No One Agrees How Good Sol Badguy Is in Guilty Gear Strive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ธ.ค. 2022
- #guiltygear #guiltygearstrive #fightinggames
An overview of Sol Badguy in Guilty Gear Strive. While he was considered the best character in the game when he released, after a couple of rounds of nerfs, people tend to not agree how good he is. Let's look at Sol Badguy's pros, cons, and how he fits in the game.
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Sol has the tools to play all the matchups, that's the thing i like about him. You can also see the matchups charts where he always has around 47% to 54% wr vs all characters, meaning he is at least always even with them and skill of both players decide the match
Really? All i ever hear from Sol and Ky players is that they are practically unplayable.
@@hakumenx1 if you are performing at higher levels it all comes down to ''if i can open you up just once i can win'' which means you have to get in first, which also can mean you have to learn ib, which can also mean you have to react to delay cancels, which can also mean you need to know a lot of matchup knowledge and the list goes on and on and on if you are a ky/sol(any other strike throw oriented character really) player learning never ends its not that they are unplayable its just that its a real hassle to learn how to perform good against good players because let me tell you something those good players know what your character can do and since your gameplan appears to much more simple compared to rest of the cast good luck getting in and opening people up. (i mean look at mocchi dudes pretty much cracked)
Who needs to open people up? Your turn is my turn, please, i beg you, frametrap me. You will definitely not get DPed. Cmon, try that tick throw. 5Ks in the face are totally not a threat. I love Playing sol because all the OTHER gorillas walk into yourface for free and then die after getting read once.
At this point I just have to admit my big gripe with Sol is every patch he loses something for a very minor "buff." Honestly I still don't think the Bandit Revolver change is a buff since the knockdown isn't as advantageous as it used to be. At the end of the day though, Sol is probably always gonna be fine with every patch. It'll just be a pain to reroute combos due to changes.
The revolver change has been my favorite one for Sol actually
I'm gonna have to be honest I don't play him nor like him but as a jack o player I'd get pretty tight if they kept taking away something and giving me like some budget tool that wasn't as good as the first. Like imagine if the change to minion meter happened but for some reason they nerfed 5h one of jack-o's better normals with flaws of course but still nonetheless a great button. I don't even think sol is busted its just the environment characters with low profile 2ks (dlc section got a good chunk of the 2ks sol hates) will agitate him
@BolSadguy it was needed to make his new kit function. Especially with 2s and confirming from fs at max distance when 5h no longer connected. Not to mention other combo routes.
What really hurt was the 5k>6s change which severely weakened damage from 2s ch > br.
And now 6s ch damage also nerfed.
Which is fine, but at least make the move worth using.
6s is pretty much a shit button. It's only really good and consistent use was gatling from 5k, Kara cancel from 5k, and frame trap from 2k. Gatling doesn't really work now, Kara doesn't work from 2s ch, and frame trap from 2k is meh cuz the risk is higher and the reward is poop.
I dunno why they gotta do 6s like that. Nerf the damage, but at least give some of its uses back. Better higher hitbox or something.
BR change made his midscreen hitconfirms mildly less rewarding by just giving you fS pressure instead, which is fine. if you really want to force mix on people you can always knock down with other things, it's not comparable to the amazing combo application BR1 gives for his combo structure, without making them brainless like with 6P > 623H prepatch. the character getting more complex and needing to put in higher effort for higher reward is a good thing
@SuperNimi35 I didn't mean that change, or that change alone. They also increased the range on br1 which was needed to be able to convert from 2s ch at max range.
He's alright
Pfffft downplayer
@@kahsaiharmon15 nah bottom 1
i meannn hes alright like, overrated as fuck in my opinion nah i mean; and you know what tho, thats tipically how the bullshit goes you feel me
@@evilded2 nah bro
Hes so alright that momochi manages to win and place high in big tornaments huh?
Idec if hes good, I wouldnt have played Rev2 Bedman if I cared about character strength. My issue is how every nerf has just been making him less fun.
Gunflame -> Vortex? Even tighter to hit and less safe.
6S -> Bandit? The move doesnt even work at its optimal range.
6P -> HVV? Actually this one made sense I'll concede it.
I just don't get why everyone gets more options, more cool tools and fun gameplay while he doesnt.
At the start Sol was the one with the most freeform combo routes, but now he's just average since other characters got buffed in that aspect and he got nerfed.
Except for the bandit revolver rekka change, he got no new tools. I'm not even sure season one sol would be top one in this meta.
PREACH BRO! MAN DOESNT FEEL FUN NO MORE 😢
@@vloomnHe got some good stuff over the patches too. 2k>2d consistency, 2S buffs, wild throw RC giving combo, and throw oki buffs. You prolly right though, launch sol wouldn’t be the best in this meta because there’s a lot of really belligerent stuff.
And no 6S groundbounce??? Sol is so damn boring now and I kinda blame Mocchi
Played Sol since the game came out and just switched to Sin, I'm a low/intermediate player (basically going back and forth between floors 9-10 and butting my head a couple of times a month against the Celestial challenge) and your points made me go from dooming about Sol to thinkin "yeah, it's true that he's dope".
I just would add two things :
-his nerfs made him more boring, losing combo routes just feels bad. Still mad about 5K>6S no longer being a thing (outside of CH 5K and juggling obv)
-his max damage potential is hidden behind a steep execution requirement. Never could get kara HVV out of 5K, in the end I could manage getting it out of cS. I know that's a me thing and that I could get it by working on it but it's a thing to consider for players around my level.
Great vid, helped me articulate things I was sorta starting to understand from comparing the Sin experience to playing Sol. Keep em coming !
I feel like Sol players are always just, the best at Fundamentals. They always react to the Millia Mix, the always know how to punish every move. To me the character is solid, but its the people who play him that always make me feel like im a floor 2 player
The character is designed to make the player feel like they know how to play FG's, so rest assured, that feeling you have is not genuine. You're probably better than 90% of Sol players.
@@deckbuildercassen expound on that before you get submitted to scrubquotes
fundamentals is all sol has
@@GuelermeDias They littery made sol op at the start of the game so new players would think they are good at the game. You just mash buttons and dp on this character and you get rewarded with 60% combos. Hopefully they nerf sol some more next update.
I think partially that's because those players are cracked but I think sols large toolset is also a big part of it. For example punishing gets a lot easier when you have a dp and a 3f/4f move ( that also anti airs).
its a mixture of all of things being classified as the same thing. sol is good but a lot of his tools that ARE fun have been changed which a lot of people don't agree with. he still hits hard. he still can kill you but there are aswell things that hold him back like how gunflame pressure in the corner is -10 in some cases. i just want him to be fun. the new 5h stuff are fun but still its a reactionary response that isn't in a vacuum.
Mocchi realy nerfed the character by himself. props
I got yelled at for saying a tool was taken away and the person started yelling and said they are still good even tho I never said they weren't
Hes literally 1 attack level change on gunflame from being sonmuch better
Weird that LK would put a button they patched out in the thumbnail
Love these kinds of videos, they help me learn the game a lot, specially the strength and weakness part
Sol is still a good character but the fact that they keep nerfing his damage and combos every patch just makes him worse and less fun to play. They took away 5K into 6S BR, CH 6H Vortex and now CH 6S combos. Sol just isn’t fun to play anymore
Good on daisuke sol players dont deserve nice things.
@@D4C_267 :(
@@D4C_267 FAX
Wall bounce 6P feels like a lifetime ago
@@D4C_267
Your name is fitting that the amount of L's Sol players gave you
100% accurate title. Personally think he has pretty much every tool required to play the game. One of my favorite mu too as a Baiken, until he uses 5k.
Optimal Sol play can be surprisingly execution heavy. His strengths being up close pressure and high damage make proper use of his kara and combo optimization a must, and that isn't as easy as you may think.
He's still a strong character. But the most recent couple of rounds of nerfs have really hindered a lot of his ability to play well outside of point blank, and his obviously strong tools have equally obvious weaknesses.
Outside of using FD as you mentioned, 6S, f.S, BR, and Fafnir all lose to low profile/upper body invul (i.e. 6P). For Sol to abuse the tools that keep him at advantage he has to dissuade you from just exploiting that weakness, and his straightforward approach isn't great at doing that.
The CH 6S nerf really hurts his ability to convert and get good damage from midrange, which was the only point of the move since they nerfed it to lose to 6P and reduced its AA properties. It makes him more dry and one note than before, and that sucks in a game where he was already no longer top tier.
So while he's still good, there's no question that he was nerfed again overall. Combine that with the top tiers receiving compensation buffs along with their nerfs, and other high tier characters at a similar level to Sol getting buffs (Baiken for example) and I think this patch is a slight L for Sol, though it in no way kills the character like some Doomers were saying.
If you don't know how and when to frame trap, you're not good with sol.
If you aren't intelligent about your RPS and how you rotate your options, you're also not good with sol
His combo routing still manages to be flexible enough to give you decent options even if your execution and technical skill are poor but that won't shore up a lack of general game knowledge and the sol players who aren't capable of cultivating that knowledge are doomed to die
None of sol's important tools are bad and only a few of them are decidedly strong, but there is little sol doesn't have and nothing he isn't capable of at least to some degree
@@aganaom1712 man this only reads as "git gud" this guy clearly mentioned "optimal Sol play" and he also mentioned that most of what sol wants to do gets stuffed by preventive 6p (tho the gunflame change helps combat that). Also he didn't mention anything about frametrap?
@@Gonzakoable and that's part of the problem.
Sol is a character that is easier to pick up and play with than most other characters but one of the most important aspects of playing him effectively, especially at higher level, is really hard to learn and can be just as hard to teach. It's an unfortunate truth of the character and one that's been emphasized with each patch regardless of developer intent.
It sucks that "git gud" is basically what it boils down to but the core of what enables sol to stay relevant now is so nebulous that one of the best ways to learn is to just slam yourself against that wall until you finally "get it"
And the worst part of it is that people looking in on that process barely ever recognize it happening cuz a lot of the time, the sol player isn't even sure he's making progress
So he is actually closer to how he is suppose to be since XX. A character who has decent tools to play neutral but needs to get in to really get any work done. He is a character that rewards and power diminishes greatly at range but gets absurdly high close up. He is a character that rewards players who try to push optimize but is viable without it.
Good sounds like Arc sys finally fixed Sol's design after releasing that abomination of a character at Strive launch.
@@aganaom1712 And you're mentioning being good with the character because...?
My post is nothing more than an additional breakdown of some of the nuance of the character's tools and where he seems to stack up in terms of current character strength, in response to LK's thoughts on the matter. Mentioning what good Sol players are good at adds nothing to the conversation in that respect.
If your point is "git gud", that's even more of a nothing statement. You can find better success by improving at the game? No shit. But what's currently being discussed is the strengths and weaknesses of this particular character, and those exist regardless of any individual player's skill or lack thereof.
It also serves no purpose as any kind of counterpoint to anything I said, because I clearly stated that he's still a strong character despite nerfs. His most recent few nerfs simply made him a less dynamic character, and he already was not so strong as to have made that actually necessary.
The problem is they keep taking away his cool stuffs for literally no reason (some are not even broken like for example 5k>6s and 6s lauch on CH), it's make him less fun to play as.
Sol is just returning to his natural state as the gap character, it just sucks that they're removing all the sauce, although tbf to the june patch it moved sauce to other areas, like oki but still
Man I’ll miss Sol 5K -> 6S
He's the main character.
In most fighting games, the MC will have about a 1/4 of the beginner/intermediate player base behind them. Therefore, it's safe to assume the volume of discourse will be relatively high. Whether that doomsay and downplay is to be believed, well... lol
100% not to be believed. I play sol because i suck atfighting games and need an easy character so I can actually focus on not fucking up basics. Jesus christ half the time i just win from like... Basic hitconfirms and the three actual high damage metered combos I know because beyond that I just play basic defence and abuse my DP of the gods and lightning fast abare normals. He might not be t0p 1 at tournament level but he is top 1 everywhere else and even in tournaments he's easily high tier.
After seeing Mocchi play him, I'm convinced he's probably pretty good. Maybe not top tier, but clearly powerful enough to be able to win a tournament sometimes.
if he did less damage with more combo potential I think it’d be way more fun
They significantly nerfed his damage already. Now they nerfed his combo options too.
The best option is to make his optimal combo's actually hard to do like in older games, since being high damage char is part of his identity
Take away his routing nerfs and reduce clean hit HSVV damage, and he's golden IMO
I’m new to gg strive I love these vids I learn lot about characters thanks LK!!
Hearing people talk about Sol is so weird as a Faust main. Even when he gets around the items and normals, and doesn't get swatted out of the sky by 5K or 6P, I still can end up using Crawl to make one of his staple normals whiff in pressure and then he's kind of screwed. Faust doesn't really structure his pressure in a way that Sol can fight well either, due to the range and threat of item/afro interrupts. Sol hits hard, but so do Goldlewis/Pot/Nago and Faust still wins those match ups cleanly.
Solbros...
old video but i wouldnt mind them bringing back older combo routes in exchange for lower overall damage. theyre just cool
I think my biggest problem with sol in his current state is that some of his tools feel really lackluster compared to previous entries and, for a character that should feel like absolutely laying on the gas full throttle, he feels kinda stunted and held back. Gunflame isnt really great as a projectile or oki tool compared to other fireballs in the game or GF in other gg games. night raid vortex is good situationally but because strive is a game where grounded buttons are dominant (especially long reaching low hitting moves like nago/hc 2s) you never really use nrv outside of punishing fireballs. 2d isnt the beastly poke/antiair it used to be, which is fair in all honesty but it makes it feel like it doesnt have much place in his neutral game like it used to. I dunno, sol isnt bad by any means, maybe just not as good as the best characters, but he just has to play so much slower and more patient than he used to, which is such a shame for THE unga bunga character of the franchise.
I can agree. I went back to play Sol in XRD REV2 recently when they added rollback and I was a bit shocked by how much more fun he was to play in that game over Strive. Really miss the old Sol.
I will never forgive them for making 6s unhitconfirmable at its optimal range, i dont even care about its ch combos i just want the kd man
Man I figured some route must still work, are you at least plus for more pressure if you empty revolver in?
@@unfortunateinc.205 throw punishable, and ch combos are also a just a kd unless its on crouching, then you get a kara combo
@@shanks4u Daiskue has pwrsonally wronged u
I thought the first round of nerfs were fine and they should have left it at that. I don't play Sol at all but after his nerfs I think he's a lot less fun to fight ironically enough.
Calling 5p 6H a hard knockdown sure is…technically correct, lol
Too bad it doesn’t give any oki
fafnir
@@ryujinnchair nope, you’re not safe. It’s grabable.
Pretty spot on.
The only feed I would like to add is that he has some "dead moves".
Gunflame is a bit niche in usage and Tyrant Mob Cemetery is unusable besides for having a quick laugh.
heavy mob cementary is pretty meh but I'd argue it doesn't really matter because tyrant rave does everything you'd want already
he might still be in the top 10 maybe but he's definitely struggling to keep up
as far as where i think things sit with characters relative to him (this is independent of matchup spread), i'd say sol is very middle of the pack right now. his neutral is awkward but not technically bad and many of his attacks carry him forward giving sol a level of momentum that other characters don't have. his damage has (remarkably) remained relatively consistent from the start of the game however his dependence on meter to get that damage has risen significantly since the game has come out.
a couple niche things to talk about however and this gets into specific quirks of the character,
vortex, regardless of its risk on block, has a tendency to trade not uncommonly with other character's attacks even in the cases of a correct read by the sol player which can make converting off of it frustratingly inconsistent at times.
bandit bringer has a bit of a reward issue on counter hit where, due to the nature of the hit, the sol player has to figure out which followup is viable at that moment in time
even though sol has very threatening close range offense, it is difficult for him to safely extend it or end it which creates situations where sol players will tend to deliberately leave larger gaps in their pressure and offense than normal in order to more safely gamble through things like frame trapping and RPS and this puts more pressure on the sol player to rotate options effectively and always read the situation accurately as it's happening or risk becoming too linear with his gameplan and "flowcharting" much less effectively than other characters are able to as a result
Bro what. The strengths lk highlights in the video while true are extremely exaggerated. He underplayed how much fo hurts sol as many characters can press a fast button in his pressure and get big reward. As well his pokes are now extremely dogshit now with the 6s nerf, move is as safe as ever and now has the same reward as 2s. His other pokes such as f.s are extremely easy to stuff. He has nothing that other characters don't do better and his matchups are terrible in this version. Lk talked about his damage while on certain situations it's good it is very rare to be put in that situation (not impossible just rare) Overall he's got a shitty neutral, easy to deal with pressure and terrible knockdowns. He is not even close to top 10. Take my opinion with a grain of salt but sol is dogshit
Def wanna pop off on this one but i dont want to get memed on. Dont even want buffs anymore I just want them to leave him alone for one goddamn patch.
Ky also feels like this, I understand that in a vacuum he is "strong", but whitin the context of the game he feels so crap. Most mu's feel like trying to one up the enemy character in the things that they do better than you
I think Sol is very solid right now and capable of winning but I think I can speak for a lot of other sol players when I say that the direction they have been taking him in strive feels very different compared to XX and Xrd where he could more reliably control neutral with his slash buttons and is now much more incentivised to run up on you and rps, which I find is less fun for the character
Imo sol is ok but unforgiving to actually play
He’s extremely fundamentals-heavy with only mid tier reward, and a lot of his more fun tools that were less intensive to use have been weakened as time has passed. He also feels like he lacks cohesion in a lot of ways because some of his moves just don’t make sense, like how wild throw’s situation on hit is so bad.
I don't really know what you mean about Wild Throw. If you want to keep corner advantage, you can do a regular throw. On hit, Wild Throw can be RRC'd for big damage and keeping the corner, or breaking the wall for huge damage. At midscreen it leaves you with hkd and enough advantage to run another round of Oki and make your opponent guess for 1/3 of their health bar. It's not as good as in Xrd where you could combo WT meterlessly (even combo WT into Dragon Install lol) but I feel like the move is fine and it isn't a move that comes to mind when I think of issues that Sol has.
@@snowshow6207 i moreso mean that its purpose is bizarre, esp considering that without it sol cant really open people up well but with it he loses corner
This is made weirder by the fact 3 of the other command throws situations are literally win cons, with bite buster and damned fang. Wild throw sacrificing corner makes it so that if the move doesnt kill it just sucks ass, and leads to sol having no way to deal with fuzzy tech that isnt just hard reading it and doing something ridiculous like run up backdash
Also wild throw has like no frame advantage, its only +15 on its HKD, so it doesnt give oki while also sacrificing corner which is the only position on the screen where sol has any meaningful strengths
@@pasdan4985 I see your points. I'd be fine with it doing a lot less damage and having higher proration but having meterless combos from either side like in the older games. Now that I think of it, without meter it's not that much better than a regular throw other than being untechable. Blocked f.S into Kara Wild Throw is insanely powerful but I think that input is so hard to do it might not even be tournament viable. HMC and WT kinda feel like forgotten moves outside of HMC's incredibly niche position as a whiff punish/hard read WT's niche position as a killing throw or kara meme tech
@@snowshow6207 kara WT is like not humanly possible on pad or stick with any consistency to my knowledge, and without meter its just strictly worse than connecting with normal throw outside damage
its not like i think the move is useless, its just an example of bad cohesion in his kit imo
@@pasdan4985 Yeah, it does feel less cohesive now. I feel like WT made a bit more sense when he had stronger pressure and neutral as a much more occasional mix. I've seen kara WT thrown out by Sol players in a last ditch effort after f.S in a situation where both players are one hit from death and it has worked, but the fact those moments are clipped so much shows just how insanely hard it is to do that input lol. Maybe if they want to force him to play up close RPS with mediocre neutral, making kara WT easier in a similar way to how they changed TK Axl bomber to be easier would be an interesting direction to take him.
Was this video made during the last patch?
Not the winter patch?
made at the end of last patch but the points are mostly the same (5h buff helps against fd though)
Every patch i worry about Sol being bad. I go “i can’t believe they nerfed this and took this away”. Then when I actually start playing i soon realize just how privileged we were. Sol is fine this patch but i cant lie losing 6S sucks tremendously.
To me it's like at the beginning of the game's timespan Sol was still trying to play Xrd in addition to having desirable top tier traits, both of which made him frankly terrifying
Devs said he was overtuned on purpose and have lived up to their intention of dialing him back, but really seem to be going ham on undercutting him in ways that are hurting his staying power outside of the overcrowded mid-upper tiers
What exactly do you mean by “attack levels”? Still learning😅
Attacks don't have their own block or hitstun values they have an attack level with different values. You can find the information on dustloop
Strength wise, I think he's a mediocre character being carried by unusually good players and Mochi.
Gameplay-wise, I hate that he gives up so much, including tech potential, just to keep the damage from routing into clean hit viper. Which is boring and unsatisfying when Strive's average damage trivializes health bar melting moments.
Should not have been nerfed at all he is not alright
Whether or not he's good or bad, I've decided to main the character because he's fun and I like his personality. Since Sol's dustloop is relatively barren especially for matchups and he doesn't have a discord, it gets really tiring to find servers with a Sol channel only for it to be endless dooming about the character and arguing about how he lost fun stuff in this patch or got hard nerfed in that patch. I just wanna get better at him, but I have to wade against a lot of negativity to do it. I've learned a lot of great tech from Sol channels lately, but I've seen a lot of complaining too.
Yeah, that doesn’t sound fun to sift through all their negativity just to learn a character, like I get it that it sucks he keeps losing stuff, but people should focus more on just playing the game with the character they like and improving at that.
@@MayHugger I think it's kind of a result of patch culture. A lot of people play a character that is middle of the pack or low tier hoping that one day it'll be a high tier, but that day may never come. I know it's frustrating when your favorite character loses things, but it is what it is and your only options are to adapt or switch characters. For most people, they aren't trying to win EVO so just focus on what's fun
Honestly, I personally just don't find Sol fun to play as in Strive. It took away the "bad" moves and left him with nothing fun to use. You can call Riot Stamp and Dragon Install bad moves all day but, at least for me, they gave me something else to do to screw around with in a match, and quite frankly, they're less bad in Rev2 than AC because of the changes they got. Being able to follow up Riot Stamp with damn near anything makes the move even more fun, and despite how often people say "just 6P it", yeah most people I've encountered either lack the ability to react, or just choose to respect it. Dragon Install also buffing Tyrant Rave in Xrd is busted as all hell because you can use it to close out your DI timer and either force the opponent to FD and burn more than 50% meter to stop the chip, or eat the chip and still lose a chunk of HP, all while pushing Sol back out of punish range in most cases. Sol absolutely hits like a truck in Strive, but he's just not fun and he doesn't have anything to make playing him fun, which is why i ended up going back to AC+R and waiting to Rev2's rollback to drop, those versions of him are more fun to mess around with.
Yeah man, I wish they gave him his old moves back, dragon install, to me is literally the coolest super ever, I main him from the first time I played Xrd till now in Strive, even went back to play him in +R when rollback became a thing. But the thing is every patch he either loses a lot of combo routes, or he loses a lot of combo routes and gets a buff so minimal it's sad to even see. I really enjoy playing him, I don't even care if I'm winning, just please, GIVE US DRAGON INSTALL BACK!
I'm usually not someone who plays the "main character" of a fighting game, but with Guilty Gear I have always gravitated to Sol. I never cared about a character being good since I'm not a pro/competitive player and mostly play against CPU with occasional online play thrown in here and there.
I always enjoyed playing Sol and Ky most, but Ky's fireballs don't feel very good in Strive, so I picked up Gio too who I am liking more than I thought I would.
Just curious, is Sol considered a good beginner character? I haven't played Strive much, but I played Xrd a decent amount and he felt beginner friendly there(maybe I am off-base on that one though).
Yeah, Sol is pretty beginner friendly in both games. Great to start out with
Idk maybe it's cus I'm always trying to do optimal stuff because of the lack of literature but the Karas, the links, the optimizations you have to make on the fly with distance in the corner, all too much for my tiny brain. I either don't do the high damage worth the risk I take by doing a simpler combo or I miss execute, they block HVV that was supposed to combo and I die
I just picked sol back up as my main but I only have one single problem
The range he’s supposed to play is his own disadvantage
I still think he is good but since Bridget nago and chaos exist he can’t attack at that mid close range he’s supposed to granted he’s got ways to get around all of them besides the 3 just mentioned (Bridget to an extent I’m just ranting on Bridget it seems like a losing match up anytime I play it or watch it)
In the Gio example, 5k2d no?
this comment section makes a lot of good points 👏, so i'll only say that Sol's Quality of Life nerfs really disable 🚷 my kind of composite playstyle.
i can't push a Guilty Gear character that's lost the reliability of a button like 6S & rarely gets reversal-safe midscreen oki any more than a tennis player whose racket has big ol' holes 😰
I made it into LK's video by sitting in the audience
Im gonna tell my family about it
Sols dp is still nasty but I could see how opinions differ.
Well this video definitely aged well
Sad melty music 😢😔
Happy Melty music 😄🤗
God I love sol
are there still characters that dont have a 5Frame or lower move, asking for a friend ?
No, everyone has that because you need it to prevent being in a grab loop.
when he gets 50 meter he becomes a real boy
He’s fine. Just arc sys doing arc sys balancing.
Honestly think arc sys decided sol game plan needs to revolve around guard crush with meaty fafnir especially with how many routes end in 2D now
Imo I think he's still good just players have to use more of his tools instead of the relying only on the really good ones.
Yeah tools that are worse. While other characters don’t have that problem
Which makes him ass in comparison
The problem is that his other tools are useless. This patch does nothing to rectify his main issues.
@@Patrick-cm5sl true
@@james0644 yeah I think he’s getting power crept and it could lead to him being much worse in the future. Rn he’s “good” just not in a particularly healthy spot as a character
Hes always been my main so ill say hes fine how he is
the goat uploaded
facts
2:52 amongus
I would say he’s good, but not anywhere near great. High tier and top tier characters usually have something broken since he starts at a disadvantage in neutral. You know you’re a mid character when you have to block or backdash round start without throwing a button most of the time. His pressure is scary, but not at all unbeatable with fd esp if you’re midscreen, and his buttons are all stubby and now his few pokes don’t provide good reward without rc. He needs rc for both pressure continuations, approaching in neutral in a lot of scenarios. and the big damage to close out rounds, and these tension gauges are pretty sad. Playing sol is definitely not brain dead either, since in order to start your offense you have to get through your opponents neutral, which is probably gonna be whiff punishing on your end.
I think Sol is still A tier by virtue of sheer damage and defensive options but he’s just not fun for me anymore (and I think most current ex-Sol mains). Actual balance issues aside, most of the changes made in the past few patches have been eliminating the pieces of Sol’s kit that FELT the most enjoyable for me and that’s really what was most important. I straight up got bored of patch 1.11 Sol and the ongoing changes have only exacerbated my frustrations
yeah i don't care if they nerf the damage even more just give me sidewinder again or something he's just so boring to play
No lol, his neutral is ass, and sucks in very important matchups
@@fishbonito sidewinder does absolutely nothing for him.
@@HellecticMojo play +r
@@funkuro I'd rather chop off my hand than play that mess ever again.
I can't recall anyone saying he's bad. He's boring now, and constantly gets things taken away for little practical gain.
You are lucky then I keep hearing doom saying since the patch was announced.
Axl next!
Sol is 100% a character in strive.
Am I the only one who has an issue where if I try to do a Yrc out FD I somehow get counterhit instead? Registered of using a dedicated bottom or the button combinations
For YRC if you're using the button combination then it's probably because you aren't hitting the buttons at the same time and one of the attacks assigned to that button is coming out, but if you're using the macro (decimated button) then you're probably trying to yrc too late which is causing blue RC to come out, this can happen if you're inputting yrc after blockstun ends.
For FD it only happens if you're using the button combination instead of the macro and you aren't pressing the two buttons close enough together.
@@roarkviolet1912 it happens with the macro on FD too though. As for the Yrc I usually pick my moments to do it so I'm 90% sure I'm not doing a good Rc and I mostly use the macro. I play Millia which gains meter slowly so I tend to not Yrc unless I feel I need to. It happens like 3/10 times but that's a ton tbh
Sol is fun and you can win with him. That's all I got.
I think that people mostly disagree on his power level because although he's no longer public enemy number one, he's still very solid at LEAST, and doesn't have that much new stuff to practice or talk about, other than his bnbs seemingly changing every couple of months
I don't play Strive but he seems alright, not top tier, not bottom tier, just a fine character I'd like to play once I can run the game, but it is a shame I won't be able to play 1.0 Sol in all his glory
Soul is still quite strong it's just that everybody learned to fight broken soul so then when they nerfed him several times it just made the match up easier for everybody and also other characters got buffed so there's that.
Middest of Mid
Tbh I just started a week ago and all I know is that bullshit is blazing and sol 6p is frustrating 😂
I'm guessing people say sol is bad because they played against nago with him. I would say I'm around intermediate level and tried to pick sol up and was having fun but the nago match up was so not fun and felt kinda oppressive even though it was probabaly just me being bad that I dropped him because that matchup is pretty common and I didn't enjoy at all and it felt bad to me and all I did was dash block the entire game.
i think sol will be fine no matter what but he is definitely less fun now
I can't believe we're downplaying how good Millia is by talking about how strong other characters are smh
Looks like LK is up-playing again
They canceled Sol for having Fun
No, on launch he was arguably top 1 and while everyone else got buffs he’s only been nerfed, his best tools on launch are now pretty bad and the fd change really nerfed him. He is not good rn despite what lk says. Especially in this patch as his 6s is extremely risky with the reward of a 2s. You have to look at all the other characters in the game, I can only name 6 characters worse than sol rn. His strengths while strong are not as important as his weaknesses in the current meta. Take my opinion w a grain a salt but sol is dogshit rn. Also fuck ky he doesn’t deserve his buffs or that 6h
Sol Bad guy is a great character, but he's not free. I think a lot of people got used to how overtuned he was and think he is crap since you can't win brainlessly any more.
th-cam.com/video/GM-e46xdcUo/w-d-xo.html
My problem is that they keep taking away his combos and make him less fun each patch.
@@RealChrisTakaI completely get it. Basically you have to re-learn Sol every patch because they keeps changing his combo paths. With that said, he is still a character with a lot of great tools.
@@Vanfernal It's not that have to reroute paths it's that your losing paths entirely to where shouldn't hit any other button in neutral aside from f.S ironically.
I don't have anything authorative to say about sol's strength i'm barely floor 10. But i have to say, please don't ever say sol is brainless again. Holy shit after maining sol recently i've found out he's incredibly complex and not straightforward at all once people get good at shutting down your pressure.
That's moreso the way you need to interact with the other player, not his kit itself. He is simple, the game's systems make interactions for him more complex
I never liked sol in Strive because I like playing my sol like a rushdown/combo
If sols didnt want 6s to get hit again maybe they shoulda tried hitting literally any other button in neutral.
What are you even talking about. It's been a trash move long before the last patch. And no one uses 6s "all the time" since it's been crap forever.
@@Lucoms sol mains: 6s was a meme!!!!! No one even used it!!!!!
Also sol mains: i will literally never play this game again because sol 6s was nerfed. Daisuke personally hates me and wants me dead. There is no light in the world.
@RaiderzDefender
It hasn't been a "meme" in 1.5 years or so. What are you even babling about?
I'm saying it was already nerfed to oblivion before the latest patch and was barely even worth using even with its high combo conversion potential.
Why are you being so dense and argumentative for no reason?
The move has been nerfed like a billion times.
You're just being a troll now.
Fuck off.
@@RaiderzDefender which button? not sure if you know but the only mid range buttons Sol has are 6S and 6HS, 6HS is trash ever since october, 6S was already a risky move to use in neutral, as it would lose to any low profile move and 6P, and on whiff it's punishable at a -20 recovery, with all that the only thing it was good at was the reward for a CH being a cool combo, now at best you do Bandit>5K>2D. Now Sol's best option by far on mid range neutral is just dash block, very fun.
Can I propose Jacko as a topic similar to this? No seriously, she is a weird one because I have never seen a character be used so uninteded yet proove to be strong still.
For example she has 3 moves that are underrated. I would say 4 if we include shield. If a jacko would use these moves properly, I honestly believe she is an S tier Character kind of like HC.
Im no top player, but when I started incorporating some of these moves into my arsenal, I literally got much better and saw where my flaws were. I know this sounds like selling a scam, but hear me out.
Shield: It imposes such a grand dillema to the opponent, that they will have to play by the shields rules and go for a grab instead. Not only that, if shield is successful, you get a gauge back that was used, and damages the opponent. This, in my opinion is better than Minion attack from neutral because you get to do minion attack after a successful shield anyway. Shield compliments Attack.
Bomb: Bomb is the big damage dealer that can 90% even a potemkin to death. I know all the arguments against the special move, but despite the big damage. I argue the value lies in Conditioning/Threat, and a subtle property of the minions not leaving on their own. This allows the minions to stay until they blow up, Or... recalled. Not gonna forget the fact that opponents themselves weirdly often forget about the explosion.
Recall: A criminally underrated move that is sublime for both long range, and now close range since the first big buffs to her. Recall allows you to constantly have minion flow. It can deny minions dying and help you keep the gauge running without reaching 0. There is a bit of math mid match to gauge when the best time to recall, which is there. Minion-throw/hit Minion-throw/hit Minion-hold Minions-Attack into then Recall results in 2-3 flying minion hits, with a minion attack, and then a recall that then replenishes your gauge to 2.5 servant gauge, which then you can do that order again. Recall always often gives back SUMMON BAR which is what makes Recall good. This compliments well with Bomb because the minions will not run away, which it then means you can easily gauge the best time to recall if you need to.
I see top jackos go crazy with minion juggles and attack, and I kid you not, every time I would recall and they dont, they get Blasted simply because they over extended, and the opponent was patient enough to be rewarded. Versus other jackos, I look at their minion gauge, only looking for a throw in between. When their gauge is low or bottom. I take my turn back. Recall in my case lets me re-do my approach while keeping most of my gauge. It has become such a habit, that when I look at top jacko players, I literally trigger for a recall command only for them not to do it, for the better or worse. Recall compliments with neutral.
Then the move that I think is way too underrated.
Cheer S: Armored minions cover more space, in more situations than ever. This imposes countering minions to not exist for a short while. I literally Gold burst an Anji for 2 Cheer S that eventually granted me a perfect because the Anji could not get in whatsoever. He had to just sit and watch me do the gameplay. With good 2p minion pick up play. It is as if you always have something to do with minions. Attack and Shield does not halt the gauge and If the moment calls, you can trade using Minion attack. Or set up a minion Bomb that, if it goes wrong, will still countdown and blow up making the opponent have to drop their combo or get hit.
The general flow of Recall, shield and Bomb create for such flow and conditioning that I think a lot of jackos are missing out on and are accidentally hiding something even greater within. I seriously think the overuse of minion attack is almost like playing a Lesser Zato. Cheer S is a round changer more so than Cheer H.
sol is gutted. the essence of sol is gone, he's not fun anymore and his main ways he used to have to approach are useless. why won't it stop? his 6s counter hit combos were hype, his gunflame pickups were fun, he was fun. that's the main thing is not that he's THE WORST CHARACTER EVER but he's gutted. I loved playing him after the first balance patch, not 1.0 because he was outrageous. But they went too far and it made me quit the game
Sol was weak in most games though wasnt he?
He's usually high tier but never quite top tier
Y’all downplay this character so much I just can’t get it past my head on why so.
He's unga bunga
Nago is just better.
People who keep on asking for sidewinder doesn't understand the game.
Big air punch is fun
@@SATURNOBR007 so it's just J.D
@@HellecticMojo j.D but with fire and wall bounce on clean hit
I believe he is still good it's just another case of downplaying like ky or goldlewis mains
Bro what. The strengths lk highlights in the video while true are extremely exaggerated. He underplayed how much fo hurts sol as many characters can press a fast button in his pressure and get big reward. As well his pokes are now extremely dogshit now with the 6s nerf, move is as safe as ever and now has the same reward as 2s. His other pokes such as f.s are extremely easy to stuff. He has nothing that other characters don't do better and his matchups are terrible in this version. Lk talked about his damage while on certain situations it's good it is very rare to be put in that situation (not impossible just rare) Overall he's got a shitty neutral, easy to deal with pressure and terrible knockdowns. Take my opinion with a grain of salt but sol is dogshit
@@james0644 stop downplaying he's not dogshit he's mid tier at worst and he is still better than Anji and fuast the nerfs weren't that bad he just got a slap on the wrist
@@khi92 slap on the wrist 💀. Taking away the reward on his only good far poke is not a slap on the wrist. It completely changes his whole game plan. He can no longer reliably poke from a far and get good reward. As well characters like anju and Faust before the patch sol was definitely better (I’m not gonna say anything now bc the patch just came out) but I want you to tell me who is worse than sol rn. I personally think he’s bottom 6 but that might be just me
@@james0644 I don't believe sol is dogshit he's still good he still has good conversions off hit and good strike throw and as of right now it's still to early in the patch to tell who's better or worst than sol
@@khi92 Alr I respect that take, still don’t think she’s good tho lol
I think he's super good, I don't understand how anyone thinks he's bad
Nerfed 6S is giving folks heart attacks
Bro what. The strengths lk highlights in the video while true are extremely exaggerated. He underplayed how much fd hurts sol as many characters can press a fast button in his pressure and get big reward. As well his pokes are now extremely dogshit now with the 6s nerf, move is as safe as ever and now has the same reward as 2s. His other pokes such as f.s are extremely easy to stuff. He has nothing that other characters don’t do better and his matchups are terrible in this version. Lk talked about his damage while on certain situations it’s good it is very rare to be put in that situation (not impossible just rare) Overall he’s got a shitty neutral, easy to deal with pressure and terrible knockdowns. Take my opinion with a grain of salt but sol is dogshit
@@james0644 Honestly, you're just wrong and this is a skill issue.
@@thatoneflyinghat please explain how I’m wrong
@@james0644 The answer is as simple as explaining her has options for any situation with stupid damage, not to mention a DP that does like 50% on it's own. TLDR: You're just wrong, everything you said? The opposite is true.
I think we can all agree that Sol sucks unless it's Mocchi (or Skyll) who would likely be great no matter what character he uses.
Sol just gets less fun each patch.
Why not just delete 6s at this point? Everything about the move has been nerfed. Everything. Move barely has a reason to exist.
Ppl just still dont realize how good this character was on launch he just finally became a "great" character instead of an abomination.
No, on launch he was arguably top 1 and while everyone else got buffs he’s only been nerfed, his best tools on launch are now pretty bad and the fd change really nerfed him. He is not good rn despite what lk says. Especially in this patch as his 6s is extremely risky with the reward of a 2s. You have to look at all the other characters in the game, I can only name 6 characters worse than sol rn. His strengths while strong are not as important as his weaknesses in the current meta. Take my opinion w a grain a salt but sol is dogshit rn.
@@james0644 Wasnt argueable but ok.
@@maxrusty3596 that’s what you took away from that 💀💀💀
@@james0644 And i def take a entire handful of salt Sol is fine. Hes just not op anymore. Guess u think there should more be than 6 characters worse than him. Sounds like mid tier problems bro and aint nothing wrong with that.
@@maxrusty3596 that’s bottom 6 bro that’s like on the edge of low tier. Please tell me why you think sol is fine
My issue is people saying Sol is the biggest loser this patch. If you put aside how arbitrary the 6s change seems to be, I feel like other characters like Nago and GL took a bigger hit. Their nerfs are also more deserved, I get that, but it just doesn't seem like the same thing to me.
Dawg they made 6s unhitconfirmable at its optimal range 😭
I mean Sol probably went down the most relatively, which would make him the biggest loser. Nago and GL got nerfed, but their cohorts also got nerfed, just not as much (and TBH the GL nerf is kinda just removing a crutch). Meanwhile, every other character who was near Sol got buffed, even characters who were already a lot better than him. I would also say he keeps getting less fun, which is objectively losing in a fighting game
@@NeoBoneGirl I'm more sympathetic to these points for sure, I hadn't thought of the meta implications. Fun factor is of course a thing as well. But we won't know how the meta shakes out for like 4 months, and fun is pretty subjective as a measurement.
@@shanks4u and nago has Chipp defense if he uses two specials. If by the next patch I'm wrong and the 6s change turns out to have been the biggest nerf this patch then I'll own that but I just don't see it now
Bro 6s is now a dogshit move. It’s a huge risk to through out, unhitconfirmable and now has the same reward as 2s on hit an counter hit. The only upsides to the move before the patch was that it was long and that he could deal 200+ with no meter. Now it’s gone. Every single patch they’ve nerfed rewards on his important buttons making them substantially worse. He’s the biggest loser of the game not just the patch.
Character has a F.Slash with 0 RECOVERY and a 3 frame anti-air for anyone that tries to play proper neutral and chooses to jump over a whiffed F.Slash to punish with a jump-in. Character is conceptually anti-footsies and, like Anji and I-no, needs to remain as dysfunctional as possible for the greater good of the game. The more nerfs, the better.
Why are you trying to IAD over F.S, Are you stupid? preemptive 6p, neutral 5k/2k to stuff F.S self advancing hurtbox
Bro what Tf are you talking about 💀💀💀. Far slash is so easily poked out, you don’t need to jump it just hit a button after he wiffed. This is the biggest skill issue I’ve seen in a while. If you can’t deal with far slash you’re a dogshit player 💀💀
I’m assuming the 3 frame anti-air you’re talking about is his 5k. It being a 3f anti-air is actually incorrect; the only part of the move that is 3f is the first hit, which is the knee, which is not the aa portion. Saying Chipp has a 3f aa would be more correct than Sol.
@@uncommonsense996 Incredible. A Sol playr is trying to downplay his 5K. even the usual Sol downplayers are shaking their head.
C'mon bro
@@deckbuildercassen you just have a hate boner from getting cooked by sol players bro hold that L