Good point Ray. Gaz
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
But them qualification dint mean much aswell iv seen so called qualifie electricians and the poor quality work they produce its shocking really. And uv seen good mates that are better than those so called qualified electricians
Great video Gary and this is all the information I've been looking for as I want to get into the trade. It might be different for me as I'm a qualified electronics engineer and can fault find complex pcbs all day and have transferable skills I believe.
But it seems to be a closed or members only club.
Just to pick up on something that was mentioned as I've always wondered this, if I was to pass for example a night course to level 3, and carry out work in a property (my own for example) and have someone come to verify that the work is upto standard. Then I would be classed as a verified domestic installer, but if I could build up a portfolio on that property through fault finding and various installation methods etc and have them all checked by someone external, could or would I be a qualified electrician?
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Personally i believe the problem is the definition of "qualified electrician" . Its a narrow term in a very wide ranging sector, with different levels of competency, that competence being a combination of structured learning, knowledge, disciplines and experience.
Great message
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Ive just started the course for level 3 and I'm 63 years old. What jobs can I ndertake as a DEI?
Obviously nothing that is notifiable I understand this, But have you any suggestions.
Nice informative vid. regards and stay safe. Bill.
I'm in my 60s now and I am not recognised as a sparky anymore. I started in the 1970s specialising in industrial. Pyro, conduit, SWA etc. Recently, I had to travel 85 miles a day to make dozens of pyro ends off on a fire alarm panel being relocated. None of the o site sparks could do it. Shorts on every end, or low resistance. Black finger marks everywhere and all the cables looking crinkly. The guys on site, very nice guys, all niceic registered, couldn't do the old school works. I did the job in record time, all clean, cables neatly dressed and fully fixed. But, I'm not recognised as a sparky anymore? I cant wait to retire. Lol!
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I'm in Australia, I've done my Pre-Apprentiship Electrical but I don't have anyone taking me on as an apprentice so I wasted my time and I decided to work in the factory instead.😢😢
Wish I’d have watched this way back, not that it matters now like, but it would have been nice to know these things
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
@@efixx are you trying to kindly insult me ? 😂
So can I have advice, currently looking to be adult learner. My route I'd like to get to is domestic installer. What are my options? While working full time?.
18th edition, work with someone decent, level 2 then level 3 testing...
Always ask what requirements are required by the likes of Napit and the NICEIC. Thanks for commenting. Gaz
They would be the last organisations I would ask. Be extremely careful when taking advice from them. They will generally try to sell you training courses that are not transferable to other bodies. Take it from someone who has worked in the industry all his working life and has been privy to all the underhanded things that have gone on since the introduction of Part P.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Route 1: Get an apprenticeship. Not likely but maybe doable by a miracle from God.
Route 2: Go to college, do the Levels 2+3. Get the 18th edition and inspection and testing alongside/immediately after. Then go out to work, maybe start domestic, only do work you feel comfortable with, etc. Or try to get work alongside someone as an 'improver'.
Route 3: Do a short course which has all the exact same theoretical quals as going to college but can be done much faster. Then go out to work, maybe start domestic, only do work you feel comfortable with, etc. Or try to get work alongside someone as an 'improver'.
My preferred route would be the apprenticeship for obvious reasons but the money is shit.
Second would be college since it is more in depth and takes longer (72 months two days a week [so 144 weeks] instead of 17 weeks with T***eSk***s.) and they may be able to hook you up with a firm. The drawback is not being able to work those days or having to do it at night, and then even after that you're not considered qualified by some since you have little real experience.
Third would be the short course route but if i did this i would definitely only look for really basic domestic work or a mate or 'improver' position after to gain experience.
At the end of the day if you really take in the knowledge and do your homework, and ask loads of questions, you will be safe in a domestic setting with those quals because the technical knowledge is the same as you get on an apprenticeship. You just have to know your limits and try to learn whenever you can.
Working along side someone decent is best though.
Having said that, i know time served blokes who spent the first two years of their 3 year apprenticeships sweeping up, getting materials, brewing tea and getting buttys from the shop.
I know a time served joiner who can't hang a door. I know a time served decorator who cannot hang paper or cut in properly.
The time you put in will dictate the rewards you'll reap. And at the end of it if you can work as a spark who cares whether someone else deems you a 'real' electrician or not.
Hi gaz, very interesting video this thanks for sharing it.
Quick question as an adult learner if someone has done the level 2 with one training provider is it possible to move onto the level 3 with a different company/training provider.
I'm 55 buy the time I have done everything I would only have 5 years to practice
Also having a mortgage to start training and pay mortgage is tricky
As a 30 year old, what do I need in order to advertise myself as an electrician to install a new socket in a customers house, legally?
I’ve worked along side an electrician part time for a couple years and can do 1st/2nd fix and have done board changes etc.
Do I need to be qualified to legally do electrics in a customers house?
You need to be a member of a CPS scheme - eg NICEIC or NAPIT and have liability insurance. Otherwise you’ll have to notify LABC for every job depending upon the scope of the work.
So the answer is no, you don't need any qualifications to carry out electrical installation work in a customer's house. Public Liability Insurance isn't a requirement either. However, if something goes wrong, you're going to pay out of your own pocket to put things right.
Hi Gaz speaking from Ireland love the show with some great info 👍 is it the same criteriain the republic of ireland for any who is older to think about training etc....
Thanks Declan 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Is it true to say that in view of the current range of equipment on offer these days that external influences (what an electrician uses to decide what equipment he/she will use), are now obscelete?
I'd like to point out here that by no means am I advocating the use of non British Standard products for use in the electrical field. To my knowledge the crossing of fields causes fires.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
There are some good comments here and enjoying everyone’s input
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I would say this qualified Electrician business needs sorting out you need to do a five year apprenticeship and at least three years day release at college like i did in the old days Gary you probably did the same when you worked for EMEB also what role does the JIB play in this situation am i right in saying once you have got your grade card with Electrician stamped on it you then can call yourself an Electrician done and dusted The rules need to be set out making it nice and clear for everybody. What are your ideas on this subject i would be interested in your feed back. from Mike Scott.
So with a level 2 and 3 2365 I wouldn’t be able to go and works as an electricians mate !?
Watching this suggest that what your saying is if your not 16 and going down an apprentice route, your going to struggle to find work and get the experience to become a ‘qualified electrician’.
Poor bloke has come on here to answer and ask questions but has just had his hopes and dreams flushed down the drain.
Keep you head up !
Back in the 90's the AM2 was for grading apprentice electricians, if you passed the exam you were made up to an electrician. Now the JIB use this as the bench mark. Its all down to technical skills of the individual. Regardless of what qualification route they followed. If a person can bend conduit, manufacture trunking bends, install a radial circuit, ring main two way with an intermediate switch which also contains an emergency lighting test switch. Make a pyro end off or terminate an swa cable. I would give them a job, and its a bonus if they can test. Who cares about a jib card, it doesnt make you a better electrician. Yes you needs to pass the health and safety exam every five years. But thats it. The person who really decides if you can cut the cloth is your boss, and that should be evident at the interview.
On a side note i saw a job advertised, Electrician require must have a gold card or similar, i am not aware of any other card. This is because there is a skills shortage and the jib are stopping others from filling these roles, but really they should be encouraging people to fill the skill gap. I have posted similar comments on forums such has parky whinger, and the hosts never
respond.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Interesting video, I'm I guess in a similar position to Richard, although I knew going in I wasn't gonna become a fully qualified electrician. Rhymes with Grangehill, and offers quick "domestic electrician" training courses, you do receive good training, and relevant qualifications, and being an adult retrainer, switching from a 17 year printing background into ev charging, it seemed like the way to go. Couple more days of the course left to do myself, but the current lockdown has brought it to a halt. I do know they get looked down on by a lot of fully qualified electricians, but when your mid 30's or older, and wanting to join the industry, there isn't necessarily a lot of options to begin with.
Thanks for adding such a detailed comment. Gaz
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Too right mate. People wouldn't go there if there wasn't a lack of opportunities for anyone over the age of 23. All this 'no age discrimination' stuff is all tosh. My cv is 18 years of domestic building experience with an intense interest in electrics, can do almost every job to a decent standard, own tools, insurance, van, willing to work for 16 year old apprentice wages, can buy all ppe and necessary books etc myself, even offered to fund college out of my own pocket. Rejected for every apprenticeship i've ever applied for because i'm 34, even though that's never the reason they give. They'd rather hire a 16 year old who fell into it out of 'well what else should i do' who will stand on their phone all day, will be borrowing tools and will need picking up every morning because they can't drive.
They get more money for training up kids but i would bring miles more value to them.
So now i'm going back to proper college to get Lvl 2 and 3. Last resort woulda been one of these 20 week training providers. They are the same in terms of theoretical knowledge but the experience is something that you'll lack and you cannot buy it.
A good route to go after you get your certs from them is to go as an electrician's mate or 'improver' to get your foot in the door.
Hi, Did u finish your course and if so how are you getting on ? Would love to know
I’m in this exact predicament, it’s was only when I went to try and get an ECS card that I realised I couldn’t. I was working full time at a non electrical job whilst at college so never did a portfolio etc. I’m now looking down the barrel of 2.5/3k to do this now even though been on the tools for a good few years now 😢.
As am I Joanna. Doing my weekend course at lv2 atm, but colleges are closed again so can't take my exams. How are you going about building your portfolio? What do you have to do?
@@carrot5648 nothing at the moment!! I can’t afford to do it. I looked into it and there are lots of people offering experienced ‘NVQ,s’ but just don’t have the funds. Just hoping I can muddle on without it!
@@joannabaker5994 So is it a separate course on top of your lv2 & 3?
The expericened installer route is probably your best option. You could apply for an experienced worker ECS card which would give you 18 months togain the necessary qualifications for the Gold card if you feel that's what you need
Thanks for the feedback very much appreciated. Gaz
This is good to hear especially from a lecturer, we need more honest talks about this.
Thanks for commenting 👍. Gaz
How do you mean the NVQ doesn't exist anymore? Is it not really needed? It is alot of money to fork out if it isnt needed...
& it’s round the £2k mark too
He means it's no longer called an NVQ it's now called a portfolio of work, but essential you still need a portfolio which previously you would have developed in a NVQ, which from what he said is now referred to as just a portfolio of your work demonstrating your competent, possibly any courses still refering to NVQ are out of date and maybe choose somewhere more up to date.
Apprentices have a gateway which is an AM2S skills test. They still gather site evidence like the old NVQ but that elements is no longer called an NVQ. Thanks Gaz
@@efixx and if you are going the college route as an adult learner? You still have to do an NVQ?
@@Brucey367 you can still build a qualification that has an NVQ in it but the apprentice route uses AM2S as the gateway. Joe will follow this video up in the coming weeks.
We need guys like this to retrain my only issue after the 5 week Part P sparky qualification debacle is the industry needs to recognise the difference between a domestic electrician and a industrial commercial electrician.
Said it for years that domestic electricians should get qualified in 2 years then if they want to step up to I&C then they can be taken on via an Improver grade for 1-2 years. I ran I&C jobs and when a mature domestic electrician started they were not best pleased having a 22yo in charge of them . Some went back to domestics but the rest progressed and picked up new skills making them more employable.
It took me 6 years to get approved grade. Plus I am in Scotland so never had to see or go through Part P.
The industry is crying out for these types of guys so best of luck to him in his studies
My wife is a doctor, and she got very little hands on experience at university. Its mostly theory based at university. She was still called a doctor when she graduated. She only really started getting hands on experience when she started working. Also she could not do operations on her own or really work alone for quite some time after graduating. Have you ever watched Grey's Anatomy? They are very inexperienced when they graduate and become doctors but they are still doctors. One of my friends is a pilot flying planes. Everyone calls him a pilot, even the captain. He is actually the co pilot and needs more experience to become a captain. I have completed the 2365 level 2 and 3. Also have 15 years experience. Only thing I have done since I left school. Apparently I am not an electrican.
WOW
Would you be able to apply fora JiB gold card or set up business as an electrician under NICEIC membership criteria?
@@efixx What does the legislation say? The eligibility for becoming a member of a trade body scheme is not legislation.
Ok so I am about to start my level 2 , I had no option but to go for the EAL qualification. It runs for just over 40 weeks (just for the level 2) and was told it's the same qualification as C&G. Why is there so much stigma surrounding EAL, everyone I've spoken to have said those courses churn out Sparky's overnight steer clear .. it runs the same length as a C&G. it's cost me a fair amount of money and I'm worried I won't get on as a mate (where the real education starts) when I get the level 3 after 2 years on the course. I will be trying to get in with a local spark for weekend work (work for free) to expand my knowledge base once I get level 2 under my belt.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
@@efixx absolute legends , thank you so much. Love the content you produce .
And becoming a fully qualified electrician doesn’t make you a good electrician...that comes from within....
Totally agree 👍
Well said
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
I work in the washrooms/hygiene industry installing hand dryers, air sterilizers etc, some of the work I have seen from "qualified" electricians (including our own) quite frankly shocks (excuse the pun) me.
The standards from what I've seen in the commercial sector are very low, very much a smash it on the wall and bog off to the next job attitude. Nothings level, no cord ends on flex, best practice or don't both getting your tools out the van.
If it’s any consolation, the aviation industry is going the same way. I’m a commercial pilot for a major Uk airline and I went the traditional route of training progressing through aircraft types to reach what I’m on now. There is now a fast-tracked route called Multicrew pilots license (MPL-aka “monkey pilot license”). These people are trained day one on big jets having never flown solo in their lives. So yes they can call themselves a pilot, but it doesn’t mean they have the same experience or even the same skill as someone who did the long route in.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
So basically Experience plus qualifications = qualified ??
Well that cleared things up Gaz!
It’s the start of a bigger discussion. Gaz 👍
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
BUT - isn't it now the case that you could take the route of domestic installer, work in the industry for three years, and, as long as in that time, you study up to at least 2365 L2, you can then apply for entry via the EWR, and gain fully qualified status that way? Yes, the Skills Scan might pick up other points, and yes, it would be better to have the L3 as well, but this provides an opportunity for those of us who are a certain age, have other commitments, and couldn't get an apprenticeship any more than the winning lottery ticket. Nobody is saying that on the job experience isn't important, but also, there has to be some way into the industry beyond the apprenticeship route, which simply isn't possible for various reasons past a certain age...
What is EWR sorry?
@@cblairrrr2048 Experienced Worker Route
Efixx, I am unaware of any legal requirement for someone working as an electrician in the UK to hold any qualifications. As far as I know, anyone meeting the dictionary definition can call him or herself an electrician, and having any electrical qualification would make that person a 'qualified electrician'. It's not realistic IMO to compare a spark to a doctor, surgeon, or pilot, as to legally work in those professions does require a license. Perhaps you know different, i would be grateful for your input.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Its like working for a campany for years gaining experience then they go bust
How can u prove that experience after .If u feel competent then u are papers go with u bit that changes.Math is math dosnt change in electrics because u got new qual only regs change usually fo to either money or new designs and materials available. 4:01
I normally enjoy these videos, but this one is wrong. Your pilot example is as diffren as apples and oranges.
All you need is to complete level 2 & 3 qualification in electrical installation. You also need regs and test and inspect cert. Of course you need experience but if you have the above you are a qualified electrician. This is an old boys network trying to exclude any one who has not taken the apprenticeship route. A route that often involves young people being used as cheap labour for year one. The fact that they attend college 1 day a week is no diffren to the qualifications you will get from part time or night school in fact many of the attendees of theses courses are on an apprenticeship. The real diffrence is the experience they get during the apprenticeship, this can vary vastly depending on who your apprenticeship I. In a nut shell the diffrence is experience and how you gain it. One you have the relevant qualifications and experience you are a qualified electrician. You might not get on with some of the big commercial firms, but that's not because your not recognised that the old boys network at hand
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Having seen a similar video, it turns out I was miss sold a course by a training provider. For the sake of my integrity after finding out I could not call myself an electrician, I had to close a business I was trying to build up, I’ve lost thousands of pounds during the whole process. I’m currently working in a job completely unrelated to anything electrical to pay the bills. Due to this global pandemic I’m struggling to find someone who might take me on to help me gain some more experience. Quite frankly the industry has ruined my life.
The industry hasn't ruined your life I'm afraid. If the training provider really did mis-sell you training, then the blame is squarely on their shoulders.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
How about this for an analogy.... Are you a magician or an entertainer? As an entertainer you could be a skilled magician or vice versa. I would rather a Domestic Installer who takes pride in their work than a 'fully qualified electrician' who doesn't give a damn. Have you seen the state of some of the wiring on these new builds being knocked up in a week? In my mind, regular assessment on the work that is carried out by the individual, whatever that may be, is strict, frequent and essential to ensure safe working practices are being adhered to. My name is Pete and I am a Domestic Installer........... :)
Great comment Peter and I have taught 100’s of learners to be domestic installers. Thanks for taking the time to add such a detailed comment. Gaz
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
hi Pete,you are an electrician ,point blank , you don't see this type of snobbery of who & who is not an electrician in the rest of europe ,only the uk
When I started it was c&g 236 part 1 Electrician C&g 236 part 2 Approved Electrician and c&g part C Technician the ONC the. HNC Electrical Engineer
If you complete (i.e graduate from) an electrical and electronic ENGINEERING degree however (as I and many friends & colleagues did - on a 4 year thin sandwich course), at the end you ARE an engineer! WITH 18 months or more of real world engineering experience!
When completing a suitable HND course, similarly at the end of the diploma course you would be a qualified engineer.
Why is the HNC not suitable for a technician level qualification such as electrician? Seems to be a complete mismatch somewhere.
im doing the jib exprpince worker atm doing the portfole now
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
@@efixx all ready am x
Hi Gary nice video and very helpful.
I class myself as an Electrician, i've read hundreds of books, been an approved contractor with the NICEIC FOR 8 YEARS and 3 with Napit. Regarding qualifications all I have is 17th/18th edition, 2391,2392 and part p. On site fully competent in re-wires and EICRS and fault finding. If i'm not an electrician what am I?
Great work Darren 👍
you aren’t an electrician, don’t matter how many people you cut open or how good you are at it don’t make you a doctor unless you have the qualifications to say so
@@WCamden maybe not on paper but in knowledge/on site experience and my turnover generated from work , I wipe the floor with a lot of people
@@darrenappel8979 If you have approved status with your cps, you are an Electrician.
Ok then, here's my question - you keep mentioning a 'domestic setting'.
What is a domestic setting ?
You don't have to do an apprenticeship to be a fully qualified electrician, you need to do level 2, and level 3 C+G or EAL at college (night or day it makes no difference you still.do the same work and take the same exams) have the 18th edition do an am2 (am2e/s which ever one it is now) 2391-52 and the NVQ/portfolio once you've done all of those you are recognised as an electrician the caveat with the portfolio is that in order to do it you need to be employed and working for an already qualified electrician all this still takes at least 3 years to complete, that's how I did it and I'm recognised as a fully qualified electrician by the JIB ECS and any certification scheme I choose to go with.
I've heard this alot myself "you're not fully qualified because you didn't do an apprenticeship" yet I've done the same exams, had the same formal training, done the same assessments, have the same certificates from the same institutions and have more experience if anything because I didn't miss days work for college as I did it after work (If you assume im fresh of the press as it were) the only difference is I wasn't an apprentice so how can I or anyone who chose/chooses the same avenue as myself not be fully qualified?
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
Nice video Gaz , please may you explain to me and will be helpfull to others as well. How was possible that UK sparky works like sparky in EU (eu regs, eu norms, ....) without any EU training (reg, school, etc...) and EU sparkies can NOT works in UK (before brexit) without AM2 on comecial sites (domestic is totaly diferent even for cowboys 😤). I do not mean Sparky job like be mate, ...
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
In some cases practical experienced worker leads a qualified man.
Experience can not be studied in a school or college.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html
It's easier to become a doctor.
Apprenticeships don’t bang out quality sparks, far from it, in my experience it’s quite the opposite.
im so confused, so to be an electrician you have to do courses 1 to 3 and after that an apprenticeship? im trying to get in to college for adult part time because i cant get an apprenticeship its just impossible and now im hearing you do the adult part time then after that you do an apprenticeship aswel?
Well after the level 3, you can qualified to become an electrician mate or improver. Meaning, you can do the nvq to fill up your portfolio and then completing the am2 afterwards. I’m nearly finishing my level 3 myself this year and will try to get a job as a labourer first to get the onsite experience and then save up the money to complete the 18th edition and ipaf or plasma qals. This should ideally make me more attractive to potential employers. But will see in a few months for me whether it pays off
Are you seriously comparing learning how to join a few wires up with being a doctor or solicitor? 😂 a few days training would be plenty. Some primary school maths and how to use a screwdriver and your sorted 👌
Not impressed with.
The taking down to someone tring to improve his lot in life.
That's not what happened there at all. Education is what happened there.
Do you want to RETRAIN as an ELECTRICIAN? - REAL LIFE STORY - NICEIC Domestic installer th-cam.com/video/5GubZ50zET8/w-d-xo.html