SOTL vs Updated Extreme AI
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.พ. 2025
- I'll review the changes made recently to the Extreme AI in Definitive Edition, and then I'll try it out in a 1v1.
Settings: Arabia (tiny map), standard resources, conquest victory, random civilizations (Byzantines vs Khmer).
Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
Game: Age of Empires 2 Definitive Edition, with Forgotten Empires, African Kingdoms, Rise the Rajas, and Last Khans expansions
Spirit: Man this Extreme AI is being weird and inferior to me.
Me: Loses 15 minutes in to Standard AI
Well standard ai can be good. But then again just wall and you're fine XD, then again again I play Teutons on Black Forest which apparently is a bad thing.
Fast castle will easily beat them all the time. They don't really build an army till castle age.
@@HandsomeGamerGuy Weird, for me, Standard DE AI just chills and tries to boom.
Then I kick his ass.
Moderate sometimes tries to rush
Hard always does
Sadly.. me too
btw shorud and the other played aoe 2...they got dominated by ai....how the hell he dont get dominated?
Hitting the AI with 105 taunt at the end ... I don't think computers are yet ready to handle such devastating wrath.
Origin story of skynet
when the robots take over, it's gonna be his fault
@Timo Vandrey 104 for "dont resign"
105 for "you can resign again"
I theorize Spirit of the Law is just an advanced AI which is why he hits his fellow computer with both a taunt and a gg at the end. Also why he wants a deep learning algorithm to power the AI so they can team up and Skynet the world.
@@imafr11 well hes probably the first one the robots get revenge on.
5:47 - "He really loves his berries, as all AIs do."
_looks down at own berry yogurt breakfast_
forward university was definitely a winning move
Lol I was thinking the same 😂, but I guess it helps to keep a better track of the battlefield on the meantime somehow.
And he still forgot to use it
Thanks for ruining the game, fucktard.
@@themedip Handle yourself!
@@themedip Is this sarcasm? If not, why are you reading the comments before watching the video?
One of my favorite new little things about the AI in DE is that, if you had typed in "GG" when they said they're about to resign, just before the victory screen, they would respond saying, "Thou hast proven thyself worthy! I shall declare us friends!" ^^
I like how the Ai got a sneaky scouting of your base that you didn’t notice and immediately snuck away.
when did the Ai do this?
@@creamcheese569 I think he's talking about 14:26 on the farms
@@phavelin2032 oh ok thanks
6:34 too
Magenta and cyan. You gotta love that early 80's CGA graphics palette.
Also big neon aesthetics
riiiide the synthwave duuuuude
Purple and light blue
More of these please! I've been getting into AOE2 recently and your video's have been helping a lot. The Spirit of the Lockdown! 😅
*Spirit of the Lawckdown
@@SpiritOfTheLawckdown it is 😂
@@SpiritOfTheLaw same here man I really got into aoe2 again used to paly it as a kid with my mom, definitely feels amazing to use longbows again 😂
Same zXd
0:50 "Everything else is just standard for a 1v1"
✓ Allow Cheats
hmmmm
Yeah wtf
Me and my friends play a lot with AI and one big issue I have with the AI is that it focuses on a specific player. After destroying player 4 for example, player 4 hides and makes a second base behind an ally, the AI will attempt to attack said player instead of going over the ally first. It also beings retreating before the player has been destroyed. It may be destroying your base and randomly decides to retreat even though no forces are defending it.
Till hard, it retreats, if you keep hardest or extreme as difficulty.. it will make sure you can't hide anywhere on map
Since I played a lot of AI vs AI matches a few explanation of what is going on here.
At first since you reach feudal a lot faster and make some military he thinks is losing, so he choose to make a tower (randomly protecting one resource, this time he has luck with the tower) and go fast castle, he still do some counter units if he can, like the spearman.
Then in castle he made a couple of knights to counter your skirs, and now he has 3 options in a map like arabia
1º very passive boom, making 2nd and 3rd TC as soon as possible, some civs make a castle (not khmer) and some civs make even a 4th tc, and wait to fight in imperial.
2º Very aggresive crossbow/skirks push with rams, they delay their tcs making a Siege Workshop before any tc, this sometimes can be very scary, sometimes they got stuck way too much time in a random building and is a fail.
3º Sadly, a veeery slow knight "rush" before the last updates the AI would attack with knights as soon as he make 4 to 8 knights, the new AI only attack with at least 20+, that is very very passive, and this is the worst strat for the new AI.
Since he already did a couple of knights to counter your skirks, he choose the option 3, which is the worst, so you could recover very easy from the scout rush fail and win easy.
Very sad, Khmer AI is pretty decent, he likes to go with a nice non-elite elephant attack in early imperial and when you switch to Halberdier/monks or something like that to counter, instead of upgrade the elephants they arrive with a full army of double ballista heavy scorpions which is perfect for your counter, in AI vs AI matches this "trick" works very well.
Please tell me this is part of your PHD.
@@DudeWatIsThis Obviously it is. You don't learn knowledge that advanced during your undergraduate's degree.
I don't think the tower is random. Lately I've seen the AI tower its gold but never its woodlines or berries. Sometimes it does this pre-emptively, too, which is not always a good idea because you lack the stone for two TCs as soon as you reach castle age.
@@BramVanroy Not 100% random, they usually like to tower the gold if they are gathering gold, with is the most common scenario, even if the gold is not exposed at all, but the AI can also tower their stone (if they want to fast castle and make a castle as soon as reach castle they can be gathering more stone than gold in feudal) or wood if they choose something like a skirk rush for feudal, in that case they usually have all the villagers in wood and food anyway.
When they do the tower pre-empively, in my experience is because they wanted to fight in feudal but at some point they realise that are behind and change to a castle age strat, funny enough both AI can reach the same conclusion at the same time, but usually only one make a tower and the other looks like see itself ahead, if they do a tower they always put 2 on stone as soon as they click the castle tech, but as you said the lack of stone sometimes delay the 3rd TC, the stone for the 2nd is usually not a problem
OMG you should contact Viper as soon as possible and tell him all of that. Pure gold info.
We need more of these gameplay videos.
Yeah can you teach us math
We do not. It is just not why I come to watch this channel. SotL is just an average player, but the math video's are very interesting.
@@chtyldubreux5950 nothing wrong with watching an average player. I'd pick entertaining over skilled any day
@@chtyldubreux5950 Its the witty commentary that's entertaining
@@chtyldubreux5950 what rating is he? seems more than average but I'm a noob
Spirit of the Law: *makes videos on farm placement optimization*
also Spirit of the Law: *places willy nilly T90 farms*
Recently discovered your content.. And i'm on a binge.. really good! Keep 'em coming dude!
Bro, I found him late last year and have watched everything now. SOTL is the GOAT
@@icecoldchilipreppers yup.. He really is!!
Last time I was this early, you had to reseed farms manually every single time!
¿Age of Empires 1?
ӨПΛGЯӨ DΣ ΛƧΣDIӨ D.Σ. AoE2 prior to the Conquerors expansion also didn’t allow you to queue up farms.
Last time I was this earlier he didn't have am intro!
(remember the community ones?)
@@KorKhan89 yeah and conquerors was released in 2001. So we had option to do it for the last 19 years.
sleepeR And yet, I was there. I was there 20 years ago, in the days of yore when the Spanish and Mayans and Aztecs were as yet undreamed of, and no man dared train gunpowder units without first researching each appropriate technology (in addition to chemistry). I still think with horror upon the many moments when I was forced to abandon an attack on an enemy base because my villagers lacked the sense to plant their crops anew without explicit direction from the king himself. I still hear the maracas of doom when I close my eyes at night.
25:22 RIP Castle with the mangonels friendly fire
That was very painful to see XD
I was even expecting it and wondering why he didn't pay more attention to his mangos in this situation.
So happy to see SOTL upload a gameplay video after a long time...
We love you so much. Your channel means so much to me and my friend group. Your videos make long drives so much better. Thank you for doing all these videos and putting so much love into them.
Nice video! Since you like optimization, you can optimize your build order (a lot) by going up 21 pop instead of 22. Don't make the 2 farms. With 21 pop up you will have enough food to sustain scout and vil production, horse collar and double bit axe just when you arrive at feudal, than you can start dropping farms. Also, instead of going 1 lumbercamp, as soon as you finish your second boar, get 5 vils and make a new one. It will be more efficient. Aim for 10 lumberjacks until you click to castle, the odds are you won't need more than that. I think you have the skill to pull that BO with just little training.
This is an incredible useful tip! Thanks man!
My OCD means I just can't bear to build farms until I have horse collar researched, perhaps 1 or 2 is fair enough but any more give me an icky feeling seeing only that 175 food
@ToniProductions No I don't have medical OCD granted. Do you? Do you have to build your AOE houses in neat rows ?
@ToniProductions it doesn't mean you have to be a total twat either but there we go
@ToniProductions it's fake just like anxiety is :-)
Hey dude, I absolutely love all of your videos. I'd like to support you financially because you make quality content that is well scripted, well spoken, as researched as "Engineering Explained", with a hint of humor once in a while. All surrounding one of my favorite video games with such a small user base. When I get my finance situation together, expect a donation or two. Keep up the incredible work, I look forward to you covering AOE4!
I sincerely enjoy watching SOTL play. I wish he'd upload more of his games.
Please do make a lot more video's like this, I really love the content. It's so nice to listen to you explain everything that is really nice!
Hey bro i finally learned how to play aoe thanks to you.. Your guide videos are the best
hello im new to age of empires although i have played a lot when i was a kid on the ps2 i still consider myself knew as im enjoying the game in a newer way and i really like how your channel made me aware of those things i can enjoy more like build structures and empire choices i really like what you and your channel represent.
8:40-10:00 The game was pretty much decided at that point already. The AI did have a time window for a comeback when reaching Castle Age, but it was on defense already.
Ok I'm only going to watch this video and then back to work.
"Hayasaka lied as naturally as she breathed"
That's what we all say...
You working again or what?
Legends say he still will be on youtube for 3 hours
@@icecoldchilipreppers from home.
Before this video I would bet my money on the extreme AI. You’re way better than I expected. You played that perfectly I swear. GG.
This dude's voice is beautiful! Clean and super soothing. Oh and the gameplay is off the hook
Please do more content like this; it's pretty great! Happy Easter btw
Ive been playing with it a bit as well. Definitely seems more passive than I'm used to it being. Kinda freezes for a while when its first strategy fails - At 25:00 I think he had a bigger army, but was too scared of the castle to take out the mangos.. Yet still stayed in their range. Those things put thousands of damage on his town center hiding units. Still some work to do on this one, I guess.
25:27 Spirit of the Daut.
"SpiritOfTheLaw1"
Reality is often disappointing...
Anyone noticed how the AI keeps sending its army back and forth? It sends the army to attack, then immediately retreats, then immediately attacks again and it keeps doing that over and over again while getting shot at and doing almost no damage. Also, notice how the AI army just stands under the town centre at 28:15 without doing anything. I think they might have gone a little overboard with that updated retreat functionality. The AI seems to be retreating all the time now and it uses its army extremely inefficiently.
Yeah I especially noticed when it had a pikeman about to take out one of the undefended mangonels, but decided to retreat it rather than go for a good unit trade. I think knowing when it's worth it to lose units to kill some others is one of the big AI weaknesses right now.
I guess if a Castle is nearby AI units wont go and suicide themselves like in the past. So that is a plus. But the side affect of that was what we saw here - AI units retreating while the Mangonel was slaughtering them all. So frustrating to watch.
Until we have real machine learning, we will see these kinds of "programmed" behaviours. Maybe in 2030, we will have real AI.
@@KamleshMallick I think the problem is that it does not evaluate risk. Sure it doesn't go under the Castle to fight anymore, but it was a Castle at its doorstep and the bigger threat was the Mangonel threatening the main economy. It seems it simply retreats when it doesn't feel it has enough numbers to overwhelm a position, instead of assigning weight to doing certain things even if it costs units.
So I play exclusively against the Extreme AI (either 1v1 or in groups 2v2,3v3 etc). Here's a little explanation of what I've seen:
Based on the map size, the AI will choose it's strategy. Medium and Larger maps (short rush distances), the AI will prioritize fast castle rush. You played on such a map. (Note: They glitch with hybrid maps as they won't use land units to attack ships). When rushing Castle Age, they have 2 tech paths.
1. Blacksmith Market -> Buy resources -> Fast Castle Age
2. Archery Range -> Stable -> Slower Castle Age
2.1 Archer Skirm Rush
2.2 Knight / Scout Rush
Since you forced the AI to build military buildings you pushed it into path #2 - and taking path 2.1 would be bad against your scouts. Hence it moving to 2.2
If you had not rushed the AI - and they went to path #2, they would most likely hit you pre-castle with Archer Skirm.
It's next objective is to hit Imp, have ~ half the pop as vills, then pump out units. Since you put pressure on the AI throughout the game, it was unable to do that.
I'd challenge you to do the same test (any non water map) and free boom to Imp, then try to fight the AI. It will be a different experience.
Either way - love your videos!! Sub'd
The game gets really wild if you boom up and let the AI reach imp, but that's not what the Age of Empires is about.
Early attacks can and will still happen, it is up to the player to react to it appropriately. The AI fared slightly better but still struggles against someone who knows what to do, I also never see it making "building walls" which would have slowed down SOTL.
I feel like when he plays he does equations in his head at the same time
I know you like to use Arabia as your standard go-to since it's likely the most played map, but for vs AI I'd really like to see some Arena action, (maybe 1v2) so you can worry less about walling to safely boom and fend them off come Castle Age
It would be great to hear more about the maps in the 1v1 map pool and what civs/units are good on them, how to control key areas etc.
I really like how spirit plays
Theres almost never double clicking on the same spot
I'm struggling against the new Extreme AI, thanks for the video, now I have a major reason to rush more
Rush is the damn easiest way.. I have done it and posted some content
I learned to love this game late in life (for a gamer) with 24 i first played aoe 2 (the DE). And ir was love at the first sight
Been waiting for more gameplay really excited!!!!
Haven't even watched the video yet but I already know SotL won comfortably. The guy is too good and never loses to anyone apart from insanely skilled human players on occasion.
Shout out to AIs, playing on uncomfortable thrones so you don't have to 🙏🙏🙏
Whenever I get tired of Extreme beating me to a pulp, I use a cheesy thrush to heal my ego.
Same😂
Great video, happy Easter SOTL
I knew it, I was saying in my head "building castles with 2 villagers and with mangonels shooting everywhere? Yep, that won't work"
Cool to see some gameplay again!
Was watching the extreme AI play a game just now and I noticed it pushing deer towards TC in dark age. That's pretty cool :)
Hey spirit can you do an updated version of the older top 5 vids and civilizations overviews
"Hey guys, Spirit of the Law here. Today, we are reading this in my voice."
@16:24 "I think I do want one scout. Just 1."
I will call him Jerry, and he will lead our army to victory!
Yes, spirit of the stream. You have returned.
You can be a streamer now Spirit, it's a good step that you show you're gameplay in a video to the audience. You don't need to be a pro to be an expert that you are on the topic.
I love to watch the video on this game, continue to shoot further) I really like:)
@subhadeep mandal I am very sorry that you are so stupid, if you don’t like it, then don’t look, it’s not written for such small minds as yours
I'd like to see spirit play ladder games.
@1:50 "[Going archers against the AI] is a bit of a cheesy strategy."
Agreed, but a lot of those changes to the extreme AI appear to directly address some of that. Maybe it's not so effective a strategy anymore?
Edit: *Later* Ah, you beat me to it.
Hey SOTL, I came up with an equation that will give you the optimum ratio of villagers on food and wood to get the required resources to tech up in the least amount of time. It's just an approximation, but I thought it might be a cool idea for a video for you to make. I've tested it in AoE DE and so far it's pretty accurate. Please let me know if you're interested and maybe we can work out some better applications.
Love your content and I've been watching your videos since you first started!
Please share it in a blog or something
I may not be SOTL. But I AM very interested!
@@icecoldchilipreppers cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384786878873862144/695822683689975878/AOE_equations.PNG
cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/384786878873862144/696866529618165800/curve.PNG
Bob its just a picture
@Bob Not harmful unless you don't like graphs and letters in math equations XD
I did a fun little experiment with the AI earlier on a ludicrous map, I decided to go Goths and see how well it would react if I went all-in on Huskarls. The AI in turn built a ton of siege workshops and barracks, and spammed out both onagers and champions like there was no tomorrow. The second AI I tried that on was playing Vikings, same map, so it built 12 castles all in a line and spammed out berserkers.
I'm not sure how well it counters mixed armies, when I played Mongols with a mix of champions and Mangudai it went down relatively quickly, but if you're leaning heavily on one type or another it seems able to counter.
There is a portrait of the ultimate fight between the Law and the Chaos
I’m pretty sure the AI is NEVER this flustered and confused when I play it on moderate.
Also, I was waiting for that onager to hit your castle foundation. So much evil satisfaction.
Saying gg to an Ai, Spirit of the Law is GOD.
I click when spirit of the law uploads
God your videos are so good! i dont even play AOE and love watching your videos
Rewatching this and just noticed Spirit said "gg" at the end, to the AI lol
When will you tell me how to find your music SOTL
On his chanel
His intro song is linked in description as well as his own creation. If you asked for that
Ancient Chinese Secret
Here is how you can beat the new Extreme AI! th-cam.com/video/o-Kh1TN3lZ8/w-d-xo.html
You should do a rematch. I play almost exclusively against Extreme AI and, while it is easy to beat still, in this match it went for a a fast castle which is very rare. Most of the time it will do a straight flush, or a drush into archers. Game was basically over when it went up to feudal so late. Good game though, was fun to watch.
Ai in Aoe and similar games is like Ai in Chess, If humans are to get a chance it must hold back. So its mostly about striking a balance between it being challenging in a fun way and it crossing the unbeatable line.
Yeah that's why I gonna respect that A.I from SC2 the one that actually plays ranked and all.
objectively I think a video is smoother without a form of intro. however, i did miss hearing your intro song this time.
Watched the extreme AI walk military unit after military unit under a castle to die instantly. It was very extreme.
Thank you Spirit for being so nice person.
I wish you would have lot more subscribers.
I love your videos and I wish I could donate you but I can't(Im 13). I really thank you for making best Age of Empires content. Thank you for being here for everyone.
Compared to the HD AI, the new definitive edition seems overall less aggressive. I actually find it much easier to beat. I only play at standard/moderate difficulty normally though. The old HD AI was certainly vulnerable to early aggression though, and had its own easy exploits.
Yay more gameplay!
Love your content
It's really good to watch it just to get a feeling how to play. i usually get the dark age really good but then I am just like "What now?"
SOTL: has 190 pop
Proceeds to build 7 houses
23:30
I find that the AI does vary their playstyle up every once in a while. I actually got archer rushed in fuedal once.
True. I got double militia rushed in a 1v2, as well. It would be interesting to know what makes it decide to do different strategies.
Interesting game to watch. The AI played quite well initially, and it could've put you under lots of pressure if it attacked you with all it's knights after your initial failed scout rush, yet for some reason it decided not to. Its biggest issue was trying to preserve all its units instead of risk losing them to take yours out.
Barbarian is now available for definitive edition!
I have never used voobly. How does barbarian compare to this ai?
@@icecoldchilipreppers Barbarian is the best ai of age of empires 2 and now is available for definitive edition. Is a mod
@@sergiop253 I know all that. But HOW us it better?
@@icecoldchilipreppers You can download it and you will check the differences. I put them to play one on one and the barbarian won the most games
@@sergiop253 damn you really dont want to answer huh
Back in the days of original age of Kings I made the AI resign after only a small longbowman rush in castle age, still scratching my head about that one
I think once AOE 4 comes out A LOT of new and young people are going to be coming to the franchise and your channel will probably profit off it a lot. Lots of people are going to be starting channels about AOE when it comes out but your already one step ahead of them.
Scouts are usually made at 21 pop. I think you committed way too hard on feudal. I would suggest scout into skirms only if you are going to micro very heavily your scouts. Also you should only make around 3 or 4 scouts (plus the initial one if he's still alive) and 4 skirms just to clean the spearmans. Otherwise you are going to fall behind in castle. But still the """extreme""" ia is really passive and doesn't rush almost at all
Hi SOTL.. Can you do a video on how much more units (same units with same upgrades) you need to win while fighting uphill. Will it be 25%+25% or 25%x25% or something in between?Or less than 25%?
That's a good question. Can be extended into something interesting like - Can 6 archers beat 6 skirmishers without micro?
Will you do the next attempt with no rush time? That will very interesting. It was a nice Video 👍🏼.
The DE IA is playing more defensively.. Yesterday I tried 1v1, the hard and hardest always do a rush with archers or knights. Then starts an army of skirmisher, pike, mangonel, etc. The extreme IA, if you don´t rush, when it hit Imperial Age, it will sent to you and large army of knight or castle unit and siege then keep upgradting theme to paladin (if it has)
Nice game.
Side note: probably should have clicked Conscription before Logistica
Seems like getting the AI that last little bit of the way towards being on the level of a skilled human is way more difficult than the first long stretch.
I don't know how or why the AI was so passive in this game. I just started playing the game a month ago and when I play at Moderate or Hard then I keep getting rushed by AI military as soon as it hits Castle and it just doesn't stop from there.
Getting rushed in castle is pretty passive. A proper 20 pop scout rush can see units at your door in half that time
Here's how you can make Byzantines viable in high level play
Teutons, Byzantines, Goths, Italians
Teutons for the healing fortress and other uses
Byzantines for their 50% heal speed bonus for the teuton's hf formation - cataphracts(heal regularly at the hf) - cheap trash
Goths for their anti archer huskarl(heal at hf regularly) and other uses
Italians for their castle's elite crossbow - and most importantly the condottiero for anti gunpowder capabilities of the whole team.
i like to see you play against extreme ai in arena with out rushing
looking pretty good
I would like to see you play the AI on other civilizations, the Goth AI in particular was really aggressive in my last game against it.
Damn that's nice. I'll try it.
If only I had it.
Had what? 20$ for the game? X)
I just thought it was weird that his knights run back and forth between their town center and your mangonels, instead of just destroying them
I think it won't be too hard to also program the AI to avoid losing fights based on counters with his knights " like at 15:25" and instead the ai would fall back to fog of war and circle around to to find other targets. Sobascially yoou just make it go around attack anything and escaoe from spearmen
It could be interesting to see 2 pros vs 4 or 5 extreme AI.
*sighs* I'd gotten too used to extra rss, tried a map with regular rss and a slightly harder AI and absolutely beansed it.
There’s an AI being developed through Machine Learning for Starcraft 2 that can beat professional players. Maybe that technology should be tried on AOE2
I wonder if anyone's ever done a Tool Assisted run of AOE2 against an AI to try to figure out what might be theoretically possible in an AI.
Such as an AI that has the thinking and foresight of a human, but the insane micro and ability to think/order units hundreds of times a second. What might actually be possible when it comes to playing the game
Damn........ they got really good now. Soon we will have individual units dodging onager shots. F.
my probelm with the ai currently on all the diffculites is it will make units but not attack with them. it waits for you, sometimes it will unload once you come over other times it just defends and sits but either way it waits.