Been playing I-No since I got the game in September 2021 and I do think she herself is a perfectly fine character (though I would like H-Stroke nerf reverted) I think most've her problems just stem from match up spread. It feels like she's gotten power crept in the last couple matches with lots of characters getting substantial buffs and her getting comparatively little. it feels like she doesn't really have many winning match ups and a fair amount of losing ones including some absolutely painful ones like Baiken and HC.
H-stroke nerf isn't gonna be reversed but we can hope for it being changed to -1 on block so that it's not [instant block -> throw] punishable at any spacing.
i think there was a time period in strive where i-no might have been legit top 5 but it felt like such a brief time period before she started getting slapped with hard matchups back to back as annoying as some of her tools are, i think she still has to work pretty hard for her shit and more so than other characters of her archetype, i think she feels the weight of her own mistakes more so than others which lends to her matchup spread being as volatile as it is and the players who work to make it work as well as it can, all the time, deserve respect "the patch that nerfed characters like sol." do you have any idea how little that narrows it down
“All the time” is the key word here. Landed a fair few netplay tournament Top 8s and I can make I-No look really broken, but I can also make her look like a joke.
Low moves that hit hover are more common than LK says. Whether they whiff or not is dependent on spacing. At a closer spacing I-No players will use IAD to go over your lows that will hit hover. It's slower, but if you're pre-empting a lot it will hit you. When looking to counter play I-No's options, this is key. One thing that contributes to her weakness in season 2 is the H stroke nerf. Before the nerf she could run note oki after that knockdown, and the nerf made that fake. Now she has to rely on safejumps more which puts her at risk vs DP character with meter and also parry characters. At this point she feels power gapped. Several of her favored matchups in season 1 were characters who needed lots of QOL like Anji and Faust. The last 2 patches radically improved those 2 characters while I-No is slightly worse. This last patch hurt her MU spread more with the Axl and May buffs. And Sol still beats her regardless of whatever nerfs he's gotten. At this point the only buffs I want is something better than "please use this slow projectile more in neutral".
The most Strive I played was in its first season, before any dlc characters dropped. I-no was my main. I'm not a good enough player to dissect the particular problems I had with her, but she was simultaneously extremely fun and frustrating to play as. She made me enjoy my time with Strive, and she also made me exhausted with it.
When someone other then daru starts to place consistently then we can talk about her not struggling but she is not designed for the game stive wants to be
i feel like i-no cratered when they nerfed stroke the big tree. it was tough for me to figure out which version she was doing in a match and if it was my turn or not, but now I don't even have to think. she still has an RPS in the same way may does after dolphin is blocked, but it doesn't feel nearly as strong for her. i-no can still get on a roll, as you said, especially with meter. her command throw does so much damage she makes potemkin proud.
I-no's main flaw is that she needs to make 8 - 10 good guesses to win in most match ups, in a game where most chatacters need like, 5 at most She doesn't get a lot of chances to dish out Strives trademark explosive damage, nor can she lock down like a lot of characters. She works mechanically, but almost nothing she does fits into what Strive likes to reward. She's an octagon that was forced into a circular hole
I’d really disagree, I feel like she has to make fewer guesses than most characters. She doesn’t have much risk when you successfully block her mixup so it’s not really a guess to survive. Yes your opponent can make guesses to survive your mixups. But her mix is so strong I wouldn’t consider her running it as a guess
@@Caulin_ What I said was in regards to her neutral game, which is where you'll be spending most of your time in against players that know her gimmicks I agree with you on her strengths. If she gets in her favorable position, she's a monster on par with Nago or Leo and it makes up for a lot of her shortcomings. But she has a way harder time getting to it than the other stated characters do, or even most of the cast I'm not saying she's bad. She's fine, if just lacking in some unintended places. Or at least thats what I've felt ever since I started playing Strive
@@Caulin_ She has a good amount of risk after her mix is blocked depending on the matchup. It usually leaves her pretty minus and at disadvantageous spacing. Most of her gameplan is pretty bad on block. I would also say she has to guess right before running mix in the first place. Her mix is a guess of how you're defending. I'm not sure how you don't see that as a guess or a read.
been playing I-No since launch. I think she was fairly undertuned at launch and was very slow before they buffed her movement. However, she's had significant improvements to her movement that allow her to try different approaches. Besides simply improving the speed of her dash and letting you set the angle somewhat on airdash, they recently allowed her to cancel her dash startup into a dash jump or dash superjump, with different arcs from her normal jumps. She's got fairly strong neutral buttons as well, so I feel like she responds to different characters and playstyles well. I think the main thing holding her back in people's imaginations is just that there aren't very many I-No players who are both strong and popular, and all the youtubers who were playing her at launch switched characters eventually (or so it feels). Daru is pretty much the only I-No player people talk about in the English FGC so it's no wonder that she's not *perceived* as strong. All other things aside, I think she's been a blast to play and I'll keep playing her even if they nerf her out of the game or something. She already suffered through one of the worst matchups in this game (season one vs HC), so I doubt things will get that bad for her again. She's definitely a character for maniacs. But if you wanna go crazy, pick her up.
I’m an occasionally decent competitive I-No and I feel the exact same way, to the point that I’m looking for a new computer specifically to start streaming and making content. She has no guidance from anyone except Daru, who doesn’t make a ton of content and doesn’t normally speak English. At least it’s not super hard to find footage of D.O.N
Your second paragraph.. Strive I-no is just bad, and Daru carries her pretty hard. Technically LK explains very well why Strive I-no struggles. From a competitive stand point, you're better of just picking up 5min pocket Gio and pressing 3 buttons. No point making the game harder for yourself if you're playing for money. If you really like I-no though.. play Xrd... it has rollback now.
@@callanmaart I would like to say you’re being a doomer, but it’s difficult not to agree. She feels like half a character in this game. You wanna see The Crimson Minstrel cook? Get Xrd.
You know, it's interesting to hear about your point on characters who are technical, lab-heavy, and set-up based- because it makes me wonder what you think about Jack-O, who some would say actually got *more* going on in strive than she had in Xrd, despite all talk about accessibility. While she'll probably always be least played in the game... i feel like she's probably got less volatile opinions on how decent she is, compared to the other set up characters, anyway.
@Hayden Fisher I mean, you could call me a scrub because I don't want to dash without a macro anymore, lol. But I meant that once they were out and houses were down in xrd, they did their own thing. Here, you manually control everything and every action with them alters all of her frame data.
I think the devs need to look at her matchup spread and just let her ball out a little. Her changes last patch were nice, but they were very safe changes that don’t really drastically affect what she can do. H Stroke needs to be at least 0 on block. They did it for May, they reverted nerfs for Leo and buffs for Nago, they can do it for I-No. It’s not like her buttons are that fast anyway in a non-advantaged challenging situation, or like the move is particularly difficult to deal with when abused. Especially when they just added a character with a better H Stroke (Sin). I feel like I’m working a lot harder than a lot of people I fight, but I also have games where I win round start twice and double perfect. She’s a bit of a walking knowledge check, but that means you always get to (have to) try new ideas to make your opponents think twice.
As a May player, the biggest difference is Dolphin quite literally loses to everything. As long as it's active it will beat dolphin. Stroke beats like 40-60% of the moves in the game by default just because it's a super low profile. Also while H Stroke is -2 on block it's pretty plus on hit due to the stagger effect. May is pretty much always negative outside of 2K range (which is where dolphin leaves you). Other than H Dolphin, 2D, 3K, 6H, and beach ball you are always negative, even on hit. Hell even on counter hit you are typically negative, but of course 2D, 3K, and 6H are hard and soft knock downs and H Dolphin and beach ball are plus on block. So while the frame data is better this patch, it's not like you get a setup or get to press your advantage in any way, you just get to RPS. Particularly mid screen, back dashing will get you out of dodge pretty safely, and even if you want to take that space as May, at best you are neutral. It's particularly painful because 6P shuts down a lot of your approaches as May, and yet calling it out and counter hitting it with 2S leaves you 0 at best, and at worst you eat a trade where you're knocked down and THEY are plus (depending on the characters 6P properties of course). I-No on the other hand has plenty of ways to get plus from her options. Obviously the reward varies, and all her options are decently committal, and she actually has to hit you with them, but I feel like that's only when compared to the top tier characters. As a May player I feel the same way, where I can do things safely, but the reward is negligible or nonexistent where I really have to commit to something to get started, IMO I just don't have those options like I-No does. If I-No wants to get in, she can really force her way in, and you just have to guess. Again, I'm not saying she's top tier, since the top tiers can force their way in, in noncommittal ways. I just think, as committal as her options are, they are still good options and, particularly on hit, you're just IN and running the show like you want to if you guess correctly. All that said, I-No is one of those MU's that feel pretty good because you are plus more often against her as May. Those airborne blocks, in combination with May's big disjoints on things like 5H and 2H can definitely be tricky for I-No to play around. That said, get hit with HCL or dive kick or stroke and it's party time for I-No.
@@GriFFonRec4 “If I-No wants to get in, she can really force her way in.” How? May also does 8 bajillion damage off most of her hits and has a ton of health. If she commits to an unsafe option and it backfires, she’s chilling. If I-No does, she gets two-touched by half the cast. H Stroke is very rewarding on hit, as are the divekicks, but S Stroke gives no reward whatsoever on hit. It isn’t even plus enough to do a hoverdash reset. At the range you want to be safely using HCL, it does not grant any reward. It’ll give you time to cover some screen space, but that’s it. I understand what you’re saying about the reward May gets for landing her plus on block move vs the reward I-No used to get, but May is a well-rounded character with other options to get started other than RPSing between dashing in like a lunatic and using H Dolphin. Most of her pressure situations come from winning neutral with her insane air movement and massive buttons. I-No doesn’t have that luxury. She can’t whiff punish easily and her movement leaves her vulnerable. When H Stroke is minus, it becomes very easy to defend against her by just doing short dashes, hitting 5p to check hoverdash, and blocking low if you see Stroke. That tactic becomes the most skewed risk/reward situation in the game: it’s almost completely safe while simultaneously completely shutting I-No down.
Also, maybe this is a knowledge gap on my part, but I have never seen May counterhit someone with 2s and then wind up in a situation where she loses advantage or trades. She combos into S Dolphin if she has a charge or she just microdashes and starts pressure, both of which are great for her. I feel you on 2s trading with 6p though. Happens all the time when I used Stroke to call out 6p.
I love how they adapted I-No into Strive, specially after the air gatling change. She's definitely the character I would be playing right now if Testament was not as fun as they are. As annoying as she is, I just hope they revert the change to H Stroke at some point.
Thanks for making a video on my main LK, it feels like a lot of people have given up on this character which sucks because it makes it hard to find coverage from higher level players. Daru's stuff is great but since I don't understand Korean and can't play like him it's hard to just apply stuff he does. E.g. I've seen him doing a HCL->PRC Drift trick which seems neat...but I'm not sure when or if I should even do it. Other stuff he does I just can't get the timing for...and he seems to have it as BnBs XD
A video on Sin in this series would be interesting. There's a ton of Sin doomers saying he's bottom 2 but a lot of top players also say they think he's not that bad
I think Sin needs help, just not a lot, I feel like he could easily become broken with the right/wrong buffs. I think he is lower tier than what people felt he would be or even wanted him to be.
They just need to revert h stroke and she’s perfect. She struggles with neutral in exchange for huge offense, but ever since the nerf, the offensive just isn’t good enough to justify playing her with the downsides. When characters like Bridget, millia, happy chaos, Leo, zato, and Ram all get ridiculous offensive while having great neutral options, I-no often feels like you’re always fighting an uphill battle
@@Hokag3Chrisku if you’re in the eu region and are level 50 - 150 I’m down to try my I-no against you. (I’m a Ky main so don’t expect much from my I-no)
New player here currently at floor 6 with Potemkin (who I like very very much). I usually find fair matches, except when I find I-No. I don't get her, I-No players wipe the floor with my poor guy. What do I do? Any general tips for the matchup?
I've mostly gotten used to the change. I think H.Stroke being plus squeezed out any reason to use S.Stroke which does have its uses now, because no one expects you to use it since the only thing they know is that it's "worse" than H.Stroke 🙂
Probably never gonna happen. I'm guessing that the devs looked at all the low profile lows like stun dipper, nightraid vortex and thought, "yo, wait, why does this get to be positive on block." Which does make a bit of sense that it's weird that she should get a positive low exclusive to her.
@HellecticMojo it's very reductive to just look at the low profile property and stop there. Stun dipper has 5 frames of startup, H stroke is 28f, it can be interrupted on reaction. Moves with long and reactable startups tend to be plus on block: gio drill, foudre arc (both of which are high profile), leo crossup, etc. Moves with fast and unreactable startups tend to be minus, which is why S stroke is -7, a move thats more analogous to stun dipper. And this is not even going into the place those moves hold in their respective characters toolkit.
@@HellecticMojo They all have other traits though. like eating a projectile(drill), being a decent combo starter with controllable range(night raid), puts leo into his win condition, stun dipper has its absurd speed. While h stroke really only has the low profile. foudre arc is both faster and can be made plus while being hard to fuzzy. Also night raid isn't even a low. its a mid.
I recently started trying to have a pocket I-no bc use she’s hella fun to play but NEED some changes. I would say - give her vertical CL back as a DP - lower the hit box on horizontal CL. - Make 2S an actual low. - reduce recovery on note/ allow the button to be held to control the direction so u can choose how long u have to recover
So as a I-no main, for me she is mid tier. I won't say she is top as the japanese say (she has to commit a lot), but I won't she is low tier either because it seems unreasonable given her strong points. The very big problem with the character is the HC mu.
This type of video needs to be done on Chipp. People speak about him very highly but it’s always people that don’t play him. I think he’s mediocre in terms of relative strength
Overall you did a pretty good job explaining her pro and cons. Overall i've been main her since the later half of season 2 and overall, not only is she really fun but also i would say she's really good. Like in-between what Asian region and what Overseas region think. The main issue I that so far with the character is, which thing that you mention, that is interactable pressure. It kinda goes a bit deeper than what you explain, and makes her much more of a volatile character, especially when you're playing against high-level players. Overall she's very close to being in that sweet spot with only either an adjustment to making her pressure less interactable or her enhancing her neutral tools most notably Note, especially with it's extremely slow recovery.
Your statement about her being linear feels spot on. Like your fellow man, Apologyman, said: "Ok, I'm looking for hoverdash to 5K it .. OH NO she did H-stroke. Well guess what, you're negative in my face now." The angles of approach are so much more limited with nerfed H-stroke and the move feels more like a hard callout tool now with skewed risk-return. This latest version of I-No depends too heavily on mistakes by the opponent and then HAS to kill with that opportunity but given how many times she has to hit you the opponent has multiple chances to pick something. After the S2 patch I switched to Jack-O because while the bad matchups against the top-tiers are still terrible, at least it feels like I have more agency in neutral, can achieve my win condition more easily and have various approach strategies against different characters instead of just .... either turtling or flinging myself at them.
As a scrub teetering on floor 7, I know that I-No is struggling. Fighting mainly Ram, Leo, and May, I know that if I don't stay calm and stick to a gameplan, I'll lose the set. But I-No, theres' no plan, I just play. She isn't bad, but she doesn't feel threatening, and thats very bad.
Character strength does not matter very much at floor 7, you can pick literally any character and succeed at that level, you just gotta work on eliminating your bad habits, and you WILL SUCCEED! I-No definitely has a game-plan, even if you aren't familiar with it, this video goes over a good amount of it. I-No on offense is VERY threatening.
It's more likely you are doing two to three things consistently wrong. Floor 7 tends to be 3 mistakes, 8th being two mistakes, 9th being one bad habit, while stuck at 10 being mostly a consistency or knowledge check issue. Post a match replay of your choice. I'm sure people can identify one or two mistakes to immediately send you to floor 9+
@@AdamJorgensen Floor 7s do not know how to fight I-No, that’s true. But you have to remember that Floor 7s also do not know how to play I-No. She’s not like Potemkin where she checks new players and is also easy to use.
Been having such a blast re-learning her in Xrd. The execution requirements are sick because it feels so nice to land the good oki in match and hitting a setup right gives insane reward.
+R I-No isn't top tier, but she's certainly her most fun incarnation by far. The amount of cool stuff she can do is second to none, she plays the system mechanics (FRC) to a tee.
I’m with Japan on this one. All you have to do is dash for a mix which is extremely strong. She’s very strong; when she gets in you have to guess the whole time, at that time it turns into a single player game.
I'd say... Potemkin. That's the only one I can think of that still feels really advantageous. Maybe Jack-O and Millia? Gio, Ram, and Goldlewis all feel good as far as tools vs tools, but they outdamage I-no so hard. Meanwhile if you meet a Baiken or HC in bracket, pack it up, your dunzo kid. Anji feels really rough for I-no now too.
Very few, and the ones she’s advantaged in can turn on a dime. Her zoning tools interact very favorably with Testament’s, so considering Testament is a zoner I’d say she’s advantaged there. I-No’s will try and tell you Test’s 6p makes the matchup unplayable but that’s just not true. Goldlewis is also pretty good for her. HCL is a problem for him, and he’s so slow/large that throwing out Note and forcing him to block it is pretty free. That said, if he touches her once, go next. Those two and Potemkin are it. I personally find Sin easy, but Sins think I-No is in their favor. Most of her “good” matchups are really just slightly advantaged.
@@colinm5545 Millia is a dogshit matchup for I-No, one of her five worst in the game. Impossible to catch, difficult to pin down, hard to escape from once she gets in, solid abare options to check I-No’s best mix. Jack-O is pretty even for I-No-if there’s an advantage, it’s slight.
@@effay3204 True. It’s funny-I’ve heard Jack-O’s say the matchup is unwinnable because Carrot of Wisdom said so, and then I looked at Carrot’s Twitter and they said the MU is slightly I-No advantaged. I don’t think anyone really knows.
idk if this is a good idea, and this would never get added to the game but my idea to fix the i-no/happy chaos match up: - increase the amount of tension she gains when blocking projectiles without faultless defense. - give her a super that instantly puts her in close range of her opponent. right now imo its just so unfair how she gets bullied so hard in this one matchup
me struggling as i-no > sees LK video > "i knew it wasn't me being bad, it was the character!"
lol
Lol same. I've been telling my friends she's not that good.
Watch Daru and keep thinking that.
Been playing I-No since I got the game in September 2021 and I do think she herself is a perfectly fine character (though I would like H-Stroke nerf reverted) I think most've her problems just stem from match up spread.
It feels like she's gotten power crept in the last couple matches with lots of characters getting substantial buffs and her getting comparatively little. it feels like she doesn't really have many winning match ups and a fair amount of losing ones including some absolutely painful ones like Baiken and HC.
Her issue is that her gameplan is easily counterable by the majority of the cast now.
H-stroke nerf isn't gonna be reversed but we can hope for it being changed to -1 on block so that it's not [instant block -> throw] punishable at any spacing.
i think there was a time period in strive where i-no might have been legit top 5 but it felt like such a brief time period before she started getting slapped with hard matchups back to back
as annoying as some of her tools are, i think she still has to work pretty hard for her shit and more so than other characters of her archetype, i think she feels the weight of her own mistakes more so than others which lends to her matchup spread being as volatile as it is
and the players who work to make it work as well as it can, all the time, deserve respect
"the patch that nerfed characters like sol."
do you have any idea how little that narrows it down
“All the time” is the key word here. Landed a fair few netplay tournament Top 8s and I can make I-No look really broken, but I can also make her look like a joke.
He literally says right before “the patch that nerfs sol”, “The October patch when Jack-O was released.”
Low moves that hit hover are more common than LK says. Whether they whiff or not is dependent on spacing. At a closer spacing I-No players will use IAD to go over your lows that will hit hover. It's slower, but if you're pre-empting a lot it will hit you. When looking to counter play I-No's options, this is key.
One thing that contributes to her weakness in season 2 is the H stroke nerf. Before the nerf she could run note oki after that knockdown, and the nerf made that fake. Now she has to rely on safejumps more which puts her at risk vs DP character with meter and also parry characters.
At this point she feels power gapped. Several of her favored matchups in season 1 were characters who needed lots of QOL like Anji and Faust. The last 2 patches radically improved those 2 characters while I-No is slightly worse. This last patch hurt her MU spread more with the Axl and May buffs. And Sol still beats her regardless of whatever nerfs he's gotten. At this point the only buffs I want is something better than "please use this slow projectile more in neutral".
Bingo. Part of what makes Sol and Baiken such bad matchups is the chunky hitboxes on their 2s.
I don't think I'll ever get over losing the vertical follow up to Chemical Love.
Bruh same it was needed for the extra sauce
it would be pretty useless since every hit is a knockdown in Strive
in the best way possible, LK really just making videos
He is legendary downplayer youtbe creator
The most Strive I played was in its first season, before any dlc characters dropped. I-no was my main. I'm not a good enough player to dissect the particular problems I had with her, but she was simultaneously extremely fun and frustrating to play as. She made me enjoy my time with Strive, and she also made me exhausted with it.
I’ve played her since release and this is exactly it. The highest highs and the lowest lows.
She reminds me of Millia where I thought her combo sauce was in the air because of her forward momentum
@@haydenfisher1387 She has some cool air extensions, especially with the divekick buffs. But mostly she has no combo sauce. Blame the H Stroke nerf.
You just taught me about wall-slump, which might help my I-No a lot!
When someone other then daru starts to place consistently then we can talk about her not struggling but she is not designed for the game stive wants to be
Yea some chars are actual guilty gear characters and others are failed implementations.
This is the weirdest part to me. I get Asia values her based off Daru, but is ANYONE else in the region performing that well with her?
Similar with Jiro and Anji.
I'm about to be @@Dhamphyre
i feel like i-no cratered when they nerfed stroke the big tree. it was tough for me to figure out which version she was doing in a match and if it was my turn or not, but now I don't even have to think. she still has an RPS in the same way may does after dolphin is blocked, but it doesn't feel nearly as strong for her.
i-no can still get on a roll, as you said, especially with meter. her command throw does so much damage she makes potemkin proud.
“I was on a roll
I had to stop”
Daisuke tried to warn us.
I-no's main flaw is that she needs to make 8 - 10 good guesses to win in most match ups, in a game where most chatacters need like, 5 at most
She doesn't get a lot of chances to dish out Strives trademark explosive damage, nor can she lock down like a lot of characters. She works mechanically, but almost nothing she does fits into what Strive likes to reward. She's an octagon that was forced into a circular hole
I’d really disagree, I feel like she has to make fewer guesses than most characters. She doesn’t have much risk when you successfully block her mixup so it’s not really a guess to survive. Yes your opponent can make guesses to survive your mixups. But her mix is so strong I wouldn’t consider her running it as a guess
not saying she doesn’t have flaws but i feel like how consistent and strong her advantage state is isn’t one of them
@@Caulin_
What I said was in regards to her neutral game, which is where you'll be spending most of your time in against players that know her gimmicks
I agree with you on her strengths. If she gets in her favorable position, she's a monster on par with Nago or Leo and it makes up for a lot of her shortcomings. But she has a way harder time getting to it than the other stated characters do, or even most of the cast
I'm not saying she's bad. She's fine, if just lacking in some unintended places. Or at least thats what I've felt ever since I started playing Strive
@@Caulin_ She has a good amount of risk after her mix is blocked depending on the matchup. It usually leaves her pretty minus and at disadvantageous spacing. Most of her gameplan is pretty bad on block. I would also say she has to guess right before running mix in the first place.
Her mix is a guess of how you're defending. I'm not sure how you don't see that as a guess or a read.
It goes in the square hole.
actually helped me understand the matchup alot more, great video
been playing I-No since launch. I think she was fairly undertuned at launch and was very slow before they buffed her movement. However, she's had significant improvements to her movement that allow her to try different approaches. Besides simply improving the speed of her dash and letting you set the angle somewhat on airdash, they recently allowed her to cancel her dash startup into a dash jump or dash superjump, with different arcs from her normal jumps. She's got fairly strong neutral buttons as well, so I feel like she responds to different characters and playstyles well.
I think the main thing holding her back in people's imaginations is just that there aren't very many I-No players who are both strong and popular, and all the youtubers who were playing her at launch switched characters eventually (or so it feels). Daru is pretty much the only I-No player people talk about in the English FGC so it's no wonder that she's not *perceived* as strong.
All other things aside, I think she's been a blast to play and I'll keep playing her even if they nerf her out of the game or something. She already suffered through one of the worst matchups in this game (season one vs HC), so I doubt things will get that bad for her again. She's definitely a character for maniacs. But if you wanna go crazy, pick her up.
I’m an occasionally decent competitive I-No and I feel the exact same way, to the point that I’m looking for a new computer specifically to start streaming and making content. She has no guidance from anyone except Daru, who doesn’t make a ton of content and doesn’t normally speak English. At least it’s not super hard to find footage of D.O.N
@@Dhamphyre She just needs more people who believe in her! she made a pretty good showing over at the Magfest Strive tourney, hehe
Your second paragraph.. Strive I-no is just bad, and Daru carries her pretty hard. Technically LK explains very well why Strive I-no struggles. From a competitive stand point, you're better of just picking up 5min pocket Gio and pressing 3 buttons. No point making the game harder for yourself if you're playing for money.
If you really like I-no though.. play Xrd... it has rollback now.
@@callanmaart I would like to say you’re being a doomer, but it’s difficult not to agree. She feels like half a character in this game. You wanna see The Crimson Minstrel cook? Get Xrd.
@@callanmaart do you play i-no? if not then who cares what you think.
You know, it's interesting to hear about your point on characters who are technical, lab-heavy, and set-up based- because it makes me wonder what you think about Jack-O, who some would say actually got *more* going on in strive than she had in Xrd, despite all talk about accessibility. While she'll probably always be least played in the game... i feel like she's probably got less volatile opinions on how decent she is, compared to the other set up characters, anyway.
Call me a scrub but like I don’t want to do all those organ minion summons mid combo while getting my head slammed in Xrd
@Hayden Fisher I mean, you could call me a scrub because I don't want to dash without a macro anymore, lol. But I meant that once they were out and houses were down in xrd, they did their own thing. Here, you manually control everything and every action with them alters all of her frame data.
I took a break from Strive, but I was an I-No main. Hands down one of the most fun yet frustrating characters I've played in a fighting game.
Why didn’t they keep the super animation at 1:23? It’s so much more expressive, much more “I-No.”
I think the devs need to look at her matchup spread and just let her ball out a little. Her changes last patch were nice, but they were very safe changes that don’t really drastically affect what she can do. H Stroke needs to be at least 0 on block. They did it for May, they reverted nerfs for Leo and buffs for Nago, they can do it for I-No. It’s not like her buttons are that fast anyway in a non-advantaged challenging situation, or like the move is particularly difficult to deal with when abused. Especially when they just added a character with a better H Stroke (Sin).
I feel like I’m working a lot harder than a lot of people I fight, but I also have games where I win round start twice and double perfect. She’s a bit of a walking knowledge check, but that means you always get to (have to) try new ideas to make your opponents think twice.
As a May player, the biggest difference is Dolphin quite literally loses to everything. As long as it's active it will beat dolphin. Stroke beats like 40-60% of the moves in the game by default just because it's a super low profile. Also while H Stroke is -2 on block it's pretty plus on hit due to the stagger effect. May is pretty much always negative outside of 2K range (which is where dolphin leaves you). Other than H Dolphin, 2D, 3K, 6H, and beach ball you are always negative, even on hit. Hell even on counter hit you are typically negative, but of course 2D, 3K, and 6H are hard and soft knock downs and H Dolphin and beach ball are plus on block. So while the frame data is better this patch, it's not like you get a setup or get to press your advantage in any way, you just get to RPS. Particularly mid screen, back dashing will get you out of dodge pretty safely, and even if you want to take that space as May, at best you are neutral. It's particularly painful because 6P shuts down a lot of your approaches as May, and yet calling it out and counter hitting it with 2S leaves you 0 at best, and at worst you eat a trade where you're knocked down and THEY are plus (depending on the characters 6P properties of course).
I-No on the other hand has plenty of ways to get plus from her options. Obviously the reward varies, and all her options are decently committal, and she actually has to hit you with them, but I feel like that's only when compared to the top tier characters. As a May player I feel the same way, where I can do things safely, but the reward is negligible or nonexistent where I really have to commit to something to get started, IMO I just don't have those options like I-No does. If I-No wants to get in, she can really force her way in, and you just have to guess. Again, I'm not saying she's top tier, since the top tiers can force their way in, in noncommittal ways. I just think, as committal as her options are, they are still good options and, particularly on hit, you're just IN and running the show like you want to if you guess correctly.
All that said, I-No is one of those MU's that feel pretty good because you are plus more often against her as May. Those airborne blocks, in combination with May's big disjoints on things like 5H and 2H can definitely be tricky for I-No to play around. That said, get hit with HCL or dive kick or stroke and it's party time for I-No.
@@GriFFonRec4 “If I-No wants to get in, she can really force her way in.” How?
May also does 8 bajillion damage off most of her hits and has a ton of health. If she commits to an unsafe option and it backfires, she’s chilling. If I-No does, she gets two-touched by half the cast. H Stroke is very rewarding on hit, as are the divekicks, but S Stroke gives no reward whatsoever on hit. It isn’t even plus enough to do a hoverdash reset. At the range you want to be safely using HCL, it does not grant any reward. It’ll give you time to cover some screen space, but that’s it.
I understand what you’re saying about the reward May gets for landing her plus on block move vs the reward I-No used to get, but May is a well-rounded character with other options to get started other than RPSing between dashing in like a lunatic and using H Dolphin. Most of her pressure situations come from winning neutral with her insane air movement and massive buttons. I-No doesn’t have that luxury. She can’t whiff punish easily and her movement leaves her vulnerable. When H Stroke is minus, it becomes very easy to defend against her by just doing short dashes, hitting 5p to check hoverdash, and blocking low if you see Stroke. That tactic becomes the most skewed risk/reward situation in the game: it’s almost completely safe while simultaneously completely shutting I-No down.
Also, maybe this is a knowledge gap on my part, but I have never seen May counterhit someone with 2s and then wind up in a situation where she loses advantage or trades. She combos into S Dolphin if she has a charge or she just microdashes and starts pressure, both of which are great for her. I feel you on 2s trading with 6p though. Happens all the time when I used Stroke to call out 6p.
I love how they adapted I-No into Strive, specially after the air gatling change. She's definitely the character I would be playing right now if Testament was not as fun as they are. As annoying as she is, I just hope they revert the change to H Stroke at some point.
Yeah it feels so hard to get in and start any pressure now
Arc Sys never really reverts changes. If it’s plus it’ll be +1 or +3
@@CodeTetsu Take a peek at the history of Leo Whitefang’s Strive changes for me
@@Dhamphyre How though?
@@CodeTetsu How do you look at the changes, or how are Leo’s changes relevant?
combo of happy chaos and stroke nerf and I dipped the hell out for Baiken.
Babe wake up LordKnight uploaded another video.
Thanks for making a video on my main LK, it feels like a lot of people have given up on this character which sucks because it makes it hard to find coverage from higher level players. Daru's stuff is great but since I don't understand Korean and can't play like him it's hard to just apply stuff he does. E.g. I've seen him doing a HCL->PRC Drift trick which seems neat...but I'm not sure when or if I should even do it. Other stuff he does I just can't get the timing for...and he seems to have it as BnBs XD
indeed even Diaphone gave up on her a long time ago the only one representing her is Daru
daru does speak english sometimes on stream but idk if anyones compiling that stuff. he will respond to english chatters from time to time too
@@illyrian94 I just made it up to 9F for the first time today, so maybe we'll meet in 10F sometime :-)
A video on Sin in this series would be interesting. There's a ton of Sin doomers saying he's bottom 2 but a lot of top players also say they think he's not that bad
Sin's problem is easy to diagnose - he's one patch behind everyone else, so he only for system changes to work with.
I think Sin needs help, just not a lot, I feel like he could easily become broken with the right/wrong buffs. I think he is lower tier than what people felt he would be or even wanted him to be.
They just need to revert h stroke and she’s perfect. She struggles with neutral in exchange for huge offense, but ever since the nerf, the offensive just isn’t good enough to justify playing her with the downsides. When characters like Bridget, millia, happy chaos, Leo, zato, and Ram all get ridiculous offensive while having great neutral options, I-no often feels like you’re always fighting an uphill battle
Ino is struggling when I play her…I swear everyone bought the same headphones
I-no deserves nerfs when I guess wrong on the 50/50
@@funkuro lmao basically how I feel when I used to fight ino
@@Hokag3Chrisku ‘used to’ ?
@@funkuro can’t remember the last time I when against an ino player
@@Hokag3Chrisku if you’re in the eu region and are level 50 - 150 I’m down to try my I-no against you. (I’m a Ky main so don’t expect much from my I-no)
New player here currently at floor 6 with Potemkin (who I like very very much). I usually find fair matches, except when I find I-No. I don't get her, I-No players wipe the floor with my poor guy. What do I do? Any general tips for the matchup?
I just want HS stroke to be plus again : (
I've mostly gotten used to the change. I think H.Stroke being plus squeezed out any reason to use S.Stroke which does have its uses now, because no one expects you to use it since the only thing they know is that it's "worse" than H.Stroke 🙂
Probably never gonna happen. I'm guessing that the devs looked at all the low profile lows like stun dipper, nightraid vortex and thought, "yo, wait, why does this get to be positive on block." Which does make a bit of sense that it's weird that she should get a positive low exclusive to her.
@HellecticMojo it's very reductive to just look at the low profile property and stop there. Stun dipper has 5 frames of startup, H stroke is 28f, it can be interrupted on reaction. Moves with long and reactable startups tend to be plus on block: gio drill, foudre arc (both of which are high profile), leo crossup, etc. Moves with fast and unreactable startups tend to be minus, which is why S stroke is -7, a move thats more analogous to stun dipper. And this is not even going into the place those moves hold in their respective characters toolkit.
@@squoid9819 plus moves you mentioned are all mids. Ino was the one that had an explicit low profile low that was also positive.
@@HellecticMojo They all have other traits though. like eating a projectile(drill), being a decent combo starter with controllable range(night raid), puts leo into his win condition, stun dipper has its absurd speed. While h stroke really only has the low profile. foudre arc is both faster and can be made plus while being hard to fuzzy. Also night raid isn't even a low. its a mid.
The issue is that I-no's gameplan is easily counterable by like 70% of the cast now
70% is way to low 💀 what match up does she actually win against?
"ky's 5k is really juiced"
Ky players did not like that.
I-no my beloved
To be honest I feel like she's just going to just sneak up and be strong out of nowhere one day.
She's gotten so many insignificant/barely significant buffs that one thing could bring it all together.
@@bt_11 ngl dive is pretty significant in the hands of masters. She's not a scrub character. but she's a scrub killer for sure
i wish her air dash wasnt slow and wasnt angled down
Plus on h-STBT would have such disastrous consequences, but I want it so bad
any second now
Could you do baiken match ups which ones she’s good
As an Ino Main, long story short:
YES
I recently started trying to have a pocket I-no bc use she’s hella fun to play but NEED some changes. I would say
- give her vertical CL back as a DP
- lower the hit box on horizontal CL. - Make 2S an actual low.
- reduce recovery on note/ allow the button to be held to control the direction so u can choose how long u have to recover
2s should not be a low, signed I-No main since day 1. Note recovery buff is a must.
A DP for I-no ? Nah, fuck that.
@@wl4810 VCL isn’t a true DP. No invul. It’s similar to May’s vertical dolphin or TK Youzansen for Baiken.
@@Dhamphyre He said "As a DP".
So as a I-no main, for me she is mid tier. I won't say she is top as the japanese say (she has to commit a lot), but I won't she is low tier either because it seems unreasonable given her strong points.
The very big problem with the character is the HC mu.
I would love to see testament next
This type of video needs to be done on Chipp. People speak about him very highly but it’s always people that don’t play him. I think he’s mediocre in terms of relative strength
She struggles against so much of the cast and the damage in this game does not favor her.
Ino isn't struggling but she gotta work fr
Would have liked to know more about why the Eastern players rank her so highly. Big fan but she really just doesn't feel that strong.
Daru, that's all.
revert H stroke and i think we're good. or at least change it on hit so we get the old oki
Overall you did a pretty good job explaining her pro and cons. Overall i've been main her since the later half of season 2 and overall, not only is she really fun but also i would say she's really good. Like in-between what Asian region and what Overseas region think. The main issue I that so far with the character is, which thing that you mention, that is interactable pressure. It kinda goes a bit deeper than what you explain, and makes her much more of a volatile character, especially when you're playing against high-level players. Overall she's very close to being in that sweet spot with only either an adjustment to making her pressure less interactable or her enhancing her neutral tools most notably Note, especially with it's extremely slow recovery.
Your statement about her being linear feels spot on. Like your fellow man, Apologyman, said: "Ok, I'm looking for hoverdash to 5K it .. OH NO she did H-stroke. Well guess what, you're negative in my face now."
The angles of approach are so much more limited with nerfed H-stroke and the move feels more like a hard callout tool now with skewed risk-return.
This latest version of I-No depends too heavily on mistakes by the opponent and then HAS to kill with that opportunity but given how many times she has to hit you the opponent has multiple chances to pick something.
After the S2 patch I switched to Jack-O because while the bad matchups against the top-tiers are still terrible, at least it feels like I have more agency in neutral, can achieve my win condition more easily and have various approach strategies against different characters instead of just .... either turtling or flinging myself at them.
YES
All I heard was "Buff I-No" :)
I-No is struggling?
My Offline CPU say different
When you get a Character's Kit down, you'd be surprised what'chu can do
On... 2nd thought, I-no seems to struggle, Online
Half the time, her Motion Inputs don't work
us in-o players are really just playing rock paper scissors. at all stages in the game besides defense. at least i am
Ky with the sunny D 5k
As a scrub teetering on floor 7, I know that I-No is struggling. Fighting mainly Ram, Leo, and May, I know that if I don't stay calm and stick to a gameplan, I'll lose the set. But I-No, theres' no plan, I just play. She isn't bad, but she doesn't feel threatening, and thats very bad.
Character strength does not matter very much at floor 7, you can pick literally any character and succeed at that level, you just gotta work on eliminating your bad habits, and you WILL SUCCEED! I-No definitely has a game-plan, even if you aren't familiar with it, this video goes over a good amount of it. I-No on offense is VERY threatening.
It's more likely you are doing two to three things consistently wrong. Floor 7 tends to be 3 mistakes, 8th being two mistakes, 9th being one bad habit, while stuck at 10 being mostly a consistency or knowledge check issue.
Post a match replay of your choice. I'm sure people can identify one or two mistakes to immediately send you to floor 9+
At floor 7 and below I-No has no issues, most people there don't face her often enough to know what to do and you can just faceroll with cheap stuff.
Floor 7 character string isn't real compared to ease of use
@@AdamJorgensen Floor 7s do not know how to fight I-No, that’s true. But you have to remember that Floor 7s also do not know how to play I-No. She’s not like Potemkin where she checks new players and is also easy to use.
I think she and Millie suffer from the same issue except she's better off
Strive I-No is the least interesting she has ever been. Thank God Rev 2 and +R have rollback.
Been having such a blast re-learning her in Xrd. The execution requirements are sick because it feels so nice to land the good oki in match and hitting a setup right gives insane reward.
Agreed, I don't know how someone can play her in strive. Especially with how sick she is in Xrd. She feels like a straight-up downgrade.
+R I-No isn't top tier, but she's certainly her most fun incarnation by far. The amount of cool stuff she can do is second to none, she plays the system mechanics (FRC) to a tee.
I’m with Japan on this one. All you have to do is dash for a mix which is extremely strong. She’s very strong; when she gets in you have to guess the whole time, at that time it turns into a single player game.
I-No is the best character in the game.
Does she have any matchups solidly in her favor anymore? She definitely did, but after last patch I'm not so sure.
I'd say... Potemkin. That's the only one I can think of that still feels really advantageous. Maybe Jack-O and Millia? Gio, Ram, and Goldlewis all feel good as far as tools vs tools, but they outdamage I-no so hard.
Meanwhile if you meet a Baiken or HC in bracket, pack it up, your dunzo kid. Anji feels really rough for I-no now too.
Very few, and the ones she’s advantaged in can turn on a dime. Her zoning tools interact very favorably with Testament’s, so considering Testament is a zoner I’d say she’s advantaged there. I-No’s will try and tell you Test’s 6p makes the matchup unplayable but that’s just not true.
Goldlewis is also pretty good for her. HCL is a problem for him, and he’s so slow/large that throwing out Note and forcing him to block it is pretty free. That said, if he touches her once, go next. Those two and Potemkin are it. I personally find Sin easy, but Sins think I-No is in their favor. Most of her “good” matchups are really just slightly advantaged.
@@colinm5545 Millia is a dogshit matchup for I-No, one of her five worst in the game. Impossible to catch, difficult to pin down, hard to escape from once she gets in, solid abare options to check I-No’s best mix. Jack-O is pretty even for I-No-if there’s an advantage, it’s slight.
@@Dhamphyre I'm not sure about Jack-O, its hard to say because there are even less strong Jack-O's than there are I-No's.
@@effay3204 True. It’s funny-I’ve heard Jack-O’s say the matchup is unwinnable because Carrot of Wisdom said so, and then I looked at Carrot’s Twitter and they said the MU is slightly I-No advantaged. I don’t think anyone really knows.
Yoo my grandma has those same elephants
More like Asia rating players over characters strengths in a vacuum again maaaaaybbbbeeee…. Or just Daru I-no
Now do Potemkin.
idk if this is a good idea, and this would never get added to the game but my idea to fix the i-no/happy chaos match up:
- increase the amount of tension she gains when blocking projectiles without faultless defense.
- give her a super that instantly puts her in close range of her opponent.
right now imo its just so unfair how she gets bullied so hard in this one matchup
This sounds pretty busted ngl
As an I-No main, those are both poor ideas. All the meter in the world doesn’t help her from full screen. The second idea is BEYOND broken.
This game needs blitz to stop braindead offense, but i guess thats kinda the point of strive. Kinda off topic but yea.
Is Ino being downplayed in gg strive ?
^ Serial Baiken Downplayer
Strive I-No is so dumb rn
This patch she's defo weak and now more unfun
She also dies. She dies alot
oh god don't feed the downplayers
I-No is fine
I-No players, on the other hand. I swear our collective IQ has dropped about ten points now that dive is safe
Bro why do you call Ky Kyle
I've been playing this game since it dropped. She's good now. A mid tier but still good.
Why Luke struggle so much at SF5? Poor guy
I think the question we should be asking:
"Is Ino struggling enough?"
first
Good 😂😂😂
No
You just have to try harder with those characters
@@TEEZ99 that’s just another way of saying you have to struggle a bit lol
@@paletapayasofan it's called strive for a reason ;-)
In my opinion, I think it's not that I-No struggles at the game, it's just that she's really hard to learn.
what makes her hard to learn?
@@goose_asdf her moveset, as well as she flies instead of running
yeah she's struggling, please keep it that way i am NOT blocking that shit
no. next
Good, please stay struggling. Top tier Ino is mad toxic