Extreme DE AI vs Barbarian (AI Tournament Semi-Finals)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Doing a tournament between all the different custom AIs is an idea I've had in the back of my mind for years, and I was excited to find out last month it's a real thing put together by a group called "AI Scripters". This is a game from the semi-finals of a tournament called King of Arabia which features a legendary custom AI as well as one that should be very familiar.
AI Scripters twitch: / aiscripters
AI Scripters discord: / discord
Download any custom AI here: forums.aiscrip... extract and place in the AI game folder ("AoE2DE" - "resources" - "_common" - "ai"); or download the entire King of Arabia AI pack mod: www.ageofempir...
My Patreon: / spiritofthelaw
I think they should have called the tournament King of ArabAI
If it was in spanish you could go with ArabIA
Or King of ArAIbia.
@@lucasgarcia5427 It works in French, and most other Romance languages too I think.
Edit: just French and Spanish
@@robin9740 rly? I think it also works in italian and portuguese
@@lucasgarcia5427 Oh you're totally right! I used Google-translate to verify. Turns out you can't even trust it for single words/abreviations.
Also in Romanian, which is also a Romance language
5:26 I like how the AI scouted the TC, immediately said to itself "Scary object found!" and noped the way out of there
I too am afraid of town centers
Debugging mode not deactivated.
Large number of players could use that method.
@@krishna1.097 ?
@@srbishkrst So basically programmers use a method called "debugging" by which we find errors in code. You just show output every stage which is vulnerable to errors and find where it makes mistakes. You deactivate debugging once it works successfully.
Me: "You can't counter knights with skirms"
Barbarian Ai: "hold my beer"
*Hold my electrons
At some point, we’ll talk about AoE 2’s AI as we talk about chess AI. “In the year 2034, no human was capable of defeating the AoE’s AI.”
Woaaaaa hey Mike
@@bobeyay Hey, Bobey.
The new AI is already so OP, I think it might happen one day
2034? You're being extremely generous towards humans. I mean there is an AI which can defeat any player in Starcraft already and that isn't that much different than AoE2.
There’s AI’s that can do that already. They just haven’t used them in AoE2.
Alphastar mops the floor with pretty much anyone in SC2. I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t work in AoE2 too. It’s just not as popular. AFAIK they even limit the APM to human levels, otherwise the AI could micro with like 40.000 APM, and good luck beating that lol.
Love the barbarian AI telling us what it's doing
They all do that. That's the debugging chat log. AI scripters often keep it on to be able to see exactly what it's thinking so they can tell exactly what stuff needs fixing.
Scary object!
Imagine you're in dark age, trying to build your early economy, thinking it is too early to be attacked and then you read "Enter combat mode"
Other RTS IPs: literary dead.
AoE: we plan to roll out Skynet by 2027, 2030 in worst case
if warcraft reforged hadnt been such a massive disaster it could have been the rebirth of the warcraft rts franchise.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516
Sorry, I'm not a fan of:
1)Activision
2)discussing alternate realities where nazis won
3)Activision:\
@@TheArklyte
Understandable.
Idk Deepmind AI for SC is pretty advanced. Probably more advanced then this.
@@TheArklyte But the original Warcraft games were so great! I played them way back when Blizzard was practically an indie studio, so I guess I still view the franchise through the ross-tinted glasses of my childhood. A shame that the company degenerated so much... :(
in 2030:
hey guys AI of the law here and we are gonna play against another AI today
Imagine AI youtubers like that!
@@Muenni tbf there's "TH-camrs" with a generic formula and simple enough text that an AI could prolly do just as well.
Script of the law here!
@@matt_9112 Have you read texts written by AIs? They're not quite good for the moment XD
@@krankarvolund7771 have you seen videos on "lifehacks" like Wohoo or Troom Troom? Language might be a bit off, but content wise the bots got this XD
Barbarian AI isn't even at full strength in DE due to it missing some userpatch functions. Rehoboam is stronger than it for that reason, but I believe it remains the strongest AI on userpatch (non DE)
A fixed version of Barbie was used, Rehoboam's micro quite makes it stronger than Barbarian in a direct match-up though Barbarian is the more well-rounded AI.
@@muetzenchaot Fixed in terms of making it compatible for DE without crashing or bugging, yes. However TheMax still hasn't released the official DE version of Barbarian he's been working on. I'd be very interested the rematch of these 2 AI once that happens
“Old show battlebots”
Why you gotta do me like that. Now I feel ancient because I watched the original run of that show.
Wow, this is insane!
Que haces aquí bro? Hahaha juegas AoE?
Wait, you said it reminded you of an "Old Show" called Battlebots...
Battlebots is still on, you know.
Does not necessarily mean it's not old
I assume he is talking about the original show, but there is the new reboot that has been going for a few years and is structured much better
"theMax made Barbarian"
excuse me what
being top 20 in the world wasn't enough for him?????
If you can't be #1 yourself, make an AI to do it for you XD
Maybe that is reason he is so good, for AI he has to take apart all kind of strategies so he learns some things too probably.
Did anybody else find that in the last few months the Extreme AI has gotten better? I'm not sure how to explain it but it seems to be building bigger more agressive military bases close to me than it did before and it also seems to be making better tactical retreat decisions and team attacks (when against multiple AI)
Yes you are totally correct, they keep on improving the extreme AI. They improve it almost each patch.
TheViper was able to win against 4 extreme AI when DE came out. Now it's "only" 3 (and he did not try for a long time)
Also, if you check the description of each new patch, you can see what they improved.
Yeah you're right, training with them also improve my gameplay and elo too.
Since now they're punishing my mistakes hard.
I had to downgrade my training AI, somehow "difficult" became serious.
I remember the AI tourneys in AOK heaven and we would watch them thru recorded games. Barbarian and Juggernaut were the big bois then
I think it is cool that the AI that comes with the game is so close to the best custom ones. Usually stock AIs are nowhere near what modders make. Also I would be interested if we ever get machine learning hooked up with aoe, how strong could it become.
Well, the devs announced they'll make a "merciless" difficulty post-launch in AoE 4, it will use machine learning to learn from the players, the plan is for it to become unbeatable ^^
Which is not that farfetched, apparently there's already an AI that is unbeatale in SC 2.
This was a really fun video! I love the idea of a fully AI tournament and cannot wait to see more
"this old show called BattleBots you may have heard about"
Netflix has the newest seasons (from 20...15?).
IIRC the Barabarian Ai was even more powerful on the userpatch bc it allowed the Ai to micro single units which the DE engine(which is just a reskin of the original 1999 engine) doesnt allow.
User patch features like direct unit control work on DE (it's a big part of why the AI jumped so much between HD and DE). The reason Barbarian, and other AI like Promi, may have seemed harder on Voobly was that it cheated when set to "hardest" difficulty by getting extra resources. In this tournament that obviously isn't allowed, so they may look a little weaker than you remember.
Imagine you make a game in the 90's, and people are not only still playing it, they program their own AI and turn it into an Autobattler!
This actually also happened to Rogue, a game from 1980.
(Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, a modernized version of Rogue, has an AI vs. AI arena.)
Very, very cool. Im instantly a fan of AIvsAI game play.
This is super cool. If you’re allowed to upload another match, I’d love to see you do a similar video for the finals.
One thing I’m curious about is what limitations, if any, these AI have. I remember there was a ML AI made for SC2 and I believe they placed a limit on how often it could move the viewport/camera. I wonder if these AI have limitations like that or if it is a case of whatever the scripting interface allows.
The SC2 AI had to be limited because it was nothing like these AI's. These AI are basically just elaborate scripts. AlphaStar was a deep learning neural network made by Google for research purposes. It had APM limitations in order to ensure a fair playing field against human opponents, so it couldn't simply out-micro them. It still went on to best the pros in that game. Although AI's like that are very expensive, which is why they're never used for gaming. AI scripts like these are a whole bunch of instructions and conditions, whereas AlphaStar actually learned the game on its own through literally millions of iterations of trial and error.
Barbarian: My target player is 1.
Me: *OH NOOOOOOOO*
Wait, was the text at the side TheMax giving commands in real time, or was that scripted?
That's just for debugging. Most AI creators have the AI chat to itself while making decisions so they can see when things are triggering at the wrong time or not working as intended.
What?! I was just about to request more AI videos yesterday :-D. Awesome!
Thanks for showing us this video, SoTL. 🙏
I had NO Idea that AI Developers had a specific Tournament. I think it's a great idea! 👍✨
The Devs can improve their coding / scripting skills and make the game better at the same time. Brilliant! 😃
M 🦘🏏😎
Wow I love this..I wish someone would cast the AI tournaments!!
TheViper just cast the final on his channel yesterday. The rest of the tournament has been cast on the ai scripters channel
I love how the Barbarian AI place the houses, all neatly spaced evenly XD
Never watched battlebots but in the UK we use to have a similar show called Robot Wars which was pretty fun and made a small comeback but the BBC only did 2 seasons of a reboot.
That kind of sucks as it would be nice to have more combat robots to watch ;p
There's a lot of little tournaments on youtube
For all of us UK folks, ITS ROBOT WARS SOTL!!!!
YESSSSS! I've wanted this for so long!!
Battlebots is still going and is bigger then ever! If you're outside the US, seasons 1 and 2 are on Netflix. If you're inside the US, season 6 filmed two months ago will drop on discovery in December!
Thanks for telling me about them that's something I am definitely interested in checking out.
I wonder if you could generate a game between AIs, as just a sequence of commands, that you can play back later if you wish, without even booting up the game. All the visuals are just for us mere mortals. It might not make for a very exiting tournaments, but it would make testing how AIs are doing, much faster.
hey spirit, just here to let you know i love watching ai based content, i find it very interesting
Hey a battlebots shout out nice. So hyped for the next season.
Battlebots is 100% still taping new shows, hosted by my boy Chris Rose.
Damn, I wish I knew about this community back when I was in my AI-scripting phase, I would have been able to make more AIs other than ones that spam petards and whatnot. Maybe I would have grown up to be writing competitive AIs who rush flaming camels instead of doing what I'm doing now
What's stopping you from picking it up now?
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Grad school :p and after graduation, work
Very fun video! I hope we get to see more of this
I'm just waiting until the Deep Blue vs. Kasparov version of this, when an AI will be able to beat a pro player of the game.
They can already do it on SC II. And the devs announced that they'll release a merciless difficulty which will use machine learning to become unbeatable in the fourth game ^^
@@krankarvolund7771 I wouldn't count on that. Deep learning AI's are very expensive, so Microsoft would only invest into something like that if it served some other purpose as well (which maybe it will idk). AlphaStar was a Google research project, and it's already moved on to working on the protein folding problem in biology now.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn Maybe something less advanced then. They anounced it at least, after release, wait and see ^^
I'd love to see more of this
These ai are so good, I would love to see them Wall it would make such a big change.
Funfact the US military is a sponsor of this tournament.
They're after the ultimate farming meta.
For real?
What is your source? I didn't fin anything about that ^^'
But if they are, it's not for the AI, they've also created an esports team, it's just propaganda to enlist more youngs in the army ;)
@@GigaBoost No lol. The US military is interested in AI, but not these kinds of AI. These AI are basically just elaborate scripts. The AI they're interested in are deep learning neural network AI's (which incidentally there is one of in gaming - AlphaStar for Starcraft 2, which was made by Google as part of a research project, which already beat the pros there).
Incrível. Thx Man!
First like and comment!
I love these AI matches, Spirit. Keep them coming!!
This was so cool! Would love to see more of this
I feel vindicated in my chopping of straggler trees! These crazy strong bots also do it early! Eat your heart out, T90!! >:*(
(jkjk love to all)
How do they prevent an arms race of who can exploit other AI's blind spots better consequently being not very good against human opponents? Or is this exactly the point, to figure out which AI is best against other AI's?
Pure guessing from someone with zero experience with this field:
-The goal is to build the best AI, and building a generally good one seems more effective for that than one only focused on one weird strategy. 'Be the Viper, not the Hoang', or something like that.
-Many of the AI blind spots are (probably) blind spots precisely because it's hard to script for those scenario's, so it might be tricky to build one that is effective in them. (And if you do find a script that knows how to handle those fights, others might do the same.
Are the AIs omniscient in these matches or do they have to scout? I remember some dev explaining that the AI just acts like it doesn't see stuff
They know the total number of military and civilian units of the enemy but not which units. Apart from this they only know what they scout.
@@thewashh thanks!
@@C00Cker They get to know what a human also can know. That is all. For example a human can always check the game stats. So the AI can too.
Cheating is only done by The Conquerers Ai on hardest difficulty I believe. None of the rest cheat, which is amazing.
1:03 Battle Bots are controlled by humans?! You shattered all my illusions in this one sentence ;(
One sided battle all along, barbarian ai dominated without any question.
Never watched Battlebots, but now I'm feeling some nostalgia for Robot Wars.
Please use Capture Age for the next game?
Yes, would be interesting to see their K/D and APM and stuff
That would be nice for the macro part of the game (iddle TC) as well as the k/d
Very interesting, I had no idea there was ai as advanced as this in aoe. Does it work on team games? I think my friends and I would have a lot of fun fighting ai like this since we mainly just do coop anyway.
Most of them including these two does :)
I don't think Barbarian works with the new civs but with the older ones it works fine
"It reminds me of this OLD show called Battlebots"
Me waiting for the 2021 Season to be aired : ......um
Btw the "Chomp" battlebot had some automated features in it
Surprise winner of the tournament: Age of Conquerers AI!
The Technocore has submitted their entry
Will you review the new civs (Bohemians and Poles)?
It would be great to have all of these AIs allowed to casually hang out in the ladder. So we can know their real ELO relative to humans.
That would be awesome!
One problem though, as spirit said in this video, if yiu know you play against the AI, and are used to it, you know what strat to do to win.
If you don't know you play against AI, it's elo would be higher i guess.
@@benjamindonnot3902 Maybe there could be a way to have them be anonymous
I love Battlebots! the latest season with Endgame and Walker Chomp was awesome!
Hey I was playing against the extreme AI and then suddently they had a blue and white car with machine guns. How do I counter this?
The AI must have advanced to the fifth age 11
Why speed up the game so much? I guess I'll have to continue to fall asleep to T90's videos! :P Thanks for the content!
*Of course* the match had to be China vs Mongolia. XD Those two people NEVER got along well, man!
Bud _goddamn!_ That "Barbarian" AI is really terrifying! Have you ever fought and won against it, Spirit?
Apparently, it's not even updated for DE, that terryfing AI is two years outdated and have problems XD
@@krankarvolund7771 _Boy, when that shit gets updated,_ *we're gonna have to get this AI into the Round Table of Black Air Force Activity, **_cause that shit is just built different._*
Damn, i still cannot beat AI on hard
Spirit, what's your take in the Resonance bot AI from HD?
I still play against it on HD. When I saw it micro my jaw dropped. I haven't seen it on DE, though.
You need to comment on more matches. It's peak rainy day content
more of these. i find these more interesting than player matches
Ah btw, they have also a TH-cam channel, so you may want to link that too! @Spirit of The Law
»Odsblood! I accidentially resigned by mistake« - That's quite a lame excuse for an AI.
Battle Bots but Age of Empires Edition is pretty great way to describe it haha
OMG yes, I didnt know I needed AI scripting tournament
I was very impressed with Rehoboam, but I hadn't heard about Beginner
How can you play with the barbarian ai on aoe2de? If download it, select it, and try to use the extreme difficulty, you get an error.
Barbarian ai doesn't support DE so it cannot use extreme difficulty. try hardest
@@Tempires Nevertheless, in this video we see the barbarian ai playing on extreme.
@@jomnix Tournament has made some changes to ai., this may include support of extreme ai so DE ai can use it. There is no official version of barbarian ai for DE as themax hasn't released it. You can download ais used in this tournament from aiscripters' thread for tournament (only for registered users) . my previous comment got deleted so i won't link to it
Such crisp and informative graphics too; when is this game coming out.. ?
The winning ai in the final just plays Frank's only. Not fair IMO
Agreed. The ability to pick civs in the tournament were chosen to allow more ai's to particapate as only a few ai's play all civs. Even barbie does not play all civs as it cannot play with or against the 6 DE civs. Ideally you would have the scripters do a draft or let both scripters chose civs when one of the ai's cannot go random which is also on the cards for the next tournaments :)
Why do people keep saying Extreme AI is 1000 ELO? The Extreme AI beats me every single time, while enemies in 1000 ELO are around my level. There is no way any of the guys in my ranked could beat the Extreme AI, unless you factor in tailored-strategies for it instead of playing against it like you would play against a human opponent. No tower rushing though. Tower rushing breaks it.
I kinda wanna see how the other AI won it's match versus barbarian. Think that would be interesting
link to 10:43 AI named beginner? Google is being tricky with the results page
Spirit, why do transport ships with 20 units in sometimes unload with a long line of units?
the barbarian AI seems more proactive but clumsier whereas the aoe2 AI is largely reactive it seems.
barbarian AI is outdated, DE isn't technically even supported(themax never released updated ai). Host of tournament says SOTL isn't doing good exposure of AIscription by showing DE ai vs barbarian..
Request a "Spirit of The Law vs Barbarian" video
Look how the blue houses are placed, they're build in a wall like formation.
1 barbarian AI vs 7 extreme hd AIs?
*SEMI FINALS* ... ok where are the finals?
is barbarian still in development in DE?
Themax hasn't give any update since 2019. DE isn't technically supported
Wrong, its favourite strategy isn't to go archers, it's to go all on berries.
SOTL is there any aoe 2 ai that can beat you consistently?
There's cheating AIs like "Beginner" that can be almost impossible to beat, even with 7 humans vs 1 AI. In terms of non-cheating ones, I haven't played against Rehoboam, but it looks pretty scary to micro against. With a bit more development, I think it could get to a point it's unbeatable, at least for me.
@@SpiritOfTheLaw How does the 'cheating' AI work? Does it get extra resources etc, or does it 'cheat' by using superhuman multitasking etc?
Yeah, by "cheating" I mean extra resources. Theoretically AI can cheat with their micro in small ways too, like detecting when you target a specific unit in a group and have just that one unit start moving away even before you fire at it. That's more debatable as "cheating", but is certainly using information that wouldn't be available to a human player.
Wait TheMax knows programming?
How to use Barbarian on Extreme difficulty though? Every time I picked that difficulty, it just behaves like the passive AI that only gather resources and won't build anything.
I was planning to test some other AI (Promi, The Horde, etc) against extreme AI but sadly they all don't work properly on Extreme difficulty.
Did you use DE civs? this will cause barbarian and many older ai's to bug out.
@@thewashh Of course I was using old civs.
@17:30 nearly 2000 gold but no market to buy ressouces :X
When can we get google deep mind to work on AOEII?
If the Promi AI isn't the best why it's the one that's official?
SoTL is a Battlebots fan confirmed.
The day they make a completely rush-proof AI is the day we'll have something really powerful.
AlphaStar in Starcraft can handle rushes.
@@ArawnOfAnnwn
Someone should teach it to play AoE2 then
@@DCdabest AlphaStar was a Google Deepmind project. It's not like any of the AoE AI's, or indeed like any AI that're typically used in gaming (even in other genres). Rather than being pre-scripted, it's a deep learning neural network that LEARNED the game from literally millions of rounds. AI's like this aren't used in gaming because they're VERY expensive. Google themselves only made it play Starcraft as a research project, and it has since gone on to make some notable headway in solving the protein folding problem in biology. No one is gonna make an AI like this just for a game, they'll only do so if it serves some other purpose. Microsoft has suggested they might try implementing such an AI in AoE 4 at some point, likely only because Microsoft also has its own AI research projects.
why do you say promi AI and title is DE ai ? arent those different?
HOW TO I GET THE barbarian TO WORK IN DE ??
Super interesting!!
Wait, did you just say that the Barbarian AI is scripted by a pro player named Max? Is he the same person as TheMax from team Suomi? That would be 🤯
Yes
I like this stuff
The other ais will NEVER be updated to play the new civs.