Sam saying mini painting is meditation is so true for me. I usually paint when I get off work to de-stress and relax. And I love when you have a new episode out cause it makes mini painting just that much better!
1:09:59 The part I love is when I get all the main volumes done and I can start to add in lots of tiny details, like little scratches or skin blemishes etc. I hate prep and base coating, and the process of getting to where I can add in the tiny details is alright. PS Double Dragon is awesome.
Ok, ok! I admit it. It was ME! I tattled on you to Angel Giraldez for saying nice stuff about him. Just left a comment on his instagram & he responded instantly wanting to check out the best mini painting podcast ever. And I'd do it again, too!
Am I the only one who loves the very beginning of a project? From coming up with an idea, designing the layout and composition of the piece to planning the steps that would lead to the end result, I find it to be the creative moment and I love it. Amazing podcast!
That story at 8:15.. as someone who is a professional carpenter.. holy shit did i see that one coming. This is why amateurs shouldn't work with powertools. I don't wanna be a an ass about it, but if you don't have the training you shouldn't use a powertool. Do it by hand. Because that's safe. Sometimes its little things, that you just don't know about if you're not trained, that make the difference between safe work and something blowing up in your face. I've literally driven students at our university to the hospital with half their scalps ripped off their skulls, with them glaring at the stumps where their fingers used to be or crying desperately because they realized that they'll probably never see again. All because they didn't wanna listen when i gave the safety talk. Because safety is "uncool". Because "what's the worst that could happen? It'll be allright". Because "ah, it'll work. I just want this done fast". Because confidence is always strong in those who shouldn't be confident. Longs story short: Just be safe. Life is short. You don't wanna spend it as a cripple. No hobby is worth that ;) I know i'll probably come across as some old, overprotective geezer.. but in the end i just want people to be healthy and have an enjoyable future.
I’d like to give my 2 cents on this matter as consumer and not creator as i feel you mostly cover the content creator aspect. Social media is very useful in many ways, it is an never ending source of information, tutorials, research and many more. But it is also a big source of frustration. I feel like as a casual painter one sometimes feels like they are never good enough. For example, years ago before the interwebs and social media one could have been the best painter in the game store, in the hobby shop, neighborhood, the scale of comparison was smaller and there was a bigger sense of accomplishment. Better painters are always out there but nowadays it is so easy to find better work that it gets frustrating sometimes, at least that how I feel Thank you guys for the great content.
Re Mr Latham using non-GW stuff: It used to be a bit of an open secret that GW studio painters didn't stick to GW products. Windsor and Newton inks were popular with them for a long time, but they had a big crackdown in the mid-90s when everything had to be on-brand. This led to a strange period where they would have photos in WD of the studio team at work where you could clearly see all these non-GW paints and inks on their desks, but their painting guides said "I achieved this using Blood Angels Orange and Bad Moon Yellow". Eventually they stopped including photos of the studio painters' desks. Maybe try finding some former Eavy Metal painters and interviewing them - you'd be much more likely to get an honest look behind the curtain than asking a current GW employee.
I have a number of GW books and such that clearly show GW desks and even book-guides that tell you to use many non-GW tools and terrain pieces, etc. such as foam all the way to about 2005, but yeah, it was big in the 1990s, but also the 2000s. I can only assume that around 2010-2020, you won't find any non-GW stuff in any of their books or guides.
You have actually fully described around 43:00 what happened to me! I have painted my Abaddon and won Warhammer community painting competition just this April, new GW hotness is real on social media. Btw. Love the podcast, something great that I can listen to when painting :)
I’ve never painted a miniature in my life but for some reason I keep coming back every episode. Half the time I’m totally lost but I like the cut of their jib
Honestly really enjoy the full process and modifying models with bits similar to conversion. Still new but honestly i find basing calming, and taking the time to clean lines, then jumping into highlighting and details is exciting.
I love the completed process, seeing a final model I can post with pride. I also like the AHA moment, when I learn a new thing, and apply it well. Trying to make every model a learning experience in SOME way, helps with those tedious moments of painting EVERY feather on a bird or what have you
Love the podcast fellas, it's perfect for painting sessions!C&C in my mind has always been Comments and Critiques, so it's been completely valid for someone to reply to those with 'That looks awesome' becuase it's a comment which was requested. They want both the comments of 'Sick Model Bro' and the Critiques of 'Maybe work on your yellow layering next time'.
Omg! Awesome to see Sam on the cast. Love your podcast guys I'm seriously going to support your channel on Patreon, you are the freshest thing on the market. Keep the shit up!
I genuinely do enjoy almost all aspects of painting, it is how I relax and practice mindfulness. My favorite has to be anytime I can get my airbrush involved. My least favorite would have to be anytime I have to deal with metals as that is my weakest link that I'm still working on improving. I feel the final portion of painting a mini can be highly stressful as you have to worry about dropping the mini or accidentally spilling or splashing paint/glue, etc. onto the mini in a way that will cause you to have to start over.
For the discs at that scale I use a hole punch, not the ones from school but the kind you punch in leather or tarps. There are reasonably priced little kits with a variety of cutting heads (usually down to 1mm-ish) sold at hobby and decor stores (like Joann's) if you still need to make those you may want to give that a try. Good luck with the build!
@@JCPRuckus I don't understand 'negative criticism', why is that a good thing/why would you want that? Criticism itself is positive/important to growth/the subject, it's not negative. That's not what criticism means (it also implies that all criticism is negative).
@@TheClassicWorld - "Criticism" *is* inherently negative. If you aren't giving "negative" feedback, then you are not offering "criticism". Now, there is "constructive" criticism. Which is criticism that offers the negative feedback in a way that is directly actionable towards growth. Sure, that's "useful", but it's still a "negative" response to your work. "You've got visible brush strokes and loss of detail. Try thinning your paints", is better than, "That looks like crap". But they are both ways of saying, "The thing you did is not acceptable". And I don't know how being called "unacceptable" is anything but negative.
Whenever I think about social media, I always think of a quote from Immanuel Kant about popular/public opinion. "Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of a few; and number not voices, but weigh them." I think that sometimes we all need some guidance, or someone else's opinion, or even someone/something that serves as an inspiration to continue growing in our craft; the internet, and social media allows us to reach such a vast number of people that with some diligence, we can more easily find those voices which we can "weigh". The number of opinions or the depth of critique you could receive just 60 years ago is drastically different than today. Today, a kid in Arizona from a small town can see the work of and draw inspiration from literally millions of people that 60 years ago, he probably never would have been able to speak a word to. That level of exposure isn't available to everyone in the world, but it's still connecting us to one another further and faster than we ever could have been before now. In my opinion, the problem comes when it's less about the development of the craft, and more about the media, and that can be a very fine line indeed.
I still enjoy the "tedious painting bits" because I'm still learning them. My enjoyment comes from mastering those incremental steps one at a time. Even though it's a neverending staircase - there's always going to be something new to learn.
I love these! The one thing I kind of disagree with the comment at 38:33 because I PERSONALLY love the space marines. When I look for inspiration for my models, I am looking for other artist's work. I think for myself, since I'm starting to get serious about painting, I'm content with the level of difficulty in making a good kitbashed Space Marine. Eventually, when my skills grow, I may find myself bored by Space Marines, but as of right now, I love them. It is unique to see the growth of artistic creativity, and I am curious if I'll ever get to the point where I no longer enjoy Space Marines. I hope not, but who knows? Anyway, rant over... lol. back to you boys!
I finished up 3 more ad mech guys and got my airbrush up and running! Honestly minis have made my social media better. I’ve tweaked my Facebook settings so basically all I see are minis and I love having instagram to share my work and discover other people to inspire me! Also having Scott’s discord for discussion and feedback is really helpful!
I really like the building process. It may be my favorite part. The beginning of painting a mini is super fun because I can just slop colors around until I find something I like. I rarely plan a color scheme ahead of time and prefer experimenting. The end is pretty fun but more often than not I fall into the trap of making everything absolutely perfect instead of calling it good and moving on. I should probably hire someone to smack me around when I'm getting obsessive like that. Painting any sort of trim on a mini is bullshit every single time and for some reason I really dislike painting guns. I do have fun with the whole process, there are just a few gnarly speed bumps.
I think I like every part of miniature painting. I even like all the prep work, including removing mold lines (don't like prepping hard plastic or metal mini's though). The only thing that sometimes isn't great is laying down base coats (except when I use a airbrush).
It also seems like a lot of people see their social media feedback and suddenly feel like a big fish in a small pond and then stagnate because they enjoy the praise from their relatively small group of followers. Soon after they are preaching how techniques “should” be done or try to come off as an expert. Something you don’t seem to see very much from the actual top painters who stay humble and never claim to have all the answers.
The group idea is very similar to what Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and their peers did. It was known as the Inklings ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inklings ). It's a solid idea and I find that this works for almost anything creative.
About making tiny diameter discs: get a Leather punching tool (usually used to make additional holes in leather belts) and use it on sheets of Plastic card (in my experience it works well for up to 2.5 mm thick plastic card and the 'punching tips' usually vary from 2 mm up to 5 mm diameters). Cheers!
I enjoy the converting aspect the most. Being able to take a figure and give it a different story and life is awesome. But for me this also had it's own set of problems. Conversion fatigue is a big one. I spend too much time sculpting and being overly critical of my own decisions I often leave projects abandoned for extended periods of time, or break it down to start over. My other bane is opening things up for suggestions, I have gotten better at following through on them, but it also helps me shape my projects into something more pleasing for everyone.
Brilliant as per! as a new/returning painter I am guilty of the CnC on the insta as much as I watch videos and try to paint/convert like a pro on every model and have binged basically all the videos on this channel (Goober, DL, TTM, and 80% of VV) I see some of the issues my models have but having someone elses view is good. But I am also guilty of the wanting some gratification mainly that it's getting better rather than it's good. what I really need to do is just PAINT MORE MINI'S!
You definitely fall into the 'putting in the work' category, and because of that you shouldn't be ashamed to ask for other's assistance! I may have come across as saying 'don't EVER ask for C+C', but I only meant 'don't rely on it over being self sufficient'. Keep up the good work and SLAY THAT GRAY (if i keep saying it, maybe it will catch on?).
I enjoy the majority of the mini painting process (though I am still really new at it), but I struggle with the final details at the end. I get to a point where I think it looks good, but I know I can stretch and do more. But between the fear of screwing up what I have done, and struggling with my "this is good enough to make me happy" attitude I end up struggling to push at the end. I have to remind myself that going further will make me better overall, and that I always am happy I did after.
If you’re looking for articulation joints, look for Gundam/GunPla models. They usually have these ball and socket joints that are sold separately. Those are more efficient to use rather than scratch building the entire thing.
Great episode as always, I'm not sure why I love listening to both of you so much but it seriously works. Thanks for making every other Monday awesome! Also holy sh(xx), CAN WE GET AN EPISODE WITH SAM LENZ?!
Scott, how about using cylindrical magnets for your robot's joints? Plain side over plain side for hands vs. forearm rotations, or curved sides over plain or other curved (deponds on how you are using them) for upper arm vs. forearm (you can even use the magnet as the actual elbow)
@@trappedunderplastic Given your answer I suppose it's too late for hints on the topic. Anyway. Regarding using the curved side of cylindrical magnets, note that magnets are not always polarized on the plain sides (like the one we use for minis magnetization) but can also be polarized on the curved side (e.g. magnets used for rotary encoders). You need the latter if you want if you want to use the curved side to rotate two parts. And be extra careful how you mount them! You have (theoretically) 180° of rotation, than the two magnets repels each others.
The critique problem that you guys spoke about is exactly what I hate about being creative. How can I find what works and what doesn't in my painting or writing or anything else I'm doing if all I hear is "that's amazing?" It actually gets to me that people either don't care enough to find the imperfections.
love basing. love painting. Hate the unboxing when i see MOLD LINES!! also i have some problems doing army´s as i get unmotivated by doing so many of the same figure. Im working on that last part anyway. ;)
I've been looking into buying the red redgrass everlasting palette and have seen nothing bad so I would love to know why you don't like it so I can know what it has for faults.
I think Jon is 100% right about people not ACTUALLY wanting advice on how to make it better when they ask for cc. On the miniature painting reddit for example whenever someone actually gives constructive criticism, the person who posted the picture will 95% of the time defend themselves with either "oh it's not finished" or "oh I did it like that because xyz".
I use social media to connect with others in the hobby. I like to share what I have been working on to get encouragement, tips and accolades. I also like to give out those same things. I do a once a week hobby progress update and I like to see what I have completed in a week and see what others have completed in a week. It helps me also encourage people to get something done. Use social media for positivity, people.
I've been watching the Hangout and Hobby streams that GamesWorkshop has been doing during shelter-in-place. A bunch of those guys are using and talking about homemade wet palettes.
Jon and Scott: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for doing this show! It was one hour and forty-six minutes of pure "I just got my first airbrush and learned how to use washes on the same day" OMG my life will never be the same! I vote Sam as... Guy I'd most like to sit down and enjoy a scotch with and talk for hours about everything and anything! He's like the Mr. Rogers of miniature painting! Scott, I've seen a few times where you've espoused your "love" of the Red Grass wet palette. Is there any place where you have elaborated on what you find less than copacetic about it? If not, would you? :)
The Question asked at 109:59. I have been playing and painting miniatures since I was 12, I am now 38. For me personally I have trained my brain to find happiness in each step of the process by comparing it to my failures. Cleaning mold lines not fun, but as each model comes together with smooth pieces and seamless transitions I find joy in that. Taking the time to apply smooth primer that is thin and doesn't block the detail. I am not smiling while doing it, but I congratulate myself on the job well done and enjoy that step. Applying the 10th layer of watered down paint to really make my transitions smooth is tedious. But an epic blend on that helmet brings me such joy! Again for me, I find joy in each steps accomplishments. Knowing how hard I have worked on each step and technique helps keep me excited, even when I am on my 40th model in that unit. I have spent thousands of hours(actual years of my life) and thousands of dollars on this hobby. Its not a job for me it is just a hobby. No way I could devote this much of myself to something if I only enjoyed 30% of it. Not saying I don't have frustrations with it, but if you learn to look at each steps completion as an achievement, as apposed to a task. You may find more joy in the process altogether.
I somewhat enjoy the painting process. I definitely prefer the building step. Painting can be a pain especially when you do steps out of order, like I did with the box of skitarii I built for testing out some paint schemes.
On "comments & critics", I personally actually hope to get some critics when I post a mini somewhere (which happens quite rarely since I suck at taking pics of miniatures). Sure the "good job!" comments are always lovely to read, but as I want to get better and I want people to spot what could be better in my paintworks (things that I don't see by myself of course) I find sometimes the net even "too friendly", so to speak. As for getting comments by people who don't know how to paint, I agree that a comment from, say, you two guys or Kujo or DL would be taken in greatest consideration, but, for example, my gf - who has never painted a mini in her life - gives me the most honest and sometimes harshest critcism and I really get better thanks to her. I hope my English makes sense lol. Keep up the good work!
I paint display pieces pretty much 100% of the time and I feel like it is a very similar process to climbing mount Everest. In the beginning, it is very daunting, looking at the scale of the task. Most of the process is somewhat painful and at times you feel like giving up. But when you get to the top, there is no better feeling and the amount of joy is usually proportional to the amount of pain I have endured to get there. The good thing is there is no chance of dying on the way back down!
Basecoating and trying to determine what colors I should use is a nightmare hellscape for me. Building/kitbashing and then once I get past shading/basecoating it's a joy
What I enjoy about painting a miniature shifts from step to step. I dont think there is much about painting that im not enjoying whatsoever, but what makes me enjoy it changes. I enjoy deciding how to implement the color scheme of my army onto specific parts of a miniature, I enjoy figuring out how I want the edge highlighting to look, Figuring out what details i want to emphasize from the arm to the leg to the head etc. I also have a tendency to make small tests from model to model. I like painting my army red but i dont like my highlight color because the paint i use is difficult to work with so let me try a different paint with a similar color to it. While it is difficult and frustrating at times, those frustrations are usually due to my lack of experience and skill, which makes me seek out new ways to reach the look i want, which will later make painting even more fun and exciting as i figure out how to achieve the end goal.
When I painted a dewback rider from Star Wars Imperial Assault, I wanted to have a jungle theme instead of the usual desert one, I also researched lizards. Check out the Bluekop Koggelmander. That's what I went for even though it isn't a jungle species specifically, but everything in the jungle is either camo or very colorful.
Hey Scott the chronicler model is based off the class of the same name from the tabletop rpg Dengenesis. They’re basically post apocalyptic data collectors who horde tech and information from the general public. The game is made by sixmorevodka studios and is pretty cool post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting. Also the books have some of the coolest art I’ve seen in a rpg book.
I enjoy the whole process, except for the prep: cutting sprues, assembling, priming, etc. Everything else is pretty fun. Details are more fun than basecoats, but basecoats are still enjoyable.
I believe there is or should be an equation that says "Your enjoyment from a model= How much you enjoyed building and painting it - the number of small flaws you see÷ How much of a subject matter expert you are. I built a Tamiya plane kit recently, and enjoyed every minute of it because I'm not a subject matter expert, but I like them. But when I scratchbuild something like a Dio building from a blueprint, it becomes so much more of an issue because I have soon much information available that I should be able to make a perfect replica and from then on perfection = stressed and uncomfortable modelling/ painting/ weathering, etc.
Ive loved every episode youve done so far, for me i like the build the conversions if possible and the finishing processes. I think 30% was a good estimate of what i actually like to do
Hey Jon, what is your opinion on any of the McFarlane dragons? I collect them for use in D&D and I think that some of them are amazing. Just wonder your thoughts? Thanks :)
Hugely enjoyed this podcast, it explored a complex idea that had in effect spearheaded the current art movement. I’ve played around with the idea of putting my art up, but my skills are very rudimentary and rough atm. Not much worth showing. So here I am, gobbling up as much advice as possible on TH-cam like a metal leech! A slight aside that I’ve been wondering on the subject of deep diving into social media, when did it become common practice to call black people, otherwise known as persons of African descent, African Americans? I hear that particular label flung around a lot as if it’s the only acceptable terminology for an individual of that skin tone, yet it assumes they are American, like I’ve even heard it used in contexts to refer to people who have never lived in America. Is there a particular reason why this is the case? I don’t mean to sound ignorant I am just curious,
Hi, I was looking for a video where you talked about traveling but since this is this video is from Nov, I though I would ask here about how you transport minis and terrain. I am not sure how you can reply to me. (or If I will see you have replied) I really appreciate all of your videos & that you seem to have stayed humble. I would like to know what you use to transport stuff in? (if you do) (one of your reviews of warcry was the breaker for me buy into it. I was on the fence of aos or 40k for about 6 months & probably not to buy anything.) I got into Warcry which comes with some sweet terrain but it is bulky. (I even planned ahead & left some walls loose as it was sturdy enough to not glue what would have made a "t" tie in piece. It seems to work still without the glue, it sits there well in the few games I have played anyways.) One of the groupies-members just uses a cardboard shoebox for his mini & the corps rack box for the terrain he had. (the boxes look really beat up so surprised his models aren't crushed and the terrain still has paint) (i am not making fun of him just an observation) I am not sure if the others even has his own terrain. but he uses the "official" GW mini cardboard box (also very beat up looking) I have my dice & cards & bits & minis in a fishing tackle box which works great but no space for the terrain. My models yet to have paint, the tackle box is great for now. Not sure about after magnets added. (It is cramped & when I magnetize it will make it hard to remove them from the slot divider.) The largest problem for travel is the game board at 22'x30" it folds to 11x15. If it weren't cardboard & I afraid of it getting wet I might just put in a grocery bag. (I did put it into a backpack once & it started to mess up the corner, from just the one time, so will not use that again.) I thought a toolbox might work great. (since the tackle box worked great.) Well I found one at harborfreight! The map board works as it can mount to the lid. It does hold all the terrain. I just don't have space for the minis. At this point, I might have to return it to get a cheap storage bin. (the cheap Rubbermaid/or/Sterilite 30-Quart Ultra Latch Storage Box w/White Lid and Clear Base) I really want to have it all in one box. (or more like a "box(s)" in a box, I wanted to have the minis in their own box/ or at least own compartment ) In case anyone has less stuff, then me it might be worth a look. (I wish I could post a picture of the toolbox full of my stuff.) It had the side pre-foamed & even had foamed dividers that promised adjustment The price was right at $25 on sale & has a shoulder strap and is aluminum. Here is link www.harborfreight.com/18-in-x-6-in-x-13-in-silver-aluminum-case-69315.html (and if the link gets killed) details are: The brand is: Voyager 18 in. x 6 in. x 13 in. Silver Aluminum Case SKU(s) 69315, 62272
Howdy. I’ve been painting for just over a year now, mostly space wolves at the moment. I gotta say, my least favourite part of painting is the base coat. I don’t have an airbrush and painting that baby blue over and over again by hand is a pain in the arse. I enjoy all the other aspects of it though
Double dragon/battletoads crossover was the best game in the series. Can’t believe Scott isn’t old enough to know the double dragons beat em up games. There was a movie for Christ sake. You guys don’t look apart in age. I wouldn’t have guessed there is an age gap.
The whole social media ruining miniature painting , it is also that way with everything else, gaming used to be more personal, you used to care about the other people in the game as human beings and now so many people disconnect from the others on the other end and can be mean and nasty and not feel guilty or relish in hurting others? and I am sure it is with other avenues as well :( We as people are so into how many like do I have or upset why I have dislikes or rude comments , this is one thing that is leading to suicide and depression in younger and younger kids , that need to be liked by people that don't even matter in their lives :( The more connected over computers and phones we become the worse it has gotten. I will stop now :) great topic btw
That was awesome, guys. Also fuck the begrudgers, Scott! You're a fantastic painter. You're very good too, John :-P Serious question- What don't you like about the Redgrass Games wet palette? I love mine, but I used to use a wobbly home made one before it so it's been a massive improvement.
I also think that SM's being the forefront of the franchise but the Lore is just amazing. That story sucks you in, if there was better lore it might help bring other aspects of the franchise forward. Also the SMs start out as human, theoretically we all could have possibly become a SM, maybe that's why people are drawn to them.
Almost 2 hours of miniature hobby nerd talk. PURE GOLD.
Sam saying mini painting is meditation is so true for me. I usually paint when I get off work to de-stress and relax. And I love when you have a new episode out cause it makes mini painting just that much better!
Amen, brother.
1:09:59 The part I love is when I get all the main volumes done and I can start to add in lots of tiny details, like little scratches or skin blemishes etc. I hate prep and base coating, and the process of getting to where I can add in the tiny details is alright. PS Double Dragon is awesome.
KUJO LOVES MICRO TEXTURES?!
@@Ninjon I'm all about that little deets life Jon.
Hello senpapi
@@KujoPainting your "how to paint leather" is awesome
Ok, ok! I admit it. It was ME! I tattled on you to Angel Giraldez for saying nice stuff about him. Just left a comment on his instagram & he responded instantly wanting to check out the best mini painting podcast ever. And I'd do it again, too!
Am I the only one who loves the very beginning of a project? From coming up with an idea, designing the layout and composition of the piece to planning the steps that would lead to the end result, I find it to be the creative moment and I love it.
Amazing podcast!
Nerds who just love to talk about nerd stuff. I cannot get enough of this! Keep making these, I love the direction your taking these podcasts.
That story at 8:15.. as someone who is a professional carpenter.. holy shit did i see that one coming. This is why amateurs shouldn't work with powertools. I don't wanna be a an ass about it, but if you don't have the training you shouldn't use a powertool. Do it by hand. Because that's safe. Sometimes its little things, that you just don't know about if you're not trained, that make the difference between safe work and something blowing up in your face. I've literally driven students at our university to the hospital with half their scalps ripped off their skulls, with them glaring at the stumps where their fingers used to be or crying desperately because they realized that they'll probably never see again. All because they didn't wanna listen when i gave the safety talk. Because safety is "uncool". Because "what's the worst that could happen? It'll be allright". Because "ah, it'll work. I just want this done fast". Because confidence is always strong in those who shouldn't be confident.
Longs story short: Just be safe. Life is short. You don't wanna spend it as a cripple. No hobby is worth that ;) I know i'll probably come across as some old, overprotective geezer.. but in the end i just want people to be healthy and have an enjoyable future.
I’d like to give my 2 cents on this matter as consumer and not creator as i feel you mostly cover the content creator aspect.
Social media is very useful in many ways, it is an never ending source of information, tutorials, research and many more. But it is also a big source of frustration.
I feel like as a casual painter one sometimes feels like they are never good enough. For example, years ago before the interwebs and social media one could have been the best painter in the game store, in the hobby shop, neighborhood, the scale of comparison was smaller and there was a bigger sense of accomplishment.
Better painters are always out there but nowadays it is so easy to find better work that it gets frustrating sometimes, at least that how I feel
Thank you guys for the great content.
Re Mr Latham using non-GW stuff: It used to be a bit of an open secret that GW studio painters didn't stick to GW products. Windsor and Newton inks were popular with them for a long time, but they had a big crackdown in the mid-90s when everything had to be on-brand. This led to a strange period where they would have photos in WD of the studio team at work where you could clearly see all these non-GW paints and inks on their desks, but their painting guides said "I achieved this using Blood Angels Orange and Bad Moon Yellow". Eventually they stopped including photos of the studio painters' desks. Maybe try finding some former Eavy Metal painters and interviewing them - you'd be much more likely to get an honest look behind the curtain than asking a current GW employee.
I have a number of GW books and such that clearly show GW desks and even book-guides that tell you to use many non-GW tools and terrain pieces, etc. such as foam all the way to about 2005, but yeah, it was big in the 1990s, but also the 2000s. I can only assume that around 2010-2020, you won't find any non-GW stuff in any of their books or guides.
You have actually fully described around 43:00 what happened to me! I have painted my Abaddon and won Warhammer community painting competition just this April, new GW hotness is real on social media. Btw. Love the podcast, something great that I can listen to when painting :)
I’ve never painted a miniature in my life but for some reason I keep coming back every episode. Half the time I’m totally lost but I like the cut of their jib
Honestly really enjoy the full process and modifying models with bits similar to conversion. Still new but honestly i find basing calming, and taking the time to clean lines, then jumping into highlighting and details is exciting.
I love the completed process, seeing a final model I can post with pride. I also like the AHA moment, when I learn a new thing, and apply it well. Trying to make every model a learning experience in SOME way, helps with those tedious moments of painting EVERY feather on a bird or what have you
Love the podcast fellas, it's perfect for painting sessions!C&C in my mind has always been Comments and Critiques, so it's been completely valid for someone to reply to those with 'That looks awesome' becuase it's a comment which was requested. They want both the comments of 'Sick Model Bro' and the Critiques of 'Maybe work on your yellow layering next time'.
Omg! Awesome to see Sam on the cast. Love your podcast guys I'm seriously going to support your channel on Patreon, you are the freshest thing on the market. Keep the shit up!
35:30 = Main topic
I genuinely do enjoy almost all aspects of painting, it is how I relax and practice mindfulness. My favorite has to be anytime I can get my airbrush involved. My least favorite would have to be anytime I have to deal with metals as that is my weakest link that I'm still working on improving. I feel the final portion of painting a mini can be highly stressful as you have to worry about dropping the mini or accidentally spilling or splashing paint/glue, etc. onto the mini in a way that will cause you to have to start over.
love this podcast. eeeasy in my top3.
///edit: PLEASE scott never talk about movies again, just let jon take that part ;D
Sonny is wise :)
Now I'm just gonna talk about movies more.
- Scott
For the discs at that scale I use a hole punch, not the ones from school but the kind you punch in leather or tarps. There are reasonably priced little kits with a variety of cutting heads (usually down to 1mm-ish) sold at hobby and decor stores (like Joann's) if you still need to make those you may want to give that a try. Good luck with the build!
I thought it stood for "Comment & Critique"
"(Positive) Comments and (Negative) criticism", but, yes, exactly this.
Me too :D
@@JCPRuckus I don't understand 'negative criticism', why is that a good thing/why would you want that? Criticism itself is positive/important to growth/the subject, it's not negative. That's not what criticism means (it also implies that all criticism is negative).
@@TheClassicWorld - "Criticism" *is* inherently negative. If you aren't giving "negative" feedback, then you are not offering "criticism".
Now, there is "constructive" criticism. Which is criticism that offers the negative feedback in a way that is directly actionable towards growth. Sure, that's "useful", but it's still a "negative" response to your work. "You've got visible brush strokes and loss of detail. Try thinning your paints", is better than, "That looks like crap". But they are both ways of saying, "The thing you did is not acceptable". And I don't know how being called "unacceptable" is anything but negative.
Whenever I think about social media, I always think of a quote from Immanuel Kant about popular/public opinion. "Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means. But seek the testimony of a few; and number not voices, but weigh them." I think that sometimes we all need some guidance, or someone else's opinion, or even someone/something that serves as an inspiration to continue growing in our craft; the internet, and social media allows us to reach such a vast number of people that with some diligence, we can more easily find those voices which we can "weigh". The number of opinions or the depth of critique you could receive just 60 years ago is drastically different than today. Today, a kid in Arizona from a small town can see the work of and draw inspiration from literally millions of people that 60 years ago, he probably never would have been able to speak a word to. That level of exposure isn't available to everyone in the world, but it's still connecting us to one another further and faster than we ever could have been before now.
In my opinion, the problem comes when it's less about the development of the craft, and more about the media, and that can be a very fine line indeed.
I still enjoy the "tedious painting bits" because I'm still learning them. My enjoyment comes from mastering those incremental steps one at a time. Even though it's a neverending staircase - there's always going to be something new to learn.
Awwwww yeah boiiiiii
We got pictures now!
There are definitely moments in painting that I do not like but it's worth it when the end product comes together. You're not alone.
Slow day at work, perfect chance to listen to another entertaining episode! Thanks for the continuing great content Jon & Scott
I love these! The one thing I kind of disagree with the comment at 38:33 because I PERSONALLY love the space marines. When I look for inspiration for my models, I am looking for other artist's work. I think for myself, since I'm starting to get serious about painting, I'm content with the level of difficulty in making a good kitbashed Space Marine. Eventually, when my skills grow, I may find myself bored by Space Marines, but as of right now, I love them. It is unique to see the growth of artistic creativity, and I am curious if I'll ever get to the point where I no longer enjoy Space Marines. I hope not, but who knows?
Anyway, rant over... lol. back to you boys!
2 hours of pure bliss nerdy podcast and nice to see sam at the end guys.
Loving these podcasts guys! Binge watching/listening to these as I slay the grey.
Sam Lenz, lookin like a Heavy Metal Santa Claus 🤘😎
I appreciated the Aputure lighting reference :)
Ohhh my favorite time of the week again !!! Love you guys !
I finished up 3 more ad mech guys and got my airbrush up and running! Honestly minis have made my social media better. I’ve tweaked my Facebook settings so basically all I see are minis and I love having instagram to share my work and discover other people to inspire me! Also having Scott’s discord for discussion and feedback is really helpful!
I really like the building process. It may be my favorite part.
The beginning of painting a mini is super fun because I can just slop colors around until I find something I like. I rarely plan a color scheme ahead of time and prefer experimenting.
The end is pretty fun but more often than not I fall into the trap of making everything absolutely perfect instead of calling it good and moving on. I should probably hire someone to smack me around when I'm getting obsessive like that.
Painting any sort of trim on a mini is bullshit every single time and for some reason I really dislike painting guns.
I do have fun with the whole process, there are just a few gnarly speed bumps.
I enjoy most of miniatures I've experienced so far. Seeing the steps take shape as I do the thing is quite cathartic
I think I like every part of miniature painting. I even like all the prep work, including removing mold lines (don't like prepping hard plastic or metal mini's though). The only thing that sometimes isn't great is laying down base coats (except when I use a airbrush).
Another great podcast and good deep thoughts. Thanks for helping me power though another paint job guys!
With great content comes great sponsorability! 💪 great podcast! Looking forward to every other Monday!
The double dragon + battletoads double game was amazing
It also seems like a lot of people see their social media feedback and suddenly feel like a big fish in a small pond and then stagnate because they enjoy the praise from their relatively small group of followers. Soon after they are preaching how techniques “should” be done or try to come off as an expert. Something you don’t seem to see very much from the actual top painters who stay humble and never claim to have all the answers.
Love it guys! Every week gets better
Great episode, I’d like it if this were weekly.
1:30:30 Did Scott buy the tendys?
I enjoy everything in mini painting. Even if I get burnt once in a while. But I am enjoying it from start to finish
I literally just finished listening to Sam on "Life after the cover save" and he seems like an awesome dude
Highlight of my week guys, thank you.
The group idea is very similar to what Tolkien, C.S. Lewis and their peers did. It was known as the Inklings ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inklings ). It's a solid idea and I find that this works for almost anything creative.
TheDemonGyro omg Inklings.....
I started to listen to these again. I love this podcast.
If you matte coat the picture glass/plastic hanging on the walls, would that cut down on some of the glare from the lights?
It would just make the reflection fuzzier
About making tiny diameter discs: get a Leather punching tool (usually used to make additional holes in leather belts) and use it on sheets of Plastic card (in my experience it works well for up to 2.5 mm thick plastic card and the 'punching tips' usually vary from 2 mm up to 5 mm diameters). Cheers!
I enjoy the converting aspect the most. Being able to take a figure and give it a different story and life is awesome. But for me this also had it's own set of problems. Conversion fatigue is a big one. I spend too much time sculpting and being overly critical of my own decisions I often leave projects abandoned for extended periods of time, or break it down to start over. My other bane is opening things up for suggestions, I have gotten better at following through on them, but it also helps me shape my projects into something more pleasing for everyone.
Brilliant as per! as a new/returning painter I am guilty of the CnC on the insta as much as I watch videos and try to paint/convert like a pro on every model and have binged basically all the videos on this channel (Goober, DL, TTM, and 80% of VV) I see some of the issues my models have but having someone elses view is good. But I am also guilty of the wanting some gratification mainly that it's getting better rather than it's good. what I really need to do is just PAINT MORE MINI'S!
You definitely fall into the 'putting in the work' category, and because of that you shouldn't be ashamed to ask for other's assistance! I may have come across as saying 'don't EVER ask for C+C', but I only meant 'don't rely on it over being self sufficient'. Keep up the good work and SLAY THAT GRAY (if i keep saying it, maybe it will catch on?).
I enjoy the majority of the mini painting process (though I am still really new at it), but I struggle with the final details at the end. I get to a point where I think it looks good, but I know I can stretch and do more. But between the fear of screwing up what I have done, and struggling with my "this is good enough to make me happy" attitude I end up struggling to push at the end. I have to remind myself that going further will make me better overall, and that I always am happy I did after.
I agree with Scott on Space Marines on youtube. I would love to see more diversity of painting videos. Thanks for sharing guys.
If you’re looking for articulation joints, look for Gundam/GunPla models. They usually have these ball and socket joints that are sold separately. Those are more efficient to use rather than scratch building the entire thing.
Great episode as always, I'm not sure why I love listening to both of you so much but it seriously works. Thanks for making every other Monday awesome!
Also holy sh(xx), CAN WE GET AN EPISODE WITH SAM LENZ?!
Consider it done :)
wtf Scott?......Double Dragon......what's wrong with you?
I never had a console as a kid! My first gaming experience was warcraft III on the PC.
@@trappedunderplastic OOF
Brain trust thing is awesome! Vince started PMP (painters motivating painters) and its it's awesome.
Scott, how about using cylindrical magnets for your robot's joints? Plain side over plain side for hands vs. forearm rotations, or curved sides over plain or other curved (deponds on how you are using them) for upper arm vs. forearm (you can even use the magnet as the actual elbow)
Yeah this would have been a good idea.
- Scott
@@trappedunderplastic Given your answer I suppose it's too late for hints on the topic. Anyway. Regarding using the curved side of cylindrical magnets, note that magnets are not always polarized on the plain sides (like the one we use for minis magnetization) but can also be polarized on the curved side (e.g. magnets used for rotary encoders). You need the latter if you want if you want to use the curved side to rotate two parts. And be extra careful how you mount them! You have (theoretically) 180° of rotation, than the two magnets repels each others.
The critique problem that you guys spoke about is exactly what I hate about being creative. How can I find what works and what doesn't in my painting or writing or anything else I'm doing if all I hear is "that's amazing?" It actually gets to me that people either don't care enough to find the imperfections.
Jon you could try using a yellow oxide color as a filter to help merge the two colors.
Mark Devries that’s so crazy it just might work...
Or what ever the base color is that’s what a lot of 1/35th World War Two paints do for como patterns.
love basing. love painting. Hate the unboxing when i see MOLD LINES!! also i have some problems doing army´s as i get unmotivated by doing so many of the same figure. Im working on that last part anyway. ;)
I've been looking into buying the red redgrass everlasting palette and have seen nothing bad so I would love to know why you don't like it so I can know what it has for faults.
I think Jon is 100% right about people not ACTUALLY wanting advice on how to make it better when they ask for cc. On the miniature painting reddit for example whenever someone actually gives constructive criticism, the person who posted the picture will 95% of the time defend themselves with either "oh it's not finished" or "oh I did it like that because xyz".
I use social media to connect with others in the hobby. I like to share what I have been working on to get encouragement, tips and accolades. I also like to give out those same things. I do a once a week hobby progress update and I like to see what I have completed in a week and see what others have completed in a week. It helps me also encourage people to get something done. Use social media for positivity, people.
I've been watching the Hangout and Hobby streams that GamesWorkshop has been doing during shelter-in-place. A bunch of those guys are using and talking about homemade wet palettes.
Jon and Scott: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you for doing this show! It was one hour and forty-six minutes of pure "I just got my first airbrush and learned how to use washes on the same day" OMG my life will never be the same!
I vote Sam as... Guy I'd most like to sit down and enjoy a scotch with and talk for hours about everything and anything! He's like the Mr. Rogers of miniature painting!
Scott, I've seen a few times where you've espoused your "love" of the Red Grass wet palette. Is there any place where you have elaborated on what you find less than copacetic about it? If not, would you? :)
The Question asked at 109:59. I have been playing and painting miniatures since I was 12, I am now 38. For me personally I have trained my brain to find happiness in each step of the process by comparing it to my failures. Cleaning mold lines not fun, but as each model comes together with smooth pieces and seamless transitions I find joy in that. Taking the time to apply smooth primer that is thin and doesn't block the detail. I am not smiling while doing it, but I congratulate myself on the job well done and enjoy that step. Applying the 10th layer of watered down paint to really make my transitions smooth is tedious. But an epic blend on that helmet brings me such joy! Again for me, I find joy in each steps accomplishments. Knowing how hard I have worked on each step and technique helps keep me excited, even when I am on my 40th model in that unit. I have spent thousands of hours(actual years of my life) and thousands of dollars on this hobby. Its not a job for me it is just a hobby. No way I could devote this much of myself to something if I only enjoyed 30% of it. Not saying I don't have frustrations with it, but if you learn to look at each steps completion as an achievement, as apposed to a task. You may find more joy in the process altogether.
I somewhat enjoy the painting process.
I definitely prefer the building step.
Painting can be a pain especially when you do steps out of order, like I did with the box of skitarii I built for testing out some paint schemes.
On "comments & critics", I personally actually hope to get some critics when I post a mini somewhere (which happens quite rarely since I suck at taking pics of miniatures). Sure the "good job!" comments are always lovely to read, but as I want to get better and I want people to spot what could be better in my paintworks (things that I don't see by myself of course) I find sometimes the net even "too friendly", so to speak. As for getting comments by people who don't know how to paint, I agree that a comment from, say, you two guys or Kujo or DL would be taken in greatest consideration, but, for example, my gf - who has never painted a mini in her life - gives me the most honest and sometimes harshest critcism and I really get better thanks to her.
I hope my English makes sense lol.
Keep up the good work!
I paint display pieces pretty much 100% of the time and I feel like it is a very similar process to climbing mount Everest. In the beginning, it is very daunting, looking at the scale of the task. Most of the process is somewhat painful and at times you feel like giving up. But when you get to the top, there is no better feeling and the amount of joy is usually proportional to the amount of pain I have endured to get there. The good thing is there is no chance of dying on the way back down!
Basecoating and trying to determine what colors I should use is a nightmare hellscape for me. Building/kitbashing and then once I get past shading/basecoating it's a joy
What I enjoy about painting a miniature shifts from step to step. I dont think there is much about painting that im not enjoying whatsoever, but what makes me enjoy it changes. I enjoy deciding how to implement the color scheme of my army onto specific parts of a miniature, I enjoy figuring out how I want the edge highlighting to look, Figuring out what details i want to emphasize from the arm to the leg to the head etc. I also have a tendency to make small tests from model to model. I like painting my army red but i dont like my highlight color because the paint i use is difficult to work with so let me try a different paint with a similar color to it. While it is difficult and frustrating at times, those frustrations are usually due to my lack of experience and skill, which makes me seek out new ways to reach the look i want, which will later make painting even more fun and exciting as i figure out how to achieve the end goal.
When I painted a dewback rider from Star Wars Imperial Assault, I wanted to have a jungle theme instead of the usual desert one, I also researched lizards.
Check out the Bluekop Koggelmander. That's what I went for even though it isn't a jungle species specifically, but everything in the jungle is either camo or very colorful.
'The meat is forming in my mouth' lol Wtf indeed, Scott!
TUP: A family friendly podcast....
Hey Scott the chronicler model is based off the class of the same name from the tabletop rpg Dengenesis. They’re basically post apocalyptic data collectors who horde tech and information from the general public. The game is made by sixmorevodka studios and is pretty cool post-apocalyptic sci-fi setting. Also the books have some of the coolest art I’ve seen in a rpg book.
I hope scale 75 acquired the license in a legal way 😂
Miniac lol I believe they actually did for the degenesis models
I enjoy the whole process, except for the prep: cutting sprues, assembling, priming, etc. Everything else is pretty fun. Details are more fun than basecoats, but basecoats are still enjoyable.
“Sprudes”...dig it!👍🏻😎
I believe there is or should be an equation that says "Your enjoyment from a model= How much you enjoyed building and painting it - the number of small flaws you see÷ How much of a subject matter expert you are.
I built a Tamiya plane kit recently, and enjoyed every minute of it because I'm not a subject matter expert, but I like them. But when I scratchbuild something like a Dio building from a blueprint, it becomes so much more of an issue because I have soon much information available that I should be able to make a perfect replica and from then on perfection = stressed and uncomfortable modelling/ painting/ weathering, etc.
CnC had me confused as hell, my job is running a cnc machine 😅 so I was like wtf..... Whats a machine got to do with anything 😬.
Great video loved it
I'm all for a Tarantino podcast episode or a whole podcast with you 2.
Great stuff guys! Must say that I stopped using the term "brain trust" after seeing the film "O Brother Where Art Thou"
Ive loved every episode youve done so far, for me i like the build the conversions if possible and the finishing processes. I think 30% was a good estimate of what i actually like to do
Comment for the page activity. 👍
“Boost the signal” gets a double dig!!👍🏻😎👍🏻😎
Hey Jon, what is your opinion on any of the McFarlane dragons? I collect them for use in D&D and I think that some of them are amazing. Just wonder your thoughts? Thanks :)
CC = Crowd Control :P
Hugely enjoyed this podcast, it explored a complex idea that had in effect spearheaded the current art movement. I’ve played around with the idea of putting my art up, but my skills are very rudimentary and rough atm. Not much worth showing. So here I am, gobbling up as much advice as possible on TH-cam like a metal leech!
A slight aside that I’ve been wondering on the subject of deep diving into social media, when did it become common practice to call black people, otherwise known as persons of African descent, African Americans? I hear that particular label flung around a lot as if it’s the only acceptable terminology for an individual of that skin tone, yet it assumes they are American, like I’ve even heard it used in contexts to refer to people who have never lived in America. Is there a particular reason why this is the case? I don’t mean to sound ignorant I am just curious,
For the disc, you could use a straw or coffee stirrer to cookie cutter greenstuff
CnC = Comment and/or critics?
Comments & criticism.
Scott you need a joint and you have a 3d printer and you DIDNT use it?! That's exactly what it is perfect for! SMH....
Also great episode!
"the meat is forming in my mouth" *giggles*
Hi,
I was looking for a video where you talked about traveling but since this is this video is from Nov, I though I would ask here about how you transport minis and terrain.
I am not sure how you can reply to me. (or If I will see you have replied)
I really appreciate all of your videos & that you seem to have stayed humble.
I would like to know what you use to transport stuff in? (if you do)
(one of your reviews of warcry was the breaker for me buy into it. I was on the fence of aos or 40k for about 6 months & probably not to buy anything.)
I got into Warcry which comes with some sweet terrain but it is bulky.
(I even planned ahead & left some walls loose as it was sturdy enough to not glue what would have made a "t" tie in piece. It seems to work
still without the glue, it sits there well in the few games I have
played anyways.)
One of the groupies-members just uses a cardboard shoebox for his mini & the corps rack box for the terrain he had.
(the boxes look really beat up so surprised his models aren't crushed and
the terrain still has paint) (i am not making fun of him just an observation)
I am not sure if the others even has his own terrain. but he uses the "official" GW mini cardboard box (also very beat up looking)
I have my dice & cards & bits & minis in a fishing tackle box which works great but no space for the terrain.
My models yet to have paint, the tackle box is great for now. Not sure about after magnets added. (It is cramped & when I magnetize it
will make it hard to remove them from the slot divider.)
The largest problem for travel is the game board at 22'x30" it folds to 11x15.
If it weren't cardboard & I afraid of it getting wet I might just put in a grocery bag.
(I did put it into a backpack once & it started to mess up the corner, from just the one time, so will not use that again.)
I thought a toolbox might work great. (since the tackle box worked great.)
Well I found one at harborfreight!
The map board works as it can mount to the lid. It does hold all the terrain. I just don't have space for the minis.
At this point, I might have to return it to get a cheap storage bin. (the
cheap Rubbermaid/or/Sterilite 30-Quart Ultra Latch Storage Box w/White
Lid and Clear Base)
I really want to have it all in one box. (or more like a "box(s)" in a box, I wanted to have the minis in their own
box/ or at least own compartment )
In case anyone has less stuff, then me it might be worth a look. (I wish I could post a picture
of the toolbox full of my stuff.)
It had the side pre-foamed & even had foamed dividers that promised adjustment
The price was right at $25 on sale & has a shoulder strap and is aluminum.
Here is link www.harborfreight.com/18-in-x-6-in-x-13-in-silver-aluminum-case-69315.html
(and if the link gets killed)
details are:
The brand is: Voyager
18 in. x 6 in. x 13 in. Silver Aluminum Case
SKU(s) 69315, 62272
What's wrong with the evergreen wet palette?
Dmanit, this is what I get for watching this late, but what Scott should use is a hole punch, you can get them in different sizes!
Howdy. I’ve been painting for just over a year now, mostly space wolves at the moment. I gotta say, my least favourite part of painting is the base coat. I don’t have an airbrush and painting that baby blue over and over again by hand is a pain in the arse. I enjoy all the other aspects of it though
Double dragon/battletoads crossover was the best game in the series. Can’t believe Scott isn’t old enough to know the double dragons beat em up games. There was a movie for Christ sake. You guys don’t look apart in age. I wouldn’t have guessed there is an age gap.
The whole social media ruining miniature painting , it is also that way with everything else, gaming used to be more personal, you used to care about the other people in the game as human beings and now so many people disconnect from the others on the other end and can be mean and nasty and not feel guilty or relish in hurting others? and I am sure it is with other avenues as well :( We as people are so into how many like do I have or upset why I have dislikes or rude comments , this is one thing that is leading to suicide and depression in younger and younger kids , that need to be liked by people that don't even matter in their lives :( The more connected over computers and phones we become the worse it has gotten. I will stop now :) great topic btw
That was awesome, guys. Also fuck the begrudgers, Scott! You're a fantastic painter. You're very good too, John :-P
Serious question- What don't you like about the Redgrass Games wet palette? I love mine, but I used to use a wobbly home made one before it so it's been a massive improvement.
I also think that SM's being the forefront of the franchise but the Lore is just amazing. That story sucks you in, if there was better lore it might help bring other aspects of the franchise forward. Also the SMs start out as human, theoretically we all could have possibly become a SM, maybe that's why people are drawn to them.