I'm not sure that using examples of Galadriel, who is supposed to be the most beautiful of all of the Elves, even across the various species of Middle Earth, is appropriate. She isn't even being diminished by it, because she is very clearly shown to be exceptionally wise, powerful, and capable. She is just *also* beautiful, and it's perfectly fair to show that... especially when the other Elves are also lit in a similar way to enhance their beauty (male AND female). It's enhancing the difference between species, NOT sex. Otherwise, this is a fantastic video.
Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES. So take that for what it is.
Let's not pretend we women don't like looking at pretty people, we just want them to be treated as more than just a pretty person. We wanna see their character and skills and more than just their bodies. I think that's the main difference for me.
As a girl, all of the male gazey shots in movies always make me incredibly uncomfortable. They also take away from the meaning of the movies. I'm glad that the female gaze is starting to be more of a thing.
I agree and usually poorly timed lol Male writers/directors will drag out a body shot way too long, like we get it she's hot but can we focus on the story? Most male gazey scenes aren't relevant to the story and could have been edited out totally and the story would still be good. Just plain creepy.
@@jerrymathewninan6739 To your point, no gaze is inherently good or bad. But too much of one gaze can silence and overshadow others. We need to see more. The best point the video made is that we shouldn't make cliche gazes in response to the dominant ones. Instead, we should aspire to see numerous gazes and experiences--whether it's the black female gaze, the gay gaze, religious gaze, etc. And the way to start is to give more opportunities to those groups whose gazes haven't yet been seen.
@@jerrymathewninan6739 I think we should stop labelling things with words like "male/female" and use neutral words instead. IMO, those words only contribute to dividing us more instead of finding common ground to improve society as a whole.
I remember Phoebe Waller Bridge said she spoke with Andrew Scott about why women were so obsessed with "Hot Priest" and they came to the conclusion that "oh, he literally just listened to her" lol
I didn’t find that actor attractive until his role in that show, so yes. His personality is what makes him desirable. If only the same applied with women.
The biggest lie ever told is that the white male perspective is the HUMAN experience and other perspectives are too specific to be relatable to everyone.
@@greywolf7577 the difference is treating men like people is normal and expected. Most stories and media have men as protagonists and even the ones that dont still treat male side characters with agency. Wmn, on the other hand, are treated like objects for the maIes desire in most media and only recently has it begun to change.
That’s because Jane Austen novels are all written where the men are a bit superfluous! There’s the hero of course but most of the books center on female friendships/ sisterhood. It would be a bit hard I think to make them into an adaptation using the male gaze.
I work in film in the camera department as a focus puller. It's funny when you said that the camera is always framing for the male gaze, but that's because we always always have male camera operators or focus pullers. Only 8% of those working in the camera dept are female, it's the least diverse part of film yet it shapes everything we see and how we see it. I've worked on films that don't call for the sexualization of a female character but the camera operator will still frame her as such because it's how he sees her. I've actually intentionally put the focus somewhere else so the clip is out of focus and the editors can't use it so a stupid shot of a young girl's ass, or a woman's chest as she's walking doesn't need to be in a rom-com or action movie.
“There’s something different about when a female directs versus a male. The level of maturity, mutual respect, and energy that you get from a female director is so different. I’ve worked with male directors who aren’t good, and no one says anything about it, but then we had one female director who was kind of all over the place and everyone complained. It’s so gendered. I feel safer when working with a female director because I know it’s from a female gaze.” ― Rowan Blanchard
I adore both Rowan and that quote! I love that the Female Gaze fixates more on faces and equality, while the Male Gaze tends to oversexualise and exaggerate.
so true, I've seen so many bad flop films directed by men & I don't even remember their names 😅 but anytime a female director has a major film, (& I'm often rooting for her bc of scarcity in the field) but if her film fails, it's often used to justify why she shouldn't have gotten that opportunity in the first place. even if a female director has a score of good projects & 1 flop, I feel like I hear about the flop for years lmao. like Ava DuVernay for example.
@@Chris-rg6nm I think most people want to be desirable (being desirable involves more qualities) you want to feel attractive not objectified. It's not the same. I don't think you want to be perceived as an entity who lacks agency or personality, that your thought processes don't matter and that your sexuality is not your own. Men as well as woman want to be multidimensional, attractive because you have different qualities. If you are perceived only as an object not even your sexual pleasure it's important for the other person, you are just a container of desire but without mutual feedback, it's an egotistic interaction, and is not beneficial for the person being objectified. I just mean that being perceived as attractive and being and object is not the same. Have a nice day :)
3:02 Nobody talks about the tailored tank top in this scene... Megan Fox's character has skills, she is a talented mechanic and tailors her own clothes, but every person who interacts with her in the story (and everyone in the audience as well) only notices her for being attactive. Meanwhile, mediocre looking dudes get praised for their intelligence, even if their skills are limited.
That's the geek fantasy (I'm thinking specifically of Transformers): that a guy doesn't have to have muscles or even look like a grown man to pull in beautiful women because he's so intelligent/witty/creative/special in some other way, that beautiful women will want to be with him, despite having to fix the engine that he can't. It gets written off as comedy or a coming of age story, but 98 lb. weaklings and 300 lb. neckbeards eat this stuff up. There are too many movies like this out there.
Mediocre dudes do not get praised for neither anything nor by anyone. Nobody cares about mediocre dudes. You've clearly never lived life as a mediocre dude. Mediocre dudes are by definition unintelligent, if people are "praising" them, that's just happening because the guy is pitied and the person doing the "praising" doesn't want to hurt the guy's feelings or cause an extreme negative reaction.
brings to mind a post I saw online comparing Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad vs Birds of Prey. SS showed Harley in ratty sexy clothes with long hair with the camera from the picture they used as reference centered on her chest. BoP showed Harley with a short uneven fun haircut in clothes more fitting of her personality and the camera for the picture reference centered on her face
I loved birds of prey and idc if no one else in the world does. The outfits were awesome, they built the characters in it to where the next one would be kick ass, amd I mean the glitter gun scene.
Same goes for Wonder Woman. The way she is portrayed in the first movie compared to how she was portrayed in Josh Whedon's Justice league, really bothered me. It wasn't what I expected, because I have always liked Zack Snyder's portrayal of strong female characters, only to have a god who no longer carried themselves like one, and close up shots of their butt, and shots up their skirt. I was relieved to find out it was Josh Whedon's doing, all his re-shoots and edits were to cut down the story for Wonder Woman, and people of colour, and to add shots of Wonder Woman's body.
@@-Anjel he completely cut out Cyborgs story, which is why it's ironic that the actor spoke up about racism on set, Oh I SEE, I had an aha moment when you spoke about Joss Whedon's reshoots, a racist and a sexist? wild.
I didn't like birds of prey. The plot was was good at first, but it devolved into childishness near the end. Harley herself was fine. I had thought overt sexuality was part of her crazy, but I like her crazy more now.
Imagine how much better the world would be if money and art never had to coexist. All this 'male' 'female' propaganda could go away, and there could be plenty of male and female movies each with both 'female' and 'male' perspectives, because we'd realise that had nothing to do with any of it in the first place
I think that female gaze focuses more on smaller details ie hand touching, knowing looks, secret smiles and laughters and etc. You can tell that a character is falling in love/cares so much about someone when the camera focuses on smaller details within their interactions. Everytime I watch movies or read novels with that sort of scenes, my heart can't help but flutters! Oh the longing is so beautiful.
This is rich. Women partake in the so called "male gaze" too and vice versa. It's one thing to say many (or most) men oversexualise people. But to create a whole concept of maleness from thin air? The idea being it's not about the behaviour of men that could improve to be better men but that improving itself as a man is by definition to move towards being female. It's as irritating as men telling women what they _are_ and that they should be more _like men_ to be better.
Yea, women attraction to men is more based on his behavior while men's attraction to women is more related to her body parts. I think biology is playing an important part here.
I never saw Lord of the Rings with the male gaze. The elves are already powerful beings and Galadriel was one of the most powerful. She wasn't sexualized and the light only showcased her strength.
@@Charolette21 Galadriel isn't shot in the male gaze. All elves in LotR are shot as beautiful and powerful. Just look at Legolas-girls were swooning for Orlando Bloom for years after those films. Galadriel isn't just an ordinary elf. She's half Maiar, (an angelic race that was created at the dawn of time) there's a reason why she's supposed to look other worldly, that's because she exists half in our reality and half in the spirit realm. Peter Jackson captured this perfectly the way he shot Cate Blanchett. All this male gaze nonsense is just virtue signalling. When Peter Jackson frames male elves for beauty, (Elron, Legolas and pretty much any elf you see) no one says a peep. Do it to a woman and now it's the male gaze 🤦🏿♂️
I'm so tired of female characters in movies falling in 1 of about 5 tropes and the only moment of "depth" will be a short moment of her looking in a mirror and maybe being somewhat body conscious.
@@bread2951 The majority of female led films from the 70s, 80s and 90s don't work like this. Was Meryl lit for "beauty" in River Wild? What about the Witches of Eastwick? What about 9 to 5? Did these women have no depth? What about Tootsie? What about The Bridges of Madison County? What about Bridesmaids? What about Monster? What about Zero Dark Thirty? I can keep going, literally forever. I can go back further too. What about The Thin Man movies? What about Torchy Blaine? What about Persona? It's corny to even mention it, but what about the Terminator and Alien franchises? Bounce to TV we have Alias and X-Files and Dark Angel and Buffy, damn, holy shit! Not to mention Murder She Wrote, Miss Marple, the list goes on. The Birds? Psycho? Rebecca? What about the movie Vacancy? That's just a random horror one, but psychological thrillers have been FILLED with great female characters since like the 1950s? Copycat? Single White Female? Fuck even the female lead in IN THE LINE OF FIRE has pathos and depth. We can keep going. What about The Help? That movie isn't even good and it has well written women in it. What about Miss Congeniality? What about The Long Kiss Goodnight? Literally you never have to stop, you can just keep listing good movies. Women are generally only written bad IN BAD MOVIES. Movies that are well loved, respected and remembered pretty much universally contain at least one female character with dimensionality. THIS BRAND OF FEMINISM ERASES FEMALE ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN ENTERTAINMENT OF THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF CINEMA IN FAVOR OF BORING BULLSHIT OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS
@@Uptomyknees Yeah, I think most attempts at female-perspective in the last decade have failed because they are too self-conscious about it. They end up presenting women acting like male stereotypes and try and pass it off as empowerment. You listed several movies with great women’s roles for decades that did it naturally, with a more genuine female empowerment. I’d add Gone With the Wind to the list. Scarlett was feminine, strong and thoroughly human. And Vivien Leigh just killed it throughout the whole movie.
I remember reading something about how George of the Jungle was an example of a movie done in this way. They even made a joke about it in the movie about how men were baffled at why so many women liked George
I love the video on this movie and how it's made from the female gaze. Ursula and all the women are attractive, but don't dress provocatively in any way. George is hot, but we have insight on his emotions as well. Brendan Frasier and this movie are both so underrated.
It’s being talked about, you might not be occupying or visiting the spaces where it is :) /respectfully - not trying to start a fight here lol/ - it’s not underrated, it’s getting love.
Have you read Joss Whedon's concept script for Wonder woman? Blatant not respectful male gaze,every shot of Diana describe her physical before her expression, it's a nigthmare that i'll be forever grateful never happened
It's so sad and frustrating to see a creator who seems to have learnt nothing from their own work. How can this man not be a 100% feminist after making Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
Whedon is feminist for 90s standard. Today his works regarding female characters has not aged well, especially it turns out he's an asshole toward his ex-wife and the female cast behind the production which makes it harder to swallow in hindsight.
That was funny to me because she has a production company and she only worked with one woman director and that's her. She only worked with one other woman director through her entire career. She is just one of those people who uses feminism. But it is just an act. She actually don't care.
@@probablyalive.2665 Oscar ratings have dropped massively over the last couple of years with 2020 being an all time low because now it's all just a platform for preachy activism and nobody is interested.
I think the female gaze is looking at whoever’s talking and being looked at when talking. Looking at pretty people just existing without having to highlight their sexuality with clothes or perfect beauty lighting. Highlighting people’s individuality and how they naturally move. Most importantly, seeing people as PEOPLE, not objects.
@@the_mulattos Ah yas straight women always complain about the lesbian glare. On social media, I always hear women complaining about being cat called and harrased by lesbians. Yep totally ✋🙄
The female gaze can only hit you if you watch Francis Lee's "Ammonite" and Céline Sciamma's "Portrait de la jeune fille en feu" in a row. The first is an over-sexualized fetish of lesbianism, the latter is a love story which happens to involve two women. Sciamma's respect for her subject is obvious. Also that's a other discussion over queer gaze, but as a lesbian woman herself, she avoids the clichés that she is probably tired of in films (like in Abdellatif Kechiche's "La vie d'Adèle : chapitres 1 et 2").
Oh mah gawd there's WAY too many things wrong with Ammonite than just the sex scenes. I'm sorry, but I have more chemistry with the lamp post outside my house than what Kate Winslet had with Saoirse Ronan. The director of the movie happens to be very gay, and apparently the sex scenes were left to the choreography of the actors.
@@sanghamitrade6972 that's it, a gay man and straight women can't know about lesbian love. But Lee still wrote about all those sex scenes, it's a weird fetishization of a romance. We can't say Winslet and Ronan are bad actresses (definitely not omg) so the problem with their chemistry is with Lee's acting direction (or lack of).
@@yannickdrmda5295 The sex scenes in Portrait are just *different*, Sciamma knows how to remove the objectification while preserving the desire. On the other hand, Ammonite was just poop through and through. Kate Winslet gives so much to the film it hurts, but it's just a no no no no no
I agree. However, this channel only confuses me. If male gaze is accepted and appreciated (in terms of money) should a filmmaker go against it or with the flow. We know sex, dumb blonde, etc sells so should an aspiring creator follow the tropes, as its more likely to make money or should she go against it.
And screenwriters - aspiring and otherwise. I often feel frustrated in story meetings trying to express my frustrations with whatever story we are breaking down and this channel gives me the language.
@@bread2951 no, go make a masterpiece that you love not make money, but it depends on what you want masterpiece or money but you can get both, though rarely.
The problem with this channel is that it almost always views female characters (or writers and directors) as good or sympathetic while it views male characters (or writers and directors) as bad or immoral. The only exception being if it is talking about fantasies (so this channel views Manic Pixie Dream Girl as bad and Manic Pixie Dream Boy as good). This channel seems very biased based on gender and comes off as kind of sexist.
One thing I loved about that movie was how Carey was never sexualized. Even at the end when she was using her body to get male attention, we got one shot of her pulling down her zipper, but no shots of her body. She was still a person through and through. It was amazing.
Enola Holmes offers an interesting perspective on the female gaze: Although there’s almost no explicit sexualization of anyone in the film, the camera very pointedly centers her experiences as well as her face. It also hovers just on the edge of breaking the fourth wall, with Enola speaking directly to the audience about her thoughts.
"I made them watch their own terror. I made them see their own fear" that reminds me of how marginalised people especially black people are constantly watching black death with these police videos. I get the merit in making the world confront police brutality but if our humanity was respected we wouldn't need to see the air escape a person's lungs to know its a problem. I also think of the detail with which women are confronted with violence against us especially in film.
yes, you said it. 👏🏿 I'm afraid that people will become numb to the horrific violence as we casually watch Black death on our phones, & watch femicide on screens. sadly I've become a little desensitized to the latter. It shouldn't take this much pain for people to pay attention.
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl while I agree with you this is a situation in which men's rage and indifference is turned onto other men. As was explored in film its generally not women creating these stories and in real life its generally not women with institutional power. I absolutely agree that its an issue and its an issue that needs addressing but I don't think the way that issue is going to be addressed is to speak over women's pain and say "well its really men who suffer" that is minimising and doesn't actually get to the root of the problem.
Its not just the female gaze, the way love is potrayed is beyond Hollywood. I got into K-drama after watching a lot of Hollywood movies. I just got stuck there. Now, whenever I see people kissing in an English me I find it gross, y'all just eat the whole face. There are stupid K-drama kisses too, where the girl just behave like a rock. Its more about emotions, you feel it. You dont need to see them banging every now and then to feel the chemistry. K-drama couples just look at each other and get you blushing.
@@bread2951 I agree with you but I think it's more than that. I have watched Korean movies where they have pretty explicit sex scenes and it still is different. I guess it's how they write the characters themselves/the narrative. I think a lot o Hollywood movies right now basically think you can exchange character development by putting sex scenes or making out between the couple.
TRUE Edit : to give exemple there's a drama I think it's in OH my Ghost, the guy put off his shirt and the girl is like ~~~~~~, That's something you see in kdrama. And the guys are actually hot
@@thisisntallowed9560 yeah, that's a good example of an "objectifying camera". There's also a scene where the male lead is doing pushups and the camera is shooting him from behind, just his butt..lol It's the kind of thing we don't see being done here for male characters even if it's pretty common for women.
Now that you've mentioned kpop, it's a big thing there that the fancams for woman (or any view of the presentation) are usually shot from low angles and focus on their legs and skirts. Even if they did that with men (which is definitely not as often), men wear pants, but almost all women idols have to wear shorts or skirts. It's just really messed up.
I find this so weird. I actually checked the angles of some male groups who wore some risqué (for male idols) clothing, like ACE's performances of Cactus, and the angles are mostly from the front or upper side. Nothing as weird as what happens to female idols.
You know, while we are theorizing and debating about the subject, it's actually harrowing to watch some of the clips from the male gaze shown in the video. And that blows me away in itself; we're arguing to be treated as more than meat.
I was extremely horrified at the movie about the man who filmed the women he killed & attached a mirror so the last thing they would see was their own fear. What. The. F**k???????? That is a terrifying level of sick & they just went right on past it like it wasn’t disturbing AF😲
"...we're arguing to be treated as more than meat." It's little wonder that there's been so many former models/actresses known for being hot that become animal rights activists when they retire.
Honestly it’s true that women love men with nice hands. I just love a man with nice hands. A man’s smile also gets me. That’s definitely female gaze. 😍
15:24 "looking respectfully" i really love that meme/term, i always use it in my language now whenever i see an attractive woman. i guess it can be attributed to the fact that i'm a lesbian and i've always had a fear of coming off as predatory, so hearing this term, it kind of like assured(?) me. it's like yes i find this woman very attractive, but i acknowledge her other traits that i like, and so i still wanna be respectful and not seem like i'm leering and ogling.
Strangely it reminds me of my friend (he's a guy). Once he said that he's tired of movies because "most of romances between boy and girl are oversexualized"
@@1fromoutside your friend is totally tight which is why I think I dramas are better they’re usually more romantic and less rushed and way less sexualized. It takes like 10 episodes to even get the characters to hold hands
Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES. So take that for what it is.
"Perhaps because hands and mouths are more likely vehicles of female pleasure delivery than our phallocentric society would have you believe." That explains SO MUCH. THANK YOU. I couldn't have said it better
As a male I think the biggest lie the “patriarchy” ever told us is that we were inherently different because I feel like that’s what ended up ultimately creating our differences
Finally a comment that says it, that most of this comments and even the video kinda fall flat when we believe in inherent differences, even generalizing assumptions about each gender.
We are All Different, We Should Celebrate Our Differences and Not Weaponize Them but the Bigger Lie is that Patriarchy Exists for People Who Aren't Filthy Rich. If the Point of it was to Benefit Men and Harm Women, it's Not a Good One. I'm a Man, Yet I Have to Pay Taxes and Work for a Living. The Patriarchy Myth is just a Smokescreen to Turn Us on Each Other to Protect the Upper Crust.
I feel like the response to Chris Evans’ sweater in Knives Out is a really good example of the female gaze. There’s nothing inherently sexy about the sweater but the way it’s been received is the same level as him shirtless in Captain America.
I really think Boys - Charli XCX and Boys - Lizzo are truly one of the many beautiful songs featuring the female gaze. Just seeing boys in their existence, with them playing with soft toys, doing things, embracing men of all sizes.
@Danielle Barber Sure. Listen to 'cherry wine' which is about domestic ab*se. Or 'from eden' which apparently is about an affair. His songs are written about love and lovers but what sets him apart I feel is the way he tells the story without sexualising it. For eg, listen to his song 'moments silence'. Apparently it's about oral s*x,but he made it sound almost spiritual that i couldn't even make out the meaning until much later.
@@auroralee3934 i love cherry wine so much! And the fact that in the video it shows a female victim of abuse while the lyrics hint to a male vuctim of abuse. I love him so much for showing that. Male and female victims of abuse and their voices should be always heard!
This is why I stopped watching Sandler's movies. I remember watching Clicked and all of the sudden I was over him and his movies. Is there a Neutral Gaze? Instead of male, female, gay, POC... just neutral? How could we accomplish that? Like a casual bystander where it's all wide shot and you choose what you're seeing rather than the camera choosing for you. And having several stories happening in a shot....🤔
Not possible, there's no neutral way of looking at or experiencing the world or a story, you're always looking at it through somebody's gaze, your own gaze shapes how you see things in your life and interact with others. Sure you could make something experimental but it will likely be highly incoherent and still, a wide shot is still a type of gaze depending on what's in the shot, it's not just close shots that define gaze. Being aware of gaze is important to not reproduce it mindlessly thought.
Most of the time, the POV of the gaze is linked to the gender of the main characters... So neutral would maybe create a sort of disconnect between characters and story? But I think it's possible for some stories. I think the most neutral movie I can think of spontaneously might be 'The Grand Budapest Hotel' and similar films
It's actually really interesting how little I feel seeing a shirtless dude, yet when it's a dude I've grown to know and understand more of their wants, needs and passions, than anything sexual like that I'm like WHOAh there buddy omg I'm blushing lmao my example is like, seeing SUGA's shoulders makes me blush way more than seeing an mv of a shirtless person I don't know, I think it's the shallowness of the act that depends, if I feel like the actor/performer isn't actually comfortable in the situation then it makes the whole thing not fun to watch, this goes for girls too, I think it really depends on the individual and whether they are portraying their own strength and empowerment or if they are simply going along with the concept of the project. It really depends on the agency they have in the situation...
*decked, ripped, hottie with a six pack* me: hot I guess lol *some scruffy grub who is a caring father figure and does his best* me: OHMGMSGS OMFF SIR SIR I ADORE YOU I AWK FHHSH-
great video but I think using scenes of ELVES from LOTR is kind of besides the point because, as Galadriel says in that very shot, elves are the wisest and fairest of all beings... they're supposed to be beautiful and I mean they're doing pretty much the same thing to Legolas as well so yeah
You totally missed out to mention George Miller and his wife Margaret Sixel who won an Academy Award for Best Film Editing for Mad Max Furry road!!!! This movie has a lot of "female gaze" while being a big blockbuster movie. It's the perfect example that you can have both.
I didn't know that! The editing is the thing that makes that movie great. A lot of people did a lot of great work, but it's the editing that makes it such a non-stop thrill to watch.
Really? what about all those slow motion shots of those pregnant women hosing themselves down and the naked woman on top of that tower? seemed pretty male gaze ish to me.
@Yautja Warrior No, a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual.....just as in men's case. That's a different issue. Also during that hose scene, they actually remove the chastity belts they had. Not to mention that naked woman was a warrior and had everything under control
@@QueenBee-pb6bt " a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual" so you're admitting the whole male gaze concept is bullshit? The hose scene was shot in slow mo, clearly a choice made to emphasis the beauty and elegance of Immortan Joe's concubines, the removal of their chastity belts doesn't make that any less so. Also the naked "warrior" woman is remarked by Max as "bait". Seems like a pretty objectifying way to describe her, if Furiosa was any indication I don't think that woman would be able to hold her own against a male wastelander like Max, he overpowered Furiosa pretty easily early in the film.
@@theyautjawarrior6652 As somebody who dislikes the male gaze, I agree with you. This movie had a bunch of male gazes too when they were shooting the women.
In the second nightmare on elm street film it films the male characters in the same way most films film the female character's its super interesting to watch it be flipped and a lot of people find it jarring because of how unconventional it is.
@Morgan.S Productions I know, right? I don't get why so many people came down on "Freddy's Revenge". I've heard it's on some kind of list of unintentionally gay movies. (6/12/2021)
@@daniellemusella1594 you’re correct, but it was very much intentionally (on the low gay). The background on the film is so interesting. The main actor actually is gay
It’s interesting how the male gaze being employed in the film is still considered an “unintentionally gay film” when that’s implying the male gaze is, again, catering to men. Just gay men. It shows how people inherently associate dehumanizing or sexualized depictions of people as a male-motivated framing device, whereas emotions are associated with women. It could’ve just been a film meant to cater to women’s sexual preferences, but was then considered a gay man’s film just because of the sexualization of men’s bodies. Just kinda thought it was interesting.
For all my peeps interested in Latin American culture. There's this little essay by one Vera Burrows titled "Virgins, Mothers, and Whores: Female Archetypes in Gabriel García Márquez's Cien Años de Soledad and Isabel Allende's La Casa de los Espíritus" I highly recommend it if you ever got the time.
I'm bi and I feel uncomfortable whenever a person of any gender is being shot in a very sexualising way. It often has nothing to do with furthering the narrative or character development and feels more like a shot meant for porn. There's a different time for that.
@@adamhopkins2976 what point exactly do you think you're making? Cause it just reads to me as "and that's the most defining attribute of this female character, even in text"
@@lizziebooth5397 But Celeborn is also lit that way in the same scene, as are the other elves in Lothlórien, and the book clearly describes both Arwen and Galadriel as the most beautiful of the elves, Galadriel as the morning and Arwen as the evening. I think Éowyn would have been a better example, as she is a human woman who is still lit beautifully in most scenes, even those shared with her male costars, and doesn't have the elvish ancestry to justify it (though she is never depicted with the ethereal glow as the elves are).
@@issecret1 the point is that Elves in Tolkien's middle earth were the oldest of the races and the lasting part of middle earth when it was magical, pure and beautiful in its entirety, before it was corrupted. Galadriel is one of the last Noldor elves from that time and carries those traits into the third age. Not just the beauty of all the elves, but their wisdom and power.
Probably the same as men's gaze. Unless you're going to argue that men amd women have different gazes due the sexes being inherently different... but then you'd be reinforcing the patriarchal ideas.
@@infinitum8558 the video itself suggested otherwise. (I'm a guy so I only have that lens). The video suggested that men value the physical attraction of the body a lot more whilst the women directed love scenes focused more on the character and emotionally bond. I obviously don't know how much these differences might be real or just internalised patriarchy, but that's why I said it would be interesting. I don't know whether it would be different, but considering a lot of animals do value different traits depending on their sex, it's a possibility. Also I don't think seeing differences in sex is necessarily sexist. If men were objectively better at sports or maths (I'm not saying that they are) then it wouldn't be sexist to admit this, it would only be sexist to exclude women who are better than some men just on the basis of their sex. The sexism is in the action not the recognition.
@@infinitum8558 Not inherently different, just socialised to be different. Reinforcing patriarchal ideas would involve being blind to them and so perpetuating them unknowingly.
@@koalasquare2145 Agreed. Sexes are in some ways very different. I've read about some studies that showed that girls reach neurological maturity for language literacy much earlier than boys, but that maturity in math literacy for girls comes late in their teens. The difference is not the problem. I am sure most people are familiar with the concept that boys develop this later, but no one knows about girls and math literacy. So the exclusion comes in where school happens to be structured so that boys can catch up (the entirety of high school) and girls get dropped just as they reach their peak potential. Which leads many people to believe that boys are just better at math and girls at language. I am not sure about the validity of the study, but it's a good illustration.
For people who don't believe in a cinematic female gaze, I, too, will use "Justice League" as an example, and I'll compare it to "Wonder Woman". In the latter, Diana's body is framed as something powerful, and its beauty lies within said power. We see that most vividly, when she's climbing up the ladder and out onto the battlefield. We see her butt, her legs, her upper arms, and the side of her breasts. It's something to be in awe of, as in, "Wow. She's so strong". In "Justice League", however, which came out after "Wonder Woman", it's the exact opposite. The image I remember most vividly is her conversation with Victor, aka Cyborg. She's just standing there, mostly relaxed, and the camera is focused directly on her butt. The world around them is slightly-blurry and out-of-focus. Instead of "Wow. She's so strong", the message of that moment is, "Wow. She has a great a**." It overlooks everything else. (6/12/2021)
I know! I remember seeing Justice League after Wonder Woman came out and being absolutely heartbroken that they had allowed those up the skirt shots. Did they not see the fan reviews for Wonder Woman and think, huh, maybe not. Like you, I vividly remember a scene where she gets out of a truck or something and they slowmo the camera as her skirt flips up and shows her bum. What has this got to do with story or character building?
@@abhijiththampi7960 It was a noticable cleanup. I mean, her intro scene in the building where she saves those kids? Goosebumps. But honestly I don't remember her as much as Cyborg. THAT was the real major change that showed Joss Whedon's true colours. In the first movie Cyborg was negligable. In the Snyder version he was right at the core of the action. My favourite character in the movie. The fact that Snyder thought that he could cut out such a major character, who is crucial to the story, is the reason the movie felt so empty.
I love silence of the lambs because it shows you the male gaze through the eyes of a woman. Its so uncomfortable (and familiar if you are a woman) and at first you can't pinpoint why. Then it hits you.
I've watched those male gaze movies even when I was a kid. And unfortunately, those movies eventually had their parts in building my insecurity on my own body, that I, as a woman, only get what I want and the validation I deserve if I look like a certain way. Female gaze helps me to empathize more not only to women, but to others. Seeing people or characters and being attracted to their persona really, feels much better than being attracted to their appearance. Female gaze also taught me to be more vulnerable and let me explore abstract feelings mainstream movies didn't explore. It taught me that I as a woman exist as a human, to have these kind of thoughts and feelings, not just an object that only survive when I being dependent on men, if that makes sense
In defense of the running in heels, if you wear heels enough then it’s super easy to run in them. I wear heels so often that my muscles have gotten used to them that I can run frequently and even do cartwheels in them. But I agree with everything else in this video.
Lol yeah. Ive actually always been less clumsy in heels then flats. I started purposely looking only for shoes with at least a bit of a heel from about the age of 12 (maybe sooner) just cause it was nice to walk and run without stumbling as much. I walked, I ran, I played in heels no problem. So I never really took issue with it in film. Its something that had to be pointed out to me as a problem since a lot of the times I would probably run better in what the girls were wearing rather than the boys "practical" shoes. That is until it became more common for it to be ridiculously high wedge and stilettos as they became even more in fashion. Even I tilt my head at those. But I do clearly remember being a kid and seeing a girl take off her nice sturdy chunky heels off to run barefoot down the road and being horrified thinking of the gravel and how much it must hurt and what if there is glass and why wouldn't she just run in her heels? 😂
I think it depends on the kind/height of the heels? I do theatre, so I’m very comfortable in a character shoe with a couple of inches on it. I dance, do cartwheels, run, all that jazz. However, expecting a woman character wearing stilettos to run away from a literal DINOSAUR? Idk…
Flats have always been sexier to me than heels because of knowing how heels impact the gait and deform the bodies of their wearers. Also because they’re not soft - with the spiky heel and oft-sharp toe - and they’re often present in professional settings where interpersonal relationships take a back seat to professional relationships.
It would be nice for you to discuss about the equivalent of the “male gaze” in women, because there are also stories written for women that are really disrespectful towards men, one example of those are some of the stories within the BL/yaoi genre, where stories are mainly targeted at heterosexual women and sometimes objectify gay men.
Don’t forget the toxic relationships the main character is involved in. The more masculine love-interest can be extremely abusive towards the male protagonist and it’s just uncomfortable. It’s like women are fetishizing the abuse through the lens of the male protagonist and he is basically a “self-insert” character for women to project onto. The only BL stories I’ve seen that actually has the protagonist in a healthy relationship is Given and Yuri on Ice. There are probably more but these are the ones that didn’t make me feel uncomfortable. There’s also the WebToon comic called “Boyfriends” that features a wholesome/consensual polyamorous relationship between 4 guys
@@CalmClamFam thanks god someone pointed point, yes it always bothered me that they borrow tropes from straight narratives to make the stories more attractive to a female public. Also I feel that some women do it because reading about situations where men are abused, makes them feel like they have the power, sort of like a revenge fantasy, which is really messed up. Well, I used to read a lot of yaoi when I was a teenager, but when I grew up I realized how toxic some of the stories where, so now I took distance from it and recently just watch Korean BL dramas, which I think have a better approach, it is not perfect yet, but at least there are not abuse narrative, my favorite one is “To my star”, totally breaks all top/bottom stereotypes and toxic masculinity, is beautiful.
Comics for women are so often predicting "bad boy" behaviour which often just predatory behaviour and I can't stand it. I also can't stand when a woman is predatory towards men. Bc trust me that happens a lot too. Blackmailing, forcing ppl to do things even tho they said no, mocking someone's appearance while secretly liking them, forcing physical contact etc etc the list could go on. While young audiences might fabtasize abt these things as an adult female reader i can't get into stories like that. If this behaviour is present in a story and portraid as bad behaviour that's different but most these glorify it and show it as if it was romantic.
One area of media where a female gaze could have been further explained through is the bl (boy love) genre of story making and fandom culture where the associated fans are predominantly female
I'm afraid there is an element of straight females fans fetishizing men in that case. It's similar to men watching lesbians in porn, but with a focus on the BL relationship instead of the sexuality.
@@mhawang8204 yeah thats exactly what I meant! There is an element of envy/jealousy over their subject of desire (male artist/character) having a potential relationship with another woman do its easier for them to ‘ship’ them with another male and turn it into a lgbtq thing which isnt wrong at all ofc. But many a times this homosexual relationship is also explored through a very cis heteronormative narrative which is ultimately hurtful
@@smrithipoolakkil1277 i personally find the "shipping with another male" thing to be really odd personally, like in a way that just totally delegitimizes gay relationships and gay desire
The only thing I strongly disagree with, is the strong sense I get from this video, that women are inherently unable to objectify people and so their gaze is always somehow better. That TikTok quote is the perfect example. I agree, in general, men do objectify more than women, but there is really something wrong with thinking women are inherently only able to be turned on by "personifying" their partners, it seems way too close to the sexist idea that women can't be horny. Female and Male Gaze could have been more aptly named "Personifying Gaze" and "Objectifying Gaze", or if you really still wanted to put some sex implications behind it, "Feminine Gaze" and "Masculine Gaze". But I like the former two more. Names have power, they symbolise ideas. The former two only tell us what the gaze does and the latter two tell us that femininity and masculinity have something to do it, but since all of us have some feminine and masculine qualities, any of us could have any kind of gaze.
Women see other women too! all the time! I'm queer but I see other women in a non-sexualised/non-romantic way ALL the time. the constant sexualisation of "gaze" itself in pop culture just ends up teaching young kids that the only reason/feeling behind a gaze is romantic or sexual.
I do wish there wasn't such a dismissal of women finding men attractive simply for looks. It almost makes me feel guilty for wanting to look at attractive men without knowing their life history. Also everything we do doesn't have to do with our emotions. Yes our emotions play a part in how we are attracted to men but sometimes it's just nice to look at a pretty face or nice bod. I don't think that just enjoying someone's beauty is a bad thing. I dont' think it's bad when men do it to either. What I have a problem with is the frequency of the male gaze. The fact that as a women it doesn't interest me as much as it might them and that fact is rarely considered. That maybe I want to see some women that are just average women. Not beautiful prefect dolls but they are still an important character in the movie.
I kind of hate this over glorification of women being super emotional in a psuedo cosmic spiritual sense. As a female, I can't relate to it. Most ways other girls view men I find to be boring and internalized sexism. I oddly enough get off more and can relate to gay men. I like a guy who can ride me, plow, fuck hard, etc. Unfortunately, while more sexually empowered women are coming out, they're being accused of perpetuating the male gaze because everything we do is for men apparently. At this point, the only way I could prove to these idiots my own autonomy is not for men is mentioning my vore fetish since 90 percent of the general male population don't find that attractive.
yeah i don’t get why people think that it’s wholesome when a woman looks at an attractive man but dehumanising when a man looks at an attractive woman. we’re all attracted to beautiful people regardless of sex
@@will506 I think sometimes it's wholesome in either case. But it's also not wrong if it's not wholesome. The only thing that bothers me is the way that it's done (disrespectfully) or the fact that women don't get valued as much for things beyond that. I mean with male characters there's always the loveable dork that gets the beautiful girl no matter his looks. I think a lot of men might see themselves in those roles. I'd love to see more characters like that for women even without the beautiful man.
It's pretty sad that everyone here actually believes that all males focus on is sexual aspects. Honestly, that's very sad, and it perfectly demonstrates to me how little women understand about men and how many assumptions they make based on stereotypes.
I think the issue with isolating gaze down to genders is assuming that the morality of women is inherently good just because it's the opposite of men. We know that in feminism, that is hardly the case. This entire video is actually a great example of white women as the central focus of the female gaze. Women may personify men in our films and fantasy...but not all women personify other women.
I’m genuinely curious! What would you have done differently? Judging from your profile pic and comment, I am assuming you are a Black woman, (though please correct me if I’m mistaken!) How do you feel like the male gaze intersects with women of colour onscreen? Do you feel like the existence of a female gaze to counteract it is inherently harming or excluding women of colour, or just that this particular video did a poor job explaining it?
@@Canonicallycreative I think white women tend to tip-toe around their own sins. I love this channel. I've watched it since its inception. I'm also a fan of holding people accountable by giving them the feedback they need to grow. I'd rather watch The Take grow instead of die. Even though this video is about women, white women were both the central focus of both objectification and the answer for correcting the problem. There is absolutely nothing wrong with white women presenting theories and arguments and illustrating these theories with white women. However, when white, liberal, feminists, who view themselves as "open-minded" fail to fill in gaps of overt racism in the male gaze and female gaze, they continue to fail women. This video may require further research and exploration from their colleagues of color.
I somewhat agree but, when you say how the gaze is women morality is inherently good, if you have a certain level of intelligence you will know that a very flawed thought that could be argued doesn't apply. Even in the vid, the male gaze could be practice by women too. The vid is not that long it can't talk about everyone. Instead of complaining ask them to make a vid discussing what you want.
'Not all women personify other women' but they didn't say that lol, its discussed in the beginning of the vid that women often internalise the male gaze too. The male gaze is not exclusive to men just as the female gaze is not exclusive to women
Saying the female gaze can't really exist because it's just the male gaze with the sexes reversed is ignoring the fact that women can sexualize, objectify and dehumanize men too.
For me, the perfect gaze is the gaze where you look at a person with care, kindness, admiration and respect, but most importantly, you look at them as human, which is who they are before anything else. People are humans, and we should all learn to look at them like humans, instead of as objects.
How about "The Human Gaze"? Can't we all just get along? "...c'mon people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another, riiiiiiight now"
i never noticed this. crazy how even i've been conditioned to think that "close up shots of women's bodies in a stripper club/shady places/gas stations/beaches" are totally normal
Well Hollywood is known for sexualizing women and even some of the actresses find it liberating and empowering. Personally, I don't think you need sex to sell a story and sometimes oversexualisation can just be a ploy for covering up a badly written story
I'm pretty sure you'd have realized you were attracted to women without having to dehumanize them and reduce them to visually appealing objects. It's kind of the subject of the video.
@@rosiebowers1671 just because a female character looks good and the filmmaking takes a moment to capitalize on it doesn't mean they can't be a good character. Alien has a moment where Ripley strips down to her underwear, does that make her dehumanized?
Omg, this explains my entire problem with mainstream movies and my preferences. it's exactly that! i was never able to point out what it was! I think that is goes so much deeper than we might even think. Cause everybody internalised the white male gaze.
Tbf, the John Cusak's High Fidelity had him breaking the fourth wall. It was a stylistic choice, the book reads sort of like a music 'zine from the 90s in some parts (top 5 songs that XYZ, top 10 songs to XYZ to) interspersed with... Grown man coming of age sad romance?
"Can it exist?" You need to watch more films. Bonnie and Clyde (1967) employs the female gaze the first time we see Clyde Barrow. Also it's strange that people only refer to the male gaze as it relates to women, but the male gaze also applies to other things as well. I imagine if you asked men and women to make a film about cars, it would be a noticeable difference in how each gender presented them. There are lots of things besides women that men tend to view differently. Things only become problematic when they become the default, and it's rather sad this discussion always tends to fall into the "Thing bad -- Thing good" dichotomy.
I was asked once by a guy what I wanted in a boyfriend, and my answer was 'I want to be seen as a person and be respected as such. I want to be a partner, not damsel in distress' Im still amazed at how long it took to explain before he understood what I meant.
It is because always white men are in charge of those movies (especially producers like safe way) , if women and poc are given to chance to tell their stories this wouldn't be a problem. For example latest Emma adaption: a not Mary Sue woman's story which created by a woman writer and told by a woman director. It was splendid work to watch for me. Emma is a powerful woman, she loves power, she loves to be in charge. Her happiness lies there, her dream is not getting a man. Her character growth is breaking her arrogance which causes her lack of empathy. Not finding true love and sacrifice all her dreams for sake of it. She is representative of a real human. One of a kind human, not some character trapped in * love interest* archetype. Imagine pursuing a script with this kind of character in Hollywood... They cannot tolerate humans unless they are men.
I really think its less a straight white cis man problem and more a cultural one. Its not some inherent flaw shared in the dna of millions forcing them to act a certain way. The generalization doesnt help anything. Its calling out prejudicial problems of one kind with prejudicial thinking of another. If you look at creative works made by straight white cis men from other countries or other points in history or ones who dont objectify in Hollywood you can find examples that clearly show its not a race/gender/sexuality crosssection issue.
I didn't mean to discriminate, it is their point of view and they free to tell so. If one relates and enjoy watching them, it is okay too. But dominanting all mass media industry and not giving a chance to others results in creating weird concepts for what women should be, what acceptible asian traits are blah blah.. No one forces white cis man to like Emma, though from the comments i witnessed most of them thinks that movie is overall absurd, and emma is very unlikable, a boring experience and emma is still annoying at the end no character growth or anything 😐 The situation is quite amusing actually.
@@khaxjc1If Hollywood sells dreams for white cis men, why shouldn't i say they sell dreams for white cis men? The reason may be cultural or not doesn't matter. For example let's say Japanese women is in charge of the largest and most influential media tool globally, then we would be discussing about what are they selling as the optimal men (all around the world) for Japanese women gaze. My point is they should give opportunity to other stories told by others. I don't like how half of the human population can be called as "others" in this century.
The male gaze often looks at women who don't know they're being looked at, whereas the trend of female gaze movies including fourth wall breaking shows the woman on screen is aware that you're watching her and is allowing it. I'm sure there's a link between this and the idea that women should be beautiful but shouldn't KNOW that they're beautiful.
The important distinction is between seeing a pretty person and thinking "that's a pretty person," and seeing them and thinking "that's a pretty thing."
Excellent example... the Amazons in Wonder Woman vs the same Amazons in the Justice League movie(s). Their costumes alone, let alone what the camera focuses on. Huge difference.
Yes !!! Thank you for this video !!! As a straight woman, Ive stopped watching many movies and series because I was disgusted by how strong the male gaze was, with camera shots on body parts and so on... YEW
I've been thinking about this a lot. Part of me wonders if the best place for these ads *is* in critical spaces where they're more likely to be dismissed, at cost to the advertisers, rather than right-leaning echo chambers where they might direct traffic. Of course, on the flip side there is the possibility of the ads "reaching" viewers even on videos like this one. It just makes me wonder how best to employ malicious compliance in order to undermine these reactionary con artists.
@@Molly-ml1wn I'm not sure how TH-cam's algorithm works. Specifically, as it pertains to predatory advertisers such as Prager. Their ads are wasted on me and people who think like me for sure, but that doesn't make hearing their promotions any less emotionally taxing. I hate hearing their demented and harmful rhetoric.
@@Sarandib22 I can't speak to the books because I haven't read them, but I think (at least in the first season) we did see her orgasm a couple times. And I remember in a few episodes there were times where she did guide Jaime's hands towards her. Compared to what was shown around its premiere I thought it was pretty novel. But as for everything else, yeah I can't speak much on how the translation is from text to screen.
Ok galadriel wasn’t lit like that for beauty I’d like to point out. It’s because she has the light of the eldar and is very reflective of the light of the two trees she was born under. The ways she’s lit It’s actually a depiction of her immense power
Also the scene where Frodo offers her the ring and she goes like greenish and super bright. She's definitely beautiful but the lighting scared me as a kid lol
@Sabrina Kall they did for Gandalf when he turns into to the white wizard Like I said it’s about the light of the two trees living in galadriel Elrond doesn’t have that because he wasn’t born under them and he’s half elven
@Sabrina Kall thats because: Elrond is not a caliquendi, galadriel is, that is why she is depicted like that. Gandalf, is and istari, he is ordered to hide his true power in order to fulfill his mission, amd when he revives as Gandalf the white we can see more glimpse of his true powerful and light form And sauron is an evil mf of course the dude doesnt shine in a beautiful manner he is basically a demon
Man, I watched In The Heights around watching this video and was captivated by how Vanessa is filmed in the opening number. I first noticed it when we see her walk into the bodega, it's an "isolated body part" shot (her midsection basically) but there's nothing sexy about it, I don't know if it struck me because it's a very novel shot or if I just had this video on my brain. Thinking on it I feel there's a subversion of the male gaze going on there, and/or she's being shot to emphasize her stylishness. The first shot of her is of her mouth, which is a "sexy shot" but it's a mouth doing its own thing, singing "no no no no", and it's shot from the side, like it has nothing to do with us at all. The visible makeup itself can say "sexy" but also "strong sense of style". Then she walks into the bodega and it's another "isolated body part" shot, the one of her midsection, I think maybe her midriff is even showing but we barely see it at all. The POV is from an awkward angle, again not like we're ogling her but just noticing her as she sweeps by, and if there's anything to notice about her in the shot I only noticed her clothes, which again could be there to suggest what we later find out is her passion for fashion design. Overall I get the sense they were trying to suggest "this is a very stylish woman" and "this is a beautiful woman but she's not there for you, she's got her own stuff to deal with".
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/thetake06212
The lesbian version of it?
Would be interested in a video on the straight gaze please x
I'm not sure that using examples of Galadriel, who is supposed to be the most beautiful of all of the Elves, even across the various species of Middle Earth, is appropriate. She isn't even being diminished by it, because she is very clearly shown to be exceptionally wise, powerful, and capable. She is just *also* beautiful, and it's perfectly fair to show that... especially when the other Elves are also lit in a similar way to enhance their beauty (male AND female). It's enhancing the difference between species, NOT sex. Otherwise, this is a fantastic video.
Please do a White Gaze and Straight Gaze video !!
Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES.
So take that for what it is.
Let's not pretend we women don't like looking at pretty people, we just want them to be treated as more than just a pretty person. We wanna see their character and skills and more than just their bodies. I think that's the main difference for me.
Yes!!
And that's exactly what the video says 👍🏼
To be seen
Not only just women, men too, but a fair percentage is women
Watched Jennifer's Body for the first time yesterday regarding finding Megan Fox beautiful/sexy.
As a girl, all of the male gazey shots in movies always make me incredibly uncomfortable. They also take away from the meaning of the movies. I'm glad that the female gaze is starting to be more of a thing.
Literally same, that's why most anime isn't appealing to me even tho I want to watch it for the sake of my friends who love it
Why are terms with male description inherently evil and ones with female description inherently good?
I agree and usually poorly timed lol Male writers/directors will drag out a body shot way too long, like we get it she's hot but can we focus on the story? Most male gazey scenes aren't relevant to the story and could have been edited out totally and the story would still be good. Just plain creepy.
@@jerrymathewninan6739 To your point, no gaze is inherently good or bad. But too much of one gaze can silence and overshadow others. We need to see more.
The best point the video made is that we shouldn't make cliche gazes in response to the dominant ones. Instead, we should aspire to see numerous gazes and experiences--whether it's the black female gaze, the gay gaze, religious gaze, etc. And the way to start is to give more opportunities to those groups whose gazes haven't yet been seen.
@@jerrymathewninan6739 I think we should stop labelling things with words like "male/female" and use neutral words instead. IMO, those words only contribute to dividing us more instead of finding common ground to improve society as a whole.
I remember Phoebe Waller Bridge said she spoke with Andrew Scott about why women were so obsessed with "Hot Priest" and they came to the conclusion that "oh, he literally just listened to her" lol
Andrew Scott is gay IRL, by the way. Might have played a role in him "getting it".
His beautiful neck...
@@carlibezuidenhout5997 His arms..
I didn’t find that actor attractive until his role in that show, so yes. His personality is what makes him desirable. If only the same applied with women.
YES like he was actually interested in getting to know her
The biggest lie ever told is that the white male perspective is the HUMAN experience and other perspectives are too specific to be relatable to everyone.
Yes 100%! How tf have they been able to get away with normalising that idea for so long?
and by white male is always anglosaxonian and american cause european gaze is niche, indie, pretentios and arthouse not fun to watch.
someone actually said that?
Who's ever said that the white male perspective is the entire human experience?
100 %!!!
it's true, women do fanrasize about a guy treating them like a person.
For some women, unfortunately, it mainly exists in fantasy.
Yes as a woman i can confirm
Okay, but men also fantasize about women treating them like a person too.
@@greywolf7577 the difference is treating men like people is normal and expected. Most stories and media have men as protagonists and even the ones that dont still treat male side characters with agency. Wmn, on the other hand, are treated like objects for the maIes desire in most media and only recently has it begun to change.
@@botanicalitus4194 The fact that you couldn't even bother to type out 'women' but wrote men/male(s) several times proves your point.
Pride and Prejudice is a great example of the female gaze. 😊
YESSSSS
Oh how so?
That’s because Jane Austen novels are all written where the men are a bit superfluous! There’s the hero of course but most of the books center on female friendships/ sisterhood. It would be a bit hard I think to make them into an adaptation using the male gaze.
🎆HANDS🎆
@@jaimicottrill2831 is "superfluous" the word you think you want?
Fleabag is one of the most achingly wonderful embodiments of a female story tbh
Phoebe Waller bridge is great at constructing the female gaze
I now feel like watching it all over for a 3rd time taking all this into account
so its Kiling Eve, Phoebe wrote it
@@Kociarra00 literally my favourite example of the female gaze, I'm obsessed with that show
This video convinced me to watch it!
I work in film in the camera department as a focus puller. It's funny when you said that the camera is always framing for the male gaze, but that's because we always always have male camera operators or focus pullers. Only 8% of those working in the camera dept are female, it's the least diverse part of film yet it shapes everything we see and how we see it. I've worked on films that don't call for the sexualization of a female character but the camera operator will still frame her as such because it's how he sees her. I've actually intentionally put the focus somewhere else so the clip is out of focus and the editors can't use it so a stupid shot of a young girl's ass, or a woman's chest as she's walking doesn't need to be in a rom-com or action movie.
Bless you for your quiet work against that objectification ❤️
This is the most important comment on this video. You deserve more likes.
Thank you for your work
I think about this a lot too! Women (who don’t objectifying other women,) behind camera and editing are highly important.
Doing the lords work, thank you
“There’s something different about when a female directs versus a male. The level of maturity, mutual respect, and energy that you get from a female director is so different. I’ve worked with male directors who aren’t good, and no one says anything about it, but then we had one female director who was kind of all over the place and everyone complained. It’s so gendered. I feel safer when working with a female director because I know it’s from a female gaze.”
― Rowan Blanchard
I adore both Rowan and that quote! I love that the Female Gaze fixates more on faces and equality, while the Male Gaze tends to oversexualise and exaggerate.
Don't quote her🙄
Female actions films suck
Ummm Wonder Woman 84 noneconsentual use of a male body* chough*
so true, I've seen so many bad flop films directed by men & I don't even remember their names 😅
but anytime a female director has a major film, (& I'm often rooting for her bc of scarcity in the field) but if her film fails, it's often used to justify why she shouldn't have gotten that opportunity in the first place.
even if a female director has a score of good projects & 1 flop, I feel like I hear about the flop for years lmao. like Ava DuVernay for example.
"Men's desire objectifies women; women's desire personifies men"
Truer words have seldom been spoken
I am the most famous man on YouTub! This is not bragging! This is the truth! The truth will set you free, dear re
So true. That line hit hard.
@@Chris-rg6nm I think most people want to be desirable (being desirable involves more qualities) you want to feel attractive not objectified. It's not the same. I don't think you want to be perceived as an entity who lacks agency or personality, that your thought processes don't matter and that your sexuality is not your own. Men as well as woman want to be multidimensional, attractive because you have different qualities. If you are perceived only as an object not even your sexual pleasure it's important for the other person, you are just a container of desire but without mutual feedback, it's an egotistic interaction, and is not beneficial for the person being objectified.
I just mean that being perceived as attractive and being and object is not the same. Have a nice day :)
@@Chris-rg6nm why objectify women when it could've just have been don't to men already?
@@Chris-rg6nm
This is stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.
3:02 Nobody talks about the tailored tank top in this scene... Megan Fox's character has skills, she is a talented mechanic and tailors her own clothes, but every person who interacts with her in the story (and everyone in the audience as well) only notices her for being attactive. Meanwhile, mediocre looking dudes get praised for their intelligence, even if their skills are limited.
Never gonna forget Lindsay Ellis's video from four(?) years ago on _that_ subject. _Dayum,_ was that enlightening.
*forced to notice her for being attractive
That's the geek fantasy (I'm thinking specifically of Transformers): that a guy doesn't have to have muscles or even look like a grown man to pull in beautiful women because he's so intelligent/witty/creative/special in some other way, that beautiful women will want to be with him, despite having to fix the engine that he can't. It gets written off as comedy or a coming of age story, but 98 lb. weaklings and 300 lb. neckbeards eat this stuff up. There are too many movies like this out there.
@@Ross_From_Synthetica Bumblebee (2018) >>>>>> every other Transformers movie ever
Mediocre dudes do not get praised for neither anything nor by anyone. Nobody cares about mediocre dudes. You've clearly never lived life as a mediocre dude. Mediocre dudes are by definition unintelligent, if people are "praising" them, that's just happening because the guy is pitied and the person doing the "praising" doesn't want to hurt the guy's feelings or cause an extreme negative reaction.
brings to mind a post I saw online comparing Harley Quinn in Suicide Squad vs Birds of Prey. SS showed Harley in ratty sexy clothes with long hair with the camera from the picture they used as reference centered on her chest. BoP showed Harley with a short uneven fun haircut in clothes more fitting of her personality and the camera for the picture reference centered on her face
I loved birds of prey and idc if no one else in the world does. The outfits were awesome, they built the characters in it to where the next one would be kick ass, amd I mean the glitter gun scene.
Same goes for Wonder Woman. The way she is portrayed in the first movie compared to how she was portrayed in Josh Whedon's Justice league, really bothered me. It wasn't what I expected, because I have always liked Zack Snyder's portrayal of strong female characters, only to have a god who no longer carried themselves like one, and close up shots of their butt, and shots up their skirt. I was relieved to find out it was Josh Whedon's doing, all his re-shoots and edits were to cut down the story for Wonder Woman, and people of colour, and to add shots of Wonder Woman's body.
Movie still sucked. Both of them, and Robbie's Harley is annoying.
@@-Anjel he completely cut out Cyborgs story, which is why it's ironic that the actor spoke up about racism on set, Oh I SEE, I had an aha moment when you spoke about Joss Whedon's reshoots, a racist and a sexist? wild.
I didn't like birds of prey. The plot was was good at first, but it devolved into childishness near the end. Harley herself was fine. I had thought overt sexuality was part of her crazy, but I like her crazy more now.
Imagine how much better the world would be if "this person is a person" was the default way of thinking.
"this person is a person" has nothing to do with a director being female, so it is pretty sexist of them to refer to it as a "female gaze".
Yeh, but this video still gets stuff wrong
by talking cringey, as if 'being hot' has ANY meaning whatsoever.
Imagine how much better the world would be if money and art never had to coexist. All this 'male' 'female' propaganda could go away, and there could be plenty of male and female movies each with both 'female' and 'male' perspectives, because we'd realise that had nothing to do with any of it in the first place
The world would also go extinct if that was the default way of thinking
@@shmeepness1700 it wouldnt
I think that female gaze focuses more on smaller details ie hand touching, knowing looks, secret smiles and laughters and etc. You can tell that a character is falling in love/cares so much about someone when the camera focuses on smaller details within their interactions. Everytime I watch movies or read novels with that sort of scenes, my heart can't help but flutters! Oh the longing is so beautiful.
you put it all SO perfectly OMG
This is rich. Women partake in the so called "male gaze" too and vice versa.
It's one thing to say many (or most) men oversexualise people. But to create a whole concept of maleness from thin air? The idea being it's not about the behaviour of men that could improve to be better men but that improving itself as a man is by definition to move towards being female. It's as irritating as men telling women what they _are_ and that they should be more _like men_ to be better.
Yea, women attraction to men is more based on his behavior while men's attraction to women is more related to her body parts. I think biology is playing an important part here.
Hm
And culture
I never saw Lord of the Rings with the male gaze. The elves are already powerful beings and Galadriel was one of the most powerful. She wasn't sexualized and the light only showcased her strength.
Using, frankly, any elf in Tolkein's work to demonstrate the male gaze doesn't really wok that well.
Right, Galadriel isn't even depicted that differently from the woman of desire in A portrait of a lady on fire
@@Charolette21
Galadriel isn't shot in the male gaze. All elves in LotR are shot as beautiful and powerful. Just look at Legolas-girls were swooning for Orlando Bloom for years after those films. Galadriel isn't just an ordinary elf. She's half Maiar, (an angelic race that was created at the dawn of time) there's a reason why she's supposed to look other worldly, that's because she exists half in our reality and half in the spirit realm. Peter Jackson captured this perfectly the way he shot Cate Blanchett. All this male gaze nonsense is just virtue signalling. When Peter Jackson frames male elves for beauty, (Elron, Legolas and pretty much any elf you see) no one says a peep. Do it to a woman and now it's the male gaze 🤦🏿♂️
@@JerodimusPrime Did I say she was? No, I did not!
@@Charolette21 what's your point then? Are you saying there's no male gaze on the elves or there is one!
I think the perspective of female gaze is also wallflower-ish, the gaze which notices and appreciates the beauty of things which go unnoticed. 🏵🧡
that's a rly nice way to put it and I agree
@@haloum 🖤🦋
Watch Sofia Coppola movies if you haven’t!
i really really like this description. it's perfect
@@pompomzassou 🥰💜💝
I'm so tired of female characters in movies falling in 1 of about 5 tropes and the only moment of "depth" will be a short moment of her looking in a mirror and maybe being somewhat body conscious.
WHAT FUCKING MOVIES DO YOU WATCH
@@Uptomyknees What fucking movies do you watch to think the OP comment is wrong? I would love to see your movie list.
@@bread2951 The majority of female led films from the 70s, 80s and 90s don't work like this. Was Meryl lit for "beauty" in River Wild? What about the Witches of Eastwick? What about 9 to 5? Did these women have no depth? What about Tootsie? What about The Bridges of Madison County? What about Bridesmaids? What about Monster? What about Zero Dark Thirty? I can keep going, literally forever. I can go back further too. What about The Thin Man movies? What about Torchy Blaine? What about Persona? It's corny to even mention it, but what about the Terminator and Alien franchises? Bounce to TV we have Alias and X-Files and Dark Angel and Buffy, damn, holy shit! Not to mention Murder She Wrote, Miss Marple, the list goes on. The Birds? Psycho? Rebecca? What about the movie Vacancy? That's just a random horror one, but psychological thrillers have been FILLED with great female characters since like the 1950s?
Copycat? Single White Female?
Fuck even the female lead in IN THE LINE OF FIRE has pathos and depth.
We can keep going. What about The Help? That movie isn't even good and it has well written women in it. What about Miss Congeniality? What about The Long Kiss Goodnight? Literally you never have to stop, you can just keep listing good movies.
Women are generally only written bad IN BAD MOVIES. Movies that are well loved, respected and remembered pretty much universally contain at least one female character with dimensionality.
THIS BRAND OF FEMINISM ERASES FEMALE ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN ENTERTAINMENT OF THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF CINEMA IN FAVOR OF BORING BULLSHIT OF THE LAST FIVE YEARS
@@Uptomyknees I don't 100% agree with the comment either, but dude... chill. Don't be so dramatic.
Go find a hobby or something to blow some steam.
@@Uptomyknees Yeah, I think most attempts at female-perspective in the last decade have failed because they are too self-conscious about it. They end up presenting women acting like male stereotypes and try and pass it off as empowerment. You listed several movies with great women’s roles for decades that did it naturally, with a more genuine female empowerment. I’d add Gone With the Wind to the list. Scarlett was feminine, strong and thoroughly human. And Vivien Leigh just killed it throughout the whole movie.
I remember reading something about how George of the Jungle was an example of a movie done in this way. They even made a joke about it in the movie about how men were baffled at why so many women liked George
George of the Jungle is such an underrated movie. Thank you for bringing this argument to my attention.
Great movie!
I love the video on this movie and how it's made from the female gaze. Ursula and all the women are attractive, but don't dress provocatively in any way. George is hot, but we have insight on his emotions as well. Brendan Frasier and this movie are both so underrated.
YES someone else saw this post ! I just commented with the link ... I like your shoelaces...?
@@kimarkel can you add the link here too?! I saw it in passing a long time ago and have no clue how to find it
as much as people are talking about portrait of a lady on fire, it's not being talked about enough. what a masterpiece
It’s being talked about, you might not be occupying or visiting the spaces where it is :) /respectfully - not trying to start a fight here lol/ - it’s not underrated, it’s getting love.
@@yonn my youtube user name is kinda the furthest from my real name :)
@@yonn do you have any recommendations of blogs or whatever to read more about it?
@@__M__133 Not sure if you've seen it, but Lessons from Screenplay did a video breaking down the painting scene in the film.
@@addictedtoprocrastination9986 oh yeah, i watched it recently, also i've watched most of the reviews/analysis i could find in here
Have you read Joss Whedon's concept script for Wonder woman? Blatant not respectful male gaze,every shot of Diana describe her physical before her expression, it's a nigthmare that i'll be forever grateful never happened
It's so sad and frustrating to see a creator who seems to have learnt nothing from their own work. How can this man not be a 100% feminist after making Buffy the Vampire Slayer?
@@taylor_green_9 Is really weird but most Whedon fans are like "he can't be sexist, he created Buffy"
@@lilil9752 lol let me ho to church everyday and kill a few men every night. Well, I go to church, jesus legit knows my intentions.
Whedon is feminist for 90s standard. Today his works regarding female characters has not aged well, especially it turns out he's an asshole toward his ex-wife and the female cast behind the production which makes it harder to swallow in hindsight.
@@bread2951 I also ho to church to kill men
"And here are the all male nominees."
Natalie Portman throwing some shade there.
She's basically the reason no one watches the Oscars anymore XD
@@Annihilated481 How? Genuinely asking.
That was funny to me because she has a production company and she only worked with one woman director and that's her. She only worked with one other woman director through her entire career. She is just one of those people who uses feminism. But it is just an act. She actually don't care.
@@wendywinger7169 I would also like to see this question answered.
@@probablyalive.2665 Oscar ratings have dropped massively over the last couple of years with 2020 being an all time low because now it's all just a platform for preachy activism and nobody is interested.
I think the female gaze is looking at whoever’s talking and being looked at when talking. Looking at pretty people just existing without having to highlight their sexuality with clothes or perfect beauty lighting. Highlighting people’s individuality and how they naturally move. Most importantly, seeing people as PEOPLE, not objects.
Idealizing is just as bad as Objectifying. Both genders has its flaws.
@@yuan713 Seeing people as people is neither idealizing nor objectifying.
Both the female gaze and the male gaze are defined by lesbians not men or women. Straight woman complain about the lesbian glare.
And you can't use these lesbians as some kind of representation of of women. That's like using gay men to represent straight men
@@the_mulattos Ah yas straight women always complain about the lesbian glare. On social media, I always hear women complaining about being cat called and harrased by lesbians. Yep totally ✋🙄
The female gaze can only hit you if you watch Francis Lee's "Ammonite" and Céline Sciamma's "Portrait de la jeune fille en feu" in a row. The first is an over-sexualized fetish of lesbianism, the latter is a love story which happens to involve two women. Sciamma's respect for her subject is obvious. Also that's a other discussion over queer gaze, but as a lesbian woman herself, she avoids the clichés that she is probably tired of in films (like in Abdellatif Kechiche's "La vie d'Adèle : chapitres 1 et 2").
Oh mah gawd there's WAY too many things wrong with Ammonite than just the sex scenes. I'm sorry, but I have more chemistry with the lamp post outside my house than what Kate Winslet had with Saoirse Ronan. The director of the movie happens to be very gay, and apparently the sex scenes were left to the choreography of the actors.
@@sanghamitrade6972 that's it, a gay man and straight women can't know about lesbian love. But Lee still wrote about all those sex scenes, it's a weird fetishization of a romance. We can't say Winslet and Ronan are bad actresses (definitely not omg) so the problem with their chemistry is with Lee's acting direction (or lack of).
@@yannickdrmda5295 The sex scenes in Portrait are just *different*, Sciamma knows how to remove the objectification while preserving the desire. On the other hand, Ammonite was just poop through and through. Kate Winslet gives so much to the film it hurts, but it's just a no no no no no
No one:
My grandmother *listening in the distance*: what are they saying about female gays and why aren’t they saying lesbians
Me: 🤦🏽♀️
I love that. She doesn’t quite get it, but she’s there 😂🤍
Grandma is a true ally!!!
10mins into the video and that was all I heard; the female gays, the male gays, the white gays, the oriental gays..
@@MuthoniMinaKimani She definitely is! ❤️
"Oh, you mean the gaze, not the gays"
This channel is literally so helpful for aspiring authors, screen writers and readers and movie enthusiasts alike.
I agree. However, this channel only confuses me. If male gaze is accepted and appreciated (in terms of money) should a filmmaker go against it or with the flow. We know sex, dumb blonde, etc sells so should an aspiring creator follow the tropes, as its more likely to make money or should she go against it.
And screenwriters - aspiring and otherwise. I often feel frustrated in story meetings trying to express my frustrations with whatever story we are breaking down and this channel gives me the language.
@@bread2951 no, go make a masterpiece that you love not make money, but it depends on what you want masterpiece or money but you can get both, though rarely.
@@savagechicken4518 that's not what Avril Lavigne's second album said
The problem with this channel is that it almost always views female characters (or writers and directors) as good or sympathetic while it views male characters (or writers and directors) as bad or immoral. The only exception being if it is talking about fantasies (so this channel views Manic Pixie Dream Girl as bad and Manic Pixie Dream Boy as good). This channel seems very biased based on gender and comes off as kind of sexist.
i would say that in Promising Young Woman, they wrote ryan through the female gaze to have us fall in love with him
so the beginning scene would be looking at those men through the male gaze? maybe to show us what that looks like so they could then contrast it?
So true. From the moment he drank the spit coffee I was in love with him. It helps that I’m a huge Bo Burnham fan to begin with, but still ❤️
One thing I loved about that movie was how Carey was never sexualized. Even at the end when she was using her body to get male attention, we got one shot of her pulling down her zipper, but no shots of her body. She was still a person through and through. It was amazing.
exactly, they used the female gaze and made us actually LIKE him and root for him... 😔
what a great observation!!!
Enola Holmes offers an interesting perspective on the female gaze: Although there’s almost no explicit sexualization of anyone in the film, the camera very pointedly centers her experiences as well as her face. It also hovers just on the edge of breaking the fourth wall, with Enola speaking directly to the audience about her thoughts.
"I made them watch their own terror. I made them see their own fear" that reminds me of how marginalised people especially black people are constantly watching black death with these police videos. I get the merit in making the world confront police brutality but if our humanity was respected we wouldn't need to see the air escape a person's lungs to know its a problem. I also think of the detail with which women are confronted with violence against us especially in film.
yes, you said it. 👏🏿 I'm afraid that people will become numb to the horrific violence as we casually watch Black death on our phones, & watch femicide on screens. sadly I've become a little desensitized to the latter. It shouldn't take this much pain for people to pay attention.
And all the movies about black trauma
@@ambriaashley3383 actually it is the men who are considered disposable in film and real live
If you're living in the ghetto, you're seeing a shitload of black death at the hands of other black people. Not in video, but in real time
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl while I agree with you this is a situation in which men's rage and indifference is turned onto other men. As was explored in film its generally not women creating these stories and in real life its generally not women with institutional power.
I absolutely agree that its an issue and its an issue that needs addressing but I don't think the way that issue is going to be addressed is to speak over women's pain and say "well its really men who suffer" that is minimising and doesn't actually get to the root of the problem.
I heard that Korean dramas appeal more to the female gaze.
When I began watching k-dramas that really struck me, how different it is the way they portray men and women compared to a "western" pov.
Its not just the female gaze, the way love is potrayed is beyond Hollywood. I got into K-drama after watching a lot of Hollywood movies. I just got stuck there. Now, whenever I see people kissing in an English me I find it gross, y'all just eat the whole face. There are stupid K-drama kisses too, where the girl just behave like a rock.
Its more about emotions, you feel it. You dont need to see them banging every now and then to feel the chemistry. K-drama couples just look at each other and get you blushing.
@@bread2951 I agree with you but I think it's more than that. I have watched Korean movies where they have pretty explicit sex scenes and it still is different. I guess it's how they write the characters themselves/the narrative. I think a lot o Hollywood movies right now basically think you can exchange character development by putting sex scenes or making out between the couple.
TRUE
Edit : to give exemple there's a drama I think it's in OH my Ghost, the guy put off his shirt and the girl is like ~~~~~~, That's something you see in kdrama. And the guys are actually hot
@@thisisntallowed9560 yeah, that's a good example of an "objectifying camera". There's also a scene where the male lead is doing pushups and the camera is shooting him from behind, just his butt..lol It's the kind of thing we don't see being done here for male characters even if it's pretty common for women.
Now that you've mentioned kpop, it's a big thing there that the fancams for woman (or any view of the presentation) are usually shot from low angles and focus on their legs and skirts. Even if they did that with men (which is definitely not as often), men wear pants, but almost all women idols have to wear shorts or skirts. It's just really messed up.
I find this so weird.
I actually checked the angles of some male groups who wore some risqué (for male idols) clothing, like ACE's performances of Cactus, and the angles are mostly from the front or upper side. Nothing as weird as what happens to female idols.
They can’t show their shoulders tho
A lot of the rockstars emphasized their sexuality for female fans with stuff like their chest too
" this person is HOT, but this person is a PERSON! " perfectly explained, thank you so much for this !!
You know, while we are theorizing and debating about the subject, it's actually harrowing to watch some of the clips from the male gaze shown in the video. And that blows me away in itself; we're arguing to be treated as more than meat.
I was extremely horrified at the movie about the man who filmed the women he killed & attached a mirror so the last thing they would see was their own fear. What. The. F**k???????? That is a terrifying level of sick & they just went right on past it like it wasn’t disturbing AF😲
@@shermaynebrown5165 lowkey traumatizing
@@army4chair345 Not even lowkey, just TRAUMATIZING!
"...we're arguing to be treated as more than meat."
It's little wonder that there's been so many former models/actresses known for being hot that become animal rights activists when they retire.
Honestly it’s true that women love men with nice hands. I just love a man with nice hands. A man’s smile also gets me. That’s definitely female gaze. 😍
yes, i love people with beautiful hands regardless of gender (and not sexually)
YUP I REALISED I HAVE A THING FOR HANDS HELP
Is it? Is a female gaze identical to physical turn-ons for women?
No, that’s HOW LOW THE BARS ARE FOR MEN
😭 Y'all guys remind me of my classmate
15:24 "looking respectfully" i really love that meme/term, i always use it in my language now whenever i see an attractive woman. i guess it can be attributed to the fact that i'm a lesbian and i've always had a fear of coming off as predatory, so hearing this term, it kind of like assured(?) me. it's like yes i find this woman very attractive, but i acknowledge her other traits that i like, and so i still wanna be respectful and not seem like i'm leering and ogling.
Strangely it reminds me of my friend (he's a guy). Once he said that he's tired of movies because "most of romances between boy and girl are oversexualized"
@@1fromoutside your friend is totally tight which is why I think I dramas are better they’re usually more romantic and less rushed and way less sexualized. It takes like 10 episodes to even get the characters to hold hands
Boob-first-Introduction and weird-ass-camera-usage? Even Detective Conan and One Piece constantly do this, causing me to lose more and more Interesting after having followed the Franchises for DECADES.
So take that for what it is.
There's nothing wrong with ogling as long as it's done discreetly or the target of lust ogles you back.
@@1fromoutside He's either asexual, belongs to a weird religious cult or that's a line to make himself seem 'not like other guys' to women.
"Perhaps because hands and mouths are more likely vehicles of female pleasure delivery than our phallocentric society would have you believe."
That explains SO MUCH. THANK YOU. I couldn't have said it better
As a male I think the biggest lie the “patriarchy” ever told us is that we were inherently different because I feel like that’s what ended up ultimately creating our differences
Finally a comment that says it, that most of this comments and even the video kinda fall flat when we believe in inherent differences, even generalizing assumptions about each gender.
We are All Different, We Should Celebrate Our Differences and Not Weaponize Them but the Bigger Lie is that Patriarchy Exists for People Who Aren't Filthy Rich. If the Point of it was to Benefit Men and Harm Women, it's Not a Good One. I'm a Man, Yet I Have to Pay Taxes and Work for a Living. The Patriarchy Myth is just a Smokescreen to Turn Us on Each Other to Protect the Upper Crust.
@@jodasjones67 paying taxes is not what they’re arguing about it’s an argument of lack of opportunities for people that are just as capable as us
@@lilcamjax Men and women ARE different, so it isn't 'a lie'.
@@tsopmocful1958 it’s a yin and Yang kind of thing…
The Take: “The Female Gaze”
My brain: “The Female Gays”
Yes to both.
That's what the captions said. (Not a joke.)
I feel like the response to Chris Evans’ sweater in Knives Out is a really good example of the female gaze. There’s nothing inherently sexy about the sweater but the way it’s been received is the same level as him shirtless in Captain America.
I really think Boys - Charli XCX and Boys - Lizzo are truly one of the many beautiful songs featuring the female gaze. Just seeing boys in their existence, with them playing with soft toys, doing things, embracing men of all sizes.
Omg yesss
Hozier's songs exemplifies the 'female gaze'❤️
@Danielle Barber Sure. Listen to 'cherry wine' which is about domestic ab*se. Or 'from eden' which apparently is about an affair. His songs are written about love and lovers but what sets him apart I feel is the way he tells the story without sexualising it. For eg, listen to his song 'moments silence'. Apparently it's about oral s*x,but he made it sound almost spiritual that i couldn't even make out the meaning until much later.
@Danielle Barber you r welcome. I hope u like them as much as I do!
@@auroralee3934 i love cherry wine so much! And the fact that in the video it shows a female victim of abuse while the lyrics hint to a male vuctim of abuse. I love him so much for showing that. Male and female victims of abuse and their voices should be always heard!
@@ilincabogza true that❤️❤️
Yesssssss
This is why I stopped watching Sandler's movies. I remember watching Clicked and all of the sudden I was over him and his movies.
Is there a Neutral Gaze? Instead of male, female, gay, POC... just neutral? How could we accomplish that? Like a casual bystander where it's all wide shot and you choose what you're seeing rather than the camera choosing for you. And having several stories happening in a shot....🤔
I think it depends on the main character/characters.
lol, THAT'S why? not his same-same acting for whatever film he's in? literally he plays the same character in every film he puts himself in.
Not possible, there's no neutral way of looking at or experiencing the world or a story, you're always looking at it through somebody's gaze, your own gaze shapes how you see things in your life and interact with others. Sure you could make something experimental but it will likely be highly incoherent and still, a wide shot is still a type of gaze depending on what's in the shot, it's not just close shots that define gaze. Being aware of gaze is important to not reproduce it mindlessly thought.
That sounds more like interactive media... VR, video games, etc.
Most of the time, the POV of the gaze is linked to the gender of the main characters... So neutral would maybe create a sort of disconnect between characters and story?
But I think it's possible for some stories. I think the most neutral movie I can think of spontaneously might be 'The Grand Budapest Hotel' and similar films
It's actually really interesting how little I feel seeing a shirtless dude, yet when it's a dude I've grown to know and understand more of their wants, needs and passions, than anything sexual like that I'm like WHOAh there buddy omg I'm blushing lmao
my example is like, seeing SUGA's shoulders makes me blush way more than seeing an mv of a shirtless person I don't know, I think it's the shallowness of the act that depends, if I feel like the actor/performer isn't actually comfortable in the situation then it makes the whole thing not fun to watch, this goes for girls too, I think it really depends on the individual and whether they are portraying their own strength and empowerment or if they are simply going along with the concept of the project. It really depends on the agency they have in the situation...
*decked, ripped, hottie with a six pack*
me: hot I guess lol
*some scruffy grub who is a caring father figure and does his best*
me: OHMGMSGS OMFF SIR SIR I ADORE YOU I AWK FHHSH-
great video but I think using scenes of ELVES from LOTR is kind of besides the point because, as Galadriel says in that very shot, elves are the wisest and fairest of all beings... they're supposed to be beautiful and I mean they're doing pretty much the same thing to Legolas as well so yeah
You totally missed out to mention George Miller and his wife Margaret Sixel who won an Academy Award for Best Film Editing for Mad Max Furry road!!!! This movie has a lot of "female gaze" while being a big blockbuster movie. It's the perfect example that you can have both.
I didn't know that! The editing is the thing that makes that movie great. A lot of people did a lot of great work, but it's the editing that makes it such a non-stop thrill to watch.
Really? what about all those slow motion shots of those pregnant women hosing themselves down and the naked woman on top of that tower? seemed pretty male gaze ish to me.
@Yautja Warrior
No, a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual.....just as in men's case. That's a different issue.
Also during that hose scene, they actually remove the chastity belts they had. Not to mention that naked woman was a warrior and had everything under control
@@QueenBee-pb6bt " a woman's body or nudity is not always sexual" so you're admitting the whole male gaze concept is bullshit?
The hose scene was shot in slow mo, clearly a choice made to emphasis the beauty and elegance of Immortan Joe's concubines, the removal of their chastity belts doesn't make that any less so.
Also the naked "warrior" woman is remarked by Max as "bait". Seems like a pretty objectifying way to describe her, if Furiosa was any indication I don't think that woman would be able to hold her own against a male wastelander like Max, he overpowered Furiosa pretty easily early in the film.
@@theyautjawarrior6652 As somebody who dislikes the male gaze, I agree with you. This movie had a bunch of male gazes too when they were shooting the women.
In the second nightmare on elm street film it films the male characters in the same way most films film the female character's its super interesting to watch it be flipped and a lot of people find it jarring because of how unconventional it is.
@Morgan.S Productions
I know, right? I don't get why so many people came down on "Freddy's Revenge". I've heard it's on some kind of list of unintentionally gay movies.
(6/12/2021)
@@daniellemusella1594 you’re correct, but it was very much intentionally (on the low gay). The background on the film is so interesting. The main actor actually is gay
@@user-mb9nm7bq5e
I know that. I heard him mention it in the "Never Sleep Again" retrospective. (6/12/2021)
It’s interesting how the male gaze being employed in the film is still considered an “unintentionally gay film” when that’s implying the male gaze is, again, catering to men. Just gay men. It shows how people inherently associate dehumanizing or sexualized depictions of people as a male-motivated framing device, whereas emotions are associated with women. It could’ve just been a film meant to cater to women’s sexual preferences, but was then considered a gay man’s film just because of the sexualization of men’s bodies. Just kinda thought it was interesting.
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For all my peeps interested in Latin American culture. There's this little essay by one Vera Burrows titled "Virgins, Mothers, and Whores: Female Archetypes in Gabriel García Márquez's Cien Años de Soledad and Isabel Allende's La Casa de los Espíritus" I highly recommend it if you ever got the time.
I just needed something like this to listen while cleaning my room
Literally what i'm doing right now
Same 😹
I do that all the time. 😂
i love how kpop fancams have a place in the term “female gaze”
I'm bi and I feel uncomfortable whenever a person of any gender is being shot in a very sexualising way. It often has nothing to do with furthering the narrative or character development and feels more like a shot meant for porn. There's a different time for that.
Same, I just look away and wish it would end sooner because sometimes it last for a whole minute.
I take issue with showing the elves when they say the actress will be lit for beauty - they're all lit for beauty they're elves 😂
Actually, no. Next time you reach Rivendell compare lighting on Elrond and Galadriel
@@lizziebooth5397 I suppose but Galadriel is described as "the mightiest and fairest of all the elves that remained in middle earth" in the text
@@adamhopkins2976 what point exactly do you think you're making? Cause it just reads to me as "and that's the most defining attribute of this female character, even in text"
@@lizziebooth5397 But Celeborn is also lit that way in the same scene, as are the other elves in Lothlórien, and the book clearly describes both Arwen and Galadriel as the most beautiful of the elves, Galadriel as the morning and Arwen as the evening. I think Éowyn would have been a better example, as she is a human woman who is still lit beautifully in most scenes, even those shared with her male costars, and doesn't have the elvish ancestry to justify it (though she is never depicted with the ethereal glow as the elves are).
@@issecret1 the point is that Elves in Tolkien's middle earth were the oldest of the races and the lasting part of middle earth when it was magical, pure and beautiful in its entirety, before it was corrupted. Galadriel is one of the last Noldor elves from that time and carries those traits into the third age. Not just the beauty of all the elves, but their wisdom and power.
“Women have internalized misogyny “. Omg… so true!!
so therefore simps internalized misandry then...
@@massetozacarias5693 Um kinda but I don’t think it’s the same 🤔
It would be so interesting to see what the female gaze would look like in a matriarchical society.
check out kdramas maybe
Probably the same as men's gaze. Unless you're going to argue that men amd women have different gazes due the sexes being inherently different... but then you'd be reinforcing the patriarchal ideas.
@@infinitum8558 the video itself suggested otherwise. (I'm a guy so I only have that lens). The video suggested that men value the physical attraction of the body a lot more whilst the women directed love scenes focused more on the character and emotionally bond.
I obviously don't know how much these differences might be real or just internalised patriarchy, but that's why I said it would be interesting.
I don't know whether it would be different, but considering a lot of animals do value different traits depending on their sex, it's a possibility.
Also I don't think seeing differences in sex is necessarily sexist. If men were objectively better at sports or maths (I'm not saying that they are) then it wouldn't be sexist to admit this, it would only be sexist to exclude women who are better than some men just on the basis of their sex. The sexism is in the action not the recognition.
@@infinitum8558 Not inherently different, just socialised to be different. Reinforcing patriarchal ideas would involve being blind to them and so perpetuating them unknowingly.
@@koalasquare2145 Agreed. Sexes are in some ways very different. I've read about some studies that showed that girls reach neurological maturity for language literacy much earlier than boys, but that maturity in math literacy for girls comes late in their teens. The difference is not the problem. I am sure most people are familiar with the concept that boys develop this later, but no one knows about girls and math literacy. So the exclusion comes in where school happens to be structured so that boys can catch up (the entirety of high school) and girls get dropped just as they reach their peak potential. Which leads many people to believe that boys are just better at math and girls at language. I am not sure about the validity of the study, but it's a good illustration.
For people who don't believe in a cinematic female gaze, I, too, will use "Justice League" as an example, and I'll compare it to "Wonder Woman". In the latter, Diana's body is framed as something powerful, and its beauty lies within said power. We see that most vividly, when she's climbing up the ladder and out onto the battlefield. We see her butt, her legs, her upper arms, and the side of her breasts. It's something to be in awe of, as in, "Wow. She's so strong". In "Justice League", however, which came out after "Wonder Woman", it's the exact opposite. The image I remember most vividly is her conversation with Victor, aka Cyborg. She's just standing there, mostly relaxed, and the camera is focused directly on her butt. The world around them is slightly-blurry and out-of-focus. Instead of "Wow. She's so strong", the message of that moment is, "Wow. She has a great a**." It overlooks everything else.
(6/12/2021)
I'd like to hear your take on how Snyder framed her in Justice League. Lets try to forget about the joss whedon one.
@@abhijiththampi7960 But people seems to like it. So many supports this BS version of his.
I agree. Thank God Wonder Woman wasnt directed with the male gaze, othetwise it would have wOOnder wOOman.
I know! I remember seeing Justice League after Wonder Woman came out and being absolutely heartbroken that they had allowed those up the skirt shots. Did they not see the fan reviews for Wonder Woman and think, huh, maybe not. Like you, I vividly remember a scene where she gets out of a truck or something and they slowmo the camera as her skirt flips up and shows her bum. What has this got to do with story or character building?
@@abhijiththampi7960 It was a noticable cleanup. I mean, her intro scene in the building where she saves those kids? Goosebumps. But honestly I don't remember her as much as Cyborg. THAT was the real major change that showed Joss Whedon's true colours. In the first movie Cyborg was negligable. In the Snyder version he was right at the core of the action. My favourite character in the movie. The fact that Snyder thought that he could cut out such a major character, who is crucial to the story, is the reason the movie felt so empty.
I love silence of the lambs because it shows you the male gaze through the eyes of a woman. Its so uncomfortable (and familiar if you are a woman) and at first you can't pinpoint why. Then it hits you.
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I've watched those male gaze movies even when I was a kid. And unfortunately, those movies eventually had their parts in building my insecurity on my own body, that I, as a woman, only get what I want and the validation I deserve if I look like a certain way. Female gaze helps me to empathize more not only to women, but to others. Seeing people or characters and being attracted to their persona really, feels much better than being attracted to their appearance. Female gaze also taught me to be more vulnerable and let me explore abstract feelings mainstream movies didn't explore. It taught me that I as a woman exist as a human, to have these kind of thoughts and feelings, not just an object that only survive when I being dependent on men, if that makes sense
In defense of the running in heels, if you wear heels enough then it’s super easy to run in them. I wear heels so often that my muscles have gotten used to them that I can run frequently and even do cartwheels in them. But I agree with everything else in this video.
Lol yeah. Ive actually always been less clumsy in heels then flats. I started purposely looking only for shoes with at least a bit of a heel from about the age of 12 (maybe sooner) just cause it was nice to walk and run without stumbling as much. I walked, I ran, I played in heels no problem. So I never really took issue with it in film. Its something that had to be pointed out to me as a problem since a lot of the times I would probably run better in what the girls were wearing rather than the boys "practical" shoes. That is until it became more common for it to be ridiculously high wedge and stilettos as they became even more in fashion. Even I tilt my head at those. But I do clearly remember being a kid and seeing a girl take off her nice sturdy chunky heels off to run barefoot down the road and being horrified thinking of the gravel and how much it must hurt and what if there is glass and why wouldn't she just run in her heels? 😂
I think it depends on the kind/height of the heels? I do theatre, so I’m very comfortable in a character shoe with a couple of inches on it. I dance, do cartwheels, run, all that jazz. However, expecting a woman character wearing stilettos to run away from a literal DINOSAUR? Idk…
Flats have always been sexier to me than heels because of knowing how heels impact the gait and deform the bodies of their wearers. Also because they’re not soft - with the spiky heel and oft-sharp toe - and they’re often present in professional settings where interpersonal relationships take a back seat to professional relationships.
It would be nice for you to discuss about the equivalent of the “male gaze” in women, because there are also stories written for women that are really disrespectful towards men, one example of those are some of the stories within the BL/yaoi genre, where stories are mainly targeted at heterosexual women and sometimes objectify gay men.
payback
Don’t forget the toxic relationships the main character is involved in. The more masculine love-interest can be extremely abusive towards the male protagonist and it’s just uncomfortable. It’s like women are fetishizing the abuse through the lens of the male protagonist and he is basically a “self-insert” character for women to project onto.
The only BL stories I’ve seen that actually has the protagonist in a healthy relationship is Given and Yuri on Ice. There are probably more but these are the ones that didn’t make me feel uncomfortable. There’s also the WebToon comic called “Boyfriends” that features a wholesome/consensual polyamorous relationship between 4 guys
@@CalmClamFam thanks god someone pointed point, yes it always bothered me that they borrow tropes from straight narratives to make the stories more attractive to a female public. Also I feel that some women do it because reading about situations where men are abused, makes them feel like they have the power, sort of like a revenge fantasy, which is really messed up. Well, I used to read a lot of yaoi when I was a teenager, but when I grew up I realized how toxic some of the stories where, so now I took distance from it and recently just watch Korean BL dramas, which I think have a better approach, it is not perfect yet, but at least there are not abuse narrative, my favorite one is “To my star”, totally breaks all top/bottom stereotypes and toxic masculinity, is beautiful.
Comics for women are so often predicting "bad boy" behaviour which often just predatory behaviour and I can't stand it. I also can't stand when a woman is predatory towards men. Bc trust me that happens a lot too. Blackmailing, forcing ppl to do things even tho they said no, mocking someone's appearance while secretly liking them, forcing physical contact etc etc the list could go on.
While young audiences might fabtasize abt these things as an adult female reader i can't get into stories like that.
If this behaviour is present in a story and portraid as bad behaviour that's different but most these glorify it and show it as if it was romantic.
This would be interesting.
One area of media where a female gaze could have been further explained through is the bl (boy love) genre of story making and fandom culture where the associated fans are predominantly female
I'm afraid there is an element of straight females fans fetishizing men in that case. It's similar to men watching lesbians in porn, but with a focus on the BL relationship instead of the sexuality.
@@mhawang8204 yeah thats exactly what I meant! There is an element of envy/jealousy over their subject of desire (male artist/character) having a potential relationship with another woman do its easier for them to ‘ship’ them with another male and turn it into a lgbtq thing which isnt wrong at all ofc. But many a times this homosexual relationship is also explored through a very cis heteronormative narrative which is ultimately hurtful
@@smrithipoolakkil1277 i personally find the "shipping with another male" thing to be really odd personally, like in a way that just totally delegitimizes gay relationships and gay desire
@@mhawang8204 I have shipped male characters because male characters are better written than female characters
@@AmetafJohora a woman is not a true fan of a property until she writes gay fanfiction about it
The only thing I strongly disagree with, is the strong sense I get from this video, that women are inherently unable to objectify people and so their gaze is always somehow better. That TikTok quote is the perfect example.
I agree, in general, men do objectify more than women, but there is really something wrong with thinking women are inherently only able to be turned on by "personifying" their partners, it seems way too close to the sexist idea that women can't be horny.
Female and Male Gaze could have been more aptly named "Personifying Gaze" and "Objectifying Gaze", or if you really still wanted to put some sex implications behind it, "Feminine Gaze" and "Masculine Gaze". But I like the former two more.
Names have power, they symbolise ideas. The former two only tell us what the gaze does and the latter two tell us that femininity and masculinity have something to do it, but since all of us have some feminine and masculine qualities, any of us could have any kind of gaze.
Women see other women too! all the time! I'm queer but I see other women in a non-sexualised/non-romantic way ALL the time. the constant sexualisation of "gaze" itself in pop culture just ends up teaching young kids that the only reason/feeling behind a gaze is romantic or sexual.
I do wish there wasn't such a dismissal of women finding men attractive simply for looks. It almost makes me feel guilty for wanting to look at attractive men without knowing their life history. Also everything we do doesn't have to do with our emotions. Yes our emotions play a part in how we are attracted to men but sometimes it's just nice to look at a pretty face or nice bod. I don't think that just enjoying someone's beauty is a bad thing. I dont' think it's bad when men do it to either. What I have a problem with is the frequency of the male gaze. The fact that as a women it doesn't interest me as much as it might them and that fact is rarely considered. That maybe I want to see some women that are just average women. Not beautiful prefect dolls but they are still an important character in the movie.
I kind of hate this over glorification of women being super emotional in a psuedo cosmic spiritual sense. As a female, I can't relate to it. Most ways other girls view men I find to be boring and internalized sexism. I oddly enough get off more and can relate to gay men.
I like a guy who can ride me, plow, fuck hard, etc. Unfortunately, while more sexually empowered women are coming out, they're being accused of perpetuating the male gaze because everything we do is for men apparently.
At this point, the only way I could prove to these idiots my own autonomy is not for men is mentioning my vore fetish since 90 percent of the general male population don't find that attractive.
yeah i don’t get why people think that it’s wholesome when a woman looks at an attractive man but dehumanising when a man looks at an attractive woman. we’re all attracted to beautiful people regardless of sex
@@will506 I think sometimes it's wholesome in either case. But it's also not wrong if it's not wholesome. The only thing that bothers me is the way that it's done (disrespectfully) or the fact that women don't get valued as much for things beyond that. I mean with male characters there's always the loveable dork that gets the beautiful girl no matter his looks. I think a lot of men might see themselves in those roles. I'd love to see more characters like that for women even without the beautiful man.
I would love to learn more about the other gazes, particularly the “rich gaze” 🙏
None of this is knowledge or science
The CEO of nestle?
It's pretty sad that everyone here actually believes that all males focus on is sexual aspects. Honestly, that's very sad, and it perfectly demonstrates to me how little women understand about men and how many assumptions they make based on stereotypes.
Yeah this TAKE is not balanced.
fleabag content yes!!!!
also i love when The Take discusses media trends in such a sophisticated tone like "fan cams" and "looking respectfully"
I didn't expect to see fancams 🤣🤣🤣
same frickin Ni-Ki and Hyunjin too
legit panicked when hyunjin popped up, i thought my yt must have glitched out or something
I think the issue with isolating gaze down to genders is assuming that the morality of women is inherently good just because it's the opposite of men.
We know that in feminism, that is hardly the case. This entire video is actually a great example of white women as the central focus of the female gaze.
Women may personify men in our films and fantasy...but not all women personify other women.
I’m genuinely curious! What would you have done differently? Judging from your profile pic and comment, I am assuming you are a Black woman, (though please correct me if I’m mistaken!) How do you feel like the male gaze intersects with women of colour onscreen? Do you feel like the existence of a female gaze to counteract it is inherently harming or excluding women of colour, or just that this particular video did a poor job explaining it?
Thank you dude
@@Canonicallycreative I think white women tend to tip-toe around their own sins.
I love this channel. I've watched it since its inception. I'm also a fan of holding people accountable by giving them the feedback they need to grow. I'd rather watch The Take grow instead of die.
Even though this video is about women, white women were both the central focus of both objectification and the answer for correcting the problem.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with white women presenting theories and arguments and illustrating these theories with white women.
However, when white, liberal, feminists, who view themselves as "open-minded" fail to fill in gaps of overt racism in the male gaze and female gaze, they continue to fail women.
This video may require further research and exploration from their colleagues of color.
I somewhat agree but, when you say how the gaze is women morality is inherently good, if you have a certain level of intelligence you will know that a very flawed thought that could be argued doesn't apply. Even in the vid, the male gaze could be practice by women too. The vid is not that long it can't talk about everyone. Instead of complaining ask them to make a vid discussing what you want.
'Not all women personify other women' but they didn't say that lol, its discussed in the beginning of the vid that women often internalise the male gaze too. The male gaze is not exclusive to men just as the female gaze is not exclusive to women
"This person is hot, and this person is a person."
i'd love to see a video on some of the other gazes (white/oriental/straight) mentioned towards the end!
Saying the female gaze can't really exist because it's just the male gaze with the sexes reversed is ignoring the fact that women can sexualize, objectify and dehumanize men too.
For me, the perfect gaze is the gaze where you look at a person with care, kindness, admiration and respect, but most importantly, you look at them as human, which is who they are before anything else. People are humans, and we should all learn to look at them like humans, instead of as objects.
How about "The Human Gaze"? Can't we all just get along? "...c'mon people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another, riiiiiiight now"
I don’t know why but “collection of sexually exciting body parts” made me think a lot.
I was literally SO CONFUSED when hyunjin suddenly showed up
The way I literally shouted when saw niki lmfaoooo
I was looking for the first person to mention them!
seriously, i though i had to be hallucinating, god this hiatus has me fcked up
@@Lili-ig1wd yeah same!!! I was like wait did I accidentally put this on?!😂
i never noticed this. crazy how even i've been conditioned to think that "close up shots of women's bodies in a stripper club/shady places/gas stations/beaches" are totally normal
Well Hollywood is known for sexualizing women and even some of the actresses find it liberating and empowering. Personally, I don't think you need sex to sell a story and sometimes oversexualisation can just be a ploy for covering up a badly written story
Male Gaze helped me realize I'm attracted to women, so there's that.
I'm pretty sure you'd have realized you were attracted to women without having to dehumanize them and reduce them to visually appealing objects. It's kind of the subject of the video.
@@rosiebowers1671 Male Gaze doesn't have to be dehumanizing. The video also says that.
@@rosiebowers1671 just because a female character looks good and the filmmaking takes a moment to capitalize on it doesn't mean they can't be a good character.
Alien has a moment where Ripley strips down to her underwear, does that make her dehumanized?
watching the male body building competitions made me realize that I want my body to be similar like them
Omg, this explains my entire problem with mainstream movies and my preferences. it's exactly that! i was never able to point out what it was! I think that is goes so much deeper than we might even think. Cause everybody internalised the white male gaze.
"If we can hold two thoughts in our head...this person is hot and this person is a person. Imagine what we could accomplish as a society." 15:32
For real the take is one of the most precious channels there are here
That thing you said about turning the object of the the male gaze is fascinating, and I haven’t thought of that before. I love this breakthrough.
I realised the breaking of the fourth wall when I watched female led comedies like Insecure, Fleabag, Grownish and High Fidelity
Tbf, the John Cusak's High Fidelity had him breaking the fourth wall. It was a stylistic choice, the book reads sort of like a music 'zine from the 90s in some parts (top 5 songs that XYZ, top 10 songs to XYZ to) interspersed with... Grown man coming of age sad romance?
YES HWANG HYUNJIN GET THAT SPOTLIGHT
I was so surprised XD i was like... Isn't that Hyunjin???
This is the first I have ever heard of the Female Gaze. Though, I have a feeling I'm not the only one.
"Can it exist?"
You need to watch more films. Bonnie and Clyde (1967) employs the female gaze the first time we see Clyde Barrow.
Also it's strange that people only refer to the male gaze as it relates to women, but the male gaze also applies to other things as well. I imagine if you asked men and women to make a film about cars, it would be a noticeable difference in how each gender presented them. There are lots of things besides women that men tend to view differently.
Things only become problematic when they become the default, and it's rather sad this discussion always tends to fall into the "Thing bad -- Thing good" dichotomy.
I was asked once by a guy what I wanted in a boyfriend, and my answer was 'I want to be seen as a person and be respected as such. I want to be a partner, not damsel in distress' Im still amazed at how long it took to explain before he understood what I meant.
I have NEVER been this early wow
This was a very complicated topic and so amazingly presented. Leave me speechless once again, why don't you? 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
It is because always white men are in charge of those movies (especially producers like safe way) , if women and poc are given to chance to tell their stories this wouldn't be a problem. For example latest Emma adaption: a not Mary Sue woman's story which created by a woman writer and told by a woman director. It was splendid work to watch for me.
Emma is a powerful woman, she loves power, she loves to be in charge. Her happiness lies there, her dream is not getting a man. Her character growth is breaking her arrogance which causes her lack of empathy. Not finding true love and sacrifice all her dreams for sake of it. She is representative of a real human. One of a kind human, not some character trapped in * love interest* archetype. Imagine pursuing a script with this kind of character in Hollywood... They cannot tolerate humans unless they are men.
i love discriminating against as straight white men
I really think its less a straight white cis man problem and more a cultural one. Its not some inherent flaw shared in the dna of millions forcing them to act a certain way. The generalization doesnt help anything. Its calling out prejudicial problems of one kind with prejudicial thinking of another. If you look at creative works made by straight white cis men from other countries or other points in history or ones who dont objectify in Hollywood you can find examples that clearly show its not a race/gender/sexuality crosssection issue.
I didn't mean to discriminate, it is their point of view and they free to tell so. If one relates and enjoy watching them, it is okay too. But dominanting all mass media industry and not giving a chance to others results in creating weird concepts for what women should be, what acceptible asian traits are blah blah.. No one forces white cis man to like Emma, though from the comments i witnessed most of them thinks that movie is overall absurd, and emma is very unlikable, a boring experience and emma is still annoying at the end no character growth or anything 😐 The situation is quite amusing actually.
@@khaxjc1If Hollywood sells dreams for white cis men, why shouldn't i say they sell dreams for white cis men? The reason may be cultural or not doesn't matter. For example let's say Japanese women is in charge of the largest and most influential media tool globally, then we would be discussing about what are they selling as the optimal men (all around the world) for Japanese women gaze. My point is they should give opportunity to other stories told by others. I don't like how half of the human population can be called as "others" in this century.
@@mai-qy9ji there is plenty of examples of men being objectfed for the female viewers
The male gaze often looks at women who don't know they're being looked at, whereas the trend of female gaze movies including fourth wall breaking shows the woman on screen is aware that you're watching her and is allowing it. I'm sure there's a link between this and the idea that women should be beautiful but shouldn't KNOW that they're beautiful.
The important distinction is between seeing a pretty person and thinking "that's a pretty person," and seeing them and thinking "that's a pretty thing."
Excellent example... the Amazons in Wonder Woman vs the same Amazons in the Justice League movie(s). Their costumes alone, let alone what the camera focuses on. Huge difference.
Yes !!! Thank you for this video !!! As a straight woman, Ive stopped watching many movies and series because I was disgusted by how strong the male gaze was, with camera shots on body parts and so on... YEW
Also, you have Prager "U" ads running and its a vibe destroyer.
I don't think they are able to decide which ads appear on their videos, that's on TH-cam.
I've been thinking about this a lot. Part of me wonders if the best place for these ads *is* in critical spaces where they're more likely to be dismissed, at cost to the advertisers, rather than right-leaning echo chambers where they might direct traffic.
Of course, on the flip side there is the possibility of the ads "reaching" viewers even on videos like this one.
It just makes me wonder how best to employ malicious compliance in order to undermine these reactionary con artists.
I haven't seen a Prager ad in years - perhaps because when I did, I reported them as "inappropriate".
@@elucified the only way to make change is to bring issues to people's attention. I'm not blaming them, I'm letting them know.
@@Molly-ml1wn I'm not sure how TH-cam's algorithm works. Specifically, as it pertains to predatory advertisers such as Prager. Their ads are wasted on me and people who think like me for sure, but that doesn't make hearing their promotions any less emotionally taxing. I hate hearing their demented and harmful rhetoric.
I learned the phrase “female gaze” from Outlander
Same! surprised it wasn't brought on in this video, since I think (at least in contemporary television) it's paved the way for the female gaze
@@The0neWomanShow Once again Outlander remains one of the most undervalued tv series
@@Sarandib22 I have read all Outlander books.
@@Sarandib22 I can't speak to the books because I haven't read them, but I think (at least in the first season) we did see her orgasm a couple times. And I remember in a few episodes there were times where she did guide Jaime's hands towards her. Compared to what was shown around its premiere I thought it was pretty novel. But as for everything else, yeah I can't speak much on how the translation is from text to screen.
@@TeamSukiyo Exactly 😞 I always bring it up whenever people ask for shows (although these later seasons don't hold a candle to the first three)
Ok galadriel wasn’t lit like that for beauty I’d like to point out. It’s because she has the light of the eldar and is very reflective of the light of the two trees she was born under. The ways she’s lit It’s actually a depiction of her immense power
Also the scene where Frodo offers her the ring and she goes like greenish and super bright. She's definitely beautiful but the lighting scared me as a kid lol
@@brynmcclennan973 “dark and terrible” yep definitely scary
@Sabrina Kall they did for Gandalf when he turns into
to the white wizard
Like I said it’s about the light of the two trees living in galadriel
Elrond doesn’t have that because he wasn’t born under them and he’s half elven
@Sabrina Kall thats because:
Elrond is not a caliquendi, galadriel is, that is why she is depicted like that.
Gandalf, is and istari, he is ordered to hide his true power in order to fulfill his mission, amd when he revives as Gandalf the white we can see more glimpse of his true powerful and light form
And sauron is an evil mf of course the dude doesnt shine in a beautiful manner he is basically a demon
I'm a simple woman: I see a shot of a man's hands, I swoon.
As a dude I'd like to ask about what is attractive about man's hands. They're usually hairy and not very pretty.
Omg this is a great essay.I know most women can relate.👏🏻
Great video The Take!! 🥰🥰 I always loved your videos!!
Man, I watched In The Heights around watching this video and was captivated by how Vanessa is filmed in the opening number. I first noticed it when we see her walk into the bodega, it's an "isolated body part" shot (her midsection basically) but there's nothing sexy about it, I don't know if it struck me because it's a very novel shot or if I just had this video on my brain. Thinking on it I feel there's a subversion of the male gaze going on there, and/or she's being shot to emphasize her stylishness. The first shot of her is of her mouth, which is a "sexy shot" but it's a mouth doing its own thing, singing "no no no no", and it's shot from the side, like it has nothing to do with us at all. The visible makeup itself can say "sexy" but also "strong sense of style". Then she walks into the bodega and it's another "isolated body part" shot, the one of her midsection, I think maybe her midriff is even showing but we barely see it at all. The POV is from an awkward angle, again not like we're ogling her but just noticing her as she sweeps by, and if there's anything to notice about her in the shot I only noticed her clothes, which again could be there to suggest what we later find out is her passion for fashion design. Overall I get the sense they were trying to suggest "this is a very stylish woman" and "this is a beautiful woman but she's not there for you, she's got her own stuff to deal with".
Love that newer scripts are being written from new perspectives that would usually not get the green light from Hollywood back in the day