Excellent work from the DOR. This is the kind of shoe geekery (tm) that we need more of. Perhaps try to get a materials scientist on from one of the companies (doubtful they'd get to say much, but maybe worth a try). EC Frederick used to run the Nike sportslab and publish some of their research a long time ago. Reading some of those papers was interesting. I'm really interested in the interaction between weight/ force/ running velocity in relation to these shoes. As a heavier runner these days (~200lbs) it seems to me that my slower pace is still going to load the foams with similar forces but over longer time/ lower rate than a much lighter faster runner. But the resilience might be different at different rates? Just some thoughts..
I did a 10k trail race in Prescott Arizona and running through the dell's was nightmarishly hard. Also the Lake Padeden mud run 10k in bellingham Washington was crazy hard.
Cross country 3 mile race in 95f heat and humidity. The opposing teams coach made their team stop and our coach had us keep running. None of us knew the other team dropped out. Then our top runner finished and passed out on the line. Ambulance came and helped him and the varsity race was cancelled lol
This episode was just EPIC! So much information and knowledge spread to us all. I think it requires to be listened three or four times to fully appreciate and adsorbe all the information provided. Great job guys!
Good stuff. I wish we had these super shoes back in the day when I was fast! Just from my own research the superfoams really arent doing me much good compared to basic foams. (My times are essentially the same over all distances) although the superfoams do feel much more cush.....
Yeah if you look at the record progression, they barely dropped since the introduction of the super shoes. That could just be the normal progression of more attempts/athletes and fine tuning training regimens. I am more curious on the middle distance track super spikes though, since they are adding the foam where pretty much none existed before (not a track runner so not certain).
Great episode for us shoe geeks. My next question would be looking at the resilience/compliance of the whole midsole system beyond just the foam. i.e. the invincible with just a slab of zoom x most likely behaves way differently than the Vaporfly where the carbon plate not only adds system resilience but also stabilizes the foam. That’s where shoe design becomes hand in hand beyond just the foam.
Repetition compulsion might be the closest psychological dynamic In a general context, it means replicating earlier trauma often childhood trauma. The explanation is the person experiences repition compulsion is attempting to control and master these experience. In sports, it sometimes relates to improvement and seeking 'perfection. (All of this is oversimplification on my part)
The title reads ''.....Sub 2 hours'' yeah by 6 minutes plus !!! Why put me through such a coundrum, both an interesting topic and 2 hours of a video. Now I have to make some time late in the evening and listen the whole lot! :)
Hardest race - probably 800m track (previously the shortest distance I had run was 5K. Half-marathon was my main event). 800m was a whole new level of pain
Your point on how people interact with shoes differently than other people is why I’m so frustrated about the amount of people begging for running comparisons on TH-cam. There’s running stores for a reason.
Easy this year (I am an older runner with only a few years under my belt so not an extensive list but I have done a couple of spartan including the ultra). On February 20th this year Blackpool Lancashire UK, A half Marathon was run in the middle of Storm Franklin (winds of 38-50 mph ) .. that was pretty tough especially when it was a headwind and horizontal sleet .. but I was buzzing when it was finished :). however though I am 53 I am a young runner, so still running a lot of PB's and have yet to face my toughest running challenge
so basically I just need to buy one boost shoe per year from adidas for easy miles, run all my workouts in the saucony endorphin speed and race in the vaporfly. sounds like a good rotation for my ears
Interestingly, there is the study: "Influence of different midsole foam in advanced footwear technology use on running economy and biomechanics in trained runners" which says the PEBA foam performs worse in the long run (no pun intended) after 450 km, compared to EVA. In my personal experience (being running consistently for 28 years), PEBA is more durable 600km in the Pro 3 - 700km in the Pro 2 and it performs far better. I've never run that far in any EVA foam running shoes, being able to push sub 4 minute per km comfortably, even if the shoes are worn out.
@@cannibalmanimal2336 Of course it's me, after having tested 8 pairs of running shoes with PEBA foam at the running track (following the same "protocol"). After clocking 700km using the Saucony Pro 2 and Pro 3. Feel free to run in EVA foam shoes as much as you like.
Of course it's about me. After having tested 8 pairs of carbon plated shoes (PEBA/PEBAX based) at the running track, following the same "protocol". After clocking 700km using the Saucony Pro 2 and Pro 3. Feel free to run in EVA foam shoes as much as you like.
![ลองสุ่มไอโฟน 990 โกงมั้ย? [ โกงมั้ยครับ ep.101 ] | DOM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bfsWe0j492k/mqdefault.jpg)
This week's Subjective: What's the hardest race you've ever run? Let us know below!
Excellent work from the DOR. This is the kind of shoe geekery (tm) that we need more of. Perhaps try to get a materials scientist on from one of the companies (doubtful they'd get to say much, but maybe worth a try). EC Frederick used to run the Nike sportslab and publish some of their research a long time ago. Reading some of those papers was interesting.
I'm really interested in the interaction between weight/ force/ running velocity in relation to these shoes. As a heavier runner these days (~200lbs) it seems to me that my slower pace is still going to load the foams with similar forces but over longer time/ lower rate than a much lighter faster runner. But the resilience might be different at different rates? Just some thoughts..
I did a 10k trail race in Prescott Arizona and running through the dell's was nightmarishly hard. Also the Lake Padeden mud run 10k in bellingham Washington was crazy hard.
Cross country 3 mile race in 95f heat and humidity. The opposing teams coach made their team stop and our coach had us keep running. None of us knew the other team dropped out. Then our top runner finished and passed out on the line. Ambulance came and helped him and the varsity race was cancelled lol
Fascinating interview! As a running shoe addict, I was glued to everything Geoff said. So interesting!
This episode was just EPIC! So much information and knowledge spread to us all. I think it requires to be listened three or four times to fully appreciate and adsorbe all the information provided. Great job guys!
Thank you!!
Awesome conversation! Thought I'd run through it in a few minutes, ended up spending close to 2 hours watching it on a random Tuesday evening :)
Thanks so much! Hope it was a good two hours for you!
Great content. I would have like it broken it up several segment or clips.
I could listen to this guy for hours
Would be great if you could have Geoff on regularly! What Puma shoes use peba? Are there any other shoes other than Saucony and Nike using peba?
Good stuff. I wish we had these super shoes back in the day when I was fast! Just from my own research the superfoams really arent doing me much good compared to basic foams. (My times are essentially the same over all distances) although the superfoams do feel much more cush.....
Yeah if you look at the record progression, they barely dropped since the introduction of the super shoes. That could just be the normal progression of more attempts/athletes and fine tuning training regimens. I am more curious on the middle distance track super spikes though, since they are adding the foam where pretty much none existed before (not a track runner so not certain).
Great episode for us shoe geeks. My next question would be looking at the resilience/compliance of the whole midsole system beyond just the foam. i.e. the invincible with just a slab of zoom x most likely behaves way differently than the Vaporfly where the carbon plate not only adds system resilience but also stabilizes the foam. That’s where shoe design becomes hand in hand beyond just the foam.
I am a golfer as well and the correlation of speed and feel are very similar to the shaft in golf clubs.
Repetition compulsion might be the closest psychological dynamic In a general context, it means replicating earlier trauma often childhood trauma. The explanation is the person experiences repition compulsion is attempting to control and master these experience. In sports, it sometimes relates to improvement and seeking 'perfection. (All of this is oversimplification on my part)
The paper that Geoff mentions that would be out by late 2022, is already out there? It should be super interesting!
The title reads ''.....Sub 2 hours'' yeah by 6 minutes plus !!!
Why put me through such a coundrum, both an interesting topic and 2 hours of a video.
Now I have to make some time late in the evening and listen the whole lot!
:)
Hardest race - probably 800m track (previously the shortest distance I had run was 5K. Half-marathon was my main event). 800m was a whole new level of pain
Great and very interesting subject. Thanks a lot
Your point on how people interact with shoes differently than other people is why I’m so frustrated about the amount of people begging for running comparisons on TH-cam. There’s running stores for a reason.
Very educational, thank you!
Thanks for watching!
Easy this year (I am an older runner with only a few years under my belt so not an extensive list but I have done a couple of spartan including the ultra). On February 20th this year Blackpool Lancashire UK, A half Marathon was run in the middle of Storm Franklin (winds of 38-50 mph ) .. that was pretty tough especially when it was a headwind and horizontal sleet .. but I was buzzing when it was finished :). however though I am 53 I am a young runner, so still running a lot of PB's and have yet to face my toughest running challenge
Wow, intense! We’re sure it was an amazing feeling to reach the end of hat one. Excited to hear your future racing challenges!
Top notch pod
so basically I just need to buy one boost shoe per year from adidas for easy miles, run all my workouts in the saucony endorphin speed and race in the vaporfly. sounds like a good rotation for my ears
That story is wild. There is no way anyone can convince me that running 60 miles in a go is in any way good for you. That's insanity.
So w all that said, does the foam actually absorb impact, or just dull the sensation?
I have a pair of puma NRGY. But it didn’t run as well as adidas boost. Adidas knew how to make it work better.
Interestingly, there is the study: "Influence of different midsole foam in advanced footwear technology use on running economy and biomechanics in trained runners" which says the PEBA foam performs worse in the long run (no pun intended) after 450 km, compared to EVA.
In my personal experience (being running consistently for 28 years), PEBA is more durable 600km in the Pro 3 - 700km in the Pro 2 and it performs far better. I've never run that far in any EVA foam running shoes, being able to push sub 4 minute per km comfortably, even if the shoes are worn out.
So basically it was you, not the shoe
@@cannibalmanimal2336 Of course it's me, after having tested 8 pairs of running shoes with PEBA foam at the running track (following the same "protocol"). After clocking 700km using the Saucony Pro 2 and Pro 3. Feel free to run in EVA foam shoes as much as you like.
Of course it's about me. After having tested 8 pairs of carbon plated shoes (PEBA/PEBAX based) at the running track, following the same "protocol". After clocking 700km using the Saucony Pro 2 and Pro 3. Feel free to run in EVA foam shoes as much as you like.
Check out the Puma “Eternity”!
So what foam is lightstrike pro ??
We’re his people!
Good comfortable shoes for everyday walking?
www.doctorsofrunning.com/2022/06/best-running-shoes-for-walking.html
“They’re coming on me” oh boy
Sub 2 (hours) 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😅
Even faster than Kip