How Do I Increase My Alternator Output to Charge My Batteries Faster?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มี.ค. 2021
- This is one of the number one products we use to increase the output of your boat’s marine alternator. Mick asks, “I notice that my 80 amp alternator will start charging at 60+ amps when my batteries are low (around 70%). However, almost immediately the alternator drops to 20 amps - can you explain? Do I need a larger alternator?”
Read our Tech Talk Article from Pacific Yachting Magazine, "Charging Batteries from an Alternator", www.pysystems.ca/resources/te...
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Awesome. Exactly what I needed to know.
"First bite is the same as the last bite for lithium" Great way to put that and thanks for the video.
Another way to sum up what you said: The charging system sees the battery as a resistor. During a state of discharge, given a constant voltage, current flow will be higher. As the battery charge increases it builds heat due to current flow. Two things happen: 1) The alternator at that stage is charging the electrolyte in the battery, not necessarily the plates. It takes time for electrons to move from the fluid onto the plates. For a completely dead battery it takes days. 2) As the battery charge level (and heat) increases current flow decreases because it is not as easy to push electrons into the electrolyte. Incidentally, for a battery to FULLY charge is takes a very small current (like a maintainer) several hours or days to to off. The maintainer pushed only milliamps into the battery which does not raise the temperature..... which is why the battery can now fully charge. I was a master mechanic for General Motors - retired.
Hi Dave, very well explained, thanks for sharing.
Great video!
Thanks!
i have learned so much from your videos thank you i have a proisocharger now can i run a external regulator with it 1 house bank1 thruster battery and1 starting battery thanks
Great video Jeff... don’t worry you will find a decent investment advisor one day!
I hope so!
My understanding is that Lead-Acid batteries actually lose capacity as they age. It is also my understanding that some battery monitors adjust for that, but traditionally they had to be re-calibrated to be accurate. Either way, the interpretation of SOC% turns out to be a bit trickier than it first appears. I think this is what is behind your comment that the absorption phase kicks in sooner, but perhaps you would explain it better than I have.
Hi Bruce, bang on and well explained.
Hi, I have a 2022 Yamaha jet boat with twin 1800 motors, they don’t have regula alternators, they use flywheel magneto stator coil to produce electricity, I would like to know if I can still use the BALMAR MC-618 Alternator Regulator? Thank you!!!
Jeff, I have a Yanmar 3GM30F with an Hitachi alternator (55 AMP I believe); can this alternator be used with an external regulator? Does the Alternator need to have some conversion done to it prior to connecting an external regulator?
Hi
Iv been watching all your videos on TH-cam and iv seen a bit where Jeff says that extra resistance on a windlass motor circuit creats voltage drop which increases the current through the motor and causes it to overheat.
Iv been struggling with understanding the logic of this and (now I cannot find the bit) would love it if you could do a video about this.
Thank you
Gal
What a great question. I just finished a motor course and the answer has to do with how motors are designed. When a motor is free spinning it has very little load, and the rpm's increase to a point where back EMF from the motor causes a reverse voltage that reduces the forward current through the motor. Back EMF is insignificant until the motor gets up to speed. When a load is put on the motor, rpm's fall, back-EMF falls, and as a result current draw increases, especially in the brushed DC motors that are used for windlass and starter motors. So, current draw for these motors is all about rotor speed and the torque required to get the rotor spinning, with the greatest strain in the first few seconds when the motor hasn't ramped up to speed. That initial high current through the windings is bad for the motor, if the rotor is seized you can melt the insulated windings of a motor in less than a minute! When the incoming voltage is reduced, the torque the motor can put out is also reduced, and the motor spends more time in that vulnerable moment where an incoming current spike is not restrained by back EMF. So, paradoxically, you get a longer and greater spike of inrush current in a motor that is fed with reduced voltage. Another way to look at it is to look at power input. A specific load will require a certain amount of electrical power to produce the torque to lift an anchor or spin a car engine. Incoming power is Voltage times Current. If V is reduced, to make up the difference the windings will not spin the rotor until more current can meet the torque challenge.
Hi Jeff.
Great channel.
Question :- I have a victron inverter charger. When hooked up, on ac side. Will the charger try to charge the batteries when the inverter is supplying the ac power. Ie an in house loop.
Thanks.
Hi Ian, good question, the AC input and the AC output are completely seperate on a inverter and should never be looped. In other words, the inverter AC output can never feed the inverter AC input.
Ok I’m a little confused. I have to big group D lead acid batteries for starting…one small lead acid for the generator and two Lithium Battelborns for house. ( built in BMS) I’ve hooked them all to the battery isolator and charge from the alternator when under way. I thought the BMS took care of the charge status and “need” of the Lithium. Do I need to rewire with a DC to DC for them?
The isolator I have is the same as the one to your right.
BTW….thank you for taking your time to do this Tech Talks. What a great resource!
Well sounds like you have a stock alternator with internally regulator (e.g. target voltage of 14.4), in this case all your batteries are receiving similar charging voltages.
Hi Jeff, this seems to be a high concern/discussion judging also by the questions at your live on Sunday which was great. Looking at Balmar 614, you can monitor batteries temp. How would this work if you have 2 or more atteries in a bank ? Cheers JC
Yep the Balmar MC-614 does do temp compensation, and even has input for two battery banks. The MC-614 can only monitor one battery per bank.
Thanks, I guess that means that your bank should behave equal. Thanks a lot.
So if you add an external regulator you'll then have 2 regulators in-line? Is this okay?
I prefer the NASA Clipper series of battery monitors. Big LCD display, backlit on demand, very accurate amp hour consumption data.
Along the lines of Rockabuy2002's question. Do you need to disconnect the internal regulator when adding an external regulator? thks
Yep, you'll need to have a alternator shop remove the internal regulator and give you a field post to interconnect the external regulator.
I know him. He is in the same sailing club in the Chesapeake.
Hi Jeff. Is there a singe battery monitor that can monitor multiple banks (main starting, gen starting, house, etc)?
Or would I need to install one monitor unit for each bank?
Thanks
You need dedicated battery monitors per each battery bank.
@@PacificYachtSystems thank you, seems odd that no one makes a multi input battery monitor.
What is your opinion on Bluetooth battery monitors that can display this information in a tablet or smartphone app?
Jeff, how does this discussion apply to Firefly batteries?
Yep, you can charge your Firefly batteries faster with a higher output alternator.
You mentioned that the internal regulator is overly cautious controlling output to prevent boiling the batteries. Would that also regulate the output to a lithium battery therefore helping prevent the lithium battery from burning out the alternator? BTW I have an outboard motor.
Hi Charlie, an internal regulator on a alternator won't help to protect an Lithium battery from overcharging.
@@PacificYachtSystems thanks for your response but I think the BMS will prevent overcharging, I'm more concerned about what I've heard about the low resistance of lithium batteries drawing too much power and overheating the alternator. If the internal regulator would limit that I may not have a problem. The manufacturer says they have never had a problem but everyone else says not to hook up a lithium battery directly to the alternator. Luckily I have more than one battery connected through an isolator so if the BMS does disconnect from the alternator it would still have a place for the power to go and not destroy the alternator like switching it off would do. Thanks again, I know I've been asking about this on various forums. With boating season just around the corner here in Colorado I'll be giving it a try and luckily the lithium battery i have has a bluetooth monitor inside so I'll be able to tell if something is out of normal range before I cause any damage. Thanks again for helping all of us electrical geeks, sharing your knowledge is really helpful for us!
With all else being equal, an internal regulator will certainly do a better job at protecting the alternator from heat than an external regulator since it will reduce the charging voltage as the alternator gets hotter, reducing the load on the alternator to prevent it from overheating. An external regulator won't sense the alternator's internal temperature. But if the alternator is under so much load that it's maxed out and can't reach the regulator's setpoint, the regulator doesn't really matter. Maybe try asking the company that made the alternator which if any precautions need to be taken to protect it in your application? Not sure how helpful they would be but it's worth a try.
How possible is it to do this with an outboard ?
Technically should be doable but never seen it done before.
It's a pretty common misconception that Li-ion accept unbridled charge. They get damaged with aggressive charge rates with direct relation to temperature. If the electrons are travelling faster than the lithium ions then you get lithium plating at the anode and irreparable cell harm. A lottov "drop-in replacements" have a charger disconnect at 0°C as a candle in the wind safety measure. This is not good enough it ought to be proportional charge rate control in direct relation to cell temperature as the level of harm correlates to the charge rate and delta temperature below 20°C.
In Ireland batteries are never 20°C, usually 10°C. I can get faster charge rates outtov lead considering this.
A cheaper solution to external regulators is sense an underwired split charging battery from the alternator D+ to fool it into energising more of the field windings. That's all external regulators are generally doing.
Other simple obvious solutions are larger & shorter B+ and ground cables. I often run 50mm² cable for 150A alternators. It works.
Thanks S. Scruff for sharing and explaining, really enjoyed reading your post.
If you add an external alternator, how do you disconnect internal alternator? Or do you need a new alternator that accepts external regulator?
Also curious about this- have you run into many issues converting old internally regulated to be externally regulated?
I installed a Balmar external regulator to my Valeo 120A alternator and it came with dummy regulator conversion kit to replace the alternator's internal regulator. Followed the Installation instructions that came with the dummy regulator and it was a very simple process.
@@davidmacbeth5575 right on thanks for sharing your experience!
We commonly bring alternators to a good alternator shop and get them to change the wiring on the alternator for a nominally fee.
@@PacificYachtSystems very interesting! Didn't really know that was a common service. Thanks for the reply. This was a timely video as I just upgraded my boat's system to lithium with a Balmar alternator and mc614.
Cheers from Anacortes.
I’m going to show my alternator ignorance here but given that the belt to the alternator doesn’t slow down, how does the alternator reduce the charge?
Great question, the regulator (either internal or external) makes a decision on much field voltage to apply, this in turns decides what the voltage output of the alternator will be.
We have to get Jeff a better financial advisor :-)
LOL, indeed.
IMHO - IFA's know very very very little about current finance. Sorry if you are one but.....! I'm with Jeff's POV
1a1
cigarette plug mppt,
Altinator is stronger before 2006. If change ore have to get a New one. Ask for the stronger one before 2006 modells. Them all knows about it.
After 2006 have weeker charge. Not give more then 13volt some shitt. Before 2006 u get them to charge 14.4 from idle to regulator slows it down.
Ofcourse u have altinators whit high teck regulators. But expensive.
Some People overhaling old and make them New for No cost at all. Just a tips.