Black vs Zenithal Priming - HC 341
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this Hobby Cheating Tutorial, I take you through the good and the bad of priming in black vs. doing a zenithal prime. Both have strengths and weaknesses and we will explore them each here and talk about when and why we shoudl deploy each method. Hope you enjoy!
0:00 Intro
1:40 Overview
3:15 Best of Both
5:45 Zenithal Strengths
11:25 Black Primer Strengths
17:57 Summary
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Vince has made me like a five times better painter ten times faster than I could’ve done it without him. Dude’s an absolute pro
Wonderful to hear and always happy to help.
It's not just what he knows but the way he delivers it. Straight to the point and very well spoken.
Dude is an excellent teacher for SURE. It's like he's downloading his knowledge straight into your brain, and the only skill diff is time and practical experience.
Good stuff Vince, Keep banging out the great content, one of the most under rated Miniature painting channels. Baffles me you don't have a much larger following, shows to me people value entertainment over good concise information presented clearly and directly. I appreciate you man.
I apprecaite that very much. :)
Hear hear.
Your breakdowns are always the best. Thank you so much for never thinking any topic is "too basic" or should be common knowledge. You make this hobby so much more approachable and we're lucky to have you.
Could not have expressed my appreciation of Vince better.
Glad you like them! There is no such thing as too basic because we aren't born with any knowledge of the hobby, so there is always room to learn. :)
I love zenithal, but the best "dark metal" painting I've done so far has always been over flat black.If your first steps are heavy drybrushes, zenithal is counterproductive.
Well, heavy drybrushes can often set value sketches in the same way as a zenithal (as a matter of fact, you can zenithal with a drybrush). :)
I love watching these basic painting instruction videos. I appreciate that you have been remaking them! I still learn more every time I watch one and I find my next model actually improves because I refocus on the basics. Thanks and the audio is fabulous!!!!
Excellent. :)
Very nice and usefull explanation sir. You know how to talk in a YT video. I'm not an english native speaker, but I can understand you 100% with no difficulty. GJ!
Fantastic. :)
@@VinceVenturella
As always, your video is a wonderfully easy-to-understand tutorial, and I’m very glad you give the pros and cons for each type of priming. Best teacher out there, and thanks very much for your time and effort.
Glad it was helpful!
I like black priming because it hides when I miss parts of a model
It is the free shadow :)
“Doodads & Bajangles” I heard they are doing a reunion tour later this spring.
I can't wait!
To help see all the details on a black primed model I've been drybrushing with a medium grey. The details are more visible, but the basic concept of the black primer is not lost.
Great idea yes.
Watched your previous videos on priming and I can appreciate your efforts to make this video shorter but sweeter, thanks again Vince
My pleasure 😊
Video content: S+
Top Gun reference: S+
Big Flats reference: S+ and HeyWoah greatly approves
Love how broken down this video is. Extremely thorough, whilst also addressing the “but actually…” crowd within, really pushes this video into exemplary. Not that I’m an authority on teaching painting but as a high school teacher this is my opinion. These videos always reinforce my desire to catch the patreon individual lesson tier open or crossing my fingers you are gonna teach somewhere near NJ.
I’ve always had this question so this does help clarify other opinions I’ve heard and personal experience. Awesome job as always, Vince.
Thank you on all counts. :)
Great video! I typically strike a balance by priming with dark gray, then carefully airbrushing from the direction of the light source to preserve the shadows.
After HC 327 I had a feeling this video was coming. Thank you for the videos!
Happy to help. :)
So cool! This exactly answers the question I posed to Uncle Atom for “adepticon questions for painters “! Unrelated I’m sure, but quite the coincidence- it was a longer question (used up all the characters) and surely your technical take is what was needed. Thanks Vince!
Always happy to help.
Awesome video Vincey V. Very clearly explained.
Thanks!
Love the tip about taking a photo under bright light - can't wait to try it !
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve used both on a single mini: my Skitarii have a Rhinox to Wraithbone zenithal on their robes (for orange contrast paint), but the rest is primed black because of the metallics that are going on next. You’re totally right-both are good and necessary!
Excellent!
Great stuff as always. Thanks for all of the insight and advice.
Always happy to help. :)
Oh. That moment when everything just clicks and makes sense now. Thank you so much.
Happy to help. :)
Great explanation Vince. thanks again!
Happy to help. :)
You are a gifted painter but an even better teacher
Thank you, that means a great deal.
I have been contemplating priming alot and i do think it is the most overlooked aspect of the hobby because if you don’t start right its an uphill battle. I have also been thinking about coloured primers and how those can be used but it is from my point of view certainly something that has more depth to it than we generally assume.
Agree on all counts.
Great video. Yeah, I found it depends on the subject & desired effect the prime you use.
Exactly.
I would love to see a video on fun Zenithal color combos. For example, base pink and Zen with Yellow ink makes a fun orange/brown scheme. These can really save you time. Of course, this might open up a can of worms as this is not exclusive to Zen priming.
Great suggestion!
Thanks for the good tips! In my opinion another good use-case for using black priming instead of zenithal is painting a model with many flat surfaces (mostly vehicles). Mostly this vehicles got a lot of metal/steel pieces which, like you mentioned, also profit from a black priming.
Sure, though you can also use the zenithal on those vehicles to set the light on panels of course (if you're not building them directly through the color), but yep. :)
Hi vince, i re started the lobby last august after a 10 years pause. I rarely comment any videos on YT (its the 2nd time in 12 years), but i wanted to thank you for all your amazing tutorials/classes, you're always on point, your explanations goes deep into details but are still easy to understand for a nooby painter like me.
I've watched about a hundred of your videos, and i was wondering, have you ever consider making a serie of video of you painting a mini start to finish ? I think tutorials like you do 1 subject=1 video is good, but having some vids where you explane how you blend all your technics and why, would be really beneficial for the community. I'd bet my savings we all would watch it even if it's a 2h long video.
Thx again for your hard work;
Cheers from France.
PS: Sorry for the typos/mistakes, english is my 2nd langage.
PS 2 : I gave you a nickname that i hope will make you laugh : you're my shiny-forehead-ASMRy-painter-gourou :D
So I have a few videos in the series where I cover most of a miniature, but you'll see a few coming up that are a little cut. I will think about doing something longer (but keep in mind, truly painting a figure from start to finish would be something like a 10-20 hour video which might be a bit long).
I absolutely love Vallejos german panzer grey, its my go to primer atm. I use it also when doing zenithal. I have it also as paint and usually use it for rims, because its that little bit less dominant then black that it doesnt catch the eye as black sometimes does.
I've begun to do a mix of stynylrez black and grey to try and match that panzer grey value. Better than black to Vallejo cold grey, and especially better for a Sepia ink to setup a red zenithal scheme.
Yep, it's the one for me. :)
Moved from black primer to zenithal specifically to walk the line between speed painting and high quality given touch time per model.
Figuring out the best paints to achieve a zenithal scheme for warm tones is IMHO endgame zenithal priming. Had I known of your zenithal scheme for Red back when I started mini painting, I may have never picked up a can of rattlecan red primer.
Yep, shifting the tones can really make a big difference. :)
Perfectly timed. Trying to get more bold hues, so did some white priming. Like zenithal x3. But it's looking niiiiice.
Excellent.
Great video Vince :) one thing I came across using Zenithal highlighting and wanting specifically bright areas on your model is to whiten those areas beyond your average Zenithal highlighting.
I wanted to paint my Sisters army bright pink and used zenithal highlighting using the brightest white that gave me the brightest pink base coat over the top.
I found the result not as bright as I wanted, I wanted them to look PINK! on the battlefield, so realistic colour gradients and shadows from above was secondary.
So I picked the areas I wanted to be the brightest, helmet, breast plate and focussed the zenithal on those areas resulting in a much brighter pink :)
Seems obvious now ;)
Absolutely, those focus spots can be very valuable.
Wonderful video, just packed full of great info as usual. If you don't mind me asking what is the miniature you're painting? I love it.
The bird is a 3D print from Archvillain games.
@@VinceVenturella awesome! Gonna print one for myself. Thank you for taking the time to answer.
Congrats on the 100k sub base, Vince. Just surprised it took so long, you have been the go-to for reliable advice for a long time. Question for you - Xenithal priming. You like it. All the pros like it. Effective for glazing, check. Effective for Contrast paint, check. But what about good old opaque paint? Doesn't the base coat and the highlights negate the effect of the Xenithal? I have just picked up my first airbrush so it will be easy to do, but struggling to understand the benefit if you cover the model in layers.
Even if you layer the model with traditional paints, it makes it easier generally if you are going for even, diffuse lighting, as the brighter colors will make the layers above reflect their true color more easily and require less paint to get to a true base boat. It also gives you a map for the overall diffuse highlights.
Love the video as always Vince! In the future do you think you could add subtitles if it's not too much of a hassle?
I believe TH-cam should add the subtitles automatically.
I like it when painters think about priming more than just going from white to black to monochromatic zenithal.
Currently because my paint style has focused more on using different colours hue and saturation to create contrast rather than using value, I've moved towards using a pure grey coat so that my shadows maintain that hugh without looking too low value.
Makes sense.
Hello!
Thx Vince, this Video was great.
Im using only Black Primer, because i dont have an Airbrush or Rattlecans or somethingelse to create an smooth zenithal Highlight and in 99% of my painted Minis i use the oldschool scheme that an Mini must look good from any angle on the table. So i try to catch the light on every higher Point.
Lg Ruberius
Totally fair! :)
I've been priming with stynl rez grey for quite some time now. Which btw, is nearly IDENTICAL to I believe it was administratum grey or the step below it. I don't recall but it's what I use for my GSC guys. For necrons doing leadbelcher air over vallejo gloss black makes the leadbelcher look SOOOOO deep. I love it. I haven't done much zenithal since I can't get over the really dark spots. I'll give it a shot on models that are a one shot like dnd minis and just deal with the dark spots and use it to actually use volumetric lighting compared to more of a eavy metal style
Excellent.
Sage advise as always
I hate white primer through the airbrush because it's clog city, so I use a thin Amsterdam "ink" (it's still acrylic) for a zenithal and brighten the spots where I use orange, which is the main color of my army, which saves a ton of layer work.
My Slaves to Darkness foot soldiers painted in the classic chaos undivided black and gold scheme = Black all the way, there's nothing on them that requires me saving layers, but for the riders/knights I want just the briefest of zenithals to show me all the detail so I don't miss it when hand painting.
Tamiya flat white through the airbrush with lacquer thinner. It's amazing. It's tough, unlike ink, smooth, and doesn't clog.
Media com art opaque white is an airbrush specific paint & the best I’ve used through the airbrush. Water based acrylic too.
I find Stynelrez white primer pretty free of clogs, but of course all the other options presented here are fine as well of course. :)
Vince Venturella - Badger products aren’t easy to come by in Europe unfortunately. I hear there’s a rebranded version, but I don’t see it sold anywhere.
@@Smilomaniac the rebranded version is the one shot primer by mig
Thanx Vince, I wish you could have mentioned in this presentation, which method of priming when your figure is in moonlight.
Normal zenithal would be fine, or something like what you saw in the lighting video, they two aren't innately connected. As I've said, moonlight is a tough scheme to sell outside of a single display piece.
Great explanation Vince thanks. Question though: I paint a lot of Dark Angel space marines, usually with quite heavy opaque paints from vallejo and citadel, but not Contrast paints. I usually layer and blend. As I'm using dark green as base layer is there any point using zenithal, will the base just cover it due to it's high opacity?
Thanks
It will just cover up your zenithal. You may be able to see some extremely slight variance in the darkness of the green but Dangles green is already so dark, it would be easier to just highlight up from it. You're spending money on zenithal paint only to negate its usefulness.
@@UntiltedName I know some painters use the zenithol as a guide for how to add highlights later, even if they won't actually be seen in the end. Plus the 2 drops of white ink it takes to zenithol highlight with ink is probably not wasting a lot of money.
The reasons I lay out here. It can provide you with a good map of the highlight placement. It can also help the greens show truer to their base color or require less layers to do so. :)
I think it's just a case of practice for me but I struggle with the zenithal either being not pronounced enough, so lots of dark -- or I try to address it by circling the model from above, then it ends up feeling way too light with minimal shadows. It's with a rattle can, so it's probably a combination of patience and going slow and getting a better grip on can technique.
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Thanks!
very clear!
Glad it was helpful!
My dude, thank you for this video.
You bet
@@VinceVenturella This video kind of unlocked it in my brain that I’m not bound or contracted to the zenithal highlights. I’m a beginner and I really enjoy this hobby, so it seemed limiting that the zenithal stuff was black and white only.
Sound check! Gooood
Excellent.
You've really changed the way I approach mini painting in the best way- I'm enjoying it so much more than ever. You've seeded confidence in trying techniques and tools that were so intimidating to me for decades, so thank you thank you thank you!
The topic that's always been my Achilles heel is robes; my brain just struggles with how to approach the volumes, and there's really no content out there covering it; any chance you would and help me get over the mental hurdle?
So something like this video might help (It's older, but it should still work) - th-cam.com/video/CfcxKUBr8PE/w-d-xo.html
That's super helpful! Thank you again!
Big V only guy on TH-cam Not Begging Us To Donate Money And Buy His Ads.
Man's a "GODsDAMN G"
Been 1 since Day 1
Well thank you, I am just here to teach. :)
awesome video thank you.
Thanks!
Question for you, Vince: I've been diving into doing miniatures fully in oil paints, and I've been doing a few different priming methods and haven't been super happy with them. What would be your recommended approach if doing oils? I do use your tip from your oils video to block out the main colors in acrylics before switching to oils. Should I use a white primer? Does it depend on the oils I use - Zorn pallete?
In this case, it shouldn't matter too much honestly. The oil paints are going to often have a very high opacity in the end and show very little undershade through (unlike acrylics). How you saw me do it is what I would generally do, zenithal to get the basic light sketch, then a transparent color layer to make the oils easier to apply.
I prime in whatever is the predominant colour of the finished model and work up from there with highlights and colours. I don't really bother with a dedicated undercoat, as I use a heavy duty polyurethane varnish to finish the model off.
That's fair, in this case, that's the equivalent of the black prime (for purposes of where you can go from here)
@@VinceVenturella saying that I do tend to shy away from black as a general rule. I find it too dark for finished models most of the time. Instead if something really needs to be black I will either use it sparingly or mix it up with a brown or blue to make an off black.
Mixed up a neutral grey using 9 white to 1 black artist ink. Definitely came out warm. The white ink does not have a warm bias, so the black (Liquitex) must have. Funnily enough my neutral grey mix has a very close resemblance to your old favorite Vallejo Game Color Cold Grey, which was also quite neutral, but with a warm bias as well. Weird name though. Because the Cold Grey seperates, you can tell that it has some yellow in it; my guess would be yellow oxide
Zenithal is a technique you can use for base coats too. Works excellent for metallics.
Yep, I have several videos on doing zenithal with metallics themselves in the playlist. :)
Vince, parabéns pelo seu trabalho. Vem me ajudando bastante. Obrigado por tudo meu amigo. Queria muito te conhecer pessoalmente. Kkk Só que moro no Brasil...
One for the algo god! Thanks Vince!
Thank you. :)
If there is ever a Vince Venturella T-shirt line, I’d like to request one “tiny doo-dads and
Be-jangles” in large please 😎👍🏻
Well we have merch in the description - but I don't have that one yet, great idea!
I'm having problems with the method for recognising where highlights should be - I used grey Vallejo primer and it's SUPER matt, like it's so matt it leaves no reflections at all, no matter the light I use. I think it's better to either take the foto BEFORE priming, when the plastic is still a little shiny, or using primer with satin or less matt finish
another great video
Thanks!
Brilliant video as usual Vince, I started priming using the army paints grey brush on primer when I started miniature painting two years ago, I've been doing them in black now for the last 12-14 months. Now I've started priming with an airbrush for the last 2 months AK interactive 3rd generation, yet to attempt a zenethal prime as I dont feel 1 comfortable and 2 don't feel my warhammer figures ( stormcast Eternals) would benefit from it, am I wrong?
It can be greatly beneficial if they aren't metallic, that's when I skip it.
Question i don´t think you have done it yet (though you have touched upon it in other videos) but could you do a video with an in dept explaining about underpainting/verdaccio?
From what i have been told its a good technique to use if you want a more lifelike skintone.
ala the whole paint your minis skin in the various hues of green, red, brown before doing a glaze of skintone and maybe a highlight.
Don´t know if the technique is better suited for busts and paintings or if it can deliver some interesting results in normal sized miniatures?
It's not as necessary anymore, as it was used during a time when the pigments didn't really exist enough to get the tones they wanted, but it can still be an interesting and a good idea for a future video.
I’ve been priming in Panzer Grey with an airbrush and then doing a zenithal with a white Liquitex ink and I’ve noticed the ink occasionally reactivating when I start to paint the base coat. Could it be I’m thinning my paint too much or something else I’m missing?
You just need to wait longer for the ink to cure. A thin coat of matte varnish through airbrush can also help.
Yep same issue, avoided it since.
@@99Plastics I switched to Pro Acryl bold titanium white for zenithal, as I had poor experiences with acrylic ink.
Inks can sometimes reactivate when exposed to too much liquid and depending on your humidity when it cures. OPtions are as people have laid out - 1) Let it go longer 2) Quick varnish over the top 3) Use a paint instead. All are perfectly valid. :)
I use Golden High Flow Titan Buff. Its an excellent paint for Zenithal highlighting or for base coating. Also good if you want to use a lot of contrast/speed paints.
Hey, again, very helpful. Do you have a video on zenithal priming with other colors than black and white? E. g. a green or olive based zenithal for miniatures wearing something like army camouflage uniforms (e. g. Cadians, modern uniforms etc.)?
I don’t, but I will do one (I do it often, but never as the point of the video)
@@VinceVenturella, great, looking forward to it! You're videos are a great resource for me to get back into painting. :)
In another zenithal video you mentioned Panzer Gray was your go to base (instead of black). Is that still the case and why do you prefer it?
It was for a long time, I liked it because it wasn't true black (which is too strong of a shadow), this was a little softer. Now though, I am all in on the Pro Acryl Dark Neutral Grey.
Thanks vince
Happy to help. :)
Do you have any experience using GOLDEN brand acrylics besides the heavy body? My local art store sells golden but I haven't seen anyone use them for mini painting except in Ninjon's latest video where he talked about using a high flow paint for zenithal. I thought that the fluid paints might be a good addition to my collection.
I'll have a video coming soon about Golden-So Flat which I really like. I use their high flow fluorescents. The normal high flow isn't for me.
Hello. Do you think I should Zenithal even Black Templars? Thx for info :)
It's an option, I hav vidoes on painting black armor and show how you can use a zenithal for speed painting and also show how you can build over normal black. There is no single answer, just the workflow that is comfortable to you.
I'm finding these videos very helpful. However, I noticed this is HC341. Is there an index or listing somewhere so I could explore the topics I want to know more about?
Yep, there is a playlist on the channel - th-cam.com/play/PLcdsbwBroEmD2fNEJhcju6PD7qRmoo04Y.html
Where can I get a full shot of the finished bird daemon mini? I like that model and I'd love to see what you did with it.
I shared it out on my socials some time back.
Just happened upon this video.
I just wanted to add something to your great video especially the part about eyesight. My eyesight is pretty bad and I found that pure black priming doesn’t really work for me personally like you pointed out. Even a satin black just drowns out the details so much that I can’t really make out any of the details even under a very bright light source. I have a much easier time painting minis if I use a grey primer - even if it’s a dark grey - or going with a zenithal prime instead.
Especially now that my eyesight is bad enough (in addition to age related presbyopia) that I pretty much have to paint everything using magnifiers which need more light in the first place.
Unfortunately there’s not a lot of material out there on what to do when you have impaired vision and want to paint minis (e.g. lighting, what type of magnifiers work best and how to adapt your workflow to accommodate that) and so I spent a lot of money and time to essentially find out that a particular tool or workflow doesn’t really work for me. Like for example priming a bunch of minis black and then realizing that I can’t make out any details and that I basically can paint them or spending $100 on a magnifying desk lamp just to realize that it’s not a particularly great tool for mini painting (it’s constantly in the way of your hands and your brush and dirts and fogs up easily)
So I truly appreciate your recommendations regarding black primer and eyesight it might help someone else down the line avoid the same mistakes I made
Absolutely! As someone who has always had bad eyes, it's never far from mind. :)
Greate video.
What modle ist that Bird?
3D printed from myminifactory.
3:37 Man I need to know, was this done with a SPRAY can? If so, WHICH ONE, please? I was thinking about get a better can, and I found a White Rust-Oleum 2x Cover Primer, which is VERY expensive here in Brazil (since it's imported). The generic ones I've been using so far ended up in a LOT of speculating, lots of white drops and way too much texture, it looks terrible with Contrast / Speedpaint, it's not smooth at all.
Do you think Rust-Oleum white spray can provides a smoother transition, closer to what an airbrush would do? Appreciate the help, and awesome video, thanks!
That was done with an airbrush. The reality is it's going to be very hard to get that fine with a spray can.
@@VinceVenturella Thank you. Yeah, I'm realizing it's going to come down to an airburhs after all. Your videos have been a HUGE help, thanks!
Yo! Trust me when I say I don't intend do sound like a douche here, just trying to help. There are some awesome VSTs that would take care of that background noise with very little effort (standard format for audio processing plugins, usable in most audio and video editing software). I'd suggest Izotopes "Spectral De-Noise". Super simple to use. One button and it starts analyzing the noise, then just slaps a cancel on it with some sliders to tweak that you probably won't ever need to touch :). Since your environment doesn't change, you would likely only need to set it up once. Hopefully they still sell it stand-alone, but there are of course other options, great ones that will get the job done for free as well.
Anyway, thanks for all the great tips. You among some other TH-camrs made me go grab some paints again after a 15-year or so hiatus.
Yep, I've been working on it since then, I believe I've subtracted most out since this time and I always apprecaite the feedback. :)
Hi Vince. The concept of black priming (or black "basing" as it's usually called in the modeling fraternity) is very well known but I would like your opinion on one of the alternatives which I think you have mentioned in previous videos. Depending on the actual subject, could it not be better to prime in a mid to dark grey (such as the Panzer grey you mention or lighter) and then undershade with black and zenithal with white. Would this not mean that the paints have to do "less work"? This is just a variation on preshading as used on models a lot. Also, would it not work to do a "zenithal" from a different direction than from above in order to prepare for OSL?
Yeah there are many different ways of doing zenithal priming instead of using just black and white, the idea being that the first colour you use should be darker than the next.
And yeah a quick way people do OSL is to first get something like a small torch (not too bright as to destroy all the shadows), shine it on the model until you find the angle you think looks best, then map that out with using an airbrush.
Yes, what you describe is the zenithal, I travel from the dark grey black to white so the paints are doing less work. And yes, you certainly can alternate directionality of the lighting (I did that recently in a video so you can see that in the lighting video recently). But I wanted to keep this a little more simple just for comparitive purposes on strengths and weaknesses.
I've always wondered how a reverse zenithal would look. I imagine it would be a good effect for underlighting or otherworldly stuff like vampires. Prime all in white, then black from the top, hopefully giving an effect similar to when you hold a flashlight under your face when telling ghost stories. If anyone knows how those look let me know!
Sure, it cnabe good for light from below.
I wonder how this would look for Nighthaunt.
Great video! What would be the difference in priming grey or white instead of black, when painting NMM or OSL?
With grey, you're not getting as deep for the shadows for the lower recesses and you may have to build those into your paint scheme. With the black, you have those deepest shadows.
@@VinceVenturella Thank you for your reply! Everything is clear now. :)
So Vince, I need to paint a Chardylon Dragon, do I start all black? Or Zenithal?
I might do a very, very light zenithal just to set a soft grey highlight and have something to build up from while still leaving much black for the larger tone.
This is not directly tied to the content of the video but does anyone know what's the miniature Vince is painting with these blue contrasts while talking about zenithal ? It looks similar to a lord of change but smaller and i think it'd work great as a tzeentch daemon prince proxy but i don't know who makes it nor it's name
3D print from Archvillain games.
Vince you are a painting wizard m8ty :)
Thanks!
I have been doing a zenithal prime for my IJ army, but there is a fair amount of TMM steel. Would you say that it is worth going over the TMM sections in black primer before painting. I have been using Vallejo metal color as my TMM paint. Side note one issue I often have with VMC is that it is so thin that if my brush has too much paint in it with a stiff bristled synthetic brush it can flick paint onto other sections. Do you typically touch your brush to a paper towel when using VMC to keep brush load to a minimum?
I just do the VMeC over the top, no issues. Now, as to your question, yes, always, always, always when you are working with Vallejo Metal Color your brush needs to go to a paper towel or similar first to remove the excess liquid, then you have perfectly controllable and high opacity metal paint ready to go.
Thanks Vince,
I've never used black as my primer, it always seems to dark. I've only used white primer. Any opinion on that?
So white primer is tough, because then you have to make sure you are recreating all of your shadows deeply. If you have anything showing through, it will instantly look off as there will be brighter areas in the recesses. That being said, it can certainly be done. I understand the white as a base, it does make many color easier (which is why I often go for a zenithal). That being said, if you want a single color prime, something like a mid-grey can be the best of both worlds and make your colors easier while also providing for something not soooo bright.
Ooh that's a lovely purple you have on that cloak. I assume that's a contrast mix?
Purple Lake Daler Rowney FW ink.
@@VinceVenturella oh really? That's going on the shopping list!
Now i understand the difference :)
Excellent, happy to help :)
I have prepared a Nurgle Rotters Bloodbowl Team using the method you demontrated in "Hobby Cheating 34 - Preparing for your Best Paint Job". How should I proceed painting them? I'm looking at the box art for inspiration and would like to get the most out of the underpaint so that work isn't wasted. Problem is it might be too dark all in all and if I use contrastpaint or paints like that the colors get less vibrant but if I using layering I lose the underpaint. Am I overthinking the usage of the underpaint and should I just consider it a guide and take pictures of them so I can look back and see what the guide looked like or how should I proceed?
Why not both. You could use the contrast paints or something similar thinnly to establish some base tones, and then use those to build up from there with some layer paints on top to reinforce the colors and build highlights and shades.
@@VinceVenturella Hmm, okay.
hello, Vince, have you experienced (or heard of) crackling when using speedpaints 2.0 over zenithal using white ink?
Haven't seen it, but if I use ink, I varnish before I put anything over to avoid reactivation.
@@VinceVenturella, thanks!
I am new to airbrushing ,can I use the same method for priming metal.I will be airbrushing car spots.I would like to spray base coat then clear coat.Thanks
Yes you can
@@VinceVenturella Thank you
Can you do NNM steel with a grey primer or is black better
You can do it with any color primer, but building up from black is generally going to make your life easier.
I am wondering what you think about white primer? Or color primers?
How about a brown-tan zenithol or something like that?
White primer as the only primer I definitely don't favor, as it then makes it more difficult to set your deepst shades. Now doing a zenithal like thing with other colors, that is more than fine, I do that in many videos and it's a great strategy. :)
@@VinceVenturella thank you!
@@VinceVenturella Great video Vince! 👍
I've been thinking about starting from white too. I feel like it's less work to get nice saturated colours (compared to over black), but you don't get any free shadows or separation, and white seems to show your mistakes more.
Are there any approaches that make working over white advantageous? Clever ways to add shading maybe?
I always zenithal unless I have a plan for the mini. it gives me options for later
There you go.
what's a good gloss black primer?
There are some golls mecha primers, but you can also just lay a gloss black paint over your prime.
My favourite for my sisters of battle is silver zenithal over steel.
Yep, I have some videos doing that as well. :) - th-cam.com/video/ByX2jIEmXJM/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been trying zenithal primer (rattle can) and the white layer is very grainy and dotty looking, is there any techniques or different primers that can prevent that? Or do I just need an airbrush?
your too far away from the mini, also make sure it shaken alot like twice as long as you think, and soak the can in hot water before hand to to get the paint warmed but yeah an airbrush is the easiest way to remedy that
Yep, all of those tips are great, an airbrush can help smooth it out, but you can utilize alternative tips on some spray cans as well to change the spray pattern.
Since zenithal highlighting with an airbrush and slap chop both try to create areas of light and shadow for, say, Speedpaint, is there any reason to use one over the other? I’ve tested both and slap chop (drybrushing) seemed to still leave too much black, while the airbrush almost seemed too light. I was using a black primer for both, white for the upper most parts, and gray for the middle paint in slap chop. Maybe I’m overthinking this 😂.
I have an Ork army I want to paint so speed is appreciated, but I want the Boyz to look decent at least.
I actually prefer a mix, a little mid-tone through the airbrush, then a light, soft make-up drybrush to pick out the high detail.
@@VinceVenturella Do you spray the midtone at a 45 degree angle? I find that on my past models it left lots of areas virtually untouched so I was basically putting Speedpaint over black primer.
I do, I try to leave only the deepest recess dark @@j.taylor7361
Aurelia ftw!
:)
Zenithal all the way. Airbrush or Drybrush Zenithal work for me.
That is me as well for 98% of what I do.
Hey folks, anyone know what the tzeentch like miniature is and where do i get it? The one that vince demonstrates the zenithal part on.
It's a Lord of Change
It's a 3D print from Archvillain games.
@@VinceVenturella thanks vincy v
Is that the redgrass gaming light in the background.. 🤔
Nope just some architect draft lights.
Hi Vince! Have you ever thought about virtual lessons over zoom or FaceTime or something? Thinning just doesn't seem to go my way. Ever. Even with a not very wet wet palette it's just too runny and doesn't cover. Army painter, Vallejo, Scale75, doesn't seem to matter what the paint brand, but Vallejo is the best of the bunch for me.
When it comes to your brush, how wet do you have it before touching the paints with it?
@@oliverp3545 I dip it in the cleaning water and make sure it's clean, then wipe it a bit on a paper towel. Not sure how to describe how wet that is, it may be the source of the problem.
I have on-line coaching as part of my Patreon, all of the slots are full right now, but that's my current method for that sort of feedback. My best advice is you want to put some paint on your wet palette, then you bring some of that to a new area, then you get just a little water into the tip of your brush and mix it in. Then repeat until it's the proper thinness.
@@VinceVenturella Kinda willing to bet I don't understand consistency. If it tells you anything, even after 30 years of cooking if I want to be sure of the output I still measure precisely when making a sauce. Used to like a website called Cooking For Engineers cuz of stuff like that. I'll keep an eye on the Patreon though!
i feel like i dont zenithal often because airbrush spooky and my brain smooth at best. (I should just take the time to actually learn my tools)
What is that Tzeentch demon prince from? It looks awesome.
3D print from Archvillain games.
@@VinceVenturella Ohhhh, i should've known that. Thank you!!!
@@VinceVenturella I got him printed and cleaned this morning. Hes sitting in the UV bath, now. Archvillain makes some amazing stuff - i'mma fan. Are you going to post him on FB, when you get him painted?
I don't feel your technomancy is all that strict. Seems pretty adaptable, to me. Either way, as a mere painting hedge witch, it's appreciated.
Always try to keep it adaptable. ;)