Don't gaslight the comment stream! Gaslight is a trem used for manipulation. In the film the only thing that's not manipulation is dimming gas lights. But we still use gaslightng to mean manipulation.
@@GummBo3 no doubt... didn't get 'straight to the point' at all. Seems an exercise in demonstrating how analytical & thorough he can be - all foam & no beer. I appreciate what he does, in it's varying topics; however, I find him slightly unlistenable at times. Tries too hard to seem 'scientific'. Be better off wearing a lab coat & just speaking naturally, instead of as if he is answering oral exams for a doctorate panel or some such thing. A little pretentious & contrived, imo.
My theory centers on the conspicuous nature of gaslighting in narcissistic romantic relationships. Often times, the issue is chiefly the gaslighting so it gets all the attention. When gaslighting occurs in a toxic family relationship, it comes in a complex mess of comorbid pathologies and complex dynamics so it tends to take a back seat to more clinical constructs.
I also think that gaslighting behavior (like all human behavior really) is a nuanced spectrum. On one end you have the outlying dehumanizing exploitive behavior of a predatory narcissist and at the other end you have the universal convenient retelling or spin of specific unwanted facts that does undermine people's confidence. So when we talk about gaslighting in the narrow sense we are talking about a pervasive and pathologically manipulating level of behavior that we all engage in to a slight degree on occasion.
@pred ater I believe that these pervasive non-pathological examples in everyday life make it harder for victims of legitimate emotional abuse via gaslighting to see it for what it is. In a culture where perception control and spin is such an everyday part of life, it is harder to identify the more extreme end as abnormal behavior.
My dad used to blame me for things that I didn't do, and sometimes, he even blamed me for things that didn't even happen, but that he completely imagined.
“Gaslighting” mostly worked on me because I looked for validation from others, didn’t have a strong sense of self, and my worldview was “wishy-washy” as in maleable and subject to change. The perfect storm to be convinced down was up, cold was hot, and that I was to blame for all of our problems.
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Hmm something to think about. It's never been suggested to me despite having psych evals over the years. I think it's more C-PTSD from childhood neglect. I'm no longer like this after the rude awakening from being bamboozled by that covert narcissist. So there's a silver lining in all of that horror
My dad and his wife would the same to me. It gets to the point you start thinking you did those things and just can’t recall them. Such a horrible scary thing.
My parents gaslighted me by abusing me and then trying to convince me (and everyone else) that the abuse wasn't really happening and I was just crazy. I suppose you could say my brother was my "gaslight" cause when you ask him what he remembers about our childhood, he remembers the same things I do.
Same with my parents (I've noticed that this is VERY common thing here on post-soviet space) apart from I had nor any siblings, neither anyone else to tell me what my childhood actually looked like. I simply never bought it from the very begining, never doubted that abuse was really going on (of course, I wasn't familiar with terms like "abuse" or "neglect" when I was a child, but it had not prevented me from understanding what is happening). These mudaks ( I'm referring to my *ex-parents* - how do you like the term, btw?) ) have failed in imposing guilt on me and making me feel grateful (yet I can be very loving and empathetic toward other people, so it's not because I became some narcissist or psychopath who's incapable to have such feelings at all).
My parents abused me emotionally and now have forgotten everything. They threatend me and my sister and manipulated us, and now they deny everything. Or change the truth. Thank God I always kept a diary.
My mom gaslighted me and to some extent my dad. Then I had to wake up to reality. My gaslight moment was mainly just others interactions with mom and how they those was awkward. I think my mom has got OCPD and maybe some autism included. Gaslighting became her way to keep her status quo and her way of not being able to get and seek help. Her bubble is way more important than anything else.
My sympathies to all. I've experienced it often throughout my childhood and in recent years from an in law. Interestingly though, once I realized that he, the in law, was doing it, he modified his strategy of manipulation to try to convince everyone in my circle that I was unstable. In an odd sense, I'm grateful for the life experience.
Your teaching style is excellent: highly analytical, serious, most of the time easy to understand, concise, to the point, unpartial, not making fun of anybody or circumstances, but I also love that you are not afraid to state carefully your personal opinion after you have evaluated all the facts. That makes you so personal , reachable and trust worthy! My husband gaslights me at times. He tells me that that I am crazy and stupid when indeed he has a mental disorder and I just have to stand up for myself or I get drawn into his manipulation and power game and blame game, and I refuse. And yes that is exhausting at times. However this life has a purpose and if we respect and follow the golden rule we might influence a person/ situation positively and make this world a little bit a better place. Thank you so much Dr Grande for your excellent teaching style!
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
@@gonzalez6073 Well commented Mr Gonzalez, thank you! My major weapon is my faith and my experience and my commitment to truth. It took me a little while to understand this evil manipulation game, however, I like to go into detail of behavior and I do not give up so quickly. I believe in the power of God and that He has given me a mind that I need to use and also that I need to control my emotions; and that man/woman can change, but not everybody wants to change for the better - right? Truth can be found out, understood, learned. Isn't it 'crazy' so much effort is wasted in wanting to possess the power and control? Isn't is so much nicer and relaxing if people try to understand each other and get somewhat along with each other? Respect and love each other??? Why always this power game? Understanding and confronting negative human nature/ behavior is not always an easy thing. I have learned to stand up to the manipulation game, it took me quite a while, and the truth and love of Christ is my weapon. Actually I almost feel sorry for my manipulator who has not yet fully understood (because also some Christians can be great manipulators) that if we decide to accept it: we are loved by Christ unconditionally in a such perfect way that nobody can love; that knowledge gives me the strength to fight the good fight. Not to forget the internal peace that I receive from the love of Christ that no twisted yoga position can bring! Seriously :) BTW in yoga you empty your mind, and in the end-stage demons move in. That is certainly not a desirable thing! Some things are just hard to express. I admire Dr. Grande how well he expresses the most difficult scenarios, he never gets anything mixed up :) and I also love his sense of justice and it is so cute how he treats his plants:) I am a nature lover , so I really can relate to that!
Thanks for covering this topic. I'm a victim of a stalker trying to gaslight me in the classical sense. Breaking in and entering non forced entry, moving and changing things in my home, swapping items and stealing. He has made it difficult to prove to others that this is happening to me. So not only does the gaslighter try to get the victim to question her own judgement, but also gets others to question the judgement of the victim. At least that is how it has been in my case. It is a horrific thing to go though.
Between researching and a friend that was married to covert about her gaslighting experience I was ready when my ex covert narc husband pulled this on me. He hid 3 personal items from me within a week. I assumed they were in his truck because he would hide both sets of keys. I approached him after the 3rd item went missing. I told him I knew what he did and even explained to him why he was doing this and the concept. I let that sink in for a bit then told him I was going grocery shopping and when I returned my items better be in their proper places or 2 can play that games. (I actually had no intention of doing anything) I just wanted my items back. When I returned home disappeared items reappeared. Imagine that. That was the first and time he pulled this stunt. I knew at that point I had to start planning on how I was going to leave. I finally left after some time and filed for divorce. These creatures are sick and twisted, I refused to let him accomplish his goal of driving me crazy. What he did to me was exactly what his father did to his mother, except for the fact that his mother had to go to a mental institution several times before she passed away. All this just blows my mind, they are pure evil. Thank you!
It's terrible to think that people who are vulnerable to manipulation, through being exposed to it through family, can grow up to be manipulated by a partner. Its almost like a mental weakness that makes the person doubt they're own ability to recollect things accurately. You don't trust your own memory or sanity.
My ex husband did the same exact thing!!! I ended up having a nervous break down bc of it. Diabolical creatures they are. I’m glad you were able to get out. And good for you for standing up for yourself.
In the 1944 movie there actually _is_ an element of manipulation concerning the flickering gaslight, if only after the fact. Gas is decreased in the downstairs lights every time the evil husband turns on the attic light in search of the hidden jewels. While he doesn't argue with his wife when she brings up the subject of the lights, he does manipulate her by insisting that she's imagining things. Hence the film's title.
Thank you for the backstory. I knew only of the movie, but not of the play or original book. Thank you also for staying on-topic and being so concise. I love your style of delivery and I would think that (particularly after psychological and emotional abuse) your direct communication, without self-indulgent, nonessential fluff mixed in, would be a relief for many. I prefer direct communication at all times but particularly when exhausted and struggling in a situation where understanding is very important, I sincerely appreciate truncated and clear speech. Like Joe Friday, “All we want are the facts.” :-)
I was once told I have a vivid imagination after I was robbed by an employee of a business I was at. Fortunately for me there were cameras, in color that showed the crime and the owner fired the employee. The owner never apologized to me for asserting that I had a vivid imagination. No wonder our society is all lawyered up. It did feel good to teach that business a lesson.
In my experience, the predatory people that use this form of manipulation actively seek third parties to support their divisive cause and even make the supporting parties look like the culprit. I've heard these henchmen described as "flying monkeys" and are utilized to carry out the violation instigated by the person doing the gaslighting. Unfortunately, the damage caused by gaslighting can be immeasurable.
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Yes there is something people call gangstalking, cause stalking, organized harassment and many other things. Really it's just a coordinated method of gaslighting someone by a group, Dr. Todd said this is entirely delusional in another video Im a little confused Doctor.
There is a difference between bullshitting and gaslighting. Gaslighting makes you doubt your OWN memories or even your own sanity, i.e. a parent or other family member insists "such and such" never happened and that your memory/sense of reality is faulty (even though they know it DID happen and it is documented, they want to convince you otherwise).
Gaslighting is bullshitting that requires abandoning one's confidence in one's own perception of reality in order to be believed. You can fall for someone's bullshit on a topic, and still feel perfectly capable of going about your life. With gaslighting, you're left debilitated.
@@PrezVeto Gaslighting often involves someone you really trust (like your mother, a sibling, spouse). You don't believe they would lie to you (or don't want to believe it) which is what makes you doubt yourself.
You're over simplifying the concept. Bullshit is when you're around a bunch of friends, and then one of them shows up no clothes on and everyone tells him hes looking great! Gaslighting is telling your Wife that shes just imagining that you're seeing another woman, her actually seeing you, hearing you talking to her, reading text, and listening to voice mail from her. That's Gaslighting.
There is actually a large difference here: the philosophy of the nature of bullshit, as distinct from lying, should make this clear (I have had a strong interest in this, and have written separately on this suggesting an epistemolgically-based methodological solution to the Franklin-Cohen debate). You could think of gaslighting as lying with a particularly abusive goal; I think gaslighting might be better quasi-legally called Aggrevated Lying With Intent (aggrevated means circumstances beyond the basic requirement of a crime that increase guilt, and the intent is to cause psychological harm).
Dr. Grande, thank you for making this video! As someone who experienced this phenomenon in its literal sense by a former spouse, the term has special significance. In many ways my experience played out just like the movie (which I had not seen and was unfamiliar with the term at the time). My ex would often hide and discard items, and when I would be away from the house he would "re-organize" my personal belongings, often scattering them in places that would be totally inappropriate (e.g. putting items from my car in a box on a bookshelf on the 2nd floor of my home). During the time, I was so confused, and was experiencing so much cognative dissonnace, isolation, and so much psychological abuse that I never assumed he was doing this. Nor, did I even know this was a "thing". Nobody ever would logically or rationally think that their spouse or any person for that matter was engaging in such activities because it is so bizarre! This behavior was also part of a coordinated "smear campaign," which ultimately led to 4 attemps by family and a neighbor/friend to mentally institutionalize me. I'll state for the record, I have never been diagnosed with any mental condition other than CPTSD, and never has a mental health professional determined that I've ever had a break with reality. I have spoken to a number of people who have experienced psychological abuse by a known or presumed psychopath/narcissist, as well as clinicians about my experience. All of my experiences with the exception of this have been validated by others. However, to date, nobody I have spoken with or consulted with has actually witnessed this behavior. I'm very interested to know how often this actually happens (e.g. the overtly coordinated campaign, over a long period of time). You also state it's seen by psychopaths and narcissicists but that diagnosis does not have to be present for someone to do this. However, to me, it seems that only an extremely manipulative and disordered person would engage in the kind of campaign demonstrated in the movie (and that I also experienced). Many doubt my experience, including those familiar with highly manipulative behaviors. It seems that there would be a distinction between someone "gaslighting" on a one-off basis, and those who engage in this tactic as part of a broader series of activities over time. Are you able to expand on that and what that may mean? If you could illuminate (no pun intended!) more on this behavior, including its clinical references, I am very eager to learn more. One of the mose helpful things for me has been to objectively understand my experiences because I have almost no external validation. Everything I've seen and read on gaslighting never actually cites the actual manipulation of one's environment. I've also heard the term "ambient abuse". Is this a clinical term and is this associated with glaslighting (because it sounds like it would be). I'm sure there are other clinicians and targets/victims who have witnessed/experienced this, but since there is little out there on the topic, having access to a larger body of knowledge would be very helpful. I love your content and more video content on this particular topic I feel would be highly beneficial to the collective conscious on this matter.
My mother is a gaslighter and she's also a narcissist. I've had to cut off my family for years unfortunately but my life has exponentially improved since excising myself from them.
I learnt years ago, for the sake of my sanity, I had to disown my mother and siblings. It's a decision I wished I made as a teenager but my self esteem was non existent then, because they are such arseholes-and they never ever changed.
Forgive me for not using big words like you or your guests. All I know about "gaslighting" is what it felt like to be the victim of it from a narcissistic/psycho/manipulative/lying/predator....a/k/a Ass Face.lol In 1 year of dating him, it took me years and years to undo the damage. He destroyed my self confidence, made me full of anxiety and yes gaslighting is a perfect name for it. I could feel and see the gaslight within myself flickering. My internal flame was dying as he gained more control and that flicker made me pull away to save my self. Thank you for your amazing videos that help.
Excellent explanation. This term is so popular on TH-cam and I even had patients using it. It bothered me that I couldn’t get a good handle on the meaning. Thx now I get the connection to the movie.
Same. First time I heard it was from a person I share a bloodline with. I was like I don't get it. She keep saying it and had her boyfriend say it to me.
An example of gas lighting that happened to me. I asked my then bf to do the dishes and went grocery shopping. Come home a few hours later and the dishes aren't don't. I get angry and ask why they haven't been done and bf claims I never asked him to do them and insists I'm not remembering correctly. I believe him but then he keeps doing this, saying I don't remember things I have asked him to do or things I have done (like saying I broke a plate he actually broke) and I start feeling crazy and like I'm losing my memory or something. Start recording conversations and yeah, he was lying the entire time to get out of doing chores or taking any responsibility for anything.
My husband would call me from work and ask me to find a certain tool he'd forgotten, could I find it and have it ready when he came to pick it up. At that point I had no idea what I was dealing with. I just knew that I needed to find the tool, find the tool, find the tool...He always had it with him. Talk about hyperviligance. These memories embarres me and make me cry. Gaslighting/manipulation/brainwashing whatever you call it, works.
Yes the gaslight WAS part of the manipulation, she saw it flickering/dimming and the husband told her she was just imagining it which was one more thing that made her doubt her sanity. The husband didn't dim the lights intentionally, but he made her doubt that it was happening.
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Thanks for this video. You're perfectly right, weakening of the gaslight is the clue that shows someone is using the gas elsewhere, the clue that indicates she's not crazy!
Yeah my mom Gaslit me while I was growing up, amongst many other horrible & manipulative things. Somehow I managed to not fall for the gaslighting, I trusted myself enough to know she was lying and playing games.
I had a foster child who was gaslighted by his family into believing he was autistic. Once we got him away from the family and to an actual counselor- he discovered he was normal- but abused. Not autistic. Did very well away from familiy, grades skyrocketed, got meaningful work, made tons of friends. But he decided to go back to the people who were gaslighting him for a visit and never returned. They convinced him we had taken him to quack and got him back on ssi and they were cashing his checks and medicating him. Until I met and saw him I never actually knew this was possible. I was also shocked to learn that for many like him they dont actually see Doctors but rather mental health case workers, who submit his paperwork to the doctors and they get rubberstamped. This was in Orlando, FL
Actually, in the movie at least, he triangulates her with the maid. She does express her observations about the gaslights a few times and is denied. I know at least once, but I think twice, when the maid tells her she didn't notice. The husband also convinces the maid the wife is unwell so she just thinks the wife is being very neurotic when asking about the lights. But the maid is young and likely didn't notice. I believe the husband also dismisses her concerns about the light, knowing full well she did see that. In the end, it is the gaslights that have her ready to commit herself, but it is also the lights that exxonerate her, when the investigator notices and points out the dimming of the lights, which by this point she just ignores it thinking it isn't real
I really appreciate Dr. Grande's clarity and precision about terms. His presentation allows the viewer to identify and understand gaslighting, without being confused if the person who is gaslighting them does not appear to be narcissistic or psychopathic. As Mike Baker, in his comments points out, gaslighting can come as garden-variety family dynamics. I really appreciate Dr. Grande's insight that gaslighting, rather than being the ploy that deceives you, can be the clue which allows you to escape from the deception.
Hi Dr. Grande - just watched this video and wanted to add something here. The original film based on the play is a British thriller called "Gaslight", and was made in 1940. The 1944 film was an MGM adaptation. I recommend watching the 1940 British film, it does show why the term "gas-lighting" came about. The husband really does manipulate the wife into thinking she is going insane and imagining things. He reminds me a bit of my ex :-)
Good and necessary advice for anyone experiencing this. I should say that it's been a very long time since I've seen the movie...and I'm personally not confused by the fact that the dimming lights weren't a manipulation tactic in the movie.... I just tend to use the word and understand it's common usage as a kind of covert, subtle, cognitive manipulation, intended to screw with one's perceptions (for any number of different reasons) I also occasionally use it to describe my own cognitive dissonance in situations where I'm picking up on subtle cues from a person who is not acknowledging any validity to my feeling. I realize that not everyone has to share every little detail about what's going on with them, but because this can have the same result as intentional gaslighting, I feel it's important for such a person to at least have the sensitivity to acknowledge that, yes, we may be "picking up on" something, but that "something" is not something they care to discuss right now......rather than denying it's existence which can cause us all to start distrusting our gut and intuition....and lead to all kinds of issues
Electrical illumination and gas illumination coexisted for a brief period in the very early 20th century. My great grandfather was a noted architect in New York in the early 20th century. In the house he built for himself and his family in Flushing, Queens, New York in 1900, at that time he did not immediately assume that the new 'electricity' would succeed, so he built his new house on Barkley Ave with dual fuel capability - bare wires wrapped around porcaline insulators and gas/electric lamps. The house lasted more than a hundred years, but not the inhabitants.
Thank you Dr. Grande. For over 40 years my husband would contradict casual statements I made in the company of his law school friends without any explanation. It was embarrassing because he did it in a way that was quick and final which was code to his friends his wife didn’t know what she was talking about, crazy or stupid. It was awkward. Everyone went silent for a minute or so. Then, a few years later, he would bring up the very same topic to someone else in the family and state exactly what was said by me years ago in front of his friends. When I called him out on it, he said he didn’t remember. Awful! I’ve been with him for 41 years and I now know what, not why, he has been doing. It’s a very destructive behavior and one should get out of that relationship asap. Unfortunately for me, it’s too late.
I think we call it "Gaslighting" just because the movie is called Gaslight. It's an obviously (in its time) pop culture reference. Just like movie names and references happen in everyday conversations today.
Agreed. Dr. Grande details things correctly with the term, but the other youtubes use the term to shortcut to a phenomenon which appears to be common especially from those with NPD.
@@kathaa-b6972 Stan comes from an Eminem song. Though, in that case "Stan" was meant to be negative. The character's name basically combines the word "stalker" and "fan". Don't know how or why the term because positive but when it was first used, it was used negatively like the original song.
I am a victim of gaslighting from a very large religious cult I was a part of. The effects were not only damaging to me but also to many other members of the Mormon church who start to see contradicting evidence and are made by members and leaders to feel crazy and evil. I feel that gaslighting in group form is a lot more common than realized when one considers this context. I sincerely wish there was more research done in this field. The phenomenon is interesting because the members guilty of the gaslighting are not fully intentionally doing it. In one sense they are intentional (willful ignorance) but in another they aren’t and this occurs because of Doublethink (a term made popular by Orwell’s 1984) in which they simultaneously believe two contradicting narratives at once. Doublethink is like a cousin of gaslighting. It somehow fuels it. It is highly damaging and deserves more attention. Thanks for covering this term Dr Grande!
This is brilliant !! I was thinking the other day, why is gas-lighting so named because they didn't seem to fit the description of making a person think they're insane. My sisters, who are narcissists, explained to me that my ex was gaslighting. They of all people told me that he wanted me to think I'm crazy. I appreciate them for it Thank you for the correct explanation. I will share this video with myself and others, I'm already a subscriber and I know why.
Forgive my doubts, but could it possibly be that it was your sisters' projection? Of course, I don' have any info about your ex and your relationship so I'm not pretending to know better. But what bothers me is the fact that modern pop-psychology is pushing " _if you _*_FEEL_*_ there's something's wrong - leave!_ " narrative - especially to women. I fell pray to such an attitude myself. I had a girlfriend (who I still love and care for) with BPD, and when end up in a situation that hurt us both our mutual "friend" convinced her (she is highly suggestible) that I'm some kind of abuser. My attempts to give the other side of the story, to present my point of view were completely dismissed and labeled as gaslighting (although I've never said anything like "don't listen to her, she's insane and got it all wrong" or some milder equivalent of this). Which was rather easy to do cause I expected our "friend" to help us sort this all out, so I was in a total shock (I also had severe physical symptoms because of that - which were probably considered fake) when the "friend" immediately started to blame me for all kind of things and turned the talk into an interrogation of me. So labeling someone as a gaslighter might happen to be an act of gaslighting itself. The reason why your comment reminded me of my story is that this "friend" of ours has rather strong narcissistic traits (and probably some sociopathic too) as well as your sisters.
Btw, when I shared this story with others (mostly females), first reaction of some was "If things went that way it should be for a reason" (implication was it's probably all my fault, i.e. they gaslighted me). Then (even before I could finish) they could demand a solid proof that I'm not an abuser. Until then they will think otherwise... I was considered guilty until prove innocent, in other words. Note that these were folks to whom I turned to in order to find support (and maybe some advice on how I could restore our relationship) - and I told them so. They pretended to be willing to support me. (Just in case: none of them knew Her. And I didn't even ever gave as little as her name to anyone. So it was nothing like some campaign against her. ... One can see what I do expect after such a "support"...)
I saw the movie a long time ago, and I do remember that her problems started when the lights would deem around 4:00 p.m., and she told the maid, and the maid would say she didn't notice anything. The following day, the wife would notice again and the maid would deny she noticed. When her husband arrived she told him, he asks the maid and the maid denies noticing it again. The wife would also hear noises coming from upstairs and the maid would deny hearing them. I remember this clearly, although I don't remember the hidden items, but it looks like we gave more importance to different things. Even I was doubting if the deemed lights and the noises were in her head or not. The deeming of the lights is what would make her ware that something was happening and scare her, and the noises would tell her it was upstairs. So everything he did afterwards was to make her think she was going crazy, and he did use the maid to back him up to be more convincing. SPOILER ALERT: At the end, it turns out the maid was in corrupts with the husband.
The actual name of the play is "Angel Street" subtitled Gaslight. I know,I was in the play and played the detective that helped the woman figure out her husband was an imposter and murderer. The gaslight device was incidental to the plot and it's resolution.
I love the way you explain things. Strait to the point, easy to understand, and just as Ann P Tully said, you don't waffle. I have 30 years experience in the medical field and know just enough to get myself into trouble ;). I love the mental health field and have worked mostly in the substance abuse mental health as a "teacher/listener" I don't have a degree of any kind, but I have a hell of a lot of experience. And I'm 24 years clean of crack cocaine last Cinco de Mayo. Thank you for doing these videos. I enjoy them immensely.
I have some sort of mental illness which various therapists and psychiatrists have called different things. Most recently it has been called Aspergers Syndrome or Reactive Attachment Disorder. I fully recognize that I am not a normal person, although I have been taking steps to fit in with society better. That being said, as my family members have passed away I have come to realize that they have been falsely attributing symptoms to me and dehumanizing me for percieved differences, even when I am engaging in innocuous behavior. At the moment, my only surviving relatives are my sister and two underage nephews, who I live with due to financial issues. Now that it's just her carrying on this behavior, when she does these things it's clearly a nonsequitor. For instance before heading off to work one day, I went out to check something on my bike before work and came back in to grab my bag. The minute I stepped through the door she said in an incredibly overdramatic voice, "What's going on? I don't understand what's going on! You're scaring me!" Mind you, all I did was walk through the door. I didn't interact with her or anything in the room. I was just walking back to my room to grab my bag. She uses those phrases, "I don't know what's going on," and "you're scaring me," all the time, when I'm just trying to use the microwave in the kitchen or something. At the same time, she complains that I never really leave my room. Why would I want to leave my room when doing something like making a microwave dinner leads to me being treated that way? Another behavior my family used to engage in (and she still does) is to shoot down anything I say and dismiss me because I'm weird or mentally ill. Okay, I know I'm different, but I'm not psychotic and I can have opinions and know facts. Why the hell does being weird mean I'm wrong to say I want to buy a certain vehicle because it has good gas mileage? This whole thing just weighs really heavily on me because I'm dependent on my sister, I'm 30 and have no prospects due to mental illness, I have no support network because of whatever it is that really is wrong with me, and I see her starting to do the same thing to my older autistic nephew. Sorry for the rant, I just really needed to put this down somewhere someone might read it, even if it will make no difference.
My heart goes out to you!! Your situation is truly heart breaking!!! At times like this, when I feel there's no solution or resolve I turn to Ho'oponopono by the late Dr Hew Len. You ll find it on youtube. Give it a try, although at first you'll probably say 'no way!!' You see life is a dramatic play and we each have our roles. May you find resolve and may peace reign in your household 🙏
You mention that gaslighting is mostly done by a man to a woman. How about a (narcissist) mother to a (scapegoat) daughter? I see that others have asked a similar question...would love to hear your take on: - that particular relationship dynamic -the psychological mechanisms behind the gaslighting behavior. What are the common origins? How does shame play a part? Can the narcissist change? Can disconnection be a healthy option? -what the adult daughter can do, once empowered by this understanding, to move to the next point along the continuum of recovery. To your point about how it's important to have multiple sources of information: this is why TH-cam and online communities are so important. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I am interested as well. My mother always denied a certain thing happened but my uncle eventually confirmed it did happen. It made me feel crazy for decades until my uncle told me what actually happened.
Hi Dr. Grande. I found your channel today and I wanted to thank you for your elaborate explanation and information about this topic. In my life experiences, this has been the most profound view and perspective that has brought a level of techniques and awareness for me. Thank You!~ Many Blessings ...
Mine was a BPD female. She Gaslighted me. I had a strong sense of self so ignored it. How much was deliberate, and how much was dissociation? I was more upset that she used the false narrative to smear me with her Flying Monkeys. If you have a strong self image, that can be hurtful. At the time I did not know of Cluster B Disorders, NPD or BPD, so it was particularly hurtful. Today I would ignore it; but today I would never be in that situation again. I can spot a Cluster B a mile away (even the coverts given time).
Through my life experience with them, the red flags have become glaringly evident. Throughout my life, my naivete allowed me to ignore them. Now, I can usually spot problems on the horizon..... usually.
When I started to date my now estranged wife she told me she was sexually abused by a close family member when she was 10 years old. Some 30 years later when we were going through a rough time and the sexual abuse subject came up again , she told me that I had made all that up & that conversation had never happened. I went through a horrible few months after that thinking I was going insane. Only then for her to change her story again to her admitting she did tell me she was sexually abused but she was just naive and the correct story is that the abuser had just put his arm around her whilst they sat on the sofa. Suffice to say she lives some 30 miles away from me now & I'm having some much needed therapy.
One minor form of gas-lighting is when you're given erroneous instructions by a third party which you carry-out, you get blamed for the error, you explain to your supervisor that you are not at fault, but your supervisor deflects to a different issue instead of understanding that you were not the one who created the erroneous instructions. The supervisor feels defensive enough to feel the need to deflect, not recognizing that it is not the supervisor's fault either. This reaction suggests to me that the supervisor may be a victim of narcissism. is this a possibility?
The huge problem with gaslight is that it's difficult to see if the person is Lying to " gaslight" or not. If you are a really smart person with strong toughts and self esteem it's easy... expecially if the person trying to gaslight has a lot lower mental I.Q.
you're right and yes most of the time they are lieing in my experience. I was in a relationship with someone who tried this crap on me but we weren't in a relationship long enough for the other to have any effect. at first I thought the person was taking too much of their medication for chronic pain but once I explained what was going on to a friend and he told me that the person was trying to gaslight me. so after that all gaslighting attempts were met with a middle finger, me calling the other a crazy junkie, then eventually I left and never seen that demon again.
Been a victim and never again going to trust myself even if I am wrong. I was able to keep a grip for seven years. People pick personal boundaries and stick with it and you will be free
That is a good way to describe it. My brother has paranoid schizophrenia and unfortunately thinks we're all out to get him half the time, though he's been better lately.
In my case it’s 2 on 1, my parents gaslight me all the time. I tried to call out my dad on the behavior and he said “If you bring up that ‘gaslighting’ bullshit again I’m kicking you out.” And of course he’d deny having ever said THAT. And my parents said “You keep using silly words like ‘gaslighting’ and ‘abuse’ and ‘trigger’” after I mentioned my friend’s abusive mom. Like no those words aren’t silly, they’re fucking serious. I recently gotten back in touch with my grandpa after my mom keeping my brother and I from him for years. And when I told him my parents were “mistreating me” he shook his head and said “I saw it coming... ever since you were a baby...” and so I revealed more details and he brought up his experiences and for the first time I had a family member I could trust, a family member I could tell the truth to. For the first time it wasn’t just me. I knew that it wasn’t all in my head.
Very good, Dr Grande. I'm pleased to see a trained professional talk about this and explain that it's not talked about scientifically using that specific term but is referred to by different names. I also like how you made the point of the video to echo the play and movie, in that the gaslighting can be used to give you clues as to what's going on, and lead you to freedom. Leading on from your advice at the end about making sure you stay open to other sources of information in order to make a balanced assessment of what's really happening, this would be why the gaslighter often "triangulates" his/her victim, so that there are fewer sources of information available. Really nice video; thank you.
Lisa Cherry Beaumont, other sources of information, yes, and also reminding ourselves that we ourselves are consistent and reliable sources of information if we are in a balanced state. I find it very easy to differentiate truth from lie just by asking myself if I’m being reasonable and following that through process through. Being manipulated into thinking that a very unreasonable situation is, in fact, reasonable is complete and utter BS. We need to remember how to listen to and use the minds and instinct that God has given us. Turns out we needn’t be victims beyond childhood!
Holly + That triangulation that LCB mentions is just one of the many ways that manipulative people use to keep us in an "unbalanced" state. It's not until we understand this that we can even begin to take more control and responsibility for our own state....and this understanding has to come from somewhere. Unfortunately, so many "victims" perceptions of themselves become so skewed due to the manipulation tactics of these people that it can take something like a miracle or a very "lucky break" (such as the noticing of the dimming gaslights in the movie) before they can even begin to untangle it all. So, while I agree that "ultimately" we need not be victims beyond childhood....I would also say that until we have some kind of "lucky break" that helps us see the truth of the situation, many, many people....far beyond childhood...remain "blind-folded" in sense....and thus, don't have the tools to access the insight that's needed to break free from their conditioning. Thanks to so much info out on the internet now, these "lucky breaks" and the ability to gain insight may be getting easier/more likely to occur. For me that "lucky break" was an article on Oprah's website 10+ years ago that got my own ball rolling (around the age of 40ish) until then, I wouldn't have even had a "search term" or "thread" to follow. Kudos to Dr. Grande and many others on the web who are so soooo helpful in this way.
Narcissists from dysfunctional families are good for gas lighting. They try to make the designated scapegoat think and feel that they are bad and there's something wrong with them. When in fact, the scapegoat does at times, turn out to be the most accomplished member. As long as they don't allow the narc's get to them. I'd like to see Dr. Grade's take on Candice De Long. She's the criminal profiler and has a show on Deadly women. Great show too btw.
I'd never heard of this term until The Young and the Restless did a storyline where Adam was doing this to Ashley, which was pretty horrible. Ever since then I've seen it pop up all over the place. Great explanation!
I think the gaslight is really symbolic for the key to realizing the deceptive, psychological games being played. it's like the evidence of ill intent. it is a bit weird the way it turned into a term but it actually works for me if you consider that using it is essentially based on someone believing they have discovered an empowering truth.
I have seen a lot of people using this term in recent years. In one case, I believe this was properly used. A narcissistic (clinically diagnosed) man "gaslit" his current wife by years and years of lying and manipulation of his wife, who had Bipolar Disorder. She was submissive, dismissed, and emotionally and financially dependent on him. She was convinced she couldn't be trusted with her own care, the care of their child and was never even allowed to have money. Also convinced she was chronic, a danger to herself and could never even dream of getting better so accepted his opinion. After 15 years, she went under the care of a really good therapist and eventually worked her way through it and divorced him and is on her way to recovery of self. And it is an uphill battle. But with that said, I have heard it used when people talk about anyone who is lying and being manipulate. I get why they use it, but the "victim" here isn't buying into it so they aren't really being gaslit and to me, undermines the tragedy of people who do have their metal state manipulated and even altered by other people. Not that these peope aren't suffering, but I guess I'm saying it as a "sorta" syllogism. 1. All lions are carnivores. 2. Not all antelope are killed and eaten by carnivores. 3. Therefore not all lions kill antelope. I think this is a syllogism for: 1. All "gaslighters" are manipulative, liars (by distortion, outright lying, or omission) and want their "victim" to be altered to their ideal state. 2. Not all people who are lied to and manipulated have been gaslight. 3. Therefore, not all people who lie, manipulate, etc are gaslighting. I think that is right but I haven't had my coffee. Great video. Again Dr. Grande. Thank you.
Grande, got it mostly wrong this time. The term gaslighting applies to anyone trying to manipulate someone else by changing the facts of reality. This might be merely minimizing abuse toward the victim, or challenging the victims perception of the facts to the advantage of the abuser. The reason narcissism is so often involved is the lack of empathy and remorse of the perpetrator. Narcissist, are so self centered they have little regard for the damage they do to others who are affected by gaslighting.
My mom gaslights me and even though I meant no harm, and I was just being human, I always apologize and feel immense guilt for the bad intentions she gives me. I love her a lot and she's usually a kind person, but sometimes little things and mistakes I make trigger her anger and if I try to explain myself it gets a lot worse. I hate confrontation and I really try to be a good person but she makes me feel like a horrible person at times. Example: I answer her question casually but she gets offended, and I say "I didn't mean to upset you I was answering the question." She will say "You WERE NOT answering a question." And then I ruminate and go over the situation over and over to try and figure out what my own intentions were, when really, it's not that deep. But then I don't know how to resolve the situation without apologizing profusely.
Gaslighting is an incedibly cowardly thing to do to a human being, and anyone involved in it and all its insipidly vicious aspects, should be tried convicted and put behind bars. That is if they survive their opioid addiction. Both activities are closely related and I can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt...Any District Attorney's interested ?
What’s the difference between gaslighting and being told that walking on water, changing water into wine, healing the blind, and resurrection from the dead are real and true and must be believed and if you reject them as real, true, and believable then you’re sick? Gaslighting and religion are one and the same.
I worked with a guy who, if he turned up late, would insist he had been there but it was me that came late or just didn’t notice him. And whilst he was telling me this would stare me straight in the eye ! Effin spooky behaviour.
His "skills", if controllable by him, would make a great undercover cop. That's why cops can LIE and perjure themselves. What amazes me is the executives that DON'T SEE IT, and it's right in front of them. I actually had a President of a company explain it: He had married his HS sweetheart, gone into admin. immediately after junior college, and had never been on a job site with "street people", criminals, mentally unstable, and druggies. He "just didn't see it". It wasn't a part of his lifestyle, yet we were the same age.
My husband interrupts me by angrily saying "NO!" whenever I begin speaking, especially in public. He doesn't even realize he's doing it. I have been the fundraiser for his nonprofit organization for over 10 years. When he interrupts me in front of potential donors by loudly saying no, right when I am describing his program, I believe it makes the potential donor feel distrust of me, the person who has signed that all funds will be used in the proper way. He always does it in front of his family and in front of donors. Needless to say, the relationship he and I have with his family is horrible and his program suffers from a lack of funds.
Fascinating.... thank you for tracing this term back to its original sources, given this new information, gaslighting could be considered more akin to triangulation than suggestion or brainwashing.
The examples from the gaslight story are so reminiscent of my own experience. The hardest part about being with someone who is truly psychopathic or NPD is they isolate you before any of it starts. I wasn't allowed to have friends and was distanced from my family for nearly ten years while I was with someone who, I believe, to have NPD. After they separate you, the build you up and let you know the reason you needed to get away from all those other people is because they didn't appreciate you or they're bad people and only they can truly love and care for you. Once they build you up and show you they are truly the only person that is trustworthy and safe that's when the worst of their nature comes out. That's when they have you.
I never heard of this term when I was growing up. It seems like a type of bullying or abusive pattern from one person to another person ...It can be done by group of people too. And people can do it through social networking also. Do I have this correct? I guess the worst part of it, the victim cannot fight back or defend himself/herself. And it is tough to prove the pattern of abuse (gaslighting) from a group who may be doing it ...if you can, would you be able to actually report it as a crime?
Thank you for the explanation, very interesting. Just a thought perhaps the scientific literature should adopt the term ''gaslighting' since it seems a good term to conceptualise ''inter-personal manipulation'' which is a bit of a mouthful.
2:34 you use the word I was looking for: " invalidate". Isn't gaslighting really an over-romanticized synonym for invalidation? I know someone with serious mental problems that were allegedly triggered by a lifetime of systematic invalidation by an adoptive parent.
What to do if my boyfriend kept on saying that i didnt talk to him about "the subject"... but i was pretty sure 100% that spoke to him about "the subject" ... then he's sure of himself about it.. and kept on arguing....but i remember that i had spoken to him about it and he denies it.... so now im not sure of whatever i say because it happens so many times.. why would i come up with something not even a big deal? 🤔 yes im pregnant , admit that im forgetful about whatever people talk to me about but i know what i said.. 😅 then i came up with a story "fake"cuz ive had enough.... then i told him that he didnt even response at my question earlyer... and he told me that he did.. he did say it.. omg i was shoook... i told him that there were never a question and i made that up... then he told me that was true he answer the question.. he remembered.. so.. i dont know what to think about this anymore.. 😪
9:28 You contradicted your self here. A normal person would not engage with real "gaslighting", because like you said gaslighting is a long term behavior. If you play tricks on a person a time or two is that also considered gas lighting?. NORMAL PEOPLE don't engage in real gas lighting because there is nothing to gain from it. Its long term and very time consuming, Maybe its called something else. Only people who who have there disorders and the people who they use to carry them out is engaged in "gaslighting".
What bothers me the most is how frequently people use this term wrong to describe regular differences of opinions or critiques of perception/opinion between people who do not have a longer/familial/intimate relationship. Gaslighting refers to a person/people in a position of trust who knowingly set out to decieve and invalidate someone's senss of being in touch with reality. It does not refer to some random person on the internet telling you your personal woo or paranormal experience has no credibility, nor does it refer to things like men and women generally having a different perception of a political climate or gender-role pressures etc. Gaslighting is now so frequently use to tar people as a debate tactic that, ironically, by that loose and silly usage the people who use it could themselves be argued to be gasslighting. /facepalm
The dimming of the gaslight IS discussed in the movie. She asks why this is happening and he denies that it's happening at all. She hears noises in the attic (when he's searching for the jewels) and asks about them, and denies that they're happening at all. As I remember, he also gets the young female maid (Angela Lansbury) in on his plot, so she too denies these things are happening. So in order to cover up his activities which his wife is hearing and seeing, he escalates his "gaslighting" of her to convince her that she only thinks these things are happening because she's crazy.
An issue with gaslighting (or the perception of it) is that it can be associated with other personality disorders apart from the narcissistic ones. Having worked with a psychologist who displayed symptoms of OCPD/SchizotypalPD was akin to being gaslighted. Simply for the fact her interpretation of factual events differed so strongly from what actually occurred. Coupled with her insistence that she was "entitled" to her bizarre interpretation of events created a very risky clinical environment to work in.
While the "gaslight" in the context of the original play and movie might have served as the signal to the wife that she was being lied to rather than the manipulation itself, the connotative meanings of the words "gas" and "light" when put together are so powerful for describing this form of manipulation that it was probably inevitable that the word "gaslight" would end up referring to the manipulation itself. "Light" has connotations of things like "signal" or "truth," "understanding." "Gas" has connotations of "tenuous," "fake," "obscuring," "smells bad." So when you put these connotative meanings together you have a very powerful term for describing a bold fake truth.
Yes, after seeing what he was really doing to me. It pushed me away and changed how I saw him. I’ve never experienced anything like it. It’s frightening.
I'm sharing this video on major TH-cam channels about the Trucker revolt in Canada and Trudeau's response... even though gaslighting didn't start out as a large dishonesty onto multiple people, it has become so in our world...so true the way to not be a "gaslighting" victim is to stay connected to multiple sources for the truth....
Dr, you are so understandable. Ive heard this term before but didnt knw what it was. I have a better understanding now. But to hear you speak is a plus.. Is it gaslighting if an ex acts kind for 3 minutes then starts yelling and cursing, accusing you of cheating in really immoral and disgusting ways?? Or is that more of a bipolar disorder?
4:30 people put on performances of old plays all the time. There are even Tony Awards specifically for "revivals" of plays, meaning not a new play but an old play re-mounted on Broadway.
My mentor advised me to always keep talking to your political opponents and never close off alternate sources of information. Gaslighters often spin stories of character assassination to the people around you, and make sure they commit to never checking the "facts" as offered by the gaslighter, effectively isolating you. The only way around it is to keep communication wide open, even if you don't like the family member!!
I' m living as a foreigner in Ireland and have heard this word often and felt like: Okay , what about are you speaking? Thanks for this information, this makes it all clear.
I wonder if this is considered a form of gaslighting (or manipulation). My ex- husband was emotionally abusive. He was also an alcoholic. At one time, we had a rather large group of friends and acquaintances that we would hang around with. To be honest, we were all “hippies” and our common denominator would be getting together for potlucks and, well, pot. After awhile, when we had been visiting some of these friends, my ex would say things like “did you sense that they were giving us bad vibes”? Now, they may have been giving him bad vibes because he could be obnoxious (especially when he drank alcohol) but I never sensed that. However, after awhile, I started wondering about it too. Eventually, our circle of friends dwindled down to almost none.
It is only one type of manipulation. Gaslighting is like if someone says you hurt me by doing this thing, and that person says that thing never happened and you are making it up. Minimization of feelings and experiences is also a form of gaslighting. Telling someone they over reacted because of their own mental illness could also be seen as a form of gaslighting. There are many ways to manipulate someone without denying their reality, so you can't just call it manipulation.
@@TyrRavensohn I don't know of another word or term that only referrers to this type of psychological abuse, no. I realize I misread what you originally wrote ^_^
I've watched a few of these videos, and still don't know what it is. You made reference to invalidating ones perception. But I would argue a perception does not, or should not, need to validate a perception. There does also seem to be an element of malice in gaslighting, which I think is important because if one does not know what they are doing, does it still mean it's gaslighting. I would like to understand what this actually is, or how it's defined.
I love that you get straight to the point and don’t waffle.
Thank you so much!
Don't gaslight the comment stream!
Gaslight is a trem used for manipulation.
In the film the only thing that's not manipulation is dimming gas lights.
But we still use gaslightng to mean manipulation.
@@DrGrande i love your goe exploration have fun meeting new People love your explanations.
Don't gaslight reality, he spoke about some movie and a play for half the video
@@GummBo3 no doubt... didn't get 'straight to the point' at all. Seems an exercise in demonstrating how analytical & thorough he can be - all foam & no beer. I appreciate what he does, in it's varying topics; however, I find him slightly unlistenable at times. Tries too hard to seem 'scientific'. Be better off wearing a lab coat & just speaking naturally, instead of as if he is answering oral exams for a doctorate panel or some such thing. A little pretentious & contrived, imo.
Anecdotally speaking, it seems to me that gaslighting also happens frequently within families (siblings, parent-to-child, etc).
My theory centers on the conspicuous nature of gaslighting in narcissistic romantic relationships. Often times, the issue is chiefly the gaslighting so it gets all the attention. When gaslighting occurs in a toxic family relationship, it comes in a complex mess of comorbid pathologies and complex dynamics so it tends to take a back seat to more clinical constructs.
Obviously, gaslighting also occurs in cults. Toxic families can resemble mini cults in many ways.
I also think that gaslighting behavior (like all human behavior really) is a nuanced spectrum. On one end you have the outlying dehumanizing exploitive behavior of a predatory narcissist and at the other end you have the universal convenient retelling or spin of specific unwanted facts that does undermine people's confidence.
So when we talk about gaslighting in the narrow sense we are talking about a pervasive and pathologically manipulating level of behavior that we all engage in to a slight degree on occasion.
@pred ater I believe that these pervasive non-pathological examples in everyday life make it harder for victims of legitimate emotional abuse via gaslighting to see it for what it is. In a culture where perception control and spin is such an everyday part of life, it is harder to identify the more extreme end as abnormal behavior.
My dad used to blame me for things that I didn't do, and sometimes, he even blamed me for things that didn't even happen, but that he completely imagined.
“Gaslighting” mostly worked on me because I looked for validation from others, didn’t have a strong sense of self, and my worldview was “wishy-washy” as in maleable and subject to change. The perfect storm to be convinced down was up, cold was hot, and that I was to blame for all of our problems.
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Are you BPD? Sounds like you have traits at least.
Hmm something to think about. It's never been suggested to me despite having psych evals over the years. I think it's more C-PTSD from childhood neglect. I'm no longer like this after the rude awakening from being bamboozled by that covert narcissist. So there's a silver lining in all of that horror
@@MuMu-fu7qe Narcissists are all the same; poisonous rats that get pleasure off of caused pain on to others.
My dad and his wife would the same to me. It gets to the point you start thinking you did those things and just can’t recall them. Such a horrible scary thing.
My parents gaslighted me by abusing me and then trying to convince me (and everyone else) that the abuse wasn't really happening and I was just crazy. I suppose you could say my brother was my "gaslight" cause when you ask him what he remembers about our childhood, he remembers the same things I do.
Same with my parents (I've noticed that this is VERY common thing here on post-soviet space) apart from I had nor any siblings, neither anyone else to tell me what my childhood actually looked like. I simply never bought it from the very begining, never doubted that abuse was really going on (of course, I wasn't familiar with terms like "abuse" or "neglect" when I was a child, but it had not prevented me from understanding what is happening). These mudaks ( I'm referring to my *ex-parents* - how do you like the term, btw?) ) have failed in imposing guilt on me and making me feel grateful (yet I can be very loving and empathetic toward other people, so it's not because I became some narcissist or psychopath who's incapable to have such feelings at all).
My parents abused me emotionally and now have forgotten everything. They threatend me and my sister and manipulated us, and now they deny everything. Or change the truth. Thank God I always kept a diary.
My mom gaslighted me and to some extent my dad. Then I had to wake up to reality. My gaslight moment was mainly just others interactions with mom and how they those was awkward. I think my mom has got OCPD and maybe some autism included. Gaslighting became her way to keep her status quo and her way of not being able to get and seek help. Her bubble is way more important than anything else.
Nicolette James, very common tactic of abusers.
My sympathies to all. I've experienced it often throughout my childhood and in recent years from an in law. Interestingly though, once I realized that he, the in law, was doing it, he modified his strategy of manipulation to try to convince everyone in my circle that I was unstable. In an odd sense, I'm grateful for the life experience.
Your teaching style is excellent: highly analytical, serious, most of the time easy to understand, concise, to the point, unpartial, not making fun of anybody or circumstances, but I also love that you are not afraid to state carefully your personal opinion after you have evaluated all the facts. That makes you so personal , reachable and trust worthy! My husband gaslights me at times. He tells me that that I am crazy and stupid when indeed he has a mental disorder and I just have to stand up for myself or I get drawn into his manipulation and power game and blame game, and I refuse. And yes that is exhausting at times. However this life has a purpose and if we respect and follow
the golden rule we might influence a person/ situation positively and make this world a little bit a better place. Thank you so much Dr Grande for your excellent teaching style!
This Dr . is the bomb ! I luv him !
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
And even as a foreigner you can understand easy...
@@gonzalez6073 Well commented Mr Gonzalez, thank you! My major weapon is my faith and my experience and my commitment to truth. It took me a little while to understand this evil manipulation game, however, I like to go into detail of behavior and I do not give up so quickly. I believe in the power of God and that He has given me a mind that I need to use and also that I need to control my emotions; and that man/woman can change, but not everybody wants to change for the better - right? Truth can be found out, understood, learned. Isn't it 'crazy' so much effort is wasted in wanting to possess the power and control? Isn't is so much nicer and relaxing if people try to understand each other and get somewhat along with each other? Respect and love each other??? Why always this power game? Understanding and confronting negative human nature/ behavior is not always an easy thing. I have learned to stand up to the manipulation game, it took me quite a while, and the truth and love of Christ is my weapon. Actually I almost feel sorry for my manipulator who has not yet fully understood (because also some Christians can be great manipulators) that if we decide to accept it: we are loved by Christ unconditionally in a such perfect way that nobody can love; that knowledge gives me the strength to fight the good fight. Not to forget the internal peace that I receive from the love of Christ that no twisted yoga position can bring! Seriously :) BTW in yoga you empty your mind, and in the end-stage demons move in. That is certainly not a desirable thing! Some things are just hard to express. I admire Dr. Grande how well he expresses the most difficult scenarios, he never gets anything mixed up :) and I also love his sense of justice and it is so cute how he treats his plants:) I am a nature lover , so I really can relate to that!
Thanks for covering this topic. I'm a victim of a stalker trying to gaslight me in the classical sense. Breaking in and entering non forced entry, moving and changing things in my home, swapping items and stealing. He has made it difficult to prove to others that this is happening to me. So not only does the gaslighter try to get the victim to question her own judgement, but also gets others to question the judgement of the victim. At least that is how it has been in my case. It is a horrific thing to go though.
Use hidden cameras!
Yes! horrific it is. I like the idea of hidden cameras. Today, tiny cameras can be had for short money, and easily operated.
Between researching and a friend that was married to covert about her gaslighting experience I was ready when my ex covert narc husband pulled this on me. He hid 3 personal items from me within a week. I assumed they were in his truck because he would hide both sets of keys. I approached him after the 3rd item went missing. I told him I knew what he did and even explained to him why he was doing this and the concept. I let that sink in for a bit then told him I was going grocery shopping and when I returned my items better be in their proper places or 2 can play that games. (I actually had no intention of doing anything) I just wanted my items back. When I returned home disappeared items reappeared.
Imagine that. That was the first and time he pulled this stunt.
I knew at that point I had to start planning on how I was going to leave. I finally left after some time and filed for divorce.
These creatures are sick and twisted, I refused to let him accomplish his goal of driving me crazy. What he did to me was exactly what his father did to his mother, except for the fact that his mother had to go to a mental institution several times before she passed away.
All this just blows my mind, they are pure evil.
Thank you!
It's terrible to think that people who are vulnerable to manipulation, through being exposed to it through family, can grow up to be manipulated by a partner. Its almost like a mental weakness that makes the person doubt they're own ability to recollect things accurately. You don't trust your own memory or sanity.
My ex husband did the same exact thing!!! I ended up having a nervous break down bc of it. Diabolical creatures they are. I’m glad you were able to get out. And good for you for standing up for yourself.
OMG!! It's almost beyond belief!!! Thanks for sharing! Forewarned is forearmed!! 🙏
In the 1944 movie there actually _is_ an element of manipulation concerning the flickering gaslight, if only after the fact. Gas is decreased in the downstairs lights every time the evil husband turns on the attic light in search of the hidden jewels. While he doesn't argue with his wife when she brings up the subject of the lights, he does manipulate her by insisting that she's imagining things. Hence the film's title.
Yes, that was my understanding too. He had to convince her she was crazy, so she would think she was imagining the gaslights dimming.
You nailed it. I saw the movie just a few weeks ago.
Yup ! Amazing film !
Angela Lansbury was in her first movie role I believe...
Yes, I started to doubt my memory of the movie, lol! It's a quick exchange where the husband discounts the wife's perception of the lights.
Ty
Thank you for the backstory. I knew only of the movie, but not of the play or original book. Thank you also for staying on-topic and being so concise. I love your style of delivery and I would think that (particularly after psychological and emotional abuse) your direct communication, without self-indulgent, nonessential fluff mixed in, would be a relief for many. I prefer direct communication at all times but particularly when exhausted and struggling in a situation where understanding is very important, I sincerely appreciate truncated and clear speech. Like Joe Friday, “All we want are the facts.” :-)
I feel like this video is a semester of information explained to be perfectly understood in under 12 minutes.
I was once told I have a vivid imagination after I was robbed by an employee of a business I was at. Fortunately for me there were cameras, in color that showed the crime and the owner fired the employee. The owner never apologized to me for asserting that I had a vivid imagination. No wonder our society is all lawyered up. It did feel good to teach that business a lesson.
In my experience, the predatory people that use this form of manipulation actively seek third parties to support their divisive cause and even make the supporting parties look like the culprit. I've heard these henchmen described as "flying monkeys" and are utilized to carry out the violation instigated by the person doing the gaslighting. Unfortunately, the damage caused by gaslighting can be immeasurable.
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Yes there is something people call gangstalking, cause stalking, organized harassment and many other things. Really it's just a coordinated method of gaslighting someone by a group, Dr. Todd said this is entirely delusional in another video Im a little confused Doctor.
In Texas we call this manipulation tactic “Bullshitting”
There is a difference between bullshitting and gaslighting. Gaslighting makes you doubt your OWN memories or even your own sanity, i.e. a parent or other family member insists "such and such" never happened and that your memory/sense of reality is faulty (even though they know it DID happen and it is documented, they want to convince you otherwise).
Gaslighting is bullshitting that requires abandoning one's confidence in one's own perception of reality in order to be believed. You can fall for someone's bullshit on a topic, and still feel perfectly capable of going about your life. With gaslighting, you're left debilitated.
@@PrezVeto Gaslighting often involves someone you really trust (like your mother, a sibling, spouse). You don't believe they would lie to you (or don't want to believe it) which is what makes you doubt yourself.
You're over simplifying the concept. Bullshit is when you're around a bunch of friends, and then one of them shows up no clothes on and everyone tells him hes looking great! Gaslighting is telling your Wife that shes just imagining that you're seeing another woman, her actually seeing you, hearing you talking to her, reading text, and listening to voice mail from her. That's Gaslighting.
There is actually a large difference here: the philosophy of the nature of bullshit, as distinct from lying, should make this clear (I have had a strong interest in this, and have written separately on this suggesting an epistemolgically-based methodological solution to the Franklin-Cohen debate). You could think of gaslighting as lying with a particularly abusive goal; I think gaslighting might be better quasi-legally called Aggrevated Lying With Intent (aggrevated means circumstances beyond the basic requirement of a crime that increase guilt, and the intent is to cause psychological harm).
Dr. Grande, thank you for making this video! As someone who experienced this phenomenon in its literal sense by a former spouse, the term has special significance. In many ways my experience played out just like the movie (which I had not seen and was unfamiliar with the term at the time). My ex would often hide and discard items, and when I would be away from the house he would "re-organize" my personal belongings, often scattering them in places that would be totally inappropriate (e.g. putting items from my car in a box on a bookshelf on the 2nd floor of my home). During the time, I was so confused, and was experiencing so much cognative dissonnace, isolation, and so much psychological abuse that I never assumed he was doing this. Nor, did I even know this was a "thing". Nobody ever would logically or rationally think that their spouse or any person for that matter was engaging in such activities because it is so bizarre! This behavior was also part of a coordinated "smear campaign," which ultimately led to 4 attemps by family and a neighbor/friend to mentally institutionalize me. I'll state for the record, I have never been diagnosed with any mental condition other than CPTSD, and never has a mental health professional determined that I've ever had a break with reality.
I have spoken to a number of people who have experienced psychological abuse by a known or presumed psychopath/narcissist, as well as clinicians about my experience. All of my experiences with the exception of this have been validated by others. However, to date, nobody I have spoken with or consulted with has actually witnessed this behavior. I'm very interested to know how often this actually happens (e.g. the overtly coordinated campaign, over a long period of time). You also state it's seen by psychopaths and narcissicists but that diagnosis does not have to be present for someone to do this. However, to me, it seems that only an extremely manipulative and disordered person would engage in the kind of campaign demonstrated in the movie (and that I also experienced). Many doubt my experience, including those familiar with highly manipulative behaviors. It seems that there would be a distinction between someone "gaslighting" on a one-off basis, and those who engage in this tactic as part of a broader series of activities over time. Are you able to expand on that and what that may mean?
If you could illuminate (no pun intended!) more on this behavior, including its clinical references, I am very eager to learn more. One of the mose helpful things for me has been to objectively understand my experiences because I have almost no external validation. Everything I've seen and read on gaslighting never actually cites the actual manipulation of one's environment. I've also heard the term "ambient abuse". Is this a clinical term and is this associated with glaslighting (because it sounds like it would be). I'm sure there are other clinicians and targets/victims who have witnessed/experienced this, but since there is little out there on the topic, having access to a larger body of knowledge would be very helpful.
I love your content and more video content on this particular topic I feel would be highly beneficial to the collective conscious on this matter.
My mother is a gaslighter and she's also a narcissist. I've had to cut off my family for years unfortunately but my life has exponentially improved since excising myself from them.
I learnt years ago, for the sake of my sanity, I had to disown my mother and siblings. It's a decision I wished I made as a teenager but my self esteem was non existent then, because they are such arseholes-and they never ever changed.
Forgive me for not using big words like you or your guests. All I know about "gaslighting" is what it felt like to be the victim of it from a narcissistic/psycho/manipulative/lying/predator....a/k/a Ass Face.lol In 1 year of dating him, it took me years and years to undo the damage. He destroyed my self confidence, made me full of anxiety and yes gaslighting is a perfect name for it. I could feel and see the gaslight within myself flickering. My internal flame was dying as he gained more control and that flicker made me pull away to save my self. Thank you for your amazing videos that help.
Excellent explanation. This term is so popular on TH-cam and I even had patients using it. It bothered me that I couldn’t get a good handle on the meaning. Thx now I get the connection to the movie.
Thank you so much!
Same. First time I heard it was from a person I share a bloodline with. I was like I don't get it. She keep saying it and had her boyfriend say it to me.
An example of gas lighting that happened to me. I asked my then bf to do the dishes and went grocery shopping. Come home a few hours later and the dishes aren't don't. I get angry and ask why they haven't been done and bf claims I never asked him to do them and insists I'm not remembering correctly. I believe him but then he keeps doing this, saying I don't remember things I have asked him to do or things I have done (like saying I broke a plate he actually broke) and I start feeling crazy and like I'm losing my memory or something. Start recording conversations and yeah, he was lying the entire time to get out of doing chores or taking any responsibility for anything.
@@Meskarune Time to go, sugar!
My husband would call me from work and ask me to find a certain tool he'd forgotten, could I find it and have it ready when he came to pick it up. At that point I had no idea what I was dealing with. I just knew that I needed to find the tool, find the tool, find the tool...He always had it with him. Talk about hyperviligance. These memories embarres me and make me cry. Gaslighting/manipulation/brainwashing whatever you call it, works.
He was training " your mind " for him to manipulate and stay in that mode.
@@gwillis9797 No doubt...I've been erased. I'm completely apathetic now. It's not that bad...not that good either. Haha
Yes the gaslight WAS part of the manipulation, she saw it flickering/dimming and the husband told her she was just imagining it which was one more thing that made her doubt her sanity. The husband didn't dim the lights intentionally, but he made her doubt that it was happening.
Thank you!!!
Dr Todd, sir, you must be a joy to attend movies with. Plot holes and devices beware!
So Gaslighting is when someone gets another person to believe that there is something wrong with them when in reality they’re fine. It’s psychological manipulation and it’s very subtle and passive aggressive. Gaslighting are basically seeds of doubt by the abuser that enters the victim’s mind which erode their judgment, perception, and sense of reality. People use gaslighting to make others confused ultimately dependent on the abuser!
Thanks for this video. You're perfectly right, weakening of the gaslight is the clue that shows someone is using the gas elsewhere, the clue that indicates she's not crazy!
Yeah my mom Gaslit me while I was growing up, amongst many other horrible & manipulative things.
Somehow I managed to not fall for the gaslighting, I trusted myself enough to know she was lying and playing games.
I had a foster child who was gaslighted by his family into believing he was autistic. Once we got him away from the family and to an actual counselor- he discovered he was normal- but abused. Not autistic. Did very well away from familiy, grades skyrocketed, got meaningful work, made tons of friends. But he decided to go back to the people who were gaslighting him for a visit and never returned. They convinced him we had taken him to quack and got him back on ssi and they were cashing his checks and medicating him. Until I met and saw him I never actually knew this was possible. I was also shocked to learn that for many like him they dont actually see Doctors but rather mental health case workers, who submit his paperwork to the doctors and they get rubberstamped. This was in Orlando, FL
Actually, in the movie at least, he triangulates her with the maid. She does express her observations about the gaslights a few times and is denied. I know at least once, but I think twice, when the maid tells her she didn't notice. The husband also convinces the maid the wife is unwell so she just thinks the wife is being very neurotic when asking about the lights. But the maid is young and likely didn't notice. I believe the husband also dismisses her concerns about the light, knowing full well she did see that. In the end, it is the gaslights that have her ready to commit herself, but it is also the lights that exxonerate her, when the investigator notices and points out the dimming of the lights, which by this point she just ignores it thinking it isn't real
I really appreciate Dr. Grande's clarity and precision about terms. His presentation allows the viewer to identify and understand gaslighting, without being confused if the person who is gaslighting them does not appear to be narcissistic or psychopathic. As Mike Baker, in his comments points out, gaslighting can come as garden-variety family dynamics.
I really appreciate Dr. Grande's insight that gaslighting, rather than being the ploy that deceives you, can be the clue which allows you to escape from the deception.
Hi Dr. Grande - just watched this video and wanted to add something here.
The original film based on the play is a British thriller called "Gaslight", and was made in 1940. The 1944 film was an MGM adaptation. I recommend watching the 1940 British film, it does show why the term "gas-lighting" came about. The husband really does manipulate the wife into thinking she is going insane and imagining things. He reminds me a bit of my ex :-)
I acted in that stage play, many years ago..
I was the maid Nancy, in the stage version of that play years and years ago. Very interesting it was too, the atmosphere on set.
@@vivlee3840 no you didn't.
@@vivlee3840 you just think you did.
@@Dischordian perfect gaslighting example
Good and necessary advice for anyone experiencing this. I should say that it's been a very long time since I've seen the movie...and I'm personally not confused by the fact that the dimming lights weren't a manipulation tactic in the movie.... I just tend to use the word and understand it's common usage as a kind of covert, subtle, cognitive manipulation, intended to screw with one's perceptions (for any number of different reasons) I also occasionally use it to describe my own cognitive dissonance in situations where I'm picking up on subtle cues from a person who is not acknowledging any validity to my feeling. I realize that not everyone has to share every little detail about what's going on with them, but because this can have the same result as intentional gaslighting, I feel it's important for such a person to at least have the sensitivity to acknowledge that, yes, we may be "picking up on" something, but that "something" is not something they care to discuss right now......rather than denying it's existence which can cause us all to start distrusting our gut and intuition....and lead to all kinds of issues
Electrical illumination and gas illumination coexisted for a brief period in the very early 20th century. My great grandfather was a noted architect in New York in the early 20th century. In the house he built for himself and his family in Flushing, Queens, New York in 1900, at that time he did not immediately assume that the new 'electricity' would succeed, so he built his new house on Barkley Ave with dual fuel capability - bare wires wrapped around porcaline insulators and gas/electric lamps. The house lasted more than a hundred years, but not the inhabitants.
Thank you Dr. Grande. For over 40 years my husband would contradict casual statements I made in the company of his law school friends without any explanation. It was embarrassing because he did it in a way that was quick and final which was code to his friends his wife didn’t know what she was talking about, crazy or stupid. It was awkward. Everyone went silent for a minute or so. Then, a few years later, he would bring up the very same topic to someone else in the family and state exactly what was said by me years ago in front of his friends. When I called him out on it, he said he didn’t remember. Awful! I’ve been with him for 41 years and I now know what, not why, he has been doing. It’s a very destructive behavior and one should get out of that relationship asap. Unfortunately for me, it’s too late.
I think we call it "Gaslighting" just because the movie is called Gaslight. It's an obviously (in its time) pop culture reference.
Just like movie names and references happen in everyday conversations today.
It's more obvious/less confusing than "I/we stan", I gotta say ;) ...
Agreed. Dr. Grande details things correctly with the term, but the other youtubes use the term to shortcut to a phenomenon which appears to be common especially from those with NPD.
GullerudGallery.com I really prefer to know the real scientific terms. Otherwise, the meaning gets muddied.
@@kathaa-b6972 Stan comes from an Eminem song. Though, in that case "Stan" was meant to be negative. The character's name basically combines the word "stalker" and "fan". Don't know how or why the term because positive but when it was first used, it was used negatively like the original song.
I am a victim of gaslighting from a very large religious cult I was a part of. The effects were not only damaging to me but also to many other members of the Mormon church who start to see contradicting evidence and are made by members and leaders to feel crazy and evil. I feel that gaslighting in group form is a lot more common than realized when one considers this context. I sincerely wish there was more research done in this field. The phenomenon is interesting because the members guilty of the gaslighting are not fully intentionally doing it. In one sense they are intentional (willful ignorance) but in another they aren’t and this occurs because of Doublethink (a term made popular by Orwell’s 1984) in which they simultaneously believe two contradicting narratives at once. Doublethink is like a cousin of gaslighting. It somehow fuels it. It is highly damaging and deserves more attention. Thanks for covering this term Dr Grande!
I edited a spelling error and it removed Dr Grande’s heart. Sorry! But thanks for the love :)
Whoah! Your comment is very interesting! I wonder what would be uncovered if such research were to be done..... especially in the catholic church!!!
This is brilliant !! I was thinking the other day, why is gas-lighting so named because they didn't seem to fit the description of making a person think they're insane. My sisters, who are narcissists, explained to me that my ex was gaslighting. They of all people told me that he wanted me to think I'm crazy. I appreciate them for it
Thank you for the correct explanation. I will share this video with myself and others, I'm already a subscriber and I know why.
Forgive my doubts, but could it possibly be that it was your sisters' projection?
Of course, I don' have any info about your ex and your relationship so I'm not pretending to know better.
But what bothers me is the fact that modern pop-psychology is pushing " _if you _*_FEEL_*_ there's something's wrong - leave!_ " narrative - especially to women.
I fell pray to such an attitude myself. I had a girlfriend (who I still love and care for) with BPD, and when end up in a situation that hurt us both our mutual "friend" convinced her (she is highly suggestible) that I'm some kind of abuser. My attempts to give the other side of the story, to present my point of view were completely dismissed and labeled as gaslighting (although I've never said anything like "don't listen to her, she's insane and got it all wrong" or some milder equivalent of this). Which was rather easy to do cause I expected our "friend" to help us sort this all out, so I was in a total shock (I also had severe physical symptoms because of that - which were probably considered fake) when the "friend" immediately started to blame me for all kind of things and turned the talk into an interrogation of me.
So labeling someone as a gaslighter might happen to be an act of gaslighting itself.
The reason why your comment reminded me of my story is that this "friend" of ours has rather strong narcissistic traits (and probably some sociopathic too) as well as your sisters.
Btw, when I shared this story with others (mostly females), first reaction of some was "If things went that way it should be for a reason" (implication was it's probably all my fault, i.e. they gaslighted me). Then (even before I could finish) they could demand a solid proof that I'm not an abuser. Until then they will think otherwise... I was considered guilty until prove innocent, in other words.
Note that these were folks to whom I turned to in order to find support (and maybe some advice on how I could restore our relationship) - and I told them so. They pretended to be willing to support me.
(Just in case: none of them knew Her. And I didn't even ever gave as little as her name to anyone. So it was nothing like some campaign against her. ... One can see what I do expect after such a "support"...)
I saw the movie a long time ago, and I do remember that her problems started when the lights would deem around 4:00 p.m., and she told the maid, and the maid would say she didn't notice anything. The following day, the wife would notice again and the maid would deny she noticed. When her husband arrived she told him, he asks the maid and the maid denies noticing it again. The wife would also hear noises coming from upstairs and the maid would deny hearing them. I remember this clearly, although I don't remember the hidden items, but it looks like we gave more importance to different things. Even I was doubting if the deemed lights and the noises were in her head or not. The deeming of the lights is what would make her ware that something was happening and scare her, and the noises would tell her it was upstairs. So everything he did afterwards was to make her think she was going crazy, and he did use the maid to back him up to be more convincing. SPOILER ALERT: At the end, it turns out the maid was in corrupts with the husband.
That was an excellent commentary on gas lighting and the importance of critical thinking skills and discernment to escape toxic situations.
The actual name of the play is "Angel Street" subtitled Gaslight. I know,I was in the play and played the detective that helped the woman figure out her husband was an imposter and murderer. The gaslight device was incidental to the plot and it's resolution.
Thank you, Dr. Grande. I am so happy to have found your videos.
You are most welcome!
I love the way you explain things. Strait to the point, easy to understand, and just as Ann P Tully said, you don't waffle. I have 30 years experience in the medical field and know just enough to get myself into trouble ;). I love the mental health field and have worked mostly in the substance abuse mental health as a "teacher/listener" I don't have a degree of any kind, but I have a hell of a lot of experience. And I'm 24 years clean of crack cocaine last Cinco de Mayo. Thank you for doing these videos. I enjoy them immensely.
I have some sort of mental illness which various therapists and psychiatrists have called different things. Most recently it has been called Aspergers Syndrome or Reactive Attachment Disorder. I fully recognize that I am not a normal person, although I have been taking steps to fit in with society better. That being said, as my family members have passed away I have come to realize that they have been falsely attributing symptoms to me and dehumanizing me for percieved differences, even when I am engaging in innocuous behavior.
At the moment, my only surviving relatives are my sister and two underage nephews, who I live with due to financial issues. Now that it's just her carrying on this behavior, when she does these things it's clearly a nonsequitor. For instance before heading off to work one day, I went out to check something on my bike before work and came back in to grab my bag. The minute I stepped through the door she said in an incredibly overdramatic voice, "What's going on? I don't understand what's going on! You're scaring me!" Mind you, all I did was walk through the door. I didn't interact with her or anything in the room. I was just walking back to my room to grab my bag.
She uses those phrases, "I don't know what's going on," and "you're scaring me," all the time, when I'm just trying to use the microwave in the kitchen or something. At the same time, she complains that I never really leave my room. Why would I want to leave my room when doing something like making a microwave dinner leads to me being treated that way?
Another behavior my family used to engage in (and she still does) is to shoot down anything I say and dismiss me because I'm weird or mentally ill. Okay, I know I'm different, but I'm not psychotic and I can have opinions and know facts. Why the hell does being weird mean I'm wrong to say I want to buy a certain vehicle because it has good gas mileage?
This whole thing just weighs really heavily on me because I'm dependent on my sister, I'm 30 and have no prospects due to mental illness, I have no support network because of whatever it is that really is wrong with me, and I see her starting to do the same thing to my older autistic nephew.
Sorry for the rant, I just really needed to put this down somewhere someone might read it, even if it will make no difference.
My heart goes out to you!! Your situation is truly heart breaking!!! At times like this, when I feel there's no solution or resolve I turn to Ho'oponopono by the late Dr Hew Len. You ll find it on youtube. Give it a try, although at first you'll probably say 'no way!!' You see life is a dramatic play and we each have our roles. May you find resolve and may peace reign in your household 🙏
You mention that gaslighting is mostly done by a man to a woman.
How about a (narcissist) mother to a (scapegoat) daughter? I see that others have asked a similar question...would love to hear your take on:
- that particular relationship dynamic
-the psychological mechanisms behind the gaslighting behavior. What are the common origins? How does shame play a part? Can the narcissist change? Can disconnection be a healthy option?
-what the adult daughter can do, once empowered by this understanding, to move to the next point along the continuum of recovery.
To your point about how it's important to have multiple sources of information: this is why TH-cam and online communities are so important. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
jen chapman great question I would also love to see a video on that topic
Yes Jen, I've seen and watched it happen too. Good call.
I am interested as well. My mother always denied a certain thing happened but my uncle eventually confirmed it did happen. It made me feel crazy for decades until my uncle told me what actually happened.
I think Dr grande needs to watch the TH-cam documentary The Red Pill
Very good explanation. Thanks for all your videos and work !
Hi Dr. Grande. I found your channel today and I wanted to thank you for your elaborate explanation and information about this topic. In my life experiences, this has been the most profound view and perspective that has brought a level of techniques and awareness for me. Thank You!~ Many Blessings ...
Thank you so much for those kind words -- You are quite welcome!
I seem to recall that the film's original name was "Fanny by gaslight" which has different connotations today.
Mine was a BPD female. She Gaslighted me. I had a strong sense of self so ignored it. How much was deliberate, and how much was dissociation? I was more upset that she used the false narrative to smear me with her Flying Monkeys.
If you have a strong self image, that can be hurtful.
At the time I did not know of Cluster B Disorders, NPD or BPD, so it was particularly hurtful. Today I would ignore it; but today I would never be in that situation again. I can spot a Cluster B a mile away (even the coverts given time).
Same here. It's funny how we become the awakened to these types instantly. Vampire slayers we are. The truth is the sword of death for the false self
Through my life experience with them, the red flags have become glaringly evident. Throughout my life, my naivete allowed me to ignore them. Now, I can usually spot problems on the horizon..... usually.
When I started to date my now estranged wife she told me she was sexually abused by a close family member when she was 10 years old. Some 30 years later when we were going through a rough time and the sexual abuse subject came up again , she told me that I had made all that up & that conversation had never happened. I went through a horrible few months after that thinking I was going insane. Only then for her to change her story again to her admitting she did tell me she was sexually abused but she was just naive and the correct story is that the abuser had just put his arm around her whilst they sat on the sofa. Suffice to say she lives some 30 miles away from me now & I'm having some much needed therapy.
The husband would skulk around in the attic and use the gas so lights in her rooms would dim. He wasn't supposed to be home.
One minor form of gas-lighting is when you're given erroneous instructions by a third party which you carry-out, you get blamed for the error, you explain to your supervisor that you are not at fault, but your supervisor deflects to a different issue instead of understanding that you were not the one who created the erroneous instructions. The supervisor feels defensive enough to feel the need to deflect, not recognizing that it is not the supervisor's fault either. This reaction suggests to me that the supervisor may be a victim of narcissism. is this a possibility?
I should also mention the supervisor is very fearful of a particular superior's executive assistant.
Hi Dr.Grande
Thanks for your great insightful videos I am learning a lot from them....bless you, and your work
People on YT need to see this video now, way too many people lump gaslighting in with someone just lying.
The huge problem with gaslight is that it's difficult to see if the person is Lying to " gaslight" or not.
If you are a really smart person with strong toughts and self esteem it's easy... expecially if the person trying to gaslight has a lot lower mental I.Q.
you're right and yes most of the time they are lieing in my experience. I was in a relationship with someone who tried this crap on me but we weren't in a relationship long enough for the other to have any effect. at first I thought the person was taking too much of their medication for chronic pain but once I explained what was going on to a friend and he told me that the person was trying to gaslight me. so after that all gaslighting attempts were met with a middle finger, me calling the other a crazy junkie, then eventually I left and never seen that demon again.
Been a victim and never again going to trust myself even if I am wrong. I was able to keep a grip for seven years. People pick personal boundaries and stick with it and you will be free
I use the term gaslighting to describe what my brain does to itself from my schizophrenia. Its easier to get people to understand that way
That is a good way to describe it. My brother has paranoid schizophrenia and unfortunately thinks we're all out to get him half the time, though he's been better lately.
In my case it’s 2 on 1, my parents gaslight me all the time. I tried to call out my dad on the behavior and he said “If you bring up that ‘gaslighting’ bullshit again I’m kicking you out.” And of course he’d deny having ever said THAT. And my parents said “You keep using silly words like ‘gaslighting’ and ‘abuse’ and ‘trigger’” after I mentioned my friend’s abusive mom. Like no those words aren’t silly, they’re fucking serious. I recently gotten back in touch with my grandpa after my mom keeping my brother and I from him for years. And when I told him my parents were “mistreating me” he shook his head and said “I saw it coming... ever since you were a baby...” and so I revealed more details and he brought up his experiences and for the first time I had a family member I could trust, a family member I could tell the truth to. For the first time it wasn’t just me. I knew that it wasn’t all in my head.
Fascinating. From my observational experience it seems that gas-lighting can be a tool to developing learned helplessness.
Very good, Dr Grande. I'm pleased to see a trained professional talk about this and explain that it's not talked about scientifically using that specific term but is referred to by different names.
I also like how you made the point of the video to echo the play and movie, in that the gaslighting can be used to give you clues as to what's going on, and lead you to freedom.
Leading on from your advice at the end about making sure you stay open to other sources of information in order to make a balanced assessment of what's really happening, this would be why the gaslighter often "triangulates" his/her victim, so that there are fewer sources of information available.
Really nice video; thank you.
Lisa Cherry Beaumont, other sources of information, yes, and also reminding ourselves that we ourselves are consistent and reliable sources of information if we are in a balanced state. I find it very easy to differentiate truth from lie just by asking myself if I’m being reasonable and following that through process through. Being manipulated into thinking that a very unreasonable situation is, in fact, reasonable is complete and utter BS. We need to remember how to listen to and use the minds and instinct that God has given us. Turns out we needn’t be victims beyond childhood!
Holly + That triangulation that LCB mentions is just one of the many ways that manipulative people use to keep us in an "unbalanced" state. It's not until we understand this that we can even begin to take more control and responsibility for our own state....and this understanding has to come from somewhere. Unfortunately, so many "victims" perceptions of themselves become so skewed due to the manipulation tactics of these people that it can take something like a miracle or a very "lucky break" (such as the noticing of the dimming gaslights in the movie) before they can even begin to untangle it all. So, while I agree that "ultimately" we need not be victims beyond childhood....I would also say that until we have some kind of "lucky break" that helps us see the truth of the situation, many, many people....far beyond childhood...remain "blind-folded" in sense....and thus, don't have the tools to access the insight that's needed to break free from their conditioning. Thanks to so much info out on the internet now, these "lucky breaks" and the ability to gain insight may be getting easier/more likely to occur. For me that "lucky break" was an article on Oprah's website 10+ years ago that got my own ball rolling (around the age of 40ish) until then, I wouldn't have even had a "search term" or "thread" to follow. Kudos to Dr. Grande and many others on the web who are so soooo helpful in this way.
MaCoeur Yes! All of this. Thank you.
Finally a name put to what I have experienced
Isn't it great when you get a new tool in your pouch. When the only tool you have is a hammer all of your problems look like nails.
You knew it in thoughts and feelings.
It's given to you in words.
Narcissists from dysfunctional families are good for gas lighting. They try to make the designated scapegoat think and feel that they are bad and there's something wrong with them. When in fact, the scapegoat does at times, turn out to be the most accomplished member. As long as they don't allow the narc's get to them. I'd like to see Dr. Grade's take on Candice De Long. She's the criminal profiler and has a show on Deadly women. Great show too btw.
I'd never heard of this term until The Young and the Restless did a storyline where Adam was doing this to Ashley, which was pretty horrible. Ever since then I've seen it pop up all over the place. Great explanation!
Very empowering analysis, thanks Doc ✋
You're welcome!
I mostly just like music videos, but I was interested in the term and your videos came up, it's great and very informative! Thank you. Thumbs up👍
I think the gaslight is really symbolic for the key to realizing the deceptive, psychological games being played. it's like the evidence of ill intent. it is a bit weird the way it turned into a term but it actually works for me if you consider that using it is essentially based on someone believing they have discovered an empowering truth.
I have seen a lot of people using this term in recent years. In one case, I believe this was properly used. A narcissistic (clinically diagnosed) man "gaslit" his current wife by years and years of lying and manipulation of his wife, who had Bipolar Disorder. She was submissive, dismissed, and emotionally and financially dependent on him. She was convinced she couldn't be trusted with her own care, the care of their child and was never even allowed to have money. Also convinced she was chronic, a danger to herself and could never even dream of getting better so accepted his opinion. After 15 years, she went under the care of a really good therapist and eventually worked her way through it and divorced him and is on her way to recovery of self. And it is an uphill battle.
But with that said, I have heard it used when people talk about anyone who is lying and being manipulate. I get why they use it, but the "victim" here isn't buying into it so they aren't really being gaslit and to me, undermines the tragedy of people who do have their metal state manipulated and even altered by other people. Not that these peope aren't suffering, but I guess I'm saying it as a "sorta" syllogism.
1. All lions are carnivores.
2. Not all antelope are killed and eaten by carnivores.
3. Therefore not all lions kill antelope.
I think this is a syllogism for:
1. All "gaslighters" are manipulative, liars (by distortion, outright lying, or omission) and want their "victim" to be altered to their ideal state.
2. Not all people who are lied to and manipulated have been gaslight.
3. Therefore, not all people who lie, manipulate, etc are gaslighting.
I think that is right but I haven't had my coffee.
Great video. Again Dr. Grande. Thank you.
Grande, got it mostly wrong this time. The term gaslighting applies to anyone trying to manipulate someone else by changing the facts of reality. This might be merely minimizing abuse toward the victim, or challenging the victims perception of the facts to the advantage of the abuser. The reason narcissism is so often involved is the lack of empathy and remorse of the perpetrator. Narcissist, are so self centered they have little regard for the damage they do to others who are affected by gaslighting.
My mom gaslights me and even though I meant no harm, and I was just being human, I always apologize and feel immense guilt for the bad intentions she gives me. I love her a lot and she's usually a kind person, but sometimes little things and mistakes I make trigger her anger and if I try to explain myself it gets a lot worse. I hate confrontation and I really try to be a good person but she makes me feel like a horrible person at times.
Example: I answer her question casually but she gets offended, and I say "I didn't mean to upset you I was answering the question." She will say "You WERE NOT answering a question." And then I ruminate and go over the situation over and over to try and figure out what my own intentions were, when really, it's not that deep. But then I don't know how to resolve the situation without apologizing profusely.
I love your channel, Dr. Grande. I've learned a lot from your videos.
I never really understood this in anything but an abstract way until it was done to me.
Gaslighting is an incedibly cowardly thing to do to a human being, and anyone involved in it and all its insipidly vicious aspects, should be tried convicted and put behind bars. That is if they survive their opioid addiction. Both activities are closely related and I can prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt...Any District Attorney's interested ?
Thank you, Dr. Todd...a great analogy of the term Gas Lighting. I saw a bit of the 1940s movie...kind of creepy. Enjoy all your videos. ⚘
Thank you for the knowledge. Answered my questions perfectly
What’s the difference between gaslighting and being told that walking on water, changing water into wine, healing the blind, and resurrection from the dead are real and true and must be believed and if you reject them as real, true, and believable then you’re sick? Gaslighting and religion are one and the same.
I worked with a guy who, if he turned up late, would insist he had been there but it was me that came late or just didn’t notice him. And whilst he was telling me this would stare me straight in the eye ! Effin spooky behaviour.
His "skills", if controllable by him, would make a great undercover cop. That's why cops can LIE and perjure themselves. What amazes me is the executives that DON'T SEE IT, and it's right in front of them. I actually had a President of a company explain it: He had married his HS sweetheart, gone into admin. immediately after junior college, and had never been on a job site with "street people", criminals, mentally unstable, and druggies. He "just didn't see it". It wasn't a part of his lifestyle, yet we were the same age.
Wow thanks Dr Grande for clear and easy to understand explanation,. I get it!
My husband interrupts me by angrily saying "NO!" whenever I begin speaking, especially in public. He doesn't even realize he's doing it. I have been the fundraiser for his nonprofit organization for over 10 years. When he interrupts me in front of potential donors by loudly saying no, right when I am describing his program, I believe it makes the potential donor feel distrust of me, the person who has signed that all funds will be used in the proper way. He always does it in front of his family and in front of donors. Needless to say, the relationship he and I have with his family is horrible and his program suffers from a lack of funds.
How come you are still with him?????
Great explanation. Always wondered where the term originated and what it meant.👍🏾
Fascinating.... thank you for tracing this term back to its original sources, given this new information, gaslighting could be considered more akin to triangulation than suggestion or brainwashing.
I found that "pulling the wool over one's eyes" is a perfect phrase for gaslighting.
The examples from the gaslight story are so reminiscent of my own experience. The hardest part about being with someone who is truly psychopathic or NPD is they isolate you before any of it starts. I wasn't allowed to have friends and was distanced from my family for nearly ten years while I was with someone who, I believe, to have NPD.
After they separate you, the build you up and let you know the reason you needed to get away from all those other people is because they didn't appreciate you or they're bad people and only they can truly love and care for you.
Once they build you up and show you they are truly the only person that is trustworthy and safe that's when the worst of their nature comes out. That's when they have you.
Thank you!! Appreciate this video so, so, So much!!!! You do an excellent job of teaching this concept! Well done! Enjoy your videos!!!
I never heard of this term when I was growing up. It seems like a type of bullying or abusive pattern from one person to another person ...It can be done by group of people too. And people can do it through social networking also. Do I have this correct? I guess the worst part of it, the victim cannot fight back or defend himself/herself. And it is tough to prove the pattern of abuse (gaslighting) from a group who may be doing it ...if you can, would you be able to actually report it as a crime?
According to another video by Dr. Grande groups don't do this and never have and if you say they do your delusional.
This is an excellent video with a great message. Well done!
Thank you!
Thank you for the explanation, very interesting. Just a thought perhaps the scientific literature should adopt the term ''gaslighting' since it seems a good term to conceptualise ''inter-personal manipulation'' which is a bit of a mouthful.
… yet so much clearer as to what is being referred to.
2:34 you use the word I was looking for: " invalidate".
Isn't gaslighting really an over-romanticized synonym for invalidation? I know someone with serious mental problems that were allegedly triggered by a lifetime of systematic invalidation by an adoptive parent.
What to do if my boyfriend kept on saying that i didnt talk to him about "the subject"... but i was pretty sure 100% that spoke to him about "the subject" ... then he's sure of himself about it.. and kept on arguing....but i remember that i had spoken to him about it and he denies it.... so now im not sure of whatever i say because it happens so many times.. why would i come up with something not even a big deal? 🤔 yes im pregnant , admit that im forgetful about whatever people talk to me about but i know what i said.. 😅 then i came up with a story "fake"cuz ive had enough.... then i told him that he didnt even response at my question earlyer... and he told me that he did.. he did say it.. omg i was shoook... i told him that there were never a question and i made that up... then he told me that was true he answer the question.. he remembered.. so.. i dont know what to think about this anymore.. 😪
Thanks for talk on Gaslight reference. This reframes the meaning for me. Like seeing through the Gaslight is awakening from the manipulations.
Thank you for explaining this confusing term for us!
9:28 You contradicted your self here. A normal person would not engage with real "gaslighting", because like you said gaslighting is a long term behavior.
If you play tricks on a person a time or two is that also considered gas lighting?.
NORMAL PEOPLE don't engage in real gas lighting because there is nothing to gain from it. Its long term and very time consuming, Maybe its called something else.
Only people who who have there disorders and the people who they use to carry them out is engaged in "gaslighting".
Thank you. This helped me in understanding the origin and phenomenon.
What bothers me the most is how frequently people use this term wrong to describe regular differences of opinions or critiques of perception/opinion between people who do not have a longer/familial/intimate relationship.
Gaslighting refers to a person/people in a position of trust who knowingly set out to decieve and invalidate someone's senss of being in touch with reality.
It does not refer to some random person on the internet telling you your personal woo or paranormal experience has no credibility, nor does it refer to things like men and women generally having a different perception of a political climate or gender-role pressures etc.
Gaslighting is now so frequently use to tar people as a debate tactic that, ironically, by that loose and silly usage the people who use it could themselves be argued to be gasslighting.
/facepalm
The dimming of the gaslight IS discussed in the movie. She asks why this is happening and he denies that it's happening at all. She hears noises in the attic (when he's searching for the jewels) and asks about them, and denies that they're happening at all. As I remember, he also gets the young female maid (Angela Lansbury) in on his plot, so she too denies these things are happening. So in order to cover up his activities which his wife is hearing and seeing, he escalates his "gaslighting" of her to convince her that she only thinks these things are happening because she's crazy.
An issue with gaslighting (or the perception of it) is that it can be associated with other personality disorders apart from the narcissistic ones. Having worked with a psychologist who displayed symptoms of OCPD/SchizotypalPD was akin to being gaslighted. Simply for the fact her interpretation of factual events differed so strongly from what actually occurred. Coupled with her insistence that she was "entitled" to her bizarre interpretation of events created a very risky clinical environment to work in.
While the "gaslight" in the context of the original play and movie might have served as the signal to the wife that she was being lied to rather than the manipulation itself, the connotative meanings of the words "gas" and "light" when put together are so powerful for describing this form of manipulation that it was probably inevitable that the word "gaslight" would end up referring to the manipulation itself. "Light" has connotations of things like "signal" or "truth," "understanding." "Gas" has connotations of "tenuous," "fake," "obscuring," "smells bad." So when you put these connotative meanings together you have a very powerful term for describing a bold fake truth.
Yes, after seeing what he was really doing to me. It pushed me away and changed how I saw him. I’ve never experienced anything like it. It’s frightening.
I'm sharing this video on major TH-cam channels about the Trucker revolt in Canada and Trudeau's response... even though gaslighting didn't start out as a large dishonesty onto multiple people, it has become so in our world...so true the way to not be a "gaslighting" victim is to stay connected to multiple sources for the truth....
Dr, you are so understandable. Ive heard this term before but didnt knw what it was. I have a better understanding now. But to hear you speak is a plus..
Is it gaslighting if an ex acts kind for 3 minutes then starts yelling and cursing, accusing you of cheating in really immoral and disgusting ways?? Or is that more of a bipolar disorder?
4:30 people put on performances of old plays all the time. There are even Tony Awards specifically for "revivals" of plays, meaning not a new play but an old play re-mounted on Broadway.
My mentor advised me to always keep talking to your political opponents and never close off alternate sources of information. Gaslighters often spin stories of character assassination to the people around you, and make sure they commit to never checking the "facts" as offered by the gaslighter, effectively isolating you. The only way around it is to keep communication wide open, even if you don't like the family member!!
I' m living as a foreigner in Ireland and have heard this word often and felt like: Okay , what about are you speaking? Thanks for this information, this makes it all clear.
I wonder if this is considered a form of gaslighting (or manipulation). My ex- husband was emotionally abusive. He was also an alcoholic. At one time, we had a rather large group of friends and acquaintances that we would hang around with. To be honest, we were all “hippies” and our common denominator would be getting together for potlucks and, well, pot. After awhile, when we had been visiting some of these friends, my ex would say things like “did you sense that they were giving us bad vibes”? Now, they may have been giving him bad vibes because he could be obnoxious (especially when he drank alcohol) but I never sensed that. However, after awhile, I started wondering about it too. Eventually, our circle of friends dwindled down to almost none.
So, besides "manipulation" was is another term for gaslighting?
It is only one type of manipulation. Gaslighting is like if someone says you hurt me by doing this thing, and that person says that thing never happened and you are making it up. Minimization of feelings and experiences is also a form of gaslighting. Telling someone they over reacted because of their own mental illness could also be seen as a form of gaslighting. There are many ways to manipulate someone without denying their reality, so you can't just call it manipulation.
@@WiseVirlomi I know. Thank you. But what is another "term" for gaslighting? He never had a synonym for it.
@@TyrRavensohn I don't know of another word or term that only referrers to this type of psychological abuse, no. I realize I misread what you originally wrote ^_^
You have the best and most informative explanation of this that I've seen. Thank you very much.
Another excellent informative video. Thanks Dr!
I've watched a few of these videos, and still don't know what it is.
You made reference to invalidating ones perception. But I would argue a perception does not, or should not, need to validate a perception.
There does also seem to be an element of malice in gaslighting, which I think is important because if one does not know what they are doing, does it still mean it's gaslighting.
I would like to understand what this actually is, or how it's defined.