Leo JMB: this 1911 pistol is perfect. Batwoman : it will be when its made for a woman. JMB : okay, heres one i call the Hi-power, but is chambered in 9mm. Batwoman : perfection.
And adds a mag safety that doesn’t bugger up your trigger feel. I’m not saying I like mag safety devices but if you have to have one this is an excellent design.
The rotation of the barrel with a suppressor attachment would definitely affect function. You’d have to attach it to the barrel bushing or the frame but that’s be easy to do with that 4 lug lockup.
Yeah, it's definitely a neat feature set but I really wish he did more in the design to take advantage of a rotating barrel (rather than a tilting one). For example, there's a huge potential with a rotating barrel design to slim up the frame, thus making the overall gun smaller... But the only thing that he changed dimensionally was to bulk UP the slide = bigger gun And John-Paul, I don't think this was ever intended for suppressors anyhow since you would need to acquire a extended/threaded version of one of these custom rotating barrels. I agree though that even if you did, using a suppressor would indeed be a nightmare on this thing.
@@MrNick01 No, not really. Bond Arms introduced a prototype suppressed Bullpup. It simply had an attachment to the threaded barrel that allowed the suppressor to turn on the axis of the barrel. Much simpler than a Neilson device.
Considering this was made in Mexico City in the 1930s and 1940s, this is of remarkable high quality and in many ways it’s a better version of the M1911, I honestly wish this caught on.
@@billypilgrim1 I like how you, a Brit, is offended on behalf of Mexicans over a light hearted joke. Makes sense given how you probably need a license to make jokes in once great empire these days. Its a light hearted joke, grow the fuck up.
@@billypilgrim1 You're offended over a joke not being funny? Seriously? That's even worse. You must be constantly offended in the presence of children making jokes then, their jokes usually fall flat after all. ''And don't tag us to your dumb pc humour is dead argument,'' How can I not when an edgy Scotsman making childish Nazi-pug jokes went to court. ''we actually don't have to ask permission to make a joke'' I like how you actually had to answer that seriously because of how warped your society's take on joking have become. Thanks for proving my point :)
@@billypilgrim1 Buddy, friend, pal, amigo. There's nothing really racist about the comment. Browning is referring to the last name of another gun manufacturer named Browning. And honestly, it isn't offensive at all. Being Mexican myself, I find this joke pretty funny and I'm sure other Mexicans would agree. You just don't gotta get offended on our behalf, Kay?
I would argue they did catch on, Obregon just didn't get the credit. The captive recoil spring and the simplified mainspring (seen here: i.imgur.com/DRMISQZ.jpg) both showed up eventually and are standard features today. Obregon was ahead of the curve when it came to spring retention.
@@herrero4270 Also the prohibition was only for civilians and this is a military/police gun. Rotation barrels are more effort to produce and they are more sensitive to dirt and not enough lube.
Nice to see a weapon from my country featured here. Here's hoping for future videos featuring more Mexican made weaponry, like the Mondragón rifle and the FX-05 Xiuhcóatl. Greetings from Mexico!
Mexico had a couple of talented gun designers, other than Mondragon the other one that comes to mind is Mendoza and his light machine guns, it would be intresting to see a video on those guns.
Its a little strange that the US army( or modern commercial 1911 manufacturers )didn't adopt that safety/slide release lever from a manufacturer aspect it's a stroke of brilliance,and is one less controll to operate
There is one good reason I can see why this safety/slide lever wasn't a good idea, and that's because there's no detent for the lever, no positive stop. The lever is long and thin, and starts to flop around as it wears, and you can very easily accidentally put the gun on safe when you don't mean to (I've had 2 of these pistols, they both shared this behavior). The 1911's slide stop and safety have their own detents, making them very crisp and positive. There's no mistakenly flipping the safety on with that pistol. Had the Obregon gotten more military attention, they probably would've improved it though.
It will be unreliable at locking the gun open (if it works at all) with an empty magazine and a thumb on safety grip. It greatly simplifies manufacturing but doesn’t make for a better firearm.
It's not strange at all. The 1911 was produced in the hundreds of thousands by the time there were a scarce 8000 of these in Mexico in the 1930s. It's like saying the M16/M4 could use an ambidextrous bolt hold open/release - kind of good idea but not remotely worth the money or confusion.
A real shame this innovative gun didn't gain popularity, because the evolution of today's 1911 would be dramatically different. Truly a Forgotten Weapon.
Even if it was vastly more popular than it was, it's very unlikely it'd have had a great influence on history let alone the 1911. There are a number of design details that stand out as clearly deficient but are most easily ignored on account of only looking at something sitting on a workbench. Fifty plus times someone's come out with a piston AR and claimed it's the greatest thing ever...
it wouldn't make sense by now anyway, with modern grip techniques with 1911 you have your thumb on a safety lever. Also I believe that without any detents there may be a high possibility to engage\disengage safety in the wrong moment. So I think in the long run combined slide stop\safety would make a better gun to manufacture but not necessarily a better gun to use.
@@s6d6h6m detent would be an easy add, 50 cent part and one more hole drilled in the side of the frame. hell, you could likely make it integral to the lever if you were looking to incorporate this system in manufacturing. might need to beef up the lever, but still very doable.
I could see it being a problem, one in not being very reliable in terms of the last round slide hold open either as it would take a lot more leverage into having to push that piece up, and would also get in the way shooting causing false lock opens due to griping it. Looks/sounds good in theory but probably a good reason why it didn't take off.
"Hay talento, solo falta apoyarlo" "There is talent, we just have to support it" A lot of Mexican invetions are great, but most of the time no one can help it 'cus of no money or something else.
USA put puppet politicians in power in Mexico to not support Mexican talent due to fears of being beaten n out performed, Plan Merida is another restriction that lasted 100yrs that AMLO ended, as well as not to make vehicles, airplanes, or too many electronic technologies.. A Mexican invented color tv, not many ppl know that..
@@P71ScrewHeadPeter Carl Goldmark invented color tv and he wasn't Mexican. There was a Mexican and other guys from other countries who were trying to invent a successful color tv.
It's due to American business interests and U.S. Government controls and influence over the Mexican economy. Something that's been going on for approximately 150 years.
Porfirio Diaz did. Then we had revolution, and then the 10th article of the mexican constitution, which prohibits almost everyone of the popular cartridges. That killed the mexican weapon industry, and now we have only airsoft gun producers
The magazine safety seems realy easy to bypass if you should need to fire without a magazine though. Just hold the magazine release button in as you pull the trigger.
@@BigSwede7403 When I was in the Army that magazine safety would have saved one man's life that I know of. Someone not familiar with the Colt racked the slide, saw the chamber was empty, then removed the magazine. He pointed the pistol at someone in the orderly room and pulled the trigger...and killed them.
@@josuelservin2409 Exactly. Here in germany we can't have many weapons of a class, because of restrictions. When I'll get my license, I will probably go for a classic 1911. Nostalgia 100%.
@@EtherFox rotating barrels make recoil management infinitely easier to handle. 40 SW has more felt recoil than 45 ACP. But out of my Beretta PX4 Storm it is smoother than my glock 19. Now my buddies glock 22 doesn't recoil "hard" but it's a distinguishable displeasure.
I know it has nothing to do with the weapon itself, it's features or functionality.... but that's a pretty cool patent number right there. A symmetrical 35053. It just caught my eye the second it was on frame... I know it's stupid, but yeah, that's quite cool :P.
I read about these in a magazine a few years ago. The rotating barrel locking seems like a good mechanism to me, and this one was the first pistol I had ever heard of that used it. Now whenever I hear that a pistol uses a rotating barrel, I think, "oh, like an Obregon".
Dave, it is a modification of a great design ( to be clear, I am referring to Browning's design) ... but not an improvement. apart from terribly shoddy manufacturing (anyone who ships out a gun with so many tool marks is shoddy and should stick to making shovels ... to say the least) and the reason why these mods did not catch the attention of excellent manufacturers who produce 1911 clones is that they are mods, but by far not improvements....
As it goes, a design needs to be so overwhelmingly better than the current design to justify the cost of replacing it. And though the Obregon has some clever improvements, it's only incrementally better than the 1911 and there's no getting around the already established reputation of the 1911. In short, it wasn't better _enough._
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine , the fact that a country that was fighting (and thankfully losing it) a war shipped out poorly finished guns is not a good excuse.....
I read a while back that (some) of the WW1 German pilots carried ‘Mondragon’ rifles on board their planes, but I do not recall a specific Mexican machine gun?? Apparently German’s prior to WW1 liked the Mondragon rifle, but didn’t have enough to supply the Kaiser’s army when war broke out, so the few rifles they had went to the German Air Force..
@kartoffel Salat México built weapons for Germany and France arround that time in exchange of weapons, the Saint-chammond-mondragón howitzer was being built for the French, and the Mondragón 1908 for the Germans. In exchange, we got Hotchkiss 1914 and Mausers 98. And the first dogfight ever happened in México, it was fought with handguns, he probably mixed up those 2 bits of information
This thing is actually ingenious. I'm very impressed by the engineers who worked on this. The magazine safety alone is a brilliant idea, let alone all of the other improvements made. It basically guarantees there will never be a misfire from someone forgetting that there is a round in the chamber when taking the magazine out. If you ask me, this should be a safety feature present in every single modern production pistol sold to the civilian market because it's that good of an idea. Mistakes happen and I feel like this could prevent a lot of unfortunate accidents. They're all simple things that I never would have thought about needing to be changed, but improving the little things makes the entire piece better.
Thank you. Even though I consider myself a big 1911 fan, and would have to say, it is my favorite handgun, I was totally unaware of this pistol. Thank you again. You didn't mention anything about it's reliability. Have you ever shot it, or heard anything regarding it's reliability?
Hi Mark! I doubt he has had a chance to fire any; an easily available to rent and close replica to the feeling to this would be a Beretta PX4 storm (as far as recoil is concerned); one of those in .40 with some stout stuff could give you the same feeling. As far as reliability goes, it was adopted by a major military power with the resources to put WAY more testing on any platform any of us guntubers ever could, so if you were interested in obtaining one (or any older MILSURP gun), I'd have a qualified gunsmith check the bore, chamber, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the headspace; depending on the condition of course, I would recommend a new set of springs; at least a main spring and recoil spring if you can, if you're like me and collect MILSURP's to actually be shooters. Good luck!
Awesome firearm and now its something to be on the look out for as a historical Gun. I like how Mexican 1911 or the "Escuarda" are preferred in the 9mm Super Round or the .38 Super Round.
Just one more example of how a mass produced item can be perfected on a small scale. I might be wrong, but it seems to me, that this gun is better made in some ways, than standard 1911. Thank you, Ian.
I know this video is old, but I want to ask one thing about this pistol. Why? Why did he make it a rotory barrel design when a straight 1911 clone would have been easier. Was he just trying to be different and unique? Was he trying to solve some perceived weakness in the original design? I know this is a difficult question to answer because it requires one to be able to read the mind of the designer, but I was hoping he explained his motivation either in company literature or in interviews.
When I was sick at home I litturally ate the gun books my father owend. A lot of mysteries about al that different functions like open bolt, gas operated, short recoil, long recoil, forward recoil etc.! This channel withe Ian is just great. Solving all my questions!
Damn it, I was actually hoping you _wouldn't_ do a video on this one..... ;) On the topic of the mag safety, one thing I've learned from owning examples of these is that if you try to file on the inside surfaces in an attempt to disable the mag safety, all you'll do is brick the gun as the mag safety will no longer be able to be activated by a mag. A previous owner tried this, and then tried to fix it which grossly and negatively affected the trigger pull.
One of my first rifles had been "adjusted" by the owner for a lighter trigger pull..... which also meant that if you engaged the safety then pulled the trigger, it was very slightly heavier than normal, then the safety would disengage and the rifle would fire. I know it's fun to tinker with things guys but please be honest about your skills and don't mess with functioning parts unless you know what you're doing!
If you brick this gun by filing the mag catch, it's 100% because you didn't understand how the safety worked and had no business modifying the components.
@@jameshealy4594 Yeah I saw something similar on an 8mm mauser. Had a bolt handle welded to the bolt by someone using an easy bake welder. 1 out of 7 or 8 times when you engaged the safety with a round in the chamber it would go off... I'm not a gun control nazi or anything but if a gun gets that bad then it really should get lost in a boating accident
Be interesting to feel how the rotational impulse affects recoil; you don't notice it in a rifle because the bolt face is such a small amount of the overall mass, but a pistol barrel makes up a larger proportion of the whole.
I’ve been interested in this design since your first video. This gets rid of the swing link which can be a weakness of Mr. Browning’s design. It’s part of the reason I purchased a Beretta APX. Thank you for posting this video.
Don't forget about the Slovakian Grand Power pistols, still very much in production. Interesting guns with a slightly unique take on a rotating barrel locking system in the use of a roller bearing to act as the cam lug. Also the safety only models have a remarkably excellent DA trigger pull, which unfortunately doesn't carry over quite as well to the decocker/safety models.
Ian, this pistol is the basis of the COLT OFFENSIVE HANDGUN, you did a video of in 2014! A Mexican version of the 1911, with a rotating barrel, and a little block with the cam track in the reciever. DEAD RINGER!
As a Mexican, am proud our domestic guns were showed in your channel, I hope you can do a video on the FX-05 Xiuhcóatl rifle. or even on the Mosquetón M1954 rifle or the Mendoza smg or mgs. Ñ
Hello and thanks for this video that I came across tonight. I do not remember of hearing about this model of the 1911. As I could not even imagine that such thing existed. 1000 Thanks for the sharing. ❤
I have a Stoeger (Beretta) Cougar 8000. Fun gun and the ejection pattern is wild. My only gripe is that the reassembly process is touchy because the recoil spring isn't captured by the cam block. Beretta fixed that in the PX4, but they made the grip skinny slick polymer.
I have one. It's the Grand Power Q100 which is the striker fired version. It's a great pistol in every way but one: the trigger sucks. The K100 is the hammer fired version, which I hear has a much better trigger. The Q100's trigger is extremely mushy feeling, like the 180º opposite of a nice crisp trigger. However it's very light and predictable. Mechanically it's similar to a Glock trigger, but without the Glock's crispness. I have no idea why. I've fired them back-to back and I've gotta be honest my Glock does _not_ produce better groups. Perhaps they've gone through the mushiness singularity and come out the other side? It's very nice to shoot. The rotating barrel is highly accurate and absorbs some of the recoil.
@@tarmaque I have both the regular K100 and a Q1 with factory flat trigger (2019 edition) - the flat trigger is awesome and definitely not a glockishly mushy...the reset is not so short like the K100, but yet, its still one of the shortest.
With everyone making a 10911/1911A1 copy these days - how about someone making a copy of this????????? I would buy one. I would even buy a Turkish copy - which I usually detest!!!!
Obregon getting rid of the pesky plunger tube was more than enough to convince me it was better than the 1911. And then I watched on and then felt sad they don't make these anymore.
Nice shoutout to the Steyr "Hahn" 1912. That gun just looks so cool to me. If only it had detachable magazines, I'd say it would still be viable today.
I continue to be baffled as to why people seem to think magazine safeties are a good idea, but that's a pretty slick way to implement one. Lots of other very clever engineering here too.
The.45 was known as the most dangerous weapon issued, too many guys accidentally shot by one of their own, usually with an "empty" gun. Mag removed but forgot the round in the chamber.
I had one of the Mauser rotating barrel pistols in 40 automatic. It was a pleasure to shoot, but not reliable with parts breakage. After being sent for repair twice, I sold it.
Mexico was on the road to be a military power, but that is not convenient for America. US financed the Mexican revolution to take out porfirio Diaz and set presidents under American orders, that strategy is called cheap war. Innovations stopped becouse that. Amazing video
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine a rotating barrel will provide better accuracy than a tilting barrel. because a tilting barrel can still lock with some tilt. it may not return to the same point every shot. depending on ammo and return spring age. slight differences in the rotation of a rotating barrel will not effect accuracy nearly as much. that's the paper answer for not using a tilting barrel system.
There were some Obregón pistols as Armas de cargo at the Base Aerea de Santa Lucia (St. Lucy Airbase) of the Fuerza Aerea Mexicana (Mexican Air Force) back in the 80s. Me and my fellow scale modelers visited the Airbase almost every Saturday back then.
J M Browning: "I have designed the greatest pistol of all time."
Senor Obregon: "Hold my cerveza..."
"Hold my tequila"*
In reality: hold both of them
Hold my Modelo 😂
Hold my churro de mota
A Corona beer, certainly ...
USA: "This 1911 is perfection"
Mexico:"It will be, when its barrel rotates"
Leo JMB: this 1911 pistol is perfect. Batwoman : it will be when its made for a woman. JMB : okay, heres one i call the Hi-power, but is chambered in 9mm.
Batwoman : perfection.
@@KKovacsUSN **triggered belgian noises**
😂😂😂🙌🏼
@@KKovacsUSN Ironic as in some comics, Batwoman will use a gun as opposed to Bruce
🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴🥴
Wow, there’s actually some neat features there.
And adds a mag safety that doesn’t bugger up your trigger feel. I’m not saying I like mag safety devices but if you have to have one this is an excellent design.
The rotation of the barrel with a suppressor attachment would definitely affect function. You’d have to attach it to the barrel bushing or the frame but that’s be easy to do with that 4 lug lockup.
Yeah, it's definitely a neat feature set but I really wish he did more in the design to take advantage of a rotating barrel (rather than a tilting one). For example, there's a huge potential with a rotating barrel design to slim up the frame, thus making the overall gun smaller... But the only thing that he changed dimensionally was to bulk UP the slide = bigger gun
And John-Paul, I don't think this was ever intended for suppressors anyhow since you would need to acquire a extended/threaded version of one of these custom rotating barrels. I agree though that even if you did, using a suppressor would indeed be a nightmare on this thing.
I was pleasantly surprised. I was half expecting a lower quality version of the VC copy.
@@MrNick01 No, not really. Bond Arms introduced a prototype suppressed Bullpup. It simply had an attachment to the threaded barrel that allowed the suppressor to turn on the axis of the barrel. Much simpler than a Neilson device.
Mexican weapons manufacturing is pretty good, shame the government decided to prohibit calibers higher than .380 for everyone, it killed Innovation.
Mexico needs their own version of the NRA
@@m.j.vazquez4720 Mexico have enough problems with Cartels , I don't think Mexico needs domestic terrorist organization NRA as additional problem .
@@user-xj3mo2lx9z I think he means that the NRA let's any crazy Fuck to own an assault rifle, the USA really needs to put an end to that, but yeah.
@@xxvaltielxx1789 Except I'm pretty sure the NRA doesn't "let people" own anything.
@@faillord7020 your name suits you perfectly
Considering this was made in Mexico City in the 1930s and 1940s, this is of remarkable high quality and in many ways it’s a better version of the M1911, I honestly wish this caught on.
Yeah. It seems an high quality firearm, with some very clever solution implemented.
think of the possibilities if mexico didnt have such tight gun laws
@@m.j.vazquez4720 or such a fucked government
Some of the new features were pretty cool, but the spinning barrel mechanism itself... What exactly does it add to the M1911?
Agreed, I'd hella buy one of these.
Juan Browning Strikes Again! 😂
@@billypilgrim1 I like how you, a Brit, is offended on behalf of Mexicans over a light hearted joke.
Makes sense given how you probably need a license to make jokes in once great empire these days. Its a light hearted joke, grow the fuck up.
@@billypilgrim1 You're offended over a joke not being funny? Seriously? That's even worse.
You must be constantly offended in the presence of children making jokes then, their jokes usually fall flat after all.
''And don't tag us to your dumb pc humour is dead argument,''
How can I not when an edgy Scotsman making childish Nazi-pug jokes went to court.
''we actually don't have to ask permission to make a joke''
I like how you actually had to answer that seriously because of how warped your society's take on joking have become.
Thanks for proving my point :)
@@billypilgrim1 you dont get to determine what is funny or not.
now go sip your tea with your fucked up teeth
The best comments of a comment
@@billypilgrim1 Buddy, friend, pal, amigo. There's nothing really racist about the comment. Browning is referring to the last name of another gun manufacturer named Browning. And honestly, it isn't offensive at all. Being Mexican myself, I find this joke pretty funny and I'm sure other Mexicans would agree. You just don't gotta get offended on our behalf, Kay?
Some pretty cool features. Shame that they didn't catch on.
It was mostly the government prohibition of calibers higher than .380 for civilians what killed it.
I would argue they did catch on, Obregon just didn't get the credit. The captive recoil spring and the simplified mainspring (seen here: i.imgur.com/DRMISQZ.jpg) both showed up eventually and are standard features today. Obregon was ahead of the curve when it came to spring retention.
For sure that safety/slide catch lever seems better
@@theincrediblehunk2668 Wrong. That prohibition was made after1971.
@@herrero4270 Also the prohibition was only for civilians and this is a military/police gun. Rotation barrels are more effort to produce and they are more sensitive to dirt and not enough lube.
Nice to see a weapon from my country featured here.
Here's hoping for future videos featuring more Mexican made weaponry, like the Mondragón rifle and the FX-05 Xiuhcóatl.
Greetings from Mexico!
He did a video on the Mondragon five years ago: th-cam.com/video/DU6vWFXhwk4/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/DU6vWFXhwk4/w-d-xo.html
Mondragon was actually already covered in the older episodes IIRC.
Mexico had a couple of talented gun designers, other than Mondragon the other one that comes to mind is Mendoza and his light machine guns, it would be intresting to see a video on those guns.
Can't wait to hear Ian attempt to pronounce Xiuhcóatl :D
Its a little strange that the US army( or modern commercial 1911 manufacturers )didn't adopt that safety/slide release lever from a manufacturer aspect it's a stroke of brilliance,and is one less controll to operate
maybe they dont want to pay "extra" money since its already been patented?
@@prd6617 they made less than a 1000,I think they could have obtained the patent on very favorable terms
There is one good reason I can see why this safety/slide lever wasn't a good idea, and that's because there's no detent for the lever, no positive stop. The lever is long and thin, and starts to flop around as it wears, and you can very easily accidentally put the gun on safe when you don't mean to (I've had 2 of these pistols, they both shared this behavior). The 1911's slide stop and safety have their own detents, making them very crisp and positive. There's no mistakenly flipping the safety on with that pistol. Had the Obregon gotten more military attention, they probably would've improved it though.
It will be unreliable at locking the gun open (if it works at all) with an empty magazine and a thumb on safety grip. It greatly simplifies manufacturing but doesn’t make for a better firearm.
It's not strange at all. The 1911 was produced in the hundreds of thousands by the time there were a scarce 8000 of these in Mexico in the 1930s. It's like saying the M16/M4 could use an ambidextrous bolt hold open/release - kind of good idea but not remotely worth the money or confusion.
A real shame this innovative gun didn't gain popularity, because the evolution of today's 1911 would be dramatically different. Truly a Forgotten Weapon.
mexican gun laws really damper the potential hidden gun genius they might have depriving the world of some really cool fire arms
Even if it was vastly more popular than it was, it's very unlikely it'd have had a great influence on history let alone the 1911. There are a number of design details that stand out as clearly deficient but are most easily ignored on account of only looking at something sitting on a workbench.
Fifty plus times someone's come out with a piston AR and claimed it's the greatest thing ever...
I’ve noticed that Mexico has actually produced some really awesome weapons.
Mexico has always had the potential to be a very strong nation, it's just what happens when shitty governments got in control for so long.
mexican gun laws damper their peoples potential in the fire arms market
FairlyUnknown yea I’ve noticed I started noticing there firearms after the Mondragon rifle, it sold for nearly $60,000
Besides those weapons are probably used by the cartel anyway
look for the FX-05 xiuhcoatl
slide stop safety combo
I’m very surprised that this wasn’t snapped up by colt and Implemented
oh they wanted it so bad they tried to do it three times already.
it wouldn't make sense by now anyway, with modern grip techniques with 1911 you have your thumb on a safety lever. Also I believe that without any detents there may be a high possibility to engage\disengage safety in the wrong moment. So I think in the long run combined slide stop\safety would make a better gun to manufacture
but not necessarily a better gun to use.
@@s6d6h6m detent would be an easy add, 50 cent part and one more hole drilled in the side of the frame. hell, you could likely make it integral to the lever if you were looking to incorporate this system in manufacturing. might need to beef up the lever, but still very doable.
I could see it being a problem, one in not being very reliable in terms of the last round slide hold open either as it would take a lot more leverage into having to push that piece up, and would also get in the way shooting causing false lock opens due to griping it. Looks/sounds good in theory but probably a good reason why it didn't take off.
"Hay talento, solo falta apoyarlo"
"There is talent, we just have to support it"
A lot of Mexican invetions are great, but most of the time no one can help it 'cus of no money or something else.
USA put puppet politicians in power in Mexico to not support Mexican talent due to fears of being beaten n out performed, Plan Merida is another restriction that lasted 100yrs that AMLO ended, as well as not to make vehicles, airplanes, or too many electronic technologies.. A Mexican invented color tv, not many ppl know that..
Like the color TV
@@P71ScrewHead whats that Plan Mérida about?
@@P71ScrewHeadPeter Carl Goldmark invented color tv and he wasn't Mexican. There was a Mexican and other guys from other countries who were trying to invent a successful color tv.
Crackshot 488 did you look it up in google ?
It’s sad that Mexico never help the inventors behind this
It's due to American business interests and U.S. Government controls and influence over the Mexican economy. Something that's been going on for approximately 150 years.
Thanks to bucarelli treaty!!
Need to do more research: th-cam.com/video/ouUxDxi8eMs/w-d-xo.html
Porfirio Diaz did. Then we had revolution, and then the 10th article of the mexican constitution, which prohibits almost everyone of the popular cartridges. That killed the mexican weapon industry, and now we have only airsoft gun producers
What every 1911 has needed since day 1: a spinny barrel, more sheet metal parts, and a magazine safety.
It's finally perfect.
A 1911 always needs more things that can rattle
@@spretcher a pine-tree air freshener hanging from the trigger guard.
The magazine safety seems realy easy to bypass if you should need to fire without a magazine though. Just hold the magazine release button in as you pull the trigger.
try paying attention
Obregon improved on Browning
-- standing on a giants shldrs beats
paying blind obeisance
@@BigSwede7403 When I was in the Army that magazine safety would have saved one man's life that I know of. Someone not familiar with the Colt racked the slide, saw the chamber was empty, then removed the magazine. He pointed the pistol at someone in the orderly room and pulled the trigger...and killed them.
Ive never owned a gun, but i love watching these vids.
Neronis Senwulf maybe time to change that??
Same, I just find guns and their functions very interesting.
Me too.. I wish I could have one, but at least I'll try to make guns once I'm independent.
No better time to start than now. Start owning a gun.
Me too they're beautiful like clocks and their internal workings.
Amazing design. Improving on M. Browning's already good design!
Saddly there's not a huge civilian market for firearms in Mexico.
You're kidding, right? How about those drug cartels?
yeah mexican gun laws put a major damper on that mexico needs their own version of the NRA
@@lucianene7741The fuck do you mean? How does that relate to us, the civilians and law abiding citizens?
@@QUIROPTEROHOLLOW remember, there are not real civilians in Mexico, we are all narcos according to some.
@@RIPM201 Well I can't agree with the "oportunistic criminal" thing but yeah we can be rather volatile at times.
Seeing how every company is making 1911's, you'd think that someone would copy this.
It is simpler and smarter... just seems superior in about every way.
Modern 1911 are sold on nostalgia, the new buyers are not looking for something better and change would be heresy for many.
@@Mis73rRand0m What's smarter about it, exactly? It's simpler, yes, but things like magazine safeties are laughably stupid, truth be told.
@@josuelservin2409 Exactly. Here in germany we can't have many weapons of a class, because of restrictions. When I'll get my license, I will probably go for a classic 1911. Nostalgia 100%.
@@EtherFox rotating barrels make recoil management infinitely easier to handle. 40 SW has more felt recoil than 45 ACP. But out of my Beretta PX4 Storm it is smoother than my glock 19. Now my buddies glock 22 doesn't recoil "hard" but it's a distinguishable displeasure.
11.43mm - best mm. The designer seems to have been a genius. This pistol is a really cool offshoot from the 1911.
I know it has nothing to do with the weapon itself, it's features or functionality....
but that's a pretty cool patent number right there. A symmetrical 35053. It just caught my eye the second it was on frame... I know it's stupid, but yeah, that's quite cool :P.
Schizophrenia?
I always find that tube spring part on a 1911 akward aesthetically.
The Mexican version has nice improvements, I'm impressed.
Damn that design is freaking genius. It's a damn shame these didn't catch on.
I read about these in a magazine a few years ago. The rotating barrel locking seems like a good mechanism to me, and this one was the first pistol I had ever heard of that used it. Now whenever I hear that a pistol uses a rotating barrel, I think, "oh, like an Obregon".
Why would that design not be adopted, modified, and improved. That seems like quite a nice improvement on an already great design.
probably due to mexican gun laws without a contract with the army theres not enough money to support the a healthy gun market
Dave, it is a modification of a great design ( to be clear, I am referring to Browning's design) ... but not an improvement. apart from terribly shoddy manufacturing (anyone who ships out a gun with so many tool marks is shoddy and should stick to making shovels ... to say the least) and the reason why these mods did not catch the attention of excellent manufacturers who produce 1911 clones is that they are mods, but by far not improvements....
As it goes, a design needs to be so overwhelmingly better than the current design to justify the cost of replacing it. And though the Obregon has some clever improvements, it's only incrementally better than the 1911 and there's no getting around the already established reputation of the 1911. In short, it wasn't better _enough._
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine , the fact that a country that was fighting (and thankfully losing it) a war shipped out poorly finished guns is not a good excuse.....
@@dannylevin1839 aslong as none of the bearing surfaces are rough, tool marks in the cavities of the gun mean squat
Not sure about the magazine safety, but I love the combo stop and safety lever!
No chance of scratching the frame during disassembly.
The Red Baron of Germany actually used a machine gun that was invented in Mexico ..
kartoffel Salat I just need to find that video from a Mexican TH-cam channel .. I’ll link it here ..
I read a while back that (some) of the WW1 German pilots carried ‘Mondragon’ rifles on board their planes, but I do not recall a specific Mexican machine gun?? Apparently German’s prior to WW1 liked the Mondragon rifle, but didn’t have enough to supply the Kaiser’s army when war broke out, so the few rifles they had went to the German Air Force..
Alvaro Corral very true indeed bro I’m proud to have a last name as a legendary rifle!
@kartoffel Salat
México built weapons for Germany and France arround that time in exchange of weapons, the Saint-chammond-mondragón howitzer was being built for the French, and the Mondragón 1908 for the Germans.
In exchange, we got Hotchkiss 1914 and Mausers 98.
And the first dogfight ever happened in México, it was fought with handguns, he probably mixed up those 2 bits of information
Really?
This gun is awasome, I'd totally buy that if it was manufactured
I love simplifying things & making them dual purpose;
this right here is the definition of that. :)
This is the most mechanically elegant take on the 1911 I've ever seen. Such a shame it didn't catch on.
Teşekkürler.
One of those "what if?" moments in gun design. Pretty damn neat. Should have caught on.
This thing is actually ingenious. I'm very impressed by the engineers who worked on this. The magazine safety alone is a brilliant idea, let alone all of the other improvements made. It basically guarantees there will never be a misfire from someone forgetting that there is a round in the chamber when taking the magazine out. If you ask me, this should be a safety feature present in every single modern production pistol sold to the civilian market because it's that good of an idea. Mistakes happen and I feel like this could prevent a lot of unfortunate accidents.
They're all simple things that I never would have thought about needing to be changed, but improving the little things makes the entire piece better.
Thank you. Even though I consider myself a big 1911 fan, and would have to say, it is my favorite handgun, I was totally unaware of this pistol. Thank you again.
You didn't mention anything about it's reliability. Have you ever shot it, or heard anything regarding it's reliability?
Hi Mark! I doubt he has had a chance to fire any; an easily available to rent and close replica to the feeling to this would be a Beretta PX4 storm (as far as recoil is concerned); one of those in .40 with some stout stuff could give you the same feeling. As far as reliability goes, it was adopted by a major military power with the resources to put WAY more testing on any platform any of us guntubers ever could, so if you were interested in obtaining one (or any older MILSURP gun), I'd have a qualified gunsmith check the bore, chamber, and MOST IMPORTANTLY the headspace; depending on the condition of course, I would recommend a new set of springs; at least a main spring and recoil spring if you can, if you're like me and collect MILSURP's to actually be shooters. Good luck!
There is an older video of him firing it.
Yes he did, but video is old and the ammo was bad
There are some very elegant changes to the pistol.
Would definitely have one of these, over the 'normal' 1911
Never heard of this pistol before. Very cool design.
I'm really liking that takedown pin/safety lever.
This gun looks like it improved on the 1911 in just about every category. Very impressive!
These videos are actively helping me through my depression Thank you, man! Keep it up! You have a very even voice and I love the info. Thank you!
Why do you have depression?
@@therealartboy I have a mood disorder where my mood crashes every now and then and I get super depressed for like 6 months or more at a time.
@@Heuristiks but you can fix these issues knowing the reasons, I had depression before but I fixed it.
@@therealartboy Ok thanks for the info.
Oh man, I was hoping for a Danny Trejo pistol mini gun.
Still interesting though.
Well...there is the Trejo machine pistol.
Ja ja ja ja ese wey!😂
Very interesting 1911 from Systema Obregon !!!!!!! Thanks for showing it Gun Jesus
Awesome firearm and now its something to be on the look out for as a historical Gun. I like how Mexican 1911 or the "Escuarda" are preferred in the 9mm Super Round or the .38 Super Round.
Man thanks again for showing us the history of firearms from Mexico Gracias!.
1911 manufacturers should look into perhaps licensing and selling these, I know would buy one
I was sold when I heard that one single piece operated the safety and slide release.
Just one more example of how a mass produced item can be perfected on a small scale. I might be wrong, but it seems to me, that this gun is better made in some ways, than standard 1911. Thank you, Ian.
I know this video is old, but I want to ask one thing about this pistol. Why? Why did he make it a rotory barrel design when a straight 1911 clone would have been easier. Was he just trying to be different and unique? Was he trying to solve some perceived weakness in the original design? I know this is a difficult question to answer because it requires one to be able to read the mind of the designer, but I was hoping he explained his motivation either in company literature or in interviews.
Precisión a rotary barrel 👍🏻
Para no ser copia del 1911. lo intento, dicen que es copia, pero no lo es
When I was sick at home I litturally ate the gun books my father owend. A lot of mysteries about al that different functions like open bolt, gas operated, short recoil, long recoil, forward recoil etc.! This channel withe Ian is just great. Solving all my questions!
Damn it, I was actually hoping you _wouldn't_ do a video on this one..... ;)
On the topic of the mag safety, one thing I've learned from owning examples of these is that if you try to file on the inside surfaces in an attempt to disable the mag safety, all you'll do is brick the gun as the mag safety will no longer be able to be activated by a mag. A previous owner tried this, and then tried to fix it which grossly and negatively affected the trigger pull.
Yeeeesh
One of my first rifles had been "adjusted" by the owner for a lighter trigger pull..... which also meant that if you engaged the safety then pulled the trigger, it was very slightly heavier than normal, then the safety would disengage and the rifle would fire. I know it's fun to tinker with things guys but please be honest about your skills and don't mess with functioning parts unless you know what you're doing!
If you brick this gun by filing the mag catch, it's 100% because you didn't understand how the safety worked and had no business modifying the components.
@@jameshealy4594 Yeah I saw something similar on an 8mm mauser. Had a bolt handle welded to the bolt by someone using an easy bake welder. 1 out of 7 or 8 times when you engaged the safety with a round in the chamber it would go off... I'm not a gun control nazi or anything but if a gun gets that bad then it really should get lost in a boating accident
Ian this is the kind of weapon design you start your channel with to grab our attention.
Be interesting to feel how the rotational impulse affects recoil; you don't notice it in a rifle because the bolt face is such a small amount of the overall mass, but a pistol barrel makes up a larger proportion of the whole.
I’ve been interested in this design since your first video. This gets rid of the swing link which can be a weakness of Mr. Browning’s design. It’s part of the reason I purchased a Beretta APX. Thank you for posting this video.
Getting rid of that link does seem like a pretty major improvement, assuming the system is reliable.
when I think of a mexican 1911 a nickel or gold Colt in .38 Super with pearl grips comes to mind, maybe with additional engraving as well
Don't forget about the Slovakian Grand Power pistols, still very much in production. Interesting guns with a slightly unique take on a rotating barrel locking system in the use of a roller bearing to act as the cam lug. Also the safety only models have a remarkably excellent DA trigger pull, which unfortunately doesn't carry over quite as well to the decocker/safety models.
Ahuevo si hay algo mexicano xddd
Amo tu canal ❤️❤️❤️
Esta arma debe aparecer en pelis
Ian, this pistol is the basis of the COLT OFFENSIVE HANDGUN, you did a video of in 2014! A Mexican version of the 1911, with a rotating barrel, and a little block with the cam track in the reciever. DEAD RINGER!
I need to see this boy on the range. I'd love to see how it performs against a standard 1911.
As a Mexican, am proud our domestic guns were showed in your channel, I hope you can do a video on the FX-05 Xiuhcóatl rifle. or even on the Mosquetón M1954 rifle or the Mendoza smg or mgs.
Ñ
Justo hoy acaba de salir un video del Mendoza 1939
Thats awesome, clever guy.
Hello and thanks for this video that I came across tonight. I do not remember of hearing about this model of the 1911. As I could not even imagine that such thing existed. 1000 Thanks for the sharing. ❤
Finally a 1911 I would actually buy.
thank you for re doing this video Mexico is very fascinating
I wish current manufacturers produce a clone of this.
What a neat, rational piece of design. Thanks for posting.
Beretta PX4 Storm represent!
As a Mexican American I feel flattered that you actually Made a video about our 1911 and happy :)
great info
I have a Stoeger (Beretta) Cougar 8000. Fun gun and the ejection pattern is wild. My only gripe is that the reassembly process is touchy because the recoil spring isn't captured by the cam block. Beretta fixed that in the PX4, but they made the grip skinny slick polymer.
The Slovakian Grand Power pistols use a rotating barrel design.
I have one. It's the Grand Power Q100 which is the striker fired version. It's a great pistol in every way but one: the trigger sucks. The K100 is the hammer fired version, which I hear has a much better trigger. The Q100's trigger is extremely mushy feeling, like the 180º opposite of a nice crisp trigger. However it's very light and predictable. Mechanically it's similar to a Glock trigger, but without the Glock's crispness. I have no idea why.
I've fired them back-to back and I've gotta be honest my Glock does _not_ produce better groups. Perhaps they've gone through the mushiness singularity and come out the other side? It's very nice to shoot. The rotating barrel is highly accurate and absorbs some of the recoil.
@@tarmaque I have both the regular K100 and a Q1 with factory flat trigger (2019 edition) - the flat trigger is awesome and definitely not a glockishly mushy...the reset is not so short like the K100, but yet, its still one of the shortest.
I like my K100; definitely less muzzle rise and recoil than a comparable tilting-barrel design
Where was I six months ago? I am glad you cover this 1911! I've looking for one! The rotation barrel is an improvement in my opinion.
Some really interesting innovation
Read an article on this one years ago. Pictures don't do justice in how it operates. Thanks Ian for showing how it operates.
Holy crap, that's a cool gun. absolute genius. Who'd thought Mexico had it going? Are you going to shoot it? Wonder how it'd shoot against a 1911.
th-cam.com/video/3wLU8zTQKQU/w-d-xo.html
a nice bonus
of the rotating barrel
is when you have a full length
recoil guide rod the lock-open
shows them parallel for those
w/ that OCD/preference
With everyone making a 10911/1911A1 copy these days - how about someone making a copy of this????????? I would buy one. I would even buy a Turkish copy - which I usually detest!!!!
Obregon getting rid of the pesky plunger tube was more than enough to convince me it was better than the 1911. And then I watched on and then felt sad they don't make these anymore.
there appears to be a typo in your title :( sYstema vs sIstema
Maybe that's how mexican works?
In Spanish is 'sistema'
Nice shoutout to the Steyr "Hahn" 1912. That gun just looks so cool to me. If only it had detachable magazines, I'd say it would still be viable today.
I’ve never cared for magazine safety’s but that’s a cool pistol
i wonder if the rotating barrel design helps to mitigate recoil (blow-back) as compared to the standard 1911.
I continue to be baffled as to why people seem to think magazine safeties are a good idea, but that's a pretty slick way to implement one. Lots of other very clever engineering here too.
The.45 was known as the most dangerous weapon issued, too many guys accidentally shot by one of their own, usually with an "empty" gun. Mag removed but forgot the round in the chamber.
@@robertball3578 any semi auto would do the same thing, probably bevause guys were used to revolvers where you can see the bullets in the chambers
I am shocked no one besides Baretta will touch a rotating barrel on a pistol, it feels so smooth to fire.
I had one of the Mauser rotating barrel pistols in 40 automatic. It was a pleasure to shoot, but not reliable with parts breakage. After being sent for repair twice, I sold it.
Mexico was on the road to be a military power, but that is not convenient for America. US financed the Mexican revolution to take out porfirio Diaz and set presidents under American orders, that strategy is called cheap war. Innovations stopped becouse that. Amazing video
Wow, as a woman, I'm very impressed with the manufacturing that this beauty has! I wouldn't mind owning one. Great video, thank you!!
The Mexican aproach to the steyr hann- colt 1911..a true hibrid.
I do have one those amazing pistol it was belong to my grandead he was in the mexican army for around 35 years and he gave to me before past away
Simplified controls, more slide machining, more waste materials from slide machining.
A trade off.
More bulk and mass on the slide and front end of the pistol, too. Definitely not just shoving this thing into a 1911 holster.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine
a rotating barrel will provide better accuracy than a tilting barrel. because a tilting barrel can still lock with some tilt. it may not return to the same point every shot.
depending on ammo and return spring age.
slight differences in the rotation of a rotating barrel will not effect accuracy nearly as much.
that's the paper answer for not using a tilting barrel system.
There were some Obregón pistols as Armas de cargo at the Base Aerea de Santa Lucia (St. Lucy Airbase) of the Fuerza Aerea Mexicana (Mexican Air Force) back in the 80s. Me and my fellow scale modelers visited the Airbase almost every Saturday back then.
Mexicans' can really re-engineer the hell out of thing's...
Wow, I had no idea this gun existed, I'm very impressed by the features.
That's one nice 1911 I wonder if that is a more accurate pistol
Thank you for the video, Mexican American here and I had no idea there was a manufacturer That made a model similar to the colt.
I approve of this gun.
Give Mr. Obregon a medal and a piece of Texas!
You should do a review of the FX-05...if you can ever get a hold of one.
Oh how I have missed the children's cartoons in the recommended section of a forgotten weapons video.
Jonathan Stummer
... Murica?
@@AgentTasmania Good ol' TH-cam's recommendation algorithm that thinks everything educational is interchangeable.
Gun Jesus is back with another fantastic video :D
The plunger tube can, and does, get loose and fall off!
And I can tell you from experience, it is a considerable and lengthy step in the manufacture of the pistol.
It would be nice to see these brought back into production. Beautiful handgun!
I didn't know that my friend's last name is a pistol brand (the Obregon part of course)
There was a Mexican president Obregon, and if you believe Wikipedia its an Irish name, commonly written as O'Brien in English speaking countries.
Obregon was the general responsible for defeating Villa late in the revolution, after Obregon had betrayed the fledgling new government the dog
wow you know alot of knowledge of guns goodjob thankyou from Akio Utsunomiya from Winnipeg, Canada
genius improvements
standing on the giants shldrs
of ultimate firearms genius